Gibson VS Fenders Roots - The Birth Of Tone

[@PeteLamont]

Great job not getting distracted or off topic until 9 minutes in! The side stories are always awesome too though!

[@CasinoGuitars]

We really really tried!

[@WoollyWizardBeardCo]

Thanks for the shoutout guys ! Appreciate you both and all the content !

[@chris_2714]

As much as their criticized for it, I like that Fender/Squier have numerous lines of guitars with something in every budget range from $200 to $2000 and up. The jump from Epiphone to Gibson is still a big gap in pricing. There's no "building up" to a high end Gibson.

[@notapplicable328]

Like a sg junior one of gibsons “cheapest” guitars is still $1400

[@presmasterflash7555]

There are a number of Gibson guitars for under 1000. I do agree with the gap statement. There is a big gap even when putting the epiphones into the equation but there is definitely some good guitars for sub 1k. I own a couple. Love them.

[@Mikey__R]

How about the Tributes?

[@presmasterflash7555]

@@Mikey__R definitely Gibson’s attempt to get a little more into the “affordable “ market

[@Mikey__R]

@@presmasterflash7555 I had a Tribute Studio around 2010 / 2011ish I think. It was a nice guitar, and I kind of regret trading for a MIA Jazz bass.

[@jasonbone7033]

I’m not even a guitarist, but as a lifelong drummer this book enlightens not only the beginnings, but American history that changed the world. A must read for every musician. I love this channel and watch daily. It feels like I have a couple of soul brothers just down the road from Charlotte. Take care and keep up the great work!

[@rstuartcpa]

Leo was an accountant who turned a radio hobby into a business. All his engineering starts with maximum utility. That’s what makes Fender great.

[@tragedician]

4:50 Fender and other guitar makers don't get enough credit for how well they've managed costs and made North American-made guitars available at affordable price points over the years. A USA Strat, a PRS S2, a Gibson Les Paul Tribute, or even a Kiesel Custom cost less today than Fender's and Gibson's early models cost in the 1950's when you adjust for inflation. The first Teles sold for $189 in the early 1950's. That's almost $2,000 today. A Strat was about $2,400 in current dollars when it debuted. A new Player Strat costs less than half that. Pretty incredible when you think about it.

[@kurtisr2339]

Seconded. All of this.

[@davidtomkins4242]

Economies of scale and cnc machinery. Original fenders were all “hand made master built” of sorts. Look at howmany guitars fender makes per day now.

[@sparxlabprojects9545]

The Birth of Loud is a terrific read. For anyone making their way through Peter Jackson’s Get Back, another is Kenneth Womack’s Solid State that takes readers through the same period of Beatles history. Fascinating to revisit such substantial musical history in context to their times and the personalities of the principals who played such substantial roles in shaping the music and instruments we’re all still so compelled to play.

[@EchoApexFirstEcho]

Great Book, I’m glad to hear people talking about it from your point of view.

[@davegrice3423]

Man I love these videos. It's like sitting with a couple of buddies, cracking nerd jokes and talking geetars. Cheers!

[@CasinoGuitars]

Thanks Dave!

[@JWhitneyInc]

Not sure if you've done a video on this before, but I always find it so curious as to how the majority of the guitars made over the last half decade are just reiterations of stuff that was brand new in the 50's. It's hard to improve on perfection, but it's also hard to believe that they got it so perfect back then. Lots of people tinker with different electronics and compound radius necks, etc. But for the most part people love and demand the classics. And I'm the same way.

[@brooksroman2918]

I feel like this is mainly because the rise of the electric guitar in the 50’s was pretty much the invention of a new instrument in itself. Both the guitar and amp companies made what they made and it sounded how it sounded, and it all solidified what the “electric guitar” is and subsequently how the music that was made using them sounded. It’s always been interesting to me how people talk about innovation regarding the electric guitar but violin and saxophones have been what they are for centuries. Now obviously lots of innovations in the electric guitar world are really cool and it’s always good to be thinking of new ideas, but I think the “Fender style” and “Gibson style” electric guitar is basically just like an “A-style mandolin” or an “F-style mandolin” it’s simply the instrument itself. This comment ended up being way more in depth than I intended it to be

[@REDW1NG94]

It really is a great book. Another good one is "Play it Loud" by Brad Tolinski and Alan di Perna. After reading those 2 books, pretty much all my answers about the inventors, companies, and players have been answered

[@rydner]

You guys absolutely need to read that book!! I got it when it first came out. My. God. So much good storytelling to fuse the rise of great artists and the creators. It’s like a docuseries from the history channel but as a book!!

