Steel Underperforming - M390 in Steel Will Modus

[@SteelWillKnives]

Thank you for your interest in our brand! We were puzzled with the results of your testing, so we have initiated an additional testing of our Italian-made Modus knives. We've chosen a random Modus knife and re-sharpened that for 36 degrees (18 per side), after which we tested that by your procedure. The test ended up with 310 cuts per the front 1.5 inch of the blade. That is a result, similar to one we had had before with the initial testing. We will talk about our testing in more detail later in our social media (instagram, facebook). In addition to that, it's of extreme importance for us to find out what's wrong with your exact knife. We are kindly asking you to contact us to return the knife to us for the refund (shipping is on us). To avoid any further rumors, we'd like to state that all labels/tags on our knives are completely accurate. We do produce the knives labeled "made in Italy" in Italy at various manufactures of Maniago. In particular, Modus knife is produced by Maserin.

[@jasonthames7360]

Since you guys are being very transparent, I have another question for you. In your Chinese-made knives that use D2, are you using D2 made via the normal AISI recipe with 1% Vanadium, Bohler K110 as an example, or the Chinese-made Cr12MoV. Thanks!

[@xnbomb]

In the ever immortal words of all of the internet: Pics or it didn't happen. I will trust the video and documented testing over some words typed by someone with a vested interest every time. How about you send *that* knife and another randomly selected one to our mate here?

[@mforrest1508]

Looks like n690 which masserin uses. Possibly a mislabeled Steel.

[@CedricAda]

Thanks for responding, I’ll post this knife back . Believe me, I don’t relish when this happens. I find the whole process and followups cringey, but this one was so far out of left field it could definitely do with a further look. Thankyou though for confirming your OEM. Theres been a couple makers that are widely known to build one place and say its another, that its ruined it for everyone else.

[@NickShabazz]

Very interesting! I'm looking forward to seeing the details and video of your testing, Steel Will. I'd also love to see another (randomly selected) M390 knife tested, just to make sure this isn't a more systematic mixup.

[@yiralaya]

Thanks, you are one of very few reviewers who just do not repeat others and creating hypes. Now it seems many can be shown as naked and bluffing. Thanks

[@blitzbbffl]

Some SteelWill, some SteelWont!

[@explorerextraordinaire5472]

Ha ha hAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa

[@Phil-S8]

Ah, they confused M390 with 440A. Letters and numbers are confusing. Considering how much bad luck you have had with mislabeled or poorly treated steel, I am beginning to question the knife market to a certain degree.

[@CedricAda]

These are still fortunately in the 2-3% but thats still 3 in 100, 30 in 1000 etc. I guess the healthiest way to see it is the glass half full - at least 95% of them are competent!

[@Phil-S8]

shannonandsheila1 That's the surprising part. It's a lot of non-Chinese knives that have had trouble. The Steel Will is Italian, the 2x S35VN from ZT is American, and the Bark River (A2 instead of CPM154) is American.

[@CedricAda]

At 2.30 or so I call it the Real Steel Modus. Also, yes, this was much easier to sharpen. My coarse rod (purple rod) was acually out of service cos it came unstuck. The orange medium one was all i used to reprofile. Usually the advanced steels feel glassy underneath but the medium cut in very well. If you watch back the first sharpening you can actually see the powder forming up pretty rapidly. With the WE M390 the purple rod was essential.

[@49giants3]

Should have called it the crap steel modus

[@howardgreen9718]

Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors reel steel has heaps better steel

[@ArsLanHGunner]

Hey mate, try cutting or scratching a glass bottle. If there are cuts on the glass bottle it means that the steel is indeed 60-62 HRC. If the knife leaves no marks then... Whelp... It's a goddamn lemon.

[@AhpgZfoc4s]

"Hey mate, try cutting or scratching a glass bottle. If there are cuts on the glass bottle it means that the steel is indeed 60-62 HRC. If the knife leaves no marks then... Whelp... It's a goddamn lemon." Interesting, what is the HRC of glass?

[@ArsLanHGunner]

Around 59-60 HRC I believe.

[@49giants3]

Thanks for all your hard work Pete !!!

[@petergalione9704]

M390 written on the blade is free with purchase, actual M390 is extra.

