CGC Responds To Comic Book Reholder Scam And YouTuber Shows How It Was Done

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[@thomasbobby7444]

They had to respond.. their whole business model just came unglued using a 12$ home depot heat gun.. lol !

[@TooPunkToBeAPodcast]

If one person did it, many have done it. No way its one person and a couple hundred books over all these years

[@jacobbornowsky4013]

Why do I have the feeling this isn’t the only seller doing this

[@vendora1]

cuz this isnt the only one plus you have had other scams such as laser trimming the edges of books etc took graders along time to find that out my issue is they guarentee this stuff and then this shit happens which makes the guarentee worthless

[@virtualrealityfitness283]

Hundreds of books sounds conservative to me!

[@spacewolfRIFF]

I hope not, but at this point so does retaining a private investigation firm. Which, unironically, is the comic book ass way to respond to this… Unfortunately, this is real life and even just a few hundred books, distributed across the country sounds like the type of large scale fraud that falls under the purview of the federal bureau investigations.

[@JLConrad]

Maybe CGC needs to remove the G from their name since essentially they cannot guarantee anything within its current system. A few hundred books? How do they know it's limited to an individual at this stage? If one person figured out a high-price scam, there are most likely others as well. YT people are celebrating this statement, but it really doesn't say that much. Where is the list of affected books? Why not release it immediately, so people can try to avoid purchasing them (where some are likely in the open market)? Unfortunately, CGC slabs don't seem worth it anymore and this opinion is coming from a collector who really liked slabs.

[@lafanfarlo4872]

Bro, 100/85000000 = 0.0001%, it's a VERY decent error rate. Even at 1000/85000000 = 0.001%, it's a decent error rate. It may look like a lot if you put all those fraudulent books together, but at business scale it's nothing more than an affordable risk.

[@davelaughey431]

It's unlikely to be just 100 books more likely many times that number. It's also the fact nearly all these tampered books are of the high value variety so disproportionately effects the market.

[@JLConrad]

@@davelaughey431 Exactly. That was perfectly stated.

[@MetalBum]

Glad cgc responded hope they put the guy in jail

[@mysterymac38]

If you have the monopoly on this scam, why would you risk telling others how to do it? You could get outed either when you tell them, or the minute they get caught doing it. To me it wouldn't make sense your give your secret away.

[@DocReasonable]

I suppose the good thing is we no longer have to resubmit to CGC to get a reholder. We just do it ourselves for free, no pesky fees or postage costs.

[@Enrique-Garcia]

CGC should make their archived photos of each book publicly available when you look up a book's certification, not just the grader notes. Then you can see for yourself whether the book inside the case is the original or not. At least on anything below a 9.4, you'll see every little spine tick and corner dent, whether they match what you have or not. Short of dipping the book in resin, I don't think any case they ever come up with will ever be tamper-proof.

[@wheelhouse3221]

This has definitely been done by more than just this seller. I am glad that guy shed light on just how simple it is to open one of these things. What I am most concerned with is not as much swapping lower grade books out but possibly putting fakes in these cases. CGC grading is a joke and that’s why they don’t guarantee that. But authenticity is what they do guarantee and to me as a collector I care about that much more than grade. Which is why I like having graded books.

[@lifegood3322]

If they admit to a few hundred then.... 🤔

[@Caseshells123]

Serial number etched into the inner well will take care of that issue. The serial number with a holo attached or some kind of security extra step to the etched serial number etched into the inner well

[@DocReasonable]

I like how they say 'a few' hundred to minimise it, instead of saying 'several ' hundred.

[@shawnmichaud4484]

Or "we have no idea how many other people have also done this in the past". My guess is this one individual has done hundreds.

[@DocReasonable]

They've said one individual has done hundreds. Problem is, everyone knows how to swap cases now... gonna get worse before it gets better (hint, it won't ever get better). @@shawnmichaud4484

[@user-yf1cz8cl6c]

Why is it that no one is blaming Marvel fans for this as well? Marvel and their fans have always been POS, and frauds that copy DC.

[@restonslaststand9946]

Reminds me when Tylenol pulled their products immediately off ALL shelves, when tampering was found. It was nationwide, and this affects comic slab collectors everywhere. Pity the fool(s) that perpetrated this crime.

