Cats Who Should Have Gone to the Dark Forest (Instead of Frecklewish)

[@atlaskanik]

Greystripe didn’t break the code about rejecting the life of a kittypet. Yes, he lived as one briefly, but he was literally captured and taken away by twolegs, and as soon as he got there, he began to plan a way out. He didn’t break the code because he didn’t *choose* to become one and he did reject the life by escaping.

[@ThatOneFox_Otherlink]

I agree but he also broke it by meeting with silverstream from a different clan but STILL if they hadn’t found each other where would feathertail or stormfur be?? StarClan would have to choose different cats to journey and to be honest those r the best

[@morningglory5502]

I know, but this is also my least favorite part of the warrior code. It just doesn't make *sense.* If you're a kittypet, the warrior code no longer applies to you.

[@_kaleido]

@@morningglory5502 If you still believe in StarClan I guess it could still apply? But then again, Pinestar somehow made it to StarClan so who knows?

[@morningglory5502]

@@_kaleido Yeah, I think they only added that law after Pinestar left. So maybe Pinestar got an out?

[@walnut-kitto]

Rainflower totally deserves The Dark Forest wayyy more than Frecklewish but the writers just. hate Frecklewish for no reason

[@walnut-kitto]

To add to this why does Oakstar not get sent to the dark forest?? He exiled kits?? That's breaking the protecting kits even if they're from other clans basically?

[@LocalLazyStove]

Oh not only I don’t remember which book was it but it was mention that Oakstar would send out patrols to attack kittypets WHO WERE IN THEIR HOMES AND GET RANDOMLY ATTACK BY CLAN CATS

[@TrinketTheDragonsHoarde]

@@walnut-kitto Probably because of this part of the warrior code The word of the Clan leader is the warrior code.

[@0.721x]

@@walnut-kitto Him being upset by the fact that their father was Appledusk the accidental “killer” of his son is understandable. But he went about it the wrong way when he exiled those kits. Although in the warrior code it also says that the leaders word is law and no cat is allowed to speak up against him not even the medicine cat. But the Erin’s will probably use a stupid excuse like how they did ashfur when he got into starclan. “Because he loved too much” although Oakstar relationships are more understandable ashfurs.. are just plan stupid because he did all this over a break up. Plus his crimes aren’t as bad as ashfurs but they’re still pretty horrible

[@crossbowmeat]

actualy.. Thw actual writer of Mapleshades vengance, said she thinks that frecklewish went to STARCLAN

[@aqurnus4404]

Look at her father OakStar He is like TigerStar Seinor He attacked kittpypets IN THEIR OWN HOMES He exiled maple and her kits He was a shitty person to begin with Instead of canceling a innocent cat Cancel OakStar

[@LocalLazyStove]

YES! Like this fox heart is literally Blackstar mixed with Tigerstar- WHY IS HE IN STARCLAN WHILE HIS DAUGHTER IS ROTTING IN THE DARK FOREST WHEN SHE DOESNT DESERVE IT

[@whoopihyena8961]

I’m on this wagon #CancelOakstar

[@LocalLazyStove]

#CancelOakstar

[@stapoldypropagandaaccount]

#oakstarisoverparty

[@ajvfajgryjelhywmbgh]

#oakstarisoverparty

[@Grumity]

If any cat deserves the Dark Forest, it's Oakstar, the warrior code specifically says: "No warrior should neglect a kit in danger, even if they are in a different Clan" I understand that he was grieving but that does not justify his actions for exiling children. It would have gone for an interesting plot twist if Pinestar saw Oakstar in the Dark Forest and was haunted and manipulated by him. Sweetbriar deserved better, make Beetail or something as Pinestar's father.

[@shell_razor]

Honestly I'm surprised Mapleshade didn't try to kill him too, let alone consider it. I mean, like you said, he's the one who exiled her kits. It's probably because he had multiple lives, but we know it's possible to take away all of a leader's lives, and I know Mapleshade wouldn't be above that

[@mothwingthemedicinecat]

i instantly thought of Russetfur when i heard about this. she still refused when the code was pointed out to her, saying it doesn't apply to Berrykit as he wasn't from any clan SHE WAS FROM OUTSIDE THE CLAN AS WELL LIKE BERRYNOSE. so she is a hypocrite as well, that means she is breaking the code by being in the clan.

[@LocalLazyStove]

I’m still gonna think that Frecklewish is in StarClan mainly because Vicky, the original author of Mapleshade Vengeance, has stated that she thinks Frecklewish is in StarClan, so I’m gonna believe she’s in StarClan and the writing team can’t do anything to change my mind, not even a book or a ark would change that since I will consider it not canon like Spottedleaf heart

[@mysryuza]

Legit

[@cosmox1x]

It was her book and it is unfair of the authors to ruin her view of it, especially when it comes to going to helk.

[@LocalLazyStove]

It’s honestly feels like a middle finger to Vicky and a “I don’t care lol” to her

[@cottonwillow2820]

Same.

[@WarriorLionstripe]

@@LocalLazyStove We need Kate Cary to be the main writer again, and Vicky return. My goodness this whole thing is a mess.

[@heh1140]

What really riles me up, is the fact that Frecklewish originally didn't do anything like this. It was just a sudden highlighting of a fan's work, that was made canon. Frecklewish is an interesting character; she isn't the most goodhearted cat in the series nor is she flat out malicious. But clearly, someone, on the Erin Hunter team appears to be childishly sour about their favourite character, Mapleshade. Mapleshade, unlike Frecklewish, deserves to be in the dark forest. After losing everything, she was driven to insanity and went on a murdering spree. There's been plenty of examples of unjustified selection of cats in StarClan. But then again, StarClan is extremely flawed. There's this authority of good Vs evil, but truly their ideals of what is acceptable has been warped and twisted into something unrealistic. ASHFUR got into StarClan. The gaslighting, manipulating tom who attempted to kill, Squirrelflight's kits. (yes, I know their adopted but I still think of them as hers) Not to mention he nearly succeeded in murdering Firestar, even taking one of his lives. Yet...he "loved" too much? Brightflower is a similar example to Frecklewish. Brightflower, if you are unaware of who she is; was Yellowfang's mother. She had given birth to a new litter of kits, around the reign of Brokenstar. As most know, Brokenstar apprenticed kits as young as three moons, thus kits ending up being slaughtered in training or even killed by a fox. Brokenstar then accused Yellowfang. And well Brightflower believed him, in a moment of distrust; I think it was reasonable. I mean..she just lost her kits. Brightflower certainly shouldn't of believed her grandson, over her daughter, but nonetheless being sent to the dark forest because of it? Apparently she had too much anger lingering for her daughter. Like, was nobody gonna tell her the truth? It's 100% favouritism. Even if Frecklewish DID know the kits were dying then it still wouldn't make sense. Frecklewish isn't a good cat, but in spite of the situation, she sounds realistic more than anything. Imagine your friend ended up having kits with the murderer of your brother. Are you going to be compassionate and caring to the kits? Depending on what type of person you are, you would select differently. Most people would be reasonable and say "oh! of course not! the kits are not to blame for whatever their parents did!", but some, in the spur of the moment, some might make the wrong decision. She would overlook mind over matter, not thinking if it was reasonable what she was doing because she would've been completely shattered. I don't think what she did was morally justified but even so, she had a reason for acting like that. I believe Frecklewish to be a morally grey character. She isn't perfect, and that is what makes her interesting. Anyways this is just my lil' rant. If anyone has other options, I'd love to hear them!

