CAVITY BACK IRONS OR BLADES MYTHS

[@MarkCrossfield]

Did this video surprise you and have you done a similar test when trying golf clubs? Let me know below and share this video with mates whoa re thinking of buying new irons.

[@quentindohnt]

I think lofts are irrelevant depending on the tech of a product, but nearly all the blokes i play with want to whinge about it somehow. Human Nature i suppose.I am catching up on your older vlogs gradually, and i must compliment you on the content. King regards Quent

[@factsunbiased5157]

How can you legitimately say they are the same when one is a 6 and one is a 7. I understand you matched the lofts, but the true comparison is 6 to 6 or 7 to 7. I enjoy this video and your content, but in this case you are off on the comparison.

[@MarkCrossfield]

Blake Deyhle d-plane rules all I guess.

[@factsunbiased5157]

Mark Crossfield keep up the good content! If we all agree all the time then we aren’t growing. Great thing about golf content and equipment is the variety. We can all find what we like. Thanks again.

[@warbutters]

At what distance in the flight is the apex reached?

[@donrickdon]

I used to be the biggest club Ho in the world, would literally be on eBay monthly swapping my irons. Have a good round buy some blades, have a crap round, swap for chunkies. Literally had hundreds of irons. Your channel has really helped my bank balance mark. It literally doesn’t matter. Although I fancy giving one length a go ;)

[@Dillinger251]

I love the fact that you challenge people’s preconceptions and cliches. I’ve learned so many things from you over the last 10 years that have completely changed the way I think about golf and the way I play and nearly EVERY one of these things has challenged a golfing cliche I have heard at my local club. It’s fascinating how people get drawn in by marketing and hearsay. Keep challenging the cliches, it’s what makes you different from other KZbin golf channels 👀

[@davo3138]

Spot on Mark! There is nobody on KZbin comes close to your vids mate. A sugar hit is sickly, last a short time and the come down is shortly after......

[@mattparsons946]

1:14 lol, did Dan say “At least we didn’t get ‘stuck in’”?

[@chriskirby70]

This can be applied to reviews on the tube of so many different products, and not just with golf products. Well done.

[@terrymiller1122]

Mark, great as always. At nearly 60 years of age I’ve gone back to blades. Can’t stand wide soles and springy faces. I notice no difference in height and my misses tend to be less offline. As always a decent swing produces decent results and a bad swing produces bad results, no mater the equipment.

[@brandoncjgrimes]

This is Daddy coming back home from vacation after he left the kids to look after the house. Only to find the kids did something wrong. Now daddy has to tell the kids what they did wrong lol 😂 all jokes but love this

[@Struieboy]

Brandon. A good Dad doesn’t try to humiliate the kids.

[@eddiereyes4861]

@@Struieboy I dont think hes humiliating them... if anything he is saying - there are misconceptions not based on facts "numbers" ans do to marketing your lead to believe other wise; buyer beware.

[@Struieboy]

Chatter Box. I think you’re probably right. I got a bit over emotional there for a moment. Im currently going through the male menopause and my hormones are all over the place.

[@SilverfoxThe]

Yes - totally agree. I play CBs myself, and it's tiring hearing that such and such a game improvement iron goes higher and longer. Compared to my CBs the lofts are often stronger by at least a club. It's no wonder no-one uses more than a 4-iron in such game improvement sets - that's like my 3-iron!

[@williammartella7616]

Mark, spot on. I went through a fitting at club champion, was told this new iron was better for me because more distance, lower spin, more forgiving, etc. Once we compared the trackman data, I noticed a few key things- new club almost exactly matched my current 5 iron numbers. Quick loft check proved the "new" 6 iron matched my old blade 5 iron loft. Yes, different shaft gave me slight difference, but I also think I was "mis-fit" for a shaft I couldn't load (based on my swing speed, when really I can go much softer and get better swing control). My old set up was fit using old true temper strain gauge system to map loading. Whole thing makes it tough to trust bigger companies sometimes

[@publicnmy147]

@markcrossfield never stop doing these videos, it's the main reason why i've stopped watching other golf channels. _Especially_ for reviews. So much bs in the industry trying to sell us new gear when it's obvious that everyone would benefit the most from lessons combined with (focused) practice in areas they need to improve rather than what they are already quite good at.

