Missing WWII Stirling LJ850 Found

An archaeologist thinks he's located the wreckage of a downed WWII plane whose crew included two Canadian airmen.
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[@JimBryson-ow7cm]

My uncle was one of the SAS team on board that aircraft, Cpl William Bryson who was one of the early members of No1 commando prior to joining the SAS. I fully support any effort to excavate by qualified persons to verify LJ850s last resting place and if any remains are found I fully support any DNA investigation to ID them I have lived in NZ for the last 50 years and would very much like to be kept informed on any developments that occur. Thankyou Jim

[@Rickertsred]

Having lost two relatives who were never recovered in WW-2, I hope these men can be brought home.

[@llewev]

My uncle flew in Stirlings with 620 squadron and went on these sorts of missions too. His aircraft was shot down and lost on a resupply mission over Arnhem during the Market Garden operation on the 20th September 1944. He and two of his fellow crew-men survived and returned to England.

[@Redmow51]

Bring them home. With full military honors. They died for us. They deserve that much.

[@imcavdb5465]

Maybe he would rather be lying with his mates?

[@Redmow51]

@@imcavdb5465 And maybe he would rather be where his family can visit his grave.

[@sandeeolding5915]

How in the dear Lord's name can people put a thumbs down. Shame on you!

[@HiVizCamo]

Trolls of the New CBC, content like this is not part of the new narrative. I miss the old CBC, stamped out just a few years ago. Mansbridge's retirement and Canada 150 seem to have been the pressing of a corporate reset button.

[@stephenvince9994]

Evil exists even more today. Important to recognise it when you see it.

[@Blagger3000]

There are many who pride themselves with their own meanness,lack of heart and spinelessness who think it big and clever to be negative with everything they see. These people are a curse on themselves they are the scum of our civilisation.

[@michaelmayfield4304]

Easy to understand. They are persons with no moral compass or honor.

[@hectorkeezy1499]

Probably some french clown..

[@Ferreal92]

After watching WWII films my whole life, I always thought the bomber aircraft used were indestructible. It wasn't until I attended an airshow and saw just how fragile they actually were. The skin of the aircraft was so thin you could probably fall through if you stepped in the wrong place, and absolutely nothing was designed for comfort or protection. And I can't imagine the amount of noise one must have endured for hours on end. Seems like the most nightmarish experience imaginable, but most likely for a 19 year old of that era, the most exciting and noble experience of his life that could never possibly be equaled.

[@darrellborland119]

@Ramond Ferreal...an excellent response. My father was in rcaf...visited Germany in a most unfriendly manner back then. If not for a bicycle injury in 1943, I may not be here to write this response. Thanks.

[@BobandBear1]

Read "Enemy Coast Ahead" by Guy Gibson, it's a fascinating insights into the early years of Bomber Command. The aircraft were so antiquated,it is hard, or impossible to imagine what must have gone through the crews minds. They were sittings ducks..and they knew it, yet still they went night after night, in a very casual manner in the early days. Go and see a show, come back and fly off on a sortie whenever they got back, maybe just the one aircraft, or two etc....nothing like the complicated massed raids of the Harris Era. Gibson relates one incident, where the pilot of a Hampden is fireing a pistol at an attacking fighter..before he is sent to into oblivion. They had no protective firepower from a flank attack. To witness such a sad and futile attempt to fight back and still climb in the aircraft for the next trip and the next and .....beggars belief. Impossible to comprehend the mindset those young lads had back then.

[@consul6262]

@@BobandBear1 Another excellent book is Bomber by Len Deighton.

[@BobandBear1]

Thanks, will dig that one out

[@imapaine-diaz4451]

That is correct. I have seen a restored type of these aircraft and the basic idea was to carry the maximum weight of bombs possible. that means that everything else on the aircraft had to be made as lightweight as possible. lightweight materials don't give much protection against bullets or shrapnel, and insulation against temperature and noise wasn't a factor either. the comfort and protection of the crew was only considered in the light of their ability to accomplish their mission of delivering the bombs on target. all else was secondary at best. you definitely had to be tough to fly in these aircraft!

