Challenge 70 DEFEATED - Rain World: Downpour

[@vadandrumist1670]

I know it's harder than it looks, but either this iterator is really bad at fighting or Pebbles is really good seeing as how the latter will just instant-kill you.

[@kingly8491]

Pebbles is a much newer design then sos so naturally pebbles would be stronger. It's kinda like how the iPhone 14 has a better camera then the IPhone 13. The only difference is that instead of cameras the difference is superstructure design, attack power, and machine life span

[@big_sis_moon]

Pebbles is imo a more accurate look at how an iterator would retaliate. Challenge 70 is meant to be fair and give the player a chance to win, Pebbles was just tired of all the slugcats. I'm sure SoS would insta-kill Saint as well

[@AdaTheWatcher]

​@@big_sis_moon My personal theory is that saint's first ascension shot messed up her accuracy calculation to a degree, so she's fighting with a more primitive aiming calculation.

[@big_sis_moon]

@@AdaTheWatcher It's possible, especially as Saint's powers are pretty vague, but the only enemy I'm aware of that requires multiple ascensions to defeat is a guardian, and those are only seen in Rubicon, which further complicates the matter. Besides being the only iterator to die, there is no evidence Straw was special compared to a regular iterator. Besides this, as Challenge 70 is almost certainly not canon, we do not know how accurate this depiction even is to the real SoS.

[@elshelalu2027]

would he even get a chance to kill you considering that ascensions are a OHKO?

[@furyleferret2288]

Despite not being canon This fight gives some insight as to how an Iterator would hipotetically fight if they ever needed to. All we saw before was just 5P's little sparky circle

[@bbjuice7837]

Honestly this one could be canon. We know Saint ascended SoS first.

[@Paradee477]

The fight could be canon though, Silver of Straw DID ascend first, so how do we know this ISN’T how?

[@Khoi16]

@@Paradee477 totally, in spearmaster’s campaign (spoilers), a broadcast states that sliver of straw suddenly died with no explanation after figuring out the solution, this very well could have been it, killed by Saint

[@RainWorldEnjoyer]

@@Khoi16 we also knew that before…

[@rokibeeskiroodroki9018]

@@Paradee477 because the devs said so

[@ez9566]

The void just absorbs those who are in attunement with their world. The saint can use that attunement to let others ascend, though the mechanism is still unclear, though by definition, the ones dwelling in void fluid, the wormys, should have the "highest" attunement. Because the worm cant and doesnt want to ascend, it can only use the karma of living creatures, wich it feasts on. Either by breaking the cycle of creatures or just by changing the karma with that unnatural method, the saint gives his karma away to the worm and because it doesnt kill either one of them, the saint has no karma anymore. Like a wound inside the void, he now gets expelled again, essentially deleting his karma and cycle and beginning anew.

[@Significantharrassment]

OOOOOOH so that's why he become an echo at the end

[@ghostphantom8453]

​@@Significantharrassmentactually you could technically not be an echo tho he does become one it's kinda shows he isn't really like the other echos he's something very different and outside of the cycle as we can see from his/her/their ending

[@Chickenfayce251]

god rat vs robot sans

[@jeremycroes6333]

Saint Entity = 1 Sliver of Straw Iterator = *0*

[@ssneakyandfriends1626]

Totally first try aswell.

[@jeremycroes6333]

@@ssneakyandfriends1626 Saint: " *shhhhh don't say that* "

[@think127]

Starts from the death screen

[@mini-bit9260]

there is a strong air of ominous-ness to this, like world itself here isn't supposed to be here it is quite cool i'll give it that as for the lore ish implications of the scenario here (even if many here have said that challenges aren't cannon), i have heard something about saint having to do with sos's condition, so it is interesting to see a challenge inspired by that idea, even if in world it would be highly implausible for this exact scenario to occur even with saint's interesting position here, though this need not remove saint, or perhaps something related to saint, from what could have happened entirely also i like how they did sos's voice

[@Splashzone263]

i imagine his last thoughts as he sent out the message was "Triple Affirmative..."

[@monkeydad47]

*she

[@hollowknightenjoyer]

@@monkeydad47 *nerd

[@AMBATUKAMceo]

​@@monkeydad47its a woman?

