The lost chokes of Judo (Shime Waza principles)

[@fernandohsantos]

This kind of discussion arises a concern I've always had: how to preserve this immense hall of Judo Ne Waza techniques? Kodokan uses generic names for waza, and that's scientifically correct, but there are so many variations, with so many ways to get there, that's likely that they will eventually be lost if not accordingly registered for day-to-day practice in the standard curriculum. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu does this quite well, with its lots of different drills. Perhaps it's time for creating new Ne Waza katas for shime, kansetsu and osaekomi, including techniques now forbidden in competition such as leg locks, and so on. As well as for Tachi Waza, it would be very interesting to create some sort of catalogue registering the throw variations, such as Morote, Eri, Kata Eri and reverse Seoi Nage; as a subdivision of the main technique nomenclature. That would be nice material for future training and research.

[@Chadi]

That's needed

[@trinidadraj152]

It reminds me of something Kimura said in his retirement. 'In today's judo I just can't think that judoka are doing serious technical research.'

[@Chadi]

Brilliant

[@ignitionfrn2223]

2:00 - Tsukumijimi(One handed pushing choke when on ground + variant with neck pinching) 2:50 - Ryote jime (Choke with the collar of the judogi or choke with your fist and your legs together on the ground) 3:40 - Katate Jime(Choke with your forearm + variant reversed) 5:10 - Loop choke(Chokehold + rolling sideways/frontwards/backwards) 6:05 - Jigoku Jime (Armlock + chokehold by grabbing the collar of the judogi or a legchoke) 7:40 - Hasami Jime(Choke with one leg & one arm on the ground) 10:05 - Conclusion

[@Burzurk1987]

Awesome video!! I love Newaza and Shime Waza of Judo. Wait until the Gracies and other Brazilians get a hold of these. They then will claim that they invented all of these chokes and claim these chokes have Brazilian roots.

[@Chadi]

😂

[@oneguy7202]

Chadi you are on fire take a break its Christmas time.

[@SI-ln6tc]

Agree He needs to rest abit.

[@M-a-k-o]

Agreed ;-) Chadi is spoiling us but then again *dedication* knows no boundaries.

[@Chadi]

It's not a chore for me i enjoy it, but thank you for your concern

[@xworks7]

Thanks Chadi, Once more you keep showing why your channel is pure gold, always bringing this "forgotten" topics, just because for a lot of Judoka, Judo resume to IJF, and it doesn't. I remember learning that "canto choke" as "Kensui Jime", when I was preparing my brown belt test (years ago), and as long as my Judo "profile" is orientated to teaching, I remember my "obsession" to learn all the chokes you show here, in that crusade, as you said, I learned that Kodokan doesn't give a name to the techniques they can call "Kuzure" (variation), the names can slighty change between some authors... Anyway, Not all are efective for the IFJ ruleset, but, if is Judo... I'm want to and going to learn it!

[@Chadi]

This means a lot thank you

[@M-a-k-o]

Hey Chadi, when you mentioned Ryote-Jime you transported me to my teens. I used it all the time, also when my opponent was face down. You are a great Judo researcher, thank you.

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@aasserelzoghby6781]

Can someone explain to me how the ryote jime works? I try it but it does not work. Any help or advice?

[@Marc-kq3hw]

John Danaher has a fantastic instructional on collar chokes where he says something along the lines of, "use your opponents lapel like a blade on their neck and it becomes your greatest weapon". Many of these chokes remind me of this principle. Also I learned a lot of these chokes when I was training for my blue belt back in 2008/2009 but my sensei at the time (she has since died) was a 4th Dan who lived through WWII so she was as old school as they come. Amazing video as usual!

[@Italiangentleman2394]

This is one of my favorite videos ! Great work jigoku jime is one of my favorite positions

[@davidkeeling6166]

Brilliant little video good to see so many types of chokes that are overlooked by most judo schools

[@Chadi]

Thank you David

[@omarrodriguez45]

Someone had to educate these so called fight experts!! Great work Chadi!

[@Chadi]

Thank you Omar

[@beskeptic]

Hello all! Nice Chadi. Like this I'll learn all techniques.

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@marksullivan5216]

Another great video Chadi

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@rvfree1]

Chadi stay's on fire!!!

[@Adil-tb8xo]

Hello Chadi, thank you for such a wonderful video. Can you please say what the title of book is called that was referred to in the video? Thanks

[@rustyshackleford735]

My neck hurts just watching.

