Challenger Approaching: Decidueye Character Concept

[@muno]

I definitely agree that Decidueye should be a sniper / setup-based fighter, staying in the shadows and striking from a distance to eventually land a kill. However, I do have a handful of critiques and concerns with the moveset as it's presented. The ingame stats of a Pokémon, while having a big effect on gameplay in that series, are not always one-to-one with a Pokémon's design and given characteristics. For example, Decidueye and the rest of its line are portrayed as being able to fly quickly through the air, swooping down for quick, almost hit-and-run like attacks. Thus, while Decidueye could be given slow running speed to reflect its slow Speed stat in Pokémon (where it is always portrayed as standing on the ground), its air speed and acceleration would benefit from being up there with the best of them, to allow it to control the airspace effectively. This combined with an effective fast-fall and multiple jumps would not only make it good at burst mobility and a bit of keep-away (balanced by its low endurance), but would also give Decidueye the unique role of aerial sniper. Attack a foe from the air with projectiles, and then swoop in with a melee attack to begin an aerial combo when the opportunity arises - for example, with a divekick like you gave it as its down aerial. Perhaps it could be performed at a 45* angle, so that Decidueye can transition more effectively from ranged, air-to-ground sniping into a melee combo? On that note, arrow shots being limited to smash attacks also seems unfitting, as it prevents Decidueye from using them in midair. Given its status as a bird of flight, descriptions of its prior evolutions, and multiple jumps, Decidueye would naturally have a sizable reliance on aerial combat, so it seems odd to limit its signature form of attack - releasing an arrow from its wing-bow - to a grounded move. Leaf arrows being on smashes doesn't really lend anything unique in terms of gameplay compared to simply putting it on a special move, either. What I might do, then, is put Decidueye's arrow-firing technique on its neutral special. Holding the control stick in various directions, while we're at it, could also allow for a multitude of trick shots, such as a curved trajectory, a loop-de-loop, or firing an arrow into the sky to have it rain down a few seconds later. Uncharged, Decidueye would loose an arrow in only one tenth of a second, at the cost of the arrow being weak. When fully charged, in addition to added damage, it would gain the effects of Spirit Shackle, allowing Spirit Shackle itself to be powerful without being broken (since it needs to be charged). Tricky arrow angles as well as Spirit Shackle would make this move stand out from other bow-and-arrow attacks in the Smash series. Speaking of Spirit Shackle, its current effect seems rather gimmicky, and if the opponent can still dodge while shackled, it seems as though it might not be as useful for actually landing reliable follow-up attacks. Given that, I would probably just give it an effect similar to Corrin's pin - while the aforementioned charge helps with balance, the telegraphed sweetspot in your version of Spirit Shackle might also be able to get away with it depending on how long the pin lasts. If it were a true pin, it would allow Decidueye to swoop in from above with a follow-up attack after landing the move, like how it is described as attacking in its descriptions. On the subject of gimmicky moves, you say near the beginning of the video that moves should not be added to a moveset just because of the source material, as that can lead to gimmicky and unfitting moves. I wholeheartedly agree with this... which is why I criticize the inclusion and implementation of Foresight. While it is a move that Decidueye's line can learn via level-up, it does not mesh very well with its character as a whole, nor does it further the core of Decidueye's gameplay. Aside from the fact that the point-blank move does not seem to deal any hitstun, which makes it extremely unsafe to use, it also seems odd for a sniper with low endurance to want to get in an opponent's face like this. The effect itself, removing the foe's ability to dodge, also disrupts the opponent's gameplay, completely invalidating one of Smash's core options and inevitably messing with balance. While Foresight is the main thing that makes Spirit Shackle useful, it might make it *too* effective at trapping opponents - and the variable of Foresight which makes Spirit Shackle either too weak or too strong could be simplified by simply giving it a normal pin effect. Its current effect is indeed something that has not been seen in Smash before, but Spirit Shackle could still be unique to Dragon Lunge by being a long-ranged pin move, as well as its use in combination with the rest of Decidueye's moveset. While you didn't go into detail on Decidueye's standard attacks, aerial combos are perhaps the one area where Foresight would work together with the rest of its moveset, preventing opponents from escaping a wall-of-pain using an airdodge. Still, I think that there are better options as far as a down special goes. Overall, the moveset has some solid ideas, and gets Decidueye's core role as a sniper down. However, the choice and implementation of some moves is iffy, and it misses out on the unique potential of an air-based projectile sniper, an archetype which has not really been seen in Smash so far and would lead to unique gameplay and strategies.

