Timpson’s boss on upside-down management and business secrets

How do you measure a business’s success? For James Timpson, CEO of the Timpson’s Group, it comes down to two things: the satisfaction of its staff, and what it gives back to society.
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His employees only have to “put money in the till and look the part”; for the rest, they have complete authority to do whatever they think is right to offer a quality service to customers. This “upside-down” style of management doesn’t mean the business is not profitable - quite the opposite, in fact.
In this episode of Ways to Change the World, the boss of the shoe-repair, key-cutting and dry-cleaning group tells Krishnan Guru-Murthy the secrets behind his unconventional leadership style and why fostering a culture of kindness, giving ex-prisoners a second chance and cultivating a happy workforce are key to Timpson’s ethos.
Produced by Silvia Maresca.
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[@paulcooney4857]

I’m a employee for this gentleman very true to his word and I’m so lucky to call him my boss thanks again James 👍🏻👍🏻

[@tomclark15]

Hi James

[@anastasiatempest761]

Paul hi, your colleague is fabulous. Good luck to you to. Anastasia 🌻💗🙏👨🏽‍🦽

[@clipdump]

@@tomclark15 laughed out loud at this one

[@Jessicacaca00]

Are you an ex criminal paul cooney? I hear that timpsons employs only ex criminals

[@nigelbenn4642]

Yeah OK mate

[@howtobe247bookspodcast]

I'm so happy to hear he is the new Prisons Minister under Labour. Extremely positive move.

[@wotireckon]

It's an amazingly brilliant concept - a government employing actual experts! Just look at where the "people have had enough of experts" tory ethos has got us. This is literally the first bit of optimism I've felt in a decade.

[@howtobe247bookspodcast]

​@@wotireckon totally agree! I prefer people with expertise running these departments.

[@MrKelso85]

Same here possibly the best appointment I’d ever seen In politics , as a business analyst who works in prison reform , despite people saying why should we care? Rehabilitation not only makes streets safer but if we could get even 50% working and functioning again they’re worth 6.5 billion to society

[@lauracraig8110]

Starting this government on the right foot!

[@ForburyLion]

Will he implement the same management strategy where the prisoners are in charge and just have to look the part and put the money in the till and will they get a discount on key cutting?

[@richardwilliams8953]

Having used Timpsons in Guildford (in Tescos car park), the guy behind the counter is a super motivated individual. He has nothing but high praise for the owners and just wants to make the business a success - so, whatever Timpsons are doing - it works !!!!

[@wippett1987]

I am watching this because I met a "colleague" at the Burpham/Guildford Sainsburys Timpson's and he was as similarly motivated and friendly. Maybe it's the same bloke or, as James says - they are all like that!

[@mslinklater]

What a refreshing way to run a business. Congratulations. If more companies were like Timpsons the world would be a much better place.

[@Todd361]

Are you happy that the government steal your wages and uses it to subsidise 70% of the salary of timpsons employees on various schemes. Don't take my word for it, look it up yourself.

[@andresaxmanbrown]

Wow, this has blown my mind! I knew about Timpson’s employing people with Prison experience as he so eloquently put it. But the heart of generosity behind this is amazing.

[@nigelbenn4642]

Key cutting? Prison? Put the pieces together mate. FFS

[@rhone81]

​@@nigelbenn4642Hahahaha

[@SDrtheone]

Quite possibly the best 40 minutes of any podcast I've ever listened to!

[@meme4one]

I like his approach, as an engineering manager in a large company, I put responsibilities and direction on my own team. They know what's going on far better than I do, they generally make the right decisions, feel empowered, enjoy success and most importantly, takes the pressure off me.