[@susiepilled]

agreed. though, just putting it as "best friend had kits with the murderer of your brother" is a little vague. frecklewish knew the kits for like 2-3 moons. she loved them. once she found out, she screeched for their exile and called them creatures. when the girl who hooked up with her brothers murderer is. right there. but yeah, haha.

[@ricegorm]

@@susiepilled if I'm remembering correctly she didn't actually call for their exile. That was all Oakstar's doing. All she did was lash out in anger by yelling at them and clawing Mapleshade

[@susiepilled]

@@ricegorm no, she did! here ( page 40 & 41 respectively) "'(...) You don't deserve to be called a warrior and nor do those... those half-Clan creatures.' She curled her lip toward the three kits, who cowered beneath the ferns. 'Their father killed Birchface and Flowerpaw! Get them out of here!'" "'(...) Reeds don't belong in our territory, and certainly not in the heart of our camp. These kits will bring nothing but danger!' 'Get rid of them!' screeched Frecklewish. 'Drive them out!'"

[@ricegorm]

@@susiepilled ah tysm for reminding me and not being rude about it as well! I guess I forgot more of the book then I realized

[@susiepilled]

@@ricegorm you're welcome :D i get it, haha

[@redtailarts101]

In Rainflower's defense (which still doesn't defend her from being worse than Frecklewish), Bright Guardian Akira has theorized that Rainflower changed Stormkit's name to Crookedkit and distanced herself from him because she initially thought he would die. She did it to make it easier for herself when he succumbed to his injury. But when he survived, Rainflower realized she'd made a terrible mistake, but thought it was too late to take it back, and was too cowardly to face her son and ask his forgiveness. She watched his life-giving ceremony, yet wasn't able to give him a life, either through being punished or through still being too afraid to face her son.

[@warriorcatsaudios6304]

Blackstar?? Why is Blackstar in the dark forest? Onestar?? Who caused the whole Darktail problems and the deaths of so many cats. If he hadnt broken the code in the first Darktail wouldn't be born and thus most of skyclan and those in the other Clans wouldn't have been killed or suffered.

[@warriorcatsaudios6304]

@@anon777... I meant why is he Not in the dark forest

[@graphitetailgrace3870]

I think leaders (except for Tigerstar) just get exempt from the Dark Forest. I mean, notice how even Rowanstar got accepted into StarClan despite his own bullshit.

[@warriorcatsaudios6304]

@@graphitetailgrace3870 I don't think so, I think it's because they have more than one life - and despite their wrong doings they all sacrificed themselves in the end for a better cause. Then again, so did Juniperclaw, so I wouldn't call it fair.

[@DarkInvader1800]

because blackstar killed a elder to kidnap kits

[@calicodragons]

Yeah, gosh when I found out Frecklewish was sent to the dark forest- I wasn’t pleased- why would she want to dive into a raging river, that her brother (plus his presumed apprentice) previously drowned in!!

[@firewillow8676]

When you have a head Cannon that frecklewish was mistaken for another frecklewish that looked a lot like her and that did break the code

[@mysryuza]

Ooooo

[@childeofepickness]

This is now my headcanon, this headcanon belongs to me.

[@mysryuza]

The writers couldn’t send Ashfur back into the Dark Forest so they used Frecklewish as a scapegoat or something.

[@Raven15-]

Raggedstar? Oakstar? Bluestar? Oakheart? Yellowfang? Cloudtail? Russetfur? Lizardstripe? Rainflower? Stormtail? Appledusk? Blackstar? Leafpool? Crowfeather? Feathertail? Mothwing? Fireheart/star? Ashfur? Pinestar? Crookedstar for training in the dark forest. Ivypool? Dovewing? Lionblaze? They all broke the code why not throw them all into the dark forest too? Makes sense right? Edit - I only think a few cats should be in the dark forest. Such as Raggedstar, Lizardstripe, Rainflower, Oakstar. So. Yea please don't mad at me I love most of these cats.

[@Blooood2699]

APPLE DUSK SHOULD >:[ (sorry caps lol)

[@sparker-sparkle]

crookedstar was born destined to become clan leader brokenstar was born evil if you’re going to do something bad in you’re life time it’s decided long before you’re life begins in warrior cats

[@graphitetailgrace3870]

In terms of Dark Forest trainees, I excuse Crookedstar because he got to know Mapleshade when he was a kit/apprentice, so his naivety meant putting a lot of trust in her. He also actually tried to break it off with her instead of hiding the Dark Forest's true intentions like the cowards in OoTS. Every other trainee sans the Three, Tigerstar II, Bramblestar, and Ivypool, though...they belong in the Dark Forest without any question, especially the ones who were never shown atoning for their actions, and Thornclaw, WHO SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER.

[@Raven15-]

@@graphitetailgrace3870 true im just naming cats that broke the code XD

[@Raven15-]

@@graphitetailgrace3870 read the comment above

[@Kenneth_Makes_Content]

I find it odd that Frecklewish is the one to obey the Warrior code yet she finds herself in the dark forest but when the main characters break the warriors code, it’s fine

[@LocalLazyStove]

If your main character you get StarClan privileges no matter how many times you broke the code, if your a side or background character, then good luck

[@lyncxold]

Technically she didn’t, left kits knowingly in danger leading to their deaths which is against the code.

