The Judoka who defeated Kyuzo Mifune, Sokaku Takeda & Morihei Ueshiba : Kenpachi Murai

[@sonamtshering194]

Well I have now learned about one of the greatest judoka and reminds me that just because a man is not well known it doesn't mean he's not great

[@Currawong]

Can't help but be a bit skeptical about these stories. Apparently Murai *claimed* he defeated them, but remember that Takeda was a highly paranoid man who carried an unsheathed knife in his waistband, absolutely refused to take ukemi for his students (in reverse of the way traditional martial arts were practiced), and would suggest at the slightest action that someone's actions were because they were intending to kill him. I highly doubt Murai would have choked him out without being stabbed, even if he were fast and slick enough to get the upper hand over him.

[@HollyNihon]

Takeda started to carry concealed weapons 24hrs/day after he was trounced by Murai. This video is a vocalization of the comment I posted for another video of Chadi's.

[@HollyNihon]

When Murai caught Takeda in front choke, Takeda struggled to escape using all his Daito-Ryu skills but failed. Prior to the bout, Takeda had been insulting Judo on newspapers. The dialog between Takeda and Murai was held jointly by Hokkai Times and Otaru Shinbun. Takeda also has a miserable loss in a street fight. He got punched in the mouth and got knocked out with a broken front tooth.

[@Currawong]

@@HollyNihon The problem with this story is that nobody else known witnessed it. Also, the claims about him choking out Mifune when he was 5th dan don't match the historical records of his rank, which was never above 3rd dan. The newspaper claim would have to be verified. An initial search suggests that newspapers of that era are available, but it would require someone to check. So far though, claiming to have bested the top martial artists of that time does appear highly suspect, especially when one of them would likely have killed him for trying.

[@Currawong]

Here's the pertinent information about the Mifune challenge: From the Japanese Wikipedia (ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/村井顕八): その後、講道館に移った村井は三船久蔵（村井・三船とも当時は五段）と試合を行い、これも首絞めで勝ったという。 "After that, Murai who moved to the Kodokan played a match with Kyuzo Mifune (both Murai and Mifune were 5th dan at that time), and it is said that he also won by strangling." Information from the Judo Almanacs (柔道年鑑) -- link below, it shows relative rankings for Murai and Mifune to be different, with Murai never having gone above 3rd dan. This makes the claims in the book suspect. 大正１１年 村井顕八＝三段 三船久蔵＝六段 Taisho 11 (1922) Kenpachi Murai = 3rd Dan Kyuzo Mifune = 6th Dan 大正１４年 村井顕八＝三段 三船久蔵＝九段 Taisho 14 (1925) Kenpachi Murai = 3rd Dan Kyuzo Mifune = 9th Dan 昭和１４年 村井顕八＝三段 三船久蔵＝九段 Showa 14 (1939) Kenpachi Murai = 3rd Dan Kyuzo Mifune = 9th Dan dl.ndl.go.jp/view/jpegOutput?itemId=info%3Andljp%2Fpid%2F1150663&contentNo=334&outputScale=1

[@aikibaby]

HollyNihon That’s a lot of misinformation. Takeda’s front teeth were knocked out-not Takeda himself-and the incident was when he insisted that someone attack him with a real spear and the spear broke and hit him in the mouth.

[@LibraryAstro]

I interprete the quote as: if an amateur knows what you do then he can find a way to beat you. Know your opponent by not judging what you think you see but on what should be known (thorough knowledge of the opponents martial art). He regrets judging judo and not knowing enough and paid the price of being finished with a move which he could have countered of he wasn't so proud.

[@Chadi]

Absolutely brilliant!

[@counterkidnapping1737]

I thought Kyuzo Mifune never lost to anyone. Who's this Kenpachi guy? Do you have any documentation on him?

[@HollyNihon]

@@counterkidnapping1737 奥山竜峰旅日記 (1958年) Okuyama Ryuuhou Tabi Nikki (Okuyama Ryuuhou Travel Journal) 1958 Jan 1 ASIN : B000JAV5R8

[@danniragu7194]

Cool history!☺i always tell people ,folk were getting choked out before gracies exsisted lol

[@Chadi]

Thank you Danni

[@biigbadmuthuhmuthuh4630]

I tried to find more on this guy, but its almost that he never existed. Only found some chatter in aikiweb. Quote from there: "the main source is a rather expensive book by Okuyama Ryuho of Hakko-ryu (Murai oddly became a teacher of this Daito-ryu offshoot after WWII)"

[@BEM-vf3kx]

To quote Chael Sonnen, quoting GSP lol “it isn’t the best fighter that wins, but the person that fights best that day”

[@Chadi]

Correct

[@thedopesickshow]

To piggyback on that Mike Tyson said guys could beat him regularly in the gym, but to do it in front of a crowd they didn't do as well as him.

[@EduardoRodriguez-ks4em]

In Combat, there are no "gods". Great fighters have been defeated by the new blood. Takeda had a bad temper. Ueshiba tampered Daito Ryu to his beliefs. But, Mifune was not easy to submit. Murai deserves to be better known and his training methods. Thanks Chadi for these wonderful videos! Meilleurs vœux du Mexique 😊👍

[@jplacido9999]

"Listen him silently and see him without a sight": When you have trained for decades and you have a natural born "gift" similar to ESP, you can "sense" the oponnent just by looking at him for a few seconds, and better off if you see him talking and walking around. You can "feel" if the oponnent is really dangerous or not. To win the oponnent without fighting: That's the TOP of "martial arts" (but only in the "DO" part, not the "JITSU"). If you follow the DO part of "martial arts" (in fact, this will really be a self control, spiritual way) the highest point you can achieve is to loose the "animal instinct" to fight fellow human beings. With that TOP of the TOPs point in your "martial arts" life, you no longer have the tendency to fight as a reaction to everyday situations. One factor contributing to this, is that after hard training for decades, you understand that fighting is a really dificult thing to master, and after all that hard efforts, you don't feel like wasting all to a stupid physical fight. But of course: You have to pair that to a great behaviour at you daily life. That will bring good karma to you (what goes around, comes around) and suddenly you discover that "figth" situations mysteriously desappear from your daily life. That's the meannig of "winning without a fight". You allways win a fight that you don't have to fight. (Don't mix concepts: Martial art is the knowledge to fight WAR and includes all kinds of weapons. Fightint sports are organized sports for self pleasure or money. Self-defense is for not standing as a easy victim to a normal attacker (will not work against a highly specialized attacker, or mob). Selfcontrol is to dominate that terrible animal instinct to fight other human beings. Physical training is another reason for "martial art" style training. And the "DO" ("WAY") part for selfcontrol and spiritual advancement). All acepptable for the right reasons.

