Which Sayings of Jesus Are Authentic?

[@ameren110]

Thanks! Amazing content as always. One of my favorite channels on KZbin.

[@HamerToronto]

Thank you for your support.

[@centre-place]

Thank you for supporting the channel!

[@davidfolts5893]

Nobody does Biblical history like John Hamer, who is a genius at integrative complexity or taking large amounts of data and weaving it into a creative tapestry of knowledge. Please support Centreplace!🔥🔥🔥

[@lukeyznaga7627]

I will say, that I , too, have learned a LOT from John Hamer, and other videos of Centre Place. agree with David Folts.

[@marcellesmith6432]

I love his videos. I am truly grateful for the time he puts into them . ❤ Episcopalian from Alabama.

[@furpiginfidel7681]

Just discovered him and yeah, he's excellent

[@centre-place]

Thank you, glad you enjoy out content

[@edwardt4283]

Who's John Hamer?

[@lcrouch1952]

I am a PhD scholar in my own field, with 40 years of research experience. But my knowledge in my own field is as nothing within my field as John's is within his. Hats off!

[@METVWETV]

Are you a Mormon too?

[@METVWETV]

You're a Mormon too?

[@PilliamWilliam]

That's cool. What's your field?

[@Rollacoastertycoon]

@@PilliamWilliamtriknology

[@tudorpearce]

I’m so h happy to listen and learn. You’re great. This lecture series is the best!

[@LetsFindOut1]

commenting to help this amazing channel get seen

[@lukeyznaga7627]

a commercial then....

[@METVWETV]

Helping a Mormon, Why?!

[@VSP4591]

I can not express my full gratitude to the author of the presentation. I mean John Hamer. God Bless You. Thank you, again.

[@garymensurati1631]

Agree 👍💯👍

[@METVWETV]

God will only bless John Hamer when he rejects Mormonism

[@patrickkish6662]

I must say, I believe the ministry of this church shall grow beyond anyone's expectations. I have heard many lament the loss of sacred buildings and artifacts, as of recent. But, in truth, the most sacred artifacts and vessels are the bodies that house the spirits of the patrons within. I believe this is where the true spirit dwells. And the historical treasures and wealth are shared and passed down by an honest heartbeat, and the good actions and words we breathe. The upkeep paid is the truth of our being shared. This is priceless. And without boundry. Peace be us all✌🏼❤🙏🏼

[@candicebergstrom4490]

What a beautifully worded comment!

[@patrickkish6662]

​@@candicebergstrom4490 I appreciate the compliment. But the inspiration came from the Community of Christ Church, and John Hamer. It's a great community 🙂

[@lukeyznaga7627]

now this is a true comment, not a bot or troll or commercial singing the praises. Sincere.

[@robkunkel8833]

… BUT do we know what Patrick just wrote? Not really, from my point of view. Working in a Historic “Sandfloor” Synagogue, I deal with relics that go back to 12th Century Spain and 17th Century Caribbean island St. Eustacius. Is Patrick saying the things that look like angels are little spirits? Us Jews draw the line on angels. Anything that looks like an angel is a cherub, which have no more spiritual significance that a hood ornament on a Hudson motor car. The “spirits” that I conjure up from working here are part of my being and, yes maybe it gives me wisdom from the ages but I have no way of ever knowing. /// Man’s greatest folly is thinking he can understand God. Why do we try so hard?

[@patrickkish6662]

@@robkunkel8833 I apologize, Rob. I should have prefaced my statement with, "In my opinion." I had no intent to anger anyone. Or thoughtlessly disparage anyone's faith, or being. I do not see angels. Nor am I one myself. I do not claim to know, or fully understand God. And I do not wish to diminish, or speak ill of sacred buildings, or relics. I try my best to honor and understand love. I do fall short at times. But I continue to try. In my life, physical objects have come and gone. The walls I live in, and worship in, are always changing. But, seemingly, with a heartbeat, the pulse of being, I remain. My body and spirit are all I have. Temples and artifacts may be cherished, embraced, bought, sold, loved, destroyed, and rebuilt. The same way people have been treated. What's the value and insight of it all? Who's right, and whose wrong? It all gets decided in a moment. In a thought. In an utterance. In an action. In a heartbeat. In my opinion, of course. Peace and love to you, Rob

[@joanwatson9178]

Thank you for your channel. I’m very glad I found it. John is a scholar and a gentleman. I have a very diverse background. Always a searcher , but since politics in the United States has become adversarial and ignorant of what I always thought Jesus was about…. I have lost my faith. Please consider praying for folks like me in your fellowship… God Bless your work

[@marymagnuson5191]

I always learn so much from John’s lectures. I could listen for hours. No questions just support and prayers for your mission.

[@lukeyznaga7627]

so tell us...just what have you learned, or are you just doing commercials of praise for this channel? what did you see?

[@todradmaker4297]

@@lukeyznaga7627 John does a great deal of research for these lectures and, I too, get a good deal of information out of his efforts.

[@METVWETV]

You're a Mormon?

[@virginiaortega2415]

I am really enjoying these lectures very much. Thank you

[@METVWETV]

You're a Mormon?

[@longcastle4863]

@@METVWETV I’m an atheist and I enjoy these lectures

[@Nwnatves]

Thanks!

[@HamerToronto]

You're very welcome, thank you for your support.

[@centre-place]

Thank you for supporting the channel!!

[@cecileroy557]

This is EXCELLENT! I "was" Catholic ... until I started studying... How shocking it was to learn all that we are NOT told.

[@METVWETV]

While I have my issues with Catholicism, Please tell me that you didn't leave Christianity for Mormonism!!

