Cessationist: A Critical Evaluation of This Documentary

[@ravikeller9626]

Reformed Baptist here. Absolutely loved this! I’ve been under the conviction that these gifts are indeed still available today. The section on church history was particularly eye opening to me. Thanks Gavin!

[@luxunumbracrj4311]

As someone raised Cessationist but experienced dreams, visions, knowledge, and direct words from God, I legitimately believed I was mentally ill. Thank you for this, God bless you 🙏

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

It is wonderful when we receive supernatual manifestations. Not everyone gets that, some walk in hard faith, not getting these confirmations. I'm sorry that you were told, or thought there was something wrong w/ you when God gifted you like he did w/ extra blessings to confirm your faith.

[@luxunumbracrj4311]

@@saintejeannedarc9460 Thank you. I truly believe God sent me so much to encourage and affirm my faith in Him. It's a hard thing to go against what you're raised in, or even to answer why I get these gifts but not others, and it's pulled me deeper in love with God.

[@user-ee2vt7yi3m]

I tend to believe mental illness exists alongsides signs from god being real, but if the dreams, visions, knowledge, and direct words from god are more or less affirmed by real events, then it's quite possible you got prophecy or signs

[@Draezeth]

As someone who has had the immense honor of having the Lord heal someone through me twice, I could never be a cessationist.

[@michellecheriekjv4115]

God did that thru me too. Starting at 4 yrs old. Except l never thought l was mentally ill...l always knew it was God. He is absolutely Wonderful. But l will tell you it did lead me to believe l was saved when l wasn't. I wasn't Born Again into God's Kingdom until Valentine's Day 2019 in which God birthed me into His Kingdom and opened up the Scriptures to my understanding. But looking back over my whole life...l see His hand all over my life. God is incredible...and He is everywhere and always at work. No way could l ever be a cessationist...but there's a lot of demonic deception out there. Martin Lyoyd Jones wrote a great book "The Sovereign Spirit: Discerning His Gifts." The Spirit moves when He wants, not when we want him to. God Bless. 📖🌷💥

[@btm96]

I ran into an old friend at a bar who was going through a sort of physical pain that I won't mention the specifics of. She is an atheist. I asked her if I could pray for her healing, in which she obliged, and after the prayer she said that all of her pain was gone. She went to the bathroom to check the source of the pain - which had a visible marker - and in her own words, the affliction had "disappeared." So, not only did the pain disappear, but so did the physical marker that caused the pain. There are witnesses who can attest to this.

[@raphaelfeneje486]

Sadly these guys have limited God. We see this happening. They've never been to missions

[@john318john]

@btm96 I noticed you said everything else but you never mentioned if the lady gave her life to Christ. What good is it to be healed on this earth and spend eternity in hell. Wow you have no concept of why Christ died on the cross. Salvation is the most important gift anyone could ever have.

[@raphaelfeneje486]

@@john318john And you're assuming he didn't share the gospel, or that she wasn't convinced. You guys are just funny

[@john318john]

@@raphaelfeneje486 Sharing the gospel is the most important information not that she was healed. Do you not understand that. The angels in heaven rejoice when someone comes to Christ. Please read your Bible.

[@raphaelfeneje486]

@@john318john It seems to me that you don't understand anything. Are you assuming he didn't share the gospel or he told you?? That's the question

[@paulthiele3102]

Lutheran continuationist here (learnt the hard way) - with you 100!!

[@RuslanKD]

Very happy to learn you’re a continuationist and grateful you made this video.

[@RevDavidReyes]

Yo!

[@ProphetGreg94]

But I think he has a seat belt on. LOL

[@eugenenunn4900]

RUSLAN!!! Love your channel man haha

[@christsavesreadromans1096]

Pray the rosary :)

[@glassworks4850]

​​​@@christsavesreadromans1096 and you need to repent of your false belief. Because it would be ironic if the person to whom you direct your prayers, are in heaven (Mary), and yet you will be in hell for your idolatry.

[@BrandonCSullivan]

Presbyterian continuationist here: Dr. Ortlund, thank you very much for your response. It was respectful, balanced, and insightful.

[@antenglish1]

Same here, bro. Good to meet another.

[@KevinAlawine]

I too am a Presbyterian continuationist

[@antenglish1]

@@KevinAlawine love it man. We’re like the Presby Continuationist Avengers 😂

[@carlofortunato333]

Thank you so much Gavin! Your ministry has been such a blessing.

[@lopa5881]

same!!!🎉

[@YourFunkiness]

Charismatic here. I appreciate you speaking the truth. Having experienced the stuff the Bible leads me to expect, I'm glad to see this video.

[@rickydettmer2003]

Didn’t know Dr. Ortlund is a continuationist. Love it🙏

[@robertj5208]

Was evident in his discussion of the Asbury Revival

[@Rubberglass]

If a layperson picks up the scriptures on their own for the first time, there is no way they would come away thinking the gifts ceased. They would need to be indoctrinated to the idea.

[@morghe321]

​@Rubberglass very good point. This is a good principle to follow. Just look at what the Bible says without any outside input.

[@davidjanbaz7728]

I see the decline of some of these gifts but I can't say they have completely ended: the over emphasis on Tongues as a litmus test for being Saved or having the Holy Spirit is an abuse. That's coming from my Cessationist background in a Conservative Baptist church and Biola University.

[@ghostapostle7225]

@@Rubberglass Cessationist exists because continualism is hard to be harmonized with the idea of Church's "great apostasy" and that protestantism was somehow necessary to recover the "true" Church.

[@robertdelisle7309]

This was a strong rebuttal. Thank you. I was edified by it.

[@arianarubytemple6008]

I wish every cessationist would watch this video. Wonderful video done in such a calm, balanced and loving manner❤

[@rexlion4510]

The Cessationist documentary came far too late to have any chance of persuading me. My wife and I have prayed for people to be healed and have seen them quickly, miraculously healed by God. All glory to God, for we were only His obedient instruments. One time I prayed for a man who had just been hit by a vehicle at about 30 mph, cratering the windshield with his head. I prayed for him in Jesus' name while he moaned in pain and was unresponsive to questions, and within 30 seconds he stood up and said he was okay other than some minor leg pain (the leg hit the bumper). They took him to the hospital, confirmed he was okay, gave him Tylenol for his leg and sent him home.

[@stephenwright4973]

Would you say that Cessationists, who have never experienced such remarkable events, are devoid of the Spirit? In other words, if I have never seen a miraculous answer to prayer or any other "sign of the Spirit" (aside from conviction of the truth of the Scriptures), do I lack the Spirit of Christ?

[@rexlion4510]

@@stephenwright4973 No, because everyone is different and has different spiritual gifts. However, the commonality is that every born-again (spiritually regenerated) disciple of Christ does have the indwelling Holy Spirit, who seeks to lead, guide, and enable us to do the things God planned (before creation) for us to do. The Holy Spirit also witnesses to our spirits that we are children of God and heirs of eternal life with Him. Every Christian therefore should learn to hear the quiet 'voice' of the Holy Spirit and should learn how to be led by the Spirit. If we are not conscious of Him, how can we be led by Him? How can we act in cooperation with the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians, Chapters12 through 14) if we do not perceive His immediate guidance? So anyone who does not perceive the Spirit who indwells him (I'm writing in general terms) should: first consider whether he has truly trusted wholeheartedly in Christ's redemption as full payment for his debt of sin, second he should read and study the Scriptures which teach about the Holy Spirit, third he should pray and ask God to fill him with wisdom and knowledge from the Holy Spirit, and fourth he should expect to hear from the Spirit (because prayer isn't just talking to God, it's two-way communication).

