The decline of Ne Waza : Pre and Post WW II Judo 大日本武徳会

[@chuckjack2168]

Chadi, I’m a BB in BJJ with a background in wrestling, Judo. Your videos are great and a great historical reference. I feel like I get college level lectures on the grappling arts and the connection between them all. Keep up the fantastic work. -Oss

[@Chadi]

Thank you so much! OSS

[@mpforeverunlimited]

Blue or black?

[@chuckjack2168]

@@mpforeverunlimited black belt

[@vaughanmacegan4012]

@M T I thought it was ossu!

[@Kitajima2]

@@vaughanmacegan4012 Lol it is, but I commit typos on my phone all the time. Also, Americans will sometimes use an Americanized spelling without regard to international pronunciation, so I get it

[@620ronin]

Thank you Sir for sharing this treasure!

[@Chadi]

Thank you for listening

[@vittocrazi]

"martial arts are not a thing on its own. they are related to everything thats happening. Socio-economics, politics, geo-politics..." This is why you are now my favourite martial arts channel. You are one of the few that aknowledge context into the discussion of the topics. and always welcome to dialogue in the comments. I respect you a lot for this.

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@nobbytang]

When judo 1st emerged as the top jujitsu school in Tokyo in early 1900s it was after winning a police contest , the contest was exactly that ...to prove the top style ..l think Kano thought about what the Tokyo police needed in a martial art and whittled down Judos then curriculum to facilitate a art which had loads of throws and then quickly pinning a opponent down ...the police wanted exactly this !!...at martial art useful by the police in a riot or bar fight environment where the trouble makers are quickly thrown and then held until another police man came and helped imobalise the culprits......very clever by Kano to out head the other styles this way ...

[@Chadi]

Yes when it comes to self defense and law enforcement nage waza and osaekomi waza are preferred

[@MichaelWilliams-mo1vv]

I did judo in my teens in the 1970s and we did a lot of groundwork. When we did randori the fight would often continue on the ground. I transitioned to other martial arts in the very early 80s and largely forgot about judo. In recent years when I've watched it on KZbin I've been shocked at how little newazza features in competitions. Most of the time the fighters break off when they go to ground and stand back up to continue. It's been left to bjj to develop newazza.

[@Chadi]

unfortunately

[@fallback8314]

what made you forget about judo? everyone says it's effective for street self defense (which i don't believe at all)

[@Kitajima2]

@@fallback8314 Why? In a street fight, you aren't gonna be rewarded for turtling on your back.

[@fallback8314]

@@Kitajima2 in a street fight, you're inevitably going to the ground. (fixed it for you buddy)

[@vittocrazi]

@@fallback8314 but its better if you know some groundwork (just a little knowledge comes great distances, since groundwork is super counterintuitive) and fall on the ground on YOUR terms.

[@taekwondobro]

This deserves 1 million views

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@lbredin]

Great information! I'm 61 but took Judo in my teens the 70s and we always did Ne Waza. When competing I remember doing Ne Waza an one of my favorite memories was when I lost but my Sensei complementing for continuing to fight on the ground and not giving up.

[@Chadi]

Thank you for sharing Larry i appreciate it

[@jasontroy3911]

It should be noted that in the years following WW2 the Americans were focused on disarming the Japanese which included the martial arts which likely contributed to the deevoloution of judo

[@Chadi]

also yes

[@Kitajima2]

From my personal experience, I can kind of agree. But Japanese are generally known for keeping their traditions alive, and I'm more likely to blame Olympic rules for the decline in Kosen newaza. I showed my uncle this channel, and he wasn't thrilled that he actually agreed with a lot of what Chadi had to say. Paradoxically, I think the modern invention of the internet has created a resurgence in maintaining the traditional arts Edit: Phone typo

[@Kitajima2]

See: Pride FC and Pancrase. They both predate UFC by a decade or two. Japan propelled modern MMA, and for a few years after Pride folded, almost every UFC champion was a former Pride fighter. And Japan is currently the world's biggest defense spender behind the US and China, so I'm slightly skeptical that the decline in newaza has to do with Japan losing WW2

