Catalina of Motril, Katherine of Aragon's Royal Bed-maker: Secrets of the Tudor Bedchamber

Catalina of Motril was an enslaved servant to Queen Katherine of Aragon, Henry VIII’s first wife. She might have held the key to one of Tudor history’s biggest secrets of the royal bedchamber...
As a royal bed-chamber servant, Catalina would have held vital information about whether Katherine’s first marriage to Prince Arthur Tudor (Henry VIII’s brother) was consummated - a crucial detail in Henry VIII’s plans to divorce Katherine and marry Anne Boleyn. Catalina might have held the key to one of Tudor history’s biggest secrets of the royal bedchamber.
Born in Motril, Granada, a Muslim territory until 1492, Catalina was likely to have been enslaved after the Reconquista (Reconquest) of Granada. It's possible she was of North African heritage and Muslim although it’s likely she he may have converted to Christinaity on entering Katherine’s service. Catalina may not have been her real name. She may have been named after her royal mistress, La infanta Catalina (Katherine of Aragon).
Katherine of Aragon arrived in England in 1501 for her marriage to Prince Arthur. Two ‘esclaves’ (slaves) were recorded as being part of Katherine’s large Spanish entourage. Catalina was likely one of them although, once in England, Catalina’s status as a slave would be unclear. She would have been one of several people of colour at the Tudor court. (John Blanke, a Black Tudor musician was present at court from 1507).
Her role as Katherine’s bed-chamber servant meant she would have prepared the royal bed for Katherine’s marriages to Arthur and Henry, as well as attending to Katherine on the eve of her coronation whilst staying at the Tower of London.
Catalina’s position meant she would have been one of a handful of people who would know if the marriage to Prince Arthur was consummated.
At some point, Catalina married Oviedo, a crossbow maker, had two daughters and returned to Motril. We don’t know what happened to Catalina after 1531. She is one of history's forgotton witnesses but it’s clear she led a remarkable life.
Read more about Catalina’s story: www.hrp.org.uk/tower-of-londo...
Listen to Catalina’s story on our Outlier’s historical fiction podcast: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast...
Further reading
For more information about Catalina of Motril and other people of colour in the Tudor period, please refer to the following books:
Black Tudors: The Untold Story by Miranda Kaufmann (London, 2019)
Lauren Johnson, ‘Catalina of Motril’, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (October 2019)
Black and British: A Forgotten History by David Olusoga (London, 2016)
Staying Power: The History of Black People in Britain by Peter Fryer (London, 2018)
Special thanks to Hever Castle.
Cast
Storyteller: Nadia Nadif
Catalina of Motril: Elle Zahrouni
Anne Boleyn: Erin Charteris
Catherine of Aragon: Claudia Strange
Arthur Tudor: Lawrence Palmer
Henry VIII: Edward Taylor
Director: Matt Oliver
DP: Jake Davies
Focus: Andreea Gruioniu
Sound: Frank Maclaren
Music: Will Stapleton
Producer: Claudia Strange
Script Editor: Nadja Noel
Production Manager: Steve Goggin
Film Editor: Matt Oliver
Dubbing Mixer/Sound Design: Matt Alani
Curatorial advisors:
Dr Charles Farrris, Curator and Public Historian, Historic Royal Palaces
Dr Misha Ewen, Curator for Inclusive History, Historic Royal Palaces
Image Credits
Catherine of Aragon (1485-1536) c.1550-99 Royal Collection Trust, attributed to the British School, 16th century.
Arthur, Prince of Wales (1486-1502) c. 1500, Royal Collection Trust, British School, 16th century.
Queen Mary I, by Master John (active 1544-1545), National Portrait Gallery, London.
by Master John

[@scott6828]

Absolutely fascinating!! I love the stories about normal, average people behind famous historical figures!!

[@whotelakecity2001]

She may not have a title, but she is not average!

[@Chipoo88]

I firmly believe the marriage between Arthur and Katharine was not consumated. Primarily because she would have genuinely believed in eternal damnation had she obtained her second marriage and the dispensation required on a lie. Also, they were not yet expected to consummate their marriage at 15/16 and there was no particular rush at the time. Arthur was also said to have been a sickly boy, slight in stature and the fact that Katharine recovered from the same illness and he died, might also shed light on his overall health.

[@User14816]

I agree. She was,by all accounts, a very pious lady.

[@melenatorr]

@@User14816 There's also the fact that it was ever a question to begin with: In most cases of royal marriages, it's very clear if and/or when a marriage has been consummated - definitely it was the case with Catherine's brother Juan and Margaret of Austria; her sister Juana and Philip the Handsome; her sisters Isabel and Maria and their marriages in Portugal. In the case of Isabel the Catholic's half-brother Enrique IV of Castile, there was humiliating comment on the lack of consummation in both his marriages. Arthur was heir to a throne that was still on a rocky foundation; the fewer doubts about his ability in all areas, the better. That there was ever a question, even from the start of the marriage indicates that non-consummation was a possibility that was hoped to be resolved later. Unfortunately, Arthur died.

[@AnitaAnneLloyd]

And the irony is that in the end that that Katharine feared became true. Katharine of Aragon was indeed damned. Damned to a sad and lonely life in her second marriage, because King Henry believed her first marriage was consumated with his brother, Arthur. Poor woman. She was a pawn and thrown away, because of a man’s lust.

[@GaelinW]

@@AnitaAnneLloyd - I doubt Henry truly believed her previous marriage was consummated. They were married for 20+ years and the issue never came up until he wanted out. Issues with his other wives conveniently didn't come up till he wanted out as well. Yes, it is sad that she ended up alone, separated from the one child who survived. But at the time almost all women were disposable pawns.