[@Delzethin]

Wow, that's quite the response. Lemme see if I can clear up any of my thought process: -I gave Decidueye mediocre air speed to help give off the idea that their wings have developed in ways built for things other than flight. They're not as aerodynamic as their younger stages, and so I wanted to reflect that. Plus, I didn't want to give Decidueye too many projectiles to use in the air because honestly, a character with the traits you describe would be _infuriating_ to fight against. Can you imagine if Jiggs could sit back or stay above you and rain down projectiles so you couldn't ever get to her, then take off as soon as you got there with air mobility faster than some characters' running speed? We'd be talking a character more conducive to timeouts than even Sonic! Does that sound like a character who gets flustered when direct pressure is put on them to you? -I made Spirit Shackle's effect less powerful than a pin because then it'd be easy to get a pin, sit back, and charge a fsmash all the way for free. It'd be frustrating as hell to be on the receiving end of, and since all the original move does is prevent escape and not paralyze or prevent all actions, I took a risk with something that'd feel more original and less like a reskin of an existing special. So instead of Decidueye getting a free powerful hit from _waaay_ across the stage, it'd make most of Decidueye's attacks 50-50 situations for a few seconds. The opponent still has agency, but their options are limited. -The intent behind Foresight is to be something to use on rare occasions when an opponent is getting close or something to trap their landing with, not something you chase _them_ down to use. The hitbox would be decent sized, though you make a good point about it needing at least a little hitstun to keep it from being unsafe on hit. I had my own concerns about it being too powerful, which is why I added in the Witch Time-style diminishing duration and having the debuff end faster if the target does get hit out of a dodge. ...Though to be honest, the main reason I went with it was because it felt more solid than other options. Something like U-Turn didn't fit the concept!

[@muno]

- Given Decidueye's design, with its large wings that can be tucked in tight like a cloak as well as its ability to close its hood into a cone shape, I would argue that it has only become *more* aerodynamic in the transition from the ball-shaped Rowlet and, to a lesser extent, Dartrix. After evolving into Decidueye, it even learns the move Brave Bird, where it "tucks in its wings and charges from a low altitude," accompanied by a flashy ingame animation. Regarding balance concerns, the key to this lies in Decidueye's aerials. If Decidueye lacks a good hitbox below itself - accomplished by its dair being a 45* dive like I talked about in my previous comment, leaving it wide open due to landing lag if it misses - then dealing with opponents below it could actually be quite tricky. The impression that I get from Decidueye's expertly-aimed shots is one of precision, a fighter that performs best when it has time to prepare. Thus, it could have aerials that are powerful when Decidueye is attacking on its own terms, but are too precise to escape pressure. For example, a nair that takes the form of a spin with its wing similar to Marth's could be very useful for comboing if given the right knockback, but its precise hitboxes would make it ineffective for landing or escaping combos. Thus, the key to battling Decidueye is to get underneath it, past its projectile rain, and attack it when it is most vulnerable. Every part of a character's moveset affects every other part, so when considering what to add to a moveset, it's important to see if potential concerns with one aspect can be resolved by tweaking another area of the moveset - such as addressing concerns with Decidueye's stats by making adjustments to its aerial attacks. - This is largely a game of numbers, and how long the pin should last / how powerful Decidueye's ranged moves should be / etc. The main thing about the pin is that it would be difficult to land, since the projectile would need to be fully charged for it to activate (using my version of nspec that's built with this Spirit Shackle in mind, of course). So it makes sense for Decidueye to get a sizable amount of damage off of landing the move. I would also make it so that Decidueye's up-close moves (such as the divekick) are stronger than its ranged moves are, making for a dynamic playstyle where Decidueye transitions from air-to-ground sniping to swooping in with a melee attack and comboing from there. Spirit Shackle would be hard to land, but create a massive opening for that transition if you manage to pull it off. - My main concern with Foresight as a concept is that it messes with how the opponent plays the game on a fundamental level. Between 50-50s, landing, out-of-shield options, and general "instinct" based reactions, dodging is just too core an element of Smash to mess with in my opinion. The idea is similar to what you touched on with the Inkling's ink, and the idea of it potentially slowing down opponents or limiting their jump height. Just like how ink that slows the opponent down would require a player to learn combos, setups, etc specifically for the Inkling matchup, Foresight requires players to change the majority of their defensive play by removing a huge amount of options. The effect also does not mesh particularly well with Decidueye's core concept and playstyle, aside from making its projectiles even more annoying to deal with due to the lack of dodges. I will say, though, that Decidueye's down special has definitely stumped me before. One idea that I had was a multi-purpose move. On the ground, its down special would be Grass Knot, used to place a trap on the ground that causes a dashing opponent to trip once before disappearing. While handy for stopping opponents from running in at full speed, it could easily be avoided by walking more slowly, jumping over it, or potentially destroying it with an attack. Additionally, it would only trip the foe once before disappearing, and placing it would require Decidueye to leave the air and descend to the ground, vulnerable to attack during the animation. This would be worth it, though, as a successful trip is a great opportunity to swoop down with an attack! In midair, since placing a Grass Knot would be difficult without any actual ground to put it on, its down special could instead be mapped to a command-grab, where Decidueye grabs an opponent below it with its talons, able to fly a short distance with the opponent in tow before throwing them. Like an air-based Cargo Throw, this would also be a good way to attack from above even if the opponent tries to shield your attack (or has been conditioned to shield by your barrage of projectiles), as a mix-up. Of course, this could come with the risk of punishable ending lag if the foe dodges the command-grab, as well as the fact that most normal moves will beat it out.