[@armandoestebanquito21]

Ñ

[@tichtran8792]

Hey Chadi you should do a video on the SURVIVING SHOOTERS ( legit catch wrestlers). Believe it or not the "lost" art of hooking ( catch wrestling submission) didn't die with Lou These( that EGOMANIAC), Karl Gotch, and billy Robinson. In fact it still survived in their STUDENTS. Like I am sure you know that Dean & Joe Malenko( yes that Dean Malenko. In fact his nickname in pro wrestling was the shooter. As well as the man of a thousands holds), Debbie Malenko, Norman Smiley, Bart Vale, etc were trained by Karl Gotch. While Sakuraba , josh Barnett, shayna baszler, etc were trained by Billy Robinson. Stu Hart trained his kids and grandkids in CATCH wrestling along with Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, etc.

[@SamTheSentinel]

You're my new favourite channel. I can see you taking off man I really can. Quality videos.

[@Chadi]

Thank you so much Sam

[@Soaring_Hawk]

Just started Judo. This channel is a goldmine.

[@Chadi]

Best of luck on your journey

[@echovictor1408]

Congrats!🥋👍🏽 I disagree when some people say that the ground fight (newaza) was leave behind or are less important in Judô. Newaza is and allways will be present and important in Judo, whether in training or competition. What occur, in my opinion, is that the Judo is a very dinamic fight and the rules oblige the fighters to show their agressiveness and in the ground fight the judokas must be much more effective or they will not be able (or have time) to develop their techniques as it is common on BJJ, but ne waza is so technical and beautiful as in the Tatiwaza fight! Other point of view: here in Brazil, because of the influence of the BJJ, people use to think that judokas are used to train with jiujitsukas in order to improve their skills. It’s parcially truth. In fact, at 80’s and 90’s was very common that people of these arts train together, despite the differences between the rules, and nowadays there are people that train both arts, but the newaza in the brazilian Judo allways was strong and technical, with or without the contribution of the Bjj brothers.

[@Chadi]

Thank you for sharing! Ne waza will not go away

[@MoSec9]

@@Chadi Ne waza will not go away most likely thanks to bjj. I know there is more awareness among judokas about this decline but if we are fair we should just aknowledge that if it wasn't for bjj we wouldn't have this and we wouldn't have some of the judo schools that teach the complete judo with just as much ne waza. Right now, I feel both judo and bjj are incomplete without rach other. In my perfect world judokas would seek their bjj black belt from today's bjj masters who are today's masters of ne waza and start teaching complete judo again.

[@iruzgo]

I am a fellow Brazilian judoka who has trained in Rio de Janeiro, the Bay Area (US) and now live and train in Paris. Personally I looked for and trained in dojos where ne-waza is not neglected, but my impression when exchanging with judokas from other schools is that the average Brazilian judoka tends to have stronger ne-waza, be it for pinning or submitting. Fun fact: I remember my first ne-waza with @Chadi because he quickly saw the opportunity and tried a juji-gatame from the guard, something the average Judoka unfortunately rarely does.

[@echovictor1408]

I know that every judoka has his own experience, especially in Brazil, where we are strongly influenced in Judo by the immigration of japanese people from Japan to Brazil, started in 1908. Remembering when I started my life in Judo, as a child, and I’m so glad to have met and trained with senseis like Lhofei Shiozawa, the first brazilian who fought an Olimpics Games (1964), the year when Judo became olimpic sport. Sensei Shiozawa, who leaves us in 2008, was one of the masters of ne waza in Brazil, besides others that never forgot the essence of this martial art and taught his cohais that we start in ground fight learning first the immobilizations (learning how to weigh on the opponent). Then we spend hours repeating how to pass the guard, how to keep the guard and doing hundreds of “passagens”, as we call the “raspagens” from BJJ in Judo. I do not want to make comparisons or enter into discussions about what is better or worse, but just to emphasize the importance that these senseis gave to the use of training to build the character and moral of their disciples, emphasizing the essence of Judo: mutual prosperity, respect, humility and the importance of the adversary for our own personal development. In fact, I think all of this is the reason why judo is so magnificent and has the same essence in all the dojos in the world.

