Challenges with the Divine Imamah Narrative | Response to Sheikh Ali Karmali | Dr. Syed Ali Hur

Hadīths like that of the two weighty things (Thaqalayn) or Ghadīr Khum always come to mind when discussing the concept of Imāmah within Shīʿism. These, along with other arguments and evidences presented, like the verse of Ulil Amr [Surah Nisā', verse 59], have all been dealt with by our respected Dr. Syed Ali Hur Kamoonpuri in previous videos and lectures:
• The Historical Imam Al...
• Was Imam Ali (as) appo...
This video is a part of a series of videos where ‪@dr.syedalihurkamoonpurioff3846‬responds to concerns raised by ‪@sheikhalikarmaliofficialch1842‬ about Al Islaah.
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#imamah #imamate #imam #taqiyyah #shia #shiism #twelverism #twelver #aqeedah #islam #ahlulbayt #ahlebait #quran #prophet #prophetmuhammad #jafar #sadiq

[@Gulam.e.ale.mohammad]

Brother I am full agree with you ❤I really respect for you in heart may Allah give great rewards for this teaching 💕 this will bring umah together İNŞALLAH

[@Siddiqa_h]

This makes so much sense!!

[@Al-Islaah]

Compared to the traditional current day Twelver Imami narrative, for sure.

[@ziryabjamal]

Brilliant video, eloquent as ever.

[@syedmehdi8793]

I don't believe that I am not the only Shia who does not believe in divine Imamat and Taqayya, and this revelation has come to me just by reading Quran in Urdu and English. Current Shia breed is a mutation of Rafidis and Ghalis, which is against Quran, and the true Sunnah of prophet and Shia Imams. Thank you brother and Allah blesses you.

[@intazario]

One of the best videos straight up. Mind blowing sayyad. I have critiqued all videos on istighasa but this is truly world class

[@mujtabashah3667]

I always intuitively felt that the divine attributes shias claimed on the Imams (as) were highly exaggerated. I mean the whole concept just didn't add up. I often wondered and asked if such miraculous claims were true, then how come the very siblings of these divinely appointed Imams dissented and claimed it for themselves, instead!!. Coming across a well meaning scholar like Dr Hur just proves the adage that there is enough truth for the one who seeks it. Being born n bred in britain, without a local mosque and having been surrounded by akhbari malangs most of my life, I feel how being a silent observer has it's advantages. If such a refreshing rethink from our current hyped up beliefs are taken upon our community, we'd fare a lot better than the aga khanis in terms of progressive ideals and piety. The current condition of shias is pretty grim tbh. It's all superficial now.

[@mhholmez2547]

I have had a similar journey. Reading the Qur'an without sectarian lenses helps the most! Back when I used to believe in all (or most of) the stuff the "malangs" told me, I didn't actually read the Quran. I just knew a few verses of it that were regurgitated on the pulpits and claimed to be about the Imams. However, Sayyid Ali Hurr, especially his Quran series (present on the Al Islaah channel), gave me a lot of clarity regarding the Quran. That helped free me from the shackles of my sect, because all the time I had to reconcile loopholes.

[@kingmxn335]

@@mhholmez2547 I mean a lot is common sense when you think about it. An Imam is sent to guide the others, instead he does Taqiyyah by denying he is the Imam and the people die a death of Jahilliyah, not only that according to Twelver hadith he dies on Kufr. Now what is his fault? Any person with common sense knows this is ridiculous

[@ziryabjamal]

Ahsant

[@zillahusnain3595]

جزاک اللہ ❤

[@abdulrafaykhan5252]

JazakALLAH

[@sub87342]

This imam is somebody who has aql and is telling the shia the truth...the imams were special ulama and blessed and qualified leaders but not divinely appointed if that was the case Allah might as well sent 12 more prophets after muhammad s.a.w

[@jimmiejames9154]

Good point.

