Celestion Vintage 30: UK Mesa vs. Chinese. THE ULTIMATE TEST!

It is said that Mesa OEM Vintage 30 speakers are voiced differently than standard consumer Chinese Vintage 30 speakers. In a video on ‪@KohleAudioKult‬ last year, Adam "Nolly" Getgood said that such a voicing does not exist. In this video, I put that to the test by isolating as many variables as I can. The results were both surprising and not surprising.
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[@eightymusic]

Great job! Thx for putting in all the effort.

[@divebomb99]

Good job, thank you for taking the time to do this and all the forethought that went into it.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

thank you for watching!

[@yannickgauvin7987]

finally a good video that demonstrates a real comparison ... thank you

[@aruraru6644]

Thanks for the comparison with having impedance of speakers in mind. Many people don't do that.

[@cyrilmarchand237]

The best comparative video about this speaker, great job!

[@riccardo8676]

Thanks! Great test!

[@saschaschmidt3966]

insane video bro, thank you

[@DavidDavis-FA-photog]

Thanks for this video, it's rare to see an accurate real comparison.

[@bandersnatch9297]

I live in the UK and I've been desperately trying to get hold of UK V30s because of the hype, and I just can't; I have to get it shipped from Mesa in the US at huge expense. Now I feel like I don't have to. Thank you my friend, I really appreciate this video.

[@cutoffguitar]

Great video! 🤘

[@vikingmike8139]

First and foremost, great video and thanks for letting [us] into your mad scientist V30 laboratory. Very cool. I think both versions sound good and have their applications. I actually use both versions mixed with other Celestions. The UK version (Mesa) speakers are paired with G12H Creambacks in a Marshall 1960 Lead cab 16 ohm. The Chinese versions are paired with Alnico Golds in an Avatar 'Vintage' cab, similar to the Marshall 'B' cab 8 ohms. Both are ripping cabs. For tight thunderous power the 1960 cab is it, and for more vintage hard rock the Avatar cab is really good. I am going to go and play one of these cabs right now, thanks and Cheers!

[@johnmaddox1712]

well done vid, thanks!

[@dass101]

Your video shows exactly the same difference that I'm hearing in all similar ones, which I've also heard with my own ears in more that one instance. This actually, IMO, proves that there IS a voicing difference. The difference being, as you also noticed, that the Mesa V30 doesn't have the upper mid resonance which makes it sound less aggressive and with a perceived extended and smoother high end, and also a lower end which is a bit looser and spongier in the Mesa. This is extremely consistent in all comparisons and, as mentioned, very apparent in the real world. There's no best, it depends on the tone you're after and the mix.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

I'm thinking of re-doing this experiment with a reamp setup, different microphones, and a new pair of speakers to see if I can reproduce the results

[@johnathan.jerusik]

Really fast, before i get to the playing, i want to just say im happy i listened to you talk. I dont thi k it was a waste of time. Age, and impedience are huge factors and you explaining that is a great thing. Now on to the playing!

[@shawn9366]

What a great video

[@ricardadn]

Molt bona feina. Felicitats!!

[@tormentridden]

This was an excellent video and an excellent way to compare the speaker's the only thing that might have made this video better was more post-production of your talking. I saw that Glenn recently suggested the glue on the Chinese speakers looks slightly thicker and that celestion has increased their quality control

[@jasonsapp792]

I have several sets of V30's ...I had put a set of Chinese V30's in a F100 combo I bought unloaded ....that set was my favorite set of V30's I had ...they have a slightly higher end clarity over the UK V30.

[@markkinney5030]

In my cab vintage 30 that chinses and i think they sound great! I likw this video it was pretty cool sound test!

[@felipe5150]

Engl cabs use Chinese V30s and sound great. I have the Marshall Dave Mustaine cab loaded with Mustaine's own UK-made V30, and also sounds great. Personally, I've always found Mesa's too dark. But, just like you mentioned, they all sound great in a mix. Great video, dude. Cheers!

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

Many thanks for watching!

[@michaelgrahamwongacutemadness]

I don’t know if those are really called V30s, but 1960V cabs have their own 70w version that no one else can get; I wonder if some older Marshall cabs use regular ones though.

[@felipe5150]

@@michaelgrahamwongacutemadness I they're called G12V30 Dave Mustaine. Made in the UK. At least that's what I saw when I opened the cab. Sounds awesome

[@michaelgrahamwongacutemadness]

@@felipe5150 I remember trying out a bunch of cabs when you used to work at Axe Palace and liked the Mesa ones most since they seemed to filter out frequencies that I don’t like, but the Dave Mustaine cabs sound way better than other Marshalls; too bad they don’t make their regular cabs like that though.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

@@michaelgrahamwongacutemadness The "Marshall Vintage" speakers found in 1960V cabinets are indeed 70 watts and the ones in my cabinet don't sound great. Maybe they are a different speaker after all, or maybe the poor sound can be explained by when mine were made (2005).

[@ontherocks1026]

Thanks for making this video . I’ve messed around with UK and Chinese made V30’s . I always felt the UK made were smoother in the high end . I still hear it in this video . But I’ve enjoyed using both versions . I actually preferred the Chinese V30 when mixing it a darker speaker . Made the cab sound really aggressive. Thanks for the comparison 👍🏼

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@kaytrell]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal Same impression here, I agree - eventually thinking of replacing one Chinese V30 in my 2x12 box for a Creamback 65 to lower the overall harshness but your review and analysis makes perfect sense - we have become slaves to brands and origins so, yeah...

