How Do Item Backfires ACTUALLY Work? | Smash Ultimate Item Trivia

[@CanvasK]

I looked into SSBU's files and the Timer (codename "slow") appears to use weights for the chances. There's slow_normal_per (55.0), slow_hazure_per (2.0, presumably self), and slow_all_per (3.0, presumably all) giving a total of 60.0. So 55/60 (91.66%) for default, 2/60 (3.33%) for self, and 3/60 (5%) for all. Not too far off from your tests. Smash 4 appears to be the same except default is 50.0 instead of 55.0, making the backfires relatively more likely--can't actually tell which is self or all since Smash 4 didn't have labels for dataminers to grab, so that'd need to be tested at some point. Couldn't find the files for Brawl unfortunately. Lightning Bolt (codename "thunder") is similar with thunder_normal_per (56.0), thunder_hazure_per (3.0), thunder_giant_per (3.0). This makes any backfire around 9.67%, pretty close to your test. Smash 4 again has a different default of 50. I did find the file for Brawl but it is raw, unlabeled bytes so I can't give anything concrete there. Hammer (codename "hammer") has hammer_hazure_persent of 5.5 (likely just raw percent (persent)). Smash 4 is unlabeled so I can't tell which value in the spreadsheet it is, so either 5% or 7%. Can't find the Brawl file, but it probably wouldn't be useful. Golden Hammer (codename "goldenhammer") is a little unclear but I'm going to guess the backfire value is goldenhammer_pikopiko at 7.5 (likely just percent). Smash 4's spreadsheet is again unlabeled and Brawl is the same old.

[@Casual_PKBeats]

Your described Hammer odds definitely feel way more in line with what I was getting in my shorter, less-sophisticated tests, so that's really cool to hear! Very satisfying knowing my actual tests were really close to the real thing lol When you say that the timers use "weights" for the chances, do you mean character weights affect the results, or are you using that as a more technical, coding-typed term? (I'm very unfamiliar as you can probably tell lol)

[@wingdinggaster6737]

@@Casual_PKBeats they mean that instead of operating off a 1-100 scale like most chance-based effects, it operates off a 1-60 scale so each "point" is worth 10/6 as much

[@CanvasK]

@@Casual_PKBeats I would've done similar testing myself even if I had the raw numbers. The code can say one thing but perhaps somewhere down the line it gets changed, so empirical testing is good to verify (in Melee I threw 100,000 Poke Balls to find the percents before I had the real weights (though I had the benefit of fast-forward, recording the memory value on change, and turbo buttons)). More so the latter, character weight doesn't affect these items. Instead of defining percents, a "weight" is used so that you can just make things relative to each other instead of recalculating the percents if they're changed in development (also avoids floating point issues and hoping it all adds to 100%). You can take the "weight" as the numerator and the "weighted sum" (sum of the weights) as the denominator. For Timer the weights are 55, 2, and 3 for a weighted sum of 60 (55+2+3) and just do 55/60, 2/60, and 3/60 to get percents. Imagine your holding a sweepstakes and people can buy a normal ticket or a gold ticket that is worth 100 normal tickets. The gold ticket has more "weight" than the normal ticket, and is thus more likely to be chosen. Unless everyone goes with the golden ticket so everyone has that 100 weight, making it no different from everyone getting a normal ticket.

[@hi-i-am-atan]

@@Casual_PKBeats it's a probability term, referring to a method of handling chance as relative to the culminative probability of all possibilities, rather than as a percent an easy way to understand it is to imagine a bag of marbles. if there's 3 blue marble, 3 green marbles, and 5 red marbles, then the first two have a weight of 3 and the reds have a weight of 5, out of the bag's culminative weight of 3 + 3 + 5 = 11. this means you have a 3 out of 11 chance of pulling out a blue marble or a green marble and a 5 out of 11 chance of pulling out a red ... and that's it, you don't need to convert those ratios to percentages because the individual weight of each possibility _is_ the probability, and the system automatically adapts if you, say, dump 9 yellow marbles into the bag. the relative odds of getting the original 11 marbles goes down, but their weights remain the same, and the percent chance if needed can be quickly found by dividing those weights with the new culminative weight of 20 and if it isn't clear why it's a useful way of doing things, well, imagine if i just said you had a 27% chance of pulling a blue marble, 27% chance for a green, and a 46% chance for a red. and then asked what chances you'd end up with if you pulled a green one. or what the odds are of pulling a red after adding 11 yellow marbles. it can also just make relative chances more intuitive to work with - to use an example from the original comment, having weights of 55, 2, and 3 for the timer possibilities means that for every 55 normal timers, you can expect around 5 backfires to occur, 2 self-slows and 3 omni-slows

