The KOBALI/VAADWAUR Dilemma | KOBALI Prime Day Three STOSS

[@captainzac24]

4:20 "it seems my team has become separated" *glances at health read out* showing them unconscious "I'm sure they'll be along soon" *T'Met hastily replicates a new pair of officers*

[@IronWarhorsesFun]

BEGUN THE CLONE UNDEAD WARS HAVE!

[@Torlonus]

I'd argue helping them in a war would be breaking the prime directive even more. I can agree that when they found this place and used the bodies of those who died it at least understandable. However now they have Vaddwaur civilians in stasis pods and the Kobali are refusing to release them, instead waiting for them to die so their bodies can be used. Cultural differences aside they are objectively keeping Vaadwaur prisoners and are waiting for them to die "naturally" so their bodies can be used. "I didn't kill them, I just watched them bleed out and then took all their stuff" basically the Kobali's argument at this point. They are on a very slippery slope, let's just hope they don't decided to speed up the rate at which pods are failing.

[@IronWarhorsesFun]

i can;t wait for the Okay what of they woke from stasis for some reason? WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM?

[@occultatumquaestio5226]

11:30 ; Ah yes the "Prime Directive", per usual in theory it is a noble thought but pragmatically can be quite stupid at times, especially since the Kobali are a warp-capable civilization AND the U.F.P. is at war. Plus in many regards depending on which interpretation of that directive one is using it is already being broken by helping the Kobali in the first place. However that is part of this dilemma. This reminds me a little of an episode in TOS.

[@IronWarhorsesFun]

I love that MACO officer is literally just a Federation Drone. not even giving an opinion, just the party line.

[@laahocsm0019]

Really sympathising with the Vaadwar civilians here. The fact that their civilians makes them far less guilty for the actions of their goverment then the actual leaders and military. There basically a bunch of innocent people who are stuck in a state of unconsciousness slowly dying and put into a temple of a foreign culture who, instead of helping them wait for them to slowly die and reuse their corpses without consent. I wonder if any children were in those pods. It's honestly pretty messed up.

[@IronWarhorsesFun]

i don't care who you are. how do you think our people IRL would react to this being done by another country no matter how desperate???

[@shmee123ful]

I wonder how the Klingons will feel about the cabali practices after all, they don't seem to care about what happens to their fallen's bodys after they died as far as their concerned the spirit and soul is a different from the meat left behind. but they could see it as rubbing a warrior of their honourable death that its a prevision of life.

[@singletona082]

'Do not spout about Prime Directive here. Otherwise if we wanted to strictly follow it. We would leave the kobali to the 'natural evolution' of what their actions have wrought. . . . Plus the Prime Directive only applies to pre-warp civilizations.' Frankly if part of the acclimation process involved trying to bring closure to that person's former life and record what memories and knowledge they have, both personal and academic to give to their former people I could be more accepting of the Kobali. As is their practice of trying to erase and destroy all trace of who people were leaves me feeling they are nothing better than ghouls seeking to steal the corpses of loved ones to swell their number. They could have done something grand and wonderful and as a key facet of their species be the mediating bridge between cultures instead of... THIS. I say we return the still viable cryopods to the Vaudwar. Even though we are at war with them these are hostages held by people loitering around waiting for them to die in their sleep. If we were serious about helping the kobali we would take volunteers or stretch it a bit to include anyone who's donated their bodies to the federation to give the Kobali what they need to propagate their species. As is the kobali wish to erase everything a person was while spouting on about 'second chance at life.' They're no different than the Borg, or would you want to argue the borg have a right to forcefully assimilate unwilling species 'as it's their way of replenishing their numbers culturally.' Suddenly not so muddy are the waters... are they? As a personal note: I love your combat armoring.

[@nbmoleminer5051]

I almost completely agree but most of the individuals that make up this Abomination/Shade of a dead race/culture though are just very horrifically misguided victims.

[@occultatumquaestio5226]

5:34 ; Speaking of, just to add a bit of personal STO head canon, I believe the lock door on the other side of the Captain's quarter has a bathroom.

[@freezetasticvoyage19]

Didn't the vaadwaar leader already tell us that the vaadwaar survivors were being turned into kobali?

[@huntrovherobrin]

Yes, but he's not exactly trustworthy. Gaul is notoriously deceptive, treacherous, and dishonest.

[@CertifiablyIngame]

Yeah, and that mission is set before this one in the game. I think it would make so much more sense if that happened after the Kobali missions, but then you would have been waging full on war with the Vaadwaur without attempting diplomacy first so... *shrugs

[@SampoPaalanen]

@@CertifiablyIngame Personally it makes if Illid... I mean Gaul meets you before Kobali Prime, since you're suppose to side with the Kobali in this conflict so seeing that Gaul isn't exactly trustworthy (or sane for that matter) first makes you intentionally more willing to listen and in theory forgive the Kobali since at least they were willing to talk to us, while Gaul really just wanted to be his slaves and cannon fodder. Also having us think Gaul is a total nutcase who seek any excuse to see the galaxy burn helps with a later part of this storyline which I won't spoil here.

