Sick of After Effects? Switch to Fusion in 2025 for VFX and Motion Graphics!

  Рет қаралды 22,664

Casey Faris

Casey Faris

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 122
@JaylonTheory
@JaylonTheory Ай бұрын
It took me about 2 and a half years to get to a point where my skills in Davinci can match my skills in After Effects. The biggest game changers in fusion for me was learning how to create multiple scenes in one fusion composition by merging background nodes, how to combine multiple transform and transform 3D effects to create constant movement like Premiere Pro and After Effects, and how to use Modes, Modifiers, Anim Curves, and Instances. I think that just about covered every basis for me. There definitely aren't as many good tutorials for Davinci, and some features definitely are more complex to work, and slower to run and less optimized (I'm talking about 3D scenes). But if you consume every possible tutorial out there, Copy After Effects tutorials using Davinci tools, and learn the theory of how Nodes work together and merge, then you'll get there. You won't get 'After Effects with maxed out plugins and tools' good, but you'll get as good as somebody who can use vanilla after effects really good, good.
@JantriPinem
@JantriPinem 27 күн бұрын
so in the end, which one would you choose the best? ae or fusion
@reyvaz2951
@reyvaz2951 Ай бұрын
50 more beginner classes and I think people will get the hang of it, lol! it's not that hard, you guys are making it look harder than it is, you could be our Andrew Kramer for Fusion, that would help this community a lot, it's time to take the training wheels off the bike. Thanks for your work.
@medicallyunexplainedsymptoms
@medicallyunexplainedsymptoms Ай бұрын
I agree with that. Far too many videos on Fusion start with how to wire nodes together and what the little arrows mean on the nodes before starting the actual content. I don't start my fifth microcontroller lecture with "What is a Microcontroller?" - that was in lecture one.
@skapeedits
@skapeedits Ай бұрын
Yes the only thing is beginner videos get a lot of views and indepth videos are a bit more risky in terms of many views they will get. That might be a reason why he is not doing them. Also i think Casey wants to have some of that advanced stuff locked behind advanced courses. Thats just my speculation. And I agree having more advanced tutorials from you Casey would be great, because you are really good at explaining! I liked that 3D smoke interactive lighting tutorial you made for resolve con for example. More stuff like that would be really nice. I am thankful for your channel tho and please take this as constructive feedback!
@reyvaz2951
@reyvaz2951 Ай бұрын
@skapeedits Thanks Casey, for what you done so far for us, his 4 hr master class got him over a million views, I understand that he has his own, buying classes and that's understandable, their is a few guys coming with some very good advance stuff.
@piochuajr
@piochuajr Ай бұрын
101% agree!
@rano12321
@rano12321 Ай бұрын
Agree, there are too many beginner tuts and not enough pro tuts, especially from bigger channels. that's the biggest complaint i see from people is the lack of advanced topics being covered.
@ifell3
@ifell3 Ай бұрын
Loving how you are getting more comfortable on your channel with expressing yourself
@BelladonnaNightshadeVampire
@BelladonnaNightshadeVampire Ай бұрын
Superb explanation. I have followed other fusion tutorials, and they just make fusion confusing because they aren't explaining the why. Casey, your explanation of the flow of fusion, starting with just the input and the output is exactly what I needed to understand. Bravo, well done.
@lenleyhunte
@lenleyhunte Ай бұрын
that jam at dynamic link ..its so on point lol
@fernsehdesign
@fernsehdesign 15 күн бұрын
yes, so true.
@trinderfilms1357
@trinderfilms1357 Ай бұрын
Very very very helpful for those of us trying to wean ourselves away from AFX (after 20 years using it). Would love to see how to combine 3D objects and 2D in the same Fusion Comps. I do wish that the spline, timeline and keyframes panels were more integrated though, so the curves and keyframes sat underneath the timeline somehow, but turn each of them off when required - Apple Motion actually does this quite well.
@pmonk1177
@pmonk1177 Ай бұрын
Actually, at the top right there are 2 tabs, Spline and Keyframe, if you click on one of them, it opens up in the Node area and there’s a timeline built in. You can open and close it anytime.