[@DolphinCube]

Wait... The value for the gold hammer backfire is called "gold hammer_pikopiko"?! *My Sweet Passion starts playing while I stare at the distance*

[@memeplatereal3918]

13:38 you can extend the song to its full length by having player two also grab a hammer and clashing both your and player two's hammers while the game is slowed

[@averagestatpat]

13:45 About the golden hammer, you can actually make the song loop in its entirety twice. Set the training mode speed to its slowest, have the opponent be invincible via the Star Man item, then keep hitting the invincible opponent with the golden hammer. The hitlag makes the song last waaaay longer than usual. Give it a try! Cool video!

[@EnharmonicYT]

Fun fact about lightning: Brawl had a glitch where if you were playing Zelda/Sheik and transformed right after getting afflicted by it, your size change would stay *permanent* until you lost your stock

[@OlmiOP]

14:30 "Then there's pits stiff wrist swings which really gives off a classic NES vibe" Yea that's the point, that's how Pit swings the hammer in NES Kid Icarus. It's a neat reference!

[@Moss_Dude]

so THAT'S the reason for it, I didn't know there was a hammer in the original game so it always felt weird to me he's the only NES character with a retro animation for it

[@lasercraft32]

Strange how Mario doesn't do anything like that, given the fact that the hammer is from the original Donkey Kong...

[@MizunoKetsuban]

@@Moss_Dude You see them relatively early in the game (enemies turn into them upon collecting a harp), but you can't actually use them until you reach a dungeon, which needless to say is not a simple task.

[@OlmiOP]

@@lasercraft32 Probably a result of Mario being a Smash 64 character, they didn't really have many unique animations for it back then and Sakurai likes the legacy stuff to stay alive

[@NipplesTheEnchilada2323]

I was about to say that. Pit in the Game Boy Kid Icarus game also swings the hammer similarly, too.

[@Bryce_the_Woomy_Boi]

I think item backfires are neat, like the hammer head falling off or lighting shrinking you

[@BigPro1123]

Didn’t expect to see you here. Hello!

[@Bryce_the_Woomy_Boi]

@BigPro1123 you never know where you'll end up seeing some people

[@FatheroNature]

16:30 while rob really gets into that swing, feel like it's worth mentioning that Wario uses his impeccably strong teeth for his swing animation

[@CrimsoniteSP]

I feel like it's a big shame no one plays with items. It's actually one of the big things that separates Smash from EVERY fighting game. Even I'm guilty of really never playing with items. But if you go through the trouble of banning the RNG items, item play is just so saucy. Anywhere from the bullet bill combos showcased here to big brain traps you can prepare for later.

[@AceJackWagon885]

I always crank that shit to the *max*

[@velvetbutterfly]

I like having containers on because they're weak enough, have some sauce, and randomly have lots of sauce

[@DavidSmith-cr7mb]

adds randomness to the game. there are people who LIKE random in their games (especially when its competative) and there are those who dont...

[@Ethan-yv6cb]

That's why you just occasionally whip them out with your usual players, the gears start to turn and some crazy interactions happen. I personally really like the rollie crate

[@CrimsoniteSP]

@@Ethan-yv6cb When I had friends that played the game we definitely went back and forth with items and no items. Idk what it was but I ended up really liking the bumper. It's really cheesy but can make some really disgusting plays.