[@mforrest1508]

Dude, you are the man! Seriously. So much work and money. Very selfless person. I am a curious guy so I do tests on all my knives as well, so while I don’t post it I have lots of experience. I think it is a mislabeled Steel. N690 to be exact. Masserin uses it on a lot of models. I don’t think this is a heat treatment gone wrong just because of all the controls that the modern commercial “ovens” have. N690doesnt polish as well as M390 in my opinion that’s why I asked in if you noticed a difference in polish. N690 gets cloudy for some reason. Again thank you so much for your contributions to the community of nerds, that are Knife people. Nothing but praise for you and your channel. Gonna join that patron.....soon.

[@ansonleJH1]

I don't understand why the company would be so secretive of the factory in which they made the knife. If it was made in Italy, stating the location would be a huge selling point. Something definitely is fishy with this knife. Also, your thorough review of this knife with the multiple edges is more than anyone could ask for. You gave it a fair chance and it simply doesn't meet the average M390 stats. Thank you for your diligent work in these cut tests. I'm sure everyone who watches you really appreciates it.

[@CedricAda]

Yeah, all the italian OEMs have prettygood reputations,m. Fox, Technocut, Lionsteel etc. Was pretty suprised I didnt get ‘oh, yep - those are made by Fox (for example) for us!’ The ‘no comment’ was a bit weird. I didnt think I was asking about their profit projections for 2018 or anything secret-ish like thay

[@reinenruud390]

Hi Pete, I also have some troubles with my Modus F25. I have got the carbon fiber one. I use it regurarly on my job to open plastic boxes and cutting cardboard and I emediatly saw that it dulled very quickly. Maybe not M390? I have M390 on my Benchmade, ZT’s and LionSteel and have zero troubles with them.. love the Will but not in the Steel... Keep up the good work! Ruud

[@CedricAda]

interesting to hear any other account from folks who carry these as daily users

[@christapherdane]

AUS 8.... I figured as much. Your tests are the best thing in the internet, thank you so much!

[@em4703]

Its the heat treat. Low hardness or the temper was botched.

[@ATechReviewsKnives]

I was always suspicious about Steel Will's steels and production mystery, now it is being proven, thanks for that! Wouldn't surprise me if this knife is made in China but labeled as Made in Italy with the same steel as on the Cutjack D2 version. Like I suggested before - if you could get the D2 version to test it out and see if it performs the same - that would be awesome!

[@ozyrob1]

ATech Reviews I'd be unhappy if their D2 was that bad

[@ATechReviewsKnives]

Yeah, but it will be interesting to see the result. It would crack me up to see if their $40 D2 knife will outperform the $170 M390 one, but I think it will do exactly the same.

[@fredricknietzsche7316]

it looks like Italy is the new China

[@SliceyDicey]

I have the Cutjack in M390 and have found the edge retention to be just as good as any other M390 knife I've used. So I'm not thinking it's not a Steel Will thing, but maybe just a Modus thing. Maybe different factories? Not that they'll ever say... This video (and the stupid G10 backspacer) was enough to get me to cancel my pre-order for the carbon Modus, though. I have a D2 Modus and love that one.

[@barrylevitt1170]

Thanks for all the hard work you put into your videos. I would like to see a cut test on the steel will cutjack or modus in D2 steel.

[@SuperPremiumDeluxe]

Seems they meant 8crM390. :P

[@TheKillerKlok]

Why Heat treatment matters the video.

[@MichaelTravis12c27]

So, I know when I'm hand sharpening a knife I can usually get a good feel for how the steel will perform. You can tell a difference in how the stone cuts between things like M4, 390, 3V etc. As opposed to 8cr13, 420hc or even 440c. You can also feel some differences in the same steel but at different rockwells. (Though that is a lot less distinct) could you feel something wasn't right when working with the Lansky?

[@overlandedc]

Wow! The performance is shocking and so is their response! I’m guessing just a bad heat treat, but come to think of it my resident in d2 seemed to dull pretty quick , much more than normal d2. I can’t believe we are having to question companies honesty about the steel they say they are using! Either it it’s M390 and they don’t have a clue how to hear treat, or they are mislabeling the steel!

[@LisaInTheSkyMU]

The phrase, you can’t polish a turd seems to apply here 😊

[@joshjohnson5307]

LisaInTheSkyMU you can polish a turd, but it's still a piece of shit when you finish up lol.

[@BMikeAD]

The Black Mages are the shit. Amazing game music made even better.

