casiopea vs tsquare - fightman

casiopea vs tsquare - fightman

[@user-rs1kt4rd1n]

R.I.P. Hirotaka Izumi

[@axcel9412]

:(

[@kodoskang8690]

What part is he?

[@user-rs1kt4rd1n]

@@kodoskang8690 0:00 piano

[@pissmonkeys4945]

Are for real :(

[@superniger4822]

WHAT :(((((((

[@tractorKing]

That guy's so hardcore he was just like "Fuck it ima play Mozart"

[@jren0223]

I agree🤣

[@ScrewStache]

His name was Hirotaka Izumi R.I.P

[@tractorKing]

@@ScrewStache Indeed friend 💕

[@douglasparker2803]

And they just start playing smoke on the water

[@WarWarriorx]

Noo, RIP he had an excellent humour

[@MTTMX]

That section where it devolves into almost seemingly random disparate elements is musical comedy, cracks me up every time.

[@Moridin69]

But the way they bring it back home... It's perfection, man.

[@WeezerBreezerElScorcho]

that part made me laugh so much. loved it

[@DWMKirbissin]

disparate*

[@dragon___]

the improvisation section starts out with 4 bars, then 2, then 1. its so funny what they come up with the short time, all good fun

[@iamthinking2252_]

“when literally everyone wants the solo”

[@cmf1402]

This is still the most intimidating musical performance I've ever seen in my life.

[@danilopolar6476]

100%

[@pihermoso11]

this is the next generation: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eHKWnamNlqhqhrs senri kawaguchi's drumming style is like akira jimbo (the drummer from casiopea in this video)

[@wesleyswank1527]

the musical equivalent of T-posing to assert dominance

[@danilopolar6476]

@@wesleyswank1527 exactly but in a way more dominant way

[@bmwenthusiast96]

Well then go see the Liquid Tension Experiment, if you like progressive Rock/Metal and want to see extraordinary musicians really "living" their instruments.

[@jazusaxs]

At 4:09 the contrast between Hirotaka Izumi playing Mozart(Sonata facile, KV 545) and then Issei Noro playing the funkiest Wha-Wha chords, that exist. Just beautiful, these expressions in their way of soloing.

[@concrete_coldface]

What's the name of the Mozart part, I keep looking for it and can't find it

[@jazusaxs]

@@concrete_coldface I'm not sure if it's something from Mozart but I'm sure that it sounds like it is.

[@concrete_coldface]

It does sound familiar though, I'm not sure either. I'll keep asking around, lol. Thanks

[@jazusaxs]

found something kinda similar kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqnIcqaZa9Jma9k

[@NicolasOGordao]

@@concrete_coldface it's Mozart's K. 545

[@benediktos_13]

"Music is the only universal language, it needs no translation, it speaks soul to soul." - Berthold Auerbach

[@kingbroseph9773]

Breadholde

[@benediktos_13]

@@kingbroseph9773 BROADSWEPH

[@NickandCooperLikeSub]

Armin arlert*

[@canzer3434]

okay

[@mortomusic8072]

If I show this to someone and they dont like it, I typically dont get close to them. * Same thing for the song 'Red Clay' by Freddie Hubbard

[@rolorolo1717]

The guy playing mozart really makes this look like it was all an elaborate set up for *that joke*

[@TonyMontana-fu2ez]

Feelings like im watching the last episode of epic jazz anime.

[@Shaker626]

In an alternate 1980's Japan, man has already colonized space. Now the galaxy has been entranced by the magic of jazz fusion, two bands go far and wide giving their gift of music to the cosmos, only to come back to Earth to finish what they started in an epic finale.

[@basicallyjustaplaylistowne6533]

The band's battled to see who was more powerful, but teamed up in the end to defeat a greater evil... (Keep adding to this story until it becomes a good story)

[@mcf3681]

The two bands perform a (jazz) fusion dance and morph into super musicians to rid Earth of evil fun-devouring aliens.

[@AsteroSloth]

but the evil forces of tasteless cooperative and commercially calculated pop were spreading, never did the melody felt as weak as it did. Even Cassiopea and T-Square douubted they had the power to counteract them...

[@Wreddit_Regal]

But little did they know, their music already had the coveted secret formula to surviving and besting the sands of time, which was...