[@Driff97]

10:34 And this is why the Ore Club is the most expensive Power in Smash Run

[@DJ-LD]

That and it can reflect projectiles too.

[@glttched]

the bullet bill item is actually so slept on, it can do DISGUSTING damage for absolutely no reason and with zero effort

[@apollorock3r244]

14:15 I like how you didn’t mention that if you get the defective Hammer with King Dedede, even though he’s swinging his own hammer, it oddly doesn’t attack anyone even if he’s clearly using it. XD

[@frozenfactory04]

But he did on this version of the hammer item which can essentially be said the same either way. Also, idk why you’re busting out laughing about this guy committing the ultimate crime of making a (apparent) mistake.

[@apollorock3r244]

@ I’m more laughing at the idea that Dedede’s own hammer isn’t working despite him clearly using it with the malfunctioning Hammer item. That’s what I’m laughing at.

[@frozenfactory04]

@@apollorock3r244 oooooooohhh. That makes sense.

[@frozenfactory04]

@@apollorock3r244 I’m really sorry about that wild assumption I made. I saw a similar thing happen before and I was just so tired of it. This is embarrassing

[@apollorock3r244]

@ It’s all good. 😊

[@PipesReturns]

Something to note about the Golden Hammer theme is that it can still be fully heard in the game, the full song isn't unused. It's a selectable piece of music on "Other" stages under the name "Power-Up Music - Wrecking Crew"

[@agoaj]

You don't have to commit to an air dodge, if you're in tumble you can Z drop the hammer.

[@gearedworm]

13:23 The hammer timer doesn't run while in hitlag, you can extend it by a lot by hitting a invulnerable player, such as one with the star efect. Convining this method and 1/4 speed you can hear the whole song multiple times.

[@branlex01]

Holy shit Rune Factory 3 OST Thank you so much Im a big fan of the Rune Factory series so i was surprised to hear it

[@buelerus9970]

In case of the Song being played during the golden hammer: you can extend the Play Duration even further by hitting other objects with it. The additional Time per hit always felt like the amount of hitstun inflicted with the hammer, but I dont know for sure. The Extension also applies to the hammer itself, so you can try staying inside a box-shaped arena and put a lot of objects inside, like enemies and soccer balls, and then check on how long it takes for the hammer to finally run out of time.

[@NIX-FLIX]

In all my years of playing this game I had no idea about the squeaky hammer variant, and I always thought that the bat was sometimes arbitrary, but I must’ve been getting really lucky with the projectiles to get Insta KOs

[@Dergy]

I've fiddled in Brawl's code before and found out that both backfires for Lightning have a 5% chance of happening each, meaning 10% chance of backfiring at all. I know it's a different game but I doubt they bothered doing much "item balancing" between games :3 Edit: oh yeah your results are very close lol

[@Brady_Corrin]

Your swing at 16:50 is truly amazing

[@CiromBreeze]

You can't just jumpscare me with Rune Factory 3 music at the start like that

[@nettalie4435]

Being jumpscared by rune factory music was absolutely not something i expected lol Really anyone actually knowing about rune factory is never something i expect

[@serpenthunter64]

Jumpscared by peak Wonderful game series with wonderful music, I'm glad it gets some recognition

[@tsunderefandomer3425]

Also glad it was not just a one off when the Spring theme from 4 plays later in the video.

[@branlex01]

@@CiromBreeze yeah

[@emile_jeanne]

This video was a lot of fun! I knew about the home run bat's reflector but I hadn't seen/noticed R.O.B's animation yet it's really great!

[@MrFlame-zk5cy]

3:30 I would've just said we can show that easily with the fountain in the background

[@TheOGRokma]

Simple. You just x2 the damage they WOULD have dealt. No need to thank me for solving the question😎

[@weldy00]

PK beats cooked up some heater item combos for us today xd I always love watching you create wild and completely unreasonable things like the slow-mo double home run hit

[@Zegaexiron]

Somehow explaining the science behind the items makes them *more* chaotic. I love it.