[@nicholasevans9627]

A yr ago, I bought one of Steel Will's mini gekko's. I remembered that knife had these little pits where the micarta had chipped out. This was a $180 knife. I called Steel Will and left a voice message to see if I could send the knife back for a replacement or just buy some new scales. Got no call back. Sent an email requesting the same thing. Got no response. That type of thing is what I remember the most about Steel Will. Not their products and the questionable fit and finish for the price you pay for, but there customer service.

[@CedricAda]

that sucks man, its highly probable I get the extra level of service having this louder voice on the platform

[@Gpknives]

Great video as usual. I'm hoping you get to test another SW in M390 to see if perhaps it was just a bad HT. I think they do a quality build and their FRN/D2 models are very competitive. Looking forward to more of your testing.

[@tonycanniffe2360]

Thanks for all the work Pete. I was considering adding one of these to my collection. (Heard good things and thought it was a bargain. It's awesome to have some objective testing done, especially when the provenance of the knives/steel is unclear.

[@toegoth]

Dang man this sucks I was really looking forward to getting the d2 version but I can't trust them now. Thanks for saving me the pain and for putting in that work for us man, keep it up you my favorite knife channel by far.

[@mattszymanski4684]

I just ordered the D2 Modus. I wish I saw this first It would be great to get the steel tested with a Positive material identification gun PMI

[@aray9628]

Matt Szymanski I know man my D2 modus just came in the mail yesterday and now I'm having 2nd thoughts about their steel as well hopefully it's just a bad batch or something maybe a heat treat issue idk? But they should definitely send him a new knife!

[@rodrigoteresa7944]

That zoom at around 5:50 killed me

[@wigglywrigglydoo]

Any cut tests done on Twosun's M390 and other steels?

[@jasonthames7360]

Thanks Pete! Your test are so very valuable because they have now shown over time that just because a company claims to use a specific steel, does not make it so. I feel like this has to be a knife that got N690 accidentally when being made. Bogus man...

[@ciderandthorazine]

i think the mislabelling fairy must have visited Cedric & Ada again. Steel Will use 9Cr18MoV and AUS8 in some of their other knives. i suspect that one of those two steels made it into that knife/batch somehow. both would be expected to complete around 50-60 passes on the rope with worksharp edge.

[@danielbeekhuizen1511]

Thanks for saving me a lot of money! Keep up the amazing work man

[@knifenoob5411]

This is what’s going on here. When I grocery shop I look at my reciept see I have been overcharged 5 cents, no big deal but add all the nickels where someone doesn’t check reciept it adds up. How many are going to check to see if the steel is actually what it’s stamped? Ummm one or 2.so there is more profit with less chance of being exposed. Very sneaky and clever. PETE ,thx for what you do.now you will need to buy knives anonymously because knife companies will be sending you the best of the best and pretest before sending to you. Steel Will will never get my money.

[@explorerextraordinaire5472]

I am broke so they never had a chance getting my money in the first place hahahaha

[@gotsurvivalism]

they do make that same model "MODUS" in D2 steel. maybe there was some sort of mix up?

[@schlooonginator1227]

I always think the best course of action for any company when faced with a negative review is to be open and honest. I think everyone knows that every company will make a mistake, it happens, but when you refuse to reveal even who makes the knife it just looks like some cheezy PR department stock responce from a company more concerned about its perception veneer rather than its consumers. Thankfully it appears they fixed their responce and have provided a reasonable answer here in the comment section.

[@kerryrwac]

Be interesting to test the Rockwell hardness . Could be a bad heat treat , or it's not M390 , or both . Do the corrosion test for poops and giggles too .

[@CedricAda]

It was a lot easier to sharpen than m390 has been before, also. I didnt even need the coarse diamond lansky stone to set the new bevel

[@fredricknietzsche7316]

looks like we have our answer.

[@davidmathews2124]

So what finally happed here? Did you get a replacement from SW? Did you send in the dud knife? If so, did they test it and give you feedback?

[@frankrice1253]

Im wondering if a rust test is in order-- also I was wondering if you could sense a diffrence when you were useing the Lansky ? I have a KME, & can kinda sense diffrent steels in the way they sharpen-- do you think it "felt" like m390 on the Lansky ? I have this exact knife, but never put it on the KME---- thanks & CHEERS FROM AMERICA !🇺🇸

[@MatyasTurk]

Frank Rice great question, i wanted to ask how the sharpenning felt too.