[@chris_2714]

Sounds like a good book. Adding it to my reading list 👍

[@garycoates4987]

The quote I always heard from Ted McCarty originally was "now anyone with a pin router can make a guitar" talking about fender,,, then the call of $$$ was overwhelming and Gibson changed their tune

[@jdstan9650]

OMG...the screenshot of Baxter smelling Jonathan's beard is my new screensaver...thank you 🙏 for hours, days, months, and years of hilarity! 🤣🤣

[@kcsatchell5202]

I own both and agree they approach their consumer from a different angle. I did visit the Gibson Garage two weeks ago…walked out with a Murphy Lab Pelham Blue ‘64 SG Reissue with “Light” aging. Staff was great and awesome experience!!

[@CasinoGuitars]

Very cool! send the shop some photos of it! [e-mail]

[@ryangunwitch-black]

That's a great book. I'm on my second read now. The writing is such that it moves at a brisk pace and stays interesting the whole way through.

[@dangolguitartech]

This video put a thought in my head… Imagine being the first guy to discover how to control a dimed Bassman? That would have been very cool, I think.🤠 Thanks for another great video, fellas!

[@alangreenway6695]

Just think of Fender 1950-1964- the Telecaster, the Strat, the P and J basses, the Jazzmaster, the Jaguar, the Mustang. Now think of Gibson 1950-1964- the LP Paul, the LP Junior, the V and Explorer, the ES-335 and the other ES range, the SG, and the Firebird. Since then they’ve come up with a tiny amount of ideas (the Gibson DC, The Fender Acoustasonic) but just think of how limited the ranges of modern companies are: PRS just have variations on the Custom 22 and 24, the Silver Sky Strat-like and the 594 Paul-like, and some budget models of these guitars. The only company that comes close to Gibson and Fender in innovation is Gretsch- all of their shapes coming from 1950-1964. You wonder why those 14 years were so different to everything that came after in Guitar design.

[@jeffthomson1777]

Always love the topics you guys pick to go over

[@CasinoGuitars]

Sincere thanks!!!

[@joshloggins3298]

The book is a good read! It's really fascinating to learn the history of both Fender and Gibson. Each companies approach to what would be the birth of Rock music

[@ryanfulldark2775]

The few 50s and 60s Fenders I’ve played really capture that vibe you spoke of. I’m not sure the tone they pioneered was completely by accident, Leo was methodical with pickup placement, tone woods etc. But I’m quite sure he never envisioned the myriad of ways his instruments would be used. Ex. Jimi Hendrix! Great vid guys!

[@volkerlange7251]

“Tone wood” is an irrelevant concept in this context. Pickups are not microphones, they aren’t picking up any resonance in the wood, all they “hear” is the disruption in the magnetic field of the pickup caused by the vibration of the strings in the proximity of said field. What effects your guitar tone, ie what creates the signal, is the shape and size of the magnetic field (the design of the pickup), the strings (material, diameter) and how your fingers make them vibrate. On a hollow body electric guitar, contact between the strings and the body via the bridge causes the soundboard to vibrate, and that vibration on the soundboard causes the bridge to vibrate which does effect the vibration of the strings, but even in that context you’re not hearing “tonewood” beyond the fact that a harder wood will vibrate more strongly than a softer wood, that is to say that if I made two archtops, one out of a very hard wood like maple and one out of a plastic that has the same hardness as maple and put the same electronics on them, they’d sound the same. This isn’t the case where tonewood is relevant, acoustic guitars, since the interaction between the vibrating strings and the wood is much more complex and audible. You could not use plastics with equivalent hardness. There’s nothing wrong with caring about wood on your guitar, I like the weight and aesthetics of a mahogany body with a maple cap, but it’s an issue that’s purely aesthetic! The wood of a Les Paul is as relevant to tone as the color of your blanket is relevant to how soft and warm it is.