[@neostrophe5003]

the devs confirmed challenge 70 to not be canon, though. SoS died long before saint was born, and before the snow caused slugcats to develop fur

[@hollowknightenjoyer]

@@neostrophe5003 thats not related at all?

[@tortesh1635]

Congratulations!

[@BrianTheDrummer]

Thank you! :)

[@ConvergingWinter]

From how long it took them to make that dating sim, I wonder how long it took to make those challeneges

[@GoldballIndustries]

How long did it take?

[@ConvergingWinter]

@@GoldballIndustries In the dating sim while talking to Spearmaster, I don't remember the thing but they did mention that it took awhile. Either that or Andrew kept delaying the DLC lol

[@the711devin4]

@@GoldballIndustries in the dating sim they say that it took up over 3 moths of production

[@GoldballIndustries]

@@the711devin4 3 Moths? Shame, having 4 Moths could have really helped out.

[@the711devin4]

@@GoldballIndustries They considered it, but 4 moths would’ve had the chance to count as animal cruelty, so they aired on the safe side.

[@gaminglord5637]

I'm so disappointed that they didn't give the iterator a death icon

[@ka-boom2083]

It is said that silver of straw once found the triple affirmative and ascended immediately... is this it?

[@bbjuice7837]

Spoiler: Yes, Saint is the Solution.

[@rokibeeskiroodroki9018]

@@bbjuice7837 none of the challenges are canon, not even slightly, as stated by a dev

[@tooevol]

@@rokibeeskiroodroki9018 but it does seem to be suspicious that this is a challenge for Saint, sure that the challenge isn’t canon, but dosnt mean that saint never was the one who ascended SOS They could have chosen ANY Iterator and yet They chose SOS

[@rokibeeskiroodroki9018]

@@tooevol they said none of the challenges were canon when specifically asked about the canonicty of challenge 70, I’d say that invalidates your point entirely

[@rokibeeskiroodroki9018]

And a much more logical reason for choosing sos is because they already had been shown to have connections to ascension in canon, and to provide another canon iterator design Saint has fur/frills, evolved/adapted specifically for the cold, why would they have such features in a time hundreds or possibly thousands of years before the cold was an issue, when sos existed Even ignoring the words of the developers, it makes 0 sense

[@ness6714]

Never would I thought I'd see a literal boss fight in this game

[@hollowknightenjoyer]

His dying sounds are terrifying

[@Artificer_]

*her /nm

[@hollowknightenjoyer]

@@Artificer_ why did you say "nanometer'

[@Artificer_]

@@hollowknightenjoyer /nm means "not mean/mad" but nanometer is funny

[@hollowknightenjoyer]

@@Artificer_ thanks

[@hollowknightenjoyer]

@@Artificer_ you still were real annoying tho

[@nikitaivanow9099]

assuming that Sliver Of Straw found the solution that is tripple affirmative, that saint is indeed triple affirmative, AND that devs said that this challenge isn't cannon, i can suppose that or sliver of straw created some creature that can possess other creatures which will get same abilities as Saint OR, which has more chances to be true, Sliver Of Straw just created some device and accidently killed itself and then some other iterator way later created saint

[@gwenie23100]

I cant believe I was ascended by a little green thing

[@justcallmeleonardo]

After a month of trying I still can't really beat phase 2. The circle spawn too quickly for me to react. This is the last thing left for me to do in the game, but man I think I'll be giving up on it soon. Well done on somehow doing it

[@elshelalu2027]

hey man don't give up the boss fight has a lot of RNG, one day you'll get a lucky run

[@justcallmeleonardo]

@@elshelalu2027 I haven't done attempts in a while. After getting stuck on phase 2 it kind of tired ne out. I've tried doing what people online told me to but I don't, I still can't get far. It annoys me to leave it there because I've done everything else in the game but like, I have no idea how to do this fight lol.

[@shadowbonbon3]

@@justcallmeleonardophase two is simple just stay near SOS and don’t be afraid to use ascension briefly to move away from the corners

[@FearlessJJR]

there are faint lines in the background and where they intersect is where the circles spawn this might not be what you're talking about but it took me a while to notice it

[@cryptocoder5553]

I am pretty much visioning that SoS is testing the Saint's skill.