[@snapascrew]

Cool video, for the record I’ve heard much bigger shift in tone between two of my UKv30’s that were both made on the same day and endured the same amount of break in time. These speakers in your video sound very similar. I preferred the Mesa tho. Haha.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

Hmm, how about that? It's more of a crap shoot than we know. But to see if I can repeat my results here, I have a follow up video to this one planned (soon as I save up the funds to do it) where I improve the test by getting 4 brand new speakers of each type, Mesa and Chinese. It would be a costly video but interesting

[@snapascrew]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal nice. I’m currently trying to stop myself from driving a couple hours to grab an April 2003 Mesa oversized slant. Running out of places to put cabinets and I don’t gig so it’s dumb 😂

[@sheldonswan45]

@@snapascrew Buy the 2003 cab! ;)

[@hugojavieravola5445]

Muchas gracias por este video. realmente me ayudño mucho. Hugo desde argentina

[@bayougtr]

Chinese V-30’s came in both Mesa recto 2/12 cabs I have. Both, new in box from Sweetwater. Bought in 2019 & 2022

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

mesa uses their OEM UK speakers in all cabinets. 16 ohm OEM V30s like the ones in Mesa 2x12s are designated T4416 while the 8 ohm variant is T4335. the corresponding consumer Chinese ones are T3904 and T3903, respectively

[@PhattStaxxTraxx]

Don't forget the change in Barometric pressure its sure to affect the SPL. LOL, good video.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

Dang it, now I have to remember if I left the window open or not during recording... lol

[@lazycubes7370]

good comparison

[@randallabracadabra]

Never could get into the Mesa UK V30's, but I was given a blown Bogner V30 T3904A and re-coned it with the Celestion UK T3904/R (444) re-cone kit and I have to say that is the best sounding Vintage 30 I've ever played through of the various versions I've owned over the years aside from the very well balanced Bad Cat V30 without the doping on the cone.

[@oxidcustomdrums7042]

Thank you for making the point with this. But please do tell about your BASS TONES IN THE LAST CLIPS IN THE END OF THE VID!!! Sounds great

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

It's just a multiband compressor and a free Sansamp emulator called "TSE BOD"

[@oxidcustomdrums7042]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal well there you have it, I must have over-complicated my search for sounds. Keep it simple -> profit... thanks!

[@alexanderlumberjack]

I'm running a 4x12 with 16ohm v30s and a 2x12 w 8ohm v30. They are all uk speakers but both cabs are wired at 16ohm so together you get a taste of the usual faves

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

I'm doing the opposite atm, with all 8 ohm vintage 30s in the 4x12 and 16 ohm Marshall Vintage speakers in the 2x12

[@philippemartignier9858]

Very interesting thanks! Would it be possible to know the serial of both speakers? Spectre said that Chinese V30 have changed this year (2022) and that now they are similar with old uk ones. Nolly stated that it is only about years and that 2000 to 2003 are the best years. I tested mines 2003, 2006 and 2018. All 16 ohms, same mic etc ... 2003 has indeed a totally different sound (less aggressive highs). 2006 uk and 2018 Chinese have also a difference but not as much as with the 2003 which sounds totally different. I have also 2005 that I did not test but those are 8 ohms and in a different cab ... so not worth to test. I would be interested to see what you end up testing V30 from 2000 to 2003 to see if you find also a big difference like me :) Keep on the good work!

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

The China 8 ohm one is from 2021 and has the same transparent dust cap that Fricker talked about

[@Patrick-rf7vx]

Did you have the speaker in the same position in the cab or was one on top and one bottom? The latter has a big impact in sound in my experience in an angled cab. You would see a lot of phase cancelation in the bottom speaker due to reflection of the back wall and from the angled speaker up top.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

Watch the full video and you will find your answer

[@vsxz]

Not a fan of the Chinese V30. Just don’t like the high end unnecessary fizz I found in a speaker swap comparison I did of my own. Good video man, nice job.

[@kekkonenprkl]

Had to swap one of my UK made V30s because it was really high end fizzy compared to the other one in the same 2x12. To be perfectly honest, Celestion is really inconsistent with the speakers, tolerances are really wide in both UK and Chinese made. Two UK made speakers may sound "nothing alike", even if they were produced the same day on the same line. You can get an UK made V30 that sounds "absolutely carbage", if you are unlucky. Meanwhile you can also get an absolute gem of a Chinese V30, if you get lucky. And vice versa. Only way to get truly great sounding V30s is to get a cherry picked matching set, which is expensive.

[@alvaroruizruiz7538]

8 vs 16 ohm, that's when the dilemma comes, and we don't know which were used in those records we love. Also, what seems to sound better doesn't necessarily translate well in a mix so...

[@billhannum4117]

In the second sample I actually liked the Chinese v30 more

[@MrMaksVolkov]

thumbs up only for this face when "I got a package today" 😆

[@dominikpohli2381]

try the wgs retro and vetaran 30 you will love both

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

One of my local music shops has had an 8 ohm Retro 30 for ages. I might check it out one of these days

[@synthkatt]

I have found the two biggest factors in a good v30 tone is the cabinet and playing it at 8 ohms instead of 16. 16 is too bright and shows more of the fizzy characteristics.