[@iruzgo]

@@echovictor1408 thanks for sharing your beautiful experience!

[@markjudge4255]

Some of the most informative videos on the evolution of modern martial arts from Koryu jujutsu to modern forms. And how the actual history and culture at those times changed them.

[@beskeptic]

Thank you Chadi! Great work

[@Zack1440]

Pure treasure man, great analysis Chadi.

[@Chadi]

Much appreciated!

[@garygoodhew7938]

Thank you for the great info

[@sardalamit]

And - shoot! Another one from Chadi! I was one of those who felt that the Olympics were responsible for 'no Newaza'. Thank you for this!

[@Chadi]

Thank you Amit

[@derrick_smitty]

Very well researched piece. Thanks for posting.

[@Chadi]

Thank you Derrick

[@JohnSmith-zc1bj]

Can you make a compare and contrast video on ancient kyoto vs tokyo judo & modern kyoto vs tokyo judo? Luv the video

[@Chadi]

That's a great idea

[@Minsang1st]

Chadi, where do you read about all of these history about judo and grappling? It would be nice if you could add the articles or papers (sources) of where you get the information from and source video links in the video descriptions

[@Chadi]

Hello! usually i leave links in the description, but this video only mentions dai nippon butokukai history which can be found easily, i was theorizing and you can correlate the rise and fall of ne waza with rise and demise of the DNB, but all other characters when i discuss them i leave links in the description

[@roninnotasheeplikeyou.2631]

Thank you Chadi for uploading this.

[@Chadi]

Thank you for always listening

[@JayEhm1517]

Fantastic video and commentary.

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@Lifelover992011]

Just discovered this channel, great pass-time since practice has been suspended indefinetly for now. Thank you!

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@mariorauldelapena2052]

Buen Video!!! Muy interesante y enriquecedor. Magnífico trabajo. Gracias

[@Chadi]

Muchas Gracias Mario

[@kanucks9]

7:48 Boston crab! Ha, always cool

[@onerider808]

so darn interesting - like all your stuff

[@Chadi]

Thank you Mark

[@perrinmuma]

Nice video as always man

[@Chadi]

Thank you again

[@Torashin]

Excellent video as usual. One thing that is interesting that is often over looked is the the term Judo and Jujutsu are interchangeable especially at this time in history. The judo term comes from Kitoryu and was probably used 150 yrs or so before Kano was born. Kitoryu and other practitioners used the Judo term as the moral principles when discussing jujutsu concepts in life. So during this time it was a popular term whether you were a member of the kodokan or not so that the public knew you were practicing a martial arts system with ethics vs just a fighting art. So the Butoku used the Judo term as well as others even though they may not have been an actual member of the Kodokan. I believe Tanabe never became a member of the Kodokan. Anyway excellent video, thank you, Terry Ham.

[@Chadi]

Agreed

[@rogermayer5899]

Chadi, this was sensational. I would love to see the Judo God MIFUNE SHI OSHI against Helio Gracie. The moves MIfune is pulling are great. Not sure of his age in the video. I have been training also 54 years, now just Sho Dan in 2019. At 64 I am not as nimble or anywhere as agile as Shidoshi MIFUNE. Super fit man. Osu, thank you.

[@Chadi]

Thank you Roger, that would be amazing to see

[@karlievbayram811]

I think you can produce e-brochure based on your work. Martial arts people will appreciate. You are doing great job thru KZbin but also think about small book. I really like your way of thinking of judo. At the end of each year IJF is nominating the best public bloggers related to promotion of judo globally. I think you should be there, definitely.