[@ryanfulldark2775]

@@volkerlange7251 😲 I dig the passion, bro.

[@volkerlange7251]

@@ryanfulldark2775 I hear so much nonsense about tonewood it drives me crazy

[@ryanfulldark2775]

@@volkerlange7251 It’s far from nonsense. Ash and Alder sound noticeably different. Just as mahogany and maple. Fretboard material alters the sound notably as well. When you played and owned as many guitars as I have, you pick these things out a bit easier. I understand there is a faction that calls it nonsense and a faction that puts merit behind it. But the evidence is out there it makes a difference, and it’s readily available. But, hey, constructive debate is what makes this so damn interesting!

[@honkytonkinson9787]

I lean towards Fender guitars but I don’t think a guitar collection is complete without at least one Les Paul I prefer the studio to a standard or a custom; something about the lack of binding makes them look sleek to my eye. Some of my favorite guitars are LP studios with figured tops and transparent finishes

[@TommySG1]

Very cool, I just ordered a copy. Thanks guys… really dig your feeds!

[@bardpendragon7229]

That book is definitely on my to read list. I'm pretty sure Dylan lives in his own version of "Howl's Moving Castle".

[@ryanfulldark2775]

Yes!!! Can’t wait to watch this later!

[@leamanc]

The Birth of Loud is a very enjoyable book! I received it for my birthday a couple of years ago, and it was a perfect gift.

[@mikedr1549]

My wife got me that book last year for Christmas - really enjoyed it!

[@SV-wb8kh]

Always remember that a genius was usually thought of as crazy untill their idea proved to be successful.

[@deanmccaskill5495]

Podcast!!! Thank you!! I gave it 5 stars and didnt even get to listen yet.... Unfortunately its the Canadian store so it may not even count haha Love u guys!

[@fireroadeddy]

I truly enjoy the two of you and your ramblings. But I have a 2016 Les Paul Studio T that I had to save a couple of years for and is one of my favorite guitars. Why all the studio hate?

[@davidp1192]

The book is great. I highly recommend it. It is available on audio book (which is how I read it).

[@chrisconnick353]

If you guys keep talking Star Wars I’m going to have to keep watching!! 🤓 that’s at least 1/3 of why I love watching you guys. The other 2/3 is so I can see Jonathan’s beard. I’m going to check out that Canadian guy. Thanks fellas

[@shanewalton8888]

have you guys read Brad Tolinski's Play it Loud?

[@glassslide]

Fantastic book!! Couldn't put it down, excellent read.

[@Ironworthstriking]

The book is fantastic. Highly recommend it.

[@rubiera58]

Hi Tyler - I respectfully disagree. Agree, fun read but see my comments below. Regards, rubiera58

[@Adamnme01]

That book is what got me back into guitar after about 8 years away from it because life got in the way.

[@timothypotter2137]

The book "Play It Loud" is what started it all for me. No looking back!

[@seanalan3252]

Hey! I’m in Weehawken…

[@theHAL9000]

Terrific book! Extremely informative and interesting.

[@tipsylibrarians7764]

I’ve read both Birth of the Loud and Play it Loud. To me the genius of Leo Fender and his team was that they listened to customers and used great designs to meet their needs at a reasonable cost. Leo started repairing radios. He branched out to renting PAs for things like church events and concerts. He was a fan of Western Swing and those musicians were among his customers. He thought he could improve the design of the steel players amps. Then he started building steel guitars. After hearing the guitar ps complain about feedback and expensive neck repairs, he branched into guitars. The Strat was based on feedback from the Tele and was meant to replace it. Some players wanted contours, more sounds and a vibrato bar. I also didn’t know that there was period early on that Bigsby, Les Paul and Leo were friendly and would discuss designs at Les Pauls home. Cool books.

