Centuries of the North Woods, Part 1: Introduction and The Great Horsepower Race

Centuries of the North Woods is the epic documentary about the Chicago & North Western’s Alco C628 locomotives in iron ore service in Upper Michigan. In Part 1, we’ll look at the Great Horsepower Race that created the C628 - and quickly supplanted it. And we’ll examine the C&NW’s legendary 1973 motive power shortage that brought these 30 locomotives from Norfolk & Western’s coal territory to iron ore country.

[@captainmorgan757]

My older brother worked on the C&NW as a locomotive engineer out of Winona, MN, and an uncle out of Clinton, Iowa, in the car shop.

[@garylarson6386]

I was an electrician on the c&nw at cedar lake shop mpls whan the c628 alcos showed up, such a massive locomotive, I connected one to the load box, the main generator flashed , the main generators were full of coal dust from the ns

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

The NW / CNW C628s had to be the hardest working of all. The CNW really did a great job keeping them in service for as long as they did. RR

[@johnconnolly3634]

I saw them arrive at Cedar Lake yard while playing jr high baseball at the park across the tracks. At least a couple derailed in the yard due to their length and the large number of switches in close proximity. Wow, over 50 years ago...

[@garymartz7587]

Wow! Very nice documentary on Alco locomotives. We still have many Alco's still running on the Western New York & Pennsylvania railroad locally. It's a testament to Alco products. Great video!!

[@Brandinos-trains0719]

Also the Delaware & Lackawanna has some alco centuries, US and Canadian built

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Thanks for the kind words. I often think about what modern day Alcos would look like had Alco survived in the locomotive business. The C636 is comparable in appearance to the modern day GEVOs and 90MACs. RR

[@johnuhelski8613]

I remember this line when the Trainmasters ruled , it was a Mecca for train fans. You guys have done a great job with this series and I wish you had covered the F-M power. Again , GREAT JOB !!

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Thank you! The CNW management and crews were very good to us. Without them, we wouldn't have been able to produce with this level of quality. RR

[@Hobbytrem]

*THE PRODUCTION OF THIS VIDEO IS MORE VALUABLE THAN A GOLD MINE.* 🎉🏆🥇

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Thank you very much! One of these days I'm going to put a short video together describing all the behind-the-scenes things we did to produce "Centuries" and "Extra 6706 West". It was a labor of love, but it truly was a lot of work. RR

[@Hobbytrem]

@@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq WOOOOOW! I will divulge your channel on my blog, Facebook and Instagram.

[@Hobbytrem]

Hobby Trem

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

@@Hobbytrem Thank you! We appreciate the help in our quest for 1000 subscribers. If we can make that milestone, we're going to release all of our documentaries. The first one being the companion program to Centuries titled "Extra 6706 West". RR

[@EdWichman]

Terrific, well done!!! I remember vividly these locomotives, being a "gandy dancer" at Kenosha and Racine WI back in the mid 70's. We called them the "rock-crushers"!!! It was a handsome locomotive. . . smooth lines, clean lines, and that high hood put it over the top! Not to mention that awesome sound. . . Thanks fellas for a great video, EA Wichman

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

You're very welcome. Not sure if you caught the quote from the Norfolk and Western Foreman who was happy to see the N&W put the C628s into storage because "It was the only way to keep them off the ties." That is pretty interesting as CNW didn't seem to have much trouble keeping them on the rail. RR

[@0fficialdregs]

I recently purchased two N scale C628 locomotives as they're among some of my favorites. Gonna add them to my fictional railroad's history and lore.

[@ShawnCalay-hi6gy]

Always looking for my father in these videos, I remember back in the day my dad had a awesome friend that worked proviso to green bay CJ Riley...I'm sure he is retired by now.

[@WVRailroadPapa]

Great video on the big Alcos. I photographed several of them when the N&W owned them. They were quite impressive.

[@brentmiller3951]

SP will always be my favorite my dad worked for them and they were a big part of my childhood and the small logging town I grew up in on the Oregon coast

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

The SP C628s (and 95% of their other power) were exceptionally cool units with their oscillating headlight packages! RR

[@brentmiller3951]

@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq the ocilating head light is forever in my memory. I grew up on the Oregon coast and one of my dad's jobs was to run in front of the trains from coos bay to Florence opening 3 trestles .The times I seen those lights through the fog in early morning will never be forgotten. I also rode my dirt bikes in the log yards so I definitely love all there power. I think my bias comes from my first ride in an engine from Florence back to coos bay at 5 was a EMD

[@joshjones3408]

The alligators look cool i thank they look like a 1949 labagena panel wagon only if it was sapphire blue.... great video 👍👍👍

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Thank you! The "Gators" were incredible units. I have slides of some of them still in blue, but they were all painted in some form of LS&I paint when we started shooting video. RR

[@joshjones3408]

@@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq Iv never seen one before an they are very mechanical looking...I bet they look good in blue thanks for info 👍👍👍👍

[@petertalso5304]

I had an uncle who was a safety inspector for the iron mines in western Michigan and the cuyuna range in Ramsay

[@kenharbin3440]

I grew up along the Lehigh Valley, their 628s were painted black and white, we called them Snowbirds, we loved them. Conversely the MoW crews called them "rail rippers" and hated them.