[@frankrice1253]

Mátyás Türk-- when these things came out, I bought 3 d2 versions, & an m390. Which I still have- I also bought a d2 cutjack. I got rid of every one except the m390 modus because of one problem or another, lockstick, bad detent, the list goes on. I thought it was just the budget versions, but now this-- I wonder if I got sucked into the Steel will hype--- there was alot of it.-' oh yea CHEERS FROM AMERICA 🇺🇸

[@Gpknives]

Disappointing to hear you've had such a negative experience with your Steel Will knives. I've handled quite a few and always found the quality (fit, finish, detent, lock operation) to be quite good. Having not used for cutting I can't speak to blade performance but I'd be interested to see some more data. It could be that this unit had a bad heat treat but without more info it's hard to know.

[@SteveKluver]

GPKNIVES Agreed Tyler. But we do know, that they don't heat treat one knife at a time. Usually hundreds at a time, in a big operation like this. I'd like to know, the number on his knife.

[@Gpknives]

True. If it was an issue with the HT it would be a batch issue. It could also be that the HT was negatively impacted by heat during grinding which could limit it to just this unit. Hopefully we'll see a positive resolution from Steel Will.

[@pauljenkins2370]

Thanks for taking the time and WORK, going the extra mile (1.6 K) in testing. You have to wonder if you were sent the D2 version by mistake? 👍👍👍

[@requiscatinpace7392]

Was there ever a resolution to this issue ?

[@yeaman992]

Good stuff! I'd love to see you test Microtechs M390!

[@louiskoestner4337]

Possibly a screwed up heat treat?

[@explorerextraordinaire5472]

That's what i was thinking

[@MatyasTurk]

We've seen differences in heat treat through Your test, like 420HC and Bos 420HC, and the varying results of S35VN from ZT. But this seems different. This is like 8Cr13MoV and 440A territory... I'm vers dissapointed, but also glad, I saw this, before getting a Modus CF. As You said, it might just be the one knife... But I just wouldn't take the chance. Thank You for all the work!

[@Airik1111bibles]

Mátyás Türk m390 if not heat treated would suck right off the line and never reach the 60-70-100 mark. I think it's probably the whole lot of them AND with the weird response I'm guessing you are right .....China 440c or possibly 14C28N or 12C which they have been using lately, its very popular on Real Steel knives. You get the same look and stainless steel quality so people won't notice unless you're crazy like our friend down under.

[@cafn8ed74]

Insert gif of Michael Jackson eating popcorn in a movie theater here.

[@johanesgo8096]

thanks for your work, I love your channel. can you do a test of menly patriot in d2 steel?

[@johanesgo8096]

45 euro nice knife

[@edwardyork4321]

LOVE LOVE the Music in this video 👍🎆

[@MiguelTorres-hg1kn]

I was really disappointed with your test. It could just be a bad blade. I am glad to hear Steel Will is willing to send you a new knife. I am holding off buying a Steel Will until I hear the follow up to your replacement knife. Good Luck.

[@frozenturtlefarts1025]

The frustration on your face when you said f@#k it lol.

[@mklein5179]

I wonder if the people at the rope store think you have hostages tied up in your basement. I’ve had trouble with my viper m390. Hmmmm

[@petergalione9704]

mklein5179 lol

[@sngx1304]

My Viper in M390 is definitely M390. I reprofiled my Viper Storm and it took me bout 3 days on my KME

[@sngx1304]

Yes, mine was pretty steep. Plus it had a slight recurve. It took me a bit to figure that out. Also, the sharpening choil is a joke.

[@mklein5179]

sngx1304 agreed. I finally got it right. After a lot of trying

[@iannluci]

I very much enjoy your videos and testing and thank you for the content!...I usually end up with results very similar to yours ....I do not own this particular knife but had results like this with a random m390 blue pm2....all my other specimens of m390 scored fantasticly.but this pm2 got on average of 80 cut s ....who knows why ...lol ..

[@tacticalcenter8658]

Ian mauk did you check to see the bur was removed completely? also they are under warranty for materials. did you contact warranty? also your tests might not reflect Cedric's exactly... what other steels have you tested to compare?

[@tonycanniffe2360]

Last time I was this early Basil was skinny

[@ozyrob1]

sounds like M390 is italian for cheap stainless. I'd be very curious to see how their D2 compares to the D2 in the RAT 1 and 2? great service to the community Pete. Well done.

[@SteveKluver]

Thank you. If you mentioned, somewhere in this video. What number is printed on your knife? I'm sorry. I missed it somehow.