[@diablorojo3887]

i know that Sokaku and Ueshiba are prone to make bad mistakes (sensei Ueshiba always talk openly about that with his diciples) but i can't imagine someone win against Mifune

[@salahuddinmuhammad3251]

Repeat after me, he was only a man, he was only a man, he was only a man. As great as he was

[@richardwhiting299]

Mifuni was tiny.. Why do we have weight categories ?

[@goshuryusc]

Watching him move, he reminds me a lot like Gozo Shioda’s movement. Thanks for sharing.

[@MARIUSVL]

As a person who researches Aikido and to much extent Daito ryu history seriously, i find these stories extremely unlikely that ever happened.First of all who was this guy? For someone who beat some of the best of the best of the time, there is no photo of him, no real records of his birth, death or other details, his martial arts studies.. There is literally nothing on him in english, and very little info in Japanese.. And then there is a claim that he beat both greats in a match -Takeda and after that Ueshiba! Are you kidding- these are the real giants of martial arts of the era. It is rather well documented that Takeda would challenge just Anybody who dared to oppose him, and win in a flash. No matter how big how strong how fast, one just couldn’t do anything when in contact with Takeda sensei, Takeda sensei was master of aiki. In Fact he mocked judo all his life, calling it not real, just a sport etc., in his demonstrations he would call strongest looking guys, had his arms tied and invite everybody to take him down, nobody could. Or allow to grab him anyway you like or strangle him and then free himself in a flash. Ueshiba-arguably the best of his students, was like that too. No judo player could do anything against him, there are plenty of stories,in fact, most of his students was high ranking judoka, some even returned their ranks back to kodokan after experiencing Ueshibas art. Judo founder himself after witnessing demonstration of Ueshiba, said that this is the real judo, and all we are doing is just a sport, and then send some of his best to study with Ueshiba sensei. Anyway.. there are tons of information about Takeda And Ueshiba ,their reputation, who studied with who and why and for how long.. and this person Kenpachi Murai, is he even real person.. you know what i mean, your channel is entertaining etc., but you should check your facts more seriously.

[@JayBeito]

This video a great reminder to always remain humble - once again well done Chadi!

[@Chadi]

Agreed

[@David-cw7pd]

daito ryu - do what's efficient aikido - do whats harmonious judo - do what works

[@wendellignatin1228]

"Any Master can lose to an amateur if he is alert." I like that. I think I get it.Permit me to explain. I think he is saying that our losses have the power to teach us things. Don't ever think that you are perfect. Pride is a sin/weakness. Even an amateur has something to teach you. Learning martial arts is life long journey.The moment you think that they know everything you are wrong. Confucius said that the teacher also learns from the students. Several hundred years ago, 13 small colonies defeated Great Britain which was the dominant world power at the time.

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@wendellignatin1228]

I agree with that very much. I feel that i learn more from my mistakes than from my victories.

[@Chadi]

@@wendellignatin1228 agreed

[@jansoerenhoffman]

it says: If you let your guard down, any master will be defeated by an amateur. So for me it is more like Takeda claims that he was taken out by a surprise attack he was not prepared for what is fully understandable.

[@wendellignatin1228]

i agree.

[@georgeszaszvari3108]

