Centrifugal Superchargers in Pro Mod

The centrifugal supercharger is not a new invention, but if you have been around drag racing recently, you have definitely heard that it is the new hot item for 2020.
In this video, Tim provides a brief breakdown on how centrifugal superchargers work, their recent implementation in NHRA Pro Modified, converting a door slammer build for the combination and much, much more.
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The information contained in this video is based on the opinion of Tim McAmis and his 30+ years in the motorsport and manufacturing industries. Any action you take based upon the content provided shall be done at your own risk. TMRC and its affiliates are not liable for any losses and/or damages in connection with the use of this information.

[@-MacCat-]

And the best part of any Tim McAmis explanation is that he tells it like it is. No bullshit, no fluff. Just the facts, delivered in his own inimitable style.

[@dabro1059]

We’re gonna spin the shit out of this impeller ! Gotta love the man.

[@Rockpil]

Love all your videos Tim! You tell it like it is and that's refreshing.

[@toddjones5382]

I love that you do this Tim. This doesn't just benefit you. It benefits the entire industry. It even makes me what to change career direction. Thanks

[@lknanml]

"Number one do you have room to hang all this garbage.." As a little drool escapes out the left side of my mouth......

[@lunkydog]

If they do too good, NHRA will just hang a restrictor on them with the stroke of a pen to keep the N2O and blower companies happy. There used to be a saying about the Gene Adams rule where you get penalized for success.

[@sepg5084]

yup, just how Le Mans banned the rotary engine after Mazda won. European manufacturers cannot compete so they just get the rotary banned.

[@RyTrapp0]

Don't like it? Don't race there - everyone knows the rules when they come to play ball, and the NHRA absolutely does not make it a secret that they want all of the power adders to be COMPETITIVE, it is NOT an 'unlimited' class. There's a reason why outlaw organizations exist - and there's a reason why the NHRA still exists. Neither is "wrong", one isn't "better" than the other(as shown by the recent growth of the NHRA's PM class) regardless of your personal preference

[@UniCrafter]

Very similar in dB drag racing and similar variants. It all comes down to standards. One of the most popular is called something similar to super street or super stock, where you can make any modifications behind the B pillar, but none infront, stock cab, stock windshield, and for the top end competitors every run they shatter the windscreen, but if they replace it with, say, lexan they go into the "no limits" category and are up against builds literally 100x louder.

[@orppranator5230]

RyTrapp0 Don’t go down that rabbit hole mate, eventually it gets to “ don’t like this planet? Go somewhere else!”

[@benjamins9121]

@@sepg5084 Its not about that, it's that it ruins the racing until the other companies design their own. Same thing happens in Formula 1. William's put a CVT in their car and F1 knew it would be so advantageous that they would dominate until the other teams made their own. At the end of the day the regulations guys have to keep the racing as competitive as possible so something that basically makes one team win for a year or two ruins that for that year or two, so its banned. I'm not saying I like it. I love rotary engines, matter of fact I have an unmodified 94 FD RX-7, with the factory 13b, original turbos still in their stock cofiguration (thinking about getting some spare fenders to cut up to put a rocket bunny kit on, who knows), and a big single turbo 13b Miata drag car. Ive taken them both to "Sevenstock" in Fontana CA. They are awesome but there not the end all be all. They would be a lot more popular on the road and in racing if they were

[@anetworkservice]

Thanks Tim, Another great video. That is the biggest ProCharger I've ever seen... HUGE!

[@clist9406]

Pro charger setup looks great ,but my focus was on the chassis table and jig setup. Your definitely have your shit together , and I respect you tell it like it is. " Spin the shit out of it "

[@rpmunlimited397]

Hi Tim I stumbled across your videos surfing the web recently. I find them very interesting from a engineering time line of the sports development. I grew up thru the 70s into the 90s with circle track racing and the same progression in engine, chassis, shock ect development was similar to drag racing. Unfortunately the cost associated with the advancement drives a huge number of participants out the sports. In hind sight the most fun we had was the first few years working half the night in a back yard shop with a wood heater for heat hanging out with friends and neighbors figuring out how to make cherry picked junk yard parts run faster then the week before. Keep the videos coming

[@currentbatches6205]

11:40 - 'Way back, a 6-71 blower was a 6-71 blower. Then Ohio George started running his with what was rumored to be VERY tight clearances (they whined like hell at the finish line), and a specific 6-71 was no longer a general 6-71. If you read much about Henry Miller, he ran all sorts of centrifugal blowers at Indy in the '20s, and there were all sorts of hot-rod mods, especially regarding the aero on the supersonic tip speeds, and intercooling to allow decent CRs. Horse-back: That impeller is ~8" diameter, meaning a circumference of 2'. At 70KRPM, (unless I dropped a decimal) that means ~1600MPH - mach 2+. Pretty sure some really bright aero-guys are gonna be on that like stink on stuff, along some thermo-guys working like hell to get the compressive temps down. So I doubt these will remain as constant as they are now, especially once NHRA begins regulating them.