[@londiniumarmoury7037]

Hey could you help me out, I figured you are the man to know the answer to my problem, I'm in the market for a nice M390 folder right now, I've been looking at Fox, Maserin, Viper and their MKM colab lines of knives. I want to make sure I get one thats heat treated properly, what company should I avoid or go to for the best heat treatment of M390 out of those Italian makers? I was looking at the Viper Novis and Fox Nimrod in particular, somebody told me the Novis HT is shoddy, but they didn't back up the claim with any evidence and data. So now I don't want to invest hundreds in a knife that might under perform. Found this video so I thought I would ask you, thanks.

[@BrentonCarr]

I'd be interested to see you test the cheaper D2 version.

[@manhuawang11]

Great testing, thanks!

[@daniel_miller]

Bummer. Any experience with the Boker Kihon?

[@VincenzoNero94]

Was it still take as long to sharpen as other m390?

[@jsct6111]

You can test the blade for hardness and look for any near spectrograph is not too expensive it will be enough to have 0.5% accuracy just to see it is like M390 at all or its totally different alloy. M390 written on the blade doesnt mean it was produced out of that alloy in reality. Especially when company is keeping in secret where the knife is manufactured. It would be intetresting to see if the edge retention will improve after a few more sharpenings or it stay at the same level.

[@don0giorgio]

Pete, have you tested their d2 steel on cutjack or modus?

[@nupersoob]

I am becoming increasingly disconcerted with factory heat treatments. If I paid $200 for a knife, I'd expect it to hit at least 200 on the rope cut test no matter what specific edge I put on it... I think I am going to start testing my knives. Let the gauntlet begin

[@kevinAuman1]

Have you tried the Kershaw link in M390 for $80???

[@explorerextraordinaire5472]

For real #lifegoals I want that knife

[@kevinAuman1]

@@explorerextraordinaire5472 shop around you can sometimes find sales or a coupon-discount code and ed up paying less than $70 for an M390 kershaw link (bigger of the two) or M390 Kershaw dividend...

[@explorerextraordinaire5472]

Cool! 8 didn't even know that was a thing! Thanks@@kevinAuman1 !

[@convex7456]

3v 35vn or elmax bravo one??? To buy. It would be used surrounded by the great lakes. Used for battoning and harder use

[@CedricAda]

.308or5.56? both are fine choices, I think S35vn is pretty stable so im sure it’ll do impact well too. If they were both the same price I would go elmax

[@azraelsblade]

Bad heat treat or they burned the edge during grinding

[@MetalsForBrunch]

Where did you purchase this? I just ordered the m390 carbon fiber with orange back spacer just released in the USA 4 days ago. I think this issue is probably fixed by now hopefully.

[@CedricAda]

australian knife site Blades of Oz. I am not hearning many other negative reports anymore so you should be right

[@kimj2570]

Patreon joined.

[@mforrest1508]

Did you notice it not taking a mirror polish like other M390?

[@SmJ-]

“Sorry, but no comment”? That’s HORRIBLE customer service. And this test is cause for some alarm on my part. I know you have to be a bit careful with your comments, but if you were forced to guess, what do you think the problem is? Mislabeled steel? Poor heat treat? You test a lot of knives so did it feel really similar to anything else? Love the channel and thanks for the work you do to satisfy our curiosity!

[@AOAOAO96]

SmJ451 -1 He got a bark-river with wrong steel too,,, A2 steel on a 3V knife

[@eugeneBai]

Thx for great videos! But one question.. Speaking about angle you mean 20 degree per side = that 40 degree overall, right?

[@TheBigToe69]

Yes. That should be obvious

[@JDStone20]

Nice work!

[@bladecentered2264]

you should be able to return this to them for a new knife, since you paid good money for m390, but it not perform like m390. Steel Will actually responded in the comments saying they tested one out, which is really cool of them if they did that. Now to make things right they should send you a new knife for you to re-test at no charge.

[@fredricknietzsche7316]

partially agree. But the point is what do you get when you anonymously buy one not when one is hand walked through production. I have no doubt they can make a good knife, but the question is what do you get when you purchase via distribution.

[@bladecentered2264]

Fredrick Nietzsche true

[@brendanloy9468]

is that rope from bunnings and made by grunt cause i think ive seen it

[@CedricAda]

Brendan Loy thats the one!