First, allow me to thank you for your meticulous research and in bringing attention to lesser known exponents of Japanese martial arts, as with your other videos, especially on Sadakazu Uyenishi. It might be interesting to bring up a couple of points in these comparisons between certain individuals held in awe throughout the history of martial arts. Let us first understand that challenge matches were usually held with a specific set of rules, Judo being built up around such a concept, largely due to the brilliance of Jigoro Kano adapting classical systems to the modern world. My first teacher, John Cornish (RIP) explained to me in the early 70s the great advantage of this factor over classical Jujutsu. Daito ryu and Ueshiba's later Aikido were not part of that development, despite Kenji Tomiki's work in making what he learned from Morihei Ueshiba (largely Daito ryu) in the 1920s and 1930s as an extension of the Judo curriculum, and introducing in the 1950s a form of randori and competition for that earlier form of Ueshiba's training, keeping in mind that the name Aikido only started to gain currency during WW2, formerly called Aiki-budo, Aiki-bujutsu, or Ueshiba ryu, etc. Ueshiba himself is said to have denounced his own pre-WW2 ways of performing those arts as relying on physical force, and only after WW2 did he change to emphasizing "ki", and being "one with the universe", even though his recorded performances of the physical arts look pretty much the same. However, the "ki" and "oneness with the universe" stuff is not believable unless personally experienced. Ueshiba's choice of junior student Koichi Tohei to become Chief Instructor for the newly formed Aikikai over many other senior students has a lot to say about this matter. Stories are legion about Ueshiba explaining his methods in obscure religious and philosphical terms, leaving students bemused and none the wiser, but we need to remember that Ueshiba was a lifetime student and practitioner of religious and psychological disciplines quite apart from the physical martial techniques he trained in. That Ueshiba was eventually able to realize his martial training in such ways beyond the purely physical is the key point (pun intended). Now we begin to see the significance of Tohei who was also a student of religious and psychological disciplines, and, among other things, had spent time with Tempu Nakamura, the founder of Japanese yoga, also known by Ueshiba. A student of both Kano and Ueshiba was Kenji Tomiki, and Tomiki was clear about seeing the arts he learned from Ueshiba in the 1920s and 30s as an extension of his Judo repertoire. In a published post WW2 interview Tomiki evaded discussing "ki", and so forth, and emphasized the physical dynamics, saying Judo was the art of the clinch, Ueshiba's Aiki-jujutsu the art of the moment before the clinch. Let us note that Tomiki's use of the name Aikido in his post WW2 formulation of his pre-WW2 learning and introduction of Judo style competitive randori was deplored by Ueshiba. Note that Tomiki's "Aikido" randori is heavily rule bound, necessarily so, which should be a cue to those familiar with Daito ryu and the later Aikido that competition without lots of rules is not realistic in these arts without the danger of incurring serious injury or worse. They were not developed to be sport. The nearest thing to true "randori" in Aikido that I know of is jiyu-waza, a free style practice which can only be safely done by trainees of similar experience and skill who know how far to go with each other to remain safe... just one side note: I've seen plenty of unrecoverable injuries incurred by Aikidoists, largely to the joints and skeletal structure, usually associated with grappling sports. Those who trained with Kazuo Chiba in the time of the Aikikai of GB and saw the effects on senior students in later years will know what I mean. Morihei Ueshiba had trained in Kano's Judo during his earlier days, up to 4th Dan, according to Kisshomaru's Ueshiba's record, and any Judo practitioner knows that one suffers a lot of mat defeats to all and sundry in the learning process to becoming more proficient, so the idea that famous martial artists like Mifune, Ueshiba, or even the remarkable Kenpachi Murai, rarely experienced defeat is only fantasy. It would be very interesting to know more about Murai and his escapades from his later years. It is said that Ueshiba did generally invite visitors to his dojo to attack him in his later years to prove the efficacy of his method. The Murai-Ueshiba meeting from Hokkaido days was in Ueshiba's formative years, martially speaking, as a student of Takeda, and the specific conditions mentioned in the video seems to me more like a discussion the pair had on aspects of combat, to test something. Who knows what else was involved, whether there were several engagements in the same session with a variety of results. It is odd how Murai is presented above as the most exceptional martial artist of his day, supposedly defeating everyone else of distinction he met, yet remains thoroughly obscure. My guess is there were more Murais out there who remain unknown, just like Ueshiba did not develop his Aikido alone, but had a relative working with him who was not interested in the limelight... I look forward to any further research and information on Murai and others of that ilk. Great work, Chadi, thanks again.

[@Chadi]

Thank you for this excellent insight! Probably there were many Murais as you said

[@aikibaby]

Check out Kyoichi Murai, top student of Minoru Mochizuki. Kyoichi Murai was like Mifune, master of sutemi waza, but skilled and officially ranked in aikido, judo, karate, jujutsu, and katori Shinto ryu bujutsu. A tiny man, Kyoichi Murai was among the three most powerful people I ever met.

[@archie26]

Very doubtful. I have just revised the sources and they are very weak.

[@roninnotasheeplikeyou.2631]

Excellent! I remember reading about this Man. Thanks once again for posting this.

[@Chadi]

Thank you Stephen

[@rustyshackleford735]

Do you do fencing as well as bjj? I think we met once a few years ago.

[@Gonosen]

Great as usual! 👏

[@Chadi]

Thank you Tim!

[@cagedraptor]

Defeat is not humiliating. Not coming out on top is / can be a good thing. I know from my mma career that a lose has always taught me more than a win ever did. My first fight in the cage, which ended up with a mark in the L column for me might have been the best and most learning experience I gained my whole career. I got caught with an arm bar and after that I said never again, and it never happened again during my whole career... see a powerful and educating force it is.

[@Chadi]

Thank you for sharing

[@davidshabazz2]

You should do a video on Dr. Moses Powell or Professor Ronald Duncan. Both very underrated martial arts master that don't get enough recognition. Great research as always sir.

[@Chadi]

I'll add it to the list

[@karllancaster7300]

Unfortunately the only half credible evidence concerns Takeda V Murai, and even that has been questioned. There is no evidence at all to suggest Murai beat Ueshiba or Mifune, or that he even met them.

[@youtubedigdin9064]

It was an interesting research indeed, but I just would like to add some points since this story is around in Japan for some time and people also raised some flags : www2.odn.ne.jp/meiqbudokan/mori14.html 上記、①②③は村井本人が奥山龍峰に語ったものである様だ。つまり、客観的証拠が無く、証人もいない。 - These facts were told by Murai himself, and it's specifically the most eye-catching stories. Since the book is Okuyama sensei travel diary, there is not much reason for him to "chase the truth". Although it's easy to think of such situation happening with Takeda sensei due to his "personality", imagining that Ueshiba sensei would accept a Bo match against a Judoka inside a close room comes with some degree of ingenuity. Even if the year of this match is unclear, Ueshiba's use of the Bo is super-sparse ( although existent since he certified Hikitsuchi sensei on it) , whereas his Jo and Yari experience is well documented, and would make a lot more of sense. Murai's alleged Dan rank missed the mark...like a lot 8928.teacup.com/chyogenbo/img/bbs/0001734M.jpg 今回、『柔道年鑑』によって村井氏の段位について検証を試みた。 （『柔道年鑑』は国立国会図書館のサイトで閲覧出来ます） ●大正１１年 村井顕八＝三段 三船久蔵＝六段 ●大正１４年 村井顕八＝三段 三船久蔵＝九段 ●昭和１４年 村井顕八＝三段 三船久蔵＝九段 ネット上では大正１１年から昭和１４年までの検証しか出来ないが、村井氏の講道館段位に関しては「三船氏と同時期に五段だった」というのは、明らかな間違いである。 三船氏が大正１１年からたった３年で９段に昇段している事から、村井氏が昭和１４年以降八段にスピード昇段した可能性もゼロではないと思うのだが・・・ネット上では検証不可能。 村井氏の段位については、今後も検証を継続して行きたいと思う。 Considering this, when the Mifune sensei match would actually happen ? Up until 1939 he was registered as a Sandan. By the same article, Okuyama sensei verified that Kano sensei later granted him an 8th Dan, meaning there was a leap. Dan inflation was recurrent back in that time, especially considering the war period, but anyway, we cannot say when that match happened and if happened. Saigo-ha Daito-ryu is one of the few styles of Daito-ryu not coming from Takeda's sensei lineage ( an interesting story on it's own), and for years it was not recognized as a part of the Daito ryu umbrella ( you can even see that they stll use Aiki-Budo and not Aiki-Jujutsu as a part of the name). As always when there are such internal grudges, it is good to take that into account, one group might use any type of information just to get into the other nerves without a direct critic. Again this was an interesting finding and we can review our beliefs over myths on our own styles over it, but let's all take into consideration that we all heard martial arts fairytales before, and this might (or might not) be just another one of it.