[@zab1142]

Munomario777 too much reading

[@andresmarrero8666]

Munomario777 I like your version better. Those wings are still wings and are still capable of aerodynamic flight quite easily. It's an owl after all.

[@Skides]

I think Razor Leaf should definitely be Leafage but other than that great concept!

[@humanratteler9760]

I was scared you wouldn’t acknowledge spirit shackle.

[@erickmaverick3128]

I have several choices of characters that you could use in your next video: Banjo-Kazooie Bomberman Wolf Link and Midna Sora (for Kingdom Hearts 15th anniversary) Takamaru (The Mysterious Murasame Castle) Take your pick.

[@porkhill6665]

Erick Maverick Takamaru the character neglected for over 30 years

[@Nikowo1610]

Midna

[@thegreatjman1999]

On the subject of Pokemon, Greninja's Final Smash really should be changed to Ash Greninja

[@Delzethin]

It depends. We're not talking about a fully new Smash game yet, just another version of Smash 4 that seems poised to have new content. Would they alter how a Final Smash functions in just one version of a game? I'm inclined to believe they wouldn't. Maybe if they just had Greninja change appearance while he performed the same Final Smash...but as is, I don't see them giving him a completely new one until Smash 5 comes around.

[@thelavaslug5465]

@Widdy SSBU It literally did tho. He transforms into Ash-Greninja, then does the attack.

[@undercoverchicken6268]

If this happens i will scream as hard that the aliens can here me

[@coolgamer-lc8rv]

In anger or in joy.

[@nafe516]

Look at their profile

[@caviaporcellus7253]

too bad they chose incineroar

[@UltimateDragonX9999]

UndercoverChicken there’s hope that rillaboom grookeys final evolution that is a grass can make it into smash ultimate and complete the type trio starters.

[@bryanwoo8415]

@@UltimateDragonX9999 Also the generations line up

[@kenthuang436]

I’d love to see Decidueye in Smash! I think it is a shoo in for the next game and I can picture Decidueye fighting similarly to its Pokken appearance. Its Final Smash I can see as being its Sinister Arrow Raid Z-Move.

[@spongyoshi]

I really hope we get Decidueye, that would be neat! Brave Bird would be so cool especially!

[@cyntrovert5005]

All his moves including his legs could have a sweet spot on his talons, as sort of a "Secondary Gimmick to add to his already minimal Gimmick.

[@SleepyKaiju7]

This is amazing! This is the proper way to promote a character! Honestly the moment I saw the leaks back in spring of 2016 I wanted Decidueye in Smash bros. I can see it now...his splash art intro saying: Decidueye 'Leaves' no Trace!

[@enzoul777]

OH I get it. You see, when I said the next episode would be either Decidueye or Silvally, I didn't think you'd pick BOTH. Anyways, this moveset is the kind I'd want to play but wouldn't be able to master, however... PLEASE GIVE ME INKLINGS, CAPTAIN TOAD AND DECIDUEYE SAKURAI.

[@charlierose7153]

I love this series, and its especially impressive how you really do pull ideas from every aspect of a character's game and design, whilst keeping smash bros' game balance in mind. Top quality stuff, hope you get more recognition in the future!

[@I_Am_Ion]

Nice concept! I especially like the idea of what Foresight could do!