[@tammanaq]

I have just asked Celestion themselves about wether there are any difference between V30's (uk/china). For example in Mesa cabs vs. Harley Benton cabs. Their answer: "No, they're all the same".

[@kosmonument2682]

The differences we hear are probably just manufacturing variations despite the process being the same.

[@todd0864]

I find that old school Elmer’s glue blobs have more tone than the new hot glue gun glue blobs. That said I bought the Mesa UK speaker 16 ohms to mix in a 2x12 with G12-75T. The mesa is $20 cheaper too.

[@keithmatthews3857]

😂😂😂

[@fredgaither1484]

I can hear the difference (although I think both are excellent) Cabs/amps influence sound in such greater magnitude I don't think I would care which of those speakers I used...I think I actually ever so slightly prefer the Chinese one tbh.

[@TheProgGuy]

I've been using an i5 on my v30 for a while and it is indeed a superior alternative, I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking that. The 57 is a but too bright to be honest, the i5 is much warmer on the top end which really brings down the sibalance that you typically get from a V30 + 57 combo. I prefer a 57 when mic'ing a snare drum over an i5 though. Also, if you want to try a different microphone, buy an CAD TSM411. I use that with a Mesa OS 2X12 loaded with DV-77's through a JVM410 and I don't even need EQ, it's fantastic.

[@nicholasalexander4482]

Lo, I had both the i5 and sm57 and ended up selling the i5 as I was always EQing the highes and upper mids out which I didn't need to do as much on the sm57

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

bizarre. in my experience with the two microphones, the SM57 always imparts a "cheap" quality to the guitar sound - weak bass response and high mid nastiness that I don't like. the SM58 has a better bass response, less of a high boost, and an identical midrange character, so that's actually what I've been using to record lately

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

@James Williams I've kind of abandoned it lately. I haven't used it at all and any guitar recording I do is done with a 58

[@1thess523]

The Mesa was missing that little fizz at the top that the Chinese have. My son and i both have Chinese Vintage 30 Line 6 (Bogner) cab's. They both sound really nice and for $200 & $120 we couldn't pass up those deals

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

Line 6 puts Vintage 30s in some of their cabinets??

[@AMGL1989]

They sound so similar, that it’s almost negligible. I would say the UK version sounds a little less aggressive and very slightly scooped. Like you said though, it could be attributed to the slight differences manufacturing.. like thousandths of mm in winding or cone thickness and countless other variables. They both sound so similar, that I’d say you’d be good buying either one. I’ve been watching these comparison videos today, just to find out that the difference is minute and ultimately wasted my time worrying about which sounds better.

[@TheVoiceInYourHeadd]

Yea they sound basically the same other than the differences you mentioned. And to top it off, Celestion China is now using a clear mesh dust cap now on the V30 in 2023 and that has supposedly changed the tone lol. I just stick with Eminence speakers. Too much inconsistency coming from Celestion.

[@joeytruelove]

Definitely the pre-hump dip is sweeter on the Mesa and the Mesa has airier highs for sure. Makes the tone of the Mesa, although similar, much easier to listen to. Mesa is also fuller at the low end. You would have to understand that Marshall made Celestion update the V30 in the 1990s for more bite - a bit like what they did with the G12T75. You say the glue blobs are positioned differently. Then how are the spokes of the basket oriented? It's a known fact that Mesas have their spokes at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

I couldn't tell you about where the leads enter the cone on the Mesa speaker, because the speaker came with its magnet sticker off when I bought it so I had to put the sticker on myself. I might have oriented it weirdly or I might have oriented the speaker differently when I put it in the cabinet, but regardless, putting the mic in the center eliminates that variable

[@joeytruelove]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal Right, well, that was unfortunate. Then the lug board obviously always goes on between the spokes so I have something of a hard time envisioning the tinsel wires to go on very far off of that. Would mean longer wires to the board and what not.

[@TheXxPSYCHO]

Now do messa v30 Vs Chinesev30 Vs Marshall v30 Vs OG UK V30

[@saikyosphere]

Recently, on Glenn Fricker's channel, he's been saying that the 2022 Chinese vintage 30's are vastly improved from the older Chinese v30's. Personally, I'm liking the aggression of the Chinese speakers in this video.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

I've seen many, many comments about that Fricker video (which I have seen) and I find it bizarre that all of a sudden he's managed to convince this many people that *this* is the new vintage 30 to get. I bought the Chinese one in this video this year and it has the transparent dust cap, yet I reckon my early 2000s speakers that I have still thrash it. and it's not like Celestion consciously varies their vintage 30 voicings every now and then - I don't think that's what's happening and again, it's weird that so many people are suddenly interested in brand new vintage 30s thanks to the Fricker video

[@saikyosphere]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal That's why I'm interested in listening to sound tests like the ones you've been doing. Thanks for these videos and for your input!

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

@@saikyosphere i'm glad you enjoy them and thanks for watching! I want to do more speaker videos like this in the future, particularly about any additional vintage 30s I find and also G12T-75s, which I want to experience for myself and see if they're the scourge of the forums for a reason

[@Brent-Nelson68]

@@LordofDiamondsMetalhow do you explain the spike in the 6.32 hz range of 11 decibels shown in Glenn’s graphs comparing the older UK v30 to the 2022 Chinese v30s?