[@sqlsmarty4325]

Always great information! 😎👍

[@mikeschwindt7407]

Hey Tim, I would love to see you get back in a pro mod.. Is there any chance we might see that happen.

[@georgem.6136]

As usual another great video!

[@KSIXRIDER]

Great info as always!

[@thomasvittetoe1930]

Holly crap that thing is huge

[@foxrodx2757]

Thomas Vittetoe that’s what she said!

[@WarShrike]

Had one not quite that big hanging off a BBC and I was like, "Um, do we need a different engine stand?"

[@darnellquesnel1832]

Biggest street use are generally a f1r f1x or f1a. This is probably a pro mod spec f2

[@99prochargedbird85]

@@darnellquesnel1832 The F2 Procharger is only 10.5" volute diameter. Procharger F-3R-121, F-3R-130, F-3R- 136 are 12" volute diameter. Promods that use Prochargers will run F-3X-140 which is a 13.5" volute diameter, flow 4800cfm maximum boost 60psi. Procharger still has bigger ones F-3X-143 and working on the F-3X-150 procharger and is most likely already out.

[@sadittyf]

Can’t wait to buy our f3R on a gear drive set up

[@codyratliff8302]

Please keep em coming! Tmrc best ever built!

[@mikeh8506]

Excellent video, thanks!

[@808vws8]

I wonder if Tim talks to his wife&momma the same way? You crack me up Tim! Aloha from Hawaii🤙🏽

[@jbin2424]

"Looking at this montage of billet aluminium bullshit up here in front of this engine" Im dead. Best one yet. We love you, Tim!

[@ZacLowing]

I want a video of him going through his tool box. I miss the clanks, tell us about the ones you've made and cool ones you've found. Anything odd somewhere in the tool box? There really should be a show about a guy going around and interviewing them about their tools. Guys always have a strange set of something's they had to get for just one job. I knew one guy that spray painted all his big aluminum tools(2-4" range) bright pink so they didn't walk, but still did. It was a large food processing place, but I digress, lol

[@jamesdegraff]

You need a T-Shirt that says "Billet Aluminum Bull-Shit"... Tim cracks me up.

[@daviddntait]

I love how a race car gets to the point of needing all the weight shifted to the front because it will just wheelie the whole track! Fun to tune and experiment with this caliber of car

[@Yokes27]

Friend of mine knows Tyler Herd sp? who has a 2 car team with Kevin McCurdy and they had both cars setup with prochargers at Yellowbullet and they talked how much they loved them and ran big numbers very early on in testing. Love all the info in your vids Tim thanks

[@Timmcamis]

We talk about Tyler and Kevin around 5 mins into the video.

[@Yokes27]

@@Timmcamis yea i watched after i commented. Cart in front of horse by me

[@benjamins9121]

It's a far cry from a pro mod but I've had a 76mm turbo on my Cobra, a 3 liter Whipple, and now a Ti Trim V1 Vortech. The Vortech is my favorite. It's a great compromise, better low end power and throttle response/no lag, starts building boost immediately, than a turbo, and it pulls hard at the top giving you a linear powerband like an N/A motor. IMO it's the best of both worlds. Plus they're simple. They bolt right in with no fabbing (for a street car kit from Vortech) something even the better turbo kits cant provide, theres always fabbing with them. The centrifugal allows regular exhaust and bolts right in not requiring you to remove things like the A/C compressor or the strut tower brace like a P/D twin screw/ roots, which is important for wannabe road racers like yours truly who want the stiffness upfront, ,Not to mention they wear out slower, and even when they do rebuilding a centrifugal SC'er is east and cheap. To top it all off you get some of the turbo sounds that are awesome, the whistle, BOV etc.

[@onedayiwillmakesomecontent]

That would look fully sick hanging off the front of my barra lol! Loving that build plate the chassis was up on.

[@hotdogger420]

The way he says bullllshit warms my heart

[@chrnc]

Tim is awesome!!!