[@Sisterfifi]

Yes, I agree Katherine was very pious, but the position she found herself after Arthur’s death in a strange land could have led to a white lie. If she had been allowed to go back to Spain after Arthur’s death this situation would not have happened, but of course Henry VII would not allow that as he would lose the dowry she brought.

[@cherieestbien1902]

The servants must have had a huge amount of knowledge. God forbid they ever leaked their secrets. It could have cost them their lives.

[@dafluehr]

A possibility that wasn’t mentioned is that her testimony indicated that the marriage between Arthur and Catherine was consummated and that the Spanish agents destroyed the record as a result.

[@TheBreechie]

Given how well diplomats documented things, I think we would know this

[@gloriamontgomery6900]

Arthur said the next morning “Give me a cup of wine I was 3 times last night in the midst of Spain”. Meaning he’d had sex 3 times with Catherine. He could just have been making it up, bragging. Or it could have happened

[@suepem]

Since the divorce went ahead and Catelinas testimony was pivotal can we not assume they consummated the marriage?

[@roseg1333]

I think it was the Bolyns that made her leave or killed her. They had a lot ridding on this

[@AdamantErinyes]

​@@gloriamontgomery6900 It's more likely that as a 15-year-old who had been extremely sheltered his entire life, he didn't know what he was talking about and was just trying to brag. Henry VII was known to be extremely puritanical about sex and his sons were kept pretty ignorant of it for as long as possible.

[@sarahughes6998]

the title is misleading. the suggestion is that we will find out details about Katherine's bedchamber and Tudor court traditions, but nothing was revealed. Basically, Catalina knew nothing, or said nothing, we know nothing, and she is a red herring because neither she, nor the author of this video know anything about Tutor court life that we have not already heard.

[@user-ji9jd1gq9z]

Ι really believe that the marriage was not consummated, because Katherine was deeply religious, an ardent Catholic, and she would not lie. She was interested in saving her soul and be "clean" in the eyes of God.

[@person650]

Im not saying she did or didn't lie but the channel History calling points out that while yes Catherine is unlikely to have lied she had motive to do so as she could have beileved that lying about her relationship with Arthur was the lesser or two evils if it would save Henry's soul and prevent him from contracting another bigamous marrige. She also believed in the power of confession so maybe she though she could lie about it in public and then apologize privately to God through her confessor.

[@atulh9172]

So true

[@hannehanskov7560]

If she had said clearly no then there wouldnt have been an issue to begin with. I think she said yes ,but henry ,eager to get his way,made it sound like there were doubts and the pope then went with it ,to let the spanish catholic royals keep their place at the english court.

[@user-ji9jd1gq9z]

@@hannehanskov7560 Yes, you have a point !

[@This1sS0Stup1d]

There were two papal dispensations created, one if the marriage had been consummated, and one if it hadn’t. It only became a concern when Henry VIII started wanted to divorce Catherine (which wasn’t that uncommon among the elite when a male heir couldn’t be produced).

[@welshblush]

These stories are so incredibly well produced. I'm enjoying a new depth of understanding on the better-known figures and a fascinating introduction to the lesser-known ones. Can't wait for the next one!

[@hifinsword]

At the 3:33 mark the "ATTENDING TO SECRET OR PRIVATE SERVICE" could easily have referred to Catherine's toilet functions. Since the marriage to Henry VIII seems to be one of affection for 20 years, I have no doubt there was a lot of pressure by both Heny and Katherine of Aragon on Catalina to deny any consummation of Katherine's marriage with Arthur. The Spanish were EXPERTS at getting any confessions, false or otherwise. Remember the Spanish Inquisition? The lack of a confession from Catalina would tell me that she did not admit what the Spanish would have wanted to hear. The consummation of Katheine's marriage to Arthur would have invalidated Henry's marriage to his sister-in-law, exactly the opposite of what the Spanish would have wanted. Was Catalina's silence on the consummation the truth, or just loyalty to Katherine? We will never know.

[@camilled.8852]

Regardless whether Katherine of Aragon's marriage with Arthur was consummated or not, Henry agreeing to marry her should be a ground for estoppel. He cannot claim otherwise after long years of marriage with her just so he could conveniently marry his mistress. If his act was allowed by the Pope, it would be a dangerous precedent for anyone who wished to get out of a marriage they willingly agreed to enter.

[@cara7780]

Absolutely love this video! What a fascinating character to pull out of history and shine a light on. More videos like this and the Sir Walter Raleigh one please HRP!

[@evamaria1441]

First, let me say THANK YOU for making the proper ENG subtitle here, it means a lot to non-native speaker who lack listening skill like me. Now I can enjoy this fascinating story while google the meaning of each word(plus more info about some historical figures that got mentioned in the video) Thank you very very much, I love every parts of this!

[@cherylb2008]

Katherine was devoted to praying and God. I don’t believe she consummated first marriage. Henry was king ( it’s good to be the king) He broke traditional norms and he changed the rules for his benefit. Poor Queen Katherine was cheated and placed in emotional agony. Treated cruelly. I really like the way you shine a light on Catalina. Thank you

[@Georgeanne17]

Rest In Peace Catalina of Mitrol.

[@rncine]

Catherine of Aragon was pregnant 6x with king Henry so you would think having been with Prince Arthur for 5 months, she would have gotten pregnant if consummated. She was also Very, Very religious and I doubt very much she was capable of lying unless she wanted to go to hell.

[@kelrogers8480]

She was quite capable of lying if it was to protect her daughter Mary's right to the throne. And I'm sure she could have very easily convinced herself she had God's permission to do so.

[@rncine]

@@kelrogers8480 You didn’t understand what I said, with being with Prince Arthur for 5 months she very well would have been pregnant, by the time he died.