[@Chadi]

Thank you for this

[@fudoshinda]

I would have to agree

[@Hessam101]

I really enjoy the insights into history, and the biographies of judoka and other martial artists. The history teaches us lessons for today, as history repeats itself, and the biographies regale us with hope inspiration, and motivation. I am indebted, and commend your efforts, Chadi. Thank you!

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@mrteacher1315]

Judo of that era was softer & lot closer to original ju-jitsu. Post-WWII judo is power judo that is the standard today

[@brunod8578]

being an avid amateur research on Aikido even from Stan Pranin Aikido journal, I never heard about this.

[@Chadi]

It's a rare gem

[@Durante_di_Alighiero]

Because it all comes from a book by Okuyama Ryuho the creator of Hakko-ryu. Nobody takes it seriously considering he had issues with Takeda in their later years. It could be all true and then again not.

[@Gieszkanne]

@@Durante_di_Alighiero But Slim Chadi here tells the story as if it is prooven truth!

[@Durante_di_Alighiero]

@@Gieszkanne No. It's not proven truth. Not to mention that Mifune was older and smaller than Murai.

[@lazmonti]

Interesting that Ueshiba and Takeda have been through wars fighting for their lives and defeated numerous highly regarded challengers throughout their lives and along comes a young high school judoka and beats them all.

[@Gieszkanne]

If you want to believe it!

[@Gieszkanne]

@Stanly Stud I dont think you get Laszlos comment and also not mine. Maybe Laszlo is on your side but not me. This storry is totall bs. Also why should he leave Judo und later take up Hakko Ryu which is just a branch of Daito Ryu. Someone in the comments wrote that the only source of this is a japanes book on Hakko Ryu (what a wounder) and its not even prooven that he ever existed. Ueshiba had a lot of black belt Judokas who stayed with him because his technique was supperior. Even Kano thought that Aikido is supperior.

[@Gieszkanne]

@Stanly Stud Ueshiba had Takeda both had street fights and even killed attackers.

[@elijahhatcher8840]

Respect for the unsung heroes of martial arts. I've never heard about Kenpachi until now and it's amazing, such skill beating not only Kyuzo Mifune but Takeda and Ueshiba. I didn't know that about Sokaku, fighting dojo masters and taking their students. It was only a matter of time before his actions catch up with him, and he shouldn't have underestimated his opponent.

[@Chadi]

Agreed! Thank you Elijah

[@billgober2]

Takeda was notorious for challenging teachers and taking students by embarrassing their teacher. I've never heard any story of him being defeated. This sounds very much like the story of the creator of the jo beating musashi and mushashis students don't recognize it as ever happening. These stories of this guy is the only one who beat this guy I always take them with a grain of salt. Takeda had no problem killing people and I doubt this was any kind of serious contest or something he felt was necessary to go all out like lives were on the line.

[@billgober2]

If anything about Takeda is out there and it wasn't documented by Stanley Pranin or talked about by his son or his students, it's probably hearsay. I'm not saying he was invincible, but he struck me as the kind of man who if truly beaten in a real fight he'd commit seppuku if his enemy didn't kill him. Messing around with someone in a dojo isn't really being "defeated". I think words matter. I've studied Daito Ryu 16 years and read all his history. Trying to understand him has been like a passion project for me.

[@xStephanxHusseinx]

Excellent video Chadi, what an untold tale! Maybe you should do a video on Takeda?

[@Chadi]

Soon

[@morpheus3128]

I am very, very doubtful. There are no widely accepted or reputable accounts of anyone definitively defeating Morihei Ueshiba in a formal martial arts context. Additionally, many experienced judoka from the Kodokan went to test Ueshiba and they ended up becoming his students. So, it is hard to believe a high school kid rolled up and defeated him. If that would really have happened, and he defeated Takeda, Mifune and Ueshiba, Murai would be the most celebrated martial artist of all time. And he is not.

[@flakonik100]

Haven't heard that story, but it's VERY interesting..Great job as always!

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@flakonik100]

@@Chadi Are you familiar with this document files.4medicine.pl/download.php?cfs_id=1130 ? SOme time ago I was trying to find what are the precise techniques described in it, but i haven't found anything though..

[@nikolaosmandamandiotis8970]

That was a real bad ass fighter. Made Hokkaido proud.

[@Chadi]

Indeed

[@eduardoherrera4151]

This masters took challengesl great. Today, i can't think on any masters willing to risk their reputations (and thousands of dollars from membership in their organizations) to prove themself in a match.

[@Chadi]

Indeed

[@MizanQistina]

And today with the internet, any master could be humiliated around the world, and the fight could be misinterpreted. Any fighting videos could be taken out of context, such as we can see today done by MMA fanbois either they're paid to do so or not. If they win, doesn't mean their martial art is good and the other way if they lose doesn't it's bad. So no master will want to risk that. But, the downside is, we will never can authenticate stories about previous masters who allegedly fighting and win or lose challenges, because there are no videos. Even Bruce Lee have no videos about his allegedly real fights, and that is in the era where cameras existed. That's why I no longer interested in stories about master A vs master B, even if it is documented, it doesn't prove anything.