[@Chadi]

I hope i can be there, but based on some controversial opinions that i have, i doubt i'll get it, but thank you

[@christophervelez1561]

Interesting video. To bring up the idea that the olympics have have ruined the sport of judo, what do you think of the banning of leg grabs? I heard that the banning of leg grabs had to do with the need to make it look different from wrestling. But by getting rid of leg grabs judo is missing a large component of offense, defense and counters with regard to takedowns right? Love the video.

[@Chadi]

Yes it is to look different than wrestling and to become swift ippon judo, they should still be taught in my opinion

[@karleduard7725]

Its interesting to see how some few techniques of that videos have been maintained by Karate but forgotten in Judo

[@Chadi]

I had no idea

[@barryirlandi4217]

يا شادي شاكرين ومقدرين لكم على المعلومات المفيدة

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@guilhermeferreira8288]

Here in Brasil in 1990's and early 2000s, much of Judo Schools we practices 50% newaza, and 50% standing, now I belive 5% newaza

[@Chadi]

sadly

[@budisutanto5987]

I agree, the decline starting a long time ago. But today practice is still helping towards decline. Many athletes prefer minor score from throw, avoid newaza, stalling for the rest of the time. The mindset that it's have to be ippon isn't there. Some lucky students might still be thought how to continue incomplete throw(wazari) with newaza to achieve ippon. But many others is thought to immediately disengaged after throw. It's true that almost all fight start from standing position, but to concentrate training only on throwing technique is . . bl*sphemy :)

[@Chadi]

Agreed

[@karlievbayram811]

Seems that decline in newaza is completely economic and marketing thing. I mean newaza is not so picturesque and newaza work is hidden from spectator. People who paid for tickets want to see more big throws and martial arts are developing according to public interest. Effectiveness of newaza is not the main issue. The main thing is to attract spectators. But at the end of a day decline in newaza influences standing techniques and not a good way. Look at Greco-Roman wrestling: during the last 30 years UWW (FILA) is pushing the rules towads standing techniques in order to show more high amplitude throws during 3+3 min wrestling bout. Previously it was 5 min of pure wrestling without break. The main argument is to make Greco popular for public thru TV. Par terre despite its effectiveness was given very limited amount of time. But these two: standing throws + par terre organically enrich other and they are inseparable. Everyone is afraid of par terre because it is dangerous and you can easily lose in a seconds and as a result wrestlers prefer to work in a standing position. At the end of a day Greco became just "push each other" wrestling with 1:0 or 2:1 wins. Even high amplitude throws which were the main thing of all these rules reform are not taking place. The main reason of big throws shortage is decline of par terre work. Lots of big throws are happening during the seconds of transitioning from par terre to standing positions and vice versa. Declining in one directly influences another. Par terre work is very exhaustive and it is easier to perform high amplitude throws on an exhausted player. This is what happened with Greco when par terre techniques were given less priority over standing techniques.

[@Chadi]

Yeah but that's the competitive part of it, when it comes to academics, the demise of the DNBK played a huge role

[@phank.s.4052]

Hey, if it's not too much to ask, can you do Judo vs Muay Thai? Clinching is 80% of major stadium competition, it's a very big part of the sport. I ask this because I read that many old school Japanese Nak Muays, particularly Toshio Fujiwara, trained in wrestling and Judo to help with his standup grappling.

[@Chadi]

I'll compare many styles head to head

[@smb264]

I like your synthesis Chadi, which articles or journals are you getting your information from? If you can put links in the description I would like to have a read as well. Keep up these great videos!

[@Chadi]

I usually leave links about characters, but this video was a conclusion of many, and i talked only about the DNBK all other videos have links

[@smb264]

@@Chadi No problem! The pre and post ww2 immediate periods of judo was something I never really thought of, which is why this really fascinated me!