[@megcheung1532]

Electrode from the pokeball has a chance to just straight up fail to explode

[@robinrai4973]

holy shit the special sword swing in melee is sick

[@deluxe1886]

Fr

[@moosesues8887]

Melee Mewtwos is awesome he spins the beam sword like a blender for the dash attack

[@BrawlerClaws67]

I was not expecting to hear Rune Factory music when I clicked on this video. Nice choice.

[@jokerlovezelda9173]

The dedication to Raquel science and a total of 1k tries instantly earned my sub

[@Kinglamp]

3:19 You know what else is massive

[@GrunkDaMunk]

THE LO-

[@wyatteb1663]

MY MOM

[@EmberTheFlareon3579]

The Great Pyramids

[@GuitarOfTime0116]

​@@wyatteb1663 Damn it, beat me by an hour XD

[@Armelaz]

Imagine if Ninja got a low taper faaaade

[@Oretal]

I appreciate you doing all those tests with the timer and lightning. I can't imagine how long it took ya to do it but thank you for doing it. Thanks to your ball park estimates we got someone to look at the code for more solid info! Great video yo, I really like how the hitting items just flip upside down on slopes. So silly :]

[@ExperienceExplosion]

With the Golden Hammer's music. I remember in Smash 4 3DS, you could go in the frame by frame mode and the music for the hammer wouldn't pause, letting you hear the whole song. Not sure if it's in the Wii U version, but I remember doing that in Smash 3DS and it working. It was a long time ago though, so it may not even work lol

[@RetroPlayer-gma]

It's actually called 'Hold L' but i know what you mean

[@vossboss220]

16:55 this upset me greatly

[@theodoric4270]

I'm glad you mentioned the instant homerun reflector. I've gotten wins online with that. That and the fact that you can z-drop or shield-drop the hammer if and only if you are tumbling must be the most obscure item facts out there.

[@richardbradbury5164]

I don’t feel like quoting, but ALREADY ONE OF THE BEST QUOTES OF THE YEAR WE JUST STARTED FEBRUARY 9:07

[@jabo0190]

These videos are incredible dude! Keep it up :)

[@xxblackkzoruaxx5971]

this one is even more entertaining than the last

[@toastr1255]

15:08 This reminds me of that one video of Wallace (from Wallace and Gromit) swinging a hammer but looped and sped up

[@bonedude666]

Flat Earthers when they realize their balls are round

[@LandonEmma]

I didn’t even know you could use the bullet bill down or up or any other direction besides left or right thank you so much for all this information because I don’t really play smash Bros a lot well really never

[@akarien1395]

For pit's hammer swiging animation ! It's actually a reference to his sprites in kid icarus, back on the nes, the poses are the same, especially in the air, and the "choppy" hammer swinging is like the hammer weapon, which was only available in dungeons, the swinging looked the exact same. Neat !!

[@miihto]

for 150k special can we PRETTY PLEASE WITH A KIRBY ON TOP have a video on optimal or stylish ways to use every item. filthy casuals like me would eat that up 🥺

[@stephenrichter8940]

In the meantime you might enjoy the WhyDo item breakers series

[@CrazyWeridoRH]

You should’ve shown off Wario’s bat swing animation. He throws the bat into his mouth and cranes his neck to swing

[@Umi_______]

OH MY GOD THE RUNE FACTORY 3 MUSIC OMG OMG OMG OMG

[@sototallycool]

I just find the idea of swinging a stick that does absolutely nothing to be hilarious tbh

[@Himbo_JayK]

Thanks for the Rune Factory music. ^^

[@varietychan]

13:48 this wasn't the case in Brawl, where the song would continue

[@Boomblox5896]

Competitive be darned, I love goofing around with items and funny stages. People need to embrace the funny side of Smash more often. I use items and default stage forms when I play with friends and we have a blast.

[@Squirmsss]

Wait a fucking second I knew I felt strangely happy and comforted watching this video, and it hit me, this has rune factory music in it! Wonderful choice 1000/10

[@Wunduck]

These videos are so underrated! :D Keep it up man.