@trinderfilms1357
@trinderfilms1357 Ай бұрын
@@pmonk1177I suppose I want the timeline, key frame and splines all in one
@tomcattermole1844
@tomcattermole1844 Ай бұрын
I'm trying to make the switch and honestly the thing thats helped me the most: Going through every effect (node) one by one, wacking some sliders around and seeing what happens. Very pleasantly surprised about the amount of crossover there is so far.
@Flowerpot2905
@Flowerpot2905 Ай бұрын
100%. I've switched from Apple Motion... Haha. Same applies... Resolve feels a lot like Unreal Engine... And your channel is fantastic! Love you Casey. Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year!
@theManagementLab
@theManagementLab 8 күн бұрын
At the beginning of the video, I thought that this was going to be just another video comparing After Effects with Davinci Resolve, where, in the end, Davinci would be the winner. Midway through the video, I realised that Casey gave us so many tricks to work on Fusion, and I was thinking to myself: "Damn! This is a masterclass in Fusion, and I am so loving it". Thank you so much! 💌
@rossmpostpro
@rossmpostpro 12 күн бұрын
As someone who's come from AE and Flame, Fusion seems like the best of all worlds... I think. Thanks for your help Casey.
@mowfpv1221
@mowfpv1221 19 күн бұрын
Incredible Video ❤ I work a lot with Fusion and I love the way how easy you describe everything 🔥
@CaseyFaris
@CaseyFaris 19 күн бұрын
😊
@tripplejaz
@tripplejaz Ай бұрын
There are so many small, frustrating UX choices and bugs in Fusion I hope they fix. For example, unify keyframe symbols by making them diamonds just like they are in After Effects and their own Edit Page. Please MAKE COPY AND PASTE KEYFRAMES WORK! (A work around solution to duplicate a set of keyframes is holding control and dragging them). Clicking on a frame in the sub menus for the spline or the keyframe panel should take you to that frame, NOT resize the UI. Fusion comps should not display a black frame if there is no information, it should just be transparent. Other than that, Fusion is awesome and I now understand it better than I ever did After Effects. I wish the active modding community could fix some of this stuff but it's probably root level changes required that injecting code can't fix.
@skapeedits
@skapeedits 28 күн бұрын
could you please make a feature request on the bmd forum, these are really good ideas and this way they will see them!
@MagnetiqLabs
@MagnetiqLabs Ай бұрын
you are the really good teacher! So easy to learn with you!
@imiy
@imiy Ай бұрын
One problem of Fusion is that combining 2D and 3D, and particles, and shapes isn't easy. For example, you can't apply the Glow node to a Shape node or a 3D plane (and you can't make your object 3D with a switch like in Ae, you have to feed it into 3D plane😬). Only to sRender or render3D which is cumbersome. Imagine you need to have several 2D images flying around a central 2D images in 3D space and have glow for example. Imagine you need them each having different glows or some other effects. Imagine the central image must have no glow. That's a heck of a job in Fusion, but in Ae it takes a few clicks... Why can't Fusion apply what it does when you add a render node, but behind the curtains? So when you have a 3d or a shape node and add some regular 2d effect node after (like Glow) it would automatically assume you have added that appropriate render node without you adding it? I mean, from the programming point of view, After Effects essentially does it like that? - they have Continuously Rasterize switch to solve some issues you may have in the process. And in Fusion, they do it with Text+ node, which is vector by nature just like Shape Nodes. But you can apply 2D effects to it without any additional stupid render nodes... Another problem is performance. It's even worse than in Ae. Also, 3S cameras in Fusion are physics based, meaning you can't make aperture ridiculously big. Which limits you in some motion graphics techniques. Things you can do in Ae you can't do in Fusion. I could elaborate on this if someone is interested. Fusion is better for compositing and VFX, i guess. As much as i would like to like Fusion, After Effects is still better for mograph.
@imiy
@imiy Ай бұрын
Nodes are awesome, 2 viewers are awesome. I've seen very complex mograph done in Fusion, and easier than in Ae. But it lacks some other things. Like those Ae plugins to move anchor point and change easing with 1 click. Or Overlord for automatic import of vector illustrations - oh god Fusion lacks a thing like that. Importing SVGs in Fusion is hell.