[@225jay7]

Chadi I really appreciate the channel man , now I'm inspired to do judo .. by the way I'm a bjj purple belt

[@Chadi]

Awesome! I wish you a great journey in Judo

[@nikolaosmandamandiotis8970]

Man hi, nice video, I want you to cover the political views of Jigoro Kano and of the whole kodokan as it comes to ww2 , from what I know they were against imperialistic Japan, some even say that Jigoro Kano was murdered and didn't die over disease cause of disputes with the emperor and the fact that they didn't offer the kodokan for militaristic purposes.

[@Chadi]

I'll take a look, I know for example Ushijima planned a coup against the regime so you can see the kodokan judokas stance about politics.

[@Italiangentleman2394]

A lot of judo guys in my gym had an issue with their belt ranking when they crossed trained with their belt rank in regards to cross training with Jiu jitsu but I think be was is just as important as throwing

[@marciotanuz7142]

Acredito que quando o judô passou a ser olímpico deixaram um pouco as técnicas de solo de lado ,aqui no Brasil muitos faixas pretas começaram a treinar jiu-jitsu para melhorar as técnicas de solo

[@Chadi]

there is truth to that, but judo favoured stand up after ww2

[@cicchitellialessandro4237]

Ehi chadi, is it true that ground fighting will increase in 2021 ?

[@Chadi]

I'm not sure

[@alancat2705]

great video Chadi !! :) have you ever seen cornish wrestling , Devon wrestling and westmorland wrestling ? Cornish is very much like Judo and is very ancient in England . the others do not wear jackets , but use similars techinques ; scottish highland wrestling also :)

[@Chadi]

I'll check it out

[@michaelaristidou2605]

So, basically most ("Brazilian") jiu jitsu existed already. The Gracies didn't really "invented" it.

[@josephbertrand2217]

they developed their own branch. not created it out of nowhere, that's how the arts grow

[@michaelaristidou2605]

No doubt they added to it, and most importantly promoted it. But, sometimes they behave like they invented the art and own it. Pfff

[@Sira628]

they didnt invented but they are masters

[@omarsilva5385]

You are talking about Kosen correct?

[@Chadi]

No kosen is done in schools only I'm talking Ne waza in general

[@SoldierDrew]

@Chadi, here's a link to a compilation of Judo being used effectively in no-gi street fights. For your research: facebook.com/848437578548489/posts/3030864483639110/

[@Chadi]

Thank you so much

[@AlexEinherjar]

What's the name of this video you used?

[@Chadi]

Tsunetane Oda

[@Chadi]

Kyuzo Mifune Ne Waza

[@AlexEinherjar]

Thanks a lot. I'm a Krav Maga instructor, so I have a lot of interest in Boxing, Judo and Greco-Roman Wrestling since supposedly these three are the arts used to develop Krav Maga.

[@juanalvear9481]

Am i the firts one who get sleepy with this voice? haha no ofense, the information its really interesting and usefull, it just the accent or the speed of the voice, i dont know haha

[@Chadi]

Sorry man i'll work on it

[@mpforeverunlimited]

Where would you say is the best place for newaza?

[@Chadi]

7 imperial universities

[@chrischiang1512]

Newaza Kenkyukai, legacy of Hirata Kanae sensei. They are Kosen judo based. They respond to email in English too, but beware that they expect strict disciple, class on every Saturday 3 hours of rolling. www.gws.ne.jp/home/demo2/indexe.html

[@mpforeverunlimited]

@@Chadi i thought they kind of degraded in recent years as well? I remember you saying something to that effect

[@Chadi]

@@mpforeverunlimited not degraded, we just don't know what they're up to, they're very secluded

[@EtherealWinterWind]

Is there any evidence of previous lapel/worm guard play in Judo?

