The real difference between Ne Waza & BJJ rolling (Travis Stevens)

[@bluetiger5064]

I feel like what separates both arts the most is just the rule set. In bjj, submission is the win, no matter from where you get it from. In judo, a clean throw is a win( or a submission, with limited time) and in both aspects both are clearly a win in a fight, a submission clearly states that you made your opponent give up. And in Judo a throw clearly indicates that you just crushed your opponent into concrete. So i just love them both as the grappling arts

[@dianecenteno5275]

Excellent video and responses! I am a Jujitsu (Japanese and Western) person first and I have BB's in Old school Judo ( including Newaza) and Kenpo Karate as well. I have found that when grappling with limited rules against wrestlers, Judoka and BJJ people, the pure BJJ and Olympic Judo people had a much harder time than the wrestlers or complete Judoka. If you are going to master grappling, you cannot limit yourself to a particular rule set. Break out of the box, cross train and apply your grappling to every situation to be a complete fighter. My 2 cents. Train hard and be safe!

[@initdialog]

@@prvtthd401 Don't go so far back. In MMA you get punched in the face.

[@tjl4688]

@@dianecenteno5275 regular BJJ sparring doesn't have many rules. When you train the old BJJ way, any grappling techniques go.

[@montagistreel]

We need a popularization and perhaps slight adaptation of Kosen rules (& relevant training, conditioning, mindset, etc) in the US. I heard about some attempts here but it seems as if a lot of kinks are still being worked out.

[@markdaniels4178]

However, judo is far more real

[@CervusGreen]

I find judo pinning techniques work wonderfully in BJJ. I came to BJJ from judo some 8 years ago, and those pins have formed the basis of my top game. The pressure you are taught to create in judo allows you to force all sorts of openings for submissions.

[@kickinwinghotboi883]

Ever thought about adding Catch Wrestling to your arsenal? I really think it would greatly improve and add several benefits to both your Judo and BJJ. Plus, if you keep it a secret that you are training Catch, you could roll with your training partners and utilize your newly learned Catch skills with your BJJ to really surprise them lol. But we are both subbed to this channel and I'm sure we've both seen his videos on Catch, mainly the crippling techniques, so you know to be very careful when training with partners because it could seriously hurt someone

[@steventhepig3173]

Bro you en pointe

[@JustSomeGuy69420]

And then all the BJJ guys you pin high five you after and passively aggressively go "wow you're really strong" as they cry inside.

[@jojonels]

i’m a judoka, and for me it’s judo all the way, but i must day though with judo ne waza being simple and explosive, bjj does have the technicalities that judo doesn’t have, the methodology and execution, i would say judo would benefit from the knowledge of bjj, but i’d never abandon any mentality and methods from judo, judo forever

[@Chadi]

Exactly!

[@RoomAtTheTopStudio]

From my experience from BJJ hardly anyone except high level Judokas wanted to roll with me in Newaza. Although I wore a white belt I would submit all color belts. On the other hand in BJJ competitions I specialized in throws that got me side control so I would score the take down and get score for side mount. I would then go for knee on belly and score that then go back to side mount as my opponent now had to play catch up and I would either win on points or they would give me something to submit them with. I agree the top game is priority and I always played for top position. I've not trained for a long time now but my Judo takedowns will always stay with me.

[@Howsoonisnow2009]

I wish Judo clubs in the US taught pin reversals more often

[@Chadi]

Ne waza in US needs work for sure

[@عبدالعظيما-ض3ك]

@@Chadi kzbin.info/www/bejne/foCyhKuqrJyfiKs juji gatame highlights enjoy

[@ddg-fi5bp]

Recovering guard is hard enough against a good pinner. is it even possible to always manage the much harder task of reverse to your own pin or move away at the highest level?

[@mattb6539]

I’ve trained at 2 Judo clubs in Chicago, and both taught reversals.

[@Howsoonisnow2009]

Matt B that’s good! I am looking for a club that teaches any newaza on a consistent basis. I’ve trained at three different clubs with only one of those with consistent newaza. Sadly, that club closed so here I am.

[@insanelyinsensitive4059]

Being a judo player who has rolled in lots of bjj classes I found I pinned a lot of higher bjj belts but of course couldn't submit them and eventually they good out and submitted me...but in the street I feel judo makes you quicker ..

[@jedijudoka]

You can strike from a pin so I agree

[@kerpal321]

judo newaza is simpler but more explosive than bjj

[@Chadi]

Exactly

[@grantdunstan7613]

BJJ is like roly poly play that ends up in an optimum submission. Joe Rogan interviewed John Carmack who went to the Kodokan and was locked up by Judoka's so he couldn't roll for his submission. That's the difference.

[@kerpal321]

@@grantdunstan7613 i dont know who john carmack is, according to the internet he is a very weak looking game designer, him going to the kodokan and getting beaten by some of the best grapplers/judokas on the planet doesnt really prove anything.

[@filipem8678]

Bjj is the perfection of newaza. Newaza is part of Jigoro Kano's art what BJJ focused, Just because on this way a week fighter can defeat a stronger opponent. Nowadays, Judo is just a part of Jigoro's system too, focused on The throw techniques

[@forcewayne9884]

Judo is growing still till this day just like MMA grateful to be alive in this time!