[@puppydogs68]

Main characters got those shiny plot armor privileges 😂

[@falcon_arkaig]

@@lyncxold Yet main characters have done way worse, like LionBlaze who killed multiple cats (on accident) including AshFoot (Windclan's deputy). Also HollyLeaf, who killed someone too. And Russetfur, who stared at a kit while it was in visible pain and suffering. Yet....

[@orchidoxs126]

@@lyncxold I mean what was she supposed to do? Mapleshade who was much closer to the kitten before the flash flood drove into them was getting swept from the stones before the kits were hit. What would freckle wish a cat that can barely swim be able to do? Hell the river clan cats didn't jump in the water to save them. They told mapleshade to grab onto a stick.

[@lodgimoss]

rainflower should for sure be in the dark forest, she literally neglected one of her sons when he needed her the most and changed his prefix to crooked

[@mysryuza]

Pretty much StarClan damned Frecklewish to the Dark Forest for not following her brother’s paw prints in dying (in her case it would be suicide to try to save the kits from the raging river, so I guess StarClan is pro-unaliving yourself)

[@BasilKats]

Don't forget: Bluestar for taking her kits out into the snow, resulting in Mosskit's death and apprenticing Cinderpaw and Brakenpaw before 6 moons. Spottedleaf for knowingly letting Bluestar take her kits out into the snow. Runningnose for letting a kit die at its mother's belly. Flintfang for taking Badgerfang as an appretnice. Anyone else complicit in Brokenstar's rule Oakstar for exiling Mapleshade's kits Skystar for letting One Eye tear Sparrow Fur up And these are just the cats who broke the no warrior can neglect a kit in danger rule. Surely they deserve to go to hell and suffer for all of eternity with no chance of ever redeeming themselves? /s Edit: sorry for not tagging this I’m being sarcastic here none of these cats deserve the dark forest! I’m just bringing them up to show how ridiculous it is to send a cat to the dark forest for one crime.

[@alyssabullock6421]

Wait, Bluestar apprenticed cinder and braken before 6 moons??

[@BasilKats]

@@alyssabullock6421 yes, they were three moons old

[@QuirkOverhaul]

Bluestar? Get out of here with that nonsense.

[@BasilKats]

@@QuirkOverhaul hey I remember you I think you’re the same person who called me a “cringe snowflake” in another comments section if I recall correctly. Nice one. Not the point tho. It’s true Bluestar did apprentice Cinder and Bracken before three moons, and she later apprentices their siblings when they reach 6 moons old. And I’m assuming you know what happened to Mosskit. Sorry if it wasn’t clear but I was being sarcastic, of course these cats don’t deserve the dark forest. I was just making a point that if we throw Frecklewish in there here’s everyone else we gotta throw too, to show how ridiculous it is. I don’t believe anyone I listed, Frecklewish, or cats like Russetfur and Blackstar deserve to go to the dark forest at all. Russetfur, for example, was a great deputy, she doesn’t deserve to suffer in the dark forest for one crime against Berrykit. That’s ridiculous and completely unfair.

[@QuirkOverhaul]

@@BasilKats id like to think freckles had too much hate in her heart for starclan to let her join. I mean starclan is supposed to be this perfect utopian paradise, harboring all that hatred might have been a red flag. All these other cats, including trash like blackstar ended up redeeming themselves from their mistakes before they died.

[@annabellesgamingadventures5243]

With the Erin’s logic Firestar should go to the dark forest for giving Yellowfang that prey and breaking the warrior code

[@mossfeathertail5276]

I agree, Firestar made many bad choices such as breaking the code. Especially as an apprentice.I’m nit saying Firestar SHOULD have gone, but he also went many times.

[@V0xation]

Yeah but firestar was a prophecy cat and most of his code breaking actions were considered morally good. ALSO the fact he's saved multiple clans multiple times as well. His good actions HEAVILLY outweigh some small codes broken

[@Malanchuk_Diana]

he did not break it for the purpose of evil

[@evangeline1501]

The art looks so good! I agree that these cats deserve to be in the dark forest rather than Frecklewish.

[@candytvstudios7742]

i'm surprised nobody has mention greywing (riverclan), when it comes to the hypocrisy of this entire situation to sum up what she and two other riverclan cats ( brindleclaw & foxwhisker) did: these three where put into almost the exact same situation as frecklewish as they saw three windclan kits (smallkit, wolfkit & runningkit) caught in the river. brindleclaw wanted to go into the river and save them however greywing & foxwhisker refused and even actively tried to stop him saying this: "they're probably dead already, we can't risk our own lives to save them, besides they are windclan kits. they're not ours to save." leading to you've guessed it the three kits drowing. the difference: these were RIVERclan cats in a not nearly as dangerous situation whereas frecklewish was a thunderclan cat and couldn't swim in a freaking FLASHFLOOD. edit: yes i know that the river was flooding in that story but again riverclan cats can swim and there is still a good chance that if they went in there to save the kits that they would've been fine.

[@miuiswaifu]

Yknow what's funny is that sandstorm has no clue who maple shade is Sandstorm frowned. "What's your name?" "My names Mapleshade!" lmfao

[@grimmcorvid5713]

To be fair this makes sense. Starclan are a bunch of hypocritical dictators. Id like to see this examined in the new arcs. Also #cancelOakstar

[@GweenOfTea]

Imagine tho if it was the beginning of an arc of a corrupted starclan that becomes so overly paranoid of the cats that they start banishing cats to Dark Forest left and right for being even slightly shady

[@ahornminze]

Remember when the three RIVERCLAN cats that literally WATCHED 3 kits of Windclan drown in the warriors code? Yes that code was made because this happened. But I have to say it is even worse because one of them actually wanted to save them as they fell into the river and the other said no stop. Okay after that they changed their mind and said well it was bad, but the kits are already dead and they made the code of that. I mean it didn't exist by that time that code but still. It is almost like the same situation like in Frecklewish situation only even worse

[@candytvstudios7742]

i made a comment about that forgetting that this one already exists either way you have a good point.

[@Szych.a]

7:02 Also, she could be just scared of water Like you know, Erins once said every time Bluestar cross Thunderpath it's remainds her about Snowfur and this could be really simmlar situation to what happend to Freacklewish. She could be just scared of river - same river, where the most important cat to her died (btw, nickname "4rcane" really remainds me about a show on Netflix called Arcane)

[@Kotop-o4p]

People always say Frecklewish was unstable and obsessive about Birchface’s death. They also say she should’ve helped the kits, I full on disagree when they say this. If she was so unstable about the death of Birchface she would’ve been too hesitant to help since she must’ve been TRAUMATIZED by that river.