[@user-mt1ot4ki3j]

Masha Allah bhai

[@alidakhlallah5834]

Very good

[@kingmxn335]

Masha Allah Syed, can you do a video refuting the Twelver concept of Isma’ (Infallability)? It is always a topic that comes up when Twelvers argue what Imam Ali (as) did and say that he is Ma’soom

[@mhholmez2547]

When the very foundation of the belief of Imamah is shaken and uprooted, then you don't need to worry about its branches. They will die out and decay.

[@Al-Islaah]

Ismah has already been discussed in the following lectures: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGG5iYeMdtOVjKc kzbin.info/www/bejne/epa1ga2Yi7iXpc0

[@altamashbaibars9477]

A point to note Even the reformist has so much imam centricity that whenever they take the name of Ali they say alai Salam but same is not the case with other prophets they openly say isa musa Ibrahim without saying alai Salam after them

[@kingmxn335]

It is their Ghuluv they dared to put Imam Ali عليه السلام above Musa عليه السلام and Ibrahim عليه السلام who is Khalil Allah. Imam Ali عليه السلام has his place but not to the level he is above a Rasool or even a prophet

[@Al-Islaah]

If you watch the very trailer of this lecture, you will see the Sayyid saying Musa Alayhi Salaam. But it is not a must to repeat the Taslim every time, although one may do so if they prefer to do so.

[@altamashbaibars9477]

@@Al-Islaah for your imams you do everytime dare and take it once as you say. Say Ali hasan Hussain actually it shows imam centricity is hard to get rid off the 1200 yr of ghulu creates its footprints deep

[@altamashbaibars9477]

@@Al-Islaah my observation is not just for this time I have seen tha in lot of your videos

[@Al-Islaah]

@@altamashbaibars9477 In this video, itself you will see the Sayyid mentioning the names of Imams without tasleem as well because as we mentioned it is sufficient to mention it once. Also we have no trace of Imamocentricism left nor do we claim Imams are greater than Prophets.

[@faizangohar9975]

I love you sir

[@Al-Islaah]

We love you for the sake of Allah as well.

[@williewhitson5287]

In the Qur'an Allahu ta 'alaa said in Surah(33:33) And stay in your homes[48] and do not go about displaying your allurements as in the former Time of Ignorance.[49] Establish Prayer, give Zakah, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only wishes to remove uncleanness from you, O members of the (Prophet’s) household, and to purify you completely.[50]. I know that Allahu ta 'alaa is clear And, depending on your Taqwa and iman (Allahu ta 'alaa said, Salah prevents grave sins, illegal sexual intercourse, polytheism and wicked evil deeds) And, you're right there's no explicit orders from Qur'an, Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.A.) and Sunnah that Ahlu'l-bayt (a.s.) were divinely appointed

[@syedibrahimhamza8550]

Maasha'Allah! Really impressed by the knowledge and research of Sayyid Hur. I have some questions and queries too. Please tell me how can I ask questions and Sayyid Hur can answer them? Jazak'Allah o khair

[@Al-Islaah]

You can email us your questions at [e-mail]. The Sayyid is usually overwhelmed with questions, so if it is one that we already know his answer to, we will share that with you, otherwise we will forward it to him for responding at his convenience. Barakallahu Fikum

[@kabinisifiso6014]

Can you please make the Big Fiqh lectures available 🙏

[@Al-Islaah]

All we can tell you is that those lectures will be released later, _in shaa Allah._ Please bear with us. We are appreciative of your support.

[@12followershia90]

Salam Alaikum Dr. I have a question to ask How do you interpret (understand) Hadith Al Thaqalayn?

[@Al-Islaah]

Walaykum Salaam. Our scholarship sees it as a Prophetic recommendation in favour of the Ahlul Bayt (as). There are different versions of it though.