[@EmmaVB82]

You sound like a brilliant manager 👏 I think part of why I LOVE this interview so much (I’m only a quarter of the way in, but I keep getting overexcited and pausing to come and read/reply to comments) is because my own work environment is kind of the mirror image of that at the moment and it’s really getting me down. The company as a whole is pretty good (not perfect, but what employer/place of work is?!) as are most of the people in my department, and I’ve now worked there for 9 years… but in the last few years there’s been a couple of key management changes (both my direct line manager and the head of dept). There’s now a much greater sense of needless control of minutiae coming from the top down and a lessening of our sense of freedom and autonomy; and therefore also our engagement in the work, because we don’t have as much sense of ownership or responsibility in any of it, or any real sense that the work we do and decisions we make matter because the management are trying to make all the decisions for us - basically the definition of being disempowered. It feels like a punitive demotion and I now actively hate my job, and (funnily enough) am performing much less well at it as a result, when I was previously thriving and seen as an essential part of the team. I’m basically now involved in a lengthy process of constructive dismissal, which is simultaneously undermining my confidence in my own abilities as well as any interest or desire to pursue alternative opportunities in other companies, because my sense of burnout and depression about my current job is extending to also apply to any similar potential jobs in the entire sector where I’ve been working (and advancing!) over the last *counts* ~17 years (god!). It’s incredible what a negative impact just two individuals have had, just on me as one person (but pretty much our entire department shares in at least some of the pain, plus pretty much all of the other departments and external companies/people who have had the misfortune to interact with one of the aforementioned newer managers!), and basically none of this would be a thing if they’d ben following the Timpson (as well as your!) model of facilitating colleague happiness 😏

[@ReviloliverLewis]

This is the Quaker understanding of business ✅

[@PandzaMan]

Exactly 👍… think what Cadburys used to be, homes, healthcare etc… this is the way employers should be. We give such a large amount of out lives to companies they’re like extended family… or ideally should be.

[@TheOldHacker]

I was just about to say the same thing. What he's talking about are Quaker values.

[@comically_large_cowboy_hat3385]

@@PandzaManhomes are a dangerous one though….company towns are not the way

[@davesy6969]

​@@comically_large_cowboy_hat3385 The quakers built good quality, affordable housing for their workforces with schools, clinics, gardens, sports facilities, churches and libraries. Many of these are so nice that they are conservation areas and are legally protected.

[@jsins1081]

Wow, this was so refreshing to watch.The NHS is crying out for a transformation like this.

[@nicholasbrekespere3616]

Privatisation?

[@rooroo1982]

@@nicholasbrekespere3616no, no one should be profiting from ill health

[@tvandbeermakehomergo]

@@nicholasbrekespere3616Nope just listen to the people doing the work at the bottom. We know how to fix a lot of issues, but managament just don't want to know. ...

[@johnnewington6635]

The problem with the NHS is there is a cohort majority of Directors that have been corrupted. They are meant to operate as per the Nolan principles, but the FPPT does not work. The NHS needs a complete organisation management/Director change. With only Directors that understand that the people on the ground actually have the answers to the majority of issues. But these positions are sort out by Manages that want to be in control in a top down way, with narcissistic traits. Shame such a potentially brilliant organisation, failed by the Managers, Directors, CEOs and Chairmans in control.

[@willienelsongonzalez4609]

Sadly, the NHS is a behemoth! There are people in positions of authority and in management that are morally bankrupt and corrupt to the core. Instead of thinking of how we can improve the service, how can we invest in people, how can we retain staff they’re constantly thinking about the short term; its management by crisis and a vast majority simply do not care. Various services in the NHS are running on fumes and on the ether of good will. They’re tired, they’re burned out and they’re fed up of being treated like garbage. The tory government deliberately failed to pay doctors an appropriate salary and used “austerity” as excuse to run down people and then the service, likewise with nurses. Those folks that have any self worth are either going part time and doing locum or agency work to boost their salaries and/or choosing to take their knowledge and skills abroad. Then the tory government will cry “look, we’re losing staff, we can’t man essential services, we need the input of the private sector to bail us out” as a prelude to completely privatising the whole service.

[@WowdIst]

I've seen this on C4 news earlier. What a role model he is for today's youth. Why can't our politicians be more like this man. Well done James.

[@EllaRoseX]

And today he is a politician!

[@user-wt3fj1tr1d]

I work for this company and I'm a branch manager in Sheffield, I'm lucky enough to be going to floriday for 2 weeks for me and my family in June this year as a dream come true gift 👌.

[@Liberty_Freedom_Brotherhood]

Is it true that most Timpson’s workers have been to prison previously (obviously reformed characters now!)

[@pocaluneksmierci]

@@Liberty_Freedom_Brotherhooddid you bother listening to what he said about that part?