@skapeedits
@skapeedits 28 күн бұрын
I agree with the request/problem to make the systems easier to work with. But a better alternative than your idea would be to make it so fusion adds the nodes that tranfer the image from one system to another automatically, but not hidden. So when you connect a 2d image to a merge3d for example it will add an imageplane for you. Or when you connect a text3d to a merge2d it will add a renderer3d in between. I think this would be easier to code for them and keep the functionality of the program more intact. For example you need renderer nodes in order to define the output settings/channels. Where would you do that when there is no renderer? Unfortunately nodes have to work with this way i think to make sense i think. But my idea would make them atleast faster. Blackmagic if you are listening please implement this!
@skapeedits
@skapeedits 28 күн бұрын
And performance I agree. Another idea would be to implement a cache node, so you can atleast prerender a part of your scene fast and easily. (The existing saver loader workflow is not efficient and cache to disk isnt reliable either). Then you could have faster performance this way @blackmagic
@kuunami
@kuunami Ай бұрын
I'm constantly searching for Fusion motion graphics tutorials. My goal is to be able to match anything motion graphics related that I used to do in After Effects. For example, using the puppet tool in After Effects to manipulate the movement of objects. Or how to do post processing effects to a 3D render from Blender or Cinema 4d. For example like adding glints to reflections or adding lens flares that react to the 3D camera of a render from a 3D application. I don't know how to achieve similar effects in Fusion. But I'm finally at the point that I have a solid understanding of how the node based system works.
@Aarius247
@Aarius247 Ай бұрын
This was great. Thank you for such a valuable overview of Fusion.
@johnny26910
@johnny26910 Ай бұрын
Our stories are so similar Casey, haha. You rock!
@bobbymishra9230
@bobbymishra9230 Ай бұрын
Just in time...I was little confused what to use , as I just thinking of entering into motion graphic thanks a lot.
@ylluminate
@ylluminate 11 күн бұрын
What tool are you using for doing whiteboard / markup editing whilst interacting with the screen? The flow is great.
@motionblurgamer
@motionblurgamer Ай бұрын
I also started with After Effects. I never did much there, but I always found pre-comping really annoying. Learning nodes seemed complicated at first, but now I don't see myself working in any other way. I really wish the spline tool automatically zoomed to fit when you open it, though. If you really like layer-based compositing, they did add a multi-merge node recently, but I haven't used it. I feel like it is mostly made for people transitioning from After Effects and other layer based compositors, rather than people whom are used to nodes.
@skarlok1
@skarlok1 20 күн бұрын
Hey, I am just ordering Studio version. So far i do like Davinci a loot since it can do multitasks like audio editing. Also i do want to give up Adobe subscription. Still a noob and i am wondering if you have some scripting/expression tutorials. Can i create a spline/polygon with custom shapes repeated along it and animated inside Fusion?
@landonp629
@landonp629 Ай бұрын
Does fusion have an easy to use 'match to background' type effect like Supercomp in AE does? I dislike fiddling with color profiles trying to get a match, and Supercomp nails the match 98% of the time. I know the color page has a color match feature, but that is made more to 'shot match' rather than blend layers together.
@Vision-IT_1
@Vision-IT_1 Ай бұрын
thx - very interesting! - - 22:38 (signalflow through nodes) - - 29:06 (rename transform node) it would be helpful - if the different nodes would have some kind of individual color sign or shape to identify after renaming - - 33:37 (fusion composition) is there a way to see the clips below the fc ? - - 35:07 (text drops out of nothing) cool, thx
@LetsTalkAboutReaper
@LetsTalkAboutReaper 24 күн бұрын
Totally unrelated comment, but... A while back, you made some different movie titles in fusion. Curious if you could do one to show something like the intro to Rings of Power. I'm interested in how to create more intricate things with the particle system 🤔
@JasonStorey
@JasonStorey Ай бұрын
My current n1 problem is the polymorphic nature of the media in. sometimes I can use timeline indexes, other times I cant etc. I wanted to make a fusion clip that would take the two layers below it and make a picture in picture for the duration of the clip. I figured it out eventually but I am clearly doing it in a roundabout way. I'm open to being all in on fusion but atm the real problem is how much of it is mode based and cant be reasonably intuited. I'm just going to have to sit and read the mile long tutorial at some stage and that feels daunting and not a lot of fun.
@tdyrc
@tdyrc Ай бұрын
We need some Functions become SIMPLER. There are plenty of examples, where in AE youve got 1 effect, And in DVR you have to go Around to make the same thing.