[@longcastle4863]

@@METVWETV You’re letting your bias taint what you think. This speaker is reviewing legitimate scholarship. It doesn’t matter what Christian denomination the church he belongs to evolved out of. This is a Christian church not afraid of legitimate biblical scholarship. A rare and amazing thing indeed.

[@johnriley5499]

I learned much of what I hear at this site from a Roman Catholic Scripture scholar over 50 years ago. These presentations are great but it's not new information and it's not antithetical to Catholicism. ​@@longcastle4863

[@donmilland7606]

I recommended this channel to a couple of friends.

[@METVWETV]

Are they Mormons too?

[@gringoquenocomecuy]

An excellent discussion - well presented on a sensitive topic. Thanks.

[@slottibarfast5402]

Fantastic. It seems that the most authentic sayings are rather trivial, being honored in your hometown, care for the poor, while the important sayings, the establishment of a church, christology. The road to salvation are the most troubling.

[@METVWETV]

From a Mormon perspective

[@marklong7698]

I'd heard that 'Q' is called 'Q' because it comes from German scholars, and 'Quelle' is German for source.. maybe I heard that from you John?

[@mathildehuisman7464]

There are a lot of things I know nowadays, that I think I learned from John 😊

[@denaisaacthiswasgreat.thum7598]

I heard it from John.

[@HamerToronto]

Yes, that's correct! Probably heard it here :)

[@jahunmoayedzadeh9194]

Correct heard it from Bart erhman and James tabor

[@origenjerome8031]

The guy who first called it Q was a German theologian in the 1800s. This is not a new idea from today's scholars.

[@yoyoschmo1]

Glad you popped up on my KZbin. Can you color code the books with the percentage or likelihood of origin with a key? So Matthew for example has unique writing and book of Q

[@METVWETV]

Why are you seeking insight from a Mormon?

[@lukeyznaga7627]

I think a great example of a problem verse to think about whether Jesus said things, HAS GOT to be, Gospel of John 17. Understand what that is. Its a long and beautiful and powerful prayer that Jesus talked to god, and in that passage, there were no witnesses clearly shown. So, unless you believe in very specific Holy Spirit guidance t the writer "John", you must conclude that there is no way anyone could know for sure what Jesus was praying or saying. Examine John, chapter 17, Gospel.

[@davidjanes3511]

The disciples were present. Chapter 16 ends with Jesus and the disciples talking, and then, as Chapter 17 starts, He looks up into heaven and cracks off a prayer.

[@vhawk1951kl]

Quite right,well said. There is*Absolutely_No* way of determining that; what an asinine question to ask. it 's a bit like the bit of Catc-22 :" what*didn't* Yossarian say to you in the latrines?"

[@montagdp]

Sure, but for people who think Jesus and the early apostles could do miracles, or that God parted the Red Sea or held the sun still in the sky for a half day, there's no issue believing that the Holy Spirit also miraculously revealed the right words for John to write down. That's the whole point of inspiration of the scriptures.

[@lukeyznaga7627]

@@montagdp why should the bible be more sacred than other religous writings that were created way earlier that had similar messages? The old test is myth borrowed. It has changed real truths and legends and changed them into their own misconceptions. Read Zehariah sitchen and Andrew Collings books. What about Bart Ehrmann's books?

[@montagdp]

@@lukeyznaga7627 @lukeyznaga7627 you're preaching to the choir on that one. I'm just saying how a fundamentalist Christian would respond. They already believe in miracles, so it's no problem to believe that the Holy Spirit miraculously revealed something to the writer.

[@Pierre-vn5rh]

Merci pour cette vidéo. Intéressant et instructif.❤

[@tymbaryon]

Hi, I could not assist while you were on line as it was 1-2 o'clock. Nonetheless I did the following morning. One more thing, I am not from Austria rather from Italy. I live in the countryside and I use an Austrian 4G provider. Great teaching in understanding the Bible . Thank you very much

[@METVWETV]

There are Mormons in Austria?

[@alangriffin8146]

Is there a gospel supposedly written by Jesus Christ? I’d be really interested in that

[@michaelhenry1763]

No, there is not, but I believe there is a non-canonical letter supposedly written by Jesus.

[@vhawk1951kl]

Obviously not.

[@hollypothier6940]

Question! I always wondered if Jesus' hometown rejection was maybe included/preserved in the gospels as a jab at Jesus' family and possibly James' church in Jerusalem? I do think the sentiment "no prophet is without honor except in his hometown" is authentic, but it would be interesting to know how the framing of the story came together.

[@TheWendybird123]

Agree. It seems that those who were proponents of Peter were trying to marginalize the family of Jesus, and especially James, the leader of the movement in Jerusalem post-crucifixion.

[@todradmaker4297]

@@TheWendybird123 According to Paul, Peter and James were of the same mind set.

[@theunseenstevemcqueen]

Find a real archeologist, not one from Bible school, and they'll tell you there's zero evidence for any place called Nazereth until hundreds of years after the alleged time of jesus.

[@Rannsack]

I wish I had been able to ask this during the lecture: In Matthew there is the passage John Hamer quotes about "Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, " but in the gospel of Matthew itself, there are many examples of Jesus and his followers breaking the old laws. The break the Sabbath (Matt 12), Jesus touches a leper to heal him (Matt 18), or follow food taboos (Matt 15:11)he does not preach to "honour the mother and thy father" (Matt 8:21, 12:48, 10:35) Jesus wont even let a follower bury his own father! And that isnt even all of the examples, JUST in the Gospel of Matthew, where Jesus is definitely NOT following every iota of the old law. So would it be more likely that not only is Matt 5:17-18 probably not an authentic saying of Jesus, nut that it is also most likely not even originally a part of the Gospel of Matthew, but rather a later redaction by an editor?

