Rise of Chinese science: A worry for the West?

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Five years ago, an article in The Economist famously asked this question: "Can China become a scientific superpower?" Just recently, that same magazine offered an answer, but appearing as another question with this title: "The rise of Chinese science, welcome or worrying?" What is the progress of China's scientific sector? What does it mean for the world and humanity? And finally, given the ongoing tensions between China and the U.S., should the two countries collaborate more or less?
Guests in this edition of Dialogue are Liu Ke, chair professor of Southern University of Science & Technology, dean of the School of Innovation & Entrepreneurship and dean of the Clean Energy Institute; Carl Fey, professor of strategy at BI Norwegian Business School in Oslo and affiliated scholar at the Boao Forum for Asia; Warwick Powell, senior fellow at the Taihe Institute; and Pascal Coppens, keynote speaker, author & China expert.
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[@manwingchi9156]

Don’t forget most science in the West are Chinese, The West doesn’t want you know. 😂😂😂😂

[@alicjagorecka3446]

Czytałam, że najlepsze wyniki w konkursach w USA w omawianych wyżej dziedzinach osiągają studenci pochodzący z Korei Południowej, Chin, Japonii, ci z krajów angosaskich na dalszych miejscach.

[@tuppenceworth5485]

In the early days, many Chinese scientists and engineers made valuable contributions towards atomic and rocket propulsion projects in US. Like their forbear predecessors who went to help build the railways, they were subjected to racism and many of the scientists and engineers were hounded from their jobs during the McCarthy era and has continued to this day.

[@horridohobbies]

I disagree with Carl Fey. I believe the Chinese are very creative and innovative. I can see this in all the science and technology reporting from China in recent years. Most of these developments have been truly jaw-dropping. And let's not forget all the Chinese scientists and engineers who were trained in China, then migrated to the USA to work. They contributed a lot to the US tech industry. Technology patents also reflect creativity and innovation. Last year, China was granted more tech patents than the USA and Japan combined!

[@monipenny408]

The funny thing is, we keep hearing western "China experts" predicting all sorts about China, spend hours debating about China collapse. Fact is, China doesn't care, it is not competing, it is simply working hard, pouring trillions into R&D, innovation and growth. U$ experts are great at projecting, talking but that's it, they have no evidence to back up their "greatness". They preached "freedom and democracy", yet are currently funding and supporting gazan geno side. No wonder their memory is so poor they don't have one, unlike Chinese student and Chinese people, they have longggggggg memories!

[@user-sf1nq9uj7p]

The decline in Science and Technology in the West compared to China has all been self-inflicted. This decline began around the end of the 1960s when studious students in STEM studies were derided by society and the community at large as "nerds" and "four-eyed book-worms" while those in the study of law subjects and involved in sports like basketball, baseball, grid-iron football, golf, tennis, etc were lauded and given prominence in society with huge financial rewards. Student loans also took a large toll on those taking up more costly STEM courses that took more number of years to complete than those in the Arts and Humanities (social studies, etc) to achieve a degree. People being people, the majority will always try to look for the easiest way out of a situation and if getting a degree in say, business management only takes 3 years while another course in STEM takes an extra year or two to complete with a lower chance in getting a high paying job, of course, going for an easier and shorter course with a greater chance in getting employment and repay that student loan would be the route to take. So, what happens is that the nation ends up with far more graduates in the arts and humanities such as law, economics, accountancy and business than in engineering, architecture, medicine, biotech, etc. In the US (the west), it looks like a preference for "brawns" has overtaken "brains" and we are seeing the result of this today.

[@TacticalMayo]

Oh you still have no idea how bad it's going to get.

[@ssuwandi3240]

There wasn't any decline but China bit the hands that helped them flourish .

[@user-ed9so2rb4k]

Seriously, EU over the past 2 decades had concentrated on football which must be the greatest generator of revenues and in USA, you have basket ball, American football, base ball, Fighting Club and lastly Woke-ism and certainly not the least important as the most productive sector; so why complain?

