Chaco Canyon: $3,000,000 government project bungled

[@ezragonzalez8936]

Update .... the visitor center is up and running complete with its artifact exhibitions went there last month and its great gift shop everything well laid out and artifacts keep being rotated to showcase new ones .. its also a very nice looking building.. had a rough start but it turned out well in the end!

[@jackarnold7887]

Very happy to hear, we will visit in 2 weeks. Thanks for the update!

[@combridge1]

Actually no artifacts there at all.

[@thomaswayneward]

Turned out well; get serious.

[@gail-sw9xg]

If access is made easy Chaco Canyon will suffer the same fate as other National parks which have been inundated by uncontrolled tourism. Mountains of trash, damaged structures, graffitti everywhere, and the loss of solitude which make the Chaco experience so sublime.

[@johnwren3976]

Not likely. The road to Chaco from Nageeze is so badly washboarded that I had to turn my RV around lest it fall apart. I think some fillings were loosened. 😖🥴

[@whereRbearsTeeth]

Agree 100%. Hopefully it stays this way

[@briggs5534]

many decades ago, over a period of a couple of years, i spent several weeks camping at Chaco. i was often completely on my own for days at a time. there were no facilities of any kind. the ranger showed up a few times a week to collect the couple of dollars that were the camping fee. i gloried in the solitude, the landscape and the spirit of the once heavily occupied spaces. the desert lizards, the occasional rattlesnake and the golden eagle that flew above me on my walks down the central wash all remain strong visions in my memory. that it was hard to get to made it the best of four corners places...

[@stealthfighter2923]

Artifacts that survived outside through winters and summers of a thousand years can’t survive a properly air conditioned room? Stupid.

[@conniead5206]

The artifacts were buried under feet of dirt. While some dirts are corrosive others preserve. Less oxygen gets to them and far less fluctuations in temperatures. Paleo anthropologists running around in Northeast Africa find tiny bits of human remains hundreds of thousands of years old that had been preserved while buried but are decomposing because water and wind erosion are destructive. Plus animals step on them and the occasional human herder picks up something and tosses it at their goats to get them moving. Outdoor furniture does not last anywhere near as long as indoor furniture made of the same materials. Oh, in Egypt they are making duplicate interiors of tombs because the real ones are suffering from corrosion caused by being open and human bodies. They plan to close the real ones they want to preserve the most to everybody except researchers and preservation staff.

[@edpreston1635]

Then put the artifacts in sealed cases where oxygen and humidity are constant. Only a goverment bureaucrat would look for the most expensive solution. Bottom line: nothing lasts forever, and many native people find attempts to preserve these things offensive. I've heard Hopi elders say exactly that.

[@01Lenda]

​@@conniead5206 Yes, because artifacts need to be placed in drawers, never to see the light of day again. That is what is best. Only the greedy eyes of those in charge get to see. How that works.

[@whereRbearsTeeth]

You are clueless

[@jimbojiveable]

why are we blaming the parks dept when this clearly sounds like bad engineering, poor installation, and or faulty equipment. the entities that profited from this project are the ones who need to take care of this not the taxpayer.

[@themillsclan]

I totally agree. I believe the problem could be found if you ever watched or read the book, "All the King's Men." The public needs a building. A politician or public administrator arranges to collect extra tax money and get a general contractor to make it happen. Palms are greased, intentional mistakes are made ... and wallah! you have a fiasco.

[@conniead5206]

The Parks Department provided the criteria for architects and construction firms to bid on. They chose the winning bid. They either didn’t provided the right criteria for building a real museum rather than a visitor center or didn’t have a consultant from an art museum look at the plans with them. In general, park visitor centers are not built to preserve ancient artifacts. At least not the ones I have been in. Old settler, miner, and cowboy stuff. Stuffed animals, birds, and reptiles. Rocks. At least in the Southwest. This is a custom build for a customer. Client tells them what they require. The customer approves the plans. When the contractor doesn’t build what meets the criteria and according to the site plans, the customer provided they usually have recourse. Seems something the Parks Department didn’t do right is at the core of the problem. Did they have a consultant from a museum and a consultant that maintains museum’s more rigidly controlled climates go over things with them before they approved the plans? Their mindset was on “visitor center” instead of museum and visitor center.