[@sowh-xn9zg]

49:39 actually, this is one of the very few cases in which the variations of the Quran are significant, because rather than “say, O prophet”, some versions have “Muhammad said” (that he heard)

[@Al-Islaah]

This claim of yours is not correct. Our scholarship have expertise on the ten Mutawaatir Qiraa'aat, so we asked them about this, and they said there is no such variant as you are claiming in any recognised Muatwaatir Qiraa'ah of the Quran. It's "Say O People I am the messenger of Allah to all of you all together" in every single Mutawaatir Qiraa'ah. In fact, there is no Muatwaatir variant reading for verse 158 at all according to our Ustaadh as all the reciters read it the same way without any variation. Perhaps you have this confused with some other verse.

[@sowh-xn9zg]

@@Al-Islaah thank you for the clarification, I will check the authenticity of the source where I learned this.

[@Al-Islaah]

@@sowh-xn9zg You are welcome. You can also check for yourself by downloading a Mushaf which has all the ten Qiraa'aat listed in the margins and footnotes from this link: ia601502.us.archive.org/17/items/sharaf_msehfalqir7808708707805780780/alsahabah__colored__10__qeraat.pdf You can refer to pg. 170 of the above publication where verse 158 of Surah 7 is found. You will see no variant reading whatsoever exists for that verse or any word in it.

[@adilakhtar676]

Salam o alaikum Dr. Saheb, can you allow me to translate it in Urdu?

[@SyedAliAbbasBilgrami]

Do it. Always helpful. Just make sure you are true to the actual message.

[@Muhammad-ux2dh]

jazakallah, they should reject divine wilayah ,

[@ImamZaydInstitute]

Taqiyya is the most anti-theistic doctrine and practice

[@muhammadshayanhaider]

Did Ibraheem as do taqiyya in the matter of religion? What is the diff bw toriya and taqiyya?

[@Al-Islaah]

Ibrahim (as) never did Taqiyyah in the matter of religion. He openly announced the Haqq to his people, that is why they attempted to kill him by throwing him in the fire. Taqiyyah means to state the opposite of the truth to ward off harm to life, limb or general well being. Towriyah means to use words that have double meanings while intending the more distant meaning.

[@fahadsiddiqui85]

In shi'i literature many narrations from ahlulbayt, books like kitab ul araba Dis respecting people from ahlulbayt for not believing in devine imamah from ali to muhamamad al mahdi oderly These narration openly takfeer huge number of people from fatimids

[@sasuke.7251]

Very nice video but maybe you are doing taqiyyah now according to deniers 😂😂😂. I had a question aswell. Why do we refer to the imams as imams if they aren't divinely appointed. I know that an imam is a leader but did the imams as occupy positions of leadership in their life? It seems that on the contrary they lived in fear according to the people who say that they did taqiyyah about their divinity. Also another question is I am really curious about your views on the battles of jamal and siffin. I think that they were attrocities and just know a bit about the sunni narrative. But whenever I am surrounded by twelvers they justify abuse or seeing muawiya and aisha ra because of these battles. I hope my request doesn't overwhelm you guys. Thanks for your video's as someone born into twelverism I feel as if your videos are a true saving for me. We are all muslims doesn't matter if it's shia or sunni!

[@Al-Islaah]

We call the Imams Imams because they were spiritual and intellectual leaders. They were leading personalities in understanding of the Quran, Sunnah, Fiqh, etc. If Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafiee and Ahmad bin Hanbal are called Imams in the Ummah, why should one have a problem in calling the leading scholars from the Prophet's progeny Imams? The Imams (as) from the Ahlul Bayt (as) lived in tough times for sure, but they bravely managed to do their work and transmitted Sunnah freely. Our stance on the battles of Jamal and Siffin is that Imam Ali (as) was on the Haqq in them. We view his enemies during these battles through his prism. Imam Ali (as) did not curse Ummul Mumineen Aisha nor did he abuse her. He sent her back with full honour and respect despite pointing out that she was wrong and misguided in what she did. After all, she disobeyed a clear verse of the Quran and rebelled against a Direct Divine command given in 33: 33 of the Quran. You can subscribe to the channel if you find the content on it interesting, and also join the telegram group. That way you will remain updated on all the latest broadcasts, and you will get to see all the lectures which are released in the future which deal with these and similar questions inshallah.