[@neilhall676]

If it’s proved to be an RAF a/c the RAF and the British Government have a duty to investigate this site . Only a full scale archeological dig will suffice. May they RIP

[@worldwarwill1278]

Unfortunately that’s not how it works. A lot of modern armies have archaeological units, but Germany for example are not really interested unless a large amount of remains are found, eg a long forgotten war cemetery. This is why it is often down to amateur archaeologists or groups to undertake investigations and excavations.

[@johnnyfire3860]

World War Will but this is in France. Theres no damn way they should block the retrieval of these soldiers/airmen’s bodies. Its just Unacceptable

[@worldwarwill1278]

@@johnnyfire3860 I totally agree, it’s shameful that this happens. These soldiers deserve to be laid to rest with honour!

[@damit505]

Rip too those brave men who at ages 19 and upwards flew every night knowing they probably won’t come back

[@jackhunsucker3220]

As a grandson of a 82nd Airborne paratrooper who did make it home, my heart goes out to the families of service men who didn't. The French who's holding the permits up to find these brave men, shame on them. These men gave their life to free France and the rest of Europe, shame on you. Thank you to the world's Greatest Generation, there is and always will be those who will never forget you

[@30mmavenger]

To those who be, please pass that digging permit asap so these heroes can have a proper and dignified Military funeral they so rightfully deserve. May they rest in peace.

[@ApexStone]

I wonder where one could write to in support of this excavation operation.

[@SourEggz]

+Peter Campbell Yes. Where is the contact information!

[@ApexStone]

+Sour Eggz I bet if we wrote The National they could connect us with the appropriate authorities.

[@828enigma6]

You're not funny. Go make a joke about your dead.

[@patrickhenry6695]

Bring those boys home, finally

[@bsponge3656]

ElectroSalvo how is that funny

[@rhysstanley7387]

@ElectroSalvo how's it funny.

[@fredflintstome6532]

Amazing story that they have been found due to people that are still looking. Well done from Australia

[@TheGearhead222]

Very sad. My Dad's oldest brother, a Sherman Tank Commander in the Canadian army, was buried in Sicily close to where he fell-John in Texas

[@cd7652]

118 thumbs down now? It saddens me to see it. My grandfather served as a Tail Gunner on B-17’s and was lucky to make it home. What a shame some people can’t see the big picture.

[@edlawrenson4005]

They are our service men who fought for our freedom .We cannot forget them ! They deserve a proper military funeral and their remaining families deserve to know their final resting place.We cannot forget what they sacrificed for us.- Ed

[@angelamary9493]

They died so that we today live .. we will Remember them 🙏 my family fought in Two World Wars .some in the Army ..some in the RAF ..

[@frankycompagnone7356]

I would like to thank this man and all who suffered the same fate. I'm deeply indebted..

[@flyingcatsofthesalishsea.]

Rest easy West Coast BC fly boys, rest easy, you will never be forgotten...

[@williamprince1114]

To the crew and SAS members ...... Thank You. We are forever in your debt.

[@halbunner9833]

God Bless these Great Men.

[@robharris5467]

I'm surprised the Commonwealth War Graves Commission hasn't investigated.

[@berthalloway9953]

All who gave their all need to be remembered. So many young gave all for us

[@1942PANTHERV]

all soldiers lost on foreign soil..should come home

[@benschmidt3967]

They will still be finding them in hundreds of years. their still in farmers fields. Some may wish to remain buried. others are in sea graves. that and unexploded ordinance...dial before you dig... Well they found him and gave him full honors.

[@alexfogg236]

1942PANTHERV , I couldn't agree with you more.

[@Dalesmanable]

Your home or theirs? Like Private Ryan in Saving Private Ryan, many saw their comrades as their brothers and wanted to be buried with them. UK policy in WW2 was to bury fatalities with their comrades where they died, dictated by public opinion as much as practical necessities, and the relatives of newly-discovered casualties have elected to continue this tradition. Current UK policy on casualties is to bring their bodies back to the UK, a reflection of the relatively small number of casualties and the dangers to graves from hostile natives as much as the wishes of relatives.

[@bsponge3656]

I agree

[@JoeFlation]

They did for us, we need to do for them, all else would be lacking honor

[@exJacktar]

My Uncle Walter Buckwell fell in May 43. He and his crew that fell are buried in Holland, it would be nice for Ben's family if they can put him to rest at last. In the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them.