[@supermariomadness2510]

I can imagine the move Sucker Punch working like a Counter Attack

[@starpetalarts6668]

I like including a lot of ghost moves rather than grass moves in my moveset.

[@quickattacks7279]

Honestly to be honest I think this move set would work: Neutral Special Spirit Shackle: Does 3 percent damage when not held, when held this attack does 5 percent and stuns Opponents for just about 0.5 seconds. Dizzy Arrow: Does 2 percent when not held, does 3 percent when held and applies dizziness to Opponent. (AKA Shield Break.) Leafage: Has 1.5 times the range of Spirit Shackle but has no additional effects, 3 damage when not held, and does 6 when held. Side Special Fury Attack: A rushing attack that on average, does 3 damage per hit. Feather Dance: An attack that does little damage but covers a ton of distance (Or about 8 Decidueye) Fury Strike: A single hit, does 11 damage it doesn’t go as far as fury attack Up Special Brave Bird: has two inputs the first has it fly up, and then the second causes it to loop and dive on the Opponent it takes “Recoil” damage or taking 4 damage on impact U-turn: first command will do the same thing as before. Butt the second command causes it to swoop back to it’s original position, this attack does chain damage (No Recoil damage) Gale Jump: does no damage and no second command, but flies much higher instead Down Special: Sucker Punch: a swift counterattack made for combo linking Stunning Sucker Punch: same as Sucker Punch but less damage and a stun effect Synthesis: heals Decidueye instead of dealing damage.

[@sapphicvenusian9464]

in hindsight, Decidueye would have been so much cooler than "gimmicky mediocre heavyweight #3" Also, in my experience, I think you're movesets are extremely well thought out. Compared to other KZbinrs who have tried to make movesets (i.e. Brawlfan1), but they end up feeling extremely gimmicky and/or not especially well thought out. Congrats! You've earned a sub!

[@devanarcher4196]

I love the time and thought put into this!!!

[@MrSero-vz6uy]

That was great and it makes me want to have Decidueye in Smash even more. I'd like to see your take on Lana from Hyrule Warriors with these videos.

[@rsnbrgjrdn]

Awesome and super well thought out! Wish you had more views :)

[@nith9815]

I have an idea for Decidueye's up special. It could use Leaf Storm, and the wind from the rapid moving leaves could propel it upwards, and it would be surrounded by leaves, dealing moderate damage.

[@TheBeggies95]

Wow i'm impressed, im new to your channel and i have to say that you have original ideas !! Very good video

[@mbtheking7457]

love it. Decidueye is a beast.

[@DJR_1999]

@delzenthing Decidueye Moveset: B Spirt Shackle - Acts like ZSS Neutral B by stunning people, but circles like Pac-man galaxian when fired. Side B - Razor Leaf - Acts like sheiks side B but 3 leafs are angled in different directions and goes a short range. Up B - Brave Bird - Acts like Meta Knights up B, but takes the player up and swoop back down like Ikes but you can angle where you land and you can cancel out it by attacks or dodging . Down B - Foresight - acts like a Counter, Luigi's old Final Smash mixed with Bayonetta's witch time, but each time someone attacks him it will infect a random status either stun, frozen, or slipping or a fire effect that doubles damage. Final Smash - Sinister Arrow Raid - (stage Smash ) it Acts like Ness, Pit's and Samus Final Smash but instead he flies up and unleashed a raid of arrows that do 10 to 15 damage and finishes with an arrow that goes in the center and explodes with a gray/ purple orb that kills anyone nearby. Taunts: 1- takes out his bow and prepares to aim. 2- closes his hood and hoots. 3- Opens his wing and glares at any nearby opponent. Wall Jump : No Crawl: No Jumps: 4 Walk Speed: Villager Run Speed: Olimar to Dr.Mario Hieght/Weight : around Greninja's or Lucario but for weight sorta like link or pit with metal box Grab like Mario Main Game Villager/Meta Knight Close and range combat

[@OscarScorp]

I just found out about this channel and I'm loving these videos. Just a single request for the next videos: When possible, could you use videos instead of screenshots when showing examples for each abilities? Keep up the good work! Maybe Megaman Zero (GBA series) next? hehe, a man can dream... Cheers!

[@Delzethin]

Well, do I have news for you. The more recent episodes do, in fact, use video clips in some sections!

[@Skyblade12]

Wish we could get this more visibility with the new "Decidueye in Pokken" announcement.