[@sasuke.7251]

@@Al-Islaah thank you for your answer. I'm also looking forward to an explanation of verses 5:3, 5:55 and 5:67 hope you guys will upload something about it in the future

[@Al-Islaah]

@@sasuke.7251 If you read those verses in context (i.e., along with the previous and subsequent verses), you will realize they have nothing to do with Imamah or caliphate in the first place. When these verses are presented to us from the pulpits, they are most often decontextualized.

[@sasuke.7251]

Salaam al islaah I found this explanation online, could you please comment on this If you look at the entire hadith: فَمِنْ ذَلِكَ مَا رَوَاهُ مُعَاوِيَةُ بْنُ وَهْبٍ عَنْ سَعِيدٍ بن سمان \[اَلسَّمَّانِ\] قَالَ: كُنْتُ عِنْدَ أَبِي عَبْدِ اَللَّهِ إِذْ دَخَلَ عَلَيْهِ رَجُلاَنِ مِنَ اَلزَّيْدِيَّةِ فَقَالاَ لَهُ أَ فِيكُمْ إِمَامٌ مُفْتَرَضٌ طَاعَتُهُ؟ قَالَ فَقَالَ لاَ فَقَالاَ لَهُ قَدْ أَخْبَرَنَا عَنْكَ اَلثِّقَاتُ أَنَّكَ تَقُولُ بِهِ وَ سَمَّوْا أَقْوَاماً وَ قَالُوا هُمْ أَصْحَابُ وَرَعٍ وَ تَشْمِيرٍ وَ هُمْ مِمَّنْ لاَ يَكْذِبُ فَغَضِبَ أَبُو عَبْدِ اَللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ وَ قَالَ مَا أَمَرْتُهُمْ بِهَذَا فَلَمَّا رَأَيَا اَلْغَضَبَ فِي وَجْهِهِ خَرَجَا فَقَالَ لِي أَ تَعْرِفُ هَذَيْنِ؟ - قُلْتُ هُمَا مِنْ أَهْلِ سُوقِنَا وَ هُمَا مِنَ اَلزَّيْدِيَّةِ وَ هُمَا يَزْعُمَانِ أَنَّ سَيْفَ رَسُولِ اَللَّهِ عِنْدَ عَبْدِ اَللَّهِ بْنِ اَلْحَسَنِ فَقَالَ كَذَبَا لَعَنَهُمَا اَللَّهُ وَ هُوَ مَا رَآهُ عَبْدُ اَللَّهِ بْنُ اَلْحَسَنِ بِعَيْنَيْهِ وَ لاَ بِوَاحِدَةٍ مِنْ عَيْنَيْهِ وَ لاَ رَآهُ أَبُوهُ اَللَّهُمَّ إِلاَّ أَنْ يَكُونَ رَآهُ عِنْدَ عَلِيِّ بْنِ اَلْحُسَيْنِ عَلَيْهِمَا السَّلاَمُ فَإِنْ كَانَا صَادِقَيْنِ فَمَا عَلاَمَةٌ فِي مَقْبِضِهِ وَ مَا أَثَرَهُ فِي مَوْضِعِ مَضْرَبِهِ - وَ إِنَّ عِنْدِي لَسَيْفَ رَسُولِ اَللَّهِ وَ إِنَّ عِنْدِي لَرَايَةَ رَسُولِ اَللَّهِ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ وَ دِرْعَهُ وَ لاَمَتَهُ وَ مِغْفَرَهُ فَإِنْ كَانَا صَادِقَيْنِ فَمَا عَلاَمَةٌ مِنْ دِرْعِ رَسُولِ اَللَّهِ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ وَ إِنَّ عِنْدِي لَرَايَةَ رَسُولِ اَللَّهِ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ اَلْمِغْلَبَةَ وَ إِنَّ عِنْدِي أَلْوَاحَ مُوسَى وَ عَصَاهُ وَ إِنَّ عِنْدِي لَخَاتَمَ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ دَاوُدَ وَ إِنَّ عِنْدِي اَلطَّسْتَ اَلَّذِي كَانَ مُوسَى يُقَرِّبُ بِهَا اَلْقُرْبَانَ وَ إِنَّ عِنْدِيَ اَلاِسْمَ اَلَّذِي كَانَ رَسُولُ اَللَّهِ إِذَا وَضَعَهُ بَيْنَ اَلْمُسْلِمِينَ وَ اَلْمُشْرِكِينَ - لَمْ يَصِلْ مِنَ اَلْمُشْرِكِينَ إِلَى اَلْمُسْلِمِينَ نُشَّابَةٌ وَ إِنَّ عِنْدِي لَمِثْلَ اَلتَّابُوتِ اَلَّذِي جَاءَتْ بِهِ اَلْمَلاَئِكَةُ وَ مَثَلُ اَلسِّلاَحِ فِينَا كَمَثَلِ اَلتَّابُوتِ فِي بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ كَانَتْ بَنُو إِسْرَائِيلَ فِي أَيِّ أَهْلِ بَيْتٍ وُجِدَ اَلتَّابُوتُ عَلَى أَبْوَابِهِمْ أُوتُوا اَلنُّبُوَّةَ وَ مَنْ صَارَ إِلَيْهِ اَلسِّلاَحُ مِنَّا أُوتِيَ اَلْإِمَامَةَ وَ لَقَدْ لَبِسَ أَبِي دِرْعَ رَسُولِ اَللَّهِ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ فَخَطَّتْ عَلَى اَلْأَرْضِ خَطَطاً وَ لَبِسْتُهَا أَنَا وَ كَانَتْ تَخُطُّ عَلَى اَلْأَرْضِ يَعْنِي طَوِيلَةً مِثْلُ مَا كَانَتْ عَلَى أَبِي وَ قَائِمُنَا مَنْ إِذَا لَبِسَهَا مَلَأَهَا إِنْ شَاءَ اَللَّهُ تَعَالَى ) The Imam A.S already knew who they were. They were liars whom the Imam A.S prayed for the curse of Allah swt to be upon. They already had a false leader. They were trying to find and challenge the Imam of the time. The Imam A.S had no choice but to hide his Imamate from their crazy followers. Just because they were Zaydis "shias" does not mean they liked the Imams