[@jool5941]

Parks department hires the companies. This is what happens when they go with the cheapest bid instead of the best person for the job.

[@davidmurphy6884]

This is why contractors take insurance out for projects. I would suggest taking the issue up with the contractor who failed to deliver on the construction project.

[@kenhetherington756]

The architects, builders and subcontractors should be 100% responsible for this.

[@NorthwestAdventurerNWA]

I’m glad I watched this broadcast, as it tells a clear backstory of how a Government agency can carelessly muck things up. Thanks

[@thomaswayneward]

The Tetons had a wonderful museum, but the park service closed it down. Now they want to build a new visitor center to employ the park service folks, while reducing the camping area with the new visitor center. They are constantly closing; rest rooms, trails, camping areas, filling stations, just about anything that the visitors use. Instead of building new campgrounds, they started a reservations system to control the inflow of the campgrounds. When the park was built the population of the US was much smaller than it is today. There is plenty of room for new campgrounds, and I don't mean the idiotic campgrounds like at parts of Yosemite, where you can barely open the door of your camping vehicle, without bumping your neighbor.

[@blitztim6416]

Those roads are rough. We came in from the south and left thru the north. Both roads were terrible. But it is worth a visit.

[@ericswain4177]

Don't know why everyone is so surprised ! this sort of thing goes on all the time. When it comes to the government, the people, and money.

[@pibba]

I was there a few weeks ago - the building still doesn't have internet service. You'll need a paper copy of you reservation.

[@GinAndBuccos]

How was the trip? The modern construction failure speaks to what a logistical achievement it must have been to build those structures 1000 years ago

[@zinnium]

This is actually an easy fix. You simply run a small dedicated unit just for the displays cases. And keep them on positive pressure. That can probably get done for 10-20k. You don't need a major unit. A mini-split size unit would fix it. Ducting wouldn't be hard too as you simply drop individual ducks like 4" down to each case.

[@combridge1]

What? A fantastic common sense solution? In the National Park Service? In Chaco Canyon government?? Are you crazy?! 😁

[@wildsmooth9201]

These artifact belong to us not the Government. These artifacts should not be underground in Government vaults. Such BS.

[@vickywhitesell7482]

Follow the $$$$$$, someone's embezzling millions!! Who is responsible for these god awful projects that cost millions???!!!

[@lucerofam5]

Someone’s cousin made out like a bandit #New MexicoWay

[@wadesmith7041]

What are huge Park Service blender why isn't the HVAC company held responsible

[@conniead5206]

They likely provided the HVAC required in the plans made to meet the requirements the Parks Department wanted. I figure the shit isn’t rolling downhill because the Parks Department screwed up from the start.

[@fishman245]

I visited Chaco in 2018. No artifacts were on display. But the AC worked 👍

[@KeithofRoss]

Oh, Lord, a private business would simply call TLC in Albuquerque and they will have someone out there TOMORROW, and would diagnose, repair and or replace it! Government....

[@brumleytown1882]

It was the same at Mesa Verde years ago. A very sad museum there.

[@thomaswayneward]

What people don't realize is the parks are run for the employees, not the visitors. Mesa Verde and the Tetons are a good example. Probably the best screw up is the South side of the Grand Canyon. It is a tourist spot for employees. Huge amount of buildings and amenities for employees and a small cramped camp ground.

[@muffs55mercury61]

I just stumbled onto these KRQE investigation videos. Wow seems New Mexico sure wastes a lot of money and corruption runs high. Never knew about any of this. I thought my former home state of Arizona was worse.

[@frankmckinnis]

I think, possibly, the investigation may have missed out one one critical aspect. While I don't know for certain, it only takes one question to verify if this aspect was in play. The question surrounds parties involved. Was the General Services Administration (GSA) responsible for the undertaking and supervision of the project? If they were, then it is simply a waste of time to ask the lower level employees who had no contractual oversight on the project what went wrong. The second question, is where are the HVAC design specs? The document speaks for its self. If the specs are correct then the only person to interview is the Regional Director for GSA. In the end, the Parks service can demand what they want, but GSA will ultimately decide what will be done. At least that is my personal experience.