[@robmcd]

I’m brand new to this: I’ve swung some clubs before but years ago. Looking at drivers- there are so many telling me to not get the stealth because it’s a tough driver compared to the Rogue… but wouldn’t lessons make whatever driver i own during the lessons the best driver for me?

[@steelerfan76]

I have watched your reviews for years and the raw data that you have shown has helped me make purchases not on brand,but on performance related to my game. Keep the raw data coming, bruh!

[@richardmains5366]

This should be seen by every golfer and golf fitter in the country/world. Impeccable knowledge and use of equipment, i take my hat off to you sir.

[@MrJeanrichardquant]

I love this! I tell people all the time that any new "technology" that companies claim to have invented to give you more distance is just going down with the lofts and in commercials always use buzzwords like "Higher" "More spin" "Faster". What also probably happens when a normal person goes in for a fitting is that they do strike these new clubs better, you subconsciously think that these new clubs will help you hit better shots so your swing gets better for you to hit these shots. I currently have 10 year old irons in my bag and if I could just get the same heads and put my old shafts in them I'll be happy. Doing that will probably satisfy any "shiny new club" syndrome I may have.

[@perstrom2130]

Hahaha, I have been saying this for a long time to far more skilled players then me but no one has been listening, well now they probably will. Awesome again Mark, numbers are numbers and fact is fact 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@darrylrichardson7940]

Marks been saying get up Dan for months. when Dan says its going higher Mark gives him a bollocking you just cant win Dan

[@yadthink]

Of course, it's not just Dan, because Mark enjoys embarrassing others. It's the reason I (and probably 1000s of others) haven't subscribed, even though I appreciate his swing tips and how hard he works on his brand.

[@MrNickrat]

@@yadthink I think the channel needs a disclaimer stating its not for snowflakes.

[@rockrugbyref]

Dan's driver is one thing. The irons are another.

[@bobwhelan5644]

Enjoyed that, Dan given a lesson (and absent Matt too).

[@richief1957]

Mark is the best reviewer on KZbin, FACT. Keep up the good work bruh

[@Mrbeast0099]

Richie F no he’s not you just used a cliche

[@nigelday001]

I have a complaint....... In defence of Dan and Coach , they both perceived the G410 t have a higher ball flight , in truth as proved by your test Mark ...they were correct , in fact an astonishing 3% higher flight , notwithstanding the same ball speed and launch angle and spin .. great job Dam and Coach 😂🏌️⛳️🍻

[@leighd5017]

hahaha. Coach "laser eyes". @@michaelquinn8

[@geoffparry4203]

Your a voice in the wilderness Mark. Golfers will hear but few listen.

[@mkang]

I wish more reviews would approach the same way as you do Mark. Instead of pandering to their suppliers. Keep it up!

[@SkyboxerGolf]

Bottom line.. This video is a prime example of why I subscribe and love the content Mark and the gang do. Love it!

[@rcp2bTube]

Absolutely brilliant Mark. What a nice way to skewer the other KZbinrs who deliver to audiences' erroneous assumptions.

[@texmex697]

Still glad to see Crossa talking real honest sense after all these years. Perceived launch angles, distance and numbers on the bottoms of clubs do not change physics. I have a complaint, Crossa playing Titleist!!! Surely not... once Mizzy always Mizzy.

[@ZeppelinRules92]

“Do your clichés, but then confirm it with some data.” Love that, Mark! I actually thought the complaint was going to be about Daniel-San saying he “normally comes out on top of these challenges.” 😂 🙈

[@Itsthejourneynotthedestination]

You have your critics fella but no one else in golf YT world has such fascinating content like you, superb watching.

[@php4u]

Well said, Mark. Sorry I am just watching this (over 1 year later), but I agree with your assertion about challenging pre-conceived perceptions. I appreciate your perspective to challenge misconceptions. Keep up the terrific work/analysis.