[@BibleTalk419]

​@@stephenwright4973Hope i can answer your question. What I've realized is that God reveals his presence differently to every seeker. Hebrews 11 says he rewards those who seek him. In my case God had revealed things to me in dreams and other ways but i don't expect others to rely on dreams. Dreams can come from other spirits besides God. But I've seen miraculous dreams that predicted the future. There are plenty of other ways i have drawn near to God. If you draw near to God he will draw near to you and give you rhe assurance you need in some way. But don't worry as if God will reveal himself in the exact same way to everybody.

[@sarahd5341]

Cessationists believe God heals today and uses prayer to do it. Do you believe you have the “gift of healing” or did God just answer your prayer? We absolutely do not see the gifts active today as we read about in them in the NT. They were fading even in Paul’s day.

[@alstroemeria227again4]

But that is not the same as having the gift of miracles! You prayed and God answered your prayer.

[@AlbertaGail]

Good to hear the arguments laid out thoughtfully and clearly. Thanks Gavin

[@rebeccacovert8052]

Thank you, Dr. Ortlund! I too am so glad to hear you are a continuationist, although I strongly suspected it. Thank you for your ministry and your commitment to teach the Truth! This video was so helpful, and I’m sharing it on my social media sites! God bless you! And we look forward to your videos in 2024!

[@john318john]

Please find my response to Dr. Ortlund. He does not understand what the Cessionists were unpacking in the video. The Cessionists do not believe God doesn't heal people through prayer and fasting or he doesn't perform miracles today. They believe the charlatans on TV who say they have the power of healing is what they dealt with in the video. I know a renown Cessesionists whose child had a brain tumor and his family prayed and fast for his healing and God healed him.

[@jobbing7642]

Amen! I am a reformed pastor who is a continuationist. Thank you for this video!

[@robusc4940]

2 The 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, Beware of 'so called' modern day gifts & wonders.

[@raphaelfeneje486]

​@@robusc4940 There's no biblical basis for your cessationism. Quote verses that says the gifts will cease??

[@youcatastrophe6434]

@@robusc4940 Now do the Bible! People - including Satan himself when tempting Christ - misuse, misquote, abuse, and lie about scripture all the time. Doesn’t mean scripture isn’t valid. Same thing applies to the work of the Spirit and the Gifts.

[@robusc4940]

@@youcatastrophe6434 Paul taught the gifts would cease as his did, your problem if you reject what Christ THROUGH Paul taught that applies to us now

[@robusc4940]

​@@raphaelfeneje486 No Biblical basis ? Let's start with tongues ABUSE 1 Cor 14 WHOLE chapter Paul teaches about tongues use/ABUSE. Want to watch a balanced teaching about tongues ABUSE ? Ps Alex Kurz Shorewood BIBLE Church - tongues ABUSE kzbin.info/www/bejne/mperc6J3isl4rdU Your choice to push pride aside and watch or let pride rule and don't.

[@jabberwocky8021]

OK, that was utterly superb! I've wrestled with this issue. I have listened to the arguments of the Cessationists but they never coincided with my own experience, to say nothing of my reading of Scripture. I have scratched my head over the matter a lot. So, thank you so much. and God Bless. You have a new subscriber and glad of it.

[@TruthUnites]

Glad it was helpful!

[@youcatastrophe6434]

Wow. Solid video, Gavin. I love you so much, man. This is probably one of my favorites videos yet. I really hope this video makes the rounds. I think a reasonable account and defense of continuationism is so needed today. May God bless your ministry, brother.

[@chelseadawn19]

So appreciate your balanced perspective.

[@raphaelfeneje486]

God bless you immensely for this. As a continuationist It's a relief to hear this. God bless you immensely 🙏❤️✝️

[@NomosCharis]

This is excellent! Can’t wait to share this with some of my Cessationist friends. Razor-sharp response to the Documentary, and the spirit in which it was done is irreproachable.

[@TruthUnites]

Thanks, glad it was helpful!

[@thomasc9036]

Did you watch to documentary yourself?

[@ravissary79]

Unfortunately it'll likely be reproached anyways. 😐

[@michaelmannucci8585]

If your cessationist friends know what they believe and why, they won’t find this very convincing, as I don’t. I went in with high hopes, but it often doesn’t really even respond to cessationism, but a caricature. So I wouldn’t hold your breath. I think it will take much better arguments (and ones that actually fairly address what we believe) to convince us.

[@ravissary79]

@@michaelmannucci8585 he's responding to the overt claims made. If that's a caricature than blame the documentary creator for making a caricature of his own perspective.

[@aperson4057]

Thank you Dr. Ortlund. At this point, I think at this point, the arguments for and against are clarified and sharpened. I find myself in the continuationist side as I worship in the Charismatic tradition. Our future generations will appreciate these clarifications.

[@jedlicka1227]

Gavin, great video. You really outdid yourself on this one, going above and beyond to provide evidence, but without adding any more drama to what is already a very emotionally charged issue for many people on both sides. As a missionary in Central America, I can attest to the fact that miracles still do occur, and almost no one who is a Christian here ever holds to cessationist views - there are too many personal testimonies of healing, prophecy, and other divine acts of intervention for people to even consider something like this as a possibility, let alone necesitate taking the time to argue through it theologically or historically - but you have done a great job explaining both! God bless you, your family, your church, and your online ministry - and may there be an abounding harvest of spiritual fruit filling every basket of your life. Thank you brother!

[@spamemail5856]

I grew up in a continuist evangelical church with people who came to Christ from many different religious backgrounds. Some people had testimonies of God delivering them from possession and demonic oppression. One of my friends dad was pronounced dead around 12-14 years ago, but God raised him back to life and he continues to live to this day. I’ve had friends who came from islamic backgrounds come to Christ and prophecy over people. They would tell them things about their past, present, and future that nobody knew. I received prophetic words and people telling me things about myself that only I knew and about how God wants to use those experiences for his glory. I’ve grown up experiencing immense spiritual warfare during my sleep, that God delivered me from. I even received a dream from God where he revealed something in real life to me and I was speaking in tounges in my dream to edify my prayer (I was praying in my dream). It was crazy because tounges were the last thing on my mind, but I ended up speaking it and it felt so real. However, over the last few months I have started to grow deeper in the faith and made friends of all different denominations (orthodox, catholic, reformed, etc). Many of them were knowledgeable but would make fun of tounges saying that they weren’t real. I also made many protestant acquaintances that were ceesationists and told me that tounges weren’t real, prophetic words weren’t, and that you only hear from God from the bible. They would use bible verses to back this up but I think some of them may have been quote mining looking back on it. It was hard because I knew the dream I received was from God, and I knew many people who hear from God so well. I was at a battle with myself. After looking into this further I strengthened my continuist position and apologized to God for ever doubting him moving in my life. I also realized how much faith plays a role in miracles. I know that there are people who abuse and fake gifts for a show, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t real. At the end of the day I see it this way: If demonic forces are moving heavily in the world today, who’s to say that God isn’t moving more?