[@creepyoldhouseexplorersclub]

FiX the road to it!!! 🤬

[@kriskat90]

They need to fix the road to Chaco! 23 miles on one of the worst dirt roads I have ever travelled on! I was shocked that a road to a National Park was in such disrepair!

[@clearsig]

Maybe it's a good thing that the roads are so rough. Easier access might lead to overuse of the park, which protects very delicate and easily damaged cultural artifacts.

[@jool5941]

That’s a good thing. Do you really want teenagers going there?

[@1680-z9g]

Almost all Native artifacts are in Museums thought the United states and in Europe, France, London.

[@trouble9939]

How would you all like it if we natives dug your ancestors graves and stole their jewelry? Come with respect you're on Native American land.

[@jordanhicks5131]

Lmao no, there are millions and millions of artifacts still out there where they were left or dropped.

[@Chris-re3xr]

@Gary Allen where did you get that info ??

[@johnwren3976]

Let's see, we need specifuc environmental conditions to display items that were buried nearby in the desert sand & subject to sun, heat, cold and rain & snow for over a thousand years? 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@hscollier]

OxyMORON: Governmental efficiency.

[@marty8726]

Because it’s the government

[@39FORTYWATER]

We call them Tomb Raiders

[@jool5941]

How are we supposed to learn about the past?

[@PrimitiveLifeways]

Can anyone answer if there are artifacts on display? I have a feeling it’s the Tribes that are not allowing the display because of religious beliefs

[@evibourne4012]

I just wished they would improve the road leading to Chaco Canyon! I thought my car was going to come undone on the miles of washboard road!

[@whereRbearsTeeth]

It should be left the way it is. Tourism will end up ruining this significant archeological treasure.

[@Hey_its_Koda]

Cant NM get one thing right? This is embarassing. Should build a paved road.

[@OG1919]

I wonder and must ask: where did they get all their water for their settlement? Complaints without solutions don't count for much in my book.

[@Sphere723]

I would just like the point out that it seems a little silly to worry about having too little AC to house clay pottery and stone tools which survived thousands of years in the desert. Sounds like a museum requirement which doesn't actually make any sense in this situation but nobody has the balls to say the obvious.

[@davidclark291]

WE’RE THE GOVERNMENT AND WE’RE HERE TO HELP. ANOTHER PORK BARREL PROJECT.

[@michaeldublg]

WAIT!? The blunder is the climate controlled system and not the fact that all the artifacts are under the control and ownership of everybody else BUT the state and Community the artifacts came from?? .... Lol.. umm, ok.

[@wadesmith7041]

I know the parks people are not responsible for that but they should make the contractor responsible seems like a huge bungle to me

[@WesternStarproductions]

What are they hiding

[@Fossilsunleashed]

history

[@chipgrissom]

They are hiding embezzlement, someone or ones have made out well. And continue to suck the taxpayer dry. But no one is to blame or is held accountable. Hey NM, call your Govenor out!

[@steveled938]

Typical bureaucrats!

[@AlyxBowen]

Who was the contractor for this project? That is what this investigation should be following. The “bungle” was the contractors. They took taxpayer money and split.

[@fantonio85021]

They should give the artifacts back to the indigenous peoples in the area. Hopi and Zuni have been asking for this for years. Grave robbers aka museums.

[@pocoloco5160]

Money all gone! That's the way the white man laughs! BWAH HA HA HA

[@MrJm323]

Whose money was it?

[@pocoloco5160]

@@MrJm323 The taxpayers.