[@sophiejones3554]

Not if Arthur was shooting blanks, which was a distinct possibility given how often he had been ill. The argument that she wouldn't have lied because of being religious is just silly: her child's life was on the line.

[@vampiraJ]

Catherine also fasted a lot which may have lead to her not being able to be pregnant, or keep a full term pregnancy.

[@peachygal4153]

She was very ill with the sweating sickness the same time as Arthur, although she survived, which was rare. The mortality rate was very high. Few survived. So, she could have been pregnant and miscarried or had a stillbirth from being so ill. Young girls with their first pregnancy often do not show until they around 6 months, especially in those gowns. Plus, in that time period, no pregnancy tests. if a young woman was known to have irregular periods, (very common in young teen girls who had not had their menses long) pregnancies often were not announced util she felt quickening which would be proof she was pregnant. Plus, Arthur and she were in Wales when they became ill. They had been sent there to live soon after they married as the Prince and Princess of Wales. So, they were very remote from Arthur's family.

[@ardiffley-zipkin9539]

I saw a few documentaries about Henry’s “great matter “ or the divorce discussing that certain letters between Anne & Henry were found in the Vatican Library. Henry had requested an annulment from the Pope and documents were sent to Rome. I wonder if any other papers remain in that library. Interesting video.

[@pioneercynthia1]

I've seen photographs of Henry's letters to Anne (hers have vanished) that are kept in the Vatican library, so there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that oodles more documents are available. The Church is a better record keeper than even the Mormons. There's been some chatter about the Vatican digitizing the library's contents for easier access to scholars, but I haven't looked into it recently. You might want to see if that project has come to fruition!

[@ktb183]

One thing to point out is, that during the Califat of Cordoba, and Al Andalús, Christians, Muslims and Jews lived side by side. There is no reason to believe that someone, by the mere fact of having lived/being born in Motril, would have been a Muslim.

[@claudia272]

Henry was a liar and a hypocrite and a narcissist and did just that to get his way in everything in his sick life to marry Anne regardless of ruining Catherine’s reputation.

[@laikanbarth]

I don’t know who the lady is who is telling the story but I love her accent. I like how she makes the story so suspenseful. I’ve heard this story a hundred times but I had no idea about Catalina. Very interesting and I learned something new.

[@misslizard1991]

While yes Catherine was extremely religious however from a very young age she had to be told it was her duty to marry for an allegiance with England. Some people may believe this lady was incapable of lying however I believe it was entirely possible for her to do everything to lie about possibly consummating her marriage with Arthur. She needed to secure England as it was her 'duty' from very young age and so many years had been put into this arrangement. She had 2 options which was either she was carrying Arthur's baby or she was still a virgin and had to try and secure Henry VIII as her husband as he was the next in line for throne.

[@cce8632]

I agree 💯. Well said.

[@maearcher4721]

While I like the story, but the visuals are horribly out of timeline. Catherine with Arthur wears clothes of 1520s, gable hood's front is 1520s(its unsplit back is certainly not 1520s). In bedroom hangs Tudor portrait from early 1540s. Young prince Henry-portrayed by adult man, when he was not yet 12 when his brother died! And actually there are also some mistake in the story.Actually, pope's dispensation would have covered the marriage to his brother, but it was certainly easier to get the dispensation if wasn't consumated marriage. They needed dispensation anyway, because they were distant cousins. Henry actually never wanted divorce, he wanted annulment. That is why Church of England even nowadays is against divorce! And don't get me started upon Catherine of Motril's gable hood/flat hood mixture, although nice dresses! On her, not on Anne Boleyn.

[@hollywoodvideos82]

Absolutely intriguing! I wish I was a fly on the wall in Hampton Court when everything was going on. I'd be flying door to door and then I'd have my "fly buddies" evesdrop where I can't be at the moment cause I'm busy being nosy at another location. OMG I wish I knew everything about The Tudors History. I'm a history buff as well as a huge fan of the Tudors Dynasty. All of Henry's wives are intriguing but Anne Boleyn is more fascinating to me, and their daughter Queen Elizabeth the First. Amazing story. Thank you!🌹

[@ralang999]

Andalusiyyun at the Tudor court! Great work HRP!

[@blorac9869]

Enjoyed, TYVM!

[@savvydora]

This is fascinating history. I wonder how a slave girl may have ended up being part of a royal person’s retinue. Wish we knew more about Catalina.

[@mediocremaiden8883]

She was most likely taken in as a "Ward of The Queen" and her parents flocked to the Christian side early on in the war, she was orphaned, Baptised in the new Only Religion Allowed (Catholicism) even tho Isabella and Ferdinand straight up lied anyhow and to ensure her safety made damn well she knew her Catechisms and became a Royal Ward of The Catholic Monarchs like hundreds of children.

[@nancyM1313]

Tfsharing, never heard of Catalina of Motril. What she could have told us about 💫👑Catherine of Aragorn 💫 Very nice narration.

[@A_X28]

Love Nadia's relating history- there is something about her story telling. Most enchanting .

[@shirahime23]

Fascinating to find out that the character of Lina de Cordonnes in The Spanish Princess in inspired by Catalina.

[@mooseymcflurffycat3018]

And they both married their Oviedo!!! 😊❤

[@shirahime23]

@@mooseymcflurffycat3018 They did indeed! :)

[@scarletmoon.]

I immediately thought of her when I saw the title of this video

[@SuperParatech]

Very well presented. Enjoyable

[@user-gp5wl7xr8h]

LOVE THIS VIDEO!

[@SG-1-GRC]

Fascinating. I wonder how historical records are available to track her movements. So often we don't know anything at all about people like her. We know that such a role might have existed but we don't have the name of the person or know anything about them. History is more real to me when it's about those who might be dismissed as unimportant or insignificant because that's what most of us are perceived as.