[@reprintranch]

Yes, the response by the Johnson & Johnson company to the 1982 Tylenol murders is still considered one of the best examples of an organization responding to a tampered-product crisis. The company acted very quickly, spent tons of advertising money to warn and inform the public, and recalled practically all the Tylenol on every shelf throughout at least the continental U.S. Those steps earned Johnson & Johnson a lot of goodwill.

[@shawnmichaud4484]

I dont see how they could confidently say it was only even a few hundred. That's them saying "this guy did a few hundred". There's no way of knowing how long this has been going on or with how many people. I hope it's as little as a few hundred, but I'm very skeptical of that claim. This is too easy to do with very basic and cheap tools.

[@ronaldbourgeois1255]

I heard he’s been at it for 12 years.

[@MalevolentBite]

Who's the guy ?

[@leskernodle5880]

so your previous video ... where you blasted Automatic comics and others for showing exactly what was going on ..... was full of crap ... I think you owe Ryan an apology ...

[@burningwitchstudio3629]

Gauratee this has been done for years, thousands and thousands of tampered with slabs out there.

[@Vp-jt3vl]

Holy shit, with a heat gun! This is insane.

[@FilmBritt]

The heat is on... 😀

[@chrisojeda7377]

Hologram on back of the inner sleeve that matches the certification number. Now we wait to see "the list".

[@billyrod1980]

Man that’s a lot of effort to open, reseal, and switch out the books. I hope this person gets what’s coming to them. Good first step for CGC. Will be waiting for that list.

[@silloh888]

The problem is there is zero seller protection on ebay. Any nefarious buyer can now swap and claim fraud and get a refund. CGC guarantees only books suspected of being tampered with by this *ONE* individual? All current/future sales are now suspect.

[@tartuffethespry]

A lot of effort for a potential 5 figure profit? lol

[@evangraham532]

This is the only guy they have caught doing this. You know he can't be the only one.

[@johnnydropkicks]

I find it interesting that CGC said “the trust that we have built with our community sometimes makes us a target of bad actors.” So, it looks like they are blaming the trust that “they have built” as the problem; not the flaws that have been exposed with their reholdering and relabeling services. If they cared more about their customers and the integrity of their product than they cared about all of that easy reslabbing and relabeling money, these incidents would not have ever occurred.

[@mattbarnes4623]

They kinda have a point, though. Would anyone have bothered running this scam with PGX?

[@RonSM2112]

What a ridiculous statement. There is no similar company on Earth that provides more security around a given product than they absolutely HAVE to. And most are developed through trial-and-error and learning by experience. This includes the US Government for crying out loud. Why do you think $20 bills look different than they did 30 years ago? CGC is going to improve their products and processes and of course will pass those increased costs on. Until the next time someone finds a loophole. Caveat emptor still applies across the board.

[@johnnydropkicks]

@@RonSM2112 Okay. Calm down, buddy. Why does my opinion upset you so much? I feel that since CGC didn’t even bother to look at these books when they were reholdered and relabeled, the onus falls on them. This is how this scam worked. These books went through CGC’s hands *after* the scammer switched the books and sent them in to get reholdered and relabeled. CGC even updated some of the labels by printing “Mark Jewelers” or “Newsstand Edition” on them, despite not having those details on them when they were originally graded. I feel that you don’t know all of the details of this scam, but decided to talk down to me like a child and call my opinion “ridiculous.” Either that, or you’re a huge CGC fanboy.

[@johnnydropkicks]

@@mattbarnes4623 What are you referring to when you said, “They kinda have a point though?” Thanks.

[@mattbarnes4623]

@@johnnydropkicks That they're the company whose slab is most likely to be targeted due to the size of their market share, and that that is built on trust. There's a PR spin being put on it in the statement for sure, but they're not wrong about that.

[@DavidClark-vu3dw]

I told someone earlier this year that it was about time cgc introduce a new case so as to keep their business profits going. When their turn around times got really quick it meant submissions were extremely low. So "lets introduce a new case!". 😆

[@KeyKiller74]

A simple fix is to add the cert number on the back of the inner sleeve that way you know the cert numbers match.

[@deanosimitzes2730]

This was clearly real from the beginning, I couldn't believe you thought it wasn't true! At least now we have more clarity on what's happened.