[@markdaniels4178]

Mma is totally different from bjj and judo

[@ryanwilliams9984]

Good points in this video. I've found that BJJ matwork is much more methodical, but not necessarily suitable for the fast pace of a judo match. Because of this, newaza experts have my utmost admiration as it takes a quick, tactical mind to pull off submissions in shiai. Either way, crosstraining is great. BJJ is a nice break from the constant hammering that is judo lol.

[@Chadi]

Haha agreed! Sometimes in bjj you can take a break in a position and catch a breath, in judo that's impossible

[@TheAmerican.]

My experience is the opposite, BJJ is so much harder on my body than Judo. But I imagine that's school dependent, if your JiuJitsu school is good and you have good competent and competitive but smart grapplers at your school then it feels like wrestling with submissions.

[@SoldierDrew]

AnnMaria De Mars was the 1st American to win a Judo World Championship (1984) and she used Newaza because she was born with double jointed knees that dislocated easily competing in tachewaza so she developed her NeWaza to a higher level to defeat her Judo opponents. She's also Rhonda Rousey's mother and she holds a PHD. The Newaza of Judo allows one to quickly disengage if need be in real life or death combat defense, as should third parties rush to the aid of your adversary to futbal kick & stomp your head while you're on the ground. Brazilian Jiujitsu has stronger submission holds but often much slower to abandon and get up to one's feet should third parties rush up to violently aid your adversary. The time limit of Judo develops a more combat defense mentality where one must stop an attacker much quicker to survive or escape. BJJ evolved from one vs one unarmed duels in sporting venues where third parties were never a threat and therefore there was never any sense of urgency. And spring board flooring removed the devestation from body slams, allowing the submission game to flourish. Helio Gracie, the pipe weilder from the trio whom jumped Rufino Dos Santos in the street and crippled him, publically admitted that his tactic in duels was to survive til his opponents fatigued themselves and only then he'd work for submissions to defeat them. Such a game plan only exists in a sporting venue duel between two men. Outside of sporting venues the ground isn't a spring board, body slams break legs, hips, collar bones and end fights. There are time limits: the short time you may have before your adversary's people rush up to mob you. Or in a military situation, or a prison situation, the short time before your enemy's battlebuddies comes to his aid and kill you while you're stalling on the ground grappling. Outside a sporting venue time equals lifespan.

[@davida.rosales6025]

I haven't met a BJJ guy under a purple belt, who can actually get out of my Kesa Gatame once I get it --- and it is easy to get it with them after you throw them maintaining correct form (and position). PS. I only have a judo blue belt.

[@MagickArmory]

I watched that workshop Travis did I agree it was very good . When you said prioritize top game or to use guard as a last resort it reminds me of what Chris Hauter is always talking about when he gives his "rules of Jiu-jitsu " : 1st rule of JJ be on top! 2nd rule stay on top! 3rd rule dont lose sight of rules 1 & 2 due to the seductive nature of "the guard /closed guard etc" . Always thought these were good rules to attempt to follow if possible

[@Chadi]

Agreed!

[@satosan24]

1st thanks Chadi for another great video. Always on point and respectful. 2 things. Judo moves at the speed of a real life or death fight. Bjj moves at the speed of Bjj. Judo was from OG Japanese jujitsus where a death stroke is in play. Hence ippon represents death. Get to the dominate position as fast as possible and go for kill. Hence slam opponent unconscious then attack. Finish fast don’t waist time. Everyone says it’s better for the viewer. It is better to stay alive to end quickly. 2 things that I would suggest would make both sports much better is in judo add multiple ippon. Best out of 3. In Bjj 1 point for escaping the guard. If the guard is such a good position and an offensive position then getting out of it should be rewarded. Just like wrestling. Also to all you judo guys who get frustrated when doing newaza with Bjj just always stay standing. attack from standing always . always escape when in the guard. Never attack when in your caught in the guard only escape to standing position. And lastly just get better at guard passing. Once your in side control using your pinning pressure and just go for reverse sonkakujime while they lay on their back with their leg up to stop you from getting full mount. Who cares about full mount. It’s a terrible position anyways and hard to balance. They will never see sonkaku coming from side control. Easy.

[@Chadi]

Thank you for this

[@blitzthekraken9832]

Ne Waza is brilliant for learning how to deal with an opponent during and after the throw. How to position your body in the air to maintain control through out the motion. BJJ does not teach this, they don't teach you body position to control the opponent mid air. Why? Because BJJ is 95% ground. They believe taking people down is the easy part. BJJ poses a question, "You are both on the ground what do you do?" Judo poses a question, "How do you take him down and control the entire motion to the ground, putting yourself in the dominant position, after the take down?" Two fundamentally different ideas about grappling. BJJ's flaw is in a system that believes takedowns are the easy part. Judo's flaw is in a system that the throw is the only thing matters for Ippon, which makes rolling completely different, because a great take down gives you different opportunities then a poor take down. On a poor take down, you need to be methodical, because you did not position yourself for the dominant position once you land, you just wanted to get to the ground, and didn't care how you made it there.