[@TorianTammas]

The simple answer is we have so many gospels as non of them agreed with the other and so each author made there only true version and all others are false.

[@Rannsack]

@@TorianTammas Im only talking about Gosdepl of Matthew. gMatthew is contradicting itself. That's the problem. See examples above, all from the gospel of Matthew alone.

[@TorianTammas]

We have inconsistances in Robin Hood and Harry Potter, authors often are inconsistent in their stiry telling. Otherwise an author can have contradicting content he combines. Last but not least editors can put in or alter whatever they choose to.

[@Rannsack]

@@TorianTammas Yes, and since the part about the "iota of the law" is only in gMatt and is unattested anywhere else, it would seem possible for it to be later redaction.

[@mariakarayan9997]

Hi. I am greek. Let me confirm the word petra means stone. It refers to the fact peter is one of the stones of the 12 stones mentioned in revelation. Stones are being built up. Peter is only one stone/ disciple of the foundation stones of the faith of the WAY the main command to love. Taking the building of the temple literally is a mistake. Believers are being built up spiritual consciousness makes one rich mentally strong. The weak consciousness makes one materially rich

[@METVWETV]

Well said! And since John Hamer is a Mormon, we cannot trust anything that he says

[@paperback10]

I watch every presentation. I am subscribed and hit like every time.

[@METVWETV]

So you're a Mormon?

[@Stadtpark90]

1:13:35 what is the word for church? What did it mean, when there was no church while Jesus was alive?

[@cornstar1253]

Synagogue

[@EnoShadow-Walker]

Temple

[@centre-place]

In the New Testament, when the English word "church" appears, it translates from the Greek word ἐκκλησία (ekklēsia), which can be understood as "assembly."

[@TheWendybird123]

Love that you are convinced there is an independent witness at the core of the Gospel of Thomas. I do too. These are more esoteric sayings Jesus shared only with more spiritually advanced disciples - oral mystical tradition that had not meant to be written down. They are the meat teachings that even Paul referred to; unfortunately today most people only ever receive the milk teachings for the "babes in Christ". Nondualism or a consciousness of oneness, where separation from God and everyone/everything is the illusion or the lie, is at the heart of the teachings in the GoT - and discovering who one truly is as a child of God. And this is hard for many people to understand who are still in a dualistic good/evil and judging perception or mindset. The Kingdom is within you! Thank you, John and Centre Place!

[@biggernumber1]

Concerning the painting of Christ Pantocrator from Saint Catherine's Monastery, who did the mirroring? and who decided which half was the divine and human forms?

[@biggernumber1]

Because they have them mixed up, obviously.

[@julieruraya3640]

Meaning Jesus Christ was 100% human and 100% Divine I.e. Two natures in one.

[@METVWETV]

Except that's not a Mormon teaching

[@scienceexplains302]

*Book of Mark and Paul* Mark in 1:1 is titled “The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ.” _Some manuscripts add “… the Son of God.”_ That most likely refers to Paul’s word -gospel. Mark is apparently saying that he is writing a prequel to Paul’s claims. So when the young man says Jesus is going to Galilee to meet the disciples, that would tie in to Paul’s claims of Peter, etc, seeing Jesus

[@jeremycunningham7897]

Really like including a bibliography at the end, thanks! Great lecture

[@Duty_to_Warn]

I love this channel- thank you Mr Hamer. Studying Comparative Religion means you can look objectively at all religions. What that reveals is a pattern which shows that ALL holy books which were supposedly ‘inspired/sent/revealed by god’ are full of lies, contradictions, errors and faux history and were written after the event, by people who were not witnesses! Strangely enough these obscene old books become more ‘fact’ filled the further in time they are from the event!!! Could that be because they have been altered and additional material added? Some of the best punch lines in the New Testament were added into the manuscript margins centuries later by scribes, punch lines such as ‘Jesus wept’ and the evergreen ‘Let he is without sin cast the first stone’.

[@randyallen2966]

2 1/2 hour!! ❤❤ Thanks

[@lukeyznaga7627]

one thing I would find helpful, is just how many believers or Christians were there, by the end of 90 AD? was it a popular cult, or was it just a belief that wasn't strengthened yet by those in Roman power or the Church? Was Mithraism more popular than Christianity UNTIL 320 Ad? if the truth and miracles of Jesus were real, shouldn't there be a LOT of Jesus followers by 90 AD?

[@lukeyznaga7627]

okay, but still. hard to believe that 100 years later, other authorities and nations hadn't heard about Jesus and what he did and his followers.@@xp7575

[@lukeyznaga7627]

It would be the travelling merchants that spread the word the fastest. via their boats and their "camel trains".@@xp7575

[@todradmaker4297]

It is difficult to know the exact numbers, but there is evidence that there were Christian communities throughout the Mediterranean region by 90 AD.

[@lukeyznaga7627]

@@todradmaker4297 thats kind of important.

[@METVWETV]

Why are you asking this of a Mormon?

[@yoyoschmo1]

I was always taught in my Protestant evangelical church that “rock” meant foundation of knowledge but not in reference to Peter and was wondering if there would be a way to know the difference

[@wboyle9721]

Peter also means unripe grape

[@METVWETV]

Why are you seeking advice from a Mormon?