[@Totajee79]

​@@Liberty_Freedom_Brotherhood1in 9.

[@petertownley7296]

my brother worked for john & james for 20 years has his own buisness independtly now was the best shoe repairer in london at farringdon paul ross stated.john timpson adopted 100 kids.he would work for them again credit for james

[@NeboReve]

What a superb man, extremely articulate, smart and kind. What an honour it must be working with him.

[@tonynibbles]

Always amazes me to hear about Timpsons. It’s so unassuming but every time I hear this chap it reenforces my loyalty to Timpsons, a shop I only ever use once in a blue moon. Maximum kudos.

[@Fabaret]

I’ve been a customer service manager for my team for 3 years now and was part of the front desk team before that. Previously - team members came and went. Since I’ve been Manager - nobody has left because I give them flexibility to help in their work/life balance and make them feel happy and an important part of the team as everyone else x

[@Viewer-discretion-is-advised7]

He’s absolutely spot on with this. As someone who works for a big well known brand and company I use to be happy working there when I was just left alone to do the job but then they changed management and introduced a load of new policy’s to penny pitch and it’s made my life a lot worse and I no longer enjoy or like working there and am looking for other jobs. My attitude change to the business aswell I felt betrayed abit for loyal service for 2 years and always doing my job properly and honestly I was not rewarded or acknowledged but instead moaned at on an almost daily basis for things that essentially are not important or make little to no difference all it’s done is make the staff unhappy and people leave and now they have to replace staff with agency people who then make a load of mistakes like getting parking fines which cost the business more more and a drop in customer service as they don’t care as much as a contract worker does and the standards the customer receives drops all for in the name of saving a few pennys which they don’t do anyway because of the things I mentioned it would just be a better approach to keep the current long term staff happy.

[@callummccubbing4506]

Royal Mail?

[@edwardalexander9486]

Compared to certain politicians today, this guy is a people-centred SuperHero. Intelligent, strategic, caring, sensible. "Not about money, it's about vision"

[@mrmo4059]

I love the idea of the holiday homes for employees. If the company has bought a home all employees can stay there for a week each year which saves them money and is a great incentive to keep them wirhin the company, happy and motivated.

[@MrSmith_]

Genuinely, I think many businesses could learn from this man.

[@clowncarqingdao]

That’s the best 40 minutes watching and listening that I remember for years. Well done, James and Timpson’s. A good model for others to follow and eloquently expressed!

[@Chris-kz3fv]

I couldn't agree more. Let him run the country

[@AhmedMohamed-ec7pc]

Amazing man,his father is also a top guy,who adopted 90 children over his lifetime

[@Mawerinho]

Hope Labour listen to him and fair play to them for his recruitment. A wonderful interview, sounds like a fantastic, open and honest individual. It's great what can be achieved when folk are down-to-earth, question the orthodoxy and lack cynicism! Bravo!

[@sarahkirk9181]

I want to work for this man! Wow, the world would be a better place if there were more people like him. So true. Amazing 🎉

[@chrismarshall22]

A very intelligent man. His understanding of human nature is amazing and ability to face problems head on.

[@meejay100]

I went to one of their stores, and their staff were amazing and so kind. He actually told me he enjoyed working there and had a great boss. Says a lot considering his boss wasn’t there!

[@Dungshoveleux]

This management style is the future but it should be the standard.

[@Jablicek]

It's also the past, and it seems so out of place now. Aside from the holiday homes, it sounds like the way retail used to be in small business - the person on the floor could have a measure of autonomy.

[@VixxyCS]

This guy is brilliant, what a wonderful outlook on business and how to engage with people in the right way to make a profit and look after your staff at the same time.

[@dukemaximus1639]

He has taken servant leadership to the next level. Well done to him and people driven.

[@csharpe5787]

I have so much respect for this man and father. He really does care about those who are less able, or fewer opportunity and have no one to advocate for them!

[@dfpguitar]

Timpson is exactly the type of business you would think could not survive in todays UK. So many high st giants of much needed housewares like Wilko's , Woolworths etc went bust. For a chain store/franchise that does shoe & watch repairs, and photo processing in today's world just seems impossible to make work based on everything else that has failed. Their business model must be really special!