[@Chadi]

😂

[@ejwalsh877]

Awesome video. My personal favorites are okuri eri, and a forward rolling jugoku jime against an opponent in turtle.

[@Chadi]

I love okuri

[@Djent7779]

Great footage as usual

[@Chadi]

Thank you 🙏🏻

[@thejamunit2835]

What a fantastic channel

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@fernandohsantos]

Ryote Jime is quite effective as a big surprise element, from anywhere. Katate Jime is particularly effective when passing guard, and Tsukomi Jime is nice to do when you are doing guard and the opponent tries to put extra pressure on you from the top. I used to do that a lot in randori, but I recognize those techniques require some strength, so perhaps that's why we don't see them very often in competition, as less risky techniques are being preferred.

[@Chadi]

I agree

[@kakomirai050]

Kawaishi Hasami-jime(7:40) is Kodokan Katate-jime(3:58-4:05). This technique is still often used in judo.

[@Chadi]

Yes i was explaining the principle at this point of the video

[@ijustwannaleaveacommentony6511]

i love the idea of strangling someone with my foot from bottom north-south

[@edc.2913]

Thank you for the video

[@Chadi]

🙇🏻‍♂️

[@edc.2913]

@@Chadi Actually showed video to my sons Sensi, former world team coach for US Judo, and his private coach, - 52kg women US Judo, and they loved it, my son is only 9, but already competes on an international level. If he learns more older techniques, no one will see it coming. Training for a NAGA tournament now, due to no judo, and video gives some great options, thank you again!!

[@Chadi]

@@edc.2913 Thank you so much

[@initdialog]

Ryote-jime is still part of curriculum and I often do it in randori. Same for Katate-jime. In Europe they still mistake Sode-guruma-jime for Nami-juji-jime. Ridiculous.

[@Chadi]

They are part of the curriculum but rarely taught or people go for okuri eri jime or hadak during ne waza

[@AikidoApplied]

Another good video! 👍 Ryote-jime, palms down, knuckles into the neck. Fast and very uncomfortable for them. Did it from closed guard on a guy with a cold in Beijing and he nearly gobbed a snot ball on me. Never moved my head so fast in my life.

[@Chadi]

Damn that's nasty

[@AikidoApplied]

@@Chadi Indeed. Size of a golf ball. That might top the guy who had a cockroach crawl out of his gi during BJJ newaza keiko. Truth. We called him Stinky. Never washed his gi, in and out of the toilet without zori; foul. It was a collection of interesting characters. I would teach Aikido to the BJJ teachers and students and then do the BJJ class or vice versa. Old Club Hero (now defunct). Owner ran off with the cash. Huh.

[@pausetapemedia7942]

Chadi can you please explain the blood choke and what does it maen and where does it come from we where told it came from Okinawa?

[@Chadi]

Blood choke it blocks the arteries from delivering blood to the brain so you feel ligh headed and pass out, not sure if it came only from Okinawa, i doubt it

[@pausetapemedia7942]

Is it a standing position choke??

[@Chadi]

@@pausetapemedia7942 standing and ground

[@pausetapemedia7942]

Okay cool

[@kempbrown4402]

Hasami Jime are also called buggy chokes and are regaining popularity in BJJ

[@Chadi]

Still used in Judo too it's called ashi jime

[@Italiangentleman2394]

Question for my judo friends is Eri Jime a blanket term

[@CH-qw6yy]

Great video

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@CWstealth20]

That hasami jime v2 looks cool in a way. Either because I don't see it often or because it looks kinda risky to pull in mma.

[@Chadi]

From south needs mastering

[@SwordFighterPKN]

Judo with all the techniques is what many would like to do, but we have throw only Judo or BJJ,; bummer.

[@Chadi]

Yeah

[@maitrekano]

the ryote jime could be done standing , i ve seen it in a competition 1978 , when i was competing in paris , one of my judo friend did it standing and his opponent just collaps , in these days you could shoke standing it was allowed , very efficient choke if done by surprice .

[@Chadi]

That's nice! No need to throw and also the cross choke can be done standing

[@scarred10]

@@Chadi it can be but I dont think anyone of any skill is going to let you get those grips if they are not immobilized on the ground. This is a great video there are several strangles I've never seen before,not in judo or bjj.I guess only the sport effective ones have survived like all evolution.

[@Italiangentleman2394]

I love loop chokes

[@chrisasherang]

some of the positioning look like a crucifix or bow and arrow choke. Good contents keep it up!!!