[@tweedy4sg]

@@ssuwandi3240 How ? You mean China's students should continue to stay behind or dumber than their teacher ? Is that how humanity should progress, hmm mσrσn ??

[@lordumas]

@@TacticalMayo You have no idea, period

[@begotten59]

Kudos to China 🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳🥇🥇🥇--👨🏽‍🦽🌴🦅☕️

[@unreliablenarrator6649]

I have to disagree with Professor Liu Ke on AI. China may be lagging by a few months on GenAI, but making rapid progress and also have some of the top innovators recognized in the world. Perhaps this is not his subject?

[@gryblk21]

Innovation only counts if the true benefits diffuse rapidly throughout society. If it just serves to line the pockets of monopolists, is it really innovation or just another overhyped capitalist scam? Just like the healthcare "innovations" in the USA.

[@len2063]

Still waiting for a great new Chinese innovations. They have made many improvements of western innovation. Implementation of innovation in the society is the real gamechanger and China have done very well.

[@leviandhiro3596]

Love from El Salvador 🇨🇳🇸🇻

[@MyVoice-bn1vj]

Great again don't back, science technology expand more again God bless China wisdom

[@selenium-es7hl]

Thanks bush for outlawing stem cell research...

[@hanhgoldman]

Which God and whose God? :) -

[@lowkatherine]

Knowledge is everywhere to those who learned, it doesn't belong to anyone

[@larrysherk]

We look upon all these opportunities as threats. How pitiful !

[@benparkinson8314]

And gosh don't make the mistake to see one being more important either creativity and repetitive practice.. in the west the latter was abandoned... seriously... it should be seen that the bet why forward is a harmonious agrigate of the various aspects that include creativity.. insight... repetitive practice learning/production

[@hasch5756]

Personal experience: I obtained my masters degree in mathematics at a German university and it still took me half a year and dozens of multiple-round applications to find a job, and then it was as a programmer rather than a mathematician. Even if you somehow manage to navigate the sprawling red tape rampant at Western universities, even if you are in the privileged position of not suffocating in student debt, the future of STEM students in the West is no longer guaranteed. This is unmistakably a product of the chronic lack of funding of universities, the EU might sometimes pour money into individual prestige projects, but the ordinary procedures of research and teaching apparently aren't glamorous to warrant a sufficient investment. I worked at the same university as a student tutor, and while this was very fun and a recommendable experience, it actually paid less than getting unemployment benefits; it is a job you cannot work as an employee because it would violate the labour laws. When universities cannot even afford to hire regular workers, you got yourself a recipe for scientific, technological, and cultural decline.

[@wynetsang]

Science and Civilisation in China (1954-present) is an ongoing series of books about the history of science and technology in China published by Cambridge University Press. It was initiated and edited by British historian Joseph Needham (1900-1995). China has several thousand years of tech experience while the West only has several hundred years since the Dark Age.

[@djibicisse]

So why are they playing catch up lol

[@willliam1420]

When an economy transitioned into finance as fuel, then is is near its end of life

[@benparkinson8314]

The commentator, Warwick Powell, has the very important contribution to emphasize the multidisciplinary/wholistic approach

[@biswanathmukherjee4622]

I follow Pascal on KZbin, where he offers an excellent series of informative and comparative discussions on Chinese research and development.

[@FrancoisEustache-ed6gd]

What the west worry is that China has adopted the policy of "The Progress of Science and Technologies for the Benefit of Mankind" and could seduce a lot of innovative minds in the west that are sick and tired of the policy of "The Progress of Science and Technologies for the Benefit of the Big Investors" that has dominated liberal capitalism economies for more than a century.

[@jazening3075]

BLESS MOTHERLAND, CHINA 10,000 YEARS & TEAM MOTHERLAND, CHINA ALL THE WAY AND BEYOND FOREVER!👍🙏🇨🇳👨‍🎓👩‍🎓🐲🐼☯️☮️🌏‼️

[@TacticalMayo]

USA 🇺🇲 USA 🇺🇲 USA 🇺🇲

[@user-ye2lf4zf9o]

Necessity is the mother of all invention. Remember?