A.S. In fact if you read history you can understand there was lots of volatility amongst the raise of many false imams. There were tons of false uprisings and riots. On top of the pressure by the very abbasid caliphs. This put all the Imams A.S and their Shias in direct danger. You can clearly see that the Imam A.S tells his companions: Imam said to me: Did you recognize these two? I said: Yes, these are the people of our bazaar and they are from the Zaidi clan, and they both think that the sword of the Messenger of God, may God's prayers and peace be upon him, is with Abdullah bin Hassan. The Imam said: May God curse them, they are lying. By God, Abdullah bin Hassan never saw it. Neither with his one eye nor with his two eyes, his father did not see it either, except that he may have seen it with Ali bin Hossein, if they are telling the truth, what is the mark on its handle? And what is the sign and effect on the edge of its blade? Indeed, the sword of the Prophet, peace and blessings of God be upon him, is with me. Indeed, the flag, armor, and armor of the Prophet, peace and blessings of God be upon him, are with me. If they are telling the truth, what is the mark on the armor of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him? Indeed, with me is the victory banner of the Prophet, peace be upon him and his family! With me are the tablets and staff of Moses, with me is the ring of Suleiman bin Dawood! I have the dish in which Moses performed the sacrifice! I have the name that the Prophet, peace and blessings of God be upon him, used to put between the Muslims and the infidels (during the war); No arrow from the infidels will reach the Muslims! ​ In terms of the second hadith, besides the mistranslation and not quoting the entire hadith. This hadith is misinterpreted by anti shias to make a false claim. You can read the clear refutation to it here: The key sentence in the report that can be used to indicate that Zayd was not aware of Imamah is “My father has not informed me of the religion but has informed you?!”. This was the response to al-Aḥwal who was implying that only an uprising with the permission of the Imam is legitimate; the implication of this was that because Zayd did not have permission, he could not join him. One simply has to contextualize Zayd’s reply after al-Aḥwal’s reasoning, especially with Zayd’s usage of the word “religion”, to conclude that Zayd is talking about a religious concept (like the necessity of permission to revolt) versus a tangible fact (like the Imamah of his father). In essence, Zayd is telling the companion that you don’t need to teach me about religion. Someone who was raised in the household of Imamah does not need a lesson on the basics of what a legitimate uprising is or is not. This can mean two things: either that he has permission from the Imam, as Sayyid al-Khoei suggests, or that he had assumed his uprising was legitimate, as ʿAllāmah Shaʿrāni suggested. This would be also aided by Zayd’s final comments, which reference the Imam’s foreknowledge of his killing, reinforcing the idea that his uprising is not for worldly matters. Either way, it is clear to see the matter is not about the Imamah of his father or brother; rather, it was about the legitimacy of his revolt. Finally, having discarded this report’s alleged meaning in disparaging Zayd, we can conclude that Zayd is a praiseworthy and respected figure in the eyes of the Imams of the Twelvers and their scholars. [iqraonline.net/did-zayd-b-ali-not-know-of-his-fathers-imamah/](iqraonline.net/did-zayd-b-ali-not-know-of-his-fathers-imamah/)