[@chrismaystar3014]

OH MY GOD I THOUGHT THE SAME THING ABOUT HIS MOVES! You are accurate in the right ways.😀

[@dreamtop6880]

I like the idea of Spirit Shackle, only maybe instead it should only loop and lock an opponent when it makes contact with them. To make it a better move for opening an opponent up, maybe give it the same speed as Link's fully charged arrow so that it makes it harder to dodge

[@smg680]

You deserve more subscribers. this was an amazing video. I would love to see decidueye in smash bros :D

[@chickychi2261]

You're content is really good quality why don't you have more subscribers!? Also please do Sceptile, Captain Toad, Issac or Chibi-Robo next! Keep up the great work.

[@Delzethin]

Much obliged! Things have been slow going lately due to some complicated circumstances, but hopefully I'll be able to get going again soon. If you want to suggest concepts for characters you want to see, check out my Patreon for more info!

[@CuriousUserX90]

Indeed Decidueye should be a Newcomer in Ultimate, in fact there should be a Gen VII Fighter in some form, each previous installment has had some Newcomer from the Latest Pokemon Gen.

[@sideeswipe]

I feel that the biggest reason that we will get him is because Pokémon is gigantic now with Pokémon go and Pokémon sun and moon practically being the best and most revolutionary in the series. People wanting squirtle and ivysaur back are mostly genwunners or people who played as Pokémon trainer or really liked the characters for whatever reason. We already have four reps from the first gen and six out of the eight reps would be from gen one, so some new Pokémon would be awesome

[@gamegod6859]

foresight would be usable at best because sometimes its easier to read on air or roll dodge

[@tanjalukic7008]

Great concept

[@Scandal262]

My Idea B:Spirit Shackle - a fast shot that can be angled. When used on a grounded opponent, they are stuck in place for a small window to allow Decidueye to move in. Side B: Leaf Blade - a strong rekka attack that can be used up to 3 times. Up B: Brave Bird - we had more or less the same idea. Down B: Leafage - a sort of burst attack that surrounds Decidueye with swirling leaves to act as a 'get off me' attack. Final Smash: Sinister Arrow Raid - no duh Maybe it could use attacks like Razor Leaf, Peck, Fury Attack, Shadow Ball, Astonish and Acrobatics for normals while also incorporating wing and kick attacks.

[@Antifrost]

Rowlet was my starter in Sun, and I definitely like the moveset you've come up with. It'd be cool to have a character that rewarded patient play, and I've personally been able to make use of zoning characters pretty well. I especially like Foresight, since it's practical enough to help with closing out stocks but at the same time not worth spamming, especially at lower percents when you're not gonna get much off it. Decidueye does have a realizable chance of making it into Smash, though whether that's through a supposed port or a new game entirely, I won't bother guessing.

[@Delzethin]

Well realistically, if we're waiting all the way to a true Smash 5, Generation 8 or 9 will probably be relevant then. Decidueye has a legitimate shot if the Switch port has enough new characters, but it's now or never.

[@GenoGirlUndertalefan1]

I love Decidueye

[@Rubberman202]

So the thing about Decidueye, it's become one of my top picks, though mostly circumstantial. I mostly just want another Grass-type Pokemon to be playable again, and Decidueye, being from the latest generation of Pokemon, has a likely shot! Then again, Pokemon Sun & Moon DID come out just last year... Sure, Greninja was picked while he was still in the concept stage, but Sakurai's reasoning made it feel like he was picked almost by chance (because he looked cool, basically), and who's to say Sakurai will feel the same way about Decidueye? Although, given that Ash ended up getting a Rowlet in the anime, I'd be surprised if Decidueye doesn't become popular as a result... or more popular, since it seems as though Rowlet and it's evolutionary line are the most popular out of the 7th gen starters. Heck, it's my favorite by far! Actually, I WOULD like to see Decidueye on it's own merit as well as the aforementioned reasons! I'll also admit, I'm not too big on Pokemon speculation. I usually just stick to one Pokemon character and be done with it, because gosh-darn there are too many potential Pokemon to choose from! I'll also admit, I do place Meowth and Gengar high on my potential Pokemon list, even though I feel that's too many gen 1 Pokemon. Incidentally, there's one Pokemon character I thought of after I saw N's Castle in Smash 3DS, and that's N himself. Unlike the Pokemon Trainer, he'll be right there on the battlefield, fighting with his Pokemon and using his special connection with Pokemon to either give them power boosts or revitalize them when they're tired... Admitted, it sounds a bit complicated and it probably won't happen... But I still think it's a highly unique and original choice for Super Smash Bros. I'm one of those people who wanted Sceptile playable as well, though yeah, it MIGHT have been for that arbitrary quota you mentioned... Though I DO think Sceptile's cool in his own right, plus Ash has one in the anime, not to mention it was a playable fighter in Pokken Tournament, along with the Ruby and Sapphire remakes and such! I feel like I want Decidueye more than Sceptile now, though. Hey now, wait a minute, just because Decidueye's stats weren't what people thought they would be doesn't necessarily mean they need to be reflected in Smash Bros. I mean, Mewtwo weighs 269 lbs. yet he's one of the lightest characters in the game! He also isn't that fast despite having a high speed stat in the Pokemon games... Well, actually, Mewtwo's speed went up in updates to Smash 4, didn't it? Anyway, the point is, I think it's just as likely for Sakurai not to follow Decidueye's in-game stats as the basis for his play-style as it is he would. Just saying... Boy I just LOVE hearing your enthusiasm when talking about this stuff! It gets me excited, too! :D