[@mcfly2727]

Dan:...."..at least we didn't get stuck in..." Proper LOLS! #RoflosaurusRex

[@BrianHallmanac]

And it sailed right on by Mark. He didn't miss a beat of what he was saying at the time. Love it! 😂

[@freddy8345]

One of the reasons why people get angry when you shoot down the "guff" in new club reviews is because they just purchased based on the guff and may have been too lazy or cheap to spend the money for a proper fitting that would have showed them that the guff didn't actually produce results.

[@PkGam]

I guess since this was addressed, complaints on this from here on out can just go straight to the paper shredder! ;D Gotta' admit this myself, I actually thought the same about Blades for the longest time. But I tried them more scientifically and the differences from Cavity Backs were negligible. That's actually a pretty cool thing to know because it means that anyone can play blades if they want to. 7:07 - Ben Hogan still makes clubs with lofts on the bottom rather than regular numbers. So manufacturers that do so still exist. Pretty' far and few though. I too like that idea better than the P through 4 system because it actually is accurate to what you'd expect and it even matches most Wedges since they tend to stamp the loft on the bottom.

[@MarkJohnson-bs4hp]

This is what custom fitting is supposed to eliminate. Preconceptions in all fields cloud judgements. That's why drug companies give placebo drugs to part of their test personnel. Science requires fact before a theory is proven so we should follow similar ideas in golf. Spot on Mark. Keep it going.

[@cheezburger6130]

That was just a test to see if Mark was paying attention. Good job Dan and Matt and Mark.

[@tylerlove2052]

This type of video is exactly why I watch Mark! Always challenging people to think. So hard to avoid bringing preconceptions into a club test. Doubt Coach will do another review now for quite a while!

[@thierrypilette6841]

Eye opening video. @Mark: I've always followed your presentations since the beginning precisely because you back your ideas up with solid data. Please don't change 😎

[@chrishose9977]

Best thing I've seen anyone do ever on you tube, brilliant mate.

[@wraithconscience]

Mark sticks to the facts! Loving it!

[@royemansburms7082]

One of the best video’s ever !! With powerbats I miss left/right short and wide. With mij M18SC I miss Left/right.

[@anothergolflesson]

Thanks for always bringing up the facts Mark. The cliches you can get from anywhere. I'll watch your videos anytime over mainstream golf media.

[@martinhadleigh5890]

I love all the technology that is available to assess what the club is doing/achieving as it contacts the ball. It also helps that you know what you are talking about and can back it up 👊.

[@JuanRodriguez-wk7mm]

This is one of the reasons i like Mark and watch his videos.

[@quentindohnt]

Absolutely we talk ourselves into thinking errors.

[@robertbascomb2477]

So glad you pointed this out! It’s a great “gut check” for those of us who review, fit, and teach to remember if we are going to fall into the cliches of golf we better have the data to back it up or we are going to end up with egg on our face one day. Just like poor Coach and Dan 😂. I loved the review though. You just had to know Mark was going to “get you” on something.

[@yadthink]

Question: Assuming GC Quad determines peak height by calculation, how accurate is the peak height number? And if you measured shots with both GC Quad and Trackman, would you get the same peak height number consistently?

[@jamesharrison5004]

100 lines each "I must not use cliches in club reviews without backing it up with data".

[@duanemari11]

Spot on Mark! I believe any average ball striker without a MAJOR swing fault can game any set of modern Irons they chooses. Especially if playing a shaft, loft and lie that they are familiar with.

[@kingofrs125]

I’m surprised u don’t have more subscribers mark definitely the best reviewer on youtube and always will be. Unlike some reviewers on KZbin that click bait 24/7 and say the same thing all the time just to get views but ur right on this video and always right mr guru keep up the gd work sir

[@dalesmith1982]

one of the best bollockings, I have seen in a while. Dan has his tail between his legs now. coach will not care!! great vid mark, keep them up

[@jeffreybessent3591]

Awesome video! Keep challenging em! Every golfer should watch this video!