[@gregparks1785]

Good on you for admitting your first video was jumping the gun a bit, but I understood you playing devil’s advocate. It will be interesting to see the follow up, like a lot of people have said I think at least a basic fix would be to put the number of the slab on the inner sleeve as well. Should be an interesting next few months following this. Great video!

[@florianneumann9441]

Cheers to rick, your friendly neighbourhood comicbook scientist

[@uFELLA]

The Immaculate Comics YT channel demonstrated how the slab could have been opened with heat. He did not prove you can crack a slab and reseal it with NO trace of alteration to the slab. He admits this in his video, which resulted in signs of tampering (even on the side opened with more care)! In other words, just remain vigilant and diligent in your inspection of slabs (which we all should be doing anyway after a purchase) and you should be fine. YT channels are blowing this out of proportion either intentionally (for page views) or recklessly/negligently by not evaluating that YT demonstration carefully for both what it shows and doesn't show. We should be judging the proof ourselves and not be misled like sheep. Anyway, because it still appears that a simple inspection of a slab in hand should show any tampering, I will continue my hunt for CGC books on my want list. Of course, CGC should endeavor to improve their slabs, like adding the cert# to the inner well, too. In the meantime, we CAN look out for ourselves a bit better.

[@user-op7pm6tx1j]

The cracks can be "fixed" too--look into headlight repair or windshield chip repair products. I can't say I can one-and-done it right now, but give me a dozen slabs and a month = I'll get one open, swap and re-seal it and you won't be able to tell. The idea that a slab means much of anything remains inherently flawed. You can't farm out knowing what you are buying folks.

[@DocReasonable]

The guy could have just used a butter knife to pry open the case instead of grinding the edge of that specialised tool....

[@jthomascruz4890]

So far CGC is saying the right things. Now we just have to see the follow through in the updating of their reholdering procedures as well as how they ultimately update the security of the slabs themselves. Of course they need to compensate those that were affected by this and prosecute the individual(s) responsible. One thing I am curious about is as I have noticed this is so far only affecting high census count books (i.e. ASM 252, ASM 300, Hulk 181 etc...) it makes sense that they would attempt this with high census count books as you can in effect bury them amongst so many others that are constantly being sold and resold, but you never know.

[@DemzWon1]

Wow just heated the corners and the comic slips right out

[@MattMatt77]

It seems like what cgc is going to be doing is that they're going to be refunding all the customers in finding additional problems with the single person and then they're going to go with all of that evidence and money and refund numbers to the direct person and file a lawsuit against them. That's what it seems like it seems like cgc knows exactly who it is and they're going to go directly after him. If the guy is smart he would stop buying gift cards now lol. But he is likely going to do jail time.

[@mikebernardino6826]

I believe 80% of the responsibility falls on CGC. As a leader in the industry, shouldn’t they be ahead of the curve and looking for fraud? Does this show that they are not looking at books if they get sent in for re-holder? It’s good that they said something but I hope they are looking within to solve there problems. Hell a new case should have been in the works a year ago, maybe they have been working on one.

[@DocReasonable]

It's 100% on CGC. If your bank gets hacked and you lose $30K, the bank owes you that money.

[@DocReasonable]

*Prediction:* CGC goes bankrupt in 2024 (from a combination of being sued, losing 99% of their business and having to do thousands of free regrades) and a new, competent company takes over, learning from CGC's many, many mistakes.

[@X.X.X.123]

Too many nerds on their knees for CGC I'm finding this amusing like this nerd here. TOOL should be embarrassed he has their shirt on. This nerd should stick to mulignan rap because he whines like them🤣

[@A_Heathen]

First thing I would do is make the grade label a tamper proof sticker the ones that rip a million times if you try to remove them instead of paper that way people can't swap the top labels out as easily

[@darthjarwood7943]

im not reholdering my collection...you have to prove the case has been tampered with...mine have all come straight from CGC so none of mine should be tampered with...with that being said you should always at least visually inspect the case you purchase and the comic inside best you can...sometimes you will see a 9,8 that has a bended corner or color rub from cgc that happens during the encasing part...that comic is no longer a 9.8 but it is in a case that says its a 9.8...look for yourself

[@kahnlives]

Unfortunately the slabs can’t be sonically sealed. The books need to breathe a little to help persevere them. I always thought bags and boards are the best option, but of course the major keys should be encapsulated.