[@PaulK390S90V]

And the worst part is it is one of my go to knives to grab out of over 100. I don't use it for heavy tasks or really anything but I like how it feels and how smooth it is...I did not want to scratch up the knife but I am going to get some rope and do the same test and try out my knife...I will let you know!

[@PaulK390S90V]

KillerDeegan Your going to have to just trust me, I don't have a KZbin channel and I dount my phone will even take a video that long. I won't exaggerate or lie don't worry. Going to go today later and see of my hardware has the same size sisal rope or see what they have for starters. And if they have it I will do it and message you back on here and make a new message to Cedric and Ada...I assume he must be Cedric and his dog Ada? God I hope that's not his wifes name! Ive never asked him lol

[@PaulK390S90V]

KillerDeegan And I already have it sharpened from my KME up to a 10k chosera and then strops up to .1 micron. If it has shitty numbers like his have been I won't even bother trying a toothy edge or a convex ...it will just suck and put a bad taste in my mouth about my favorite knife to carry..err

[@PaulK390S90V]

KillerDeegan You knew what I meant. I don't have it set up...just made an account to watch videos and stuff. I dont think I have ever even seen my profile or page or whatever I don't even know if I have one or care.

[@PaulK390S90V]

KillerDeegan Ya ill let you know

[@PaulK390S90V]

KillerDeegan Haha no way. Wow...I guess I'm getting popular lmao

[@littlewoody5539]

That’s not m390 is it Steel will ?

[@anything_knife_related5647]

How did it feel Sharpening this M390 compared to other M390 blades. Did it take just as long Sharpening or was the material coming off like a cheaper steel. Did you feel like you where removing steel way to fast for M390?

[@CedricAda]

It was easier for sure. I didnt even need to use my coarse diamond (I couldnt as it fell off and was waiting for new glue to set)

[@ogarzabello]

I'm sure KERSHAW's M390 will underperform too.

[@explorerextraordinaire5472]

Whyyyyyyyyy? Because they offer m390 under 100 dollaridues?

[@fredricknietzsche7316]

there maybe be more "mis marked" steels out there then folks think because it is hard to test at home. company reputation is everything.

[@MichaelWebber]

I'm thinking the subcontractor that made this one laser cut a sheet of the wrong steel by mistake and either didn't want to throw out the blades or never ever even noticed the mistake.

[@shastasir9715]

Just click in this video, and.... yeaaaah LOVE final fantasy!

[@johnbowen5336]

15 degrees is fine for a blade made of M390 unless Lionsteel buggered the pooch pretty magnificently during heat treat. I suspect though that something else got labeled M390, it happens. I choose to believe that it was an accident.

[@CedricAda]

John Bowen yeah, I have no reason to think it’s a larger issues from one sample. Is it Lionsteel that makes these for em?

[@johnbowen5336]

Actually, I have no idea why I thought it was Lionsteel other than the fact that most of Steel Will's M390 models all seem a bit thick behind the edge, which is sort of a hallmark for the brand. It could be Viper or Maserin for all I know.

[@bananaslipslap1127]

John Bowen damn. I really wanted to get one of these lol. Now I'm scared I'm Gunna get a shite one. You should definitely get another one and see if it was just an accident!

[@ArsLanHGunner]

Hi Pete, I have a Real Steel M390/Titanium Megaladon folder and it behaves very similar. I was surprised how relatively easy it was to sharpen and how quickly it dulled on a plastic cutting board while I was cutting food. It doesn't scratch glass too. I bet there is something fishy with eather heat treatment or steel labeling. Kind of dissapointed with this.

[@tacticalcenter8658]

ArsLanHGunner I seen a KZbin channel where a guy took this same knife and even batoned wood and chopped with it and still cut after a lot of abuse on wood. I've not even had to sharpen mine yet. its possible a sharpening issue. but who knows... its very possible there may have been some that didn't get heat treatment properly too. send it to peter and see if it holds up to his testing.

[@ArsLanHGunner]

Can you please send me a link to this video? It can't be a sharpening issue. I am not able to send knife to Pete for testing. Guess i'm going to buy some rope and test it myself one day:)

[@tacticalcenter8658]

ArsLanHGunner Here you go brother kzbin.info/www/bejne/kISndWWej7h7q7s

[@PaulK390S90V]

Wow that's very disconcerting. I have this same knife with black g10. Wth! What do you think? Just a one off or....I feel like crying

[@tacticalcenter8658]

BTW found out we knives ht m390 to 59-61. benchmade varies depending some knives are 58-60 some are 60-62 steel will had one knife tested on bladeforums ... m390 was 58hrc. no cut test though. big gap from 58-62. so either they just chose to use m390 at low hrc for sales instead of performance or they are using a different steel. or the heat treatment could have just been botched on this batch. maybe they rushed it or didn't develop a proven ht for m390 like others have. also steel will doesn't do anything but design and sell them, so they wouldn't know what the manufacturer did.