[@matthewcroad7218]

Bloody Brilliant Mark.Great work.Got a bit confusing half way through then at the end the penny dropped.Flippin quality Bruh

[@mattmilford8761]

When I was a student a of yours you caught me out on this. We were working on altering flight and you’d call is the higher or lower, then showed I was wrong and the preception was well off

[@davidwharton6333]

On a feeling miserable day this review really made me smile. I feel a learn something every time I watch one of your equipment reviews. thanks!

[@paulhudson2293]

Quick question on this one then, cavity backs help launch the ball higher, but they don't peak higher than a well struck blade? If that swing speed were a bit slower though, the peak height would be different, and the cavity back would go higher? Is there a swing speed at which cavity backs make a significant difference, or conversely, make no difference? I'd be interested to understand that further.

[@simland]

Since the end result is rather similar, is there a benefit to having a lower launch angle? What's the descent angle or roll out of the various clubs? Does this hold true through each club in the set with comparable lofts? Does this mean that one set gives you longer reach, but require you supplement with more wedges? Lovely bit of info here, just raises more questions that I'd like to investigate.

[@mgnmpl]

Maybe I don’t get something, but doesn’t it make more difference for slower speed swings? I mean Dan and Coach are swinging the club much faster then the average Joe who is the one to buy G410. Won’t he see the difference with height?

[@after2am150]

I love the data and the on course. People's egos get in the way to much in golf. I just want to learn so i can make the right choices whether buying or playing.

[@jeffjones5257]

The only thing that could have made this better would have been to have Coach come walking in and try to defend himself. Great job by all of you.

[@brandonhuddleston7310]

This video is a perfect example, of why MC is one of the best. 👍🏼

[@maamold]

It's a constant battle between blades and cavity backs. At the moment my old MP-32's with S300 shafts are behaving better than my p770 with KBS Tour Stiff shafts. I feel like I'm hitting the 32's better and just as far. The lie, length, weight, swingweight and shaft are just fitting me better so I swing better with them. I doubt that the clubhead is leaps and bounds better or worse because one is a blade and one is a cavity.

[@gabardjean-paul3779]

Allais about Launch angles, speed and total weight of the club. If there are all equals then you get the same results and you demonstrated it !

[@samuelnation5300]

Amazing if true, but when I demo’d TM M3 and M4 they certainly appear to fly considerably higher to the point I considered it a possible detriment in wind. Maybe it was launch angle but it sure didn’t look that way to me. No preconceptions either...I had no idea what they would do.

[@eddiex72]

Good stuff here. All in good fun. I do enjoy Dan’s solo videos as well. Glad you suggested they keep rolling. Dan’s video on driver launching is one I saved. He didn’t say: “Let’s get stuck in...” on that one either. 😂

[@grahamlynch9727]

Agree with getting Matt and Dan on more reviews! Really enjoyed them!

[@gregwalker4236]

both you guys are so good you could hit a dr pepper bottle like lee trevino. i'd like to see everybody try these two clubs on a course with good turf and not the hardpan or grassless turf i've seen in the last few years. yes, i am advocating for two sets of irons--one forged and one set of scrapers for the parking lot golf. love your videos--it's almost like getting out there and carrying on like a one eyed dog in a butcher shop!

[@bjalloway1988]

Ask and you shall receive!!! More Coach and Dan. Good mix of hilarity and knowledge between all you guys.

[@jsnyder0512]

I still want the G30s, the Gs, and the G400s. Now there are G410s, damn. I’m just going to stay “ Stuck In “ with my G25s. Great video!

[@Jammin6796]

could it be that peak height is attained earlier on the 410s and similar clubs compared to blades giving the perception that its going higher.. yet its only attaining that height earlier in the flight opposed to the blades which penetrate and rise near the end of flight ..

[@paulmilsom1346]

I think Mark said that in the video, the launch angle difference making the peak height being attained earlier. I don't think it matters if they are blades or cavity back, it's more the lofts....I think

[@Jammin6796]

@@paulmilsom1346 the newer(helper clubs) promote higher ball flight earlier oppose to blade and bladed cavity backs.. a 36%blade will not get the ball higher faster the same as a 36% helper club...