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

Erin hunter didn't send Frecklewish to the dark forest, the story team did

[@bunny8936]

whoever gave Badgerfang that fatal wound should be on this list

[@DarkQuilava13]

*is onto the raincloud part and just the mention of her* *slams hands on desk* YES!!! YESSS!!! auto subbing now.

[@DarkQuilava13]

also as a note I know this is old but I feel like its for plot related reasons they threw her in there but that's my guess

[@Littlefox1213]

@@DarkQuilava13 Everything is plot related pretty much. (Mapleshade having her kits cross the river, the clan cats being pissed at the Sisters for existing) Of course it’s there for a reason but even if it’s suppose to be related to the plot that’s still harm done to her own kit.

[@BlikTuberFictionalIsBased]

I think we can all agree that Thistleclaw belongs there

[@5rcane]

Don’t worry, he has his own special video coming up soon.

[@BlikTuberFictionalIsBased]

@@5rcane Can't wait

[@tuxedocat4338]

Oh absolutely

[@Ireadwaytoomuch]

I love your videos and I love your argument about Rainflower I totally agree that she was a terrible mother

[@5rcane]

TY! I don’t see how anyone could think that she isnt

[@ThePixelatedWarrior2008]

Ashfur: (Was incredibly obsessed with Squirrelflight, took one of Firestar’s lives, and threatened to kill three cats.) The Erins: I sleep. Frecklewish: (Doesn’t save a group of kits because she didn’t know they were in danger.) The Erins: Real Shit

[@HalaNixNyx]

StarClan needs some mental help- if they let such bad cats in and send the good ones to the Dark Forest they need ALOT of mental help

[@Rayan_Does_Videos]

I agree with this sorry if im late. But putting fricklewish in the dark forest is quite stupid. Oh, who am i kidding, it's so stupid. I dont like frecklewish but honestly oakstar should have gone. He sent 3 kits, who had no control of what their parents did, gets sent outside during leaffall during flood season. I'm surprise that mapleshade didn't go after him. I mean someone who is mentally unstable like mapleshade didn't care about the outcome during these killings. Fricklewish couldn't go into the river. Due to her brother dying from this it could have put some ptsd in her. AND THE RIVER WAS TOO LOUD FOR ANY CAT ACROSS TO HEAR SOMEONE CALLING.

[@Raven_Is_Baby]

YES!

[@theconfuzzleddoge]

if its ever possible for dark forest cats to become starclan cats, if they prove themselves, freckelwish should go to starclan, where she rightfully deserves to be

[@Snowst0rmStudiosTheIdiot]

Ok putting everything aside for a second Your improvement shocked me beyond words!

[@5rcane]

TY DUDE!! ✨💜

[@dragonsbanecannibal9378]

List Of Cats: RussetFur RainFlower LizardStripe Blackfoot/Star

[@Littlefox1213]

Clearsky

[@i_am_Plague]

Oakstar (i havent ready Mapleshades Vengeance, but Oakstar is Tigerstars very very VERRY distant relative, right?) shouldve, too.

[@LeafeonOreo]

Yes, tigerstar (the first) father was pinestar, pinestar's father was oakstar. (So That's like his grandfather)

[@i_am_Plague]

@@LeafeonOreo yeah that was forever ago, i've read it now.

[@DefNotEnder]

I’m pretty sure Rainflower didn’t love Crookedkit because she thought his injury would be fatal and tried to cancel out her grieving then just kept piling up mistakes until she died

[@thehunter2392]

I think we should just respect the writers' choice and not whine about it.

[@itsmeyesmeadmireme]

The Erins didn't send Frecklewish to the DF, the warrior cat's website did. One of the Erins even said that Freckle was innocent.

[@laloongod4196]

Can somebody talk about why quick water isn’t in the dark forest. She literally tried to kill another clan’s leader for no reason.

[@ottersn0t]

No one: The character's eyes: o-O

[@Szych.a]

More I hear about Freacklewish more I want write au novel, when she goes to Starclan... our poor Freckle deserve this

[@Nicodemus-1004]

The reason they put frecklewish there is that frostpaw doesn't know what starclan looks like and says she saw leapardstar a golden tabby with amber eyes but it's only her memory bc she's been told about leapardstar so who else has golden tabby pelt and amber eyes? Frecklewish (just a theory which I feel is far fetched but I'm fully gonna believe they made a huge change like that if they have a reason)

[@Cloud-mf6bb]

I’m partially neutral the fandom label frecklewish actions on grief and anger which was the same reason people said mapleshade should go to the DF,l and not her so it’s kinda a vice versa you can’t pick and choose who was right and who was wrong or who goes where and why if both did the same thing.

[@scrappythecat88]

Mapleshade literally actively murdered three cats. You can't compare the two in the slightest? Grief isn't an excuse for murder. PTSD regarding knowing your brother and his apprentice died trying to save him from that same river is a pretty good reason to not try and jump in that river.

[@Cloud-mf6bb]

@@scrappythecat88 grief doesn’t justify frecklewish hitting her as well, grief doesn’t justify her snapping at literal children none of that should be excused either and that’s my whole point. Frecklewish grief is what people use to justify her actions while for mapleshade the fandom is like she didn’t have grief she’s just a murderer which isn’t true when the book should her to be more motherly loving than anything and killing out of grief. Neither should be justified they both are horrible honestly.

[@mysryuza]

@@Cloud-mf6bb I can’t excuse her actions either, but the main difference them is that Mapleshade actively murdered three cats and knowing what she did, and that point, I don’t think she cares about StarClan as much as she used to anymore. She had nothing to lose. Mapleshade loved her kits, but it’s what she did to others in her life in comparison to Frecklewish as a response to the tragedies and betrayals that occurred that damned her. Frecklewish losing her cool is understandable with context, but not excusable. Mapleshade’s grief is understandable, but she killed multiple cats as a response. I think you’re confusing “reason” for “justify.” There’s a reason to their direction of their responses to tragedy, but they don’t excuse them. I do understand your points though.