[@nadiahope7775]

very interesting your point history/theology...I submit to you that the ground question we should start with is: how to know that history of humanity is TRUE knowing that it is written by people that all have different perception of things according to their belief system ? any eye witness even today depends on how good is his perception/expression/integrity/belief system...that is why we look for other witnesses to make the matter MORE close to the truth

[@vhawk1951kl]

Try not to abuse capitals titch; they emphasise nothing but loony hysteria and by abusing them you declare yourself to be an hysterical lunatic. Nonsense shouted is till nonsense. At several thousand years remove it is simply impossible to determine *Anything* about the jesus chap, thus the word authentic cannot have any application; there being no criteria by which authenticity can be determined. There*Are_No* first person accounts of the chap.

[@nadiahope7775]

​@@vhawk1951kl english is not my first language and I don't understand what point you are trying to make but waouuu, you are using so many toxic/sick wording in few sentences, quote: "abuse, hysterical, lunatic..." I guess you are talking about yourself here

[@longcastle4863]

That is why we have historical and literary scholarship. To be able to determine what in ancient texts are true and legitimate and not just what the writer or subsequent redactors wanted to be true. It relies on a specific kind of scholarly methodology and peer review (which is very important, because your fellow scholars are not going to allow you to get away with sloppy reasoning, methodology or just making stuff up). Additionally, there is also having the ability (the high level of scholarship) to be able to get your findings and ideas published in scholarly accredited journals -that are independently accredited by being independently and periodically reviewed and found to have maintained high and reliable standards of scholarship.

[@mirandaaskew]

Thanks for these.

[@Zersetzor]

Not to be disrespectful, but since it came up in the beginning: I really love all your lectures and am still not subscribed to the channel. The reason is quite simple, and I suspect it applies to other viewers: I don't care about all the other videos on the channel. I seem to recall that youtube used to have a feature where a channel could be divided into 'shows' or something of the sort, and you could then subscribe to these shows without subscribing to the entire channel. I may be misremembering, and I don't know if that is still possible, but that would be a neat solution.

[@normative]

I’ll actually cosign this: I’d love to subscribe to a channel with all John’s historical lectures but am not really interested in the more frequent liturgical material.

[@HamerToronto]

I appreciate this feedback. We'll see if there's some way we can segregate things. We publish the lectures as a category with the hope that people interested in the list are only getting prompted for that category, but we don't control the platform's algorithm. We'll explore options, thanks!

[@Jaggerbush]

@@xp7575 right?!?! These people are acting like they are paying for this or it's somehow eating up space on their hard drive! Idiots.

[@METVWETV]

Why are you subscribing to a Mormon channel at all?!

[@longcastle4863]

Why just ignore the other content when it comes up on your Notifications page. That’s what I do.

[@michaelhenry1763]

Thank you for a great lecture. I think it is difficult to say with certain to make positive claims of what Jesus said. It is easier to say what he did not say . For example, any Greek wordplay statements such as John 3:16, Jesus would not have said. Anything on the cross, Would not have been from Jesus. What I find interesting is Mark’s account of Jesus’ last words on the cross. When Jesus is last words quoting Psalm 22 in Aramaic, the surrounding people say Jesus is calling out to Elijah. So, the people were close enough to hear something, but enough to misunderstand what they were hearing. It could be that Jesus was calling out to God, but no one could actually hear what he was saying. Therefore, in order to make it conform to Scripture, Mark put Psalm 22 on Jesus’ lips.

[@I.Clarify]

short answer: 2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. and Jn 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. More so: 1 Co 3:19 , Pro 3:5-6 ok God bless!

[@shirleymcclintock3056]

That verse was referring to the Old Testament not the New Testament.

[@I.Clarify]

@@shirleymcclintock3056 OT is foreshadowing of the NT all of Jesus's works being foretold as witness to Him Messiah, the Christ -- The Son of God Jn 14:29 (28-30) Jn 1:1 1 Jn 5-7 The Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one

[@longcastle4863]

Which is what the Vedas, the sacred writings of Hinduism, claim as well. So..

[@liepa7768]

Good lecture. However, it could be shorter and less jumping from topic to topic. In the end it's hard to understand what point lecturer is making.

[@longcastle4863]

Disagree. A thorough lecture and of perfect length. Listen more than once. It ties together thoughtfully and very well

[@seekstruth1655]

shouldnt historical jesus be a wee bit darker?

[@Madferreiro]

Yeah, but thats not relevant in this case.

[@ChrisQuadFPV]

4:30 Jesus looks like Rambo on the far right side 😂

[@denaisaacthiswasgreat.thum7598]

I thought the breaking of bread was like saying sharing a meal and that it means to remember Jesus and his sacrifice when you break bread or drink wine, which everyone did. Also bread is symbolic isnt it?

[@patrickkish6662]

Yes, and yes? I've baked and shared many loaves of bread. And one of the metaphorical interpretations I've made(within myself), is that when we purify the truth of our being, through Christ, and share that loving truth with others, that may be akin to us also being an extension of the bread of God. But I feel this action must be of the purest intent of love, and selflessness.

[@mutamirmukhzani1240]

It's his knowledge and teachings. That's why there's something in Paul's teaching that states it's not what goes inside your body that's unclean rather what goes out that does. If you think about it how does that makes sense when jesus himself observe kosher?