[@jimmythompson8919]

It’s a trope that people use to justify their greed too. This man is living proof against that

[@Jessicacaca00]

Timpsons employs ex-criminals straight from prisons

[@fre-3092]

This video definitely needs more views. All leaders should follow his philosophy and with all the negative news out in the world it's refreshing to hear someone actually trying to make a difference with how they run a business. Whether it works in reality, I don't know because I don't work for Timpsons but the ideas are there

[@JoelJoel321]

I've got stuff for free at Timpsons and it definitely makes me go back.

[@futurecheese]

Imagine how different the world might be if all businesses operated in this way. Especially the giants. Unfortunately, I suspect greed and power might prevent that from ever happening.

[@richardsmith2627]

As a foster parent we are taught about the Timpson's and what they did, amazing family and amazing business.

[@seanfinnegan1301]

What an honest and refreshing guy!

[@foxdenham]

What a guy. Great to see business leaders who know what the priorities are. I wish Thompson’s continued success 😊

[@mattwright2964]

Absolutely brilliant 👏. Overall what he is saying, is something dawning on more and more businesses, that you can't make sustained profits in a society that is falling apart.

[@davetdowell]

I've spent years of my life trying to get managers to understand this lesson. Businesses exist to serve customers, do it well and you'll make money, do it badly and you won't. The best way to happy customers is to give the people who serve them (customers) the power to do what is needed to deliver the best service they can. That means the rest of the business should be serving those who do that for customers. (or as he said supporting them in making happy customers). Well said Sir.

[@joaocarreira2276]

First time hearing his story. Absolutely amazing example of what a leader is. Happy people foster a great work environment and collectively more gets done. All stakeholders are treated nicer, fairly and everybody ends up better. Easier said than done, but this company made it work. Very, very inspiring story. It made my day!!

[@markhayward7400]

I go out of my way to give business to Timpsons when I can. James Timpson is someone I admire and support for running his business the way businesses should be run.

[@debspringchannel831]

Britain needs more of him. Leadership crisis has been the greatest problem ...

[@salkoharper2908]

Lions led by Donkeys. Always was what laid the English low. From the Somme to Brexit. Every Leader and General, an Eton educated Aristocratic moron.

[@rmschindler144]

whoa... this is *very* exciting! . what a humane, forward-thinking paradigm! . I am floored!

[@mrrootytooty5797]

I absolutely love Timpsons and wish them all the luck in the world, i only really go in now and then to get keys cut or links out of watches but its always a nice experience and the folks inside are always super helpful. One of my favourite shops!

[@user-td6fw9gv4t]

This guy is a legend, his Dad also. Great people

[@theofarmmanager267]

Retired now but was MD for a large business. I tried to get everyone to regard our management structure as an inverted pyramid where everyone supported the people at the top of the inverted pyramid - the ones that the client sees every day. I would also say that, if I died tomorrow,a client might be unhappy; if their interface person died,they would be devastated. All good (I think) thinking. But 2 things diluted it. Old fashioned middle management who would not budge from the Army Tell-And-Do. Less than great recruitment of those sharp-end people. So, if I were to (or you wanted to learn from my experience) do this again, I would spend much more time with middle management and, perhaps, manage in order to manage out a few die-hards. I would then develop with the HR team much more exacting recruitment criteria (this may mean it took longer to find the right person but retention would be higher)

[@fintamaria2429]

Such workers do not feel that they are just a number and a source of profit for the company..Bravo I hope to inspire the young generation to succeed in, And Changing the system of the Rich and Greedy for many!!!

[@Nellia.20x]

Respect to this man

[@melvinphillips786]

If only we had more people running businesses and looking after people like this. He follows my thoughts and ideas, the difference is that in my industry too many people can't see the benefits of this kind of management. I will now make sure I'm a Timpson customer.

[@RoderickSpoke]

I work for a company run on a similar theme and I can assure you it works for customers, staff and suppliers everyone is in charge of there own destiny . Agreed its not for everybody, but its made me a happy, productive and more compassionate person during my career. If only we used more of James Timpson's business principles and family values.