[@aaronobryan9715]

Love this…Thank You

[@TurquoiseTalks]

Her majesty queen Katherine the one woman that was born and raised to be a true queen.

[@DivaViews]

What happened to the practice of checking the sheets after the deed? The sheets presented at the divorce trial could have been anyone else's.

[@radguurl]

Not every virigin bleeds, as the hymen can be broken way before due to activities like horse riding and other heavy physical activity. Catherine loved riding and hunting, so she could have conceivably broken her hymen before having sex.

[@pioneercynthia1]

​@@radguurl Yes, but there are many ways to bloody the sheets of a newly married couple. They often hung the sheets from the windows as "proof" of their daughter's virginity (this is still happening in some communities), and then packed them away in case such proof was needed later.

[@cynthiakeller5954]

Loved your story telling. Catalina and Katherine of Aragon were fascinating women. TY for bringing Catalina, Katherine's humble servant to life. Very well done.

[@maearcher4721]

Imo neither Catherine nor Arthur lied. Arthur simply used clever word-play to make people assume that marriage was consumated(without actually lying) so that people would leave his bride be. There was big fiasco upon Catherine's arrival and it left her greatly humiliated. She'd be bunch of nerves because of it. (And there was another fiasco after they wed also.) Arthur was not the type who would push the girl to sex, and hecontinued being gallant in months after the wedding.He was understanding and nice to his bride. But he wasn't sick. It was actually Catherine, who upon arrival to England started to experienced first attacks of Malaria, which would then plague her for several more years. It might have made her feel less at ease with Arthur and delay them getting closer. But that malaria is not talked about! Even though I am fan of Catherine, and believe her, her attendants lied about Arthur's health big time! That is easily proven and it irritates me to no end because it gives haters now ammunition. Arthur was very busy in Wales, traveling around, and certainly not on his deadbed until just few days before he died. Sweating Sickness can kill even completely healthy person and it nearly killed Catherine too! Certainly Arthur was not head shorter than Catherine, meaning all the testimonies which said he was during Great Matter are lies! Maybe Catalina of Motril refused to lie about Arthur's supposed horrible health, and that is why we never heard what was her testimony. Spanish decided that Arthur simply being nice to his bride, was not good enough! No, he had to be deadly ill! The most sick person you've ever seen! Walking corpse! And an impotent! What else could we make up to make him look bad? Oh, let's make him freekishly short! Shorter than even Catehrine who herself was pretty short! If he was head shorter than Catherine, he'd have to be a dwarf! And yet he was described as tall for his age by foreign ambassador. Which makes more sense, since his parents were both pretty tall.

[@carterbentonjr399]

Plus you have to look at his maternal grandfather Edward IIII and his brothers. They were between 6'1 to 6'5, with the exception of Richard III. He was considered a runt even though in my personal opinion he was short of 6ft. The York branch was very tall like the Lancaster and Beaufort branch plus add in the Tudors in particular Arthur and Henry VIII especially Henry was was compared to his maternal grandfather in looks even though Henry had red gold hair and his grandfather flax golden blond hair.

[@maearcher4721]

@@carterbentonjr399 I've seen documentary about Richard's remains . He actually wasn't hunchback per say, but he had rather severe case of scoliosis(twisted spine), and though it didn't prevent him from being good warrior, it made him several inches shorter than he would be if he didn't suffer from it. Henry VII too was on tall side, Elizabeth of York too, so it makes sense that most of their children were tall or on tall side. As for the rest of their looks, don't trust much modern biographers. They either like to interpret the period descriptions without any deeper research into it, and often are not even aware that golden at the time didn't mean what we consider blond, but strawberry blond. Or they straight up made up hair colour or eye colour or height of person. Or use source which got it wrong the first time. Like if they are not directly quoting the period description, word by word, don't trust it at all. I know that Henry VIII had red hair, it's possible his father too was representation of red rose literally and that Yorks more often had lighter strawberry blond to light red hair(Which Elizabeth of York had). If Edward IV had it too, idk. I am not doing that much research into War of Roses. I am more focused on 1490+ in Tudor history.

[@susanc4622]

The phrase “thoroughly examined” has very unpleasant connotations. I hope that she didn’t die under torture.

[@ivyrose779]

I love this unique POV!!!

[@aboleynn]

More please💗💗

[@tarot_esoterica_with_erin]

Once upon a time I thought she wouldn't lie because it would be a sin but then I read an article on THE TUDOR ENTHUSIAST website which had me rethink that. Some of the arguments for her having lied - to protect Mary's claim to the throne and to protect Catherine's position as Queen "ordained by God". I also read elsewhere Thomas More had said lying was OK (not a sin?) If it was to protect another (perhaps their soul. It was quite some time ago), and wouldn't stopping Henry from sinning by ending their marriage protect his soul? Oh and her apparently starting to wear a hair shirt around that time. Circumstantial, but I think Catherine & Arthur consummated their marriage at some time.

[@joycemarie9702]

They absolutely consummated their marriage! They both knew it was their duty to produce heirs! Arthur would have known his father Henry Vll was the first Tudor King and needed to produce heirs immediately and many of them. Carherine of Aragon was brought up knowing her main duty was to get pregnant as soon as possible! They had been betrothed from a young age, she was already considered a woman by the time she left Spain to get married! They absolutely consummated the marriage!

[@samantha953]

She would have been questioned before a betrothal to Henry was made and I don’t think she would risk her soul lying or her future children’s claim by entering an illegitimate marriage.

[@tarot_esoterica_with_erin]

@@joycemarie9702 agreed

[@tarot_esoterica_with_erin]

@@samantha953 makes sense

[@peachygal4153]

Plus the pope had given them a dispensation so Katharine would have been incensed that Henry claimed their marriage was not valid because she had been married to his brother. by the time she married Henry it had been 8 years, so in her mind it had been so long she was "a maid" again.