[@ImmaculateComics]

Thanks for the kind words!

[@redhawk3982]

What do you use to hang those slabbed comics in the wall?

[@bloodwillrunthestreets5205]

How about a small wrap around seal at the bottom of each slab that splinters if removed?

[@Anotsoniceproduction]

Probably the best way to avoid being scammed they would have to engrave the serial number on the book itself preferably on the back……as far as the case goes CGC will definitely not change the case

[@andreasgoransson]

I’m no comics expert, but people actually believe this grading system is safe from forgery? Amazing, it’s just plastic with a number.

[@justiceforcomics32]

Great video and excellent explanation of the facts.

[@geralle]

And does the reholdering guarantee there is no change in the grade?

[@r.rodriguez4991]

It's not as if CGC didn't do enough to protect their customers. They did, but people always find a workaround. Everything of value is going to be counterfeited.

[@DocReasonable]

Cases that can easily be popped open with a cheap heat gun is NOT good customer protection.

[@r.rodriguez4991]

@@DocReasonable It's not easy though. You saw how many times the guy broke it before he was successful. And then he also needed a solvent to hade the evidence of the holder being tampered with. It's not like you can just pry it open and slap it back together.

[@DocReasonable]

But like he said, that was his first attempt. After a bit of practice he'd have it down pat. @@r.rodriguez4991

[@Caseshells123]

That heat is easy to do to get the inner well out I figured that out last year when a guy on eBay sent me a return on a cheap slabbed and replaced the comic with a well read copy. He did a terrible job but eBay paid him anyway lucky it was only $50. But I figured out how easy it was with heat how to pop that outter cover. The inner well needs the serial number etched into it so both the otter cover and the inner well will have both serial numbers and you can’t get scammed

[@NicolaiStig]

So true.. been so for years now

[@kyleklmondwa9042]

Someone went through THAT much trouble to scam you out of $50? LMAO...

[@vendora1]

thats how the greed monster works@@richardolney1822 plus the slab itself label included is no more than 5 bucks retail so people are making bank even on the shitslabs esp the grading card company

[@virtualrealityfitness283]

It’s prolly hundreds of thousands out there!

[@vendora1]

yup@@virtualrealityfitness283

[@Taqi616]

Flippers should mark CGC’s announcement and resurrection on the calendar and celebrate it like Christmas.

[@TheGMan366]

Well done sticky Goose very informative thank you much. 👍👊❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥

[@minnesotasportstalk]

Is this the video where you apologize for trashing on other creators for causing hysteria. Yep within 1 minute. Good for you.

[@YurrNext]

I've said this so many times. All they need to do is put RFID tags inside the sealed books. It's easy and only costs pennies.

[@bruss529]

That can absolutely be faked. RFID tags are not secure.

[@YurrNext]

@@bruss529 You would have to cut the book out of the inner sleeve to access it.

[@kyleklmondwa9042]

This scam was DISCOVERED using simple photographs, CGC needs to Re-grade every comic that is submitted for a relabel. And they need to compare the previous photographs. Then they need to use a NEW slab that can't be opened and resealed. PROBLEM solved (unless it was an Inside Job where the Graders are IN on the scam, then all bets are OFF at that point).

[@YurrNext]

@@kyleklmondwa9042 A quick scan of an RFID tag by CGC would instantly show that it's a different book. You could only remove that tag by cutting into the inner sleeve that the book is sealed in, and obviously that would be an immediate red flag. This could be implemented for so little cost.

[@MoneyManHolmes]

I agree. All reslabs needs to be reevaluated and reslabbed again with a special new label for free due to the failure in their process. Hopefully all prior reslabs had some sort of marker on the label to identify them.

[@stichhavoc88]

@stickygoose I like CGC’s response hits all the right notes here’s the issue though I’m willing to bet ALOT of money it’s more than hundreds potentially affected. As I’m sure they are investigating how long had this person/s been doing this con job before they were caught?

[@collectapaul]

They’ll probably turn the sonic welder up to 11 now

[@Asian_Connection]

I want to see people make the claim and see them honor it. What a joke.