[@MasterIsabelle]

Considering that sliver of straw ascended after sending the triple affirmative, I like to think SOS sent the transmission while fighting Saint like that one meme where vegeta opens up twitter in the middle of a fight to tell everyone he’s getting his ass whooped

[@GoldballIndustries]

Great Work *Gamer*

[@JossOwX]

Man. I got spoiled I guess sliver of straw exists in the game

[@BrianTheDrummer]

My apologies, I changed the title/thumbnail now

[@moscovium-289]

Fortunately or unfortunately, it's non canon. At least to my knowledge, that's what people said.

[@WhatAHandleThisIs_]

@@moscovium-289 I’m pretty sure them fighting or something isn’t canon and sliver of straw surviving the ascension attack I don’t think is canon, but I do think it’s canon partially with saint being the one to ascend sliver and saint being the solution

[@moscovium-289]

I believe it was disclosed by the developers that all challenges aren't canon or linked to the lore, even if it seems awfully similar to that of the triple affirmative.

[@tooevol]

@@moscovium-289 I think it’s just that they arent canon

[@improved764]

I know this was 7 months ago but its still incredible work

[@AB-xx6gy]

imagine if this was canon

[@Australia-hehe]

Good job!

[@atlas16198]

Wait, does this imply Saint is the triple affirmative? Or at least a slugcat similar to it?

[@bbjuice7837]

Yep

[@Paradee477]

No, the devs said that Challenge 70 isn’t canon. The only thing canon about it is SoS’s design

[@rokibeeskiroodroki9018]

@@bbjuice7837 wrong

[@baaaldur]

@@Paradee477 That doesn't change that Saint is the triple affirmative. In their own campaign they're capable of ascending Pebbles and Moon, and any other being for that matter

[@tooevol]

@@baaaldur plus having ascend SOS as a challenge is very suspicious They could have chosen ANY OTHER ITERATOR and yet they chose SOS The Iterator that got can only ascended when they found the triple affirmative

[@johnnyyang2931]

4:48 That sounds like "yes"...

[@fabiopauli420]

i think its actually sliver as they send the 3 affirmative

[@maurothetoad]

​@@fabiopauli420nah sadly challenge 70 is not Canon and sliver died WAY before Saint was even born

[@fabiopauli420]

@@maurothetoad i see where you are comming from but i wanna disagree. Remember in Rainworld nothing can truely die. We dont know when Saint is born, for all we know they could have been created by Sliver, ascended Sliver, sliver sends triple affirmative, and than proceed to travel the land ascending iterators along the way

[@maurothetoad]

@@fabiopauli420 No, sliver found a way to ascend but it was NOT saint, this is jsut confirmed

[@fabiopauli420]

@@maurothetoad source?

[@TimelinesOfMaybe]

This could’ve been a really fun fight but The problem with this boss fight is that the first 3 phases are really boring, easy, and repetitive, and then phase 4 is luck based followed by the nigh impossible phase 5, and this is a problem because you can’t get good at phase 5 without practice but you need to get lucky to even reach phase 5 to even be able to practice it which is stupid. It would be a way better experience if there was a checkpoint after phase 3

[@justcallmeleonardo]

I haven't even got past phase 2 more than a couple of times. Have no idea how you find it easy

[@TimelinesOfMaybe]

@@justcallmeleonardo stay really close to S.O.S, basically hug them. Use the ascension to stabilize and then tounge around if you need to dodge an attack

[@justcallmeleonardo]

@@TimelinesOfMaybe That's what I've been doing. But I keep dying because a circle spawns over SOS and I can't move away in time, thus dying. I'm genuenly starting to think this is just impossible lol

[@Hedge_the_Hog]

Why killing the "puppet" shuts down whole iterator? Aren't they supposed to be supercomputers with their "brains" being the whole facility?

[@Phone-eater]

honestly I think that's why it takes so many "ascensions" to kill them because you're bit by bit killing the entire thing (this isn't how it works on moon or pebbs because when saint meets them they are basically just their puppets)

[@underplague6344]

You're not killing them technically, you're "ascending" them, which probably targets their spirit rather than their actual body.