[@willhammer9805]

YOU ONLY HAVE 310 SUBSCRIBERS?!

[@Delzethin]

It's a slow grind.

[@SAMBROS]

If only we had Blissey Bases...

[@WolfDB]

I remember someone wrote about how Decidueye also took some inspiration from the Comic Book character Green Arrow in a few ways

[@Delzethin]

We don't have proof of it, at far as I know, but it's very possible.

[@WolfDB]

Well, there is also a sort of continuation on the Gen 6 starters. Everyone says that the Gen 6 starters are based on Tabletop RPG classes, with Chesnaught being a Paladin, Delphox being a Wizard, and Greninja being a Rogue. Gen 7 goes kinda further with Decidueye being a ranger, Incineroar being a Monk and Primarina being a Bard. I don't know if that was their intention, but it's something I noticed

[@Delzethin]

If I remember right, it was outright confirmed that the Kalos starters were themed after the classic fighter-mage-thief triangle. We haven't heard anything of the like for the Alola starters yet, though I can see how people are grouping them into RPG classes as well. Personally, I think the Alola starters are meant to be based on different types of performers: a flashy trick shot archer, a boisterous heel wrestler, and an enchanting songstress.

[@WolfDB]

That would make sense. Alola does have a few of Pokemon based around performing in different ways, both in the new Pokemon and in the Alolan forms. Like Alolan Raichu being a surfer or Oricorio and Alolan Marowak being dancers,

[@robertpowell9982]

I was thinking Spirit Shackle could work like a projectile version of Corrin's Side B, where it holds teh enemy in place for a short time allowing for a follow-up attack, which won't always connect depending on percent and distance Decidueye is from the opponent...

[@Delzethin]

I considered that, but I decided to go with something more unique to help the moveset stand out better. After all, Spirit Shackle doesn't prevent opponents from attacking, it stops them from escaping. I could see them just giving it a stun effect, though.

[@daisukedoi9284]

Decidueye can be like Wrastor in Rivals of Ather

[@nathan6755]

The Final Smash should be Hanzos Ultimate

[@gamegod6859]

no copyright

[@ninjamaster9094]

Couldn’t we use a lot of moves from Pokken Tournament DX? He could do that aerial move where he temporarily floats in the air (maybe activating after his up special) where he could follow up with a number of different dives or arrow attacks.

[@Ray-hx3rm]

I feel like leaf blade could be 2 very slim blades held by decidueye, and I could take over a lot of decidueye's airials and tilts and smash attacks, and finally decidueye could have a better recovery, in other words make brave bird like pit and dark pit's. Other than that I completely agree!

[@Delzethin]

A good rule of thumb when creating a (non-clone) moveset is to try to emphasize the unique aspects of the character's attacks. I based Brave Bird's movement on the move's actual animation in the Pokémon games as of Gen 6, giving it its own identity and purpose compared to other recoveries, even those with similar trajectories. Having it merely be a retread of Pit's recovery wouldn't do that as well. Plus, Power of Flight has its own downsides, like its predictable straight line movement and complete lack of hitbox.

[@Ray-hx3rm]

I know, I said a lot more like, not completely like, I meant like same animation and I was thinking like a mixture between meta knights side special and also having the same recovery as pits up special.

[@Delzethin]

The intent behind it was to be more of a desperation move than a reliable long distance recovery or offensive option. Considering Decidueye loses the Flying type, I wanted it to come off as a short distance glide rather than true flight or wind manipulation.