[@Chadi]

That's a great breakdown, but you also have to facture in the pin which is valid in Judo, in BJJ it doesn't exist, which really allows you to take your time and have patience, in Judo that's out of the question, in judo we have ne waza randori we start in our knees (practiced in class and open mats and seminars barely any ground competitions outside kosen) and still the pin is valid which changes the game radically, in judo you fight for top position always to avoid the pin, barely any guard game, the reason the throw ends the match in regular competitions it's because in the old days a lot of fighters would get concussions and pass out because of throws due to poor mats or training on hardwood floors. One simple example is Tanabe got swept in the 1890s with a simple foot sweep and it was lights out, do any judo throw in concrete today and it's lights out

[@blitzthekraken9832]

@@Chadi Yes. But the reason for the throw is to pass the legs in the air. BJJ does not teach Ketsa. Ketsa is the natural movement for the throw. You have to start on your knees because you would break your partner if you practice this. But when throwing on the large soft mats is where you can work on the body position during the air time and your position of throw or sweep on landing. The pin is natural to Judo because of the transition in the air for the throw. Gosh, I see so many ugly throws in BJJ, where they actually get it and try to land in side control. The whole purpose of the throw is for you to land in a better position then your opponent so you can pin them in ketsa or side. If you miss it throw, then you need to get better on your feet, and work on turtle defense. If you hit the throw, don't get excited, you should be focused on your body position on landing. It's hard to practice because you don't want to hurt your mate. But conceptualizing it, and then practicing on the large mats is what matters for tournament rhythm. Think about the landing and the legs in the air and you will get the pin on sweep, throw or shoot. Watch Khabib, Judoka, he actually tries and passes the legs in the air. It's why he ends up in Half, or passing the guard fully on take downs.

[@henrikg1388]

@@blitzthekraken9832 I think you actually have a point. I have sometimes had the idea that you should never get an Ippon unless you land on top or still standing. To many Ippons in Judo are awarded when the guy just rolls over and don't care what position he is in, because he knows he already scored an Ippon. That's very bad self-defense behavior.

[@tjl4688]

​@@blitzthekraken9832 BJJ doesn't teach ketsa, because you're not trying to pin your opponent. Pins only matter in sport. Pins have no place in self-defense; BJJ focuses a lot more on control and submission rather than pinning and waiting for the ref to award ippon or break up the fight.

[@blitzthekraken9832]

@@tjl4688 actually top mount is a pin in judo. Ketasa is just harder to understand and explain. Where top mount is a natural position of the body. The headlock toss is pretty common in self-defense, ketsa is a natural position for most hip throws, understanding ketsa after the throw puts opponents in several submissions that are tough. Controlling the neck of a rooster controls the entire body, it’s just takes more practice. I’ve seen ketsa used after throws and it’s very effective, especially if you throw to harm.

[@maitrekano]

very nice that you mentioned travis , his tutorials are so good and has he always says basics winns championships . by the way very good analyse comparing bjj and judo ground game . first top game , then escapes and finally guard . perfekt .

[@Chadi]

Thank you Cherif, the beginners need to get their priorities right especially if they decide to cross train

[@williambreen4290]

Judo= throwing and takedown strategy with top heavy pressure ground game and fast submissions vs bjj= guard pulling strategy with flexible bottom game guard strategy and passive aggressive submission work! Is this a fair contrast Chadi ? Please let me know your thoughts

[@JEFFMAN90]

You're wrong

[@agalvan91]

I think the art of correct pinning, just like most of judo throws, has been lost especially in the west. If a pin is correctly applied, you won't be able to breath, so in theory it could also be used in BJJ

[@jedijudoka]

I use my pins to get settled on top, but eventually you gotta look for the finish and that’s where it can get tricky and allow uke to escape.

[@garrikenglish1332]

I think the only difference is that the brazilians called it BJJ, but is just the the newaza part of Judo . Judo got also watered down when it was incorporated to the Olympics.

[@Chadi]

Ippon judo emphasises the throw more, but Ne waza grappling is still pretty much alive, especially in Europe and Asia, ne waza rolling is different and more explosive because the pin is valid

[@aymanabaza6475]

This is exactly why at our Judo club we don't always train all Judo rules. Myself and a few others are older and I'm in law Enforcement so we train real life Judo. I can tell you law enforcement trains a certain way because under stress and duress a person will always react the way they train and that's how law enforcement trains and my mental ability to react to real world attacks and having to control someone it dangerous and I use lots of Traditional Japanese Ju Jitsu wrist locks and ankle and knee locks and thd guys I train understand this and will help in real life scenario

[@Chadi]

Awesome stay safe sir

[@ubcroel4022]

Newaza is better for fighting Strikers, rolling is better for fighting grapplers

[@mh.1.]

Why is this? Not denying your claim, I don’t know myself which is why I’m asking.

[@lucasbatista8169]

That would be good to mention Flávio Canto! For me, the judoka who has a smooth transition from tachi-waza to ne-waza

[@Chadi]

Ah yes true as well you're right, but this video was more geared towards the beginners who cross train and find themselves in terrible positions

[@matthewselge2997]

GREAT points! The goals and philosophies of BJJ as it relates to being on your back are antithetical to self defense and, in my mind, inferior to that of judo.

[@tettsubushi]

your channel is brilliant... I've been on a similar quest going on 40 years now. Started with kyokushin/muay thai striking... then judo & BJJ black belt ...all the best you and keep up the awesome work!

[@Chadi]

Thank you so much

[@PotatoSalad7777]

Both bjj and judo take into consideration the danger levels of pins or “bad positions” they just do it in different ways. For example in bjj knee on belly or mount is scored higher then side control because your ability to inflict damage to your opponent is greater in these positions. However bjj doesn’t take into consideration the time spent in these positions, you can struggle in the bottom of guard for 3 and half minutes before you submit your opponent, when in reality you are playing dice with your life the whole time you do it. Judo greatly emphasizes the time spent in bad positions, it recognizes that in reality whether it be on the ancient battlefield or a modern street fight, being in a bad position for only but a moment is almost guaranteed defeat.