[@urimtefiki226]

Only the mediocrity calls it AI.

[@horridohobbies]

Even if China is behind the USA in AI, it's not that far behind. And comparing China only to the USA is misleading. What about the rest of the world (Canada, UK, France, Germany, Japan, etc.)? I'm certain China surpasses those countries.

[@luongtam9087]

A thousand-mile journey starts with a first step. The idea is cheap, to making an idea happen is the challenge. To make an idea happen, it needs money, support, and focus. The completions will drive the creativity. And small business is creative engine

[@parttimethinker7611]

China was decades behind the U.S. that no one in the us even bothered to check on the Chinese’s scientific progress. No one should be surprised of the Chinese scientists’ progressing. That’s what education is for, to catch up with society and our peers. That’s the quality education American universities are good at. The Chinese students will use whatever at his or her disposal to learn as much as he could in the shortest possible time. Ai just means the programming are more complex and requires more memorization. People who focus on using AI are people of lessor capabilities. Eventually, AI will commands the world…unless we have geniuses who remember in details how to rewrite the AI codes. Time never wait for anyone so as speak. Education is an opportunity in life, that no one should squander their opportunities. It’s not surprising for me to see people taking interest in learning. It however surprised me that why some folk choose not to make full use of their learning, an opportunity of a life time. If that’s the ways of the people of a country behaved, then I’m deeply afraid for that country’s future.

[@JIANGTG]

1. The West should not worry about the rise of Chinese science. They should ponder why China has made tremendous progress in the arena and find ways to catch up .... 2. China has firm determination to strive in all areas. For example, its space exploration has a team of 300,000 talents ..

[@horridohobbies]

The state of US education up to the college level is very poor. It has been declining for decades. US students have been failing according to many metrics. Even the college level is not particularly impressive, except for the top universities like MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Caltech, Carnegie-Mellon, Princeton, etc. The USA has thousands of colleges and universities. Do they all produce top-notch talent? I don't think so.

[@Crescendotron]

Great

[@huanghermann5207]

Why a worry for the West? It is good for the whole humanity.

[@elenaleclerc6410]

Mr. Liu Ke had no problem to mention Elon musk’s compagnies as well as Nvidia, Google, Microsoft etc.., however, he had to almost apologize for mentioning Huawei… China needs to invest more in Basic Sciences research and the funding has to come from both the government and private sectors. Further, in the fields of education especially in elementary and secondary schools, young students should have science-related education and hands-on experimentation classes. There shall be “Technological Innovation” competition nationwide annually so talents can be detected from all walks of life especially among rural population. The speaker from Oslo still has an outdated perception of China like most Europeans or Americans do because they just repeat informations circulated in their own countries’ mainstream press. On the other hand, if China does not innovate, why would the West be so anxiously obsessed with sanctioning and sabotaging China’s technological and economic advancements ? Pascal from Belgium is probably one of the few Europeans who has a quite realistic view of China.

[@benparkinson8314]

I think that for the Asian cultural background participants of this discussion be they commentator or be they viewers might consider more centrally/actively to develop such a cultural construct that seeks out and fosters the types of persons/personalities that can offer the sort of creativity wanted/ like/benifit from and also allow/promote a space for persons who are often creative and critical. Critical in that they might be some of the most oppositional to the cultural norms and even offer significant problems because of their personal/culrural/behavioural example to the rest of society not being very good in some ways for some perspectives. I think perhaps promotion of public modesty and personal privacy as a harmonizing of opposites and a valued social status will be helpful framework to develope a very creative class with Chinese(Asian) characteristics.. leader.. warrior.. craftsman.. farmer.. artist.. Scientist.. and or others to make a new set of Honourable professions that will suit the crafting of the new era(s). For every one/thing a good place.. for every one/place a good thing .