[@tmbottegal]

The internal dialogue of a musical genius: "Ok, so I've got 2 bars, what should I do with them?" "K. 545" "Alrighty then"

[@Kumquat_Lord]

In a different recording he plays Fur Elise lol

[@steverman2312]

@@Kumquat_Lord SEND A LINK TO IT I NEED TO SEE THAT

[@Kumquat_Lord]

@@steverman2312 I don't have one sadly. It's from the Tsquare CD version of those concerts.

[@597das]

the off-beat bass part at 3:58 caught me off guard and had me laughing my ass off for some reason lol. these guys are all legends

[@liamfogle8367]

that shit cracks me up its my favorite part.

[@jeffayoe7468]

love that bass part

[@justine.3416]

EE AA EE AA EE AA EE AA EE AA EE

[@EagleOpsAirsoft]

The transition between the two guitars at 4:58 is butter smooth.

[@ado4224]

I live for the start of of that solo. He played it really smooth but it sound so electric

[@oooatrooo5028]

CASIOPEA Issei Noro - Guitar Minoru Mukaiya - Keys Yoshihiro Naruse - Bass THE SQUARE (T-SQUARE) Masahiro Ando - Guitar Takeshi Itoh - Sax (NOT Santana) Hirotaka Izumi - Piano Mitsuru Sutoh - Bass Hiroyuki Noritake - Drums Additional musicians Akira Jimbo - Drums Keizo Kawano - Keys

[@lambsauce5445]

where did you get Santana from?

[@fherry1321]

Was Akira Jimbo not performing for Casiopea at the time of this performance?

[@snspi1]

@@fherry1321 he hasn’t technically been an official member since 1989. his role has been “special support drums” since he started performing again with them in the late 90s.

[@StannyObelisk]

@@fherry1321 I believe he left along with Tetsuo Sakurai

[@lilyabatliwala6789]

Also, wasn't Keizoh Kawano a pianist for T-Square until August 2020?

[@sirfailsalot6174]

Hey let’s not forget the amazing camera work, lighting and audio mixing. Everything about this is just goes so hard

[@georgelydon4290]

Music is about tension and then resolution. Most songs do this over a number of bars but in this case it happens across the entire 7 mins. the soloing section is so chaotic that no one knows what’s going on so when it resolves back into a co-ordinated piece it makes for a SLLLAAPPPIIINNNN TUNE

[@kungfujones1]

Well said. I know Jordan Peterson is widely regarded as a controversial lightning-rod, and I have no way of knowing how you view him, or if you're even aware of who he is. That being said, your comment reminded me of this clip from the Joe Rogan Podcast where he explains the importance of music. I think you might find some value in it. Peace kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHTHZ5yce8l-rM0

[@harrifongostudios]

@@kungfujones1OMG YOU ARE SO GAY

[@Cypeq]

well I don't think it's like that... they're playing casiopea fightman, with plenty of space between for every musician to drop in the solo piece to the groove, some solo pieces are off-kilter some riff of the previous one, it's bloody brilliant.

[@jgb1311]

This jamming doesn't sound like a "casiopea vs tsquare" it feels more like a "casiopea and tsquare"

[@timmyc9915]

The latter should be the title for this video, makes more sense.

[@eliastinitus5045]

Son: Dad, why is my sisters name "Rose"? Dad: Because your mother loves roses so much! Son:Ah, thanks Dad. Dad: No problem, Casiopea vs T-Square - Fightman.

[@BMR86]

that was a good one! lol!

[@SiriuX4727]

i laughed way too hard at this lmao

[@themazespinner2610]

Avengers Endgame is the most ambitious crossover in history Casiopea and T-Square: Hold our Instruments

[@alanc497]

How are they gonna play then ? By whistling ? I just imagine them getting back their instruments not understanding why they left them in the first place

[@KafinSulthan]

@@alanc497 you must be fun at parties.