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

@@Brent-Nelson68 I explain it by attributing it to unintentional manufacturing tolerance differences, different speaker age, maybe different speaker impedance, and a host of other possible variables

[@tracylavinia8232]

Both sound great, prefer the clarity of the Mesa , that’s why I have Mesa cabs, these two speakers would sound great mixed in a 2x12 cab

[@alexanderlumberjack]

Maybe but i always prefer to only mix speakers in a 4x12 in an x pattern. The 2x12 with different speakers always sound off to me

[@1thess523]

Year's ago i saw a UK vintage vintage 30 vs a Chinese and the UK sounded terrible. What's funny is I'll hear Green Backs or Cream Backs in a video and they sound really good but then I'll hear a Vintage 30 and it just confirms that's the best speaker for me

[@zAvAvAz]

it is a normal variation between chinese and uk made speakers. 🙂

[@brandonbryson3317]

In my experience…UK for playing at home, Chinese for a live mix.

[@user-ol6fi9xz5s]

On the isolated tracks I thought the UK V30 had a tad more clarity/openness in the top end. Not more top end in general, just a more detailed top end, which I like, but it sounds a tad less polished per se. The UK V30 sounds a bit more "spitty" in the top end if that makes sense haha. Less forgiving maybe? Interesting... I think I might like the Chinese V30 more when it's just the guitar by it's self. But man, the only difference is in like the 3000hz and up area. Subtle. In the mix though I thought the Chinese speaker sounds a bit stiffer/flatter than it's UK counterpart. I think I prefer the UK made V30 in the band context. Since at the end of the day all that matters to me is how the guitar sounds in the full mix, I give a narrow win to the UK V30, however, I certainly wouldn't shy away from the Chinese V30! I already have a nicely broken-in Chinese V30 in my main cab at home anyways, and I get good tones out of it, so I have no interest in getting rid of it for a, subjectively, marginally better sounding version of the exact same thing. Super interesting, I love this experiment! Thanks for the hard work and attention to detail in putting this comparison together! 😃

[@90mphsleep]

I think I like the Chinese one better! While I agree that the variations between the two are negligible within the context of a mix, I spend a lot of time just practicing guitar. I don't consider myself a cork sniffer, but I want it to sound good while I'm playing. Cheers.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

yeah, I'm no cork sniffer either, but I'm more of a studio guy than a guitar player, and I want to know what makes the most difference when creating sounds, and to what degree certain things sound different

[@gutsfiend6678]

lol you have almost the SMG studios rig, 6505 and V30s, did you record with an sm57 as well? Lol

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

That is not exclusive to SMG, it's standard equipment in the metal world. and I recorded everything you hear in the video with an Audix i5

[@vibrevtonez2421]

What are your thoughts on Glen Frickers new V30 video? Apparently Celestion has “improved” the Chinese production of the new v30s

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

I just watched it and I concur with his conclusions based on my own experience. I don't think Celestion has consciously "improved" anything, though, I think the different ways the speaker sounds over the years have been due to manufacturing inconsistencies, probably mostly in the paper cone. Celestion didnt wake up one day and say "we're gonna make vintage 30s sound this way this year"

[@changes655]

Okay … Chinese more mids sind Mesa ones more scooped sind highs . How do they Sound in the room ? In my experience the Mesa should be more in your face .

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

Differences in the room are always hard to tell to me, especially because by the time I've switched the speakers, I've lost my mental reference. Recordings are a lot more revealing. Besides, I conclude that the differences are attributable to normal variance between speakers.

[@BR-kj3fp]

Testing them at home, it’s so close no one could tell a difference if they didn’t know better. I sure as hell wouldn’t pay more because it’s Chinese or Uk. I did notice the slightest bit of added presence on the Chinese models. If it really bothers you, turn the presence down one knob on the amp and the Chinese is the exact same.

[@gerardoromano3436]

The difference between those speakers is not minor by any means and I think It´s not due to tolerances in materials or manufacture IMHO . No one is better than the other, i like the Uk one just because I like that voicing, doesn´t matter if It´s made in China or UK , at least for me. Just my two cents. Oh! double tracking of those guitars is spot on, It´s like an ADT, great job, I don´t like hard rock but I can tell if someone has talent, you have! I don´t agree with the theory that 16 ohm speakers sound brighter than 8 ohm ones, difference in inductance is minor in that relative smaill coils, in the order of Micro H.

[@brozio77]

there is a difference for sure but in the mix is slightly listenable. another thing, nobody tlls you that you have a similar face to satyr of satyricon?

[@MrWilly2204]

The best sounding V30’s I’ve ever heard are the Marshall branded V30’s.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

I have the exact opposite experience, hahaha. The ones in my 1960AV cabinet sound scooped, harsh, and hideous, not just in comparison to my 8 ohm Chinese one, Mesa one, and 2003 one, but just hideous. full stop. while I can get decent results from them, they're the V30s I have to fight most. granted, they are from Nolly's "dark ages" of the mid 2000s

[@MrWilly2204]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal I don’t think we’re talking about the same speakers. I’m talking specifically about the ones made for use with the Marshall Jubilees, circa 87-88. I think the ones in your cab were simply relabeled Chinese V30’s. There are many, many variations of V30’s, more than I thought there were. Some guys on the rig boards know way more about the variations than I do.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