[@ChuyTech]

Good information 👍

[@Taras-Nabad]

Very informative video.

[@sweenep86]

Game changer, think how many races have been lost bumping in trying to build boost or roots cars losing belts.

[@krazziee2000]

good info, thanks

[@brosselot1]

been around since 1993 we ran a procharger on our outlaw truck in 1995 which was belt driven we just changed to a direct drive. Very easy to tune to good and bad surfaces.

[@RyTrapp0]

We'll see if Procharger can solve their durability problems in their big HP racing stuff - there have been a LOT of big HP racers stuck on the trailer with a broken Procharger gearbox over the last few years

[@joeculpjr3028]

Hey Mr Tim, first let me say thank you for the explanation on how involved a conversion is for the pro charger set up is and secondly for showing us once again, your impeccable workmanship and brilliant engineering skills! I do have a question though, could it be feasible to put a pro charger on a top alcohol dragster or funny car and be competitive? Secondly do you ever see it possibly ever making it into a nitro funny car or top fuel dragster?

[@southjerseysound7340]

It's nice to see procharger coming back. It really does the business and does it realitively affordable because it's not as hard on stuff like other gear.

[@nhra7110]

love the videos!

[@midnighttutor]

This video like all of your others is very informative. Can you suggest a place where I can find some kind of discussion of the theoretical maximum power out of an engine? Obviously a supercharger takes power from the crank to spin up, so what inefficiency in the normal engine is it exploiting? Thank you

[@alexanderhowa9707]

Tim keeps it as real as it can be

[@brutallyhonestmf5578]

Thats almost the size of a rotary engine! It will be interesting to see a weight comparison vs a twin turbo setup

[@1loumellor51]

Its gotta be at least 50lbs lighter I would imagine.

[@carlswenson5403]

youre touching on a great idea, this type of crank mounted setup would be amazing on a rotary

[@WifeBTR123]

@@carlswenson5403 the rotary wouldn't be able to spin it any faster. I believe these guys are spinning them close to the limits. (If that's what you were thinking)

[@carlswenson5403]

@@wudntulike2no32 interesting point as well, hadnt thought about the total mass of the rotating assembly ... im still convinced the theory is sound

[@MrDJAK777]

@@carlswenson5403 rotaries make more exhaust then just about anything they are born to use turbos.

[@user-pd9vm9ts1o]

Wow great channel !

[@Jonathan-L]

Looks good.

[@calvinmauney5669]

Will they allow vortech superchargers to race in nhra class and promod

[@pbmachines972]

Nice but I’m more interested in the fixture table really sweet

[@Justthatguy420]

Gonna be a lot of crying and rules thrown at the guys running this combination after this year is over

[@jwilliams703]

"Turn this thing all this shit spins" -Tim McAmis 2020. Lol this guys one liners need to be T shirts.

[@bubbasmith1410]

That super charger is huge

[@flitetym]

Tim, the technology is quite old, dating back to WW-2, when both allies and axis powers installed “turbo-compound” (mechanical driven and exhaust driven) boost systems on their (mostly) radial engines. And when water-methanol injection was added, you may have heard of terms like “military power”, whereby all power additive systems meant rated power exceeded upwards of 120% - or more - of rated power. The “Pro Charger” system is a direct descendant of the British Sir Frank Whittle centrifugal flow, jet engine design - (without the “hot section”, of course). If I was to wager a guess, the method of introducing compressed air into an engine will eventually gravitate to the “axial” flow introduced by the German, Hans von Ohain, which is a far more efficient method. This would allow for a smaller device while delivering an equal or greater supply of compressed air to the engine. ..... my “2-cents.”

[@aeroflopper]

How many bhp"s do they take to run, as i know super chargers use quite a lot.

[@patrickspringer6534]

I have one on a 1966 Mustang that used to have a twin screw. Granted, it's a fast streetcar, but it's the best upgrade I've ever done. I love them. The car sees about 8 to 10k miles per year with no issues. I'd do it again every time.

[@twinturbocoyoteftw]

Tim is the man. End of story. If you want to go fast and do it safely competitively dial his number!!!!!