[@c.s.7266]

As much as I tend to romanticize this period of time it was no picnic being a woman...lol

[@williamsullivan3702]

My mother is Portuguese she did a DNA test apparently North African DNA is found alot on the Iberian peninsula

[@pioneercynthia1]

Since the Muslim caliphate expanded across North Africa and into the Iberian peninsula, this is very true. Some people think Catalina should be black, because she was from North Africa, but that's just not very likely.

[@keithrose6931]

Some people play the "if they are from Africa they must be negros " which is absolutely ridiculous. Same goes for the "black" roman emperor they keep banging on about.

[@pioneercynthia1]

@@keithrose6931 Exactly. It's the same thing with Cleopatra being assumed as Black. The Ptolemaic dynasty wasn't even from Africa, but Greece.

[@keithrose6931]

@@pioneercynthia1 Very true !

[@xr6lad]

@@pioneercynthia1100%. North Africa doesn’t mean ‘person of colour’. It actually disappointed me as it seem they were so desperate to virtual signal on this one. Olive skin is not ‘a person of colour’ and I know most olive skin people would be insulted. The fact she lived in Granada she may simply have been a Spanish Muslim.

[@Renfair333]

This is fascinating as the fact that her testimony wasn't recorded hints that her answers were inconvenient for CoA's case. On a seperate note, In the name of historical reliability, I would like to see more evidence that she was an enslaved "Moor" before that claim is assumed true; quite a lot of licence is being taken with scant proof, IMO.

[@ananicolau5747]

Yes, me too. I find it at bit hard to believe because for one thing Granada had christians (and jews) living there besides moors, second I do not recall that any enslavement occurred after the conquest, actually the terms of surrender were carefully laid; and although serfs were a reality there as elsewhere in Europe at the time they were not slaves. Finally I find it hard to believe that, of all the women serfs in the household a non catholic would be chosen to accompany the daughter of Isabel the Catholic Queen…

[@lebou9540]

She may have passed away before she was able to give testimony.

[@hermione9445]

Its an attempt by the so called historian to bring up the race card ..Every chance they get ..

[@wplains]

@@ananicolau5747 yes I agree with you. But modern people like to cast the “victim” mentality over the past with no proof whatsoever.

[@sabrina1380m]

​@@ananicolau5747 she converted before accompanying CoA Slavery was present in Spain at that time not in England though

[@mediocremaiden8883]

Omg Oviedo...Lina! 😲 That's who the characters in the Starz miniseries Spanish Princess were based on..

[@nranderson778]

I feel like five months married is a long time to not have consummated a wedding. But, I also feel like once Henry accepted and married her he shouldn’t have tried to question it after so many years with her. That was just an excuse to get out of the marriage.

[@jonesnori]

It was common to wait if the bride had not yet gone through puberty, but we don't know if that was the case with Catherine. She was 15 when they married, and puberty tended to be later in those days, but she was also royal and well-fed and cared for. Who knows?

[@playnicechannel]

Catherine an obedient Catholic was free to remarry. The specific passages used to harangue both Catherine of Aragon and Pope Clement were not ecclesiastically relevant. Though Henry’s delegation was formidable. Clement was known to be focused on his role as the Bishop of Rome in addition to commissioning some of the greatest works of art of the age from Raphael, Michelangelo, Cellini he also stopped the persecution of Jews by the inquisition. The REAL problem Henry had was two fold, one Catherine was the niece of the Holy Roman Emperor Charles who was in effect in control of Rome, also he’d been notably happily married over 25 years as documented to the French Court, the Spanish Court etc. He was a quick learner though, after the Kings great matter had dragged on beyond tolerance, he figured out in the future why play by the rules. Simply have manufactured charges brought, agree to them and as sovereign your word is incontestable. Anne Boleyn and poor Katherine Howard were most certainly executed on pure lies and gossip. The only one of the six who really wound up with a great life was Anne of Cleves…. Thank her lucky stars for being unattractive. She died a rich old woman of great age.😊😊😊👍👍🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

[@ellenyoung8283]

I think Anne was 43 years of age when she died.

[@pioneercynthia1]

I don't think she was ugly at all. I just think Henry was a picky jackass.

[@PINKTOES5150]

How how I love learning about the Tudors

[@juliahenderson9421]

Incredible, i never knew about Catalina, i think she would said the marriage was not consumated, because it wasn't. I look forward to more of your videos

[@mrsbrightsidern]

I think it's very likely that *something* happened between Arthur and Katherine and likely it was sex. A and K were married for some months and living in their own household. It would be more unlikely that they hadnt consummated thier marriage. The dispensation, however, clears both the idea that she was still a maid AND the idea that she was not thereby clearing her and making her free to marry H8 regardless. This is why H8 had such a hard time getting an annulment. The Pope, as a direct line to God, made the decision that their marriage was not only legal but granted and upheld by God. Also Katherine was not the first bride to be sent to the brother after her husband's death. While I love H8, his desire for an annulment had nothing to do with Katherine's maidhood and everything to do with his obsession with what he cannot have. However the issue with A and K made it possible to bring an annulment up. H8 got "smarter" in later years and just had women set aside for "adultery" and lies.

[@b.walker5955]

Curious when the AIRING OF DIRTY LAUNDRY practice began? Before or after this era?

[@here_we_go_again2571]

Long before the Tudor era. Some people lie, regardless of their religious upbringing.

[@judyperri9496]

I think the only way she would know if that marriage was consummated would require her witnessing it In pretty sure that never happened

[@YeshuaKingMessiah]

Um of course it often did Servants were nobodies. Invisible and inconsequential. They were probably IN the bed half the time. Perverted, all of them.