[@aerius30]

Looking at the M390 datasheets, 58HRC means they either skipped the cryo, overcooked it in tempering, or otherwise messed up the heat treating. Without cryo the ideal hardness range is about 56-59HRC, with cryo this bumps up to 60-62HRC. Benchmade used to run most (all?) of their M390 at 60-62 according to their website, but a lot of them are now spec'd at 58-61. This does not give me happy feelings. I like M390 because it can be run pretty hard for a stainless while still having decent resistance to chipping.

[@tacticalcenter8658]

aerius30 the older spec sheet from bohler said 58 hrc maxamizes hardness levels. so while I agree its not really exactly true. but I agree with your assessment regardless. I'd prefer m390 at 61-62 if possible. but yes many companies forgo cryo to save costs, other companies don't have even heat ovens that goto the required temperatures. steel will already responded to this thread. they say this one is likely bad but they are not all bad.

[@tacticalcenter8658]

sorry meant Toughness, not hardness. im a tard.

[@ArikGST]

Good thing I havn`t ordered this knife yet xD Btw Pete, could you maybe list links to the song versions you use in your videos just for those of us that love em? xD

[@CedricAda]

Apart from the first which was the Barthandelus fight from FFXIII, these are all by the Black Mages - all available on youtube as clips and pretty much everywhere on MP3. The Black Mages was the three FF composers forming a rock band and playing the songs. Coolest thing ever, for nerds like me

[@TravelingDan20]

Thanks for the hard work brother! Was thinking about buying the new Intrigue... but with their shitty ass response to the question and the steel being that crappy for M390 I think im good thanks for saving me the money man, cheers!

[@whocares3986]

Seems like maybe 14C28N?

[@MatyasTurk]

Bob Snyder 14c28n did around 50% better on the same test :D

[@PaulK390S90V]

Hey Cedric not sure if you saw my other message with someone on here back and forth about doing a test of my own. I have the same knife but black handle. I used manila rope because I couldn't find sisal and after researching found its 20% stronger than sisal and more abrasion resistant. Anyway I got 248 before running out of 15ft of rope! Going to buy more tomorrow and finish. Not going to touch the knife or strop or anything. I think you got a bad one bro, or even a d2 blade that got mixed in. I am so relieved. And btw this manila is soo hard to cut through, it finally SNAPS through with enough force. I had to use my left hand to push down on the blade to do it. Is the sisal rope like that? I cant believe its still going, I wasn't being conservative in my cuts in the beginning and regret it now. Lmk what you think! Will have the final count tomorrow.

[@CedricAda]

cool man, yeah I don’t think its an epidemic or anything, sounds like yours is performing as it should be

[@PaulK390S90V]

Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors Lol well none the less you had me nervous. How is the sisal as far as how much pressure to cut through it? The manila was really hard, like I said I had to use my other hand after a while to make a good "snap" cut, and im a pretty strong guy lol

[@PaulK390S90V]

Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors Hey bro my final count is 417! Its a v edge and as you know goes higher than your work sharp numbers. And I also don't exactly know when you consider it not reliably cutting paper. It still cuts but half the time kind of messes up so I think we have about the same idea of when to stop. So yea, my hands are killing me and I'm very impressed with the one I got. I also found 50 ft of sisal rope to do my own tests! Different brands in the same steel thAt you have tested and also I'm curious on my cold steel pendleton cpm3v....I noticed it made the edge shine back at me after a fresh sharpening by only pulling it out of the sheath once after having a perfect edge. Its very odd. So I will be doing that next. I dont know how you do it man...my hands are sore lol. You really feel any sharp jimping and hot spots that you never noticed. I hope they send you a good modus and you get good results.

[@PaulK390S90V]

Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors Just an update...I'm up to 300 cuts on my cold steel pendleton 3v with a kme mirror polish v-edge! I think you had 198 with convex. I have a blister on my hand now lol...not used to it yet. Took a break but I think its not going to go much further , maybe 350 if I'm lucky. I love doing this! Going to spend a forture on rope though lolol 11$ for 50 ft at my hardware store. Gonna find it cheaper somewhere though. Keep on testin!

