CARTA: Female and Male Genital Modification

This talk offers an overview of the many forms of permanent genital modifications embedded in human cultures, where they occur, the reasons why, the archaeological investigations of origins, and future trends. Included are female clitoridectomy, excision, infibulation, and other practices that affect about five percent of females worldwide; and the male practices that affect one-third of males: circumcision, superincision, and subincision. Why have so many cultures invented and preserved these modifications as part of their valued heritage? Controversies abound: the current human rights opposition to all female practices is met with backlash, and others question the “justifications” for continuing male circumcision. [3/2024] [Show ID: 39471]
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[@paul6925]

It kinda seems like you are glossing over the horror of some of these practices…

[@cherylmillard2067]

It's an Anthropologist's scientific overview, all personal agendas, opinions, the use of highly emotional words and descriptions to evoke feelings from the reader or listener is not considered academic and would fail the peer review process. If you would watch it again knowing the things I've mentioned, it might be seen differently.

[@FilmBuffBros]

*Mutilation

[@saschamayer4050]

The euphemisms are almost as horrific as the practice itself. Humans can be real monsters.

[@fritnat]

Let me guess, you use the term _circumcision_ rather than _ritual penectomy?_

[@shepberryhill4912]

@@fritnat Yes, we use the correct terms for those practices, unlike you. Penectomy is incorrect when referring to circumcision.

[@fritnat]

@@shepberryhill4912 YT censorship hinders this discussion but I will try. You do not consider what is removed as being a part/s of the pen..?

[@laurawestenra]

While I appreciate informing the public about this...there is no comparison between male circumcision and the monstrous custom of female genital mutilation, the cruel torture and dehumanization of young girls. "Modification" does not tell the whole story. I don't think we need to respect a "cultural practice" that causes so much suffering, body and soul, to women and girls. Cruelty and bodily oppression are not acceptable in any circumstance.

[@leavethemkidsalone860]

Agreed. This practice causes a child to be unable to urinate properly and have lifelong complications. It relates to similar practices being celebrated by certain ideologue groups in the US. I wonder if that is also on the WHO'S list to be stopped by 2030 as well.

[@myparceltape1169]

Simply having it done to a girl in a British city has left many afraid of the people she has to live with, her mother, and father. Afraid to do anything and regressing at school.

[@paul6925]

It bothered me that she made it sound like the parents were doing it out of love. As though everything parents do to their kids is for altruistic reasons

[@leavethemkidsalone860]

@@paul6925 it bothers me that by changing the terminology they are granting a pass. I am suspicious of the 2030 claim. I have a feeling that they will again change the terminology to absolve all mutilation as medically necessary.

[@fritnat]

It bothers me when Westerners claim their penectomy cutting practice is not to be compared to non Western gender inclusive cutting practices on girls and women. This tactic really originated with Fran Hosken and her 1979 report to the UN. Fran Hosken was a radical feminist who with her American/Austrian Jewish cultural background almost certainly had her two sons cut and wasn't going to have what she did judged in the same way she condemned what Black Africans did! The fact is that Western cutting practice undermines the fight against non Western gender inclusive practices when it comes to girls and women. Indeed these cultures have been inspired by Western excuses of proclaimed health benefits and medicalisation.

[@Reticulating-Splines]

Great lil lecture, esp the part on how many times this has evolved independently in humans and its estimates on the age of practices. I wish I could remember where, but I read an essay by another anthropologist who wanted to find out why FGC/M was mainly practiced, performed, and exalted solely by the women of a community upon their daughters, when they knew full well all the risks and global perception/laws against it. So she went through the full cutting ceremony herself. I cant remember exactly her experience, but overall it was extremely positive. She felt nurtured and part of a community, very much in solidarity with the other women then and thereafter, so much so that any pain seemed to be worth it. From what I remember she kept it and did not get it reversed. Both instances of modification are motivated by social systems. We've seen before in history that outright banning and demeaning the practices of these systems only makes the people in them more dedicated to it and less interested in opinions people outside of it, and if they do decide to leave, gives them even less options than if they had never left. Most of the people in the comments seem to think they're being helpful, but it's the misplaced white-knighting of an outside culture with particular opinions about what women and girls should do with their bodies, without considering the actual lived experience of said women and girls *in their own culture* . That's not to say that GC/M isn't wrong, particularly on children and people not fully informed about the risks and outcomes. But allowing it to be performed by medical professionals or in hospitals initially to reduce complications and infections, then eventually legalizing and keeping records it to enforce age restrictions and education/therapy would be *way* faster AND more effective than just banning it and saying any mother that gets it done on her child should be punished, any man with a wife that has it should be shamed, and any woman/girl that wanted to get it done is uninformed/stupid. Cultures can adapt and change, they've done so countless times before, but when it's forced under duress it's never for the better. Very similar to how banning abortion and trans rights and mandating what those social groups do with their bodies, while demeaning their experience as ignorant or malicious, has only put them more at risk for social isolation, mental illness, and medical complications/injury/death.