[@ourclarioncall]

God is a speaking God. He walked and talked with Adam in the garden, not through a book. Not in any way to undermine scripture as we know how important it is and that we need to read and feed on it and saturate our minds with it, but God does not restrict His voice to the scriptures alone. There are specific and personal things that God will speak to us about regarding marriage, ministry, holiness, etc etc, many aspects of life. I tend to think that many (not all) Christians don’t hear God speak to them in an intimate way because they just don’t want Him to get that close. A bit like Israel of old who heard God audibly but didn’t want to hear it . They wanted Moses to be a middle man . A bit like how Christians act like the pastor is their God (he does all the praying /seeking and hearing for them) I have a friend who has been a Christian longer than me and he said that He had only heard God speak to him once while he was on a plane going into a Muslim country. Where in comparison I have heard God speak to me multiple times. So that really left me scratching my head as to why .

[@TheRemnantRadio]

Great job bro!

[@RevDavidReyes]

Collab coming?

[@ProphetGreg94]

@@RevDavidReyesthat would be awesome.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

@@RevDavidReyes I think gavin is a little busy in this season of life LOL. Maybe when his life slows down a little.

[@geef0813]

Is it true you defend Bill Johnson? I’ve watched you for quite a while and haven’t seen that. I’m hoping someone was wrong. If so how do you defend him stating that people in his “school of prophecy” can’t go on to the next step until they get 2-3 prophecies WRONG??

[@TheRemnantRadio]

@@geef0813 “defend” is a strong word. I have stated that bethel is cranking out so much error that I do not believe it is a safe place for Christian’s to glean. I have also said I do not think bill Johnson is damned to he’ll forever. I think he is a brother that tolerates enough error that it can seriously hurt believers.

[@elaineauo]

Wow. This is amazing. GOLD. God bless you! And thank you for showing love to cessationists who are our brothers and sisters in Christ! What a great example to the Body! John 13:35. God bless you!

[@EnHacore1]

Why would you call someone that spits out clear lies "your brother in Christ"? They don't care about what the actual text says, they have an agenda and will spit out clear misleading ideas to prove their agenda.

[@BipolarDistortion]

@@EnHacore1be careful to assume motives of all cessationists.

[@Faithhopelove1702]

It is worrying to watch so many intelligent and bible versed Preachers choose not to believe in spiritual gifts. We truly see what we want to see. Same God, same word, I am grateful for spiritual gifts. God bless u Gavin.

[@JesusProtects]

They believe in spiritual gifts. Trough prayer, not imposing hands. Show me one person raising the dead or healing a paraplegic, and prove to me without a shadow of a doubt that it wasn't an actor playing a role or else I'm not interested in charismania.

[@Faithhopelove1702]

@@JesusProtects I truly believe that the Bible is enough for believing in spiritual gifts with or without the hands. Let's not impose on the text our preferences. God bless you.

[@Michael-le5ph]

We truely do see what we want to see. I would ask for a video showing the miracles and healings. What we normally see is church people making claims in church. I thing if gifts and miracles happened around the world, we would all know it. having to argue all the time seems to be a clear indication nothing is happening outside of church serives.

[@Faithhopelove1702]

@Michael-le5ph I don't think healing is meant to be showcased. We have examples in the Bible of healing. The book of James encourages prayers for the sick. Let's trust the word of God.

[@Michael-le5ph]

@@Faithhopelove1702 it doesn’t work like that. It’s like saying aliens exist but there doesn’t need to be proof. If there are healings we would know. If there are miracles of a biblical level we’d know. There simply are no examples. It’s what we want to believe but there is no evidence. Saying the Bible is our evidence is proof we know they don’t really happen so we cling to those stories.

[@GospelDriven]

I grew up up southern Baptist and charismatic and have been apart of very charismatic movements, which is there some abuse and trauma I dealt with. This led me wanting to have nothing to do with charismatics. After that I followed mostly reformed Baptist the paul washers and Justin peters of the world and led me to very hard cessationism. I’m Presbyterian and as of now I really can’t say what I am not really convinced either way but I can say watching this video has given me a lot to think about and the way you presented Dr Gavin was very well done. Thank you

[@mynameis......23]