@@MrWilly2204 I didn't think the Silver Jubilee cabinets came with dedicated speakers unique to them. Marshall 1960V cabinets contain the "Marshall Vintage" Vintage 30 speakers made in the UK, OEM for Marshall. They have the same 444 cone as consumer Vintage 30s and Mesa Vintage 30s but they're 70 watts, not 60. They're all 16 ohms, too. I think Marshall had an OEM 8 ohm Vintage at one point but I don't know what it came with. Maybe it came with the Jubilee cabinets Also, I'm still not wholly convinced that OEM Vintage 30s made for different companies or just general consumers are purposefully voiced different from each other. I guess the only way to tell would be to ask Celestion themselves, something that I have seriously considered doing if I can think of a way to contact them that will get me through to the right people and not generate a form response

[@MrWilly2204]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal the ones labeled “Marshall Vintage.” That’s it. Those are the ones I’m talking about. I think those sound phenomenal. At least the ones I played through did. I’ve got a pair of early 90’s English made V30’s that sound great. Both are way better than the Chinese versions, imho. But that “Marshall Vintage.” I played through a quad of those with my SLO (I don’t like the SLO with V30’s, generally) but it sounded really good with those Marshall Vintages. I was really kind of blown away, didn’t expect it. Anyway, good video. I enjoyed it. : )

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

@@MrWilly2204 I'm glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching! Yeah, those Marshall Vintage speakers come in 1960V cabinets and they're what came in my 1960AV cabinet. It's interesting that you're such a big fan of them because, like I said, every other Vintage 30 I have sounds better to me. More prominent mids, more bass, less grating highs. I may have just gotten unlucky with my set. Do you have any recordings of yours?

[@BC-xt1dz]

Sweetwater didn’t send me candy with my Badlander 50 ☹️

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

yeah, they've been flaking out on that lately... I know sweetwater kisses your ass a lot but the candy is the one part of the ass kissing I don't want to go away

[@TheGunmac10]

I dont care either way bc I own neither but this video made me belive that there is a difference. Chinese are rumored to be harsher and that is the case, I actually prefer em. But dude cool guitar I have it in 7 string but my bridge pickup working itself loose have you ever had that happen , any remedies ?

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

Tighten the screws around the pickup maybe? Or, you know, just get a guitar that's higher quality and that you won't have to fight constantly. Like a Schecter that's not budget tier.

[@TheGunmac10]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal thats exactly what I did so obviosly my pup ended up at 3.75mm which is a bit too far. I have very few gripes with that guitar and I play it all the time I dont think Im ever going to replace it. Im not sure why say schecter would be any better

[@user-if8vr5qs2w]

There's definetely a small diference, but I wouldn't say its better or worse tbh. I read somewhere that they are made with the same quality satndard.

[@MichaelDespairs]

Since "there's no voicing difference" want to swap 4 UK ones for my Chinese ones?

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

if they're my marshall ones... those things can go kick rocks

[@MarkSturman]

Yikes, I have to disagree with your conclusion on this. I hear major differences. I own a couple dozen V30s of both kinds, and their is most definitely a "voicing change" between the two. It's not even subtle, even with your own comparisons in this video (which is awesome you did, by the way), but the differences are pretty drastic. The Chinese V30s have a sharper high end, and the UK V30s have a warmer tone with smoother highs. Neither better than the other, just different, with different uses. I'm actually glad you took a much more scientific approach to the testing, since I had the same concerns with other online comparisons. I just have different end result opinions. And you know what they say about opinions and assholes. Great video.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

I never said they sounded the same, I just conclude that the differences I think are not attributable to a conscious voicing shift, but rather normal parts variation

[@MarkSturman]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal Yes, I agree it isn't an intentional difference, but however the reason why, there's a significant difference. I notice it in all mine. Not just speaker to speaker difference, but from production between the countries, whatever materials or a ton of other variables. I like the Chinese versions for solos and UK for rhythm, personally. But, as you know, there is no right or wrong.

[@jackslayers]

I found out that there is only minor difference between the uk and Chinese v30.... but big difference between uk and Chinese greenback....

[@giorgosk2884]

Different midrange for sure

[@EliPorterMahn]

The UK has less fizz, to a discerning ear this is going to mean alot for extreme tones

[@kekkonenprkl]

That fizz thing you mention is actually not a consistent difference. Even two different UK made V30s may have fizz while the other one does not, even if they were made the very same day. Tolerances are quite huge between the UK models as well. Also breaking in the speakers may or may not get rid of those fizzy frequences (in this comparison they were both brand new). I've seen a couple of comparisons where the Chinese version sounds less fizzy than the UK made.

[@EliPorterMahn]

@@kekkonenprkl The ones I bought from Mesa sound great and dont have the raspiness of the chinese ones I tried. Im going to trust my ears over anything else

[@kekkonenprkl]

@@EliPorterMahn A channel called "The other John Browne" has collected V30s and has over 50 of them dating back to 80s and all the way to the latest production batches (IIRC 2021 was the latest he had). Ranging from stock UK production, Marshall and Mesa branded ones and chinese models. Most of them he has in pairs of the same production batches or the same year. He made a massive shootout video about 3 months ago and what he found out was very interesting. Most of them were very similar from low end to mid range, but had noticeable differences in the 5-6kHz range and past that point till the drop at 10kHz. And those differences were very clear even within those pairs of the same batches. UK made didn't quarantee any consistensy, the tolerance differences past 5kHz were massive and quite a few of them could be described as fizzy. And a lot of his Chinese V30s sounded exactly the same as the ones he had from some of those "golden eras" of UK made V30s. And no, he didn't only show the results as a sound sample, he also had the spectrum analyzer visible. And he also split those samples to mid-range, presence and brilliance ranges. Most of the differences were in the latter two ranges. He also had an isolation cab, where the mic didn't move between takes. Only difference between the speakers were the speakers themselves.