[@Chadi]

There is evidence of Keenan's belt guard

[@WayneManifesto]

No current masters? Koji Komuro would like to know your location

[@Chadi]

I know there are masters but not as prevalent as before

[@MD-jk3ol]

GHQの政策で武徳会は無くなってしまった。 貴重な資料。

[@Chadi]

残念ながら

[@gotsukenj5358]

To Chadi, I watched the whole thing and I noticed you searched and effort to learn about the history of Judo, Dai-Nippon Butokukai, and the reasons why some particular techniques were declined and banned after the war, and I admire you. However, I think you should learn more correctly about the history of Far East in the era. About China, Japan fought against China and killed each other, not just one side game. So you mentioned the Japanese war crime, then you should know about Tungchow incident, Nikolayevsk incident, and so on. About Korea, it was annexation(1910-1945), therefore it became a part of Japan. In the period, Japan built the brand-new system of infrastructure and education, and built many hospitals by spending taxes of Japan. As a result, population grew up twice more than the beginning of 20th century and the average length of life became from 30yrs old to 50yrs old. Even literacy rate rose up to 70% from 3%. I understand totally Koreans still dislike to remember the history and bad feeling of Japan because of it and I respect that, but that’s not “war crime”. I think if you would like to talk about it, at least you should hear the opinion from both sides. Specially about the history of East Asia at the era of first half of the 20th century, Japanese people include myself are so sensitive since after the war we’ve been blamed and accused by other countries, particularly by China and Korea by now and in a couple of decades we’re getting notice that there’re many untold stories that proves we’ve been deceived about many parts(not whole thing though). I guess probably you learned those things from textbooks or media or some people from China and Korea or some masochistic Japanese, but I really want to ask you to search and seek the facts and truths to make sure of it before talking about it.

[@Chadi]

Thank you so much for your elaborate insight! i really appreciate it, I'll more into it and read further

[@rashidmartialarts9513]

Keep it up :)

[@Chadi]

Thank you Rashid your support is endless

[@ultimateoutdoors4659]

The DNBK was reestablished in 1953 and got official government recognition in 2012. Although not the status it had before. It has international branches including in the UK. It’s philosophy is traditional budo principles and an emphasis on peace and international understanding. Somewhat different to its previous nationalistic roots.

[@Chadi]

Thank you for sharing

[@fallback8314]

anyone know if these pins work in real life self defense situations? they look effective.

[@Chadi]

you need try them, ask a black belt to pin you and then you'll know

[@stefanobio7045]

Hi fall back.....yes they are effective ive used them in real altercations.

[@fallback8314]

@@Chadi i was referring to a lighter person with not much experience ~1yr vs an untrained heavier person in the streets

[@vaughanmacegan4012]

I think the fall of newaza was happening before World War II - I have heard the stories that anyone who was preferring Newaza as the way for Judo was being shipped off overseas to get their influence out of the Kodokan. People like Mitsoyu Maeda being sent out of Japan, to get rid of newaza. If that was the case it's a wonder he never got rid of Mifune - or perhaps he couldn't.

[@Chadi]

Is there any concrete evidence to this??? it seems to much

[@vittocrazi]

doesnt sound... very sound

[@vaughanmacegan4012]

@@Chadi I tried doing some research into this but I didn't get very far. I also couldn't come up with anything about the name "Kano Jujutsu" either. I just ran into dead ends. But Mitsoyu Maeda never did return to Japan and changed his name upon becoming a Brazilian citizen.

[@PauloSilvaX]

@@vaughanmacegan4012 Maeda he was like a Japanese spy, he went around the world transmitting to the Japanese "how the world was"... Japan had been closed for a long time, and needed knowledge about the world... and that was basically Maeda's job... the fights were just a disguise... Maeda dies soon after WWII starts, because he kind of retires in Brazil, and one of the things the Japanese wanted was land, until today the Amazon region exports a lot to Japan.... Then Maeda got land and work for many Japanese, and as Brazil and Japan are on opposite sides in the war, he knew that the Japanese in Brazil would lose everything... the same Japanese that he helped bring to Brazil He goes into depression and shortly after dies...

[@FelipeSantosBa]

It is not the case that Kano wanted Judo to be olympic. He wrote about this and was explicit. He did NOT want judo to be either olympic or a sport. He wrote that he would accept if this happened but it was against his will. He worked as an IOC member for more than 30 years and never advogated for judo as an olympic sport. He was even against judo tournaments actually.