[@hadenough2857]

I did judo for 20 years..started bjj and I was doing fine against blue belts....not so good against purple belts...but even against brown and black I found I could get them on their backs in a pin but couldn't submit them....

[@Supermomo2007]

but you can punch them while pin

[@hadenough2857]

@@Supermomo2007 I don't think you understood sweetheart.

[@Supermomo2007]

@@hadenough2857 i think about self defense. By the way : 20 years judo and you can only tab bjj blue belts?

[@hadenough2857]

@@Supermomo2007 you don't know what your talking about sunshine.

[@Supermomo2007]

@@hadenough2857 i know a lot

[@gladiumcaeli]

After seeing your mongolian judo video and this one. I just had to subscribe great content man

[@Chadi]

Thank you so much!

[@ALL_CAPS__]

If you train Judo without the time aspect would it force you develop your ground game?

[@Chadi]

yes that was the case in the past

[@ddas8554]

As a beginner in both BJJ and in Judo, I use submissions from BJJ/Judo, but my mentality is/will always be Judo mentality which is: having strong takedowns; having good pins; and mainly submitting opponents from the top rather than submitting opponents on my back using my guard. So my priority is takedowns > pins > top submission game > bottom guard submission game

[@Krenbeebo]

When it comes to the differences between Ne Waza and BJJ, I think the presence of referee stand-ups in Judo is almost as important as the presence of pins. A lot of Judoka don't bother at all to work on their guard or their passing because those things basically don't exist in Judo competition.

[@Chadi]

Yes but there's also ne waza Randori, done separately, where stand up doesn't exist

[@Byzantios1]

Judo clubs train you for judo competitions. Especially with the current IJF rules, the crossover is almost nil from BJJ. Its one thing to do it on a personal level. But BJJ doesn't have the time constraint on the ground that judo has. I have seen many BJJ vs judo matches where the judoka caught the BJJ guy sleeping and on his back, because the BJJ guy was used to taking his time. Our sensei would give us hell when we would voluntarily go on our back, in the guard, in ne waza.

[@michaciemniewski9791]

I train judo 4 years now (fresh green belt) and BJJ for few months (white belt). I find judo standing techniques good for BJJ but not all and not always. You have to keep in mind those very dynamic throws can make Your position worse as You end up on your back etc. (especially in no-gi) but 1. even without gi judo gives a lot in terms on balance, 2. throws like o goshi, tai otoshi or seio nage can be a high percentage throws in BJJ... that being said... 3. learn leg grabs and other BJJ-related moves. Those are super effective and makes You just a better grappler. Enjoy the differences between those 2 styles.

[@greenwood-1426]

Great video as usual. Even if it's a detail in the whole video I don't think playing guard is less exhausting or better for the body. When you are on the bottom you literally spend the entire round moving someone else body weight plus taking pressure on spine/neck knees etc. Most of those guard players stars such as eddy bravo etc end up going through the surgery disc/knee replacement and so on. Cheers keep up the good work

[@Chadi]

Thank you for the clear up!

[@greenwood-1426]

@@Chadi iv learned from my mistakes. For a very long time i thought grappling was like sex. The one on top makes all the work. I think it's the opposite. On top you just have to flow around, keep moving without forcing anything with your body weight always on your opponent. I find it less taxing on the cardio.

[@Chadi]

Great analogy haha

[@kombijr]

Slow and methodical- Bjj Fast And simple- Judo I can’t get easier than that lol

[@Chadi]

Different rules create different mentalities

[@AChampagneWeezy]

No gi bjj is extremely fast , i can say my side control from judo helps me dominate in bjj

[@williamadamsbjj]

you obviously don't watch high level jiu jitsu

[@kombijr]

William Adams and don’t care either

[@williamadamsbjj]

@@kombijr lol

[@mizukarate]

I used to wrestle in H.S. and have rolled with BJJ guys. I see your point about training for the sport. I did ok but yes you must train for your sport.

[@michaelterrell5061]

It seems like judoka will try to get off of the ground quicker while in BJJ you want to dragon the ground for as long as possible

[@Chadi]

Different rules will create different mentalities

[@TheAseer2020]

Hello all. I hope all is all right. If one was to view this topic from the beginning of Jujitsu, I read that it was a combat style for armored warriors to defend their self when their main wepon was lost in battle. I have heard that their are old texts that state on the battlefield one should avoid the ground at all costs, unless one can get a quick kill or cripple, via arm bar etc. If this is true, then I could see how side control pin would be of use, if one can get a quick pin, and draw a dagger for a stab, throw armor. Does anyone have any thoughts from the view of the origins of these two arts?

[@semfti]

Thank you for this information. I have two years judo background transitioning into jiu jitsu.

[@mattbocko2096]

Great video pointing out the difference between Judo and BJJ from a sports perspective. Regarding self defense, the survival mindset and technical approach of BJJ is far superior in my opinion. BJJ escapes protect from strikes while conserving energy which give you the best chance to escape when you have an opening. The explosive Judo style escapes can certainly work but are less likely to be successful against a larger opponent and will leave you gassed and defenseless if you fail.

[@Chadi]

Good point

[@covertprepper5957]

No, the speed and intensity of a real fight more closely match a judo competition than a BJJ competition. You don’t have time to get technical on the ground with someone while their friend is coming to stomp on your head. You need to explode out of there. Or better yet, throw them onto the concrete and don’t go to the ground with them if at all possible.