[@eduardoherrera4151]

@@MizanQistina I agree. But i do feel that if you are doing your thing, with sincerity there's no problem. Now, if you are claiming what you do is the best thing and none can beat you, then you open the gate for people to ask you to prove it. If you do something like "no touch K.O." people will want you to prove it. If you say your system is unbeaten, then people will want to test you. So is not really a problem of the martial arts, is loud mouth people who are the issue. That's the problem with Bruce Lee and his real fights. Many people regard him as the best EVER but you dont see anything that can support this claim.

[@MizanQistina]

@@eduardoherrera4151 I heard many claims and stories about masters and martial arts for years since I learn martial art. I was naive, so I used believe them. But then when i got matured I realized that it is all just claims and stories, maybe true and maybe not, either way it is not important. People love such thing because it makes them feel legit, a justification, on why they're into certain martial art and loyal. Even MMA fans are the same. You see, it is always about the person, the fighter, never about their martial arts although it make it sound like about their martial arts. It's a cult, persona worshiping. "X fighter beat Y fighter, so Y martial art sucks". It never end... :)) As about those fake martial arts, well they're everywhere, the only way to stop them is by law in my opinion. There should be a guideline about establishing martial art club/organization, so any associations can take legal action on scammers.

[@eduardoherrera4151]

@@MizanQistina We are dealing with something like this now. There's a guy here who was a 5th dan in Karate and technically went and buy dans from bogus Associations and now, he's a 10th Dan! The rest of the Karate community who knows him and shead blood, sweat and tears for their ranks are pissed off for this..they tried to do something legally but there's not a single Organization here you can go and process a case like this..and to make things even worse.. the guy went to a more Legit Association and paid, so now his 10th Dan is reconized by a more stablish Association, who didn't bother to check his credentials and just took the money. So at the end of the day, we can't even trust this Organization or Associations because many of them, are just in for the money.

[@MegaPaul57]

Hi Chadi if ever you get the time i would like to see a video of the story of Koichi Tohei who took aikido to the world and developed his own ideas

[@Chadi]

Sure

[@JustMe-vz3wd]

Koichi Tohei took Aikido to Hawaii and part of the usa, under the guidance of the Aikikai by the way, but hardly "to the world". Koichi was a showboat. Many of the aikido clubs under his supervision STAYED with the Aikikai after his break with the Aikikai. He founded his own Ki organisation, and guess what, eventually he abandonded his Ki organisation all together, it was that "interesting". Thank God that Kohei didnt become the Doshu of the Aikikai (which he hoped for) or he would equally derailed the Aikikai into ruins. Tohei is greatly overrated by his fans. Truth is, go look at youtube videos of present day Ki classes, its just terrible and fake as fake can be. There is a reason why his Ki aikido is so unpopulair nowadays, perhaps bc its just not good?

[@MegaPaul57]

@@JustMe-vz3wd Thank you for your reply as with all subjects there can be disagreements but discussion is the first part of breaking down these barriers i have many reasons for liking koichi tohei the trouble with martial arts are that they are watered down i started of with wado ryu and our instructor would show us some of the older techniques which are deadly but cannot be taught today i am in the uk and when my insructors instructor was learning it had to be done in secret because it was near to illegal eventually things were watered down to make it legal and hence modern martial arts i was amazed to find out that morihei deadly attacks were kicks no evidence of these have a fantastic day

[@joaoclaudiofontes5438]

There's no reference to Murai in english , anywhere . Strange . Maybe he was erased from history for being so good . If that's all true , he was the real " god of judo " . Anyway , that doesn't prove judo/ jiu jitsu is superior to Aikijiujitsu / Aikido , only that he was an exceptional martial artist . I bet he 'd have beaten Funakoshi too , if that's all true . What we know for sure is that Ueshiba was challenged by some judokas , and won , including " converting" some of them to Aikido , like Gozo Shioda and Kenji Tomiki . And that Murai would later change to Hakko Ryu only makes the story more intriguing and fascinating . Thank you once more , Chadi :)

[@Chadi]

Thank you! Links in the description

[@Samurai-sv2wz]

Chadi the question is how many people in Daito Ryu and, Aikido circles know about this? If they did would anyone in Daito Ryu or Aikido acknowledge this or even mention this? Because this is definitely news to me. I might try look up some information on him. I will look for this video again, it's very interesting.

[@risingsunintl]

Never knew, thanks !!

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@Gieszkanne]

Because its never happened.

[@williamdelong8265]

Takeda killed more than one person and he had a bad temper. He was known to always be armed. Never heard this one before.

[@peacewarrior]

Recently read this interview aikidojournal.com/2019/03/25/a-provocative-interview-with-morihei-ueshiba/ Where Ueshiba said in his own words I never lost a fight, I believe him. The interview is great and tells is that it's not all about winning and losing or competing any how. Modern day Aikido is about something else , more like moving meditation with another person, although I know it can used or adapted that way.

[@Gieszkanne]

The source for this story here is just one japanese book so....

[@Law307]

yeah, the video does not seem true and that lies in the details. For example, Morihei is known to prefer, in all aspects of aikido, the use of the sword. Why, suddenly, will change to staff? In another history, he says that one day he test himself against a hunter, and even before the bout started he knew that already lost. So, Ueshiba is humble enough to not enter a duel and lose in a way that was described in the video

[@kimcarson4219]

@@Law307hear hear

[@JustMe-vz3wd]

its all very childish. as i understand it, challenges were in a friendly way, although serious, to test eachothers skills. Tenryu the wrestler was "defeated" by Morihei in Mongolia and subsequently became a student and travelled with Morihei back to Japan. The fact that Tenryu was "defeated" doesnt make him a "loser". Nor was it shameful to be "defeated" in that context, nor does it mean that "morihei can win from sumo wrestlers". The whole claim that this guy did beat three famous martial artists is so immature and sounds so bogus. Even if he did, which there is no proof for, it has little value.