[@stevenstreeter6235]

So glad I nave no comic tombs. However, the statement is a positive one for those who like this sort of 'thing.'

[@oldschoolgamer2414]

Want to REALLY lose your mind? Imagine this: Auction House puts up a $100,000 comic on auction. They PLANT "buyers" to bid up the comic. Don't think so? Think again.

[@panoz702]

What about lazer etching a qr code or serial number on the laminating that surround the comic and on the hard case. Make them matching codes that way each comic that is sealed matches the case its sealed in. Like a cars serial # to the registration or engine block. That seems like a simple fix moving forward...🤔

[@Migzjuni81]

Thank god I keep all my comics RAW lol

[@pk3739]

If you’re in the business of selling comics, I’d have to imagine that over time you’ll be pushed to re-holder all your comics to instill customer confidence. I also firmly believe newly reholdered slabs will sell for far more than an easily compromised slab. You’ll have multiple reasons to be forced to reholder. If it’s PC who cares. But for investment purposes where you want to maximize value it’s a no brainer.

[@HODL-Diamond-Hands]

they don't even have to resubmit it to re-hold.

[@LivePastHealthy]

Why cant they just make the tabs on each corner of the case have a breakable tab. If someone tries and spread the casing apart even by a millimeter the tabs break.

[@dirkaminimo4836]

I don’t think people realize that cgc actually looks for things like this. It’s not as bad as you think!

[@HJ-fr6ku]

Good video, they should etch the cert number to the innersleeve, same cases but now the cert number is attached to the book.

[@DocReasonable]

So, everyone's existing CGC inventory is now potentially suspect and therefore effectively worthless. Even if you submitted legit books yourself, nobody else knows that for a fact. OOPS!

[@matrix_comix]

Lol nah

[@tazblazing]

Relax..! just few dummies try to quick scam for tiny piece of bread... No biggie.. Honestly not even drop of sweat of this nonsense.. Great video

[@DocReasonable]

This story is even making mainstream news feeds now. You don't seem to understand the enormity of what's going on here. @@tazblazing

[@thenerdcomicbookco.est.1966]

Why are collectors surprised this has been going on for years i have personally returned several books that were tempered with the only quick solution is to put the label inside the vacuum sealed comic so were as you cant pull out the book and replace it with lower graded book.

[@pipedocrusso4371]

keep the same case just put a tape at the joint, cgc color, so you can see if it was cut

[@piratemousey]

Thanks for the info fella.

[@Cripp12]

I think the math is off. Not worth doing this with lower graded books. How many of the top graded books were switched.

[@briandeeter4415]

People need to look at Raw books and do their own grading and pay with the book is really valued at instead of paying cgc for something you cannot trust

[@virgilwagner6287]

Took long enough for the reply from them They had to make sure they say the right things hope they keep to there word.. people were saying all this and showing how to do it so they had to come out with the statement they did. They could have said we are aware of something going on and will be making a more statement at a little later date..

[@dovahchief3757]

Well it looks like CGC is gonna need some help from the masterminds at EGS on how to improve comic book slabs

[@21Million]

does the glue show up under black light?

[@stevenkuykendoll1884]

Early slabs had the comic and the label attached to one another in the inner well. No doubt will have to go back to that.

[@Pedro-lg9wz]

A few hundred comics!!!! Fk!!..... 😂😂😂. They have to engrave the plastic inner liner with a number or tamper seal that matches the label, otherwise is not CGC alone, is CBCS, PGX, etc... its all other companies that could get fk😅

[@briandeeter4415]

I think people need to look at Raw copies Page by Page do the wrong grading and pay up for a raw book instead of paying all the money for cgc is doing

[@philipfletcher4867]

CGC should simply pull up a clear image of the comic being resubmitted. And make a comparison. This would really help eliminate most problems on their end.

[@sinchman1]

You never answered my question are any of those books on your wall from your childhood what age and year you purchased them

[@bujindork]

Dudes in his 30s or early 40s how would those old comics be from his childhood? I can't own an ASM 129 because I didn't buy it myself as a kid?

[@comicbossone2411]

It was a scam, everyone knew it from the start. Beware of folk who collect primarily slabs and not comics. They have much to lose from this, their first instinct will be to protect their investment.