[@Cloud-mf6bb]

@@mysryuza I was mainly going off of what I’ve heard and seen within frecklewish and the DF drama where people literally justify her grief yes there’s a reason why these cats did what they did but that doesn’t mean it should’ve happened. I really don’t like MV mainly because it’s based off of assumptions and false beliefs and the confusing connection so that’s why some cats I don’t really feel bad for them. True they had tragedies but they didn’t need to based their actions off of it. MV is a book were the cats kinda put feelings over logic which was ok for the beginning but it got worse as it progressed.

[@Cloud-mf6bb]

@@mysryuza I was mainly going off of what I’ve heard and seen within frecklewish and the DF drama where people literally justify her grief yes there’s a reason why these cats did what they did but that doesn’t mean it should’ve happened. I really don’t like MV mainly because it’s based off of assumptions and false beliefs and the confusing connection so that’s why some cats I don’t really feel bad for them. True they had tragedies but they didn’t need to based their actions off of it.

[@cawingcrows2072]

Frecklewish couldnt swim anyway what was she supposed to do??? She was Thunderclan, they can't swim, especially not during a storm, she would have died

[@Raven_Is_Baby]

YES. And the kits would have died anyways! It would just be 4 deaths instead of 3. Even though it's awful, I would rather less cats die even if it is kittens.

[@echo5435]

The erins need to see this-

[@Raven_Is_Baby]

YESSSSS

[@breadzlover]

I feel like the only cats that deserved the dark forest in Mapleshade’s vengeance were Mapleshade herself and maybe Oakstar.

[@blurryeyes8572]

Also, yeah, Rainflower and Russetfur deserve to be there too

[@nyra8263]

the fact that we're taking ANYTHING the erins say seriously (especially after spottedleaf's heart) at this point is ridiculous. frecklewish is in starclan. russetfur, raggedstar, rainflower, oakstar, appledusk, spiderleg, dustpelt, foxheart, lizardstripe and skystar are in the dark forest. ashfur never went to starclan in the first place. mapleshade and leopardstar are in a grey area so they're in ghost residence. i rest my case. also i saw a thing a while back and i can't stress it enough that the only innocent cats in mapleshade's vengeance were reedshine, frecklewish and maple's kits. no other cat in that book was innocent.

[@totallygarnular]

Why is Mapleshade a ghost residence? (Yes I know im late lol also, Ravenwing and Appledusk were innocent [and let's not forget Perchpaw]) you literally just put cats you didn't like in the dark forest with no reason (like spiderleg and dustpelt). You also put Mapleshade is not in the gray area she literally killed cats because she can't blame herself for her own actions.

[@Malanchuk_Diana]

What was the fault of Dustpelt and Spiderleg, they did not kill anyone and were loyal to their clan

[@nyra8263]

@@Malanchuk_Diana dustpelt preyed on his niece when she was still an apprentice, spiderleg was an absent father despite living in the same clan as his kids. personally i think that's kind of awful

[@nyra8263]

@@totallygarnular For some reason I didn't get this notification but Mapleshade's position was me judging from StarClan's perspective, due to their corruption The explanation for the rest of the dark forest cats is from a moral position - they all deserve to be there. - Russetfur watched Berrykit get trapped by a fox trap and did nothing to save him. - Raggedstar was an abusive partner. - Rainflower was an abusive mother. - Oakstar exiled three children in the middle of leafbare. - For Appledusk - this was 9 months ago and I'm kind of a raging Appledusk apologist now. - Ravenwing was only semi-innocent in my eyes, his intentions were pure but it was his fault that the kits were exiled. I didn't even put him on the list though, not sure why you brought him up. - Didn't put Perchpaw on there either. Also he was a minor character. There's 3000 cats in the series, you can't seriously expect me to remember a random apprentice in a novella. - Spiderleg was an absent father despite living in the same clan as his kits, which is a horrible thing to do. - Dustpelt preyed on his niece when she was an apprentice. That's pretty fandom-wide knowledge, I don't understand why two separate people saw that and couldn't think of a single reason why he was on there, despite him being a problematic character. (also I like Dustpelt, and I'm neutral on Spiderleg, so it isn't bias at all) - Foxheart was abusive to Brokenkit - Lizardstripe was abusive to Brokenkit - Skystar/Clear Sky? I don't think we even need to talk about him. He's a horrible cat and his redemption arc was mediocre at best, I don't think it was good enough to make up for what he did. - Leopardstar made some horrible decisions but she had redeemed herself. I'm unsure if the redemption was enough though. Before you make a comment and assume that someone's statements are from a point of bias, actually look into the characters and their actions and maybe you'll get it correct next time.

[@totallygarnular]

@@nyra8263 1. I'd just like to say that I wasn't talking about everyone on your list, I know that and agree that 90% of the cats on your list should be in the DF (but I should have specified that). I just wanted answers, sorry if I came off as rude or harsh with my statement. 2. I'd also like to specify that the reason I brought up Ravenwing is because he is an innocent in two of the three things people blame him for (EX: Mapleshade's exile, Mapleshade's kits getting swept away by the river, and Mapleshade going on a killing spree) and I brought up Perchpaw because I love Perchpaw and I will never let people forget that he was also innocent in MV. 3. At this point I've been taught over and over that whenever someone says "Appledusk deserves to go to the DF", that it's formed by some kind of bias. The vast majority of opinions on characters in MV are formed by biases and I've seen so many people with biases towards characters like Appledusk (where the person has a negative opinion on said character), that the fact that someone could have a different reason for having a opinion on a controversial character just completely slips my mind. My apologies for the fact that you have to type an entire list of characters and why they should or shouldn't go to the DF at around 9:50 EST because I, lately, have not been specifying important things in my statements. Have a good night (or day depending on where you live)

[@Aiden-wg4pu]

Lizardstripe a few moons after abusing Brokenstar: +Assist +Assist +Assist

[@Zada2011]

Also it could be argued that every river clan cat on the shore would deserve to go to the dark forest for also not acting, as their rules are worded.

[@lunaria973]

If you’re saying that the Erins are broken, then you’re saying Tui T Sutherland is broken lol

[@endereye964]

Tui isn’t even working on Warriors anymore….