[@thomasjoychild4962]

It's the seeing-potential-failure-and-deliberately-not-fixing-it that does it for me. That and doing it without consent, but the pretending killing-by-inaction is okay. And the tracking down and gaslighting people whose original minds aren't entirely erased and don't want to live in Kobali society. At least they acknowledge the first two are bad by the end of the arc and start making changes, but the third makes my skin crawl still.

[@cytorakdemon]

"The Prime Directive stats we can't interfere in the affairs of Kobali culture." Prime Directive also states Starfleet can't interfere in internal affairs, so why aren't we sitting back and watching the Vaadwaur glass Kobali Prime and get their people back?

[@valor1omega]

I agree, the zombies are in the wrong and SF should not be taking a side.

[@andrewgilbertson5672]

The idea that this is a Prime Directive issues doesn't seem to be valid. The Kobali are holding hostages; releasing them is not interfering in the natural development of their culture unless Starfleet understands that development to include holding other sentient species captive for the purposes OF their culture (which numerous episodes like Allegience, Where Silence Has Lease, I, Mudd, etc. would seem to indicate they don't). If the Federation stands behind an act of kidnapping in order to farm another sentient race for whatever this race needs, I don't see how they'd justify standing against the Borg; by this logic, they're just denying the Borg the drone-fodder that's needed for the natural evolution of their culture. :eyeroll: I don't see this as a dilemma. Give the Vaadwaur back their still-alive civilian hostages. Case-closed.

[@singletona082]

Same. It wont' stop the war, but we could fill the Kobali 'manpower dilimah' by having volunteers donate their boides on death. Plus all those Vaudwar outside seem quite willing to die. there you go, fresh supplies of willing donars supplied by Gaul.

[@nbmoleminer5051]

And those who were turned who want to go back to their people.

[@ptonpc]

With all the Vaadwaar dead soldiers, there shouldn't be any shortage of new Kobali.

[@nineballmk2]

yeeep just get a dump truck and start loading em up!

[@captainzac24]

I really hate the kobali they act like they have the right to keep people just because they revived them. They say "who wouldn't want a second chance at life" maybe people who know their bodies will be used to fight their own species! They say "oh we have to do it there's no other way" but don't seem to have even tried another way.

[@singletona082]

What they offer isn't a chance at life. They erase everything you were to make another Kobali. Effectively they are little different than the borg.

[@nbmoleminer5051]

@@singletona082 Aye they sometimes don't completely succeed though.

[@mrXOwarrior]

I wonder why Ric acts so "surprised" at the reveal. Gaul and the Vaadwar told us what was going on like 5 videos ago. We are watching too my man, we already knew.

[@fingerboxes]

Because the Vaadwaur have a habit of lying all the time.

[@skagerakk009]

Great Video as always! Love these Lore/Story driven videos about STO! One Question: Do you plan to ever explore the Multi-Player aspect of the game? (Especially the Task Force Operations, which tie in with the Missions) If so, is there a way to help you out/participate? (Just curious that's all ;D) *Keep up the good work!*

[@golgarisoul]

I thought the Prime Directive didn't apply to aliens that had space travel?

[@jasonskeans3327]

It does

[@Qardo]

Captain. Is that a standard issue phaser?

[@damenwhelan3236]

I've been looking forward to this part the most!!

[@internetzenmaster8952]

You know, it's stuff like what the Kobali did to the Vaadwaur that really sets off my inner 40k Commissar "kill all xenos" response. Seriously, the Vaadwaur might be militaristic, disingenuous bellends (or at least Gaul is) but what the Kobali are doing to the Vaadwaur civilians who can't even object to what's happening to them (or their corpses) that is _beyond_ reprehensible.

[@singletona082]

Purge them in cleansing fire. Let the Emperor sort them out.

[@dongadson1099]

That's why all Kobali and Borg need to be wiped out.

[@valor1omega]

@@dongadson1099 The crystal spiders need to be wiped out as well.

[@mb2000]

3:57 Why did the Kobali make a temple out of the back end of a Galor class warship? 11:04 why does Dralia need the breathing apparatus? Didn’t DS9 show us that Benzites didn’t need them anymore (Hoya, “The Ship”)?

[@singletona082]

Maybe Dralia prefers something more robust in a place of war?

[@thomasjoychild4962]

It's a hefty amount of genetic therapy to no longer need them, IIRC, not everyone chooses to get it and probably not everyone CAN get it.

[@thepoetoffall7820]

12:22 is that a Tribble?

[@dreamyrhodes]

Yes your team members will use Tribbles when you give them one. They give various buffs on your team members.

[@BigJwlz]

07:05 The voice acting for M'hetya is pretty unconvincing.