[@Chadi]

Indeed

[@beskeptic]

Okuri-eri-jime translates as sliding lapel strangle? I had trouble translating this one, so I'm not sure, but I thought it was "Strangle with assistence of lapels". The truth is Okuri (送) means escort or send... but I dont understand the connection with okuri eri jime and okuri ashi harai. I think Ryo-te-jime is easier to apply using your legs than it is without. Ps:I love the name Jigoku jime to describe that technique! Its sooo awesome. ps 2: Flavio Canto just got a promotion to rokudan

[@Chadi]

It's sliding, in okuri harai it's the sugi ashi with the sweep towards the other leg, that's why okuri

[@Italiangentleman2394]

The crucifix is amazing

[@eruston]

Got choked out by my sensei one time…instant dreamland!

[@Chadi]

Still hasn't happened to me

[@isalehyan]

I’ve heard the Canto choke referred to as ashi jime

[@aasserelzoghby6781]

I think its full name is ashi sode guruma jime It is basically sankaku with your arms You rap a leg around his neck and an arm pulls it around his neck

[@Ms0a9]

What is the name of the book from wich you take those screenshots?

[@leenvdsteeg8147]

www.pdfdrive.com/méthode-kawaishi-d39736663.html You can download it here. I would say it's one of the most comprehensive judo manuals out there. There's one catch though, it's in French. So far no one has taken the time to translate it in English.

[@Ms0a9]

@@leenvdsteeg8147 Thank you very much for the link, never found it in this good quality!

[@Chadi]

@@leenvdsteeg8147 Thank you I should have linked it myself, I'll link it in the next video.

[@arrowverse644]

what gerbi did in 2013 was impressive, shouldn’t be banned

[@Chadi]

Agreed

[@kakomirai050]

Choke hold (04:41) is not Kaeshi-jime. It is Tawara-jime. Kaeshi-jime is this. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXewmHmkq62Ng9U

[@rveras2009]

They are not lost. I just made through my purple belt exam and I had to performe all those chokes, by the name and by the order. Not our fault that BJJ couches dont have any training in this aspect of the art.

[@aluisiofsjr]

He was referring those "lost" chokes in Judo, not in BJJ. 70% of those chokes are still pretty common in BJJ.

[@rveras2009]

@@aluisiofsjr Im a Judo Purple belt and those chokes are not missed at all ...

[@Chadi]

In Randori, going for okuri eri jime from a failed seoi is easier, tsukkomi still being done but no success, it's mostly the variations of okuri eri jime being done cause it's the most versatile and most effective, hasami too what we call ashi jime, but ryote jime for some reason no one's doing it it's legal and effective

[@hoituthien]

A di đà phật... 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙇🙇🙇🙇

[@Chadi]

🙇🏻‍♂️

[@Александр-м8ы5я]

👍

[@Chadi]

🙇🏻‍♂️

[@thomasda3482]

thats not lost ..which are forbidden technic ..but ancent China and Japan ... It works in war

[@EthanNoble]

Wow a crucifix choke!

[@Chadi]

Badass choke

[@channi58]

Look ma, gracies didn't invent this stuff

[@ijustwannaleaveacommentony6511]

this judo stuff looks a lot like bjj

[@Noone-rt6pw]

I really like your videos, but understand I do not watch them all the time as I like to be able to pay attention, which isn't always possible. 2035

[@Chadi]

Sure i understand

[@wyattbreymeyer4033]

i think the wrestling mindset and attitude is starting to infiltrate judo and bjj, the non caring attitude towards training partners and people are becoming more selfish about their own game, instead of helping their partners, i went to a judo school in my town for the first time after training bjj for about a year, they had a grip it and rip it culture, no helping off the ground no room for beginners, it was also extremely croweded during the randori, i was legit scared of falling on someone, and at 300 lbs thats a problem for the person i fall on

[@bennagel2180]

I want in judo more chokes, leg grabbing and of course leg locks. Hopefully one day a new organization makes these things a reality. International Judo federation seems like a union to me..

[@BFerreira82]

Search for: - International Freestyle Judo Alliance and - International Traditional Kodokan Judo 👌🏼✌🏼

[@RyanMinney]

Thes chokes aren’t “lost” they were very purposefully left behind by judo. I practice Japanese Jujutsu we are always learning these chokes. I got neck tied last night. Shimi waza is like Ashi hard to master impossible to stop.

[@Chadi]

Which Koryu??

[@RyanMinney]

@@Chadi Seiei Kan under GrandMaster Madden.