[@METVWETV]

​@mutamirmukhzani1240 So you know better than Paul? You do understand that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and was raised a Jew and was a Jew. As such, He followed Jewish law to perfection because He was the perfect unblemished Lamb. John Hamer is a Mormon and his "teachings" will only mislead you

[@Abrahamos]

Great work

[@JohnMcCloskey-g9o]

O God we pray to see Your lite and feel Your zeal.. make our lives filled with Your love... Let us receive the wisdom and knowledge to understand Your truth... Give us strength and power of mind to maintain order. Let Your will be done now and at the judgement... Let all things be eliminated that may interfere .. May our destiny be victory with JESUS forever and ever..... John

[@METVWETV]

Lite is a slang word and means "less of" as in, Lite Beer. John Hamer is a Mormon which is NOT Christian, it's not even "Christian Lite!" It's a lie from the pit of Hell

[@HearTruth]

I guess you are Seeking Him for that is a good thing. Seek Ask Knock but all the doubt is like a black cloud over you and worse you profess these doubts to an audience. Mtt 12:36 , 2 Pt 2:1 Mtt 10:33 I am praying your eyes will open in the Name of Christ Jesus. Jn 17:17 God bless

[@todradmaker4297]

If something is true it should withstand the test of doubt.

[@longcastle4863]

Blah blah blah blah Bible is not an argument. The ancient sacred writings of other religions make similar claims. Why believe your sacred writings, but not the sacred writings of other religions?

[@HearTruth]

@@longcastle4863 Many other religions sacred texts have Bible archetype If their doctrine declares The One True God and His Son you are good to go. 1 Jn 5:20 Jn 17:3 Jn 3:15-17

[@JohntheBeloved07]

Whats with the hand gesture the painter gave Jesus at around 5:00 minutes in to the video? Im pretty sure ive seen many religious figures painted making that gesture

[@hygujiuy]

I think it is a sign language for ICXC which is an abbreviation of Jesus Christ in Greek. Just to make it clear that this is a picture of him. Also heard that Christians used it when greeting each other sort of like a gang sign.

[@Histy.wrld.]

John, I was going to post this on the Kirkland video. However I can no longer find it. I know you get a lot of messages etc. I want to say! Thank you for what you do... I was baptized Baptist, my father was Seventh Day Adventist, and attended an Episcopal Church for much of my teenage years .. I am a US Army vet of 3 tours to Iraq and 1 to Haiti. I have enjoyed your lectures because it has drawn me closer to my faith when I have struggled to see any reason. Thank youl!

[@HamerToronto]

Thank you so much for your kind words and for your service.

[@METVWETV]

You don't mention when you became a Mormon, like John?

[@SallyGehrke]

Thank you, John

[@scottmanleyAZ]

Amazing channel. Great content and delivery

[@jonathonjubb6626]

How can there be any?

[@Zxuma]

How can we even know?

[@longcastle4863]

Biblical, historical, literary critical scholarship

[@Gabby-er1sr]

The stoning of the adulterous woman was lacking in the laws demand that both the man and woman were to be stoned . Was it a pharisee that was omitted from punishment in that case ?

[@michaelhenry1763]

Who knows. All we know it was a story written into John by latter scribes.

[@METVWETV]

​@michaelhenry1763 "Latter" as in Latter Day Saints? As in John Hamer is a Mormon so why are you watching him?

[@cbost3121]

Love all your videos!

[@dougwulf6684]

Burt Ehrman and his books and courses are also excellent.

[@laurastabell2489]

Enjoyable!

[@douglaslegvold9215]

John Ludwig Hamer? Chess grandmaster from Norway? Has anybody ever seen these two together in a room at the same time?😮

[@METVWETV]

Maybe at John's Mormon Church?

[@SeattleDinghyer]

Is this the first lecture with ad breaks? They are so... jarring in comparison to the talk.

[@centre-place]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. This is a setting change from the platform and not our intention. We will correct it as soon as possible.

[@ubermod5564]

Good presentation but your section on apocalyptic sayings is rather muddled. You acknowledge that apocalyptic thinking was big in Jesus' time, but then dismiss apocalyptic sayings in Mark as anachronistic. Yes, some of Mark's specific references appear anachronistic and in the context of the fallout from the crushing of Jewish revolt in 66ce. But this does not mean many of Jesus' other apocalyptic sayings are not historical, in fact it's very likely they did go back to Jesus.

[@eyeinthesky7336]

The fact that you may have some theme that says he didn't say it means nothing because the evidence we have is that he did say it

[@loc404]

Can you share your evidences?

[@eyeinthesky7336]

@loc404 John 10:30-38

[@eyeinthesky7336]

However if you can't see it you have no business to be teaching anything from the Bible

[@Pantokrator1]

Anybody else feel a lack of fluidity to this lecture?

[@METVWETV]

It's the restless in your spirit having been deceived by a Mormon

[@longcastle4863]

No

[@beefwine]

Thanks for this. Feedback: Is there any way this lecture could be set out in a simpler and clearer way? Maybe I am lacking in intellect but I found it hard to understand. What I got from it after listening for about 20 minutes is that … actually I don’t even know. Would it be possible to have a simple overview of the main purpose and points of the lecture at the beginning so that it is more accessible to non-experts?

[@centre-place]

Thank you for the feedback, we are working on shorter length content, but I assure you that if you watch more of our lectures you will start to get a much better sense of how everything fits together.

[@Sportliveonline]

brilliant stuff

[@elnegrohotep]

I'm wondering and hopefully there is a video with the differences between historical Jesus and the religious figure of Jesus

[@langreeves6419]

Yes, he has done a lecture on that

[@METVWETV]

Why do you care what a Mormon has to "teach" you?

[@EvolutionFitness369]

"Hey, everybody, where's the wine?" "He" truly said this😜

[@davidjanes3511]

Oh, that's cool. Is that in the Bible?

[@denaisaacthiswasgreat.thum7598]

Thank You Shepard.❤

[@METVWETV]

Is that what they call Mormon leaders?

[@julieruraya3640]

Jesus said, “Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.” There is a lot of wisdom in these words. Also in Mathew 18 says: "Then he said, 'In truth I tell you, unless you change and become like little children you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven. .."