[@MBF78]

So the dilemma is, do we side with the genocidal maniacs or with the necromancers?

[@andrewgilbertson5672]

Would saying "Release the Vaadwaur civilians to the Vaadwaur, and assuming they continue to fight you, we will continue to defend you" be the best option? The Kobali would no longer be doing something you need to side *against*, and any valid reason the Vaadwaur would have to attack that you might need to side *with* would be removed.

[@Kitsula]

It's not all that cut and dry the Kobali are also occupying a Vaadwaur colony world that was already inhabited (albeit by colonists in stasis tubes). They have a formal and fairly reasonable claim on the world.

[@cytorakdemon]

"We would like our civilians to not be left to die to be mutated into an alien race against their will." Vs. "But our culture tho..." Quite the dilemma.

[@TrensGemini]

Star Trek is full of this kind of dilemma [like in the real worlds]. Its remind me of episode "Extinction" from Star Trek: Enterprise.

[@Werezilla]

This situation with the Kobali and Vaddwaur reminds me of Star Trek Insurrection. Mainly how this is how to do a proper moral dilemma unlike how the film handled its conflict.

[@AdamantLightLP]

I find it interesting that how half the comments say something like "this isn't a moral dilemma!" And the proceed to disagree with each other making it into one. It's is a tough call. Returning the stasis pods means that you're simply helping a warmongering enemy, while leaving them is just as bad.

[@valor1omega]

So by helping the zombies we are breaking the prime directive. Funny Starfleet wouldn't help the Remans(sp) in their war against the Tal-shar because it would be "influencing" blah, blah. Yet no problem helping zombies who are holding another race's people as resources for production? I wouldn't help them after learning that and would request for my ship and I to be sent elsewhere. After all can you trust someone with the aid of a bunch of zombies that they hate?

[@TymersRealm]

And... We get into the crux of the mess that is Kobali Prime. Even if those in stasis were returned, Gaul wouldn't care. His "burn everything down so we can rebuild" (and isn't that a ongoing bad guy mindset in STO...) view wouldn't lead to a peaceful end of the conflict. Then arcs two & three are just as murky and messy as well...

[@valor1omega]

Doesn't matter, the zombies have no right to do what they are doing. If I was the kdf/SF I would say "give back their people or you are on your own" they would give the people back because they know they don't stand a chance against them otherwise.

[@skywise001]

Makes a bunch of false equivalences "This is a moral delema indeed." No, no it isnt, not at all. Star Trek just wants you to think it is.

[@HitodamaKyrie]

Eh, I wouldn't think a question like this ceases to be a moral dilemma just because you have a strong opinion on the matter.

[@shmee123ful]

is that rifle your using a fing cross bow?

[@captainzac24]

It's a Kobali weapon you get it from missions

[@dreadedpixel9022]

What's that ground weapon hales using?

[@asaenvolk]

Why don't the Kabali just make clone bodies (not just one clone source, you could use millions) they could then use to make more Kabali as they wanted.

[@nbmoleminer5051]

Aye exactly what they do is abhorrent on so many levels.

[@Phil-D83]

Would probably side with vadwar here

[@valor1omega]

As would I

[@gorillazzilla]

Could a Kobali kyn'steya from a Dalek?

[@dreadedpixel9022]

What's that energy crossbow your using?

[@drkFenix9]

Chewbacca is a huge fan of Star Trek shows (don't tell Han). And so, he gave them the specs to make a Wookie bowcaster. :D

[@robos3809]

Are they the vadwali

[@spaceninja7687]

Who could have seen that the Kobali were keeping Vaadwaur stiffs to make purple babies with? Everyone!

[@gorillazzilla]

The kobali looks like they committed war crimes too.

[@renatocarlassare3437]

Interesting

[@tyreecebaker6600]

👍

[@srptr_w]

Where are your shotgun rifle u picked at uh romulan? 😂😂😂

[@cmdrtianyilin8107]

It's Kobali Polaron Split Beam rifle.

[@Noodledorf]

I hated Kim in this story, I really did, he just forced you to agree with him. No nuance, just get that moral hammer, no disagreements. I honestly just kept saying shut up Kim.

[@Noodledorf]

I actually had no trouble with what the Kobali is doing, or was doing. Prove to me that it's ethically wrong, which, be honest, is not that easy. Yes you can disagree with morally, but not ethically.

[@ditzy_neko3362]

11:14 insert Karen.

[@lordalpharius5928]

With the vaadwa war crimes, they deserve exterminatus and extinction, the kobali have the just cause. Im basing what the majority of the quadrant opinion, not just starfleet Prime Directive Or exterminate the rebellious militant faction and revive the civilian and relocate them to a different quadrant as a UFP protective species!

[@valor1omega]

The zombies are in the wrong, you cannot blame the civilans for the military actions. The zombies should not be helped, they deserve to be wiped out.