@Sidissaido
@Sidissaido Ай бұрын
Powerbins??
@dennstinedits
@dennstinedits Ай бұрын
Yes but once you make it you can just save it
@skapeedits
@skapeedits Ай бұрын
yes but a big reason to that is because ae has many scripts and plugins that make your life easier. If we could get some more scripts and workflow plugins I think fusion would become a lot better.
@Sidissaido
@Sidissaido Ай бұрын
@skapeedits well for that we need more people to know about this
@skapeedits
@skapeedits Ай бұрын
@@Sidissaido true I agree
@retroworld415
@retroworld415 Ай бұрын
I definitely learned a lot from you that helped me made the move
@haroldmorganTulsa
@haroldmorganTulsa Ай бұрын
Request: We see templates for After Effects and wonder how to do the same thing in Fusion. Could you create a series showing how to translate the most common After Effects techniques to Fusion?
@denhood
@denhood Ай бұрын
find on youtube about how to create macro on fusion
@mikesbruv
@mikesbruv Ай бұрын
How have you found using the Fusion page on the M4 ipad pro, this is a huge aspect that I am very interested in.
@TTinari
@TTinari 21 күн бұрын
You mentioned the start of "Resolve Share" around 6:26, but I'm not seeing any link for it or info in the description. How do we access and contribute to it?
@CaseyFaris
@CaseyFaris 21 күн бұрын
www.resolveshare.com
@gavjudge
@gavjudge 24 күн бұрын
Hi, great video ! My question is I love the idea of learning and using resolve and fusion especially as it’s free. But the job market especially here in the uk doesn’t seem to acknowledge resolve’s existence. Is it worth learning resolves or keeping with Adobe?
@César.Tejada
@César.Tejada Ай бұрын
Hi Casey! What software do you use to draw on top of Davinci? I also make tutorials and I would like to know what tool you recommend :)
@akyhne
@akyhne 27 күн бұрын
Maybe Epic Pen or gInk?
@César.Tejada
@César.Tejada 27 күн бұрын
@akyhne Thanks! I'll check them out.
@chosenonemedia8337
@chosenonemedia8337 Ай бұрын
Thanks Dude, very helpful!!!
@Luijeee
@Luijeee Ай бұрын
Need more examples focusing on motion graphics & simple quick animations. Nobody doubts fusion for vfx & compositing, that battle is already won.
@3polygons
@3polygons Ай бұрын
Really GOOD tutorial.
@arnaldosanchez-vzla
@arnaldosanchez-vzla 29 күн бұрын
Greetings brother, How about the comparison between an Intel Arc B580 vs Rtx 3060 12 gb, to work with 4k video editing without proxies with H.265 and H.264 files in Davinci and Premiere? Is it necessary to have an Intel processor with IGPU to decode and encode the files I mentioned?
@sterd0
@sterd0 Ай бұрын
Огромное спасибо, смотрю вас из России, уже как год. Очень понятно изложили тему с компоузингом. Еще раз, огромное спасибо за ваш труд и полезный контент.
@rogersimonsz3216
@rogersimonsz3216 Ай бұрын
The difference really is that after effects is like a moving photoshop and fusion is more like a vision mixer
@SeshanDecodes
@SeshanDecodes Ай бұрын
I hated doing graphics in After Effects. Adobe just puts me off. Just the vibe puts me off. I am so glad I move to Davinci Resolve best decision for me. Just love this Software and everything about it. I actually enjoy editing in Davinci Resolve because everything is easily accessible. Sort of similar to Avid.
@vancedyoutube2895
@vancedyoutube2895 Ай бұрын
Good to go
@cliffspencer
@cliffspencer Ай бұрын
Hi, Casey. I enjoy your videos very much and have a question about this one. You spoke about fusion replacing motion graphics but it doesn't seem that most of what you show in the video is actually motion graphics (I admit I may have a limited definition). I was hoping you would give some examples of manipulating type and graphic objects by distorting, rotating, translating, etc. is this possible in Fusion?
@MahanParag
@MahanParag Ай бұрын
Watch his MGFX video that will help
@candraslinger1955
@candraslinger1955 Ай бұрын
What about Illustrator? I make alot of animations, from Illustrator then into after effects. Can DR replace this? Ive uaed DR for years before uni but am being forced to use Adobe because of this.