[@jeepz669]

eww

[@sparxy1968]

I found this fascinating. I showed this to n ardent feminist and she became quite enraged by the term "modification". It became apparent to me that many women have been sold the lie that female circumcision is many many times more barbaric than male circumcision when from what I can see here the suggestion is that in the main women go on to have a normal life. If this is true then I fail to see the huge distinction between make and female culturally support modifications. They are both terrible attacks upon someone's human right to have no harm done by those who care for us. I find it deeply offensive that FGM is so ardently opposed and often described as symptom of rampant misogyny when the WHO actively support the same act to young boys on the dubious grounds it has a health benefit. You can't catch HIV as a child, there are multiple ways to be protected. Heterosexual men must not be circumcised en-mass on the very slim chance it might slow down the spread of HIV. No more so than young women should be "protected" from injury but being banned from contact sports. I have never heard such an insane logic for justifying Male Genital Mutilation!!!! If it is a violation of human rights to be modified for a cultural reason then it is EXACTLY the same for a SOCIAL reason.

[@oregonvibez]

Disturbing AF. I respect all cultures - but this is cruel and serves no need but to harm individuals who have no choice.

[@rsbkug3981]

Horrible torture

[@twerktospec]

No, sounds HOT

[@saschamayer4050]

The horror.

[@joeym1635]

Nope, less pleasure.

[@leavethemkidsalone860]

With the female mutilation, there is none.

[@fritnat]

@@leavethemkidsalone860 Why would you think the least superficial injury to the female parts results in an inability to feel any pleasure?? Siunce you believe this why would you not think the same applied to males when they are put through a ritual penectomy? This totally ridiculous myth stigmatises a lot of girls and women, why would you want that?

[@DRDRE-ex6yg]

People in this world are absolutely NUTS!!! All of these ridiculous rituals, and idiotic beliefs, the world has gone nuts! HOW can you mutilate your child, and then use religion to justify your ignorance!?!? The world is drowned in darkness, and everyday I have to pray I'll be okay!

[@twerktospec]

A LOT of hypocrisy in this comment lol

[@veselgana]

@@twerktospec Why?

[@saschamayer4050]

​@@veselgana Don't talk to him, he's one of them and a troll.

[@shepberryhill4912]

@@saschamayer4050 One of who? He's right. The comment stridently wails about people being nuts, with idiotic beliefs and ignorance, and then says every day they have to pray. Hypocrisy indeed.

[@whitb6111]

Only an anthropologist would have a smile while joyfully giving a lecture on genital mutilation in kids. Many adhere to the painfully dumb worldview of extreme moral relativism.

[@fritnat]

Seriously have you never seen Americans of all kinds doing that when talking about their particular kind of GM, neonatal penectomy?

[@shepberryhill4912]

It's a scientific review, and your projection of 'joyful' is disgusting. Grow up.

[@myparceltape1169]

It sounds a terrible way to treat children. Often at an age where they know what is being done to their bodies. Servicemen during WW2 in the Sahara faced fine blown sand and little water to wash in. Circumcision was widely adopted to prevent pain. But that's adults.

[@fritnat]

That's an urban legend, the prepuce would protect against _fine blown sand._ The hygiene myth is merely a transposition of the historical spiritual purity notion, the same one that put Pakistani Asia Bibi in prison for years before she was able to flee her country. It's all a means to enforce the social cutting norm, to keep outsiders and "traitors" out of the community, literally ethnic cleansing, having nothing to do with hygiene.

[@veselgana]

Modification is nicer word for something horrible, mutilation is more like it. Trivialising these barbaric traditions will not help anyone. Why are you doing this?

[@fritnat]

Actually its also wrong as many of these practices when it comes to females do not modify the anatomy but are superificial injuries that got a very brief mention as WHO type IV FGM. Do you also consider these to be mut........? What about bre.. enhancement surgeries or piercings, do you consider them to be too?