[@hoseabrawley1]

I think he meant grow stronger from your losses, anyway thank you for the very informative video!!!

[@aikikan]

At this time when this match happen, Ueshiba was just a practitioner. His power came after his spiritual transformation long time after the event.

[@henrikg1388]

I just love those old videos. Where do you get them?

[@Chadi]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3-sn6GbhdVgeZo

[@tomchin2187]

Interesting that it seems that Murai went on to study Hakko ryu, which, like aikido, is a derivative of daito ryu.

[@Chadi]

Fascinating

[@ryanrobles4832]

Hakko Ryu’s founder was a student of Takeda

[@Gieszkanne]

Thats why I doubt the whole story about the randori with Takeda and Ueshiba.

[@professorviniciusmiguel]

I would love if you could share the sources (books, documents, etc) of the history. Arigato!

[@Chadi]

It's in the description

[@MegaPaul57]

hi i am impressed at what you manage to find but it also brings about good comment and discussion keep up the good work and it also shows how martial arts developed

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@fahadkelantan]

I don't know if I am the first to comment. Haha. Hey Chadi, I was wondering if you can do a through video on Daito Ryu Aki-JuJutsu. You have the unique background of being ranked in it's child art, AikiDo, but you are also ranked in the JuDo which is a dissemination of many other schools under one umbrella. Thanks again Chadi. Keep up the good work. I wouldn't have known about these people if not for your videos.

[@Chadi]

Thank you! kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4qTe5-NmaiLd7M

[@donl3634]

Chadi, I enjoy watching your videos. Do you have any documentation for this man, Kenpachi Murai. and these incidents? If this story is true, it strikes me as a series of remarkable feats. Please list your references for these stories.

[@loneronin6813]

As someone who practices martial arts, I see value and respect for every style and method. When it comes to practicing with or facing against someone, I have always believed that overconfidence is one's worst enemy. I think it's fair to say that Kenpachi Murai was underestimated by the masters he challenged as he clearly had far more skill than they anticipated. Never underestimate anyone, no matter the circumstances.

[@Chadi]

Agreed

[@loneronin6813]

@@Chadi Thanks so much for your response :D I really appreciate the work you do and I hope that you are doing well in all aspects of life.

[@hmurdock]

Never heard this story until today. So this is why Daito-Ryu is hard to find? I guess its also a compromise because Daito-Ryu evolved to be a training system for soldiers or policemen and a lot of focus had to be put into attacking and breaking techniques. Still wanna try Judo myself. Trained Daito-Ryu in the past

[@jesseshaffer3951]

Winning the match without fighting is a reference to the mental aspects of a fight. If a person cannot envision beating you their chances are much less. So you beat them without fighting (but it does not mean there is no fighting). - he is saying he lost because of mental not technical.

[@ludvigrigger]

Thank you for your effort to share this with us! So, actually Takeda and Ueshiba was not so untouchable.

[@aikibaby]

Don’t just eat anything you find on the sidewalk. Better check this story out very thoroughly before believing it outright.

[@christossaripanidis274]

THANK YOU for the interesting story !

[@oscardominguez2468]

Amigo ,que posibilidades de encontrar algun video lo libro de mataemon tanave , porque en japon intentaron opacar la imagen de ese gran hombre , cuando fue crucial en el judo

[@ChrisGrande]

Some other recent reference brought up Murai. I could only find reference to him on a Japanese Wikipedia page mentioned below. A true Michael Jordan of martial arts.

[@Chadi]

Indeed

[@thejanitorssweeps5883]

This is a great video and makes a point I've tried to make for a long time, investing too much in the accomplishments of others rather than yourself you may never know your own potential.

[@dsimon33871]

It would be nice if you could have source materials to verify this alleged match(s). One newspaper account, which is not listed as a source, is not really enough to draw a conclusion.

[@fredazcrate4362]

Remarkable man. It is documentaries that record the achievements of near forgotten man that are the most enjoyable. Thank you ladd .

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@yawaragirl]

Thanks great vid

[@Chadi]

Thank you Yawara girl

[@gokor356]

Why is there no images or videos of kenpachi? Surely if he went to America there would have been some media of him.

[@themav3ricm3thodd91]

Something I've noticed. There are tons of scorpio judo masters.

[@mrteacher1315]

I suspect both Ueshiba & Sokaku did not use atemi waza because it was a friendly match

[@kalikaputra]

It was a spar and not a fight with the ken. Daityo Ryu is first and foremost with weapons and hand to hand combat is secondary.

[@ccdev]

@@kalikaputra Dont joke. Sokaku had a reputation to protect and was known to have a big ego and temper, he would not have lost if he could help it.

[@kalikaputra]

@@ccdev wasn't joking mate

[@thatheat1914]

The high school student was psychic is what he meant

[@salahuddinmuhammad3251]

Of course, this is not discussed in DR circles.

[@rogerwilliams2629]

Great story, thank you. Chadi, do you happen to know any history of a man named Tai Watanabe? Kodokan in the 50s and 60s? You know, I havent even looked myself, I just wondered if you have heard of him.

[@danielcahyadi4707]

I'm so grateful to find your channel.. greetings from south east asia my friend.. 🙏🙏

[@Chadi]

Thank you my friend

[@HHIto]

I attended Seinan Dojo, doctor said he would have to cut my legs because of the hematomas..... focused on my academic goal .... wanted to be like my dad....

[@christoszikos1978]

Great video!!!!Congratulations!!!

[@Chadi]

Thank you so much

[@rashidmartialarts9513]

Excellent video 😊

[@Chadi]

Thank you Rashid

[@initdialog]

Can you make videos on Tokio Hirano and Kawaishi?