[@paulmilsom1346]

@@Jammin6796 ok, probably to do with weight distribution, more weight being lower in the "helper clubs" ?

[@celestialcelica1590]

So if the launch angle changes along with the flight than the wind will affect it a lot more too, right? I feel like we need a side shop to see the flight shape.

[@seanphillips4623]

Play a lot of golf (+3 golfer) I know Mr Crossfield sometimes divides opinion but he is very very rarely wrong. I think these types of videos are much more thought provoking than driver v driver videos etc. Keep challenging and questioning 👍

[@jeremyansell6797]

Brilliant Mark, brilliant! I haven’t quite followed your channel for ten years (I think it’s ten years you’ve been doing it...not sure you mentioned it 😉) it’s just the six for me! 😇 😇 But the rubbish content that is out there, is filling the minds of so many golfers it’s making it painful having conversations on course and in the clubhouse about the game I love. It’s not quite a revolution, but keep it up brah - we need a ‘truth leader’ as much as we need a leader of the army. #truthleader #bannedcontent #leader #lockeyarmy

[@jaredfernandez1990]

My favorite part about videos like this is the audience plays right into what Mark said. The video already has 18 down votes (as of my watching). How do you argue with numbers? The launch monitor isn't biased on what club is being hit, it's just reading data off of the ball & club face

[@timzinanni9796]

I understand and appreciate Marks point, he’s spot on! However, Dan was correct the Ping was launching and flying higher.

[@robingladstone5869]

I moved from ping G irons last year to mizuno MP15 and my ball striking has improved with the “better player” irons. Would be good if club makers put the lofts on them.

[@bjarkebk3735]

many times it comes down to what you wanna look at .. clubs today are not that dif.... i just gone for the srixon 785 .. tryes the callaway apex . and it looked to chunky for me . but almost same numbers .. looks is where you chose today

[@p1miguel999]

Love it Mark. having played all types , blades, cavity, chunky, it doesn't really matter. I go out, I shoot low 80's with all of them. lol Putting is where i need to work. 27 putts a round is killing me.

[@newmanfertig886]

Good analysis and talk. Keep 'em coming Mark.

[@yoopermichigan]

Love the channel guys...what is the cause of the higher launch angle? Perhaps you can see one yard difference, Dan and Matt are quite perceptive. When are you taking a golfing tour of Wisconsin?

[@d.a.stacey4808]

Nailed it...we all look at youtube reviews by yourself, Rick Andy and Piers, Mick Newton etc etc and think we know these clubs before we have even picked them up.Guilty! Ordered a set of PIng g410s on thursday .Walking into my fitting I knew what I wanted and what I did not want.Lucky for me the data I got coincided with the club that suited my eye. Phew...

[@rickroche583]

Another Really really good piece of work, ironically I am preparing to replace my irons and I am trying to separate the fact from the fiction. So these insights and the reviews help. I feel I have a little more confidence trying clubs and having at least a small degree of knowledge....THANK YOU

[@michaelbrewer7389]

Keep telling us the truth Mark - learned more in the last 3 years than I did in the previous 25!

[@jimrohnstock9913]

Don't do it Mark. Keep having both Dan and Coach reviewing clubs. Some of the best comments and fun.

[@MarkCrossfield]

I love them doing reviews don’t worry.

[@Rehle94]

Great video!! No club whacking too. Epic

[@myopenmind527]

Counterintuitive! Great explanation Mark!

[@seanadachi9795]

I have burners 09 and tested against cb710. Did the the same test. And got the exact same results

[@clivetaylor6501]

I've been thinking this. A modern 7 iron, with less loft, is simply a 6 iron in old money. I play irons with old-style lofts, i.e. 35° 7 iron etc. If I want 30° I use my 6 iron. A lot of clubs have just been renumbered to sell them as distance clubs. However, the ball speed off some of the modern hollow-design clubs is another matter I guess?