[@naimabrenkman2252]

The picture shown is not Mary 1. That was Elisabeth 1.

[@susangavaghan]

I think that it is highly probable that Katherine's marriage to Arthur was consummated. If she did lie about this, first in order to marry Henry and secondly in order to protect her daughter, this would have been entirely understandable. doubt Catalina did know the truth but I believe would have been loyal to Katherine whatever the truth was.

[@DarrenMalin]

Yes any one that thinks two teenages in bed together legally married would not get it on just do not know teenagers :)

[@Lolibeth]

@@DarrenMalin Catherine was also devoted to her duty as a royal princess and queen and that would mean doing her part of making a marriage

[@graphiquejack]

This was very interesting. I believe if she was questioned, she probably felt obligated to tell the truth, after all, she was enslaved before and couldn't really trust that she wouldn't be again now that she was back in Spain. And if there's no record, it's either because 1. she wasn't found (which seems unlikely unless she had died before they could speak to her) 2. possibly something relatively ordinary happened to it like it being destroyed accidentally in a fire or just being lost, or 3. perhaps it was destroyed because her testimony was damaging to Katherine's reputation. If she said Katherine was definitely a virgin during her marriage to Arthur, Charles would have used that as evidence against Henry, so I think if she was questioned, then she probably revealed Katherine and Arthur slept together. I think that's the most logical conclusion, to be honest, because they were both old enough to have sex, they were expected and basically obligated to have sex and there's no reason to suppose that either of them were unable to have sex until they both became sick. I believe that they were recorded as sleeping in the same bed at least eight times, and Arthur allegedly bragged about losing his virginity to his male servants. As for Katherine lying, well, what else could she do? At the time, she was still young and probably told to lie to better her marriage prospects to Henry or another foreign prince. Once the die was cast, she could hardly go back and say it wasn't true, when it would not only be deeply embarrassing but her status as well as her daughter's depended on sticking to the lie. Perhaps her belief that God ordained her to be Queen and the dispensation from the Pope were enough reason for her to live with the lie, despite her piety. She could always ask for God's forgiveness later. In the end, I personally don't think it really even matters whether Arthur and Katherine slept together or not. The Pope issued a dispensation and Henry's reasons for breaking it were flimsy, both because it was quibbling on some wording in the document and because the Bible actually says in another passage, inconveniently for Henry, that a man should actually marry his brother's widow... so there is no 'divine law' that conclusively says what you should do regarding marrying your brother's widow or not. On Henry's side, though, was his real need to avoid civil war and try to have a male heir, and Katherine did herself and Mary no favours by refusing to budge, even though I can sympathise and understand her position. She would have been wiser to just accept an annulment and retire to a nunnery, keeping Mary in the line of succession. True, Anne may have had a male heir that would prevent Mary from succeeding, but it still would have been a less traumatic life for Mary. As for Anne, she was stuck, too. She had no interest in being any man's mistress and even when she rejected Henry he refused to give her up. I don't believe she 'schemed' to make him marry her... it's only with hindsight that we know that that's what he decided to do. Once he proposed, her only options were to accept or to retire to a nunnery herself, because Henry was certainly never going to let her marry someone else. Once she accepted, she was 'all in' and an active agent in the 'Great Matter' but I don't believe she set out to entrap Henry.

[@atulh9172]

She was not a lady to lie for any position or power. She was a pious woman. She was a legal heir to the Kingdom after Aurther but she did not demand anything. That speaks volumes about her.

[@miguelsaavedramaresca4126]

An English documentary that talks about something related to the history of Spain.... Calculation that between 90-100% will be false

[@LindaLinda80Linda]

Certainly Henry VII had Catherine examined before he would allow Henry his son and now heir, to marry her. Since Arthur was only 15 at the time of their marriage it is perfectly plausible he was nervous and wanted to wait. He was always a sickly boy, even as a child. He might have had problems with impotency.

[@maearcher4721]

Arthur was never sickly child, that is myth spread by Catherine's attendants. But all they say about his health is actually lie. I am big fan of Catherine and did lot of research into the matter and my conclusion is fallowing-Neither Catherine nor Arthur lied. Arthur was just nice and wanted to know his bride before consumating the marriage. There was a big fiasco happening after Catherine arrived, that is now brushed over as unimportant, but would be very humiliating for Catherine personally. She would be bundle of nerves on her wedding night due to this. Arthur was by all accounts nice and gallant. He'd not push his bride into sex until she was ready. So he used clever wordplay to make people think they consumated the marriage, without actually lying. So that they'd leave his bride be. And he continued being this nice, in months that fallowed. By all accounts he was very busy in Wales and certainly not on his deadbed until last few days of his life. So I trust Catherine, but not people she was surrounded by.

[@michaelablair4689]

@@maearcher4721 what happened?? I don’t think I’ve heard this before

[@hannahhester8376]

Examined? Um, there is literally no way to "examine" a girl to see if she's a virgin or not.

[@LindaLinda80Linda]

@@hannahhester8376 One word. Hymen. All women are different but generally if the hymen is intact, she is a virgin. But I respect your certainty.