[@chemech]

This was a project management flub, coupled with some academic politics from the various holders of the collected artifacts. The NPS should have had a project team of a few people to manage their end as the customer, and to oversee the activities of the prime/general contractor, who should have been providing project management services to ensure that the project specifications were followed, along with schedule and budget by the contractor and all sub-contractors. The HVAC load calculations might be complicated by the lack of weather data for the remote location - it depends on whether the NPS / Dept. of the Interior was recording and reporting weather data, and if it got reported to NOAA to be digested into usable form... but, other than solar load and degree day6s, the arid location shouldn't present any undue design difficulties. So, the HVAC design engineer needed to have a valid working specification and weather data on which to base their design. Human occupancy numbers for the room in question should have been estimated and projected for the future by the NPS... people sweat & breathe, and that adds humidity to the air in the space, in addition to their body heat. Again, nothing too difficult for an HVAC engineer to design and specify a system using ASHRAE guidelines... The next question is which contractor won the award to supply and install the HVAC system, and how were they qualified by the project management? And, how was their performance monitored and controlled by the general contractor and thus the NPS? It was a government contract, and those tend to go sideways at a higher rate than private sector projects, but this should not be an irredeemable situation, barring problems with the client and the location.

[@chemech]

Also, it's been 2.5 years... did they ever fix the AC system?

[@Riverrockphotos]

It is worth the drive to see this. But they could improve the dirt road a bit.

[@tazerface8638]

Has this been reminded yet?

[@hadoomasta2238]

Did anyone heard of the ancient arrow project? And the wingmakers chambers? Could this have anything todo ewith it?

[@hadoomasta2238]

@@maurogandvalmxborgh5971 no comprende

[@maurogandvalmxborgh5971]

@@hadoomasta2238 I'm Italian not Spanish :) anyway I'll do a translation with google trad

[@WasBlind_NowISee]

A few people ate good that day and the many rest will have to endure hardships for as long as it will take to run its course…

[@ScottPigeon]

In 2024 the cases are still empty and the ceiling still looks like that.

[@stargroves14]

They could have paved the road for all that money!

[@harperwelch5147]

Who was in charge of the National Parks System in this time period? That's the person responsible for this huge mistake. Hold them responsible and accountable for failing to design and execute a suitable facility.

[@sablechicken]

Interesting that no one knows anything, but we know we went to Mar.

[@conniead5206]

We didn’t go to Mars. We sent robots. That has nothing to do with this. Experts in one field usually don’t know much about a heck of a lot of other fields. You have people very knowledgeable about some things deciding to have something built for things that had requirements they didn’t understand. I am assuming the architect and contractors did their jobs according to the criteria they had been provided. I know the Parks Department had to approve the plans. Otherwise they would be talking about them in this video. They would have had recourse against whoever screwed up. If shit can roll farther down the hill they give it a push.

[@TaterNoggin]

New Mexico has to be the most poorly run state

[@michaeltaylor4984]

Corruption, my friend.

[@chipgrissom]

Lol, take a closer look at Colorado!

[@pinonnut]

They cut down the trees and the rains went away. Visitors center is just a way to put cash in pockets. Hire A students at park service and get A +results

Is efficient proper planning really that difficult? They need to focus on getting the road to Chaco paved.

[@malcolmallen3687]

Why oh why can't things not be done right... Woefully inadequate HVAC system... No budget to pave the road... Another prime example of incompetence in a government entity... So sad... We can do better than this folks.

[@MrJames6891]

Sounds like some yahoo in new york is pulling the strings

[@genewhisler5896]

THIS IS SO SAD, ITS NOT RIGHT, WE CAN FIX THIS,,, LETS FIX THIS, THESE ARTIFACTS NEED TO BE HOME.... WHOS WITH ME?

[@genewhisler5896]

THIS IS NOT IN REGARDS TO A MUESUM. THIS IS TO BRING THE ARTIFACTS BACK AND HAVE THEM AVAILIBLE TO THE NATIVES....

[@conniead5206]

Built the visitor center you really wanted to be a museum practically on the ancient site. Not particularly bright. Humans are destructive when you let them lose. You needed it to generate money? You could have built a proper museum in the nearest city. Only guided tours of the site for the intrepid. A small facility to provide bathrooms and water only open when the guides bring in a group. No packed food or bottled drinks allowed unless they are the more expensive ones people own that they reuse for years. Have to limit their human waste. Would be nice to have sheep dogs keep any from wondering off or picking up “souvenirs”. Parts of the site will disappear. Charge to enter the museum part of the building and charge to take the tour bus. You really don’t want people to drive there on their own. Sooner or later off roaders will go off the roads. I think it is best to totally remove the building. Cut our losses.

[@genewhisler5896]

YES, I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE.....