[@mgytitanic1912]

One of my relatives crashed in Spain in August 1942. He and his crew are buried in the military cemetery outside of Bilbao.

[@Norwichaviationspotter1]

gurka321 my great grandads uncle died when his bomer was shot down in flames exploding only one crew member suvived not my great uncle

[@connorcincinnati]

Keep up the good work. We all benefit when people work hard to bring peace and honor to our fellow human beings

[@colonialdad1]

To all the commonwealth forces, As a British citizen, i will always be grateful for your sacrifice. Thank you. Always loved and remembered.

[@Farweasel]

Dreadful aeroplane. My dad flew as a flight engineer in RAF recce/bombers. Said the aircraft had nicknames amongst the RAF crews. The called the Stirling 'the flying coffin'. He never flew in a Stirling and was very happy to keep it that way.

[@p.r.solarski535]

Thank you for sharing story

[@terrymiksic1755]

P. R. Solarski jñ

[@Dalesmanable]

Don't fall for the presenter's narrative on the digging permit; the French authorities are being reasonable and correct. We are talking about a war grave where the wishes of the relatives and accepted Service policy take priority over his hobby. Furthermore, there were 23 men on board, thus making the process even more complicated and lengthy, and the violence of their deaths means that recovering and identifying them is not a job for amateurs.

[@brucesweatman2146]

bullshit, any delay for them is a crime in itself!! enough with the bullshit and get on with it!!

[@jgonzalez101]

Thank you for sharing this heartfelt story. I pray there truly will be a ending that will bring closer to Airman Profits life story, as well as the others on that perilous Flight. ❤🙏

[@daveinthephillipines7055]

What a good story and hope they find those air crew so can be laid to rest R.I.P.

[@bodge6886]

This mans brother knew any flight could be the last. Brave men.

[@helenabiesma5560]

brilliant efforts on the family behalf love this story - lovely done and they say 75000 are lost and that is 75000 too many

[@rodgeyd6728]

RIP Lads. Lost , never forgotten. Permit needed! Shameful refusal. And to the 👎, shame on you.

[@jimreilly917]

Probably not refusal…but France wants to do it right. 23 families have dead in that grave. That’s what it is…a gravesite. This is not work for a hobbyist. It is work for military and civilians experienced in body recovery…with dignity. Then they can be laid to rest…in their own land, with full military honors according their due and family wishes. God Rest our brave Allied dead.🇬🇧🇨🇦🇦🇺. From an American USAF veteran.

[@kieronbevan7489]

heck of s job sorting out who's who after a crash like that. intense heat and molten airframe, scavengers etc. war is a terrible waste

[@wellsmotorsports2783]

To the 80 that thumbs down you will probably have a special place in hell... just saying

[@jxavier3876]

Wells Motorsports you do not k ow their motives

[@robocop2asap]

Shall we here more of this situation we all would love to i am sure.

[@jimmybrown169]

You would think they could at least close off area and put something up recognizing it as a crash site with date of crash and who they suspect perished there

[@dfrozendog3849]

My Father was MIA in WWII. My Grandmother knew he was alive in her heart. During this time they both had dreams that matched. Things like him dreaming that he was knocking on the front door and her dreaming sleep walking getting up and answering the door letting him in. Many different ones connected like this. He was a POW. Purple Heart with 3 Oak Clusters. He lost 1/2 his body weight and said the Germans at this point were starving also. The good old days? They are only the different old days.

[@mollycaz1]

Bring them home do not leave them in cow feild in France

[@worldwarwill1278]

It’s sad to say, but it’s a lot more complicated then this short video makes out, you have to consider many factors here. It is sad that these brave men rest where they do, but sometimes it can’t be helped..

[@RobDavisTelford]

F/S Stopford is not listed as a casualty so was probably a Prisoner of War, and F/S Profit was married, yet there is no mention of this. Fascinating and clearly more research to be done.

[@Dalesmanable]

There are actually 23 missing men from LJ850, the 7 aircrew plus a 16-man SAS team.

[@pieterfischer9638]

The 16 man SAS team may have bailed already by the time it crashed... either then captured or killed. And may also have been taken to concentration camps and died there.

[@stubs1227]

pieter fischer most likely died in the plane they also were classified as missing in action along with the crew.