[@Chadi]

Already did you can browse them on my channel

[@jayim7996]

Hi Chadi...Thanks for your research. Have you done any research on why or if Jigoro Kano sent his top students to study under Morihei Ueshiba after seeing his demonstration?

[@Chadi]

I'll do my research

[@jayim7996]

My background is Aikido and it is in Aikido History that Jigoro Kano sent some of his top students, Minoro Mochizuki and Kenji Tomiki (who open his own style of competition Aikido) to study under Morihei Ueshiba.

[@Chadi]

@@jayim7996 i did cover these two on my channel, i don't know if there's anyone else

[@Finny1996]

@@Chadi Sugino Yoshio

[@HollyNihon]

The formal name of the school Murai attended is Otaru Koutou Shougyou Gakkou (小樽高等商業学校), that is, Otaru High Class Commerce School. ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B0%8F%E6%A8%BD%E9%AB%98%E7%AD%89%E5%95%86%E6%A5%AD%E5%AD%A6%E6%A0%A1 It was founded in 1910 Mar, and was abolished in 1950, and was absorbed into Otaru University of Commerce (founded 1949). english.otaru-uc.ac.jp/ Murai earned 3rd Dan in Judo while in middle school (5 years program after elementary school of 6 years), and opened a dojo after he finished middle school. While operating his dojo, he was a student of Otaru High Class Commerce School from 1915 to 1917. When Takeda visited Otaru, Murai was already famous in Otaru. This is why the dialog between Takeda and Murai was held jointly by Hokkai Times and Otaru Shinbun. Murai competed in Kosen Judo. Hokkaido University Prep Department (later to be absorbed into Hokkaido University in 1950 after Education Reform) Judo Club was a nationally known strong team but did not participate in any Kosen Judo competition from 1915 to 1917 when Murai was enrolled in Otaru High Class Commerce School. Hokkaido University currently is a member of Nana-tei Judo ( Nana-tei = 7 former Imperial Universities) Association. Toshinari Masuda, the author of “Naze Kimura Masahiko wa Rikidozan o Korosanakatta noka (Why didn't Masahiko Kimura kill Rikidonzan?” and “Kimura Masahiko Gaiden”, was a member of Hokkaido University Nana-tei Judo Club. I am reading these books (each of which is over 700 pages long) now, and confirmed that he did thorough research on the historical relation between Kodokan, Butokukai, and Kosen Judo. At Otaru High Class Commerce School, Murai learned Judo from Hidetoshi Tomabechi (1884 Dec 1-1966 May 5). ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%8B%AB%E7%B1%B3%E5%9C%B0%E8%8B%B1%E4%BF%8A Hidetoshi Tomabechi 1907: graduated from Tokyo Foreign Language School, and was sent by the Ministry of Education to Oxford University in UK and Harvard University in US to study Business English and International Law. After he returned to Japan, he became a lecturer at Otaru High Class Commerce School. 1916: Professor at Otaru High Class Commerce School. 1935: Principal of Otaru High Class Commerce School. 1945 July: receives 2nd Class Order of the Sacred Treasure 1946: elected to House of Representatives 1947: Provost of Kodokan 1948 Apr: Professor of Linguistics and Business English at Sapporo Gaku-in University 1948 Aug: President of Sapporo Gakuin University 1964 Nov: receives 2nd Class Order of the Rising Sun

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@Currawong]

Nice work! We have to be careful to verify anything said by martial artists as they are not reliable sources of history.

[@ThePorkLink]

Would have loved to have been in Asheville North Carolina back right before the turn of the century and witnessed the match between Olsen and Atori sensei evidently Olsen kept head butting and then leg locked Atori and tore tendons.Atori walked with a cane for the rest of his life. Maeda and Atori left North Carolina at this time,wonder if they got ran out of town.Tom Frisbee was called out by this Olsen and declined, Tom was 6,6 300 pounds,Olsen was 6’ 160 must have been a demon.

[@the-dusty-professor]

The youth, determination & intelligence of Murai combined with the wisdom of his Professor or Professor's prevailed against the experience, age and arrogance of Mifune, Takeda & Ueshiba.

[@kevintse2870]

None of the footage matches what the guy was saying...

[@carlos0259774]

Bro !! This is 2 videos in a row that you shock me !! First the Shuai Jiao and now with Murai !! I'm a black belt in Judo and I'm baffled by these two videos. Props for your research on these topics. I am definitely subscribing to your channel my friend

[@Chadi]

Thank you Carlos

[@peacewarrior]

Where can I find more in on kenpachi murai , I can't find any, no text no pictures, which makes me think he's a fake person, but show me the evidence.

[@Chadi]

In the description! It's mostly japanese sources

[@fudoshinda]

Yeah and not 1 photo of him

[@peacewarrior]

Ueshiba was undefeatable!

[@nicolasartheau822]

Very good and interesting vidéo .............of Tochiro Mifune!

[@luigicannizzo2669]

Many Thank' s Mr. Chadi ... 😊😀😁/👍👌👏

[@Chadi]

Thank you Luigi

[@eugenedalen6421]

This remains a hearsay without any reference...Newspapers, photo or video? I could easily say, I beat him myself during those times in my past life....

[@Chadi]

This is according to daito ryu sources (description), and also the hokkai times, he was in high school meaning 1905 1906 who's gonna film him?

[@eugenedalen6421]

@@Chadi I have read a lot about Daito Ryu articles from a legit lineage but haven't learn about this one.... Anyways, thanks for posting, I will research more about this one....

[@eugenedalen6421]

@@Chadi Nothing in Google the name Kenpachi Murai.... I only found Kenpachi Zaraki in Bleach anime....I stop the research, we can't prove it anyways....