Continuationism is Biblical. -People doing miracles who are not apostles proof-Luke 9:49-50, mark 9:38-41, Acts 6:8; 8:6; 10:45; 21:9, Zecharias filled with SPIRIT prophesied in Luke 1:67. 6 examples - paul said that you lack no gift until the second coming of Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:7) - 1 Corinthians 13:1-8 says Gift of the Holy Spirit will not cease until we see Christ face to face, meaning until Lord Jesus Christ returns. - Peter said in Acts 2:16-21 in the end days God will pour His Spirit on His people and they will all prophecy, see visions and dreams, sun will turn dark, and moon into blood until the coming of the Day of the Lord. ((Notice how the ends days begins during acts 2 and is still going on because the Day of the Lord has not returned which also means God is still pouring out His people so they can prophecy, see dreams and visions.)) -Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 is speaking to all Christian (1Cori 1:2). And he also says that you DO NOT LACK ANY GIFT UNTIL THE DAY OF THE LORD.(1Cori 1:7-8).(notice says Christians should lack no, not one gift. 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 tell us about the Gifts and we can see that teachings and healing are said together so you can't say we Gift of teaching is present but not healing) -prophesying is a sign for unbelievers 1cor14:24-25 - Received Gifts when believed in JESUS acts11:17 -Ephesians 4:11 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers". Now if there still are Evangelists, Pastors, teachers, there also must be Apostles and Prophets. -Bible says not to neglect Gifts that is in us 1 Timothy 4:14. Bible says keeping using the Gift of Holy Spirit like a small flame that grows into fire. -And remember paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:2 "though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains". - Speaking donkey, Elisha throwing salt in spring to make it pure, Lord Jesus spitting on eyes to heal, Isaiah walked naked because God told him, Elisha threw a stick in water to get the axe from water, Paul' napkin, peter shadow, Isaiah was naked. God doesn't have to do rational miracles. He can do it however He wants -Pray in SPIRIT Jude 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit Ephesians 6:18 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit Ephesians 5:18 18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit In acts 2:4, 4:31, 10:46 when they were filled with SPIRIT they spoke in Tongues. - Unknown tongues accusations debunked 1 Corinthians 14:2 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 1 Corinthians 14:28 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. - and no the Gifts were not fading away in Acts 28 Paul was close to going asleep in the Lord (dying) he went on the island of Malta, and a poisonous snake bite him (the islanders thought he was gonna die) but nothing happened to him rather he healed all who came to him through the Holy Spirit. Second example is John when he was old wrote the Book of Revelation way after the Apostles were martyred. So you can see the Gifts were not fading. -There is difference between Apostles and miracles doers( Apostles do perform miracles as well) - 1 Corinthians 12:28 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.( As you can see first are Apostle and around 4th are people with Gifts of Holy Spirit, you don't have to be Apostle to do miracles). Futher proof, John 14:12 12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. Mark 16:17-18 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 11:23-24 23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. Acts 21:9 9 Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied. James 5:14-15 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.( Notice prayer of Faith will heal the sick, not pray of Apostle) -Now my main argument ,if the New Testament says not to commit adultery and I say commit adultery then what will you call me? A heritic right, because I'm going against the New Testament. Same way the New Testament says do not forbid speaking in tongues(1 Corinthians 14:39) , not to despise prophecies (1 Thessalonians 5:20), desire Spiritual gifts(1 Corinthians 14:1), Lord Jesus Himself said that these signs will follow them that believe (mark 16:17-18),and you(cessationists) FORBID speaking in tongues, you(cessationists) despise prophecies, and you(cessationists) insult those who desire Spiritual gifts which means you(cessationists) are going against New Testament and Apostles and most importantly you are going against Lord Jesus Himself which concludes you(cessationists) are heritics. _ The same Jesus which said "father take this cup away" is the same Jesus who said "ask anything in my name and I'll do it", is the same Jesus who said "if you have faith of a Mustard Seed, you can move mountains", is the same Jesus who said "23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. . Is the same Jesus who said "the thing that I did greater than these you'll do" is the same Jesus who said "17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”. Same Jesus who said," if you leave wealth, wife , family, in this life will get 100 folds back in the same life(mark 10:29-30)". Same Jesus who said "all things are POSSIBLE with God",. Same Jesus who said "nothing will be impossible for you(Matthew 17:20)". I hope you get the point One more thing in Isaiah 53 with forgiveness, healing is also given. And if you think that only forgiveness is given then you are wrong. Isaiah 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. _ God said He will raise a prophet like Moses every generation. Cessationist say only in the time of Moses Elijah and Lord Jesus miracles great miracles happened. Not true 👇 Moses, abharam, Samson(super power), Samuel(bringing rain to prove his prophetship), David prophesied, Saul did as well, Nathan the prophet, Gad the prophet, Man of God(1 kings 13), and old Prophet(1 king 13 as well), Elijah(Elijah called himself prophet in 1 king 18:22) and he also called himself a man of God (2 kings 1:10), Elisha(2 kings 5:8),(. ahijah the prophet(1 king 14), jehu the prophet(1 king 16), 100 Prophets (1 king 18:4), Prophet ( 1 kings 20:13), a man of God ( 1 kings 20:28), micaiah the prophet (1 kings 22), sons of prophets in Bethel (2 kings 2:3), sons of prophets in Jericho (2 kings 2:5), 50 men of sons of prophets in Jordan (2 kings 2:7). prophet Isaiah saves Hezekiah (2 kings 19). Daniel the prophet. Huldah the prophetess (2 kings 22:14). Prophets in(2 kings 23:2 notice it says Prophets pural). (2 kings 23:18)The sons of asaph, and of Herman, and of jeduthun prophesying with music (1 chronicles 25:1). shemaiah the prophet (2 chronicles 11:2, 2 chronicles 12:5). Prophet iddo (2 chronicles 13:22), more Prophets (pural) God sent to save His people 2 chronicles 24:19. A man of God in 2 chronicles 25:7, and a prophet as well in 2 chronicles 25:15. Prophet oded 2 chronicles 28:9. another prophetess in 2 chronicles 34:22, Jeremiah 32:20 "says You have continued signs and wonders to this day" _ Elijah, Elisha took few tries 1 kings 18:43 1 kings 17:21 2 kings 4:33-35 2 Kings 5:14 Mark 8:23-26. _ Being charismatics doesn't mean you're not Sola Scriptura - Sola Scriptura means Scriptures are the Sole infallible authority for doctrines. Doesn't say only authority rather only infallible authority. There is Church authority as well but it's not infallible. Rather cessationism is unbiblical because there is not one verse that say Gift of the Holy Spirit ceased. Bible do not forbid speaking in tongues 1 Corinthians 14:39 , don't despise prophecies 1 Thessalonians 5:20, desire Spiritual Gifts 1 Corinthians 14:1, Lord Jesus said signs and miracles will follow them that believe Mark 16:17-18. -There were 50 prophets in the time of Elijah but their writings were not there. - Same with Apostles Barnabas. His writings are not there. Where as Luke who is not Apostle his writings are Scriptures. - Prophetess Anna in Luke 2:36-38 her writing are not there - acts 11, 21 Thus says Holy Spirit - many Prophets in acts but thier writings were not written/ 50 Prophets in Elijah' time their writings were not added. - Paul said if any thinks he is a prophet let him acknowledge that my writings are Commandments of God. There were prophets in the time of Pentecost but their writings are not there.

[@tjkhan4541]

Hey, sorry for what you went through; I can relate to getting so confused on an issue that you just don’t know where to land or which way to think. May the Lord keep us. Glad that it sounds like you are in a better spiritual headspace today too. 🙏🏻

[@keepkalm777]

I love this filming location. It's so calming and comforting to watch and enjoy. Very edifying information, thanks Gavin 💗

[@Ryan-tv4wc]

Dr. Ortlund is a continuations, too? NICE! Another excellent video with respectful rebuttals. Have been extremely encouraged and blessed by your channel. Thank you Dr. O!!

[@TruthUnites]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@ewene2656]

Thank you so much for this Gavin. It's great to have such a strong yet concise rebuttal to share with others.

[@IdaBoisKristitynvaellus]

I am a cessationist and disagree with you on this one, but very good and Christlike response 😊👍 God bless 🙏

[@noddfachurch4968]

So much wisdom in this video. Thank you dear brother for your faithfulness to the text and respect and love for those who think differently.

[@royhooper8080]

Thankyou Gavin….this is so helpful as I come from a cessationist church background but have always wondered about its validity as I read through the scriptures and hear testimony of miracles especially from those who serve Jesus in faraway places. Love Truth Unites and wish you well in the new year in your new city. 🎉

[@jonahkattau1128]

Im here because Jimmy had high praise for it

[@Galmala94]

Cessationism is a textbook example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Charismatic theology has its problems, but cessationism is not the solution. Great video! :)

[@br.m]

How so? I don't understand how is it like throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Can you help me understand something Jesus said then? If miraculous works are continuous, ongoing, ever pesent. Why then did Jesus say the opposite? Either cessationism is correct, or Jesus is a liar? John 9:4 As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work.

[@turkeybobjr]

Absolutely agree! It is an overcorrection led mostly by ego. If we want to take on the charismatics, we don't need to create a theological framework that is clearly in conflict with scripture. We just need to properly exegete Acts chapter 2.

[@banmancan1894]

As a charismatic, I agree, with the original comment that is.

[@joshuatrott193]

​@@br.mthis verse is talking about life and death. Time to do is while we are alive, for when life ends there's no time left. Or Jesus is here now to do those works, when He leaves what happens? He sends the helper HS to continue the work. The second points to the Trinity being separate yet united

[@tomtemple69]

the baby is dead....