[@animalyze7120]

If it's still in limbo, I would ask respectfully that the French government & locals immediately allow the area to be excavated so the remains of these brave souls can be properly interred, and the families can have closure. It hurts no one to dig in a field and the animals can be put into another field at little to no cost till the exhumations are completed. I believe the soldiers who still lay there not only earned it but truly deserve this.

[@Bruce-1956]

We will remember them.

[@flaminglaughter]

How in the world can the government stop them from searching. Why would they?

[@hermansligman]

We will remember them!

[@shawndrasass1316]

Bring those men Home!

[@Pete-qo7bv]

Has anyone seen any updates on this?

[@davidschumaker5262]

Just a permit is needed from keeping these hero's from going home? Who's the Vichy?

[@duxberry1958]

is there a part 2 ....

[@katherineb.3140]

Respect and honor to those brave heroes that died so that others could be liberated from the Nazis. May they continue to rest and peace. My thoughts and prayers are with their families. God bless. 🙏✝️

[@THE-HammerMan]

Did the permit ever get approved? The fact it was denied is not surprising... it's friggin' France. Any other country would have sent their own team out to assist.

[@hugh9park]

Remote logging community called half moon bay, pretty crazy to think of as that!

[@angelamary9493]

We Will Remember Them 🙏

[@mitcha1065]

My grandfather's brother was killed in a Short Sterling in 1941. He was never found.

[@1969JohnnyM]

There was 7 members of the aircrew not 6 and it also had 16 SAS (Special Forces) members on board so the crash site is a mass grave of 23 men of whom 20 were British, 2 were Canadian and one Australian. It would be nice if the crash site had a small tasteful memorial put in place and the men were left to lie in peace.

[@bret9741]

Any more news on this site?

[@user-pk1yh1wf2p]

bring the heroes home to rest in their land

[@MrG-wq5pb]

Am I wrong or is that the old guy in the cabin from the film shooter with Mark whalburg

[@theprofiler8531]

That old man as in reality a great country singer. Look him up you’ll be surprised.

[@zypher3018]

let them search for the missing aircrew & paratroopers. it is important to the families of the missing as it should be important to all of us.

[@avianvista1420]

"The Hardest Goodbye is our last Forever."

[@456swagger]

I doubt they went down in the Channel. A lot of Bombers were lost on those type of missions where they attempted to insert parachutists in to the enemy held territories. A lot of the missions were compromised from the beginning and so the aircraft and service members were lost.

[@MohitMakhija13]

SO SAD

[@skyislands8887]

, Honouring the site a permanent memorial, leaving the RAF crew and SAS members eternally as comrades in arms would show so much respect. Lest we forget.

[@standupstraight9691]

Hadn't realised they were using stirlings at that stage of the war.

[@ianhudson9398]

Even stranger that in 1943 it was supposed to be carrying SAS members when the SAS didn't operate outside Italy and North Africa until 1944 when they were withdrawn to UK to train for D-Day.......🤔 At least..... that's what the SAS history says.....

[@mgytitanic1912]

Interesting the permit was blocked. Normally the French are very good about allowing excavations of military wrecks, especially if the crew are still there.

[@bsponge3656]

This is so sad why won't they let them bring back thoughs brave souls

[@tonyroberts6500]

The French authorities are preventing this search? Shame on them if this is so.

[@ignfan4life]

What kind of station wagon was he driving at 5:15? It looks like a Tesla, but I don't think they make a station wagon.

[@mgytitanic1912]

Stop with the correction of grammatical errors Anthony. It's not big and it is not clever.

[@constitution_8939]

Though the information has not surfaced, not yet, I'd assume it safe to say that a plane of that size, a four engine bomber, exploding into a French field would have had the wreckage carted away and all human remains buried somewhere close by. I'd venture to guess that the paratroopers had bailed out prior to the crash and may have actually done so at their intended drop site. It all depends on whether the bomber crew actually achieved their mission as they may have been shot out of the air afterwards, hopefully anyway. Any bits of wreckage that were buried below the surface at different depths due to the impact velocity can still be found on the site but the larger sections of the fuselage and engines what the narrator had said kids were playing on/around were removed at some point probably after the war which was only 10 months later. The smaller bits such as what the gentleman had already found were blown clear by ammunition cooking off in the initial fire and being dispersed all over the perimeter of the impact site hence the Sten cartridges and magazines he found. With that, it is highly improbable any human remains would be found at the crash site as it was common procedure to bury the dead in even a Unknown Soldiers plot in a village/town cemetery. That is where they should look.