[@siegfriedo]

​@@covertprepper5957 Exactly

[@aymanabaza6475]

It's so true that in BJJ they stay in a position for a long period of time and to only defend from a submission is kinda easy but where in JUdo we have to defend against the PIN and Submission and that's why we're always moving so fast

[@Chadi]

Exactly it

[@abiladelabiladel210]

Diferent rule set requires diferent approach. I m bjj black belt and only started to train judo recently. In my fist competition in judo i have done ok. Of course i am not an high level competitor so my personal experience is not worth much but i manage to win two fight by juji gatame and one was from guard.

[@Chadi]

Agreed

[@darylfields]

Judo needs to bring the ground game back all the rule changes are killing martial arts today

[@Chadi]

I agree

[@darylfields]

@@Chadi Do you know why they're watering down judo and it's sister art bjj

[@Chadi]

@@darylfields to differentiate them and make them more distinguished and specialized

[@darylfields]

@@Chadi I like all grappling arts but I'm just a judo fan who wants to learn

[@Chadi]

@@darylfields it's never too late

[@wendellignatin1228]

i know travis stevens. i have watched his videos. i believe he was in the olympics for judo. quite knowledgeable.

[@IkeTomas2010]

Be well based in one and then learn the others. I've used my Judo/Aikido and Kempo/Savote kickboxing as my base. Then I've studied other martial arts like Eskrima and BJJ. I really like the FMA they'd make excellent base MA as well.

[@ayurvology7537]

Ground fighting is ground fighting. I have fought many Judo bb since I was blue belt and I found that the more innovative techniques dominate the old judo moves. There are obvious exceptions, but bjj is far superior in the ground, and I know bjj comes from Judo. The problem is that Jivaro Kano emphasized standup techniques over ground techniques in competition. That is why bjj has surpassed judo on the ground

[@Chadi]

Depends where you grapple, in Europe Ne waza is highly prioritised and respected

[@ayurvology7537]

Chadi I’m sure there are some badass judo grapplers in Europe. At least my experience here in Florida it has been different. Keep up the good work I enjoy your content

[@Chadi]

Thank you so much i truly appreciate it

[@OriginalGacole]

@@ayurvology7537 what are some good judo clubs in florida that practice ne-waza?

[@johntetreault4491]

@@OriginalGacole, I have a Judo class in Melbourne Florida that is run in the Carlson Gracie BJJ club on McClenden street. We have a lot of people who cross train in both if you are in the Area, you are welcome to visit. We get along well and treat each other with respect. If you are not close to Melbourne, send me a PM and I could try to make a recommendation near you. Many of the Judo Clubs in Florida are only now beginning to open up after COVID19 since they are operated out of schools and community centers.

[@stan2376]

In case you watch the Q&A's of travis, you probably know that he has a very strong opinion on bjj, he claims that it doesn't transfer well to any other grappling art or mma while wrestling and judo does (he goes further into that topic but this is what really caught my attention as a bjj and judo player) . any opinions on that? Ps i know its very difficult to give a short answer on such a elaborate topic so i don't blame you if you choose to skip this one lol

[@Chadi]

Well it's simple, any other grappling art doesn't give you the time to relax and craft your position and techniques like BJJ, that's why they don't transfer outside of BJJ while judo and wrestling can

[@stan2376]

@@Chadi i definitely agree with that statement, but i also think that wrestlers and judo players have a certain basic ability to atleast pass someones guard if they were to go to bjj while a bjj player has no chance in the standup game, i practice bjj myself and i have never seen good standup atleast compared to a judoka, not even talking about the technique itself but just the way they move and grip fight.

[@chameleonpt]

Amazing videos and break downs. Tha ks for taking the time to make them

[@Chadi]

Thank you Justin! I really appreciate it

[@chameleonpt]

@@Chadi come to London when this covid crap is over and we train 🙇🏻‍♂️

[@Chadi]

Will do

[@highchamp1]

My understanding Judo (complete opposite) on the ground (giving the back, turnovers...) BJJ competition (complete opposite) rushing, no punch protection... Confusion and too many hours wasted. ???? Gracie University is pretty clear with when it comes to technique.

[@Chadi]

Judokas turn over in regular competitions in ne waza randori it's different they recover guard because they can't stall in turtle position and wait for the ref to call, on the ground they don't give their backs, Gracie invites you to stay calm and survive even when getting mauled, in judo that doesn't work cause the pin is valid

[@bonzankoane1310]

U can't talk about any of these styles brother you don't know them first learn without comparing then master one of them and then keep it to yourself because at the moment you are doing them for the wrong reasons and two years is still beginner stages you don't qualify to be talking on any of them

[@ReisterJP]

The grip to submit philosophy makes it a lot easier for judoka to switch to bjj rules.

[@glennhynes5263]

Excellent vid. I ve done judo for 28 yrs and bjj for many..... agree. Good vid

[@Chadi]

Thank you Glenn

[@Yupppi]

I'm generally concerned about anyone who wants to play defensive if they have a choice. I don't think they can come up with a good reasoning outside their specific sport competition situation. And even then.