[@antd684]

Complaint dismissed...@ 9:52 stated similar lofts struck in similar places...So was @CoachLockey hitting consistently similar places ...

[@richarddavey7884]

Mark, when you did it with the blades, did you find the blades actually fly a little higher, I’ve always personally found them to fly higher than “game improvement” clubs?

[@seanmullins5982]

I love this stuff. I bet you were drooling when u first watched the review weren’t you Mark.... but in all honesty I have been saying the same thing for years now thanks to all your studies. So glad I found you years ago as you have provided me with a free education on this stuff. Only wish I had the game to back it lol 😂. Cheers Mr Cross 🍻👏🏌️

[@davidfletcher6836]

Oh dear are Matt and Dan banned from being left alone with a camera and new clubs , incidents 😂

[@graemefinlayson2032]

Hey, have you measured hitting off the mat vs off grass? Any difference in the numbers? Launch/spin/peak height.

[@thomasp565]

Hey Parfield...I recall seeing some stats that basically said the apex of a shot was basically the same regardless of loft/club for a player. The only difference is how long it takes to get to that apex. For example, a full lob wedge would have the same apex as a driver but the driver apex would be 200 yards away vs lob wedge apex would be 30 yards away. Could you test that at all?

[@tristangregory3536]

Aww...poor D&L (I liked them as team BTW). Hogan FT Worth 15 irons are stamped with lofts. I have started using them and it has taken away my "macho" need to want to hit the same "number" iron as my playing partners, even though I use a blade and they use power bats....just hit the right club...keep up the good work guys TG

[@davidfinn9828]

Mark love all your reviews and on cource testing , i was thinking about this review when i went to test the ping i210 irons and ordered them in power lofts as i feel i will get more distance with a shorter shaft and as long as i know my yardages golf should be a little easier to play 😜

[@Ekis86]

Are you taking into consideration that players like me 15hcp would see more of a difference in the numbers week in week out? Confidence when standing over the ball, misshits, duffs and thins are all in the mix and after testing a blade for a while I was so happy coming back to my aeroburner Irons. On good hits there is little to no difference, sure, but that is not the game I play.

[@billstanisci9807]

I noticed that the G410 has the same spin as the "blade". So for a club going 6 irons distance it performs as a six iron. It is not a low spin iron.

[@donstage933]

You hit on a pet peeve of mine as well. Preconceived notions get people to hit a club that way. We took a Srixon and told people it was a cheap knock off since they didn't know the name and they hit it very poorly and said they could tell it was made cheap.

[@mcjose5907]

Ok, a 7 and a 6 iron with the same loft, approximately, if not exactly. But what's the length of each shaft. Not necessarily in this specific test, but generally. What impact does a quarter inch shaft length have on a club where the loft is identical. Good vid, but the shaft length has rarely been mentioned in comparisons of 7s and 6 irons etc with the same lofts?

[@sderden]

1/2 inch and you're going to dismiss the facts? Get out!

[@Nunfa0]

Brilliant Mark, I really enjoyed the video by the boys but didn't notice the height comments. You keep fighting the cliches and I will keep watching

[@chubbspetersonshand6496]

Why do we buy into the cliche's so much? Is it because we WANT to believe the new tech IS really helping? As someone who who sells clubs and fits people (often friends of mine) I find myself having to dial them back a bit when trying new things! They will say; Oh thats way longer than my old one and i'll say lets look at the numbers and they often are very similar! I try to get focus more on what that new club feels like and do they just WANT a new one or are they trying to improve on something. Very interesting watching their responses!

[@grahamtomlin3272]

Excellent video, but a question, why not just buy the clubs that suit your eye and cost far less than the premium brands and forget all the hype?

[@dustintitterington1856]

You just got another subscriber for that bit of honesty! Always enjoy your content👍🏻

[@maxcaysey2844]

Did Mark say, that there is too much offset on the MBs, and thats what tour pros dont like? Because checking Titlesist homepage, the MBs has the least offset of their range, and less that even quite some clubs back... I'm not sure I understand...