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

There is some footage of the Lehigh Valley Snowbirds in The Great Horsepower Race section. It is great that you got to see them run. The Norfolk and Western didn't care for the C628s and how they were rough on the track. It is interesting that C&NW didn't seem to have any track related issues with them. RR

[@bakerboat4572]

@@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq The reason why the CNW didn't have that much of an issue is almost certainly because the ore lines had heavy rail and sturdy sub grades. Most rail trackage in the late 20th century did not have even one of those, and it didn't help that deferred maintenance was so common.

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

@@bakerboat4572 That is good information. I was in the ore territory in 1976 and despite some weeds, the trackage was in surprisingly good condition for CNW track in the 70s. The taconite ballast seemed to work well. RR

[@petertalso5304]

Our family spent summers in Bessemer Michigan. While they played cards, I would be train watching

[@Kochiha]

Great series, and nice little cameo from IRM at 5:48.

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Thank you! Yes indeed, those two Geeps at IRM are exquisitely rare units. RR

[@richwhitehead5209]

excellent video. as much as i enjoy watching railroad footage, its so much more interesting to have some narration. Well Done

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Thank you. We like these types of programs too and we've discovered that a huge amount of people prefer some narration and information along with the video. RR

[@ShawnCalay-hi6gy]

I modeled the Aussie units when I got back into model railroading in 2005....was a fun one, was gonna continue on till I started modeling South America...

[@alcosrarities]

Really cool stuff!

[@gailyncookMilwRR]

Great information and excellent videos!

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Thank you. We're very happy that you enjoyed it. RR

[@dennisyoung4631]

Alco has Soot, and cannot Wait!

[@alcopower5710]

Outstanding content

[@paulquick8806]

Great video reminds me of the Catskill area of the D and H Railroad

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

The D&H would have been an excellent road to cover. Unfortunately, distance from the home base made that impractical. RR

[@paulquick8806]

@@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq I understand 👍 I'm just laughing at myself because I couldn't spell the D&H properly 😅

[@danielkennedy1524]

Outstanding video! great history!

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Thank you! We had a great time producing this program. It was a massive undertaking to do it right, but I think we nailed it. RR

[@roberthunerberg1509]

Great stuff keep up the good work!

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Thank you, Rob. You will be seeing more program releases very soon. RR

[@bnsf8610]

Great video and info :)

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Thank you!

[@GMCGUY-]

Great video I just subscribed to your channel here to stay

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Thank you for taking the time to subscribe. I'm glad you're here to stay, because we have more documentaries in the same style as Centuries that we will be releasing soon! RR

[@GMCGUY-]

​@@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lqI'm definitely going to tell a lot of my other railfanning friends about this channel they will love these older documentaries try to do something maybe on the old Boston and Maine Guilford AKA pam am railways now owned by CSX but now CSX will fix the track up they also have Amtrak that is also on the old Pan Am railways line. I am from the Northeast and out of all my years Amtrak has never been on any Pam am railways line ever not until CSX bought it and redid the entire track connecting to the New England Central mainline and that line connects in Vermont right on the border with Massachusetts. Before Amtrak used New England Central ever since I was a kid then just a year ago they have been using Pan Am railways lines now and they built the new railway station also engineers from Amtrak say it's very odd doing these speeds on this line because the line was intended for 20 mph all the whole line was rated for 20 mph because of the track condition because Pam and railways was too cheap to fix it all CSX bought it they dug up everything and redid the whole thing. Freight trains are doing 50 miles an hour and a couple of the Pan Am railways employees came on to CSX and they also said it's very strange running a freight train on these lines going 45-50 mph one of the engineers said he was running this train maybe three or four times a year and it was only 20 miles an hour the whole time he said it took forever now that CSX bought it he said it takes half the time now to get to our destination all the way in Maine. CSX takes care their track

[@gebass6479]

I have this video.Since mid 90's

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Keep it safe. It could be worth a million dollars some day! RR

[@gtptube]

Best video ever

[@SimonTog]

Cool video :)

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Thank you. There is a lot more cool stuff to come! RR

[@danielkennedy1524]

Cand NW a great railroad as well! The 400, Bi level peninsular/Flambeau! and employee owned!

[@GMCGUY-]

Are there any alco still running in the United States as of 2023 August?

[@ryansansom6901]

Yes, there are some railroads that still have ALCO/MLW locomotives. Sadly quite a few ALCO/MLW diesel locomotive models have all entirely been scrapped,or very few survive. Most ALCO locomotives are operating in the Northeast.

[@25mfd]

i hired on with CNW back in 1993... i remember after the UP took over and they STUPIDLY sold the ore docks... holy crap what a flood of guys come swarming adams, janesville and milwaukee exercising their seniority... what a mess that was

[@ericsimmons7716]

Tyco Steel Hauler (1981)

[@ShawnCalay-hi6gy]

I modeled 6708 and 6711....I think there was another, maybe 6721....it fried my dad he was never a fan but I always liked that bright yellow and large bright green numbers.