[@Chadi]

He was still advocating for putting japan on the world map through other sports, it's no wonder people put judo in there, the confusion arose from this

[@vittocrazi]

where can i check that?

[@FelipeSantosBa]

@@vittocrazi Here you can have an idea, specially reading the letter Kano wrote to Koizumi Gunji in 1936 about that topic: www.ijf.org/news/show/from-martial-art-to-olympic-sport-part-6

[@FelipeSantosBa]

@@vittocrazi also, take a look at this great tv show about Jigoro Kano life as an IOC member: www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/ondemand/program/video/idaten/?type=tvEpisode&

[@vittocrazi]

@@FelipeSantosBa will chech it tomorrow. Thank you!

[@ArpMadore1]

Old kosen guys have said that the offense and defense from the guard was the norm before the war But after the war, the guard became less frequent and the turtle became the norm,even Nanatei's tornaments In that sense, you may be right to argue that Newaza is in decline On the other hand, there are far more Ippon wins by Newaza on the World Judo Tour than one might think They even won about 10 percent more ippon wins on Newaza than on Tachiwaza in 2017 But it won't be appealing to BJJ guys anyway, since the mainstream Newaza is about attacking the turtle and pinning Japanese girls have outnumbered everyone else by Newaza on the World Judo Tour But BJJ guys aren't interested in them at all 'Cuz most of their victories have been due to Judo-specific Newaza In other words, Osaekomi

[@スコブル-u9n]

昨日、家で見つけたホコリかぶった柔道本で磯貝さんや栗原さんや阿部さんらのページを読みながら「戦後は武徳会や高専が無くなって立ち技本位の講道館だけになったけど、当時の武徳会ってどんな感じだったんだろ？」と思ってたら早速この動画！😲 Chadiさん、いつもThank you‼️🙏

[@Chadi]

このビデオを作るように私を刺激してくれてありがとう、Instagram @ chadi.aeで私を見つけて、友達になりましょう

[@michaelflentge6484]

I agree with political climate, but is it possible Kano had an understanding that newaza is rather time consuming as self defense. Maybe pushing the whole “drop them on their head” was a choice he actively made in the direction he wanted judo to go? With that said I and my wife are both BJJ practitioners, and have been for a long time. I was a grunt when I was younger and a cop now that I’m...older. I look at Craig Douglas Shiv Works, also another BJJ guy with real world application use, things get amazingly more difficult the longer the fight goes on. I think, more likely assume Kano made the push in the curriculum focus to the throws because you can end the fight faster once you’ve gotta good base against an untrained opponent. I believe newza absolutely has its place. I’m a small guy and BJJ absolutely has proven itself on the mats, in the ring, and in full kit by my experiences. Still it’s not a quick finisher typically. Judo and BJJ would be civil arts by Drager’s classification and while maybe, and that’s a big maybe, time is not of the essence when compared to a martial art or a gun fight...I gotta believe most reasonable people would want to end a violent confrontation as fast as possible. Good example, drop him on his head.

[@vittocrazi]

My take is that Kano wanted to keep the art "self defense" and striker friendly. if you look into why kodokan and kosen judo diverged, the most probable reason was "butt scooting" (because the natural development of techniques inside the rules, that were more ne waza inclusive). We can agree that butt scooting is not a great self defense technique even though its absolute killer in competition. Also, if you look into the origin of the karategi, you will find that Kano also respected and wanted the insight of striking martial arts, even when atemi was forbidden from randori.