[@attilatapolczai9541]

I don't agree with your conclusion. Listening to the second sample, my first thought was that it sounds so similar to the Mesa impulse responses I have from Ownhammer and to other Mesa cabinet recordings I heard. Of course it wasn't a blind test so the bias can not be ruled out but for me it sounds like there is a voicing difference between the two speakers.

[@dummy0000000]

I'm a sound engineer and guitarist. Chinese is more compressed, Mesa has more definition on the hi end with better low end response. To be honest, most people will tell it's the same but if someone's offered to use one or the other on a recording, I would choose Mesa no questions. If we talk high gain, you already have a distorted brickwalled sound, why would you choose to have it even more flat with a chinese speaker? I am not saying Chinese sounds bad, but if you have a choice... Last thing! Even if you don't have good speakers, pay attention to the end of each clip where the palmutes are happening, feel the dynamic response of the low end of each.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

I use distorted sounds for all my speaker tests because the more saturated frequency spectrum makes the speakers' characteristics more apparent. Clean sounds tend to sound more similar through different speakers. I don't put much stock in guitarist talk about "dynamics" or "feel", as most of it can be attributed to low end response, placebo, or other factors that are so small that they're negligible. Like how people say that Mesa Rectifiers are the most "dynamic" amps on the palm mutes, when the "dynamics" are just the ridiculous amounts of low end that those amps have making the palm mutes really woofy, to the point where they're essentially unusable without a boost. Guitarists call it "dynamics", I call it "shitty design"

[@nasticanasta]

right off the UK are brighter, clearer.....that's the difference

[@RozsaAmplificationLLC]

the Mesa-badged ones to me sounds like the Marshall-badged ones and sound "scooped", but the Chinese (and assume UK) are not and "cut"!! If one wants to cut thru the mix, they should avoid the Mesa and Marshall and focus more on the Celestion either Chinese or UK versions!

[@drewmcdowell1622]

There is a proven difference by putting the speaker in the angled position. Likely more so than where the speaker was made.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

good thing the speaker went into the same cabinet slot each time, then

[@rl95719]

UK sounded better to me. It sounded darker, but the highs were smoother and clearer than the Chinese. The Chinese sounded harsher.

[@metalguru3558]

Quality of the factory they’re made in / quality of the factories employees does add up. England has regulations, and pay employees fairly. Chinese factories have no real regulatory standards, doesn’t pay well and even uses child labor. The speakers can still sound good but Chinese made products are cheaper for a reason. Look at dr martens for example.

[@andrewspade7969]

The problem with buying new Celestions is the price has gone up by as much as $44 AU for Neo creambacks, Vintage 30s have gone up $30 in the last year. So unless someone only wants one speaker or are a working musician, I don't think many are going to be too keen to buy many new speakers even if the new ones sound a little better. The guy I buy my speakers from said people are thinking twice about buying new speakers now.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

I didn't know that, looks like tough times for tone chasers

[@kosmonument2682]

The Chinese speaker is so much better, it's astonishing. But you're right, the mix tells the truth and they end up sounding the same when it counts.

[@raytorvalds3699]

Small difference, but i liked the Chinese one better.

[@nasticanasta]

you totally miss the point that ohms change depending on how they are used i.e. parallel compared to series, also you forgot the methods used recording vs what the listeners are using to hear...like cheap computer speakers..and this should have done clean, not distorted.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

I'm aware of how impedance changes depending on how speakers are wired, but both in this video are 8 ohms and only one speaker at a time was connected so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything in the video. I wholly disagree with you about needing a clean sound, because a distorted sound saturates the frequency spectrum more and therefore gives a more obvious picture of how the speaker shapes the sound. Besides, clean is not what I mostly do, as I'm a metal musician

[@dirkvanvlanderen]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal I'm totally interested in this question. Like you, I have the HB with the 16 ohms speakers in parallel, and a mesa 212 with 16 ohms speakers as well. I was wondering what difference it would make sonically to put two 8 ohms chinese speakers in series instead of two 16 ohms in the HB cab. I get it would fuller and punchier, but to what extent ? Was wondering adding and blend a G12H30 anniversary, but then, 8 or 16 ohms ?Given the speakers price increase, I'm getting hesitant. Thanks for your great videos.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

@@dirkvanvlanderen 8 ohm speakers of the same type are almost always less scooped and bright than 16 ohm ones, so that's the biggest change you'd get. I don't know to what extent it would be. All my 16 ohm vintage 30s are brighter and more scooped than my 8 ohm ones, but they've got age and ageing differences. I've never compared a brand new 8 ohm speaker to a brand new 16 ohm speaker of the same type, so I can't give you any opinions on that. That's an idea for a future video, though

[@johnmaddox1712]

5:23 6:09

[@johnmaddox1712]

8:37 9:23

[@CrownedWarriorBand]

I asked Celestion about information on the different versions of the V30. Here's part of that exchange... For example the so popular Vintage 30. There are at least three versions. The Marshall G12 Vintage, the one you make for Mesa and the standard V30. People would like to know the history and differences. Celestion responded… "Two of those three “versions” of the Vintage 30 are custom products, so we wouldn’t talk about them due to customer confidentiality."