[@constitution_8939]

It turns out from a news report of the incident that the paratroopers never got out of the plane and that they and the crew all perished in the crash. So, a finger, a limb or even a skull might still be found at the site.

[@tobycroninger2464]

you need a permit to do that so they can finish the story of Ben and the crew of he aircraft and the 28 paratroopers.

[@darrenmarchant1720]

let the man dig. send in the time team!

[@scottfuller5194]

I am a 40 year Veteran of the Canadian Forces (32 yrs Reg Force and 8 yrs Res Force service)..........My hobby is researching Missing In Action (MIA) Canadians and I have become adamant that our nation needs a full time MIA agency, totally seperate from the clown fish in Vets Affairs.....! If anyone would like to join this effort, please contact me.....NO Vets Affairs staff need apply....!

[@nunyabizz7869]

Here is an update, two years later. (link below) My great uncle was MIA in France. Our family still has the letter they sent his mother here in the states. He was captured and survived the war but for many months my family thought him lost in the heavy fighting of late 1944. I cannot imagine the pain of that, the uncertainty. He was liberated by allied troops just before the end of the war. After six months. These families have been waiting seven decades. Now their families have to plead their case, for a final verdict? Ungrateful. Their grandparents would be ashamed. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4928834/Call-excavation-Normandy-site-WWII-plane-crash.html

[@flymia1757]

Still waiting any updates

[@laneyspangle4474]

bring them home and bury them all with honours bless them all ♥️♥️

[@richardbowers3647]

Veterans Day salute to the fallen. Poem titled "Are you still there." Are you still there waiting - soldier? Is the sound of wind comforting to you. Is the meadow peaceful for resting? An orchestra is coming there soon, To help pass some of your time. The music of a deep love can help Wait for the orchestra. An orchestra is coming.

[@kutamsterdam]

Very, ,very unsatisfying story, what is happening with the crashsite and the soldiers buried there ??!.

[@paparoysworkshop]

How could a plane completely bury itself into the ground? Surely there was wreckage and bodies above the ground that someone must have cleaned up. I hope they do get permission to excavate and help to give the families some closure.

[@mgytitanic1912]

Because a plane travelling downwards at speed will bury itself if the ground is soft enough. The hole gets filled in.

[@Tomboycarol]

i think thats because a lot of planes went down and disappeared into bogs. Sadly a lot went down in the channel and they wont ever be found

[@mmarsh1972]

I can answer that, as my family house a house In Normandy near Utah Beach Normandy can be extremely wet, (more so than the UK as the rain homes down hard). Because it rains it makes the mud like a quicksand. Moreover because the soil can almost be like a sludge, anything inside of it can move that is not say disappear for years under the earth and suddenly appear on the surface one spring. Now you consider that the Sterling was burning and likely hit the ground at a very high speed it would sink right into the ground several feet down and cover itself up in a matter of hours without anyone being the wiser. This is not the first missing WWII aircraft to be discovered this way. I remember a few years ago after a particular wet season a farmer was digging a new irrigation ditch when he sudden smelled gasoline and pieces of metal. He thought he had hit a gas main but in fact it was a P-51 with the pilots remains still in the cockpit. The Mustang had disappeared in 1945. As the video states there are unmarked aircraft graves all over that area.

[@paulcarpenter4215]

CA Babyboomer Canadian Pilot.

[@pag1413]

God! "Pray for our brave heroes who sacrificed so much for freedom!Thank You

[@garrythompson2110]

Why can't which ever government is applicable arrange for the crash site to be properly excavated and all of these brave guys get a proper burial.

[@Daehawk]

Why the hell wouldn't they let them dig?

[@whitespider8523]

The Short Stirling was a massive aircraft, it dwarfs it's more famous buddy the Lancaster. That was it's nemesis, it was too heavy to get much above 12,000 feet when the, Lancaster and B17 could fly at twice the height. Some Stirling's could get higher if stripped down to the bare bones. This is why they flew fairly low level sorties.more a delivery plane rather than a bomber. Still they were loved by the men who flew them and they were an awesome sight, I believe when on the ground the pilot was 22 feet high sat in his cockpit. I don't understand why someone would block the giving these men a decent burial.