[@welp4130]

my theory: the reason they tossed freckle down there is to sort of show how starclan makes mistakes. (fuck starclan, all my homies hate starclan)

[@oliviahendricks6967]

Mapleshade should have gone to starclan all she did was kill cats who deserved it

[@rAt-fn7vu]

If her mapleshade too XD

[@atlasjays-]

I have an oc in the dark forest she is nice and helped other cats but she grew up with a bad cat and so she killed the med and regretted it not noticing till later it was her mom and now she’s trying to do ANYTHING to go to star clan. Ngl the dark forest looks cool

[@coffeewolfproductions9113]

I would like to add onto this with Bluestar because her actions are very similar to Mapleshade's and much worse than Frecklewish's but she still goes to Starclan. Firstly like Mapleshade she gets into a relationship with a Riverclan warrior and even has half clan kits with him. Both then endanger their kit's lives in an attempt to get them to their father in Riverclan despite the fact there were other options available to them. However I think that Bluestar's actions above were worse than Mapleshade's. Mapleshade overall is the worse cat of the two but when it comes to breaking the code and endangering kits Mapleshade had more of a reason to do so. She and her kits were just kicked out of Thunderclan after the truth about her kits got out and you could possibly argue that the mental and emotional stress of this caused her to cross the river (not trying to defend her actions but just presenting a possible explanation). However the reason why Bluestar did it is so much worse. She wanted to become deputy and feared that her kits would hold her back from the position and PREMTIVELY decided that she would take the kits there in the freezing cold, which caused the death of one of them. There were so many other options available to Bluestar such as talking with Thrushpelt and have him take over raising the kits, talking with Sunstar and convincing him to take her anyway, or even having another warrior she trusts help her with bringing the kits to Riverclan. Did Bluestar want to become deputy due to the threat Thistleclaw would pose? Yes. Was it wrong of her to not want to raise the kits and be a deputy at the same time? No. Was it still a horrible plan that endangered the lives of her kits? ABSOLUTELY. And even after she becomes the deputy and later leader of Thunderclan the last months of her reign were horrible as she fell to paranoia, denouncing Starclan, renaming Brightpaw to Lostface, and essentially leaving all the leaders responsibilities to her deputy. While Mapleshade was still worse than Bluestar I still firmly believe that Bluestar should have gone to the dark forest, or at least have gotten a stupid trial about it like Leafpool and Squirrelflight.

[@V0xation]

I agree Bluestar was a horrible person, and even in some scenes in starclan she was really rude. But Bluestar didn’t actively hunt down and murder 3 cats in a fit or rage. And Bluestar was able to resolve (most of) her problems in the last few minutes she was alive. In which starclan felt like she deserved heaven even with all the terrible shit she did

[@coffeewolfproductions9113]

@@V0xation Oh, I agree that Mapleshade is far worse than Bluestar, but I'm mainly pointing out the similarities between them to explain my reasons. Also I don't think that Bluestar's sacrifice at the end of her life made up for all of her horrible choices as leader. If she had taken part in leading the clan then the situation might not have gotten as bad as it did.

[@V0xation]

@@coffeewolfproductions9113 TRUE LOL, but we all know Bluestar just had plot armor 😔

[@graphitetailgrace3870]

The fact that Bluestar was able to participate in the trial against Squirrelflight and Leafpool was an extra kick in the stomach tbh.

[@Malanchuk_Diana]

Blue star don't murder a cats

[@sandwich701]

Btw, what program do u use? Love ur art

[@0.721x]

They used clip studio paint

[@holly_ghostcat]

Mudclaw should have gone to the Dark Forest as well, he contributed to the coupe and tried to kill his clanmate. And maybe even Pinestar, the moment things got hard he fled to the life of a kittypet, and he led to the rise of Tigerstar in a way!

[@Average_Drone]

Ok but why is freckle in the dark forest but not appledusk. If you’re going to put her there, put him there as well, it only makes sense. Are you going to put them both in literal cat hell or starclan? Because they can’t have it both ways with it still making any logical sense.

[@5rcane]

The only difference between Apple and Freckle is that Freckle is a she-cat. The warriors series has a quite bit of misogyny in it, such as punishing she-cats for both having kits (Speckletail) and not having them (Twigbranch). Also, Apple tried to save his kits after the wave hit, but only managed to save Maple as the kits likely died due to head trauma when the wave crashed on them. However, he violated the code too by dating half clan too.

[@Average_Drone]

@@5rcane honestly I wanted to say that but I dare not say the word sexism in the KZbin comment section. Apple has done worse than freckle but both of them shouldn’t be in the dark forest, the point I was trying to make is that apple was much more punishable and by their standards would be in the dark forest yet only freckle is for a much smaller reason. She probably had Actual PTSD from people she cared about drowning so there was no was she was jumping in that river.

[@doctahlynn]

Like I said with the other comment: -Appledusk didn't cheat on Mapleshade; they're cats and there's actually more implication that Reedshine and he became mates afterward. -The only mistake he made was going with a half-clan cat, which he made up for. He was the first of Mapleshade's victims to be confirmed a status. -Mostly the reason why Frecklewish is there is because, just like Ravenwing, her status was never confirmed. I'm not saying she deserves it, but there's a reason. -Birchface and Flowerpaw's death was literally an accident, much like how Graystripe accidentally killed Whiteclaw.

[@0.721x]

@@doctahlynn ah yes finally someone who’s actually read mapleshades vengeance and has a more open mind to Appledusk perspective since we never get to see it. His crimes are actually justifiable since we get clear evidence in the book of him feeling remorse(Birchface and flowerpaw’s death) and reason as to why he abandoned Mapleshade and blamed her for the kits death. I don’t understand how people think cheating is a reason to go to cat hell but if you think cheating is a reason to go to hell then youre just an edgy little kid mad that your roblox girlfriend cheated on you

[@burnedflame2990]

@@doctahlynn what do you mean that AppleDusk didn't cheat on MapleShade? Of course he did,even if they are cats,they still have human MORALITY to know what's right and what's wrong,he pretty much cheated,so please don't use this excuse that "they are cats" And also,It is just a couple of weeks for a cat to become visible pregnant,how could ReedShine be pregnant so quickly after AppleDusk and MapleShade break up? I tell you! Because he was cheating

[@DanielCox-ge2nd]

Bluestar had a mate cross clan and had kits with that said cat and disowned starclan

[@yourlocalkid123]

Sorry if someone already put this but... HOW IS FRECKLEWISH IN THE DARK FOREST AND RAINFLOWER ISN'T??! This is just beyond me

[@MambaDraws]

Is it weird that Blackstar was one of my favorite leaders besides Tallstar and .. (I don't like any of the other leaders 0-0 I mean, besides Firestar but he's not a favorite-)

[@BizkitBasket]

Nope, hes also one of mine lol

[@blurryeyes8572]

Hopefully if the Erin's are smart, Appledusk, Reedshine, Oakstar, Darkstar and Ravenwing will join her!