[@veselgana]

@@fritnat Any change to your body that leaves residual marks and that happens to your body without your explicit consent is mutilation. I don't care whether or not the person inflicting it on you wants to hurt you, as the lady in the video rationalized why it is a modification and not a mutilation. It's like we have no idea what good or evil is. Complete capitulation of all values to the offended politically correct. Edit: Are you seriously censoring yourself?!

[@fritnat]

@@veselgana Ok so a pin prick is not, which word would you prefer in this case? I don't consider Ellen Gruenbaum was denying there is talk of mut....... but that she prefered to use a different term. Interestingly historically the word mut....... was used also by those practicing it. This changed post WWII when its horrors lead to a paradigm shift in values giving rise to the declaration of universal human rights. The condoning of the ritual penectomy of hapless boys, not least neonates, is the only basic human rights violation condoned by every single country in the world and marks the bar for human progress. In this case that can be no doubt whatsoever that it is mut....... and should be termed as such. In cases of females it has been a matter of dispute in Western legal circles however the Australian High Court has ruled any injury no matter how minor is mut........ Yes, YT practice when it comes to activists like me fighting for bodily autonomy, makes it necessary to self censor. YT, FB and X are all US SoMe companies who defend US cutting culture by steeply tilting the playing field in the public debate. Despite self censor most of my comments are censored one way or the other.

[@JimmiAlli]

Is gender reassignment an example of cutting or genital modification?

[@lunaxquinn]

it's not genital mutilation if that's what you're trying to take a dig at....

[@sparxy1968]

Yes it is. The reasons for the modification is not necessarily important to describe the changes being made. It is just one form of modification the our current western culture appears to support.

[@USA50_]

Thanks for the lecture ❤🇺🇸💪😊🗽🦅⭐

[@FightforTTIG]

Cutting genitals? Rituals? That's demonic!

[@serinodiaz4140]

Today with men living longer implants are a good money making business for doctors plus infections and surgery for supposedly a better being or just maybe vice.😊

[@shepberryhill4912]

Implants don't work well. They are a sorry substitute.

[@fritnat]

Why is the term penectomy not used when the term clitoridectomy is? Why is it only on males that the practice is considered to strengthen group identity, solidarity and trust when this is no less true for females? Despite trying to present a moderate and neutral stance the Western ethnocentricity shines through!

[@Lessinath]

They do not use the term penectomy because penectomy is not the correct term. That would be removal of most or all of the penis. Circumcision is the correct term for the common western practice. I have seen you get this wrong repeatedly in the comments here, and it is why most people are simply ignoring you.

[@fritnat]

@@Lessinath What is the source for your claim that _most_ must be removed in a penectomy? The proportional loss is far greater in a ritual penectomy (what you term circumcision)than a ritual cliteridectomy, so why does your condition of _most_ not apply here? There are many other examples of -ectomies where only a small proportion of a bodypart is usually removed. Circumcision as a surgical term simply means to make a circumferential incision a procedure not limited to a particular part of the body eg a nip... can be circumcised. In terms of the ritual it is not limited to the amputation of the prepuce or even to males. When commentators get things wrong it results in many others pointing it out to them, not ignoring them! My comments generally do not attract a lot of response because they get shadowbanned so are not seen by most people. They are shadowbanned because YT supports US cutting culture and tips the playing field in its favour.

[@fritnat]

My response to Lessinath has been shadowbanned by YT as part of the tilting of the playing field in support of US cutting values. Anyone willing to make the effort can read it by choosing newest first under sorting and going through the dozens of comments to find the OP. You will be rewarded by seeing what YT doesn't want you to know!

[@Lessinath]

@@fritnat Words have definitions and meaning, and you're just simply wrong. Sorry. If you don't like it, cry about it. And I say that as someone who opposes circumcision or any other genital mutilation.

[@fritnat]

@@Lessinath OK so you have no source for your claim of what defines the word. If you look up the definition in the National Cancer Institute, an official US government site, you will find that it states _surgery to remove part or all of the pen.._ Nothing about how much, simply a _part_ of, so it is you who are wrong irrespective of crying about it or whether or not you oppose the ritual.

[@tnekkc]

I resent the calm tone.

[@shepberryhill4912]

That's your problem. It's a scientific review. Your inappropriate emotions show immaturity.

[@josephanaya23]

So no one in the comments saw the video cause the comments is just making up things

[@leavethemkidsalone860]

Untrue. How else would we be commenting on things the woman said or referenced during the video. I'm thinking you didn't watch it and hope to defend the practice.

[@fjvie]

💵 🍀 💵🤷🏻‍♀️💵🌳💵😎

[@fjvie]

Time for legalising everything's