[@TZ250FANATIC]

Notice the technical term "we're going to spin the shit out of this impeller". 😂

[@patrickharper9297]

First procharger I saw was in a street race fox body... was beating most everyone in pa Fastest dragster at the Montgomery million dollar bracket race - procharger equipped I’d say they are doing well; and won’t burp and blow the top off your motor

[@SomeTechGuy666]

Engine driven centrifugal superchargers were used on several V12 WWII aircraft engines. It is really easy to design and machine billet turbines for turbochargers. That, together with various gear ratios will let teams develop their own boost profiles

[@Fredmfk2005]

Ten more years and the teleporting drag scene is going to be lit.

[@kalijasin]

That Pro-Charger only work on V8 or bigger Engine?

[@dracula-dead]

Love ya Tim. What would this setup cost you guy's? Just curious. I think I could afford the bolts..maybe.

[@barrymccaulkener3230]

a spec blower makes a lot of sense, the roots stuff was getting silly with the lease costs. Hopefully they move away from the open roots blower and allow a spec screw like TAFC. I love nitrous combos but those guys are eating parts trying to run 5.60's/3.60's. pretty flames though.

[@edwardthayer9386]

I've been running ATIs since 1993. P600B for starters.

[@brandonblack2095]

would that procharger fits on my toyota celica ?

[@PromasterHOF]

Do they make one for a Harley drag bike??

[@UniCrafter]

These have been around for ages. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but these were used on Spitfires during WWII, and in combination with fuel injection allowed them to fly higher and be more manoeuvrable until Germany adopted the technology, though too little too late. It MAY have been the other way around though.

[@bigredracer7848]

66th 👍's up thanks for taking the time for us all

[@uncletom-e4461]

Since it's crank driven, how much parasitic power loss does it suffer from, in comparison to a Root's style blower. I can see where it "could be less", but when you add the gear box, I can see where it "could be more"...

[@onedayiwillmakesomecontent]

I know nothing about engineering, but am guessing that as it seems to be in a straight line to the crank it must be better than a blower up above putting big deflection on the crank. But really I know nothing haha!

[@collinsnjarara3352]

@@onedayiwillmakesomecontent Hey at least you tried.

[@sloanthemechanicl3763]

I find it hilarious The way he explained things 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@sam_s_]

Spin the shit out of this.🤣

[@AmaroqStarwind]

I wonder if a twin-screw blower could be modified to run off of a turbine like it's a turbocharger. Or perhaps a turbocharger hooked up to a small stirling engine, which itself would be powered by the heat of the exhaust manifold of the main engine. Might work as a sort of all-mechanical counterpart to an MGU-H.

[@davidmcnerney3048]

That has to be the biggest ProCharger I've seen.

[@hoost3056]

Question that keeps coming to mind is how it compares to the adjustability of turbos. How about how it loads the nose of the crankshaft vs. a turbo system?

[@josephschaefer9163]

Turbos motors can be adjusted faster using electronic boost controllers, rather than doing a gear change. If they'd use a planetary gear set, it really shouldn't put any side load on the crank nose

[@davearthur8656]

How much h.p does it take to run ?

[@dopesquatch]

So no intercooler? Why not?

[@zzzonezz]

They blow methonol directly into the charge pipe

[@dopesquatch]

@@zzzonezz cool keep it simple

[@deathjunky]

You also have a huge reduction in heat because of the lack of a hot side like you have with turbos.

[@ironfistvail]

NO TIM the hemi is mounted on the supercharger

[@ianirvin3511]

How much is a ball park figure for a pro charger?

[@bromoenook356]

What boost mechanism do they use in funny cars?

[@TFryguy88]

I seen these at PRI. Something like 144mm crazy big

[@jrsgarage3244]

Well ask Pat musi

[@ZacLowing]

3:54 could you attach a smaller procharger that spins up faster first to sooner boost the engine to eliminate a billionth of a second in the quarter?

[@jubjub905]

WCTA Chicago underground sound Itd probably lose its efficientcy at that point.

[@ZacLowing]

@@jubjub905 LOL, I was hoping someone would point out it has two sides, two mini prochargers

[@sepg5084]

@@ZacLowing look up Procharger i1. CVT-driven superchargers. or the supercharger in the road-legal Kawasaki H2 superbike. it has a 2-speed centri supercharger. i bet NHRA officials won't let them in though.

[@slowpoke96Z28]

It’s all in the casing and blade angle and overdrive. they start using words like volute, adiabatic pressures, heat vs pressure, Mach number, compressor surge, etc, and they can make it do anything. ATI, the company that makes procharger branded superchargers, have customers who could giggle at the size of this. They make ones a man can stand in.

[@0778drz110]

Boost is linear on a centrifugal blower with RPM.