[@Mhaydy99]

I lean toward a form of cessationism and agree with most of Gavin’s critiques. That documentary made many wild arguments.

[@user-ee2vt7yi3m]

I can tell you cessationism is almost entirely wrong, the only thing is miracles, and by that I mean "magic" miracles like turning water into wine or walking on water or raising the dead, not prophecy or signs of will and intent by god, encountered far too many people who cannot be considered insane believing in them or relaying experiences that are conducive to god's communiques

[@geef0813]

@@user-ee2vt7yi3mI find experiential evidence as unconvincing. You’d be better to use scripture.

[@user-ee2vt7yi3m]

@@geef0813 am I to trust the will of god as he's made known to me directly, or the words of men who wrote in a book if they conflict

[@user-ee2vt7yi3m]

@@geef0813if you say the book then I must ask why you aren't practicing leviticus on homosexuals or following mathew 18:6 towards every atheist parent that "debunks" their kid's belief in god

[@BenjaminAnderson21]

@@user-ee2vt7yi3m Even when God revealed his teaching to the Apostles, those who are described as the foundation of the Church, the believers are said to have searched the Scriptures to see if their letters were consistent with what was written. How much more should we search the Scriptures when someone who has no Apostolic authority claims direct divine revelation!

[@Jeremy73950]

Have been waiting for it since the community tab post. I personally love the long format videos, so looking forward to this one!

[@RevDavidReyes]

I say this in the most non-hostile way possible, a Christian middle schooler that reads his bible could debunk cessationism. Cessationism is just not biblical. It’s a too-extreme response to the extreme charismatics.

[@tomtemple69]

it's the historical position... apostles and prophets are no longer given that is by default cessationism....

[@RevDavidReyes]

@@tomtemple69 Have you done the research or just heard somebody teach that? It’s literally not the historical position. Gavin himself here does the argument and shows proof that in their own writings(reformers) they’re not Cessationist. If so, at least not in the way that modern Cessationists mean.

[@tomtemple69]

@@RevDavidReyes do you believe we still have apostles and prophets and God is regularly giving new revelation outside of the Bible?

[@RevDavidReyes]

@@tomtemple69 Apostles hand picked by Jesus for the cannon of scripture, no. But apostle in the biblical sense, yes, of course. Philippians 2:25; 2 Corinthians 8:23. Here we see scriptures where the non-12 hand picked apostles by Jesus are called apostles in the Greek- which is the original. Regularly giving revelation in the way of authority for cannon, no. Regularly giving revelation in the biblical sense, yes, of course. 1 Corinthians 14:3, 5. Here we see scriptures where non-apostles are prophesying.

[@tomtemple69]

@@RevDavidReyes so these modern day prophets are still here giving extra-biblical revelation?

[@LemonLimeJuiceBarrell]

Video quality here is solid. Your editing is improving as well. Keep it going brother!

[@tuckermcdonald551]

Thank you for your balanced and loving review of this documentary. I know many people need level headed conversations about the gifts without accusations, insults, and stereotyping. God bless brother!

[@ninasju]

Thank you so much, Dr Ortlund, for summing up the concerning aspects of this film. You nailed it.

[@subzee5623]

Gavin Ortlund DESTROYS smug cessationist, lol, amazing vid!

[@petercollins7848]

Not every cesassionist is ‘smug’! I do not think that your comment can be inspired by the Holy Spirit!

[@joannewells]

Excellent. Thoughtful, in love but truthful. I just put Augustine's book in my amazon cart! Thank you Dr. Ortlund. I love my Cessationist brothers and sister. I have learned so much from them and will continue to do so, but I am a continuationist.

[@kengineexpress]

As someone who is reformed, it is good to see another reformer who is a continuationist. It breaks the stigma and makes it okay to be in this camp and not be a cessationist.

[@uganda_mn397]

John Piper is also right? as for me althought reformed and not a standard view i simply haven't seen it yet Not that it's a Scriptural argument but since there are hints + The Scripture and authority has been established, there is no need for them anymore and so God doesn't have apostles or healers but He heals people, just not through other people per se

[@SahihChristian]

​@@uganda_mn397In other words, there's no scriptural backing for your false claims but you'll hold on to your view because you haven't seen it, since you haven't seen it, it doesn't happen. Why are you not an atheist?? Your argument is similar to that of an atheist. You are speaking for God and putting God in a box to operate as you wish. As one who's seen raw signs and wonders in the mission field, I can conclude that you're delusional. And if you're an African, with the level of demonic operation going on there, you're spiritually dead

[@Laura-is8sy]

Thank you so much for your review of this movie. I actually go to one of those churches where our Pastor is interviewed. I came from an extreme Pentecostal background and was drawn to expository teaching. Although I knew they didn't agree with some Charismatic views, I was really surprised by an entire film dedicated to cessationism. I strongly consider myself a continuist, I just didn't share that with other church members. It seems as though I ended up on the other extreme of beliefs. I appreciate in the scriptures you provided and for your dedication to demonstrate and educate the truth . Pray for me and my family, as we will need to find a better church fit since according to their film I am not a Protestant! I cannot change my view, as I have seen miracles and God's spirit moving for his glory, in the biblical context and I cannot deny it.

[@MrLlamajockey]

I loved your balanced approach. I really liked Remnant Radio's series on this too, but its always nice to hear some different perspectives. I grew up in a very charismatic environment, but studied in a cessationist environment. I've seen both the best and worst of the charismatic movement, and it always pains me when things like this Cessationist documentary come out that ultimately do nothing but repeat the same echo chamber arguments rather than actually engage with the opposing theological views.

[@michaelmannucci8585]

I feel the same about the other side. I’ve seldom seen someone give any actual arguments against cessationism. They’re often just straw man arguments, or just bad arguments (including most of this video).

[@MrLlamajockey]

​@@michaelmannucci8585 Both sides do it for sure. However, I don't know how you can say Gavin was doing that here, or others addressing this documentary. They're literally showing the clips and addressing the points directly. That is the antithesis of a straw man. This is pretty short, but Remnant radio has like 9 hours total going through the documentary and picking it apart. If you really want to engage with that, it sounds like it could be more up your street.

[@michaelmannucci8585]

@@MrLlamajockey I wrote a lengthy reply to Gavin that he made some straw-man arguments. Obviously, he doesn't feel the same, but as a cessationist i know when my position is being misrepresented. Off the top of my head, he gives a whole section of his video showing that other "lay" Christian (other than the Apostles) spoke in tongues and prophesied. *I do not know of a single cessationist* who believes that only the Apostles spoke in tongues a prophesied. This is one of many examples of straw man arguments (and a few really bad ones). If you're creating an argument against a position no one holds, that's a straw man. Though I want to point out quickly that I don't think it's intentional. I think Gavin just might not be that familiar with cessationism, and he's filling gaps in his knowledge of the topic with assumptions.

[@MrLlamajockey]

@@michaelmannucci8585 I think part of the issue is there's a fair bit of diversity within the two camps. To his credit, Gavin does acknowledge this. I have heard that particular argument argued about tongues, though I'm glad to hear it may not be as prevalent as it may have seemed. In the same token, I've literally never had any cessationist accurately represent my beliefs either in conversation -- or things like this documentary. I'm used to being written off as a mislead (or potentially demonically possessed) fool who doesn't know the Bible or think 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is true. From that starting point, it always ends up toxic since it doesn't start from a place of mutual respect.