[@mightyleafster]

Um- excuse me? Why reedshine??? What kind of sin did she do?? Tell mapleshade to leave? None of those characters you named (except oakstar) deserve hell

[@RickyRatCheese]

Reed shine didn't do anything to deserve hell?

[@0.721x]

Lol no all of them are innocent

[@Malanchuk_Diana]

Reedshine is inconect Don't sent everyone to Dark forest Only in this list who must sent to Dark forest is Oakstar.

[@birb70]

What did Reedshine and Ravenwing do?? Literally nothing. In fact, Ravenwing was doing his job by TELLING HIS LEADER ABOUT THE SIGN STARCLAN SENT HIM, he wasn’t even the one who decided they should be exiled. All of those characters either broke one of the warrior code, or none, so by that logic most characters (especially main ones) should be sent to the dark forest, too. I feel like some of yall are forgetting that the book was literally from Mapleshade’s pov 💀 like, of course she’s going to narrate herself as the good one and the others as one in fault, even though she was the one who led her kits to the river in a STORM, knowing none of them (including herself) couldn’t swim well. Like, no, I wouldn’t call her evil if that was the only mistake she did, in fact I WOULD sympathize with her, but of course, she’s Mapleshade and proceeded to blame others for it. I’d say it’s pretty clear that she wasn’t thinking right, considering she tried to attack Reedshine instead of Appledusk

[@robyndionne1182]

Frecklewish in my opinion deserves to be in the dark forest

[@foxdogwolfbird]

Just a little constructive criticism! To make your art even better you should flip the canvas more!! (If this offends you I'm sorry) but might look a little bit more symetrical! :3

[@ScottRoberts-oq9iy]

I subscribed

[@mollyosborne4940]

ReedShine deserves the dark forest the most. MapleShade had AppleDusk first don't fall in love with him right in front her!

[@Kotop-o4p]

That’s not even a crime in the Warrior Code-

[@birb70]

How? It’s not even in the warrior code, and why not blame the so-called cheater instead of her? Btw, it’s not certain that Appledusk cheated. We didn’t see any romantic interactions between them BEFORE Mapleshade was exiled, so it’s possible that he took her as a mate after that

[@bearstacean]

Great video, I’ve subscribed and I’ll be checking out that Berrynose video!

[@internetraspberry]

yES :3 absolutely.*dies*

[@Malanchuk_Diana]

Please stop blame Flintfang for Badgerfang death.

[@woltyandfriends382]

Probably because the kits actually died, while in the other cats’ cases, they didn’t. And please don’t yell at me, I’m not saying it’s a good excuse, or can even be an excuse, just trying to figure things out

[@oliviahendricks6967]

Frecklewish could have used her paw to save the kits she thought that a patrol would save them even though one was nowhere nearby, and she said the kits deserved

[@Kotop-o4p]

She legit never said the kits deserved it. There was a RiverClan patrol nearby that got Mapleshade out of the water. Did you even read Mapleshade’s Vengeance?

[@atlasjays-]

So all the cats that have died has broken the code in some way so they should all go to cat hell

[@graphitetailgrace3870]

My nominee is Furzepelt, actually. Not only did she train in the Dark Forest, she barely did anything against the stoats, and thus barely actually atoned for her actions. She also agreed to hide the Dark Forest's true plans from the Clans under Icebitch's *(I refuse to call Icewing by her real name because that dirty coward will never have my respect)* suggestion. To finish it, she mocks ThunderClan for missing Firestar even though she is indirectly responsible for his death by helping the Dark Forest cats prepare for the Great Battle. Overall, there is _very_ little reason for her not being in the Dark Forest, because even if she's not as bad as Tigerstar I and co., she's still a bad cat. Hollowflight also belongs IMO because he was totally ready to fight on the side of the Dark Forest and only fought for the Clans because Ivypool convinced him to, and didn't even get to try and atone for his betrayal because he died in the battle. (And rightfully so.) Sunstrike goes for the same reason.

[@thenyan3095]

Pretty sure both furzepelt and hollowflight both went to cat hell :/

[@graphitetailgrace3870]

@@thenyan3095 I feel like it, but it is never stated in the books or the wiki. They just died and never went anywhere. In Sunstrike's case, they mention her spirit with the dead ones, when Crookedstar personally dragged her there as soon as they were in the afterlife for all we know. (That'd be funny)

[@tjtheentertainer9376]

Here’s some I think should’ve gone to the Dark Forest: 1. Ashfur 2. Appledusk 3. Clear Sky/Skystar 4. Darkstar (RiverClan MV) 5. Darkstar (SkyClan) 6. Hawkheart 7. Onestar 8. Raggedstar 9. Ravenwing 10. Rowanstar/Rowanclaw

[@0.721x]

Appledusk,Ravenwing, Nor dark dusk have done anything morally wrong to end up in the dark forest. Now for Darkstar. Mapleshade isn’t her responsibility therefore she doesn’t need to take her in and ontop of that Thunderclan and Riverclan aren’t on good terms with each other. For ravenwing. The little dude was only doing his job. He gave Mapleshade plenty of chances to explain herself before he got fed up with her disrespectful attitude. And Appledusk all the man did was cheat that’s no reasons to go to the dark forest. As well as the deaths of Birchface and flowerpaw those were an accident he even admits it was an accident in like chapter 1 or either it was 4.

[@Snekelord12]

Appledusk, he deserves to be there.

[@Raven_Is_Baby]

YES

[@OrcaAnimus2292]

Who are the other two cats with the devil horns?

[@Littlefox1213]

Rainflower and Blackstar, I think?

[@sworishina]

Ravenwing and Oakstar should've gone to the Dark Forest as well TBH. Maybe Appledusk too.

[@Jin_Die]

why Ravenwing ?

[@0.721x]

Nah Appledusk and ravenwing did nothing wrong

[@sworishina]

@@0.721x appledusk cheated and ravenwing prioritized drama over the well-being of kits.