[@maearcher4721]

@@michaelablair4689 Arthur's Latin was described by ambassador as good and everybody else had no trouble comunicating, despite various accents to Latin. During crusades etc. They managed. But Catherine and Arthur could not comunicate in Latin. Why? Well, since Arthur's pronounciation was fine, it must have been Catherine's who was bad. She could understand, but her pronounication was probably horrible. She was actually good in languages overall, but her Latin Tudor despite being italian, has needed to be fired a long time ago. Sadly, while Catherine surpassed her mother in Latin, Isabella's skill was low to begin with and not good enough to hear that her daughter's Latin was not good. Or at least not a good teacher. Or he focused too much on Ancient Latin(and its written sources) and not on 15/16th century version. So Catherine arrived to England speaking Latin poorly. That by itself was humiliating her greatly and she had to use others to relay her answers. (She eventually learned Latin properly but at 1501, most likely it was bad. English didn't blame her but she must have felt horrible. ) But it was also told prior to English royals that Catherine made great advancement in French. But she only started to learn French after late 1497(she also spent half of 1501 traveling) and in English court French was nearly as 2nd native tongue for lots of nobles and to royalty. So big portion of them spoke it fluently. She already got humiliated in Latin and probably didn't dare to use her French, doubting herself. That is only reason I could think of for not switching to French. So actually i think, that Catherine after arrival, realising she has been lied to about how good her Latin is, would burst into tears after she retired to her chambers and would feel really bad, doubting herself etc. So imo it was a fiasco. And another was yet to happen. That was about her parents 'allowing or not allowing' the part of dowry to be handed to English side. In letter to Puebla they said dowry could be immediately handed over(and he knew per English customs it'd be preferable to do so), but they actually didn't mean plates etc, things they expected Catherine to use. Problem was that used items were loosing value(you know scratches in metal etc, fabric getting worn) and would eventually not get accepted for original value by English King, if he would even wish to accept them at all. Puebla has been warning his masters against this, yet has been ignored and it became real issue during Catherine's dowager years. But in 1501 after wedding, Henry VII tried to take these items(because ambassador told him it was ok), only to be told no by Catherine's entourage, who had different instructions given by Spanish royals. English way was handing it over immediately. Not Spanish aparently, though I still don't understand exactly the logic behind this, and the insisting of not fallowing English customs while in England. Henry VII actually went to apologize to Catherine for the misunderstanding. I presume she could understand Latin, because there is no mention of him using translator while speaking to her. I don't think she could understand complicated explanation and apology in French yet, so probably he spoke to her in Latin.

[@ChickaIva]

This would make a great movie.

[@emilyb4702]

What gets me is that if they were being religious, a man marrying his brothers widow was the Righteous thing to do! Deuteronomy 25:5-6 (NIV) "5 If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband’s brother shall take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her. 6 The first son she bears shall carry on the name of the dead brother so that his name will not be blotted out from Israel." It was Henry VIII's literal God-given duty to marry Katherine and impregnate her with a boy and name him Arthur! I always wondered, for such a pious woman, why Katherine didn't use this and the several other similar passages as her defense? I think it speaks volumes about the power hording state of those in charge of religion in that day that such an educated woman, daughter of 2 reigning monarchs, wife to 2 others, queen, deeply religious, desperate to hold on to all that was rightfully hers; didn't even know about the clear key to shutting down her opponents.

[@Sarmatae1]

I feel like the directors forgot to tell their narrator that they would be filming with dual cameras. It's so bizarre. I thought she was blind at first. And they LEFT it that way during the editing process. Yikes.

[@Fizzwhizz28]

Is Catalina “LINA” from the series “The Spanish Princess ?

[@Fizzwhizz28]

Ahh. If I waited a few more minutes it answers this for me when it says who her husband was 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@Julieta-bh1di]

I'm on the fence between whenether arthur and catherine did or did not consumate the marriage,they were young,just fifteen when they first met and married and arthur was sheltered and did not have much contact with girls or was able to learn,but maybe they did beacuse they felt pressured or they knew that their could be like rumors or like gossip,but i'm on the fence.

[@michellelambert8729]

I think that Catalina was in a situation no one would envy. I doubt she made it past 1531ad.

[@xr6lad]

Hate to break it to the virtual signallers. Being North African does not mean you are off colour, the woman in the video is hardly what I define a person of colour, and why wouldn’t she has been a Spanish Muslim anyway?

[@gerardsheridan5525]

'a person of colour'? Why such a description after so many years? Historical revision?

[@jamiemayes8]

I'm sure she told someone..

[@mc6354]

This is crammed with so many inaccuracies! The reasoning is so flawed, so superficial. Very little of what she says stands up to scrutiny besides some dates…It is all conjecture.

[@angelacraw2907]

Very interesting video.

[@AlexandraWolf-ql6bi]

I believe that Katherine and Arthur consummated their marriage. But her only way out of her poverty in England was to marry Henry and so she told Henry she was a virgin.

[@winniedhaouadi1973]

Wouldt like to lived in that time for a day

[@merryweatherflowers]

Henry would have made sure it was consummated the dowery still wasn’t paid diwn

[@pioneercynthia1]

I'll be the Devil's Advocate here. If Catherine was indeed a virgin (and I, personally, believe she was), then why would a papal dispensation be needed for Henry to marry Catherine? Was it just to cover the bases in case Catherine was lying (which seems outrageous to even consider). And yet, Catherine was no fool. She was related to the Pope, which was absolutely a factor in the Pope's refusal to grant an annulment. (In those days the pope was also a temporal ruler, not just a religious one.) He didn't want any political grief from Catherine's parents jeopardizing his rule over the Vatican land holdings (much, much more substantial at that time). It appears that everyone wanted to cover all the asses of everyone involved, just in case. Henry VII didn't want *anything* to even gently nudge his newly founded dynasty. There's just so many questions. But that's what makes history fun!