[@SkythontheBrony]

@@alanc497 Hahahahaha

[@MM-vs2et]

@@alanc497 You think the music you heard from them came from instruments? That's just a way so we can understand what they're actually doing. The generate music just by existing

[@fto9398]

@@alanc497 shut the fuck up

[@siosio6935]

That fucking transition at 4:09 kills me everytime

[@andreworio3044]

I died bro💀

[@justinguo6692]

@stets uninu bro and then they just start popping off💀💀

[@gabrielbritto9764]

alguém sabe ou imagina qual a referencia de estilo musical ele usa nessa parte? Me remete a algo de clássico

[@DetectiveConack]

@@gabrielbritto9764Mozart

[@mdemanuel1911]

​@@gabrielbritto9764alguns pessoas dizem que e mozzart k535

[@tuulymusic3856]

Humour, imagination, optimism, and PURE SKILL combine to create this timeless masterpiece - The most euphoric live performance, EVER!!!!!!

[@slapshack]

this may just be the best musical performance I've ever seen

[@Hawari_X]

true

[@SpiralPegasus]

It builds up, shatters a thousand times in little fills for each instrument, snippets of covers slip in and it builds up again... It's damn fantastic. How can you NOT love it?

[@ozo998]

This is the greatest Character Selection Menu music I've ever heard

[@roryhawk1]

These guys are pretty good. They should try making music for Mario Kart.

[@jacobmastroly1103]

But they did

[@MsBapakmu]

T Square make some of Gran Turismo ost

[@theofillusdiangegana9846]

@@jacobmastroly1103 that's the joke

[@kuru9157]

oh these are the guys behind the awesome music

[@kaffe5602]

@@jacobmastroly1103 r/whooosh

[@ZappyRXQ]

I just love how they were all enjoying themselves The band enjoyed making the music as much as the audience listening to it

[@elijahvalongo9528]

I've performed all around the country... seen performances from musicians all around the world... I'm not even seeing this live and I already know this is the best I've ever seen.

[@sdsdfsdfasdf]

the two guitarists are so amazing that they asked Carlos Santana to play sax :)

[@Reasonably.Unreasonable.311]

fricking guy 😭😭😭😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@adellesnowqueen6673]

i'm pretty sure that's just mr satan in a golf hat

[@NugNux]

heheh...

[@bassplayinfool]

Ahahahahahaha! That's hilarious!

[@pilisjose]

Hahahahahahaha I almost die. XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[@philgrogan6924]

Oh My God. There is no way to critisise this band. PERFECT. Groove, melody, style, Skill, pure talent, and most of all makes it listenable. The most important part. Brilliant.

[@moisesalzuro1623]

I'll never learn Japanese if these are the only 2 bands I listen to.

[@griffinrichardson715]

I’ll never learn Japanese because I’m too lazy

[@gianfissore4290]

Hahahahahha

[@anontob]

LMAOOOO

[@L1nk2002]

This is what happens when you put two bands of crazy and crazily talented japanese men on a stage at the same time. And it can only be described as pure magic.

[@mocell]

they got the groove.. they got the speed.. they got the tune.. they got the skill.. they got the audience.. the got the fun.. they got everything!!!

[@GaleonGuitar]

6:24 - 7:00 Sax guy goes into unstoppable mode. 😎🎷

[@SupremeBread21]

So true

[@DarkElfAlbain]

3:58 my god what a sound to come out of a bass

[@3borg]

The part where they're all trading solos is honestly to die for

[@wubengtjut9868]

they're not a group of musicians, they're a bunch of magicians...

[@seongbinchoi917]

Totally agreed

[@kplinger]

musicians are magicians

[@20k000m]

こんだけの人数が同時に演奏しても音の洪水にならないのすごいよなぁ。

[@somethingoriginal1707]

Nobody: My stomach during final exams: 3:59

[@ShikataGaNai100]

Hirotaka Izumi - RIP Not only a killer keyboardist but also a lawyer and graduate from the esteemed Keio University School of Law.

[@PeppySweetheart]

Easily one of the best live music performances of all time. The energy in this video is unmatched!

[@finalboss2859]

So we just gonna ignore buddy smacking that guitar like it's a bass at 3:29 ? I mean shit they murdered this track

[@br0thax]

He's does that since 1985

[@cyclone6640]

@@br0thax preach!

[@jwaj]

Issei noro

[@ryujinayato1623]

Miyavi: you srsly bruv?

[@TylerJones-zv6uu]

The first time I heard it thought it was a bassist, I didn’t notice that until you brought it up but DAAAAAAMN

[@BuildingCenter]

What next-level film squad timed and shot this 30,000 camera extravaganza? They're as good as the fusion-band fusion.