[@longcastle4863]

Become like little children, how?

[@edwardt4283]

Literacy @ c. 1:45:00 - very interesting

[@lukeyznaga7627]

ref. to 39:04 - Yes, to the third and no, to the fourth bullet point. Embarrassment, and Consistency. To Christian Understanding, answer unknown. to Multiple attestation, no. These are my opinions. My life experience and learning makes me say these things.

[@METVWETV]

Is it based in Mormon belief like John Hamer is?

[@androgyme]

I hadn't intended to watch this but it wound up being very germane to a project I'm working on, so I'm glad the almighty algorithm auto selected it for me! To be clear, tho I DO intend to watch every John Hamer lecture on this channel eventually, he's AMAZING, and far more sane than other would-be biblical lecturers like Jordan Peterson, whose earlier lectures I still think are quite good, and must be given no small amount of credit for why I've been delving into biblical history quite deeply for the past few years, but ever since teaming up with Ben Shapiro seems to have something other than academic integrity driving his content _across the board _which is a shame.

[@bannor99]

If Mark is the oldest gospel, why is it not 1st in the New Testament?

[@longcastle4863]

The people who put the books of the Bible in order way back when, didn’t know the (approximate) dates when the gospels or any of the other books of the Bible were written.

[@rayneweber5904]

Missed it. Gosh darn it. Darn it to Heck and back. Well thanks for posting anywho

[@lukeyznaga7627]

I subscribed

[@AnnaSibirskaja]

54:00 I don't see this argument as valid. They were beggars: can't trust their stories.

[@garylovan630]

Because these lectures make sense, they do more to undermine any remaining capacity in me to accept orthodoxy than any atheist polemic ala Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins. C.S. Lewis was right when he predicated his faith on the myth become history. If the literary portrait doesn't reveal the historical reality, orthodox Christianity is unbelievable. What you are then left with is the love of the truths revealed in the sayings. Something related to Tolstoy's version of Christianity. Or nothing.

[@SpiritLevel888]

What's recorded in the BIBLE are Jesus' *Authentic* sayings. VAST multitudes seeking truth *fail to find* because they're easily *led astray* by worldly logic, sensuality, vain esoterism or specious mysticisms. *I know I was.* I'm an ex neo-vedantic (hindu roots) new ager. I used to be into so much "cosmic/spiritual" stuff: trance channelings, ancient wisdom, gnosticism, psychedelic drugs, hindu gurus and buddhist variants. I was illuminated by the *kundalini (serpent) spirit* then 8 years ago I got rightly enlightened by the *Holy Spirit* - which showed me what a *fool* I was before..... Spirit led to the REAL *Yahusha/Jesus Christ* and everything changed - *Paradigm Shifted* ..... This is being *BORN AGAIN* and it's an ongoing surprise to me 😁 Spirituality is a *soul serious* business taken way too lightly by *far too many* ..... ..... the end-times are *dead ahead,* a time of tribulation and Antichrist is near. Sadly, it escapes the notice of our self-absorbed, glamour-saturated world that we're in a spiritual WAR for souls. The immensity of *ignorance* is astonishing: the dark powers are BEDAZZLING the minds of the masses (Ephesians 6:12). We've inherited ancient spiritual subversion: *the Earth is fallen* ..... the holistic fields of nature are degraded. *Death is all too familiar.* Natural life hunts, kills and feeds on itself. Humanity is a spiritually *fallen race* highly prone to *deceit and delusion* Frankly, we need a *SAVIOUR* and by Jesus Christ we have a *GREAT ONE* As a new ager I couldn't believe (I was *damn sure* I knew better) but in the *Light of Spirit* Jesus really is the *Way, the truth and the Life* just like He said: no one comes to GOD except through Jesus, there's no other way (Matthew 7:13-14). Being a neo-vedantist I wasn't convinced, yet, turns out the Bible is Spirit breathed, written by men inspired by the *Holy Spirit.* Jesus is vividly portrayed and endorsed in the new testament, in fact he's apparent in the old testament too (Luke 24:27 & 44) and by *His LIGHT* we're allowed to *see* that and *know Him.* Any previously perceived discrepancies or contradictions are ironed out and the supernatural narrative flows most beautifully..... . ....... the Bible is the Revelation of *Jesus Christ* (Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6-7 & 45:23, Matthew 28:18, Mark 14:61-62, Revelation 1:7-8 & 18, Rev 19:11-21)

[@Utah_Man_Sir]

Another excellent lecture. Thank you!

[@sharonericson480]

It would be helpful if there were not so many words, thoughts, participle clauses, phrases, that precede conjunctions and prepositions instead of following them. Breathing. Taking a pause, a breath, a moment to allow for thinking, would be very helpful. Spacing words in clumps instead of breathless spewing, interrupted by bursts of giggles, would also help clarity as you dismantle and disseminate structures of Faith. Please consider a speech coach.

[@theunseenstevemcqueen]

Its impossible to prove that the Jesus portrayed in the Gospels either did or did not exist. So EVERYTHING said here is pure speculation.

[@darksaurian6410]

"like and subscribe" he finally caved in. On one hand this channel would be bigger if he caved in sooner. On the other it wouldn't be as cool if it was more popular.

[@davidharner5865]

Josephus was a travel guide writer, not a Historian.

[@justinkindler9682]

Another fire 100% Hamer lecture!

[@edwardt4283]

Why is, "Which Jesus are we talking about?", such a non-issue question?????