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

it's well established by now that celestion ain't talkin when it comes to differences between OEM versions of the same speaker. either they say there's no difference or they just don't want to talk about it. it all comes down to what recorded audio tests like this one reveal

[@CrownedWarriorBand]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal But I think they're response acknowledges that there are these different versions.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

there are different versions, for sure, but do they have a consciously introduced voicing shift? I can't be sure, and I want to redo this test in the future with similar methodology and more speakers

[@flrn6233]

UK V30s sound amazing, Chinese V30 sound like crap, harsh. You need to record with an ambiental sound to hear more what you are hearing in the room. If you record with a MIC, you can hide too much from the sound just by placing the MIC close or far away from the dust cap.

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

"hide too much with a close mic" that's just actually false

[@flrn6233]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal You hide that harshness od the chinese speakers, it's true! There are others comparisons on youtube were you can hear the diference. Chinese V30's are nowhere near to the original UK V30. I got V30s from the 90's and I got the new chinese whent they come out... they are crap. That's why Mesa Boogie told Celestion they wanted the UK only speakers, not the chinese. That's why you are going to find the Mesa Cabs got UK V30s and the general public get crappy chinese V30. Chinese people doesn't have a clue about how to make a good speaker, they use only machines, they use diferent glue... those speakers are bad, not musical at all. I sold them all the chinese, never again a chinese speaker. Even with a phone recording you can notice the diference better that a mic like a SM57

[@thomasfoster4091]

Ok, but you didn’t actually figure anything out. You can’t rule out a voicing difference. Not sure how you concluded that you could. You also placed the speakers in different positions within the cab. One was top and slanted, the other was bottom no slant. That makes a difference. Next time use a looper pedal.

[@EliPorterMahn]

Glue blobs

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

Another nugget of Nolly wisdom

[@GrimpleGromble]

I try to buy anything but Chinese products.

[@sixjac]

Chinese one sounds better actually

[@BobbyCulpepper.srv3fender]

Perhaps the mesas are pre broken in, break in the Chinese ones and see if they get any better

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

Did you even watch the video?

[@BobbyCulpepper.srv3fender]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal yes, what's your point

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

My point was that I deliberately eliminated the age factor to make sure the comparison was as scientific as possible. There is no indication that Mesa speakers come already broken in, and that wouldn't make sense if it was the case. The tone differences aged speakers, I think is mostly attributable to how the speaker was aged, ie. what conditions it was stored in and how much dirt and humidity it absorbs, rather than continuous use. The most scientific video I've seen on whether or not prolonged use breaks a speaker in, the tone barely shifted at all.

[@BobbyCulpepper.srv3fender]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal some speakers need a break in and some don't, I think it has to do with construction, I've heard clips of the Chinese sounding completely different then ones right out of the box. I also own 2 mesa cabs and they've never sounded as bad as some clips I've heard of Chinese v30s. But this video they sound much better

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

Well, like I said, there's some difference to be found in 16 vs. 8 ohm speakers. 8 ohm V30s come in Mesa cabinets. 16 ohm ones always sound brighter and more scooped and that's what comes stock in Marshall 1960V cabinets and many other cheaper cabinets with V30s in them. At least 2 comparison videos I've seen here on KZbin have had a 16 ohm Chinese one and a 8 ohm Mesa/UK one. So of course the Chinese one sounds more fizzy and nasty. According to Nolly, there was also a time in the mid to late 2000s where Vintage 30 sound changed across the board to the nastiest and fizziest it's ever been. I own a Marshall 1960V 4x12 with the stock "Marshall Vintage" V30s from 2005 and they sound fizzy and hideous compared to my modern 8 ohm V30s, even my 16 ohm one from 2020, and especially my 8 ohm one from 2003. The construction and materials used to make V30s have always been the same, they've all got the Müller 444 cone, but due to manufacturing inconsistencies and paper cone pulp formula inconsistencies, there have most likely been some unintentional voice shifts over the years. That's why it was important for this test to make sure both speakers were brand new.

[@bigorstojanov184]

Chinese is sooo much better

[@JB-dn9wv]

China 🇨🇳

[@TheXxPSYCHO]

Different resonance peak = different voicing Try a Marshall V30 and have your mind blown Really though they're using Malaysian cones in the CN and that's the difference You should really have re-amped because the playing variation is the BIGGEST VARIATION in these comparisons. Everyone claims their comparison is better because all the other ones suck, then they always make the same mistakes: Poor/limited knowledge on the subject matter. No timestamps. Too much talking not enough comparison. No one ever re-amps - any variations in sound are most likely variations in playing. Overall pretty avarage. You came in guns blazing quoting Nolly then it started falling apart a bit but good try!