[@thesomalistrawhat]

Lmao, provably edited in post bro. Not gonna lie though, the camera setup is probably insane

[@pihermoso11]

@@thesomalistrawhat leave it to the japanese to do something amazing.. that's why budokan will be the mecca of music.. you know you hit it big in music if you've played there.. the sound guys and video crew for a japan concert always take their job seriously... the best Dream Theater live concert was the budokan version.. Mr Big in budokan was just as amazing.. i think it boils down to 2 things, technology and work ethic... japan has sony, yamaha, casio, roland/boss ,canon, nikon, pioneer, ibanez, tama, jvc.. coupled with hard-working people and that brings you amazing concert experience

[@MM-vs2et]

​@@thesomalistrawhat Seriously, I'm glad 50 cameras was used to film every corner of this legendary set

[@pengU1n_pardon]

bro other than being such a skillful and just fun performance, this is a mixing masterpiece holy shit

[@diegorovaglia6945]

Yes! The sound engineers of this performance are fucking legends, imagine listening to this shit live, imma die from the groove

[@Mr_RunningMan]

5:22 the glare on his guitar as he moves it makes it look like he is making lightning with his sweet jams

[@requiem7516]

his uhhhhh....sweet mint jams?

[@diegomariani9761]

@@requiem7516 noiceeeeeeee

[@Rihtaf]

@@requiem7516 niceeee

[@DDD_Tinker]

@@requiem7516 EEEEEEEEEEYYYYYY!!!

[@jorgequeipul]

@@requiem7516 YEEEEESSSS

[@michaelimmanuelr118]

4:58 shit that's epic

[@kcryrine5056]

What's better than this? People having a great time, doing what they love, and creating something beautiful

[@bigtedcooks4192]

4:09 when your mom asks you to show the whole fam what you can play on the piano

[@EcthelonEvendil]

No other version of this song I can find is as good as this one. For some reason this particular one with it's unique set of solos is just my favourite.

[@jmsunday]

This is the best live concert in KZbin I’ve ever seen. Im quite surprised this video isn’t within the KZbin hall of fame

[@user-gq3il7oh6z]

皆さん本当に楽しんで演奏していますね。このライブ行けた人は幸福ですね

[@VilodWacholderbeerenmet]

I have never seen a group of musicians have this much fun

[@samueltambunan6897]

Frank then you've only seen small groups of bands/musicians then.

[@ComradeKoopa]

@@samueltambunan6897 People like you are the worst.

[@Daijakake]

4:08 Best part of the whole video

[@shinji5217]

Lmao

[@narfuzs]

what do you mean?

[@zNblack00]

Such a madlad. He was like trollin everyone. Like i’m gonna playin mozart

[@Ivan-pv1xs]

Lmao

[@cyclone6640]

fightman really is a crazy song lmao

[@Pythonassum]

4:26 : Ping ping ping ping 4:29 : Ting ting ting 4:44 : *WRRRRRRRRRR* 4:46 : *DAAAAAAA*

[@jellyman-]

the peak of musical ability

[@TheShiphoo]

4:49 : *HRRRRRRR*

[@hashiispep]

3:59 : *_EEEEOOOOEEEEEOOOOEEEEEOOOOOEEEEEEOOOOOO_*

[@alecmejia1960]

3:21 is such a good piano groove!!

[@mrleaks6940]

Is that part of a song? I’ve been trying to find it😂

[@pcguy619]

@@mrleaks6940 nah, its just Richard Tee style piano playing - forceful and rhythmic. He has a few solo albums.

[@FunkySpunky91]

over the years I have watched this so many times. Great music, Great Energy, Great times. :)

[@damjawoo]

FunkySpunky91 Thank you comment. :)

[@MrArisongegenheimer]

+FunkySpunky91 i am brazilian. i met this video when i was 14. and i do the same as you. now i am 20

[@leo198593]

me too. i was in 25 and now 30.

[@FunkySpunky91]

i haven't watched this for the year 2017 yet, so here we go!! :)

[@pinksunsetasmr7471]

I just watch this all the time. Whenever I meet someone who hasn't seen this, I'll show this to them!