[@georgestahl8866]

Nine minutes before you drifted off. We can blame Dylan talks tone for that. Yet, per usual, you masterfully wind back around to the “topic.” Thank you both for my daily dose of gear talk with a little bit of life thrown in the mix.

[@Adamski1989]

I have a 2018 studio that's basically a standard without body binding.its got the 57s in,bound fretboard and all features of a standard but with coil taps.it feels like a standard and screams

[@Frosenborg]

Gibson did cool/weird things in 2018. One shop had 2018 Classic with P90 pickups and no weight relief.

[@Adamski1989]

@@Frosenborg was 2018 the last year of Henry ? Just wondering if it will appreciate in value

[@Frosenborg]

@@Adamski1989 Could have been, I'm not sure. I'd think your Studio is more valuable than is regular counterparts.

[@thelawnmowertapes]

Thanks for the continued dynamic informative vids.

[@mknchpssimmons4281]

Stop planning to read it and do it already. That book is amazing!

[@stephenstgo]

Good book. Really interesting seeing how it all started for both of them.

[@joshdickens8281]

Cool. I plan to check out the book.

[@redheadgoins7411]

Half way through this book right now, really good read.

[@jerrymorgan1752]

I love and own both Gibson and fender guitars. I will say as a personal choice, with Gibson I would love to have a custom shop or even a standard. I simply don’t like fret nibs. This has left me with studios, studio deluxe, ash body and BFG,s. Keep the great videos coming. P.S. not on the toilet while watching this video…..the wife’s not home.

[@twenty3electronics]

The Slingerland Songster was the first solid body electric guitar. It used 6 coils in a hum canceling arrangement, similar to zexcoil’s design

[@jaybe813]

The Gibson Garage is awesome. I bought an L-00 there this past summer. Handy and dangerous that I live only 15 minutes from it.

[@CasinoGuitars]

That's too close for us. We would be broke :)

[@jaybe813]

@@CasinoGuitars It is too close. They’re ALL too close!

[@dw7704]

That book is a good read for guitar history, which I enjoy Cool how their histories intertwine Things didn’t happen in complete isolation

[@IndigoJo]

Fender and Gibson guitars really show the roots of the companies that make them: Leo Fender was an electrician who made amplifiers and diversified into making guitars and his guitars look like electrical appliances. Gibson was a mandolin maker which diversified into arch top guitars in the early 20th century and their electric guitars look like musical instruments, specifically archtops (except maybe the Explorer family). Look at any two Fender models and the electrics differ as much as the bodywork, while Gibson models' differences from each other are in the wood, while the electrics mostly stick to the same formula: two humbuckers or P90s, a three-way switch and a volume and tone control each. Fender always seem to be innovating in pickups and circuitry while Gibson trades on 50s nostalgia and authenticity; people seem to want 50s pickups like they were never improved on.

[@emptypromises2962]

Well, have they ever really been improved on? They have surely been diversified, but improved on? No, not really, I'd say. Listen to how Gary Moore got those paf:s screaming and howlin' and how Peter Green got'em to sing so sweet and lovely; they're the exact same pickups in the exact same guitar. Both sounds are more or less a "perfect" guitar sound, but so different.

[@jamesburge1983]

You guys really should also read "The story of Paul Bigsby" Among other things you get to see photos of Paul, Les and leo hanging out. Not to mention Paul actually built a guitar for Les, pregibson. It is really fascinating to read the story of how all these guys were just buddies. Kinda neat to know that the nerdy engineers were hanging out doing the same things as all the 'cool kids'.

[@richc.9273]

94 Epiphone LP-100. Took out stock pickups put in a set of Gibson 490's. Thoughts?

[@timothypotter2137]

Love Dylan Talks Tone. His HSS loaded pickguard significantly improved my Squier Strat.

[@markkern5310]

Fender really is like a modular guitar. Anyone can work on one. Was my first guitar and my fav to mod.

[@twenty3electronics]

A 1954 Stratocaster was originally $249, and would be over $2,500 adjusted for inflation. A Gibson Les Paul was actually slightly cheaper

[@ScottPaine]

I'm a Les Paul guy but I've been looking into a tele or strat. type fiddle to add to my guitarsonal.