[@totallygarnular]

@@sworishina Have you read MV? Ravenwing stated himself that he was sorry for Mapleshade and even more sorry for the kits. Cheating isn't a valid reason for starving eternally

[@sworishina]

@@totallygarnular I have read MV. Ravenwing may have felt "sorry" but sorry doesn't fix what he did. And Appledusk didn't just cheat, he acted awful to Mapleshade and their kits when she showed up alone in the Clan.

[@cats22252]

Black star was possessed by sol 😢

[@Beulraeki]

BASWD

[@5rcane]

Based and FrecklePilled

[@Beulraeki]

@@5rcane YES!!! #Frecklewish4StarClan

[@blurryeyes8572]

SHE DID THO. She watched as Mapleshade's kits drowned and when she had learned who the real kits where alongside her father, along with Ravenwing, drove Mapleshade and her two month old kits out of the clan, clawing Mapleshade's face while she was at it!

[@kycinder]

Please don’t make me type an essay.

[@michellelopez2170]

Goosefeather might have the same reasons to be put in the Dark Forest. During Crookedstar's Promise, he's gathering herbs on Sunning Rocks when Oak-kit and Stormkit yell that Sunning Rocks belongs to Riverclan. Goosefeather shouts at them, scaring them away. This causes Stormkit to fall off the rocks and break his jaw. And while, no, he could not swim, the river wasn't flooded and he had no prior bad blood with Stormkit. There was nothing that could have stopped Goosefeather from helping him. Not even clan boundaries as medicine cats are supposed help cats from any clan. I don't know how he got into Starclan.

[@Chiswum]

Goosefeather went like erratic from being force fed a bunch of prophecies if I remember right. Hell, maybe he even knew abt Crookedkit breaking his jaw. I don't think Goosefeather deserves DF, he did make some bad choices tho. Not his fault Crookedkit wandered out of camp, yelled at him, then got spooked in return either

[@Blooood2699]

I mean one on one with you Apple dusk should of went to the dark f

[@susiepilled]

i dont think cheating is something deserving of eternal hell where your bitterness only grows. its shitty, yes, but all of thunderclan in MV should be in hell if appledusk should be. (they all advocated for the kits exile)

[@Blooood2699]

@@susiepilled it's not just cheating lol-

[@susiepilled]

@@Blooood2699 half-clan relationship: there is. a lot of these. and a lot DIDNT go to hell for it birchface: clear sky got into starclan. hes killed, frankly, a lot! wouldnt be fair

[@Blooood2699]

@@susiepilled I'm not saying that 0_0

[@Blooood2699]

@@susiepilled u know wut nvm -_-"

[@sweetwolfsteve5583]

Frecklewish did deserve to go to the dark forest she let 3 innocent kits drown without lifting a paw to help them or even comfort maple shade about her kits deaths The Warrior Cats website addressed Frecklewish's placement in the Dark Forest, and explained that she was sent there because she was "careless with the lives of kits because she is angry, and she assumes that someone else will take the responsibility of trying to save them [...] Frecklewish's callow negligence toward three kits in danger, and her lack of remorse for their eventual death, means she belongs in the Dark Forest."[2] this is from the wiki now quit defending that stupid useless excuse for a cat she's in the dark forest and will stay there no matter what people say to defend her

[@Littlefox1213]

It isn’t Frecklewish’s fault that they crossed the river, it wasn’t her choice it was entirely Mapleshade’s. No one told her to compel her kittens into a raging river. It might've been a better shortcut but Mapleshade knew about the bridge so we have no idea what she was thinking when she planned to cross it. She did indeed call Mapleshade’s kits, “half-clan creatures,” which is something that'll crevasse the poor little ones but that's all the harm she's done to the kits. She couldn’t do anything once the huge wave had hit Mapleshade and her kits, a RiverClan patrol was nearby anyway, there was no way in a million years she would swim in a flash flood just to make it to Mapleshade’s kittens who are nowhere as big as a mouse and are closer to the RiverClan border. She’d get herself killed or saved by the RiverClan patrol. I doubt she’d ever think Mapleshade would endanger the life of her kits, seeing how much she loved them back in camp. Frecklewish did not let her kits die, they were probably nowhere in sight once that massive surge pushed the family off the stepping stones. Mapleshade shoves the blame on a RIVER and Frecklewish just because she thinks that the choices she makes in her life and for her own kits is something she’s doing right so once it’s gone all wrong, she’ll try to squirm her way away from blame by pointing her claw to someone else. She was indeed hallucinating but that can’t excuse what she’s done. Frecklewish doesn’t deserve cat hell, even if she tried to help Mapleshade might find it as not enough or that she wasn’t even trying. Like c’mon, she didn’t even believe that she thought her kittens would be safe and even affronts her with the death of her children. We can’t do anything now, for sure they won’t change their decision anytime soon so I guess we need to deal with the choice they made, which in my opinion is a bad one if these many people are complaining now. Like fr, imagine placing someone in hell for not swimming in a flash flood but have some mother go to heaven after she rejected to raise her own son. StarClan is broken and so is the website.

[@cawingcrows2072]

She... couldnt swim.... What about their MOTHER??? Who lead them to a river, DURING a STORM, KNOWING none of them could swim well, but also it was STORMING-- Was Frecklewish kind of a dick to three children by calling them creatures? Yea, but she was lied to by a selfish, callous women who told her that they belonged to her DEAD BROTHER. Mapleshade is not an innocent woman in this, and also Frecklewish saw that there were Riverclan cats nearby (WHO COULD SWIM AND GO SAVE THE KITS) so she didn't step in to save them. She wouldn't have been able to get to them, anyways. What about the patrol? Should they go too? What about Oakstar?? (He should yea)

[@Raven_Is_Baby]

She thought the kits would be fine!

[@birb70]

She didn’t assume for no reason, she literally SAW the river clan patrol. That would be like seeing firefighters approaching but still running into a burning house to save someone or something, y’know, very dangerous and illogical, even if it’s important. She’s a Thunderclan cat, she can’t SWIM, not any better than Mapleshade could, especially in a STORM. Also, her brother drowned in that same river, it’s no wonder why she wouldn’t be in the very least cautious around it- his apprentice, too, did while TRYING TO SAVE HIM, but ig yall wanted Frecklewish to try to do the same for Mapleshade and end up the same way.

[@robyndionne1182]

Frecklewish devered it

[@lobathewolf3021]

stop acting like she is innocent she said worse things

[@Raven_Is_Baby]

Like what?