[@ashleystevens6829]

So not Tudor the house

[@aurorasilverthorne]

People hide behind their religion all the time. Catherine and Arthur were old enough to marry and were considered full-fledged adults at the time. Catherine was of royal blood and her servants had to say whatever was necessary to make her look good and keep her out of trouble or they'd end up dead. Royals and nobles had the money to pay for special dispensation from the church which was likely just as corrupt then as it is now. There was also no way to check if a woman was a virgin without running the risk of stretching her hymen which, if she bled, would just render her damaged goods and ruin her chances at a beneficial marriage. I firmly believe Catherine and Arthur did consummate their marriage, but Catherine lied to protect herself and further her position after Arthur's death. She lied again years later to protect her daughter's life and claim to the throne. I doubt Henry would've known whether she was truly a virgin. Not all women bleed the first time they have sex. He'd have been too busy rutting into her like an estrus crazed boar to care. The whole point of marriage at that time was financial gain, social climbing, and furthering the family line through heirs. I wish people would stop giving Catherine of Aragon a pass just because she was supposedly a devout woman. Both she and Henry had their own reasons for saying and doing as they did back in the day. I doubt either of them were actually good people. Look at how their daughter turned out. Plus they've all been dead for hundreds of years. Time to let it go since we'll never really know the truth anyway. All the did they-didn't they and he said-she said makes for a good story, but that's about it.

[@jazminmuro9692]

Thank you! For finally saying what we wanted to say. It is true that people took advantage of religion all the time. Like Isabel of Castile used her fanatic ideas into religion to create the Spanish Inquisition. Hell, she even banished Jews and Muslims from Spain for not converting to her religion. Catherine of Aragon did not want to go back to Spain because she knew she would be considered used goods and would be forced to marry a duke or Marquis based on her mother's ideas. Catherine wanted to be queen. She didn't care if she had to lie about it. But don't forget people also used Henry 8th all the time from his wife, to worsely and to other courtiers whom he had mistresses to boost their positions in court. So in a way, they create a tyrant, short-tempered king.

[@Angela-ot7es]

Wasn't Catalina of Motril a moor?

[@rushamitra335]

Mam, you have presented an entirely impactful poverty in accordance with Tudor marriage. It was unheard till date to me.i have never been go through this name before.since u am writing something really important to Henry the 8 insightful vows,it will genuinely enrich my verses.i will raise the name. Pranamam and 🙏 .

[@DarrenMalin]

You failed to mention the the 'Muslims land' of Granada was only Muslim because they invaded and stole it from us, the Christians they were converted , killed or enslaved. It was NOT taken to was RECOVERED and it people liberated from Islam. Greeting from Cadiz Spain.

[@rachaelhattox9887]

Disconcerting how this woman is clearly reading something off screen. Not a fan.

[@jgray852]

Queen Katherine was far too religious to lie about her virginity

[@leticiagarcia9025]

I believe her marriage to Arthur wasn’t consummated.

[@chrisstrider]

Gruesome but fascinating story

[@Myacckt]

The presenter is reading her text very distracting

[@HaHa.Na.ssentu]

A baby's gender is determined by the man not the mother. Henry wanted a son, his wife was murdered because she produced a girl. Sadly he was not privy to that fact and as it was his fault not hers. Royalty was exempt of the Law and the atrocities committed.

[@halporter9]

I think it was likely consumated. Arthur did not die from being a sickly boy. Sweating Sickness is now thought to be a hanta virus. Catherine was also seriously ill, and there were a number of epidemics of the disease about this time in England and France and elsewhere. I suspect, as normally healthy teenagers they would have had sex upon marriage. Frankly I think the consummation issue was idiotic/silly, and a lot of contemporaries were also likely to agree. There were strong political reasons to continue the Spanish/English alliance. And the marriage?The old biblical patriarchs would have obliged a brother to marry the widowed Catherine. Maybe not so much eternal damnation weighed on her conscience, and a lot more practical commitment to consummation of effective rulership for the good of all. After Arthur’s death, for example, Catherine served as the Ambassador of the Spanish Court to England for several years. She was not a figurehead, even though a teenager. Catherine was by all accounts brilliant and had been rigorously educated for rulership since early childhood. After marrying Henry she was a counselor and served as regent when Henry was out of the country. All of Isabela’s children were remarkably talented.

[@laara1426]

Not well research. Typically a member of the clergy checked the bedsheets to confirm the marriage was consummated . They check for blood which confirmed the woman was a virgin.

[@dapdne4916]

The Pope granted permission. I doubt that virtue was required of Royal Widows.

[@katiejon17]

...there was no I formation given in this video.

[@MissTia777]

WTF @ 4:03???! So she IN the room on the wedding night?

[@gnomely1]

Consummated is not pronounced as in consume. It is pronounced as in summary which it is related to.

[@emmaponymous]

Is there evidence of her being a slave? Or is "probably" good enough to sketch her background, character, feelings about her own position. 🤔 There is a lot of vagueness in the story and it's in stark contrast to the high production quality of the video.

[@lindaackerman4412]

Excellent points. I mean, what teenager especially then know about sex? The boys might have had a bit more information but the girls were kept in the dark. One the other hand, did her belief in her God given destiny override her peity .....just that once?

[@aquatera3815]

This host has such an unpleasant delivery, she also gives a strong vibe of having a big chip on her shoulder.

[@annehumphreys271]

Nice story, not much connection with history, not least that spanish enslavement of Moriscos didn’t begin until after the war of granada 1568-71!

[@wickedcabinboy]

Thoroughly unsatisfying video. The answer is still that no one knows. There, saved you 8:02

[@maisondusuave]

Really? "people of colour"? It meant very little indeed then.

[@MaiRaven3]

They would watch the royal couple consummate the marriage on the wedding night…it was custom.

[@magical_universe793]

then why no evidence?!

[@LilyGrace95]

I know this is a really moot point, but that actress is white, isn't she...? Not a PoC....

[@cocochocookiedough]

Back then people didn't have sex and sleep alone in the bedrooms? They did it in the presence of their maids?

[@roseg1333]

I think the Bolyns did not like her answer and had her offed or made her disappear they were know to be unsavory characters

[@paulawakefield7869]

🤔nothing new, let alone revelatory. here. Click bait. 😠