[@azzurradurigon1945]

I'm pretty sure the puppet IS like the central part of everything, the part that is most aware. I don't think normally destroying the puppet would kill an iterator, but SoS isn't being killed, after all.

[@azzkin9401]

​@@azzurradurigon1945destroying the puppet would likely kill the iterator, we see both with pebbles and moon that if the puppet gets disconnected from the rest of the structure, the puppet is almost all they have left.

[@azzurradurigon1945]

@@azzkin9401 that is because the entire superstructure died first. If the puppet got separated i don't know what would happen, but if it died i don't think the structure would follow. They'd still be alive, just unable to do some things. (If we're thinking about challenge 70, i think the attack targeted the spirit, rather than the structure itself. Since the puppet is what iterators use to interact physically with the world that comes into their chambers, i believe it would be where their spirit is most present, unless it was incapacitated somehow.)

[@LordTelperion]

Triple Affirmative!

[@Necyar]

No one is talking about how good her sound design is

[@geesxing]

deltarune chapter 70 looking wild

[@edgyiguana2519]

Can't get phase 4 consistent, phase 5 seems doable, but I never get a chance to practice it

[@tsumakana4185]

how can you predict the circles from 2 and 4?

[@BrianTheDrummer]

There are faint lines across the screen, the intersection of those is where the circles are centered

[@JNJNRobin1337]

they speak, but what do they say?

[@shadowbonbon3]

This would be easy if it wasn’t for its 5th attack it kinda hurts just looking at it let alone moving with it

[@Elite.customs_479]

I’m stuck on challenge 2 ffs 🤦‍♂️

[@soop3919]

this is vanilla??

[@flameyoshi07]

From the new dlc

[@soop3919]

@@flameyoshi07 it's like an i wanna be the guy fan game

[@shrombusawesome9780]

@@soop3919 it's the final challenge in challenge mode, they get kind of silly in the final few- like getting a gun.

[@mystery62668]

Little green cat vs god

[@Necyar]

More like god vs god

[@gd5104]

show developer commentary mode plz

[@bobconer5240]

it weird how there's no music for this

[@rokibeeskiroodroki9018]

Back with more information: Devs said *Saint is not very important in the grand scheme of things, none of the slugcats are, they’re just creatures* *saint never saw rain* And finally, *Sliver of straw died long before Saint was a thing*

[@hjack6463]

Then why would they use sliver of straw and not just five pebbles, it seems poorly thought out

[@rokibeeskiroodroki9018]

@@hjack6463 beats me, ask them, I have the links to where they said it if you need it, but no matter what, it’s not canon Gee, it’s almost like the challenges are just meant to be fun or something

[@seg_fault884]

@@rokibeeskiroodroki9018 You seem awfully mad over people speculating something that is very clearly being alluded to within game

[@rokibeeskiroodroki9018]

@@seg_fault884 something that is very clearly stated by devs

[@algoprism2833]

@@rokibeeskiroodroki9018 "Clearly" - well, only really if you happen to be in the loop. Many of us can't really be asked to find this information ourselves, or something along those lines -- and I kinda like that too. I dislike the idea of trying to find exactly whats canon and not, and letting yourself try piece together thoughts and accept what is, based only on whats there. Each to their own though. Thanks for giving this information regardless. Im sure many will appreciate it.

[@deltawarrior2323]

You guys think someone’s gonna make an undertale fangame out of this?

[@Necyar]

Would be too easy

[@FivePebbles_OrErraticPulse]

@@Necyarit takes hundreds of attempts to get right

[@Necyar]

@@FivePebbles_OrErraticPulse that's because Saint flies with inertia, the undertale red soul has nothing to do with acceleration movement, making the same obstacles extremely easy in Undertale

[@sifumonkey78]

dang phase 4 is hardest for me and I think i could beat phase 5 and 6 if i had time to practice them but i can't get past phase 4 most of the time

[@zergrush8709]

I can’t do that

[@shashibossard99]

Whao

[@binathiessen4920]

This is so silly.