[@sheldonpillay7767]

What’s the major differences between a HH Roots Blower vs a Screw Blower ?

[@angreygt3508]

One is basically a pump that beats the air into submission and the other screw compresses the air. Screws are more efficient, but cost more to manufacture. Roots allows for a bypass as the air is basically pushed around the outside of the rotors. Screws don't allow for a bypass, if it's spinning it's making boost.

[@petehahn6599]

I would love to work for that guy

[@THUNDERSTRUCKRACING70]

It's simply a belt driven Turbo. The exhaust turban's has been removed and the motor runs that instead of exhaust Flow.

[@carlswenson5403]

There's really only one way to put it, this is a brilliant engineering solution. One of those things that can't be un-seen. Mounting any sort of impeller straight to the crankshaft makes so much sense ... BELTS?! PIPES?! WE DONT NEED NO STINKING BELTS OR PIPES!!!

[@jakevalent6180]

where does the rad mount up

[@2011metalmaniac]

No rad. These engines have no water jackets.

[@lockedinstreetracing6005]

Yeah I agree I see a lot of people switching to procharged combos my best friend switched and he loves it he is running a f3 136 I think it is idk I know the damm thing is huge a puts out a lot of power they are loud and nasty.

[@psk5746]

1950s BRM v16 had a two-stage centrifugal supercharger ... causes power delivery to be very sudden, not probably an issue for a drag car, but unsuitable for circuit racing. Works very well for constant rpm situations, like aircraft www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/september-2004/61/x-ray-spec-brm-v16

[@johnsnow5239]

That supercharger "montage" is bigger than my cars whole damn drive train!! FML..

[@SomeTechGuy666]

This should have been done 25 years ago. Centrifugal compressors are way more efficient than Roots style. I'm surprised it isn't a compound compressor setup. You can also quick change the impeller to change the boost characteristics.

[@hiteckification]

Is this going to be a thing in 2021 and later? The rulebook for this year still said no unless I've got the wrong one. That would be fantastic if they let centrifugal superchargers in pro mod.

[@kevinm3702]

"All this billet aluminum bullshit" 😂

[@michaelwhittman1956]

If you turn this here all this shit spins. That's probably the single greatest moment in the history of automotive journalism

[@VoodooDewey69]

He is hilariously fumny , you are one of the most down-to-earth mechanic techies that I've ever seen this is totally awesome and you are super bad let me put one of these on my 31 Ford Coupe but unfortunately I can't afford a supercharger centrifugal washing machine unit I'll have to go to Home Depot

[@HazedLiqz]

Hopefully twin screw will join the party next.

[@RustyWells2]

Yes the big blower guys need the screw blower back to keep up! 🦅🇺🇸🦅

[@Wazoo117]

it's YUGE

[@shaunybonny688]

What fuel do those cars use?

[@Timmcamis]

Methonal

[@user-cf1se1kk5x]

Gonna put one in my pickup truck

[@mrschwifty5564]

I miss my ProCharger

[@22Webstar]

Hey, we need to get in the garage together, would love to hang out with you for an hour...day...week...maybe build?

[@JohnW1711stock]

I believe this type of supercharging started on WW2 fighter planes. The P-51 Mustang used a supercharged, Rolls Royce Merlin, V12. The Paxtons of the 1950's were similar design. If we didn't evolve and progress, we all still be racing Model T's. I was never a fan of NOS.

[@willthacker5182]

How long until companies start making crank driven centrifugal supercharges with two speed impellers, just like the v12 merlin engines in the ww2 P51 mustangs?

[@jasonosmond6896]

The multispeed/multistage superchargers were required in fighter aircraft in order to optimize power output at a variety of altitudes. For example, the early P-51s with the Allison V-12s were extremely fast at low altitudes (faster than the Spitfire even), but because they had a single speed single stage supercharger, were uncompetitive at high altitude until the Brits fitted them with the Merlin with its two speed two stage supercharger. Given that drag racers only run at a single altitude and weight matters, I'd assume that multispeed/multistage superchargers won't be making a comeback in that application.

[@johnnolte952]

Why don’t they tidy it up with a planetary gear set and use clutch packs to control boost like an auto trans.

[@ema1671]

This guys profanity is on point.

[@theotherfinnegan9955]

that's one bad ass impeller.

[@Justins00ss]

Definitely agree. I have to street/race toys. One a nitrous Camaro and the other a procharged meth injected gto. My Camaro definitely requires more maintenance and BS than the gto.