[@Al-Islaah]

This is actually in response to a post on Facebook by Muhammad ash-Sharifi, a Zaydi Shi'i scholar. He has already refuted the claims made in this particular article here: facebook.com/101242572272376/posts/pfbid0yquG6TF2ZN2v4k6EmmywQiY7VWJidfmerLh33BwL5zYTk79fSeQ28NuRTYaZmjRyl/?d=n

[@sasuke.7251]

@@Al-Islaah thank you! Maybe it will be good to really refute the objections to narrations where the imams deny divine appointment in that way we can show our twelver shia friends & family so that they may understand. I really value your time and input and would like to thank you for making these video's Allah aap logon ko kamiyaab karein!

[@Realtrain]

Taqiyyah is used for strategy

[@Al-Islaah]

Taqiyyah is ONLY permissible for non Divinely appointed Guides. If a Divinely Appointed Guide says I am not a Divinely Appointed Guide, Allah's Hujjah is finished then and there only!

[@Realtrain]

@@Al-Islaah divinely appointed human can practice religious laws like taqiyya, what are you saying even

[@SyedAliAbbasBilgrami]

​@@RealtrainTaqiyyah is the weakest aspect of the Imaan. Someone who is Muttaqi would never do Taqiyyah. Because they are under Allah's protection. And especially when it comes to preaching Allah's law, how do you know when they are doing Taqiyyah and when they are not! That would bring so much corruption in the teachings. It would become a joke!

[@Realtrain]

@@SyedAliAbbasBilgrami so a religious law is lowest of kind of imaan. What a joke🥴

[@SyedAliAbbasBilgrami]

@@Realtrain Divorce is a religious law. Is it recommended? Is it the highest kind of Imaan?

[@mal-3550]

Ending like Sarosh is being repeated endlessly. Move on please.

[@Al-Islaah]

We feel it was very important for the respected Sayyid to clarify that he is not calling towards the kind of "reform" Soroush has espoused. This must be emphasised in light of how Shaykh Ali Karmali expressed a misplaced concern that Al Islaah could end up where Soroush ended up. Itt is therefore of paramount importance to emphasise and stress and highlight and underline Al Islaah's strong, firm, robust, unrelenting, and non negotiable commitment to the Quran, Sunnah and original teachings of the Ahlul Bayt (as). Also one of the accusations against Al Islaah is that it has not been clear about its goals. The Sayyid is dispelling that myth in these responses.

[@mrkptitiger]

Asalamualaikum syed Sir please make Urdu videos on imamat More people will benefit Thank you

[@zillahusnain3595]

جزاک اللہ ❤