[@roberttrout3588]

Let me take a stab at how that HVAC bid was awarded, if you’re going to do investigative reporting, you need to follow that key thread of cause and effect, otherwise it’s just complaining and emotional gossip. Who was the contractor and why were they awarded the bid on the HVAC system?

[@Sphere723]

That's the only real story here. I am sure the Park Service didn't design the HVAC system. In most states with a project this size it would be done by a design professional would do drawings and specs and it would get bid out to mechanical contractors. Sounds like it was simply under-designed, in which case it the fix would be paid for out of the designers error's and omissions insurance.

[@conniead5206]

If the Parks Department had provided an accurate list of the requirements for the museum part of the building to the architect. A Visitor Center is entirely different from something that needs to have rigid climate control. They all think of it as a Visitor Center rather than a the equivalent of an Art Museum. He needs to see if he can get copies of the documents and approved plans before going to the contractors.

[@benjaminlorenzo4950]

Why did White men have to take we asked Native Americans just leave things alone because it has to go back into the ground into the sand . And one more thing why isn't there Native American people taking care of that site and also the museum they are more informative mainly the Hopi and Zuni and I'm pretty sure there are capable folks there that can curate give the right information and take care of that place because that's where us Pueblo people come from.😪

[@otisarmyalso]

Only fed guv can really blow n throw $$$$

[@harperwelch5147]

It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't a Trump appointee who bungled this project.

[@mikek9488]

Construction began in 2011, so likely an Obama or Bush appointee. Not that it matters, government has been messing stuff up and wasting money for a very long time.

[@kendallhenry7062]

This means war...

[@ckjamn]

Yeah, Nah, I am not down with grave robbing.

[@TheYammerHammer]

bummer

[@MAGIKMARTIAN9526]

see who gave gave those people back in the day the right to go excavate and claim that stuff it's they did, no different it's no different a person goes out now and find something they cant keep it and turn it in or somthing ,

[@MrJm323]

The same civilization that gave you electricity, running water, and the internet.

[@MAGIKMARTIAN9526]

@@MrJm323 excavations of tombs is still grave-robbing I don't care what you call it or who does it is grave-robbing

[@cliffyj5071]

@@MAGIKMARTIAN9526 well I guess you should put some cool shit in your freaking coffin so in a couple hundred years they can be talking about you!!

[@MAGIKMARTIAN9526]

@@cliffyj5071 I think you misunderstood what what I meant I don't think they should be quote Excavating it's grave-robbing I don't care who does it official or amateur

[@cliffyj5071]

@@MAGIKMARTIAN9526 so Anthropologie is grave robbing??!!

[@deedeewinfrey3181]

Government waste.

[@terrys824]

I visited Chaco Canyon and am very disappointed. First of all if you come in from the north, you face 19 miles of the worst road in the country. From the south is only 5 miles much like coming from south. There needs to be better roads into the park. Second is what has been done is an atrocity. These artifacts need to be returned and the government needs to stop raping the people when it comes to the ancient people of this and all sites discovered.

[@descendantFromHopi]

Little bitchboi can't handle a washboard road, waaahh waaah

[@Fossilsunleashed]

i would say its stolen especially if they are hidden and ya cant leave like a dozen or something wow. dont count on any judge to do whats right $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[@mikesch7672]

Seems like you could just open the windows, seeing that those artifacts spent over a thousand years outside already.

[@JosephAllen]

Maybe build a road first?

[@trouble9939]

Just leave the ruins alone, have respect.

[@jg1503]

the Anasazi already built roads leading to here. Leave it at that. This place is beautiful and mysterious building a road will just trash the place .

[@naarvmaan]

Thank You thank you

[@merleyazzilla3009]

artifact robbers!

[@kylemarshall2932]

WTH

[@georglimiux677]

Looks like a scam.

[@Simonjose7258]

Give Billionaires another Tax break. I'm sure they'll save it for us. That's the American way.

[@robertscrimger6044]

An expert is a BS artist that convinces other to believe they are capable of stuff they are not. A scientist or an engineer will look at a goal, design mechanisms to reach that goal. Don’t hire an expert to do what has not been done before in a remote location - they can’t be experts.