[@BRIANTHABARBER]

Purple belts beat wrestlers more than the opposite. Your talking about fake purple belts. You can’t count wrestlers who have bjj experience too. There not just wrestlers at that point. Haven’t seen any wrestlers beat Gordon Ryan or any other height level black belt. Nicky rod is a bjj guy who’s trained with the best bjj coach on the planet, he happens to have a wrestling background. With out john danaher he wouldn’t have won silver in ADCC. He wouldn’t have even finished the trials. A wrestler with no bjj training will not beat a legit bjj purple belt. The same goes for a judo guy new to bjj. It’s funny how wrestlers and judo guys train jiu jitsu for years and then credit judo and wrestling for their jiu jitsu wins. If that’s true then why train bjj if you don’t need it. Also when it comes to self defense and mma it’s two different things. If you could eliminate the rule of kneeing or kicking and downed opponent that would eliminate a lot of wrestling takedowns and ground and pound. Someone like Tony Ferguson would destroy people with up kicks from the guard. Pulling guard in a no rules setting is different from a street bar fight. To me it’s 50 50 but when you add rules that help protect the wrestler then yeah it’s not fare

[@MrKahunadog]

I saw the same Travis Stevens video. Bjj for 22yrs, judo for 10yrs. After Danahers video in 2012 of calling TS the most well rounded grappler, yet at the time TS said he trains bjj moves or he trains judo moves. In the recent video asked TS essentially why he wouldn't consolidate his moves to work in both. He roughly said to just work them seperately. I understand the time and pinning constraint. For a person with limited training time why use different techniques? I can't do 8 workouts everyday with elite judoka or bjjer as TS does. I would get 2to4 mat workouts a week before covid. Techniques that work in both sports but different goals. Half guard pass in both. Attack the neck. Attack the turtle. Move with an urgency. I'm guessing he said such because he's comparing elite levels at both, not normal brown bb.

[@Chadi]

well put

[@MrKahunadog]

Just to clarify "I" asked him and he still advised me to train techniques seperately. I am an unknown name and not trying to disrupt or disturb his most qualified reasoning. I do have decades of training only a few x a week yet question if that's ideal, vs what I was saying of finding moves that work universally in street, gi, nogi, mma. I only have 6hrs or so of training a week. So me using moves that I can do across the board makes more sense to me, I'm not competing at an elite level for money. But for self defense, enjoyment and fitness.

[@masvideos11]

Bjj=kosen judo. kosen judo was what Maeda taught the Gracie

[@rooooooby]

Which is better for combat?

[@kristopherpichon2170]

Guard works in self defense and MMA. I disagree that it doesn’t. The early UFC ‘s proved that. The problem now is everyone in MMA knows Juijitsu even the division 1 wrestler. So they know how to defend the position and counter the submission from that position. The whole purpose for guard is self defense

[@DareToWonder]

Its really rare to see a Judoka get out of a pin if its longer than 10 seconds. After it its usually done. Usually its before 5 seconds of osaekomo or not at all.

[@shayantheunworthy3390]

Some good insight which came from some bitter experiences. Thanks for sharing it with us.

[@Chadi]

Thank you Shayan

[@MG-jn4ef]

Did judo tournaments back then used to almost look like bjj tournaments?

[@chethorton1313]

Ne Waza means grappling technique. It comes from Japanese Ju-Jitsu which is how it trickled down to Judo when it was created and BJJ evolved from Ne Waza. I don't think it is correct to say Ne Waza when you are really talking about a Judo competition because Ne Waza is just grappling technique and has no rule set. Judo is a sport with rules and Ne Waza is a group of grappling techniques and does not have rules.

[@ChuShinTani]

Great comparison, thanks for posting!

[@Chadi]

Thank you for listening

[@DareToWonder]

If you do throws in BJJ or MMA focus on a throw with full control, ippon or nothing. Also anything to go to the ground ready for a pin choke or lock.

[@Chadi]

Exactly

[@DareToWonder]

@@Chadi also IRL for a fight you cant count on Ne Waza (which is why Kano did not include it in early Kodokan) so you should learn how to escape REAL QUICK. For MMA same but you can add arm locks and chokes if you go to the ground with a dominant position from your throw. Thats how i see it.

[@wendellignatin1228]

i study both judo and jiu jitsu. thank you my friend.

[@Chadi]

Thank you Wendell

[@mauricematla1215]

When you make different rules you will get different games. Simple logic.

[@XieTianXieDi888]

I hear all this talk especially from wrestlers that being on your back is a bad position, but how is exposing your back any better?

[@yannisdim.4924]

Another great video! What's the original video of the kesa gatame escape?

[@Chadi]

Just type kata juji jime judo

[@yannisdim.4924]

@@Chadi Thanks!

[@maitrekano]

i dont understand the bjj rule that doesnt give points to pinns like in judo , a pinn is a very bad place to be , in a street fight if you pinn your agressor its a death sentence , you can heat him or stabb him very easy , thats the point to the 20s pinn resulting in a ippon in a judo match . look at the mma match between ronda vs davis ( who by the way was a bjj black belt ) when ronda throw davis with an harai goshi and went to a keza gatame it was over , ronda just bit her with a couple of punches in keza position and it was over .

[@Chadi]

Agreed

[@wojciechpatalas6660]

Because pining is pointless. It is relatively easy to just control Your opponent when You are in dominant position. It’s not a some secret weapon of Judo. Every grappler with descent set of skills is able to do it. Problem is that it is a win-win or rather lose-lose situation. I am laying down, You are laying up and outcome is that we both just laying. But if a person in dominant position will start to get to the submission or start ground and pound in that moment he will have to open for sweeps or submissions. This is usually the moment for attack .