[@michaelmannucci8585]

@MrLlamajockey I don’t mean to be skeptical, but I would challenge you to find a quote from a mainline cessationist teacher, theologian, or author arguing that only the apostles and prophets spoke in tongues. I would guess you won’t find any. I have read and listened to a lot of cessationist perspectives and never once heard this. I think it’s better to assume that Gavin thought cessationists believed this and unintentionally misrepresented them instead of maintaining that “some” believe this… unless you can show that’s the case? And I’m sorry you’ve been misrepresented by people you know. That sucks. But what in the doc made a straw man of continuationism?

[@user-lf3lx7ph7z]

Great theology; straightforward, thorough. Thank God for such expository clarity and defense of the Gospel!

[@BecketCook]

excelllent

[@yvonnehedeker3441]

Thank you! Wonderful job! Fair and loving presentation.

[@rondouglas4296]

Jimmy Akin sent me here. He had good things to say about this presentation.

[@owengunter8340]

Thank you for video, I was a cessationist, and I no longer am.

[@tomb6585]

This video is so well done. I have studied these issues a lot over the years, trying to understand both sides of the debate. I have never experienced the more miraculous spiritual gifts, although I have asked for them. But I am convinced that Ortlund here "rightly divides the word of truth" and far more objectively than the other side. Gavin, you are charitable and kind, yet firm where you perceive falsehood. I am thankful for the way the Lord has gifted you and is using you. I think this is one of the best discussions on the topic that I have ever seen. Ortlund is nuanced and it is very obvious that he is extremely well informed. I don't feel that in the video documentary that there was as much nuance given, and sometimes it did not feel charitable. May this video spread under God's blessing.

[@benavans6129]

Thank you for this 🔥

[@jilesherron]

Fantastic work brother, love it! The effort you put in is clearly seen. Keep it up, más y más!

[@incredable6211]

I remember working with an electoral contractor for a few days, I think he was a baptist, he had the beginnings of a migraine one day and told me to start packing up cause he knew he'd better get home while he could. So I asked him if I could pray for him, so I kind of paraphrased several verses of healing in my prayer for him, then we continued to pick our stuff up, a few minutes later he came and told me the headache had gone away, that had never happened before. There was no drama just me and him, oh and an awesome God, He's so awesome. Oh, and then there's my now adult daughter, she was in ICU for 2 weeks after being born the doctors gave us pretty grim odds for her to be okay, she's doing pretty good at her pretty stressful accounts payable job that just happened to become available when she needed it a year ago now. There's so many more stories of God in my life. Thank-you so much dear Lord, you are here, Bless your Holy Name!

[@Michael-le5ph]

headaches are not proof as they go away on their own. show me an example of a miracle where the dead are raised or amputated limbs that grow back.

[@KMANelPADRINO]

It is very good to see that this documentary has caused so great a doctrinal interaction on this matter. The more that we are awakened to the real way this world works, the more that we may eschew some of the blinders (which in this case I am tempted to attribute to the Enlightenment, but there are many more that come from other epochs) that stop us from fully functioning as the Church Body.

[@kylesilva4063]

Great video! Thanks for addressing that documentary!

[@blakewolford8903]

“To believe in sola scriptura is to be a cessationist” Me, a Catholic: 👁️👄👁️ Seriously though, GREAT job Gavin. Cessationism can’t coexist with knowledge of scripture and history, and you did a great job of pointing out all the factually incorrect claims here

[@justinwhitcomb4903]

Boy oh boy, fundamentalism is wild. Thank you for your input!

[@EricBlauer]

Fantastic video. So good. Thank you.

[@jackshannon777]

Excellent work again, Rev. Ortlund!

[@marjae5432]

Very insightful video with much of clarification. Thank you!

[@Joao_Pelinca]

Very inspiring and biblically based video!

[@BenOkunlola]

You indeed have done superb work. This is very helpful and I will teach others also. Continue the good work. May the Lord keep you.

[@joelfields9807]

This one of the best responses I have hear to this issue! I gotta hit that subscribe button 😊

[@JonJaeden]

Made me subscribe, too.

[@michaelbabbitt3837]

What are we without the active life of the Holy Spirit in us? Mere intellects reading a book and we don’t fully avail ourselves of the gifts that God wants to impart to us. We then are rejecting the fullness of God. Do some people abuse the possibility of gifts? Yes. There is always the risk of abuse. It is part of human fallenness. But employing the gifts in relation to Scripture, brings us a fuller and richer spiritual life.

[@Michael-le5ph]

I would ask for real world examples of healings and miracles caught on camera or video. we all have smartphones so if they happen we should have real world example and not just claims of people in church services. I'm sorry to say we have zero examples at this point that have not proven to be fakes, fakes made by christians of all people. We don't need to argue or lie about miracles, we should have plenty of example by now but what we have are claims by christians with no evidence whatsoever.

[@carlosvaz6338]

👏🏿 awesome! Thanks for this.

[@paulski73]

I’ve personally witnessed many miracles and spiritual gifts in my own ministry and the ministries of those we work with in restricted nations where they often don’t have “the perfect word” in written form. Somehow, Jesus breaks through and reveals Truth, heals, sets free, and confirms the Gospel message with holy signs and wonders. Did it ever occur to these gentlemen that cessationism might be because they haven’t gotten outside of their own tiny culture? Has it ever occurred to them that the scriptures weren’t available to the masses until the Reformation lit that fire? Has it occurred to them that most people through history have been illiterate? Somehow, the Gospel goes forth with signs following…even today. I am a witness. 4:48

[@BrownGuyGaming91]

As a calvinist myself only for a couple of months now, after almost 3 years of researching Calvinism, it's good to see another calvinist that's also a continuationist. It seems like they're harder to find but they do exist lol. I've been saved for 5 years and I've always believed in the gifts after receiving dreams, words of knowledge and even giving words of knowledge, believing deliverance and casting out demons from people etc. So I would say I'm reformed in doctrine but charismatic in expression when people ask me. But most importantly I'm a Christian.

[@PJW605]

Excellent work as always Gavin. I appreciate all the hard work you put into this…and apparently at Christmas time and as you’re moving I assume? I am increasingly concerned about these G3 guys. They seemed to be intent on shutting a LOT of people out of the kingdom. Well done on the video and thank you!

[@michaelmannucci8585]

Accusing those men of wanting to shut people out of the kingdom is foolishness and slander. A lot of those men are elders, so I’d think twice about so publicly accusing them of sin without evidence of their heart’s intent.

[@ggallant59]

So good, Gavin. Loved your approach and winsome, Biblical treatment of the subject. Just today I had a meeting with someone who was raised in a cessationist environment and is now discovering the fulness of God’s spirit and how he moves in peoples lives. So amazing to see what God is doing today, through his church and his people.

[@robertj5208]

Sovereign Cessationism (best definition of Cessationism that I've heard so far): '"Although the Apostles, rich in their unique Apostolic gifting of signs and wonders, died many hundreds of years ago, God is sovereign and today can heal whoever he wants, through whomever He chooses to use as the vehicle, whenever He chooses."