[@mxyzptplk]

i played a Lot of casual smash bros but i never knew Lip's Stick and the Star Rod had ammo! i always just thought they were infinite since they weren't in the "Shooting" section

[@TheAstral4ce]

9:19 11:40 massive you say? And you know what else is massive

[@tinyclover3849]

i've always loved the evil angle the star rod sends at when you throw it, it's been like that since melee. i have so many memories of cheese kills with my brothers from it.

[@jeanpierrevasquez1151]

Watching from Japan while eating my lunch. Kudos and happy setsubun

[@Melonposting]

15:11 Wallace hammering at the speed of sound

[@gradeapasteurizedeggs7714]

4:55 thank you for entertaining me while eating my lunch 🙏

[@asleepystar]

i like how the some of the characters matches the item being talked about

[@Hugelag]

14:27 Pit's (and Dark Pit's) hammer swing is a reference to the original Kid Icarus's mallet.

[@adi_baa]

bro is just casually playing tf2 highlander at the end lmaoooo i love it hell yeah

[@Lulzigi]

I would have liked to see some speculation on why some of the items go what they do. For example: Why does Lip's Stick produce a flower in the target's head? How is that a reference to its home game Panel de Pon?

[@Jintenzo]

The rune factory music jumpscared me lol

[@EliTheWizards-yh8lg]

3:19 6:05 6:34 11:41 you know what else is massive?

[@ayo.2022]

6:08 "Maybe don't use this item directly into the Hero that currently has Bounce active" Tell that to the 9mil GSP wifi player that's desperate to get their hands on the freshly-spawned Assist Trophy

[@UmbralKnight1344]

holy shit energy sphere

[@ayo.2022]

@UmbralKnight1344 feel free to consume me and regain your true form, kind Doomer

[@thunderstar7682]

I'm so glad this vid has bullet bill in it cuz it makes me genuinely angry that no one does the kamikaze strat with it

[@natedawg6755]

Entertaining me while I eat my "I really shouldn't be eating at 10 at night before bed" dinner

[@shadou1234567]

one funny trivia about Lip´s Stick is that one of the few items that is not original to smash, without a stage or character ever participating on smash. Only the item represents its series, Panel the Pon where the fairy Lip uses it to play puzzle games idk. In the west it was adapted to Tetris atack, with yoshi thematic having incredible ost and playable characters, but no mention of the Stick anywhere. Its for me one of the most amusing itens in smash as i don´t know any other item that has survived this long without having a character from the series added, and most people just think its a smash original (to be fair, how its used surely is original)

[@Blazingflare2000]

You missed one imo really important detail with the golden hammer. How long you are able to hover with it is directly tied to how fast you are able to mash A or B. It's really difficult to do at normal speed without a turbo controller, but at 1/2 or 1/4 speed you can easilly mash fast enough to hover for the entire duration of the golden hammer.

[@pikachu-uk1bg]

And of course, the noise is the homerun bat is just satisfying

[@Queen_Vexus]

7:04 I'd say the beam sword is most closely tied to the Z saber from Rockman X 4, 5, and 6 respectively. Each leaves behind a saber like trail, they curve when they hit things, and lightsabers are more about immolation & immediate cauterization after a slice, where a Z saber simply slices things apart lethally. Ironically, in a jedi battle, a Z saber may be the more dangerous option out of the two franchises, both to an untrained wielder and trained one.

[@ihopeyouandicanbefriends]

holy moly u rly committed to figuring out the timer chances. 1000 times???

[@lancelot1685]

"Im just trying to entertain you while youre eating your dinner" Me, who just finished eating dinner while watching this video

[@Baconator2558]

This isn't item related, but seeing footage of the Mario Galaxy stage reminded me of some obscure trivia that I noticed in-game basically at launch, and that's bugged me ever since. On the Mario Galaxy stage, Bowser's Airship in the background has a flag on it. HOWEVER, the flag is missing in the battlefield/omega versions, even though the flagpole is still there.