[@maitrekano]

@@wojciechpatalas6660 i dont agree , in my younger years in schoolyards fights when i pinned my opponent he allways gave upp i didnt even have to hit him or submitt him . and it is a secret waepon of judo . to allways seek dominant position . in judo we learn from early years the pressure in our pinns , you will not want to get pinned by a high level judoka because you will suuffer . a well done keza gatame done by a high level judoka who knows what is doing ,youre gonne tap . ask Kathy Hubbles a judo champion who in her bjj tournements subbmitted many girls with keza gatame .

[@wojciechpatalas6660]

@@maitrekano What can I say - "schoolyard fights" 😀😀

[@maitrekano]

@@wojciechpatalas6660 more reality in a schoolyard fight than any bjj competition sitting on your ass and pull guard -

[@tommybrewer9911]

As a Judoka I annoy my Bjj buddies with my kesa gatame.

[@Chadi]

Hahaha! i wonder why it is not in their curriculum! A bjj black belt said that you can take the back. But if done correctly it's extremely difficult ro have your back taken if someone truly understands osaekomi and knows what they're doing

[@tommybrewer9911]

Very true. I'm not sure why they don't either and the only thing I've heard is that when they use the pins they get called out for stalling.

[@selectjed1]

I use kesa gatame all the time , great way of killing the hips and shoulder to secure a strong side control position, it's common in bjj

[@brandoncheek2597]

@@Chadi I'm fortunate to have a BJJ academy with a professor who has done judo for 8 years, he's been going off lately on kesa gatame, scarf holds and all sorts of subs from it. My favorite part of jiu jitsu is the part where we take bits and pieces of other arts game

[@dietrich8820]

@ James Jones I can agree to this. I would go to BJJ gyms and give blue, purple, and even brown belts problems with the pressure of Kesagatame variations and pin transitions. They really didn't know that you can make someone tap out with the proper and pressure application of a pin until they couldn't handle it anymore. Granted I'm over 250 lbs. and not everyone at the same belt level are created equal. Just imagine how much more uncomfortable I could have made the pin if I applied a crank. With the fear of getting the back taken mentality in BJJ, I find that not many of them use Kesa and it's such a versatile pin with a lot of finishes.

[@joesphruggiero3707]

I love all grappling arts osss

[@JIUJITSUMAN22]

Nah, even to go for the turtle position, it´s important to use the hip escape.

[@ochiru7489]

hi chadi from being a long time viewer, i know that your tokui-waza is yoko tomoe nage, de ashi barai, and uchi mata if im not mistaken but what is your bjj game? in a way the idea of tokui-waza also exists in bjj like bernardo faria is an expert in single leg half guard and deep half guard and his over under pass.

[@Chadi]

Thank you for noticing, I personally like classical open guard, many call it collar and sleeve system, it allows me to submit with basic but powerful submissions like juji gatame and sankaku jime/gatame

[@ochiru7489]

@@Chadi cool, thats a very effective and versatile guard to have + i like the traditional aspect of it. im not a fan of overly complicated bjj "games"

[@Chadi]

@@ochiru7489 same

[@Italiangentleman2394]

I agree with you but also wrestling and and stand-up should be equally important you need to learn to wrestle

[@Chadi]

All forms of grappling

[@julesthewalker]

Wonder, if judo didnt have all those anti defensive rules.. how long would matches take to get a ippon against a person of equal skill? If those grip/posture rules didnt exist.

[@Chadi]

In the old days (1800s) some matches would last up to an hour

[@julesthewalker]

@@Chadi that sounds epic

[@julesthewalker]

Do judo guys spar till ippon? What is the longest you have sparred?

[@kassioyamarashi5523]

You have to ask the ppl who get both judo and bjj black belts

[@kensen1070]

Both are great but make no mistake. Judo level in projections (stand up) is way superior to BJJ level but BJJ level in ground game is way superior to Judo ground(or ne waza) level as simple as that. If you can trai. both just like a lot of juso fighters and BJJ fighters do, this is thebest think to do.

[@Chadi]

I know i train both myself, i was saying to the beginners like myself, that at the beginning it's best if you distance the two

[@kensen1070]

@@Chadi yes you may be right. For kids I think maybe judo would be better to begin.. plus it seems kids generally like judo better and it is very important for kids to have fun so they don t stop training and learn all the moral values embeded in these martial arts.

[@SINdaBlock411]

if you go to bjj with a judo mentality, you're going to be severely disappointed and annoyed even, because how can you throw someone if they simply by default start sitting flat on their asses and start buttscooting and pulling guard to begin with ...

[@1112-g1x]

its always more advantageous to have top position but its not always going to wer u end up., thn wht?

[@Chadi]

Then you play guard, beginners should prioritize top and then guard game

[@1112-g1x]

@@Chadi have u gt a video on tht armanian judoka who co coached ronda with gene labell?

[@Chadi]

@@1112-g1x you mean Karo?

[@1112-g1x]

@@Chadi karos teacher

[@anarchic_ramblings]

Submissions are great for mma but overrated for self-defense. Pins are great for self defence.

[@fredazcrate4362]

For all who practice the grappling arts. The narrative uttered are wise words to live bye. 🤔💯👌👊👍

[@Chadi]

🙇🏻‍♂️

[@Merzbjj]

Very nice video 👏👏👏

[@Chadi]

Thank you very much

[@lewispeart2344]

Didnt start cross training BJJ until I was a Nidan,

[@jb8375]

Dam travis Stevens has a dam good shoulder throw 🙌

[@Chadi]

Indeed

[@TheLockon00]

"It's survival, you guys!!!" lol.