[@RailPreserver2K]

Any of the engines in the program still exist or preserved ?

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Unfortunately, they have all been scrapped. There were rumors of some of them going to Mexico, but that never happened. It's a shame too because they were the only high-hood C628s built. Would have been nice if one of them made it to a museum. RR

[@AndrewNelson-l6i]

That turnout at Empire Junction at the beginning of this segment was not powered. What often happened is either a C&NW load out of Empire or an LS&I Tilden load would have to stop and line it for their correct route. What it translated into was having to start the train from a dead stop on a grade. Because of the LS&I's grade east of there up to Eagle Mills Junction and Queens Siding, those LS&I Alcos and GEs worked their guts out between those two spots. C&NW trains had a little easier time of it heading east to Partridge Junction down through Goose Lake Inlet.

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Good point! In the opening scene, you can hear the dynamic brakes wound up tight just in case they needed to stop for the switch. Later on in the program, there is a LS&I runby with Gators at the same location. You can see them pour on the power and engulf the cameraman in smoke! RR

[@timothywalsh2955]

I'll never forget that Chicago Northwestern crewman that stopped at Cy's Amoco that one summer to gas up the track inspection truck, when I asked him " How's workin' on the railroad these days?" His answer was "it would be great if government took us over"....unions, such a hose-job.

[@Chris-eh4cc]

I think the railroads are doing just fine with their high paying union jobs these days.

[@jonathanng2390]

Alco in a nutshell: Too little too late. They were victims of their RS3 success.

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

I agree. If Alco could have hung on another couple of years, we would be seeing C936 ACs today. RR

[@nicholasmedovich8691]

@@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lqc936?? Sound like a cetelogued model

[@trainman1ish]

What does "ESGBA" mean??

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

ESGBA is a train symbol. It stands for Escanaba Green Bay Manifest. The ESGBA section of the program explains the significance of this train and the role it played in the operation of the CNW C628s. RR

[@johnhabeck6153]

What brought about the '73 CNW power shortage ?

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

That is an excellent question! Neal Payton, an East End Productions Advisor and Production Assistant provided this information... "The C&NW had a pretty weak fleet of power and when the Employee-Owned thing started, they were so happy being divorced from Cutty Sark and Fruit of the Loom, that they started going after traffic from the Rock Island and Milwaukee Road. Iron Ore was moving all rail, paper was still a big deal, and there just weren't enough second-generation high horsepower units." RR NP

[@johnhabeck6153]

Thanks ! Excellent and informative video, keep up the good work !

[@peterniemira9536]

It's great that none of the freight cars have graffiti

[@ericsimmons7716]

TYCO C628 (Alco Super 630)

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Is that the one with the EMD fan on the roof behind the cab?

[@ericsimmons7716]

No, but same body frame.

[@modelrailpreservation]

@@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq The ALCO with the EMD fan was actually made by Roco of Austria, sold under the AHM name in the USA, but it was an ALCO C-424. I actually have one of those. Tyco made ALCO C-430s and C-628 or C-630 types. I've heard the detailing is ambigious and it can stand in for either. Don't know for sure though. The Tyco C-630 came with a high nose even. I have two letter for the ICG, which did order them in real life, but was unable to pay for them so never took delivery.

[@ericsimmons7716]

@@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq The only difference I notice is the trucks. Tyco once made prototypical trucks until PowerTorque trucks was released. You see them on 630's, gg1 & e7's. Tyco use other railroad names which they didn't order 630's in real life. ICG is the only one order in real life that comes in the number 1102 which used in all Tyco 630's. The ICG is a low nose unit but Tyco being "politically correct" in its design, it's a toy train.

[@ShawnCalay-hi6gy]

@@modelrailpreservation I actually have 3 of those C424s I got at a antique store....rebuilt the rear of the cab, and redetailing them....using K&S brass I'm building new underframes....ppw motors and athearn gearing....it's being done on a bet....take nothing and make something....they will go to a friend's GBW railway when completed....

[@RobertMiller-w5v]

CNW high hood locomotives SD9

[@Greatdome99]

'Baby Train Masters,' not 'Junior Trainmasters.'

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

"Baby Train Masters" were H16-44s, "Junior Train Masters" were H16-66s.

[@James-j4l2y]

The Century series was a foundation for many more GE success stories.

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Indeed, they were. There are many criticisms of GE's mechanical systems such as the FDL prime mover, but the GE electrical systems were pretty much bullet proof. The one exception being the foray into aluminum wiring with the XR (Extra Reliable) U30Cs. As for the FDL engine, they were extremely reliable if they got that extra bit of maintenance they required. Unfortunately, during the "U Boat" (late 60s, through the 70s) era, they seldom got the maintenance they required which resulted in many road failures. RR

[@davidcarrington2404]

Are any of these locos still running? Or maybe go to railroad museum

[@EastEndProductionsArchiv-lm3lq]

Unfortunately, all the former CNW C628s have been scrapped. Also, I am unaware of any C628 that was preserved in any museums. Hope I'm wrong about that. RR