@rano12321
@rano12321 Ай бұрын
You can import SVG, PSD files in Fusion. You can also replace Illustrator with Affinity Design or Inkscape. There was also a plugin that lets you import AI files in Fusion.
@candraslinger1955
@candraslinger1955 Ай бұрын
@rano12321 thank you
@Chess4lyfe
@Chess4lyfe Ай бұрын
As always Casey, your way of training is incredibly good. BUT…here’s my ONGOING issue with Fusion: I get the workflow, I get the concept of nodes etc. my biggest issue is I know what I want to build but I find it extremely difficult to figure out what nodes to use to build it. The names of the nodes is like trying to learn another language!!! Very frustrating.
@juliangallegos2204
@juliangallegos2204 29 күн бұрын
I just learned both. The more I know the more valuable I become as a creator. Just another tool in my toolbox.
@artgarfunkelsgingerfro2886
@artgarfunkelsgingerfro2886 Ай бұрын
Compositing yes... I still use AE for lots of things that just seem easier for certain things. Animations mostly. I also get handed some projects that are in Premiere.... that force me to keep it. Also still use Photoshop daily.
@odinata
@odinata Ай бұрын
Your first AE job was being Andrew from Video Copilot. Jk you do look just like him though. Love your show
@rsp1048
@rsp1048 20 күн бұрын
Hello brother, plz remake Urban X Dhaka. I need this tutorial.
@yoily_weinberger
@yoily_weinberger Ай бұрын
My main concern with fusion is that the 3D materials and textures aren't nearly as realistic as after effects, even with plugins.
@HobysVid
@HobysVid 19 күн бұрын
That's not true. You have different shading models, reflect node, and the possibility to post process the heck out of your 3D render with AO, Normals, WPP, UVs, vectors, lights, z depth etc... The 3D compositing capabilities in fusion are really big. I doubt, that AE has all these functions. Look for pirates of confusion, and see what's possible with Fusion
@yoily_weinberger
@yoily_weinberger 19 күн бұрын
@HobysVid then why do all the textures look dull on every video I've seen so far on KZbin? Where can I find something that looks realistic?
@HobysVid
@HobysVid 19 күн бұрын
@@yoily_weinberger what are you looking for exactly? Texturing or shading 3D models, or 2D graphics?
@yoily_weinberger
@yoily_weinberger 19 күн бұрын
@HobysVid 3D and 2D
@HobysVid
@HobysVid 19 күн бұрын
@@yoily_weinberger check out Maxim seredekin. He shows, what is possible with fusions particle system and other 3D stuff. Pirates of confusion is another fusion master showing some awesome techniques here. Millolabs has also some great tutorials, skullbrew has a cool video about a flamethrower or cg compositing. there are many more, but these artists are woth to follow
@gamedesign1
@gamedesign1 23 күн бұрын
I love the power of Resolve/Fusion, but I hate its very rigid UI. Give Resolve/Fusion a Blender style UI where you can customise the window layout and it would be perfect 👍😊
@FritsJanSmit
@FritsJanSmit Ай бұрын
Thank you so much! For me, Fusion is still a challenge, even for the simplest solutions. After years of trying to adapt, it's been quite the journey. Yes, I’ve followed the same career path: Final Cut Pro. It was a game-changer at first, but when Final Cut tried to revolutionize the industry, the industry moved on. A missed opportunity for Apple? Adobe filled the gap beautifully, though stability was always an issue, except with After Effects, which felt like a completely different company was behind it. Then came Davinci Resolve a true all-in-one solution. Editing, color grading, Fairlight for audio... it's been fantastic. Fairlight needs a a lot more refinement, but the potential is huge. And Fusion? Maybe it’s just my mindset, but I’m still struggling to fully embrace it. Hopefully, with time, it’ll click.
@pmonk1177
@pmonk1177 Ай бұрын
Once you get your head wrapped around the Nodes methodology, you’ll realize how powerful it is.
@micha0001
@micha0001 Ай бұрын
Still using... Sony Vegas 13... maybe I should change? LOL
@jettvision933
@jettvision933 29 күн бұрын
Me and you got the same gums lol
@CaseyFaris
@CaseyFaris 19 күн бұрын
...
@patlecat
@patlecat Ай бұрын
I remember how Fusion looked so advanced in the 90s.