[@Chadi]

@@eugenedalen6421 www2.odn.ne.jp/meiqbudokan/mori14.html Read it fully

[@HollyNihon]

@@eugenedalen6421 If you can't use Japanese at a professional level, you can't do research on Japanese judoka,

[@HollyNihon]

According to ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%9D%91%E4%BA%95%E9%A1%95%E5%85%AB , in 1958, he had a plan to spread Hakko-Ryu Jujutsu to France, some records of his activities in France probably exist on French newspaper articles that were published after 1958.

[@Chadi]

Thank you for this

[@Gieszkanne]

I doubt this about Sokaku Takeda & Morihei Ueshiba. There is no real evidence about this. Also why he later went with Hakko Ryu Ju Jutsu what is a branch from Daito Ryu if his Judo is better?!

[@MrBluemanworld]

Great videos. Here's an inside scope for you. Many considered Hidekazu Nagaoka to be the best 10th Dan. No matter he was thrown with, he killed everyone with Uki Waza.

[@Chadi]

He was a legend

[@ruiseartalcorn]

Very interesting!

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@ryanrobles4832]

Why would he study Hakko Ryu later on when it is very much like Daito Ryu? Its founder was one of the last students of Takeda.

[@chinolatino9663]

Excellent question!!! I thought the same!!! Not saying the story is a lie, but this event makes me think.

[@ryanrobles4832]

@@chinolatino9663 a very well respected martial arts practioner and author told me that the Kodokan has no record of the guy.

[@JustMe-vz3wd]

i understand, as a content creator one has to continually create new content. but lets be honest its just bs.

[@stefanobio7045]

Hi Chadi....thank you for another great and informative video.....ref futher Judo videos you may want to look at Brian Jacks, and Trevor Leggett 2 of the UK's best judoka.....can you please include more Japanese Ju-Jutsu? Thank you , best regards, Stefano.

[@Chadi]

I'm doing a video on UK Judo soon

[@stefanobio7045]

@@Chadi Thanks Chadi i am looking forward to watching that video, best regards Stefano.....

[@hendarinriandi1100]

I always love Judo, but is this a true story or just a fiction? Because with great talent that can overcome so many prominent martial artists, but almost no resources to confirm this story, it is hard to believe that Kenpachi Murai was a real person ....... When I was young I learn Judo at local dojo, and had plenty of books and conversations/discussions about Judo, Judo history etc. with friends, family ..... nowadays so many more information by means of internet, but I never heard or found any article from trusted source about this Kenpachi Murai unti I watch this video

[@santannakarate]

The video shows just Mifune. Not Murai.

[@Chadi]

Couldn't find footage of him

[@MrMrkonst1]

Chadi 6

[@stelcheck]

Saigo-ha Daito-Ryu isn't well known for either it's historical accuracy or for it's legitimacy. Japanese Wikipedia has more or less the same content, but no sources, and a quick Google search in Japanese only shows blog posts repeating the same story. Do you have more accurate sources you could point us to?

[@mnpli]

As I heard it; Mifune never competed, if true, I have no problem-accepting , Murai, defeating Mifune.

[@joshman234]

Hey Chadi, I love you videos they are always very interesting. Since you've been starting to make videos about Aikido again, i was wondering if you could do a video on the history and differences of the Iwama-ryu Aikido vs Aiki-kai aikido. I personally believe your opinion on Aikido is accurate in regards to the Aiki-kai style, but I think it may change a little if you look into Iwama-Ryu aikido, but then again maybe not haha. Here is link to my Sensei's channel who have trained in this style: kzbin.info/door/7Zd8ubEfVESQ9uqTiX4nTQ The videos are older but maybe you can see a difference compared to the Aikido we typically see on the internet. Anyway, just thought it would be a cool idea for a video to talk about the history and the separation of the Aiki-kai and the Iwama-ryu. Thanks!

[@Wolfedog]

We are supposed to take your word for it?

[@Chadi]

Links in the description

[@Wolfedog]

@@Chadi One's a blog where random people can post so, not solid reporting work on that one. The other link is talking about how to strangle a human without leaving marks. Am I missing something? If this is an opinion post it should be noted as such.

[@eduasanga1379]

Awesome, Story

[@jackphillipson3490]

Share the link you talk about

[@Chadi]

In the description

[@jackphillipson3490]

Well I had I look but could not any old new paper images ?

[@gmaylsuxcock]

Bunch of crap. Sounds like a judo practitioner trying to spin a tale of some judoka beating Takeda and Ueshiba. If judo is your thing then good for you. A good judoka could beat an aikido practitioner and vice versa. But don't spin this tale of some fictional character beating Takeda and Ueshiba. Ueshiba started his martial arts journey doing judo but he found something about it lacking. Years later he bumps into Takeda and his techniques greatly influenced Ueshiba's eventual development of aikido. Martial arts is a continually evolving process. And to throw in a video of Mifune. Come on man!

[@jayim7996]

Have you ever done research on Keiko Fukuda. She was a student of Jigoro Kano. Her grandfather, Fukuda Hachinosuke, taught Tenjin Shinyō-ryū jujutsu.

[@Chadi]

I did a video on her life

[@nappyheaded]

Looking at the comments, I know you guys think these guys are gods but it's still very possible for them to lose.

[@Chadi]

Everyone loses

[@AiShinDS]

Wrong from beginning to end.

[@ASISHNABEL]

I humbly disagree with the content here. First of all, "stories" always should have more than one side, so this documentary is questionable. Secondly, a Martial art is never effective or ineffective. It's just a tool. It is the ARTIST that stretches their skills by using a martial art. Maybe Murai was talented and won the other opponents, but would anybody practicing the same as he would won similar battles?

[@carlos0259774]

Anyone knows if Murai ever met the founder of modern Judo ... Jigoro Kano ??

[@kodakanjudo]

Very historical

[@Chadi]

Links in the description if you're interested

[@oscardominguez2468]

Uns vez mas en esa epoca se habia impuesto la newaza , mataemon tenia razon , por eso la importancia de judo arriba,judo newaza