[@gearmonger8616]

A little bit of scapegoating there. Putting it ALL on the individual is trash!! When they follow through AND hold internal parties accountable - we can talk. That video from @immaculatecomics is pretty good, but still shows that someone(s) at CGC missed all that several hundred times? C'mon - ya'll

[@wolverinearoundtheworld]

Lol. CGC is fooling everyone with this statement. And all of you KZbinrs are eating it up. This is just like the PSA card trimming scandal. Nothing will change and people will still submit their books.

[@TacticalJ83]

Does anyone know who the eBay seller is? I'd like to see if I have purchased slabs from them.

[@dandelatorre1870]

CGC is a Billion Dollar plus company so it had to insure the community that it is taking all the appropriate steps to address this. This is what they should have said publicly with all the mistakes they have made over the last few years.

[@xboxgamer3389]

Two things I don’t like about the CGC statement and it could be nitpicking but 1. How do they know it’s a few hundred this seems to be only the target of Newsstands because the insert but Hulk-181 and ASM-129 have inserts and no barcodes I guess we’ll wait to see what books make that list 2.the target of bad actors for this particular incident fine but again for situations like the UF4 with added staples who were the bad actors breaking the community trust I don’t remember CGC ever firing anyone over that and how did your vigilance let additional staples get blue labels Everyone is excited about this statement but I feel like they’ve said nothing Also the seeking outside counsel to conduct a review of their process they never tell us what that process is so how will we ever know what they changed Because other KZbinrs have said it we can all assume what goes on at CGC but they don’t tell us what actually happens they just tell us enough to look good publicly how does a book encapsulated backwards or upside down leave quality control I think the statement is fine but I’m waiting for detailed breakdown of changes they could be working on some kind of new cases Also probably another nitpick but this is the same company that wants to charge if you reholder for newton rings CBCS doesn’t have Newton rings and they don’t want to solve that issue at CGC Not playing fanboy for a grading service I’m just saying if they cared about quality they would’ve found a way to eliminate Newton rings instead of justifying why they happen and why they don’t have to fix it for free when they do happen

[@Kal_elctibles]

This can be such an easy situation for CGC to avoid in the future, which sucks because it’s an obvious first way to scam their encapsulation process, so why didn’t they try to avoid this prior 🤦‍♂️

[@TonyMcfly1833]

all the people with bad comments on your videos are all soft. i find your channel pretty entertaining

[@dandelatorre1870]

Rather than go to the trouble or completely remaking the best case in the business, how about simply adding security tape, very much like EGS did with their first generation slabs.

[@thekidwiththekung-fugrip3347]

The bigger question which you could make a video is can other or newer companies capitalize on this scam with cgc supposedly being superior to them all…can the make a push to get a bigger piece of of the pie and get people to move to those companies due to low confidence in cgc security

[@DocReasonable]

Popcorn ready... let's go!

[@richardbehrle1496]

Wow!

[@mjs5050]

Time for them to use a different case / or they could laminate the comic and use a tamper proof sticker that stick to the the laminated comic to the plastic slab ! the moment people pull it out , the sticker will definitely be tore 😂

[@davetyndale1622]

Im thinking they have an inside guy, and are getting a bunch of empty slabs?

[@davidtorres4514]

They need to release the person's name and ebay accounts linked to the scammer. So more can be identified and shut down.

[@cardsfan5100]

Makes you relived that you never bought a bunch of bricks.

[@michaelstarr1285]

Slabbed comic prices are crashing and not moving on ebay

[@jasonhellens3657]

Funny, CGC does not guarantee really anything like grades or restoration. Why grade books through CGC? The issue at hand is that during re-holder they probably didn’t have two people inspect the book ensuring the book was authentic.They need to get rid of the re-holder process. What do you think?

[@kenlafevers7991]

they grtaded mine wrong by a 6.5 when a 7.0 is on sale on wbay that is so obviuos being worst consistensy is everything and they just screwed up

[@ccsportsfan7886]

we agree to agree

[@vinniwhitlock7080]

Proof that if you want to catch a criminal hire a smarter criminal lpl

[@TheMisfits7783]

NEED TAMPER PROOF SEALS ON ALL 4 SIDES

[@johnphipps3287]

Very bad for CGC collectors

[@juahnsonn]

Action figure collector use that technique to take parts of the figure out without damaging it.