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

Thanks for watching. I'll address your points one by one: I have a Marshall 1960AV cabinet with the "Marshall Vintage" speakers from 2005, a time where the V30 was known to not sound great. They're 16 ohms so they're brighter, and they are the worst sounding V30s I own. In order to do a proper comparison, I'd have to get ones that are the same impedance as my brand new Chinese one and that are also brand new. The Marshall one is one that I'm more likely to believe is different, though, because it's rated for 70 watts instead of 60. Slight variations in performances, with a high gain metal tone, are not responsible for any significant change in tone. This is why you can double track and not have massive tone shift between the two, or splice in another take and not have a totally different tone. With clean sounds, it's a slightly different story. I covered this in the video already. I had to talk a lot and address stuff that people would have otherwise asked me over and over: what mic did you use, did you move the mic at all, etc. I deliberately didn't put timestamps because I wanted people to watch the entire video and not simply skip straight to the comparisons and make comments asking about things I had already mentioned in the video. And I don't claim to be an expert on recording - I'm just a guy with a love of recording who wanted to see if there was any merit to a myth I've commonly heard. If you want to dispute my findings, then perform my experiment on your own and see if you can reproduce the results. Or produce entirely different results.

[@TheXxPSYCHO]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal timestamps are essential to A/B sounds . If people want clarification then they will watch more - if you have timestamps for the info then viewers can find it easily. What I find is people tend to view the whole video then go back and really listen to the speakers. These informative comparison videos on KZbin should be for education and comparison purposes and as such how much of the video and how much money you receive from that are irrelevant. In these videos, the only thing that matters is finding the information (be it about the non-standard clone mic you used (I'd like to note that you really should have used a 57, not arguing which is better, but the 57 is standardized - much like V30s. Imagine we do a scientific test to find a cure for cancer. But each time we test something we use a different measuring beaker. Our experiment is no longer scientific as we changed the variables. This is the same as bragging about your amazing speaker comparison that's better than everyone's else's and your motivation to do it was because you think every other video is done poorly. Then you proceed to using different recordings for each speaker... If you can't re-amp then don't claim other comparisons suck and yours is done the best and the most scientific. It's not. You agree the Marshall vintage sucks then clearly there must be a spec difference between the CN and Messa V30... Kinda logical to assume that. Especially since you keep stating the difference in resonant peaks... Do you know how you get a different resonance peak? By voicing the speaker different. This is mostly down to the Malaysian cones in thea Chinese V30s. Honestly it's really funny how half the video is popping on other people whilst stressing how scientific your comparison is. You think a speaker cone from 2005 can't be compared to another because of the 'unknown exact amount of hours played' when a broken in speaker from 2005 and another broken in from 2003 will probably have less variation due to play time than... I dunno... Say.... Recording something different for each speaker instead of reamping? I think you should change the title of the video to include the word 'ultimate' because this is just another of those braggy 'my video is better than yours' video

[@LordofDiamondsMetal]

If you want I can redo the experiment and try to reamp and send you the recordings afterwards, if that's the only problem you see with the test. But your metaphorical beaker still accomplishes the accurate measurement it was designed for, no matter how it was placed on the table, if the liquid was poured into it slightly faster the second time, etc. My only experience with the Marshall speaker is my nasty sounding 2005 16 ohm ones. If I got any other one, I would expect it to sound wildly different, and I don't think it would have anything to do with where it was made. I find it unlikely that people walk into the Malaysian Celestion plant and say "we're gonna make this speaker deliberately sound different from its UK counterpart". Of course, the only way to truly know would be to contact Celestion themselves. Again, if you want to dispute my findings, then make your own test with the errors that you perceive in mine corrected and see if you get the same results. But I must stress that out of all the variables I could have left in, performance is the least significant. Far more significant would be if I had moved the mic at all, if I had accidentally changed my amp settings, if I had used differently aged speakers, etc. Speaker age, from what I know, is very hard to quantify and affects speakers very differently so that variable must be eliminated. My 2003 8 ohm vintage 30 speaker sounds nothing like my modern 8 ohm ones. Let me know if you want those recordings. You can also join my Discord if you wanna talk about this further.

[@TheXxPSYCHO]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal went back and listened to the podcast khole did with Nolly (to whom I've spoken to extensively on speakers) and Nolly also said that 'it takes years and years to break in a speaker, hundreds of hours' so that reinforces my point about speaker age not being all that relevant when talking about your 2005 Marshall's. actually Nolly said he bought a used 2005 V30 loaded can and hated the sound because it wasn't broken in after all those years. I had a quad pair of 1993 Marshall vintage speakers and they sounded as bad as you've described. Sold them on reverb for just under £1K because those old farts will pay anything for UK made. You've clearly never studied or worked in the science field. Using a different measuring beaker would void an experiment. That small variation in the volume of fluid is the difference between a scientific test and an amature one. I appreciate the effort you put in to monetise a video and you worked with what you had, but you immediately started quoting Nolly saying other comparisons all suck and that your is the most scientific then proceed to pull this non-reamped audix i5 💩. I'd either go all out stupid and title the video "the best ever most scientific ULTIMATE V30 comparison video" I mean you already put Nolly in your thumbnail even though he's not in the video... Or you could cut out all the egotistical stuff Either way, you really did just watch some Khole and Nolly said sometimes about impedance so you thought that little tidbit of info that everyone already knows made you more qualified than anyone else to produce a 'superior' (imagine using that word to describe an i5 😂) comparison video

[@TheXxPSYCHO]

@@LordofDiamondsMetal just to add that Nolly also spoke a lot about the variations in cones in that Khole video which proves my point that the Malaysian Cones sound different than the messa ones. Even Khole joined in an said the machines and raw materials would be different. No conspiracy, just variations in manufacture of cones between UK and CN. Just like I said, just like you heard from Nolly in your biblical video

[@brokenfinger1979]

If you want to learn tone then learn it from a baby boomer who lived through the times, not from a Gen Y!