[@jgwizo]

I think the comment is probably refuse that CHINA lags in innovation whereas western education trains people in compliance and this is reflected in the dichotomy approach. The biggest sign of compliance logic is the use of chips restrictions. Innovations requires people to always start from scratch such as the ASML debate. Continuous improvement is shown as erroneously assumed as innovations.

[@socialismdeclassified]

great work China, Best country in the world

[@TacticalMayo]

LOL 🤣

[@fzmoifzmoi2575]

​​@@TacticalMayoLaughing in a tent city with zombies roaming around is imbecilic.😉

[@harbinger6562]

Good afternoon ❤️🇨🇳🇦🇺🇳🇿🦾😇👋🕊️

[@huhwhatjason]

Innovation instead of "practical tech" is a product of extra leisure time. China has been and still is fighting to uplift its people so that they enjoy living standards comparable to developed countries, so it naturally gravitates towards projects which either have practical outcomes or are sure bets because its resources, including talents, are limited. Citizens of the collective West, being able to leech off of global wealth via colonialism and neo-colonialism, have plenty of leisure time to engage in all sorts of blue sky projects. Once again, it comes back down to wealth distribution, to material causes.

[@Glenn_Ratcliffe]

CB

[@peaceleader7315]

Science, technology, space industries and innovation as general should be our human species interconnected efforts as species based ambitions.. and shouldn't be placed upon the hands of intellectual property.. Hmmmm for the betterment and prosperity for mankind.. Just like anything else actually.

[@hanhgoldman]

Agreed totally. Please go tell the West :)

[@saellenx3528]

That cant happen, they have to have monopoly on everything so that they can blackmail you. As of late America has a lot national security concerns and i think those are gonna increase.

[@peaceleader7315]

I know, I know..hmmmm .. I guess peace = less profit 📈 Durability = less profit 📈 Simplicity = less profit 📈 Hmmmm.. genuine innovation 💡 can't work properly under capitalistic economic conditions 😑.. maybe one day evolution would dictate human species to separate from the system of money as reward system, but prestige of inner cognitive mindset that be regarded as value for society and therefore humanity as a whole when means of our humanely necessities as means of production are placed upon our technical innovation 😉.

[@harriemeeuwis978]

Since Chinese students and scientist are now confronted with racism in the US, the US will no longer be able to attract Chinese top talents. That will be a severe disadvantage because China produces far more STEM graduates than the US or Europe or any orher country. If their quality is good enough China eill soon outpace the US in every technical field. You can already see the great difference e.g. in space exploration. China succeeds, the US stumbles regardless the vast amount of money they put into it.

[@postman29]

postman

[@user-yw5hm4fy2i]

This comment pertaining to Mr. Cow Failed (?? Spellings), according to U, Chinese educations were not creative and based solely on memorization🙄😏..Am I rightly stated?🤔?..FYI, my elementary educations weren't from USA and because of that at the ends of 2nd grades, the multiplication tablets from 2 to 9, I wouldn't forget to this day's after more than 50+ years youngest..May I challenged U that if the basic of alphabets as 🔤🔠 were not required for young students to memorize, how on Earth can they compose words, sentences and please don't mentioned furthermore beyond sentences==jailed time's😬😓..😂😅..Same token with # 🔢, if these kids like the majority of American's politicians in DC whoever rely on HEAVILY on smartphones for ➗️❌️➖️ and ➕️, what would they do if there is shortest of ⚡️energy ⚡️==dead ☠️ of "battery charges" availabilities which meant those smartphones are NOTHINGS more than the DUMBFOUNDED cell mates 😆😁..These R FACTS WELL-KNOWN around the World's not FICTIONAL STATEMENTS..Period..

[@wdp7128]

Sciences has no ethnicity.. Except for TCM. 😂😂😂😂😂

[@level1selamat155]

Long way to go 😁

[@cam35mm]

for you to reach the top of the bell curve? quite the achievement. keep plugging along...one day

[@Yuzhen1]

I dunno, I think China’s recent cure for diabetes is pretty good for the world…

[@Wiznuke]

Professor Liu Ke is spot on the areas which the US has a huge lead driving technology and inovation.. Microsoft, Nvidia, Intel, Google, meta. boeing etc.. are world wide companies... china is still far behind in those areas, domestic market is different from world market...