[@PaulK390S90V]

Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors Hey bro I have an important question. I'm doing 8cr13mov on a spyderco Tenacious. V-edge on a KME mirror polish. I'm up to 90 cuts...and its a little rough cutting paper...magazine paper at that. When do you stop? When it gets a little grabby or rough? Or when it literally won't cut through the paper when you go slow? I see you try it several times when its getting close, but what's your point when your like ok it's done? You must have a certain thing you look for. Im surprised about this 8cr13mov...but then again I don't think you have done spyderco in that steel...maybe you should soon. The v-edge is Definetly key but I just want to know when to stop so I'm not giving it too many cuts when you would have considered it not reliably cutting. I know its a different test and many variable but just wondering what you look for. Thanks!

[@truetalon]

I appreciate you put a lot of time and effort into your videos and testing. What I don't like is you re-profiling the edges from the factory edge. Very few knife buyers are going to do this and it's not a real world test. You should be testing with factory edges only.

[@CedricAda]

I did test the factory edge first. And not all factory edges are the same angles, either, even from knife to knife. These vids are testing steel performance so having the same angle is important for comparability

[@truetalon]

I agree you are testing steels but you are also testing specific knives and their heat treatments. This dud Steel Will knife is a perfect example of that. No one hears that you are heat treating to ensure every knife has the optimum heat treatment for the various steels or even that you are doing basic Rockwell testing.....but here you are re-profiling the blades........

[@spider5001]

What in the world? You are freaking me out man. I’m going to start cutting rope and spraying my my knives with salt water. I’m just sticking with LT Wright. Too much shady things happening

[@alexzavarro9769]

Now get the D2 one and test it. I bet it lasts twice as long!

[@wjblocks8940]

Alex Zavarro I wouldn’t be surprised.

[@BOOSTEDLASER]

How many total hours a week do you spend doing these vids?

[@CedricAda]

this was all up about 5 hrs, the smaller ones are an hour tops. Have been able to do more now both my kids are in school.

[@gorgonzolastan]

Ah this is no good! I've got one of the Italian m390 cut jack by steel will. I would hate to find out they've got a junk heat treat. I have used the knife plenty but not to the degree your test does. I haven't noticed any problems but I haven't put it through the ringer.

[@Hornel66]

Steel Will owes you and anyone that bought that knife $190.00.

[@aray9628]

Not cool at all Pete they should send u a new knife. I would like to see if the D2 version out cuts that one u have...? Great video u certainly gave it a fair chance that's for sure. Could heat treatment have anything to do with it u think?

[@CedricAda]

Most likely a heat treat issue. Hopefully its that simple anyway

[@Outcaste153]

So steel will not cut that long then.

[@rodrigoteresa7944]

8CrM390MoV? 😁

[@EDCwithAaron]

No comment on factory? China? 8cr13mov? For $200?

[@twoguysoutdoors5408]

Try using a different cutting board than one you have sharpened on a bunch of times, I'm sure all the stone grit and metal filings over time have made it like sandpaper. Your cutting the rope in the same place you sharpened the knife

[@CedricAda]

this is the only steel thats performed differently, and if you check my other vid on this knife I use a soft cork mat with only a slight increase in performance.

[@twoguysoutdoors5408]

@@CedricAda oh that's interesting. Thank you for replying. I'll, check out that other video.

[@moparhemi1777]

3:32 old intro music :') Steel Won't Modus! HA! .....sorry

[@christamu2]

Looks like that heat treat could be improved with a Bic lighter. Yeesh.

[@ippondammy]

Are you gonna send it back for warranty? The knife is clearly defective ....

[@esp9sram]

To be continued! Break out the popcorn! M390 just happens to be my favorite steel for a knife fixed or folder. Basically because of its balance, corrosion resistance, toughness, Edge holding ability, and wear resistance. This just can't be m390! Or as others had said bad heat treatment! As always give the company the benefit of the doubt and let's see if they step up to the plate. After all it is their reputation.

[@TheBigToe69]

M390 is not a tough steel. There are far better options for fixed blades and it is only an average steel in folders. There’s better corrosive resistant steels, tougher steels and better edge retention steels.

[@Oozy9Millimeetah]

Im lucky i can shoot my blades with an XRF analyzer at work, its amazingly accurate.