[@samuelocker2594]

Flank.t4nk I think Decidueye would be more skilled in the air.

[@gamerowl9934]

This is the biggest lost potential Sakurai chose, it's really sad but I try to at least have hope for a DLC fighter, even if the chances are pretty low.

[@kerschmack7829]

If I were to chose a grass type to be in the game, personally, I would just bring back Ivysaur and change a few of his moves, but Decidueye would also be kewl!

[@peppy619]

I'm concerned about Spirit Shackle, not being able too move seems too OP, specially if you get edge-guarded with that. Maybe it should just stunt? Or what if it hits you, your character becomes as heavy as if he had the Metal Box item for 5 seconds? D: Foresight was a wonderful idea. My wishlist: -Isaac (Golden Sun) -Chorus Kids (Rhythm Heaven) -Takamaru -Mach Rider -Sami (Advance Wars) -Kallas (Baten Kaitos) -Chibi Robo -Dixie Kong -Lip (Panel de Pon) -Wonder Red (Wonderful 101) If I want to send you suggestions for movesets, where can I do it? I want to collaborate with ideas!

[@Delzethin]

Unfortunately, I'm not at a position where I can work suggestions into things right now. But maybe the other commenters would be interested in your ideas! As for Spirit Shackle, only the landing hitbox would cause the shackle effect, so if you got hit while recovering you'd only take like 6% and minor knockback. And while you wouldn't be able to move if the landing hitbox got you, you could still attack, shield, and dodge!

[@peppy619]

Delzethin Sounds more reasonable now :D

[@peppy619]

Keep up the good work, you are the most serious (and hence the best) at suggesting characters for Smash bros.

[@makoferretcarpicapybara5539]

This was great, keep it up!

[@dumbghost3109]

Replace razor leaf with the rowlet lines signiture version leafage. And I'd say decidueye would be much more agile in the air and have slightly faster than average speed on the ground because it's shown to be very fast in the air and it's strong legs would give it some speed on the ground.

[@andrecordice8479]

It'd be really really awesomeeeeeeeee if Decidueye was a character!! 😍😍😍

[@avibi]

I thought the same thing as you about the Smash attacks.

[@avibi]

Although I imagined Leaf Blade as its Forward tilt or Side B with a tipper.

[@Delzethin]

I wanted the side special to help emphasize the use of projectiles, and so I went with leaves as throwing knives rather than anything more up close. See how understanding the concept you have in mind can help with these kinds of creative decisions?

[@KingBobbyG1223]

I feel like Spirit Shackle should stun the opponent, similar to Zero Suit Samus's Neutral B and Down Smash

[@elsafoley3488]

Tingle moveset would be great

[@alexanderhamilton3417]

You think Mimikyu has a shot being a fighter?

[@rosanirodrigues557]

If Venusaur was in smash how would operate he’s a quadruped please can someone answer me this, I know if Blastoise was in he be a water bowser.

[@TheRManProds]

Decidueye is Better than Incineroar!

[@joeymtn6000]

brave bird=brawl shuttle loop

[@Delzethin]

There's a very good reason Shuttle Loop was changed. Brawl Shuttle Loop came out fast, killed early, and was nearly unpunishable if used right. Notice how I made sure Brave Bird would be 1) not all that powerful, and 2) super punishable if you don't connect with it?

[@bmombaerts]

I just hope they don't put in to many characters from series we alreayd got/already got newcomers in SM4SH. There are so many god dang series/games they could be adding that aren't already in.

[@I_Am_Ion]

H enryuuki *cough cough* Splatoon!

[@spiddoodle]

i mean like there supposed to add a grass starter RIGHT?

[@TheGrandbull]

What about waluigi

[@DJR_1999]

@delzenthin I would like to help you with Toad/ Captian toad Moveset if you do not mind

[@Delzethin]

I appreciate the offer, but I'm not at a point where I can collab right now.

[@gamegod6859]

translate pokken deluxe decidueye moves we got a down air, down tilt, neutral and forward air, dash attack and a few other moves

[@skarlightrose9086]

decidueye is a good choice for a smash character, the only character I really want in smash is Lana from hyrule warriors

[@PinkGoldBeans6197]

Now decidueye ia first because inklings are confirmed

[@creepeyredacted8914]

Rowly (i hope i wrote that right) is cute. Decidueye is badass(ish). How have this happened? F*ck knows.