[@RSteve99]

すんごいいい演奏。これ、演っている本人たちも相当楽しいだろうなぁ。これが全員日本人っていうのがまた嬉しい。日本にも、こんなすごいミュージシャンが居るってこと。

[@Akita_ken2236]

こんなふうにいい年のとり方したい

[@muudcatt9541]

I've been listening to both bands for 10+ years. I would come back to this video once in a while and watch it and it always felt visiting a dear old friend

[@Chwhnodoubt6555]

00:54 a Wolf 04:43 a Cow

[@-nikhil]

wow

[@zyrus2552]

4:38 a donkey 😃

[@disjointedhoudini]

4:08 a Wolfgang

[@danielro1055]

lol

[@kodoskang8690]

I love this performance that everyone's smiling

[@El_RorroV]

Because they're full 100 % sync and they know it

[@cbr3220]

This is the reason why I love both of these utterly amazing bands.

[@Daniel-el1vr]

大抵の曲だと動画流しながら他のことしちゃうけどこれは見ちゃう 全員楽しそうに演奏してて見てるこっちも楽しいね

[@96juin15]

和泉さんのこの最初のピアノソロが素敵で大好きでした。ご冥福をお祈りします。

[@MitsurugiR]

I swear the Japanese have some otherworldly understanding of music, nobody even compares to them.

[@kang_clkk]

20년가까이 들은 두그룹음악인데.. 다들 나이가 드셔서 언젠가 한두분 떠나시지 않을까 생각해본적 있었긴한데 히로타카 이즈미씨가 떠나셨군요. 명복을 빕니다.

[@geonugeonu_0516]

진짜 어디부터 들었을때 이 곡이 제일 맛있는지 너무 잘 알고 편집한거같다

[@LeChaunpre]

Rest in Peace Hirotaka Izumi, from France, with a lot of respect 🙏🙏

[@skypentraico4322]

Hearing Mozart in the middle of Fightman is one of the most jarring musical experiences I've ever had and I'm here for it.

[@intell2644]

3:00 SMOKE ON THE WATER??!?!!?!?!?!?!

[@bluehabs]

yes, and 3:13 was Burn also by deep purple

[@drogoburrows8805]

Deep Purple was pretty popular in Japan, I'm pretty sure Koji Kondo said he was a fan.

[@mocha-6957]

SMOKERU ON THE WATURUUUU

[@legozfordayz]

THE FIRE IN THE SKY

[@aubergine28]

18 years later im still watching this. Timeless.

[@bluesatmosphere4659]

The guitarist with the white hair is wisdom

[@dangman7817]

미쳤다 20대때부터 이영상을 몇번을 봤는지 셀수도 없음...삼십대 중반인 지금까지도 생각날때마다 보러옴...

[@b3nj4471]

shocked, I have no words to describe this beautiful masterpiece, everyone plays perfect.

[@_r0meuu]

probably the best live performance i have ever seen in my life

[@takeshiotsuka9439]

和泉さん、安らかに。。大好きでした。

[@CappeSun]

This might be the best live performance ever delivered

[@rpn353]

One of the brightest moments of j-fusion jazz

[@user-fn1bl5wk6y]

かれこれ大学生の時から見続けてるこの映像…この親父たちの少年のように楽しそうな顔見るとこっちも笑顔になりますね💡

[@adonisladera258]

this is the kind of good fight collab. 2019 anyone?

[@thiagodeandradeneves4585]

Hell yeah

[@joshuacongdon7946]

No

[@bullracing1]

hell yeah

[@hampeblixt7677]

2020

[@user-hj2ub6mq3n]

i repeat this video every day

[@user-xf2vn2zw9u]

和泉さん、いい演奏ありがとうございました。空から他のスクエアのメンバーを見てあげてください。

[@howdee128]

This is, without a doubt, the best thing I have heard. Ever. I am so flabbergasted after listening to this.

[@tamago_suki3089]

この動画何回見ても飽きない

[@skassy777]

DVD持ってるのに、何故かここで見てしまう^^;

[@Pepniti]

13 years later and I am seeing this for the first time. It's fucking amazing!!