[@ShepherdMinistry]

Who’s the quote from?

[@toonnaobi-okoye2949]

I don’t see anything cessationist about that statement 🤔

[@michaelmannucci8585]

@@toonnaobi-okoye2949 That's because you don't understand cessationism.

[@Taushathetech]

Yep. This is what I believe.

[@rickperez1336]

As always very helpful analysis!…and as I can be so bold as to say, Gavin, you have the “gift of knowledge” bro!

[@benhartzell2800]

I think your point (around the 45-minute mark) about there being different types of prophecy is really overlooked in this debate. You provided excellent examples from OT and NT. The Bible is not shy about highlighting "prophecy" by men and women who are not the (capital P) prophets. I agree with you that it would be ridiculous to think that all these people spontaneously and regularly "prophesying" were exercising the same type of prophecy that Isaiah & Jeremiah were exercising.

[@nathankostbade1593]

Great video and great explanation in a proper and loving way to those we disagree with.

[@tpw7250]

Great to see the improvement in the quality of your videos. Your content has always been good, but great to see the improved editing and camera work. Keep it up!

[@snehalkawde4375]

Thank you 🙏 God bless you.🎉

[@brandonbooth2425]

I hold to a more Cessationist view, but this documentary does not represent the position well at all. From the clips Dr. Ortlund showed, there were way too many over generalizations and comments that just weren't accurate in portraying a more hermeneutically based case for cessationism. A great cessationist resource (for anyone interested) is the book "Spiritual Gifts" by Dr. Thomas Schriener. He very humbly makes his case on the issue while showing great grace to the other side of the argument. He even dedicates the book to John Piper, Wayne Grudem, and Sam Storms (all of whom he knows personally) to show his love for them. I had the privilege of being a student of Dr. Schriener and he is one of the most humble Bible teachers I've ever met (similar to Dr. Ortlund). It is a much better resource for those interested in the other side of the argument than this documentary in my opinion. Thank you Dr. Ortlund for the time you put into this video! Even though I disagree with somethings in the video, I greatly appreciate your ministry and your resources. God Bless!

[@TruthUnites]

Thanks for mentioning Dr. Schreiner, a wonderful Christian.

[@brandonbooth2425]

Agreed. Thank you Dr Ortlund for your ministry. I’ve been blessed by your humble approach and kind demeanor in dealing with controversial subjects. Truly a good model for pastors and teachers. Blessings to you and your ministry!

[@hansonr22]

Good vid Gavin, welcome to the Volunteer State.

[@JosiahReynolds-mh6lz]

Fantastic stuff! Definitely in cessationist circles but your point on different kinds of cessationism is very sharp. As time goes on I feel that I can't really call myself by that name anymore.

[@marshacaveny3646]

Thank you for being careful.

[@ForwardTalk]

I am glad to see that you are a continuationist. Good job.

[@jamestrotter3162]

You nailed it again brother. I'm glad you're in Nashville. We need more men of God here.

[@arthurbrugge2457]

This was excellent. I lean cessationist, but you did a great job pointing out the flaws in this documentary. Some of their points are borderline dishonest.

[@eclipsesonic]

This was very well presented and you gave an honest look at the claims of Cessationism. It's always good to look at both sides of the argument and you gave a solid case for Continuationism, while showing humility and gentleness, in response to fellow Christians, whom you disagree with, which is how any Christian should respond to fellow believers that they disagree with on a non-essential issue. I'm curious to see a response to your critique from a Cessationist.

[@not_milk]

I didn’t want to believe that gifts would cease. But now it’s December 26th, and I realize that the season of giving has truly come to a close. We can’t hang onto the past and try to force the gifts to continue.

[@dansands6363]

Sounds like someone got coal in their stocking.

[@JesusProtects]

​@@dansands6363 make fun of someone for stating an opinion is not nice.

[@ntlearning]

Wow the grinch came for Xmas.

[@samueljennings4809]

@JesusProtects I don’t think there’s any mocking going on. The original comment is about Christmas gifts (hence why they mention December 26th). They’re just playing along.

[@blank-964]

Thanks! Someone needs to debate cessationism publicly.

[@toonnaobi-okoye2949]

Check out Remnant Radio that Gavin referenced. They have most 10 hours of video on KZbin addressing the documentary.

[@blank-964]

@@toonnaobi-okoye2949 Seen em. Defiantly a good job

[@kburdett]

Yeah....I stopped looking to remnant after they defended Bill Johnson.

[@blank-964]

@@kburdett I can respect that for sure. I’m hesitant with them but their argumentation on this topic speaks for itself.

[@geef0813]

@@kburdett oh wow. I haven’t seen that yet. That’s disappointing. Once I heard Bill say that you couldn’t continue in their “school of prophecy” unless you got stuff wrong, I was floored.

[@Chudmander]

Soon-to-be-Catholic here: I love your heart and videos, Dr Ortlund. I’ve recommended you to a lot of people. Bless you! When I was coming out of atheism into Christianity I used you as a counter balance to Catholic teachers and books I was reading. Thank you for everything that you’re doing.

[@TruthUnites]

glad to be connected! God bless!

[@my1vice]

There you go.... Nuff said.

[@ProfYaffle]

Might sit down with my son and watch this for Friday night fim night

[@ProfYaffle]

We did. Bought the film and watched it first, so a proper double bill! Fun

[@CamGaylor]

I take the same view as your average calvary chapel person. Gifts are continued but they should not be abused.

[@Michael-le5ph]

If they continue we should already have documented proof and once again there isn't any that hasn't been debunked.

[@ro6ti]

Cessationists presume to speak for the Lord where He has not spoken, saying gifts have ceased. The ministries that expose false prophets should do videos on these guys!

[@geef0813]

I believe that’s a disingenuous and mean spirited reductionist view of a brother or sister in Christ. It may be rooted in a misunderstanding of scripture, but most cessationists are trying to be mindful Christians and have no ill intent.

[@geef0813]

Seems a Little prideful too

[@ro6ti]

@@geef0813 Are you feigning like it was a personal attack instead of just facing the fact that you can't declare signs have ended if the Bible doesn't say they have ended? And, if the Bible doesn't say they have ended, then you need a prophet to declare they've ended. This is not rocket science or a personal attack. It's just believing the Bible and rejecting someone declaring something in the Name of the Lord that He hasn't said. This is basic cult avoidance.

[@Michael-le5ph]

Then you should easily be able to find proven examples of these gifts. Where are they? not one piece of evidence anywhere.

[@ro6ti]

​@@Michael-le5ph Personally, I experienced speaking in tongues during one time reading the book of Romans decades ago. This is before I heard anyone do such a thing, so I wasn't mimicking anything and I wasn't seeking for any experience. I was just reading. This isn't proof for you, but I'm a witness of it. That's all I can say. But, as Paul says, it's an elementary gift. It's better to be able to convey and explain God's Word than to speak in tongues. I don't speak in tongues anymore (maybe I should, I don't know) and I wouldn't publicly anyway without an interpreter. Those churches with people who do it out of order are violating the Lord's clear commands. Healings happen even at the hands of charlatans, because it's faith in the Name of the Lord Jesus that brings miracles to sincere hearts, not the person who misuses His Name. To the false prophets who use His Name to do miracles for filthy gain and propagation of false doctrine, He will say on the Last Day, "Depart from me, you evildoers." He won't say the miracles in His Name were fake. You can't say His Word has ceased in some area unless you have a prophet to declare it, and there is no prophet to declare that gifts and miracles have ceased. His Word stands against anyone who presumes to say such a thing without His authority.