[@pana4890]

Delzethin can you do a pokken tournament 2 prediciont?

[@Delzethin]

Maybe in a few months. With those rumors that Nintendo wants to get involved in esports, I could see a Pokkén re-release happening on the Switch with another round of new content like what Street Fighter V is doing. When the time times, I might try my hand at a few Pokkén concepts...though I don't know the ins and outs of its move data as well as I do with Smash.

[@SleepyKaiju7]

For the time being, it'd be wise if he stuck to his strengths.

[@davidlewis4245]

Who's Gen 7's Lucario?

[@SleepyKaiju7]

Silvally

[@Falcovsleon21]

Am I the only one who doesn't want Decidueye? I don't think Smash should be playing favorites with starter Pokemon because, except for Charizard, the current starters are going to be overlooked once the next installment of Pokemon comes out. I'd rather the 7th Gen Pokemon slot go to Silvally. It's pretty much one of your rivals' trademark Pokemon and considering said rival is related to the main villain of Sun & Moon, that means it's pretty frequent in the story as well.

[@ulvene5763]

....wouldn't Incineroar make more sense?

[@Delzethin]

I'm not very confident about Incineroar. We already have so many characters in Smash who are fire-users built around physical attacks (Mario, Charizard, Captain Falcon, Roy, sorta Bowser) that it'd be difficult for yet another one to feel unique. I think they're more likely to look at other prominent mons who wield elements that are rare-to-nonexistent on the roster. Just because a character _feels_ like they should be in doesn't necessarily mean they have a high chance of making it. Keep that in mind going forward!

[@muno]

Incineroar could definitely be made unique compared to the other physical brawlers in the cast. It's no secret that Incineroar is based on a heel wrestler, essentially a villainous wrestler. In real life, they rely on questionably legal tactics to make the crowd and their opponents hate them, sneaking things past the ref in the interest of winning. So in Smash, Incineroar could reflect this by using cheap-seeming tactics that no other fighter has, and that might seem cheap at first but can be overcome by keeping a level head. Essentially, Incineroar would be the embodiment of jank. For example, its neutral special could be Feint Attack, a slow, laggy, but powerful and super-armored attack that can be used out of the ending lag of any move. While an endlag-canceling, super-armored move seems cheap, Feint Attack's ending lag would make it fatally punishable if spammed. Another idea is an up special uppercut attack, similar to Ryu's Shoryuken. This low blow, at its sweetspot, would cause 1.4 or 1.5 times as much hitstun to fighters, with knockback low enough to combo into a KO in a way that seems impossible. If blocked or dodged, however, the helpless state attached makes it extremely punishable - and it also wouldn't be ideal for recovering. Other types of moves that could play into this aesthetic include attacks with heavy shield damage, moves which ignore shields entirely, or tricky hit-confirms from sweetspots into suicide moves. These aspects make Incineroar the ultimate "villain" character. In the same way that Ganon's Flame Choke can end stocks in a risky but cheap-seeming way, Incineroar's entire moveset would be built around this core aesthetic. If you main Incineroar, you will become the villain of your scene with your powerful, cheap-seeming tactics - but it won't be imbalanced as long as Incineroar's opponent keeps a level head. Thus, Incineroar's goal is to get into the opponent's mind and frustrate them to the point where they break down entirely, like a true villain.

[@SleepyKaiju7]

That's like picking Chestnaught over Greninja for Smash. Or Blastoise over Charizard, or Raichu over Pikachu. "It could work....but this is WAY better."

[@mbtheking7457]

Jëff Cööpër. not incineroar we already have a fire and dark type pokemon in the game.

[@gamegod6859]

WatcherPlays90 no replacing pikachu

[@gamegod6859]

do chun-li

[@axemredalawadhi8482]

Do Geno next

[@Zane13pyro]

cough he did

[@BigBossMan538]

How about Mimikyu?

[@peppy619]

I think that's the "Lucario" of this generation???

[@t00nbink]

Benjamin gutierrez oriol I'm pretty sure he's talking about Silvally.

[@peppy619]

T00n bink Now I think about it, yes, you are right. Although I think Type: Null looks cooler haha

[@Mozilla999]

Type: Null's helmet does look really cool, but I just love Silvally's design. I love that it's a mix between what seems to be a llama, canine, feline, bird or insect, fish, and a dragon.

[@mcandamiiboexperts3380]

But Instead they give us incineroar. whatever smash ultimate is amazing anyways. also i prefer incineroar to decidueye.