[@TombstoneHeart]

From what I can find out about the Stirlings, they were handicapped by not having a large enough wing span to fly at high altitudes. That's the reason for it's strange appearance when on the ground - the short wingspan created problems at take off, so the landing gear was extended to increase the wing angle and assist with lift. The author, Len Deighton, copped a lot of criticism when, in his book, "Bomber", he wrote that if any damaged Wellingtons or Lancasters were alone and limping back to base from a bombing mission, everyone of the crew would be looking for a Stirling they could stick with. The thinking was that if they had a Stirling to tag along with and German fighters turned up, the fighters would shoot the crap out of the Stirling because, to them, it was a soft target. It turned out that Deighton's take on Stirlings was very correct. Whether being in a Stirling had anything to do with these poor blokes losing their lives or not is probably something we will never know.

[@ratride1]

Is there any news on what has happened since the airing of this show?

[@syrsafox32]

This is as recent as I can find on this story: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4928834/Call-excavation-Normandy-site-WWII-plane-crash.html

[@constitution_8939]

Thanks for that followup. I read it and it may have unfortunately confirmed that all aboard had no chance to escape and perished in the flaming wreck. I hoped they may have already jumped out where they were supposed to but being that the paratroopers were listed as MIA too makes that Very unlikely now.

[@Jcbrazy]

Salute

[@sblack48]

Why do you need a permit to dig in an open field?

[@tetatoto23]

because France is USSR.

[@LC-jy8mj]

Permits??? Heck just dig perm

[@Kimchiboy08]

Give them a permit to find their boys who came to help liberate your homes frenchy.

[@bodge6886]

❤️❤️

[@baz-wc4fi]

I just think its Disgraceful that this crash Site has not been Excavated !! WHY!! Why have the Locals not given Information on any Human Remains after the Crash?? You said the Children Played with Remains of the Plane ?? All those People on Board must have been something left on the Surface? More needs to be Done and Quickly. A Lot of Unanswered Questions!!! UK

[@para1324]

I just see this was published in 2015. Has nothing happened allowing excavation?

[@xvsj-s2x]

Everyone should have closer on a love ones cause of passing. Family, Friends and Fellow Team mates🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@julioaranton461]

Eternal Peace grant them O Lord.

[@troopertrooper8925]

I am not trying to gross anyone out... but if you think "bodies" that can be "brought home" are going to be recovered from the site of the crash of a BURNING aircraft you might want to think again. Especially after 70 odd years. I witnessed a single engine Cessna crash...that resulted in a fire. Afterward there was wingtips, tail and engine. the rest of the aircraft...and our unfortunate friend the pilot...were....pretty much ash. In any case, the refusal to allow digs on such sites IS pretty reasonable (as is of course the desire to conduct a dig, I don't deny that) ..the site IS already a "War Grave". It seems most authorities have decided the "grave" aspect is more important. I believe digs on crashed WW2 aircraft in Britain were essentially banned some time ago …(If you are interested in Aviation Archaeology I can highly recommend a pair of books "Finding the Few" and "Finding the Foe".. about excavation of British and German WW2 crash sites (respectively) in the UK back when permits WERE granted for such efforts...

[@peachfreude]

He kinda look like Tom Holland + Charlie Puth

[@ChrisLee-UK]

The wreckage Mr Graves claims is LJ850, is in fact LJ631. He seems to have a bad reputation hence why he faced difficulties getting a permit. This info and more about LJ850 & LJ631 can be found here: ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/stirling-iv-lj850-crash-site-located.71191/page-2 Regardless, may they rest in peace wherever that are 🙏🏼😔

[@merlinstreams8878]

it was probably carrying explosives and ammo for the resistance and then got hit by flak

[@MH-ek7xz]

Hard to watch with dry eyes. The French, English, Australia and Canadian gov should make finding these people a priority and bring them home if possible

[@peterleigh7485]

When you go home say we give our today for your tomorrow 🇬🇧🇺🇲🇨🇦

[@MrMrliamo]

I don't think that human remains will be found with that plane, the documentary said children played in the plane after the war, so I would imaging that the towns people probably buried them at that time