[@patrolmanracv]

hate to tell you but China leads in all the world sciences ......the US is far behind ...

[@JusticeNDOU]

what is this guy talking about chinese people where the innovators in western civilization so he wants to cleaim the west is creative in which way

[@TacticalMayo]

The US and the West are the ones that bring the world into modernity. China has not invented anything in 300 years 🤣

[@ssuwandi3240]

Amiunt of budget and project aren't the denominator of better science

[@philoso377]

Ancient Chinese people had to be innovative and creative under an authoritative ruler, during which each ruler owns everything people have and may have. The only way to climb the social ladder is to learn the language necessary to be an official in order to convey authority. Memorization was a ticket to move up. That demotes innovation and creativities, and promote learn but think. As a world factory, it benefits from workers who learn but think. (Giving up thinking to the west?) Therefore the schooling system was influenced to promote students who learn more but think. Thinking has been a luxurious item own by the west. Confucius said, those who : Learn but think - lost Think but learn - jeopardy Lets say do learn and think.

[@canismajoris3910]

Professor Liu Ke's criticism are more "whiny" than constructive. Shallow and borderline weird.

[@stevebeschakis9775]

Chinese science. Jumbo shrimp. hahaha

[@jpsion]

no. intellectual property rigHts within asia is abysmal. chinese wuality is still piss poor.

[@AJ77724]

Please free Tibet 😢🙌

[@ensteffo]

It was freed many decades ago.

[@AJ77724]

@@ensteffo china occupied Tibet 🥺😥

[@enkianu9337]

If you need to know facts about Tibet, read this book: The Struggle for Modern Tibet by Melvyn Goldstein

[@urimtefiki226]

China you have my algorithm which I sent to Chinese Embassy in Skopje and I had a meeting there and since then no answer, but you make production without my permission. I know one thief which is well known around the world but you are the same since you are not paying royalties to me.

[@tuppenceworth5485]

Troll alert!

[@Aloh-od3ef]

Like the robot dog that keeps falling over. Or the AI with the graphics from a 10 year old video game. Or the quantum computer that never achieved anything. Or how china copied the west in space. What about the super 5G chip that china can’t make. Yes the should be ready….. To laugh at china 😂

[@temidayoosun6746]

Cry today, cry tomorrow once you clear your eyes you will see why China is winning.

[@jason_sleek]

@@temidayoosun6746these people never know weytin go soon hit them. 😭 People that will soon achieve lunar sample recovery from the far side of the moon. The trash talk na just cope mechanisms. And that is gonna hurt real bad when it’s now obvious that they can’t do anything at all anymore about the nation’s rise.

[@jason_sleek]

lol! You just said total rubbish. The robot dog program is primarily a military attribute. And if you think they’d display the real stuff to you off of the actual battlefield, you’re the biggest clown. You’re actually downplaying China’s AI prowess????!! 😭😭💀💀 They “copied” the west in space?? Dude they’re the ONLY country that owns their own independent space station! 5G??? Chinese 5G quality and coverage SURPASSES any other statistic that anywhere else on earth can boast of. Happy coping. 🫶🏾

[@HKChineseCanadian]

He who laughs first, laughs last. China is the clear winner.

[@glumour3081]

😂😂😂 copy ? Tell that to the Chinese colonialists... where were their discoveries before they colonized China

[@leoxing7697]

Chinese people are just as CREATIVE AS ANYONE AND MORE!!!

[@cutbaitgofishing]

More, best of minds in western countries are of asian descent.

[@conradtrinh6470]

But Chinese system is dumb outdated bad like Chinese writing system make Chinese so shy scare square silent stiff sttupid slow and small with small slantt eye.

[@TituIshtiaque]

In coming 10 years young populations growth will be the main issue for china China should not underestimate this issue like Japan South Korea