[@Matheus-gc5fn]

the title should be: SLIVER OF STRAWS BEING BEATEN UP BY A CAT WHILE INFECTED BY GRAY ROT !!!! !!1!1! !😱😱😱😱(sad)

[@c26f]

sans?

[@flissbits4675]

bro with the spoiler title and thumbnail huh

[@Burger19985]

not canon

[@WhatAHandleThisIs_]

@@Burger19985 partially canon

[@kingly8491]

​​@@WhatAHandleThisIs_nope,not Canon at all. Saint didn't even exist when sos died

[@barsozuguler4300]

Suddenly... Undertale

[@JudeEaley]

Do you have to be saint for this?

[@Piatnopch]

Sans undertale

[@loggersviii1228]

This is the dumbest boss fight ever to me because sliver of straw could just kill you. She could manipulate gravity and pop your head open like a water balloon. There is no in game reason she doesn’t. The reason is “so there could be a boss fight”. Why doesn’t she cover the entire room in orbs? Because then there wouldn’t be a boss fight. Why doesn’t she shoot all the lasers at once instead of circling? There wouldn’t be a boss fight. This doesn’t even make sense in the context of the lore. Why would killing the puppet kill the iterator? It wouldn’t. It’s made very clear that the puppets are not necessary for the functioning of an iterator. They are literally giant computers. Destroying that tiny puppet would do nothing.

[@algoprism2833]

Applying your learned skills and accepting it was interesting and challenging gimick - nothing else like it in the game VS Striving for Lore Accuracy, asking a bunch of hypotheticals in a world where feral lifeforms interact with the affairs of Gods living inside of tin cans. I suppose you arent exactly wrong? But it doesent sound like you're having fun either.

[@loggersviii1228]

@@algoprism2833 if all you can appreciate rain world as is a video game to be played and a challenge to be overcome, I respect it. But it doesn’t sound like you’re having as much fun as I am, when I appreciate the world as something alive, realistic and beautiful. I’m not striving for lore accuracy. I’m striving for realism, which is something the original game achieved beautifully and that is sadly absent in the dlc. I don’t play rain world because I want to simply play a video game all the way through and be done with it. The original game broke established conventions of the medium, in a beautiful and unique way. Downpour is a glorified mod that has none of the games original identify. And it’s that original identity that makes this boss fight so awful.

[@loggersviii1228]

@@algoprism2833 also, the statement “striving for hypotheticals in a world where feral life forms interact with the affairs of Gods living in tin cans”, while at least mildly poetic, is meaningless. It means nothing, contributes nothing to your comment. It’s just a pretty way of saying “don’t criticize things”.

[@algoprism2833]

@@loggersviii1228 What i'm getting at is, at least to me, this boss fight is no crazier than the rest of the of this game and its lore. I'd honestly be unsuprised if there was some sort of pearl that stated how different itterators fought or something. I wouldnt call it out of the realms of possibility. But on a general stance, My worry from what ive seen across comments, this and alike, is focusing too close on coherence and intricacies of things that end up overshadowing the actual interactive stuff, or moreso, just the intentions of a challenge - Please correct me if I am wrong! Accuracy aside, did you at find it at least fun? I hold no hostility by the way, but I am curious as to what you'd think could be better.

[@loggersviii1228]

@@algoprism2833 oh yeah, no hostility from me either. In case it wasn’t clear, I’ll be more concise. The boss fight doesn’t make sense because it… doesn’t make sense!!! The game is breaking internal consistency for the sake of there being a boss fight. This is always bad, in ANY GAME. But it’s doubly bad here because rain world is such a focused, realistic experience. Everything in the game I can look at and think “this is likely how this would happen in real life”. Or “this makes sense within the context of the game”. Neither of those are applicable here. It’s the game breaking both its own internal rules and the rules it has told DIRECTLY TO YOU. You can’t excuse it by saying “there might be lore somewhere that somewhat explains why this happens possibly” (there isn’t). As for enjoyment, rain world is my second favorite game ever made, and an unparalleled masterpiece at what it does. Rain world downpour and rain world remix imo are half assed attempts at publicity so videocult can make some money to fund future updates. Again, no ill will or anything. It would be silly of me to be mad at someone for having a different opinion.