[@EvelynElaineSmith]

Many of the sayings of Jesus are very similar to those found in the Dead Sea scrolls, so most probably like John the Baptist, Jesus was influenced by the Essenes. They also often rephrase passages from what is now the Old Testament (or the Hebrew Bible, the Tanahk). BTW, the brother of Jesus, James the Just, the leader of the first Christians in Jerusalem after Jesus's death wasn't "executed" but was martyred -- the Sanhedrin pushed him off the Temple Mount & then finished of the severely injured man by stoning him.

[@METVWETV]

You expect accuracy from a Mormon?

[@TheLeonhamm]

That's easy; if authentic is taken to mean - authoritative, authorised, verified = authenticated, - then the texts received, accepted and handed on in the traditions of the Catholic Church are the 'authentic' voice of the Word made flesh, He who spoke with divine authority (regardless of the language in which men recorded that teaching). The Syriac texts, aka a formalised written Aramaic, like the Coptic versions, are later translations or transliterations of the Greek forms; for even in Christ's lifetime Greek was the written form for literature intended to be read widely .. as was the semi-official Latin, later French, and now English - i.e. the 'holy' languages used on Christ's gibbet = Hebrew, Greek and Latin (these were not the spoken language of the people). Thus the various formats of the Good News and Christian Testament and its Preaching would 'originally' have been spoken in the speaker's own tongue but also formed into a language better known locally - cf Simon Peter (the Rock's choice of rock) with his simple tradesman Galilean Aramaic (quite unlike the refined, if inelegantly expressed, Hellenistic Rabbinical Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek of Saul called Paul). But the 'genuine' form - as finally set down on paper - was naturally that of the then common tradesman kinds of dispersed Greek (with Latinisations where needed), usually relying on the Alexandrian Greek translations and transliterations of the earlier Hebrew and Aramaic and Greek texts accepted as 'all scripture' aka the Septuagint versions. Note that, the 'original', 'genuine' and 'authentic' are not synonyms though these apply - differently - to the same texts; the authentic forms of the genuine texts of the original words were those customarily (then traditionally) used in Christian liturgies, as in the Catholic Eucharistic Sacrifice, etc; so reimposing a transliteration or translation of a Latin(-ised) Greek form of an Aramaic term turned back into a written Aramaic format does not give one the authentic, genuine or indeed the original form used .. only an extra layer of post-mortem interpretation; knowing the meanings (there are usually more than one) of the terms in English, Latin, Greek and Aramaic / Hebrew can add to our understanding .. yet not replace the text actually received, accepted and handed on as 'all scripture' - which is, in and of itself, inspired or god-breathed or gifted (not just an accidental record of the spoken words). Keep the Faith; tell the truth, shame the devil, and let the demons shriek. God bless. ;o) P.S. If you find the above difficult to follow just try wading through the stuff today's biblical text scholars wade through, invent or publish.

[@michaelhenry1763]

Authentic is used to mean historical

[@TheLeonhamm]

@@michaelhenry1763 Ah! Yes. That is even closer to the Tradition expressed (at one time, if no longer) in Rome's Catholicism. History alters even while it does not change; the 'historical' .. Jesus .. is that of Catholicism, it holds the copyright values on what it received, accepted, and handed on (traditio/ traditionis); and that is as close as we can come to the Word made flesh, a man like us in all things except sin, The Lord: Jesus called the Christ (the Messiah, or Anointed). True Church Latin as used in today's Anglo-Saxon milieu is rather different in sound and spelling, though not meaning, to that of 19th century England or used in the 14th century, or in pre-Anglo-Saxon Britain etc; that is history. So too the words spoken, and the meaning given them, by the divine Son born of the Virgin Mary, as they were received or understood, and interpreted, and translated into written Greek (of the common sort); all this is history. But the actual man, the men (and women) about him, and those who heard them and their witness and recorded it in these writings cannot be ripped from that history - other than in fanciful reconstructive and therefore deceptive imaginative interpretation; and that, dear soul, is neither history nor historical (but more or less private interpretation of those inspired texts). Keep the Faith; tell the truth, shame the devil, and let the demons shriek. God bless. ;o) Note well: The Christ of the Catholic Tradition may be rather oddly balanced in presenting Jesus .. and His Good News .. but it is the historical record, and it was recorded in Greek for better or worse.

[@michaelhenry1763]

@@TheLeonhamm I think you are pretty much correct. There is real no ability to separate out the Jesus of Nazareth of the first century from the Christ of faith.

[@jessebengson1015]

If one were to apply this man's historical methodlogy more generally, one could discount the historical veracity of almost anything anyone said or did over a generation ago.

[@jefffarris9238]

Right, but people don’t consider those people divine. With Jesus there are theological and religious considerations. And in any case, historical scholars DO question whether or not someone said something, unless they wrote it down. Which Jesus did not.

[@jessebengson1015]

The inference I am getting from your statement is that the divine should be doubted? @@jefffarris9238

[@miyojewoltsnasonth2159]

"Which Sayings of Jesus Are Authentic?" _This_ should be an interesting lecture.

[@sciptick]

Since about everything Mark is seen to have his Jesus say is paraphrased from Paul's opinions, the conservative choice would be "none". Certainly Paul writing in the 50s, and 1 Clement in the 60s, show no hint of having ever heard of any Jesus saying or doing literally anything. Paul never has to explain why his opinions don't contradict Jesus's.

[@esthersmith3056]

​​@@sciptick bart ehrman has a video which asserts that paul does in fact contradict jesus.

[@METVWETV]

​@@esthersmith3056 Bart Ehrman is a renowned Atheist and John Hamer is a Mormon Leader! What is it that you're looking for?

[@teachnola10]

@@METVWETVif you’re starting with your preferred answer and working backwards, why bother asking to begin with?