[@phillippitts6294]

Are the podcasts available somewhere else besides Spotify?

[@kevinmurtagh4996]

Does the winner of the Silver Sky also come with complimentary beard-maintenance tips from Jonathan? Thanks!

[@kjbandguitars]

I love your show and all things guitar you discuss. But do you ever sell any guitars? I have been looking at the same wall of guitars in the background for over a year now. Keep up the good work!

[@charlesbolton8471]

Those are their personal collection.

[@kjbandguitars]

@@charlesbolton8471 I know that. That is the joke.

[@Ryanvatz]

The podcasts have been great!

[@CasinoGuitars]

Thanks Ryan!!!

[@brechtloyens3892]

please put the podcast also on deezer for the non-spotifyusers :D

[@richc.9273]

I might have to change my answer to the secret question if Baxter keeps dogging Jonathan's home life. Peace gents. Thanks for the content as always.

[@jonathanbloomfield2603]

I'm reading the book right now. It's great very interesting

[@brucer261]

yes the JJN Epiphone Gold Glory. I want one. Also would like to get the black one to, just so I have them both

[@notthisnotthat]

"I like you, Clarence. I always have, and I always will." - The King

[@curtevans838]

You two are great! I own several pretty nice Fenders because I don't feel the buyers remorse from only dropping a grand at a time, but man! I still haven't brought myself to justify 5 grand for a nice Les Paul. I still really want one though. For now, my Epi with Duncan Antiquities will have to suffice.

[@darthsensei3838]

Yea that book is awesome. I wouldn’t wait for the movie.

[@DK00018]

Good stuff guys!

[@mburtondavis]

Never played a Gibson. None of the shops around where I live don’t even carry them. I’d have to drive 2 hours to a Guitar Center to even see one. But Fenders are everywhere.

[@jeffhershberger]

I read it last year, great book!

[@FJA---]

Back in the 60s mainly I was a bass player and a little rhythm. Never was a fan of Gibson guitars. For solid bodies it was Fender, for hollow bodies it was Guild or Gretsch. Do have to admit that I still think the best sounding acoustics ever made were the mid 60s Gibson Hummigbirds with the Dove not far behind. For acoustic 12 strings I was a fan of the Guilds. For a mid/late 60s utility acoustic I wish I'd never gotten rid of my Goya. Played well and sounded good.

[@jscribs71]

If the Borg played guitar, would they play an Explorer?

[@rongroves9620]

Norm recommended that book a year or so ago, and I bought and read it. It is a quick read, and heck I barely know how to read since youtube. You should check it out.

[@74kevin1]

The Birth of Loud is one of the best guitar books ever written.

[@markbassman]

Great book. Definitely recommend

[@joerob3081]

Baxter just can't look away from that magnificent beard. Not to detract from the upcoming arm battle between you two but, who would win an arm wrestling match between Leo Fender and Ted McCarty?

[@smelltheglove2038]

Where is the video for the lunar ice?

[@noahmcchicken1228]

I love watching yall btw

[@CasinoGuitars]

Thanks A ton Noah!

[@jasonswitzer1748]

Man. I have a Les Paul Tribute and I absolutely love the guitar. I sat down and played a Heritage H-150 Core and a Les Paul Standard 50s and honestly… it plays exactly the same. Does the Les Paul and Heritage look better? 100% yes. But do they sound better? Tone is in the ear of the beholder (is that a thing?), but to me… no. They cost way more, but don’t really sound any better. When you buy the big dog Gibsons, you’re playin for the flame top and maybe some relic-ing… that’s basically it. Maybe I just was super sacrilegious, but that’s my honest opinion.

[@jimhimesjr]

I debated a Gibson studio vs a 59 epiphone with the Gibson pickups. Ended up with the epi, no complaints with it just getting used to the weight

[@ChrisEck13]

I do definitely prefer the Burstbuckers over the 498T/490R that are in Studios. The Burstbuckers in your Epiphone are the same pickups that would be in a Gibson Les Paul Standard. I bought a Gibson Les Paul 60s Tribute last year for 600 bucks that had those same pickups. I just sold it to get a different Gibson but they're great pickups.