@theKingsAmbassadors
@theKingsAmbassadors Ай бұрын
Dynamic Link, thats actually works....😂
@reshmachandran8073
@reshmachandran8073 Ай бұрын
I am glad for hating premier pro from the beginning!
@krawaadam1959
@krawaadam1959 28 күн бұрын
you look like smiley from the tv show "from"
@AerialEmber
@AerialEmber Ай бұрын
So would you say Resolve .... resolved your editing problems? I crack myself up.
@robbhawks2568
@robbhawks2568 Ай бұрын
Heee Heeee. You were locked in "Adobe think". Which I hate! I used fusion back in the late 90's when it was a stand alone.
@champovilla
@champovilla Ай бұрын
Sorry but fusion needs a powerful text engine as Ae has and kind of dynamic shape layer. And when your are in creating process mode after stills the most reliable software. I use fusion for restore and some Fx but never for creating animations…
@Uveal1950
@Uveal1950 24 күн бұрын
davinci was awful for me. if you don’t have the paid version it seems like nothing works. The point tracker for tracking text doesn’t work. Node system is cool but sometimes it takes 3X the amount of time to do something and it look worse than something in after effects does.
@Belamarimages
@Belamarimages Ай бұрын
Love Fusion but it’s as twice as slow as AE. 😁
@KENNY2746
@KENNY2746 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the vid, check out Billy Ribka he makes you loooove Fusion, he just has a way of makinng it look easy
@rano12321
@rano12321 Ай бұрын
Layers are fine, but nodes can Devine.
@moeskie
@moeskie Ай бұрын
Fusion is great however it takes forever to render anything on my system. I have a beefy computer and it still doesn’t affect render times. For example, it does 1fps render time on clips that I want to add a distortion effect to the clip.
@moeskie
@moeskie Ай бұрын
Could someone link me a video or let me know what system specs I should be replacing or upgrading?
@deeperlayer
@deeperlayer Ай бұрын
what specs are we talking about? usually resolve is way faster for me than AE in rendering as it uses my nvidia GPU fully.
@idovidal
@idovidal Ай бұрын
You need Strong CPU and as much as RAM you need. and strong CPU - 4080 and above would be amazing
@born2huntGaming
@born2huntGaming 29 күн бұрын
Most trash things in resolve is gpu error.....
@manuelgilbert1119
@manuelgilbert1119 Ай бұрын
16:45 Putting things on top of other things? kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnfVlaSHj515fMUsi=2lFPdDnLaWAOdfOp
@piochuajr
@piochuajr Ай бұрын
I'm really sorry but how many of these same videos are we still going see in the future? 😭
@plastique45
@plastique45 Ай бұрын
Why would anyone be tired of the world's easiest and best compositing software?! Seriously, Fusion is awful with a garbage UI and convoluted workflow.
@jmalmsten
@jmalmsten Ай бұрын
Lots of the frustration is probably hate by association. AE is great. Photoshop is great. Adobe... Do not get us started on what we think of Adobe. But once we do get over that first hump. AE just looks more and more like the cumbersome needlessly complex alternative. I say this as an avid AE user since v6. No. Not Creative Cloud, nonot Creative Suite. I started messing around on plain old After Effects v6. I tried out Reailve v16 a few years ago. And I just got in touch with Adobe. I paid the last few months of CC and never opened an adobe creative app again. I paid the 300 bucks for the Resolve studio license and didn't look back. Of course, your mileage may vary, as they say, but for me. Everything just got simpler, more stable and cost effective. And I'm easily doing Fusion comps I have no real clue how I'd set up effectively in AE.
@craiggodard6419
@craiggodard6419 Ай бұрын
For best and most flexible try Nuke, also node based 😁 I guess best is a relative term to you though
@IBpostproduction-e4q
@IBpostproduction-e4q Ай бұрын
Nodes are better for complex compositing. Ask any pro VFX artist.
@majorediting8164
@majorediting8164 Ай бұрын
As always Casey, your way of training is incredibly good. BUT…here’s my ONGOING issue with Fusion: I get the workflow, I get the concept of nodes etc. my biggest issue is I know what I want to build but I find it extremely difficult to figure out what nodes to use to build it. The names of the nodes is like trying to learn another language!!! Very frustrating.
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