[@prawjeke]

Thanks Gavin. I'm very saddened to hear such gifted theologians be so irresponsible, and your tone is as important as your content. One more point on the "foundations" argument, is it just seems ridiculous in light of the sovereignty of God for all those instructions on Spiritual Gifts in 1 Cor to be inscripturated only to demonstrate that they don't function anymore because of the date of the book. As if all these instructions on Spiritual Gifts were inscripturated as some sort of historical curiosity that we could read and say, "Wow, things were so crazy back then...'

[@Cletus_the_Elder]

This was a wonderful hour. Fair. Grounded in Scripture. Gracious. I have been a Presbyterian since my youth. If there were Presbyterian pastors and theologians in this cessationist movie, I would be perplexed as to why they chose to travel so far up the pews to confront other believers on this issue, given they have their own houses to set in order. Yes, there are abuses among those who claim spiritual gifts. To me, the abusers and their followers seem to be similar to the Hebrews who forged the golden calf, to fill the void of what they considered to be His silence. That is on the extreme end. On the other end of the spectrum, the cessationists would limit His work in the lives of believers to the study of Scripture and circumstance, developing the fruits of patience and perseverance as they wait, but perhaps insensitive to His presence.

[@tomtemple69]

"On the other end of the spectrum, the cessationists would limit His work in the lives of believers to the study of Scripture and circumstance, developing the fruits of patience and perseverance as they wait, but perhaps insensitive to His presence." that is an assumption you're making against a position and you're inserting your opinion of "His presence" no one can seem to define that

[@peterh.8027]

Thank you for this video Gavin. Very thankful for good teaching like this. Fair and reasonable. I became a continuationist through Sam Storms work. I love our cessationist brothers, but I think their assessment of the biblical text is flawed. I used to have so many misconceptions of charismatics. I want to know better what it means to prophecy today. I wish I had a mentor to teach me to discern when God is speaking. Merry Christmas!

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

There will always be extremists in the charismatic camp. What is ignored though, is genuine miracles and healings do happen through these strong believers. Many of them also have sound theology too, and not all are tainted w/ wrong word of faith or manifestation heresies.

[@lepardpaw]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I appreciate you walking through this video. I was raised Continuationist and never knew there were Christian’s that believed differently until I was older. Most arguments I hear are from Cessationist defending their view. It is refreshing to hear someone defend the Continuationist view. Thank you and may the Lord continue to bless your ministry.

[@kentemple7026]

very good Dr. Ortlund. You made a good over-all case. I think you nuked the "3 era cluster argument". I still think the confirmation and foundation arguments are the best. (closing of the canon) Good job showing the weaknesses of the church history argument. (examples of Augustine, Knox, Rutherford, Luther, Spurgeon) The biggest problem for me for continualism is the subjective nature of a lot of continuationism - claiming the gift of prophesy - I always thought Grudem's argument for real prophesy that is garbled or communicated wrongly, based a lot on the Agabus prophesy was very very weak. Difficult to control when people start claiming these things in ministry and church services. Tongues seems clearly real human languages in the world (Acts 2) Another problem is the modern "glossolalia" of the Pentecostal / Charismatic movement which is just "gooblygook babbling" - anyone can imitate that. That's why it seems the true gift of tongues was in different languages and they translated them so they can understand and after the canon was complete that gift really did cease. Except for pioneer/frontier areas on the mission field type of situations. So why did I and many other missionaries have to spend years studying language and learning another language? ( I learned Farsi and some Turkish - they take work!!) I am reading through 1-2 Samuel now and I had forgotten about those passages that say that the Spirit rushed on Saul and he prophesied (they don't tell us what he said !) and about the school of the prophets. (they don't really explain what that is) It is hard to understand what prophesy exactly is. It seems to be mostly preaching against sin and calling for repentance and proclaiming God's holiness and character ( in the writing prophets) as oppossed to "foretelling the future". (maybe 80 % content is preaching about God and holiness and against sin and calling for repentance and 20 % is predictive prophesy. (?)

[@CaseyCovenant]

Great video Dr. Ortlund! Would love to see a book from you on these topics!

[@RevDavidReyes]

50:25, This is something I’ve heard a lot from Cessationist and it’s very disingenuous. To say “said-person was a Cessationist ” without saying that said-person later rejected cessationism. Also with blanket statements like “the reformers”. Really? Every reformer? Common. To my Cessationist friends, stop with this. These are weak arguments and maybe just flat out lying.

[@lorainem2510]

Excellent!!!

[@KMANelPADRINO]

Just have to comment and say this: For the Church history section, I was totally floored and flabbergasted at the initial claims there. I’m a Church historian by training. And I don’t equivocate when I say that merely reading the *Life of St. Antony* which is a story roughly concurrent with Augustine and John Chrysostom that it is very clear that the idea that miracles became less or diminished was not the general Christian belief. Also, Augustine famously changed his mind on miracles after further evaluation. And also, also, the Greek East and the Latin West certainly does not constitute the whole of Christianity at that time. There were entire worlds of Christians in the African lands beyond Egypt, in the Caucasus mountains, in northern Arabia and even into southern Arabia, and in the Persian domains. The Roman domains are just a small sample size. Statements like these really make me to wonder what is being taught in seminaries concerning Church history. I’m decidedly not seminarian trained, but I’ve run into a lot of offhandedly inaccurate comments and claims like this one from modern seminarians.

[@toonnaobi-okoye2949]

I have always wondered, as someone from an African country, of when historical reference is made to eastern and western Christianity, what about African Christianity and Christianity in other parts of the world. Do we not just have records of Christianity outside the east and the west?

[@smaller_than_small9433]

@@toonnaobi-okoye2949eastern and western doesn’t exclude Africa or the other churches the above commenter mentioned. East and west just groups together those who were in association with Rome and the pope or the Eastern Orthodox after the great schism. In Africa there were some churches aligned with the east and some aligned with the west.

[@KMANelPADRINO]

@@smaller_than_small9433 The speakers in the video explicitly refer to the “Greek East” and the “West” as representing the Church, and they used John Chrysostom and Augustine as respective representatives, both men being Romans. I responded to the video. Also, the Church in Armenia and the Church in Persia and the Church in Aksum and the Christians in the Arabian peninsula were not, at that time, aligned with the East or the West as you currently define them (a bit anachronistically).

[@user-jn8nn6bf6v]

@@KMANelPADRINO Orientals/Assyrians (the original "East") are always left out in a lot of Western studies.

[@toonnaobi-okoye2949]

@@user-jn8nn6bf6v Fascinating!

[@MsGardener77]

Very helpful critique, thank you so much!