[@Chadi]

I agree when it comes to self defense you need a good control, throw and pinning

[@ememe1412]

No, sorry. BJJ did not create or expand upon the leg locks and no-gi to surpass judo. Rather, they took on and adapted aspects of Catch and luta libre to enhance their repertoire for submission fighting. The Japanese Judo/JJ challenge fighters of the late 19th C who toured Europe and the Americas became familiar with the submissions of catch wrestling and affected the way in which newaza was to develop pre war (some holds and throws even entered the judo repertoire but which are 'unrecognised' or outside the formal list). Before this period, a lot of legacy Newaza techniques descending from ryuha were not developed for submission (kumiuchi in battle does not have submissions, it ends when somebody is stabbed through the armour). It was developed with two considerations other than control. These are hojojutsu (binding with rope) or to allow for the use of the tanto to kill a controlled opponent (as in kumiuchi). Certain classic judo movements in newaza makes better sense in the context of minor weapons (including rope) being considered I.e. jujigatame with one knee up instead of the modern both legs across the torso, and why pins/control are more aptly called 'transitions' and not ends to themselves. The Kyoto group were exploring this aspect of efficient use specifically for submission and examining techniques for this end. Certain variations of pins that were less secure for hold downs (but traditionally gave sufficient time and means to draw a weapon) were put on the wayside for example I.e. kesa-gatame variation where the thigh is put under the shoulder and the head hand grabs the leg gi. Its weaker as the opponents two hands can reach each other for an easier reversal but the freed hand can reach for a weapon to offset the situation.

[@Chadi]

I didn't say they invented leg locks, the leg lock system of Danaher is something great but relying on the old

[@ememe1412]

@@Chadi sorry, you're right. I didnt put it well across. I was thinking in reference to judo/jujutsu leg locks prewar rather than what has developed in BJJ in the last 50yrs. As it stands today, only IMO, BJJ has the edge in leg lock practice and sophistication and also with no-gi. Practice of IJF judo is prevalent and Kodokan do not endorse open challenge fighting anymore unlike in their earlier days. (As an aside, the teacher of my teacher recounted stories in the 50s of their dojo being visited by drunks and louts out for fights on Friday nights. Since the 'challengers' would remove their shirts to fight with punches, kicks and wrestling, they maintained training in atemi waza and jacketless training to deal with the trouble. (Newaza was seen as less injurious so preferred). By the 60s apparently, insurers insisted the police be called instead due to liability issues. This with the growth of the sport aspect shifted training, no more challenges other than organised visits from other recognised clubs.)

[@Chadi]

@@ememe1412 I agree

[@priyanshubiswal817]

Classical is classical judo is classical

[@LarryBrooks-cf9qp]

Bjj has taken all this so much further

[@Chadi]

fair enough

[@LarryBrooks-cf9qp]

Love these old flicks

[@hiskandar]

First comment !!!

[@Chadi]

Congratulations

[@priyankagarwal4798]

#karateTV

[@wendellignatin1228]

I tend to think that both ground and standing are important. On the feet is where most fights occur, but on the ground is where most fights end.Rarely does a fight end standing. (except by knockout) I think that leg locks should be welcome in any curriculum. The more you know, the better.And as far as politics/imperialism goes, I am an American. lol I have no right to judge the Japanese for their Imperialism. It was a long time ago. The United States is responsible for way more bloodshed and war crimes than the Japanese could ever have done.

[@Chadi]

I agree! but american or not, crimes against humanity should be stopped

[@wendellignatin1228]

It would be nice if gov't of the world found ways to solve problems besides using bombs and troops.

[@Chadi]

@@wendellignatin1228 indeed

[@vittocrazi]

an american aknowledging their bloodshed? im honestly shocked. and i congratulate you for not buying into your country's propaganda (wich is hellova machine).

[@wendellignatin1228]

Not all Americans are like that. Some of us are trying to resist/change the imperialism. I myself am shocked by the brutality of this state. If you are comparing just by body count the United States rivals Hitler,Stalin and Mao.

[@clarkkent1218]

TMA sux, no1 can beat MMA. MMA is the best! We have the best and real Masters. Not such fakes.

[@tomasalbertotorresmurillo9392]

Second coment xD

[@Chadi]

Better luck next time bro

[@muaythaikicks3418]

@@Chadi hey what you think is better bjj or judo