[@jesseshaffer3951]

You can strike from the pin. Was not the original point of judo pin so you have enough time to kill your opponent.-- if people are not executing like this are they just using sloppy judo techniques? Idk about BJJ there are so many self defense holes vs a trained fighter. If you are striking you are not escaping the pin

[@Supermomo2007]

the sense of pin was to grab kodachi to stab another samurai

[@bill8489]

I mostly disagree, mainly with the reasoning. The fact that your guard will suck when you first begin, therefore you should shelve it, makes no sense. Your top game will suck too, as will all your skills when you start out at basically anything. Why prefer to top game to taking the back? It’s a much more advantageous position. Relative to top game, guard is much harder, so why would you delay learning it when the point of BJJ is surviving and escaping the worst positions? You’ll end up with guys into blue belt who can maintain mount, but are ineffective in guard and as a result are in a higher rank, but getting smashed when they’re not on top.

[@billcipher3946]

😑

[@DareToWonder]

Jigoro Kano did not like newaza. He included it later on.

[@Chadi]

Hajime Isogai developped it

[@DareToWonder]

@@Chadi i heard that in early early Kano Ryu (when Kodokan was a 20 mat Dojo) a man called Tanma from an old Jujutsu school thought them his style of ne waza. Kano said Judo should be 70% te waza and 30% ne waza.

[@counterkidnapping1737]

I laugh when you said "keepitplayful.com". Rener Gracie. Lol

[@Chadi]

Glad i made you laugh

[@timsohn7057]

That Rener Gracie impression lol

[@sweeneytodd1586]

Judo is Judo , Bjj is Bjj in Sport as far as Real Life Self Defense who wins ???

[@tiagomendes8986]

Mma

[@Chadi]

Judo

[@IpponQing]

Didn't he do a video of how he loves to use deep half guard sweeps in judo matches? LOL

[@Chadi]

He's a black belt in both he can do that lol

[@AroundElvesWatchUrselves96]

Basically Just Judo

[@Chadi]

Correct!

[@mojo-jojo907]

Sigh.. an arrogant comment that irritates a lot of BJJ guys. Most modern bjj clubs have respect for Judo and try to cross train or least bring techniques from Judo that can be applied to bjj. We try to bring in wrestling and Muay Thai clinches as well. That’s why Bjj is thriving, adapt what works and throw away what does not.The reverse is not true. Too many Judo gyms have shut down due to arrogance. I keep seeing the same mentality whenever a judo guy says Bjj is “just judo “ in these comments.

[@AroundElvesWatchUrselves96]

@@mojo-jojo907 ok

[@counterkidnapping1737]

Lol you're right that's what Rener said about side control, "survival", yes it works in competition but not in self defense cuz the guy on top.can punch you

[@ivantheterribler8346]

When he says survival, he means not getting punched in the face, otherwise it wouldn't be survival.

[@bill8489]

This was said in the context of side control, and if you watch the video, the defense prevents you from getting punched until you have an opportunity for escape. This same principle would apply to any judo technique in the same scenario. Try the sweep Travis pulls off at an inopportune time, and you’ll exert energy then get smashed. Do it after securing a position you can’t be hit from and timing it correctly and you’re out.

[@tomhawk375]

BJJ is like chess, Judo is like hungry hungry hippos.

[@nidgeontour257]

Try and demonstrate a technique to students and your uke/partner is preventing you from doing it? You may show and execute the move eventually but it ain't pretty and you don't want to do it again in a hurry? Welcome to randori. Not enough drilling and too much fighting without really developing the technique. Thats why you need to drill your moves with a grappling dummy! Trust me it works. Good luck boys and girls. x

[@Chadi]

Indeed

[@anarchic_ramblings]

The whole cross-training idea is illogical on its face. It's predicated on the assumption that all the judo world champions, and aspiring world champions in the history of the sport were actually training wrong. But judo training is the way it is because that's what produces champions. By all means do both sports, but do so for the fun of it, not because BJJ will help you win judo shiai.

[@omardiangeloarteaga4875]

I rather train wrestling. The wrestling takedowns I can use gi and no gi

[@counterkidnapping1737]

So how do you escape side control quickly?

[@Chadi]

You reverse and be on top like Travis

[@counterkidnapping1737]

@@Chadi lol it's not easy to reverse it.

[@counterkidnapping1737]

Here's the situation, Mr. Chadi, : You are mounted, you're on bottom, your opponent on top mounts you and he's punchinf you. How'd you escape that? Do you prioritize escape ASAP or block the pinches first then escape immediately? Same with side control You're put in side control and he punches you. How'd you escape that?

[@Chadi]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6XOnK15npuSnZI

[@counterkidnapping1737]

Oleg Taktarov once said " if you're put in a worst position the first thing you have to do is survive then if you can escape you escape". Same with side control on the street, it's a worst position to be, if he stays tight you can control his head and arm (to neutralize the punch) then escape you can't just escape because as soon as you do that he will react punching you. If he doesn't stay close to you but he's still on your side you can use your hips facing him and kick him get up and gtfo

[@kristoffermalm2723]

It would be interesting with a video where you present techniques that you believe work in both judo and BJJ.

[@Chadi]

There are so many of them

[@nihilistlemon1995]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 that rener Gracie rant

[@Chadi]

Thank you for listening man

[@maxb5957]

Max was here