[@METVWETV]

​@teachnola10 If you're looking for answers from the Bible why ask a Fool and a Liar? That's why

[@johnpro2847]

12:00 this image of jesus is not marketable..the young handsome surfer type image often presented appeals to far more people..amen

[@johnpro2847]

which sayings of Jesus are authentic..as no one was note taking, none can be regarded as his actual words..just like the words of King Lear in a Shakespeare play...amen

[@kunjimoncm1501]

Why not? He did seal with his own blood his law. You know his law that you give the one to others in two of you. If not break the law of Jesus anyone cannot enter to the kingdom of God. The story of the guy that break the hard law of Jesus is the servent of God in Isaiah 42 and 53

[@maryhitchcock-nn1nm]

Super bummer I missed it Live. I was on notification too. Argh.

[@SeattleDinghyer]

Me, too.. grr

[@RadicalCaveman]

KZbin's notifications are notoriously unreliable.

[@maryhitchcock-nn1nm]

Ah makes sense. Thanks for the tip!

[@todradmaker4297]

I'm subscribed with the notification button turned on and I never get notified. I have to actively seek it out when it's scheduled to air.

[@johnpro2847]

which are authentic saying's of jesus ? none can me considered authentic without embellishment or just not his sayings at all .No one was taking notes. The write up was done between 30 and 90 years later..plenty of time to manipulate the stories to fit a well defined story line..amen

[@longcastle4863]

That’s why there is a thing called historical and literary scholarship.

[@lukeyznaga7627]

its all very nice to make prophecies to any people. but when the prophecy has to be fulfilled many centuries later, how does that help at all the people who were initially preached to or prophesized to in the first place? If a prophecy is not quickly proven, its phoney and if you wait long enough, many events can seem to fulfill a prophecy, especially if you have some one TELL you, that the prophecy is fulfilled, with any proof.

[@skylarkprowrestler]

The damn picture isn't even authentic

[@longcastle4863]

You missed the point

[@julieruraya3640]

Why all this discussions on hiw Jesus really looks like? If you ask a child to draw their parent, be rest assured they will. Just because you think the drawing does not resemble the parent , that does not change the fact that it is really a drawing if the child's parent.. no wonder Jesus said " Blessed are those who believe yet have not seen.." Wah! worldlings interrogate everything. Many "Thomas's " for they seek signs and wonders amongst many otther things. Lord have mercy. Amen

[@nosuchthing8]

The idea that the story must be true if embarrassing is tenuous at best. I have heard some claim that the women seeing Jesus rise from the grave must be true because such a macho culture would never accept claims from women. This fails when you remember that this episode ties to the cult of dionysus who had women see dionysus raise from the dead.

[@normative]

Nobody says they “must” be true; just that other things equal they are more likely to be historical. Your example isn’t a good objection to the principle because, as you yourself note, it overlooks the good reasons early Christians might have to invent such a story: in the instance, because women were involved in funerary preparations and would be plausible characters to find the tomb… and because the empty tomb in itself is not particularly important evidence for the resurrection. It just illustrates we can’t be sloppy about assuming what’s embarrassing or dissimilar.

[@longcastle4863]

My understanding is that it was always the women and slaves who prepared the bodies for burial in those days. And that men in Palestine at that time considered such task, not necessarily below them, but just not something men were assigned to do. But again that is just my understanding as a non biblical scholar.

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

In Matthew 12 Jesus defined what he called "the Sign of Jonah" by way of a prophecy that his burial would be for a duration of less than 72 hours. 20th century studies of his burial shroud have confirmed that his body was removed from that shroud in less than 48 hours after his death. Therefore, Jesus prophecy of a short term burial is validated, which indicates that he actually must have spoken those words. "For just as the prophet Jonah remained in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights." See: The Image on the Turin Shroud Is "The Sign of Jonah" For Our Generation!, by Rev. Larry Stalley, 2020 and: The Enigma of the Sign of Jonah, BSTS Shroud Newletter, Issue No. 97, Summer 2023

[@todradmaker4297]

Jesus died at 3:00 on Friday afternoon and rose from the dead by Sunday morning; so about 40 hours.

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

@@todradmaker4297 TY. 40 hours is less than 72.

[@kensmith8152]

I find it rather supercilious that these people can think what and what is not authentic in Jesus’ sayings

[@longcastle4863]

It’s called historical and literary scholarship.

[@kensmith8152]

@@longcastle4863: Have you ever heard of the Jesus Seminar? These guy’s meet once a year, they meet in a room and have a vote on which verses they think that Jesus did not say. They are given colored balls and depending on their position put the appropriate colored ball in a bag they pass around! What it’s all about is people’s opinions straight up. Secondly, people like Bart Ehrman will come up with some controversial view just to be able to meet his academic obligation to write and sell his books. Like a lot of so called biblical scholars, new discoveries in archeology proves them wrong. I don’t know if you’re a believer or not, but I’d rather put my trust in the word of God than the opinion’s of men!!!

[@johnpro2847]

was jesus a real god..No..but his followers turned him into a god over time...

[@michaelhenry1763]

22:11 I disagree. I do not think Paul was passing along a tradition. He wrote he received his new ritual directly from Jesus. I think he made it up in an attempt to create new rituals for his new gentile Christians. In other places, Paul says when he gets traditions from others. The lord’s supper was not one of them.

[@METVWETV]

If Paul made something up, then he lied! If he lied, he's unworthy to have been a Church leader and Builder! And we have a New Testament, 2/3s of which is composed of Lies! Oh and Peter would have had to have lied too! Speaking of lies, why do you listen to the lies of one of the leaders of the Mormon Church? Look up who and what John is!