[@jinlee1104]

I have been watching this more than 10 years but it never gets old ever. Always amazing

[@evan_ack]

I've listened to this like 20 times already. It's sooooo good

[@gregoryhernandez804]

bruh fr lmao

[@user-qe4sx9wl8o]

2:52 ナルチョのソロが須藤さんが「smoke on the water」に行くように誘ってますよね。

[@boricua9071]

黒田墨夫 idk if you can read this but im so glad im not the only one who caught that haha

[@evanderdelarosa462]

@@boricua9071 🤣😂🤣 lmao

[@hyunjejeon]

killing part: 00:00 ~ 7:27❤️

[@_banya6993]

이런 음악이 이미 70년대 말부터 완성되었다는 점에서 국경을 떠나 진심 존경스럽습니다. 우리 밴드 음악 과는 가는길이 분명 달랐네요!

[@Guitar___guy]

저런 거대한 세션속에서 연주 한번 해보구싶네요....

[@user-xd3iy5jo5i]

밴드음악의 지옥, 안타깝습니다 이런 현실에서 슈퍼밴드였나? 시청률 선방한건 의외더라구요

[@user-kn1zr4vt2s]

반면 우리나라는... 기생오라비분들 모셔놓고 춤과 여린 노래만 시키지, 길가 지나갈때마다 사랑, 사랑, 사랑........

[@dokugawa]

@@user-xd3iy5jo5i프로그램 출연자들이 실력도 있지만 ㅎㅎ워낙 외모들이 출중해서 그리고 몇명은 이미 출연하기 전부터 유명했던 사람들이라서요 ㅋㅋ

[@WatcherN]

우리나라는 음악한다하면 딴따라 취급당했으니 발전하기 힘들었죠. 형편도 힘들었고...

[@daftput]

Dear Masahiro Ando, thankyou for such a classy music for GranTurismo

[@zhijianxiong8763]

If only Tetsuo Sakurai was here :(

[@jett6906]

They needed two basses to make up for the loss.

[@eadricng3267]

and Masato Honda......

[@superniger4822]

Poor Naruse 😢 🤣🤣🤣

[@merdacalcio]

If only Takashi Sasaki was there!!

[@ujjwalsinghrajput902]

The keyboardist at 4:10 stole the show ! Lmao 😂😂😂❤️❤️❤️

[@julianbruskowski8174]

This is one of the greatest musical masterpieces of all time

[@user-mu2oe1mn3c]

1:22のせーのっ！って感じが好き

[@lukesorensen9432]

smoke on the water, into burn, into mozart is just magical

[@homanCB2]

途中でディープ・パープル弾き始めるのめっちゃ笑った

[@Quonchon]

Bass player : *deep purple* Keyboard player : *yeah, more deep purple*

[@user-mm7qb7js9c]

今まで動画で眺めるだけでしたが、昨年末の神戸チキンジョージに初めてT-SQUAREのライブ観に行ってから一層この人たちが好きになりました。 でも、こんな圧巻のライブを生で観れることがどれほど幸せかと思うと、惜しい気持ちでいっぱいです。 もしまたvsすることがあるなら絶対に観に行きたい。

[@djhak38]

やっぱすげぇわこの人たち… 尊敬するミュージシャンですわよ

[@user-gq3il7oh6z]

皆さん本当に楽しんで演奏していますね。

[@yutaka831]

why can't this kind of music ever make a comeback ?

[@1003Alfred]

They never fade away, just hide behind the disguise of "Japanese Game Ost". Many composers are influenced by jazz fusions and some of them are also members of fusion bands.

[@junethanoschurchill6750]

I feel like it’s starting to

[@ThaddeusSilva]

Both of these bands are still releasing albums! Katsushika Trio consisting of former members of Casiopea, Minoru Mukaiya, Tetsuo Sakurai & Akira Jimbo. T-square's newest album "WISH" released last may! an absolutely beautiful experience, with another T-Square album on the way! T-Square also has an abundance of albums to go through.

[@PopADoseYo]

This type of music is enjoyed by dozens of thousands of people every year at many Jam Band music festivals. All the time.

[@CatsMeow_]

It already has! It's called Mariokart 8!

[@harrifongostudios]

God these are just maestros of their craft just showing off. Like maybe if you are not into this type of music you might not get it. But on a technical levels these guys are so fucking clean in their progression. Everything seems like like it’s always the at cusp of being pure cacophony. And yet everything in the end turns out to feel both perfectly planned out and yet improvisational enough to keep you on your toes. Love these guys.

[@volvo850yatsu]

日本のフュージョン界の至宝たち