[@Mikey__R]

I have an Epiphone Studio. It's absolutely fine!

[@nevillecragg9066]

I would digest this book with Baxter and Jonathan narrating it to me, In between chapters though I’d like an awkward honesty break and some movie recommendations. Then gently fall asleep to some “wooly beard swaying in the breeze” macro sounds.

[@richsackett3423]

That's funny. I was noticing Jonathan's beard even before you mentioned Dr. Macgillicudy's Most Famous Gentleman's Miraculous Hair Tonic or whatever.

[@Pead929]

Is that guitar Lunar Ice?

[@jonathanbloomfield2603]

The guitaroligist suggest that Summersby (I believe that was the name) guitars came out with the solid body electric first.

[@scottkidwellmusic9175]

Helluva way to start the day, gentlemen. It always seemed to be a west coast vs east coast thing in the context of my younger thinking. Forward thinking, hip, and cool as opposed to more traditional philosophies. Not that either is bad, just different. Then there's Bigsby that throws a monkey wrench into my thinking... And I'll admit that it took me a long time to come around to liking or wanting either Fender or Gibson, because I didn't know any better in my punk rock heart. I saw them both as corporate giants, and didn't feel I could support either of them. All those years... wasted 😂 Thanks for a good and informative vid- Be good to y'all

[@wrobinson1702]

Good stuff. My feeling about Fender: Their market, at least initially, was the "working musician." The guys (and girls) out there on the road and in the local clubs who were mostly just getting by, financially. Gibson, OTOH, was building for the elite-nationally and internationally musicians/stars who sold lots of records, appeared on TV, etc, with significant disposable income. Now, Fender fills that same niche, but has expanded to include Beginners,(the Squier series, which I love) and high end players (Fender custom). Gibson has been much less successful in expanding their market in that fashion.

[@supersoniq3506]

My take on Fender & Gibson: They are desired not because their guitars feature state of the art, ergonomic designs. They are desired because so many great players and music was made with them. But, here's the truth: Guitarists didn't have other choices. Kind of like Jack Nicklaus winning all those tournaments in the 60's & 70's using golf clubs that are inferior to what is available today. He had no other choice. Those guitars/golf clubs were good for their time. But today, I'm not playing golf with 60's gear and I'm not playing guitar with a 60's instrument. Basically, I don't look at a strat or LP and think 'I want one of those'. There are so many other choices that are much more playable. I realize most guitarists may not like or agree with what I think. Thats cool. We are all entitled to our own opinions.

[@brooksroman2918]

Could it be said that by 1958 both Fender and Gibson had adopted a little bit of the other’s vision? Fender released the Jazzmaster to be their “premium” guitar (literally called the Jazzmaster targeted to jazz players, a market traditionally dominated by.. Gibson) and Gibson was now producing the Specials, Juniors, and Melody Makers, which were student models but they were more affordable. Now it seems they both feel that having something at every price point is the winning recipe because a customer is going to spend what they want to spend on a guitar, and if they don’t have an offering at that customer’s price point, there are other brands who will steal that customer away. The Japanese/independent copies of the 70’s/80’s could be to thank for that.

[@kowalguitarlife9119]

hello boys love the show .....goooooood stuff

[@ryangunwitch-black]

If you’ve read it maybe do a part two now! I’m rereading it for the third time lol😂

[@Iamthestig42069]

The 60s and50s studio tribute models were way cooler than the regular studio.

[@portsideguitar1981]

I loved this book.

[@BackyardCed]

That Magnatone jacket I do need

[@Reverend_Mojo]

What'd the Fender say while arguing with a Gibson? ... ... "Hey! Don't lose your head"

[@robertlewis8024]

Did some warranty work for both companies in the past. When you'd talk to someone at Fender, you'd end up talking about guitars. Gibson? Not so much.

[@matthewwelch9579]

My guitar journey: 1999 Squier Affinity Strat 2000 Fender Tele STD. Mex. 2005 Gibson USA Faded SG 2017 Fender Modern Player Tele HSS China