[@Sansyboi611]

as someone who also takes the game seriously i actually love items and i hate how all my friends always complain when i have them on or pick any stage other than a battlefield or omega legit i just wanna play the game and have fun, and like actually respect the time and effort that the devs put in to make all this stuff in the first place, it just feels so boring and corporate without all the quirky stuff, and at the end of the day it's supposed to be a party game more than it is a fighting game, and that's what i like about it in the first place

[@waynemidnight7454]

How does R.O.B. spin like that without getting tangled up in the wires connecting his base to his back?

[@IAWiseoldman]

game and watch hammer animation fucking cracks me up

[@DexterMontkey]

I had enough time in between episodes to watch all of pkbeats random facts videos

[@cooolbigguy]

How did you know I'm eating lunch?!?!?!?!?!?!? Great video tho, as always

[@sonnitude]

I genuinely didn’t know the bat had a reflector! I wonder if it’s like other reflectors with a “limit” and you could play “Ganon tennis” with it. “First one to die, loses! Ahh!”

[@davispo7550]

I miss WhyDo item breakers...

[@goodhelmetjunior3399]

3:00 Beginning Cutscene of Awakening be like.

[@SoylentGreenMuffins]

Captain Falcon can launch extra stars on a single attack with the Star Rod when he fully loads a smash.

[@asunaxkiritosao6980]

4:51 I’m actually having a 3am snack after playing lethal company 😂

[@xtroyr_5747]

This is my favorite this far and by far

[@Tommy-pv1vh]

5:11 haste II beacon, efficiency V, golden(gold tools have a plus to mining speed) hammer

[@BabushkaKing]

If I remember correctly Captain Falcon's combo with the star rod is unique, sending out more stars than any other character

[@legoferrari14]

One Misfire you failed to mention is the Smart Bomb; occasionally when a Smart Bomb is thrown, it'll make a distinct sound and just bounce without exploding. This is an instance where the Smart Bomb is a dud. Eventually a Dud Smart Bomb will detonate if thrown again after a certain amount of time or if it takes enough damage.

[@shellshock3908]

4:50 i feel called out, i just finished my lunch lmao

[@JustCrazyDK]

10:18 I miss Falcon's old battering animations. In Melee, he pretty much just uses it like a battering ram. With that particular animation, he shoots 3 stars in a scatter shot.

[@markinok.8787]

A thing that always drove me crazy about the beam sword is that robs Dash attack makes it look like makes it look like he's swinging it but there's no hitbox

[@llmkursk8254]

Even if some of the next items are boring, I do like the discussion for fun animations for each character. I would like to see it applied at least to Game & Watch, due to having less frames, and any other trivia ones afterwards.

[@SharpnessSword]

*me eating my dinner, entertained

[@aarontcl4558]

it has made me sad ever since i noticed, beam sword swings having unique animations but not unique hitboxes... peach and rob have big overhead swings but the hitboxes dont anti air the sword just goes through people. im pretty sure it wasnt like that in melee or brawl but i can not test currently

[@Hugelag]

I remember a lot of the tips in other smash games said that different characters had different beam sword lengths and I don't know if that's still true in ultimate.

[@DynamicLemons]

I think it'd be a fun to have a video dedicated to trivia submissions from specifically modders, honestly. Would be interesting, compared to the usual "idk lmao this is just what it looks like" (no shade)

[@yati426]

4:55 Are those SpongeBob shaped nuggets?

[@marcandrebelanger]

I wonder if all item with special effects are doubled or have the same amount of ammo if each Ice Climbers hold or take one at the same time? like if two lightning will be the same or if the power of the hammers are halved?

[@WumpaClock]

I wish the parasol item from Melee returned in Ultimate... Imagine watching Kazuya daintily floating down with a parasol. XD

[@Thecoolguy643]

Glad someones asking the real questions

[@travisowens8905]

if i remember correctly the slowdown effect changes luigi’s grabs and duck hunts smash attack damage. i can’t remember if it is just training mode or the slowing effect in general

[@ADudeWithAChannel]

15:10 reminds me of that clip of wallace hammering

[@thecertifieddoctor]

bro i hopped on this video to decompress after my hl scrims and then you jumpscare me with pl_vigil at the end