[@roymillsjnr5172]

Brilliant man got it correct ,I was using this technique in my 20s on rehab ward ,and there was hardly any sickness , and people loved coming into work .

[@TomRaine]

Fantastic attitude, amazing how he's simplified what people overthink. Had no idea the company ran like this, would be more inclined to go now.

[@Tommyshark5]

What a breath of fresh air James is a man who has vision, the future of this country will be built upon many of the principles this man practices, not greed and self-interest that seem to be prevalent in our world and politics today.

[@brilliantvoiceovers]

More businesses need leaders and innovative thinkers like this. This was very inspiring!

[@fintamaria2429]

God, I could listen to his ideas all day, I hope with all my heart that these journalists will invite him more times, give him more interviews because he has a lot to offer.thx Channel 4❤❤❤❤

[@wazeroonie6084]

I’ve used Timpson’s every now and again over the years, after watching this I’m going to start using them a lot more.

[@diesel-technology5507]

I work in an engineering company, and they are constantly penny pinching. They would rather you spend 2 hours fixing a piece of equipment that should be replaced while paying you £18 per hour rather than buy the new piece of equipment that costs £25..... absolutely senseless

[@paulcostache6733]

What a brilliant human being….

[@mrmo4059]

Ive never been so inspired and impressed by a guy

[@jamescosgrove9898]

How refreshing is that! What a guy James is. It would be great if other businesses saw this and took a few leaves out of his book. I can safely say that after seeing this, I will be taking whatever business I can to Timpson's.

[@mikedennington8856]

Totally amazing guy and company culture. Wish a lot more companies were based on his model.

[@potterendergaming5335]

Seems like a wonderfully kind man and a great businessman. I met him for a little bit at Keele at my graduation, and he gave a really inspiring speech

[@GBNE-kh1fs]

Cracking interview- what a wonderfully enlightened character. Bravo.

[@EGCC4284]

Absolutely inspirational guy. I’m sat watching this in absolute respect

[@stephenjames674]

I don’t understand why there are 3.2m views and only 750 likes, don’t people get it? This is an amazing attitude towards running a company.

[@Theonevidz]

3.2m subs not views

[@footyball66]

Royal Mail has a toxic culture which is mostly about trying to force its workforce to do overtime, come in early or work late for free, skip paid breaks. They put ridiculous pressure on those posties who work to their contracted hours to do more hours, tell them they are slow, meanwhile they are paying others to go over time to complete their rounds. Imagine coming into work and doing a good honest days work and regularly be told you are slow....on top of that there is no room for you to go faster as you are already as fast and efficient as you can be. This pressure is stressful, the way management go about it is harassment. You don't need an excuse not to do overtime, but a lot of people do not do it because of the toxic culture and want to stand up for themselves. Also, the job is exhausting, walking 10 miles a day, 5 days a week...so walking 12 miles a day, 5 days a week, if you were to do overtime is likely going to cause a lot of posties more injuries, more exhaustion, going home and falling asleep by 6pm.

[@jimmyguitar9873]

Great interview, we need more business leaders like this.

[@babblingbeakcommunications8439]

What a top fella!!! Business is hollow unless you give to society 💥 holiday homes 💥Janet the director of happiness 💥 this man should be running the country 💯💫

[@cedley1969]

This man should be prime minister.

[@dazecm]

Unfortunately the default mindset of most businesses operates under the widely discredited Shareholder Primacy model, which focuses on short-term returns on dividends at the expense of employees and other stakeholders.

[@edmurth]

When you consider the state of the high street it makes his story even more compelling.

[@EmmaVB82]

I just saw this interview featured on tonight’s news, and I’m so glad it’s a podcast episode that’s already been released! I had a growing smile and sense of admiration and being inspired during the clips shown tonight, so I’m now very much looking forward to watching the full 42 mins! 😊 (and also wondering if Timpsons might need someone with my own skillset - nothing to do with their industry, but everyone needs IT, right?! 😄)

[@andyheavyside]

This guy's blowing my mind!! 😂 I definitely think there's more scope for cooperatively owned businesses i.e the workers own the business and businesses are democratically owned. What a guy. Legend

[@petergardner6756]

I so admire this guys approach to the business, I know this strategy would not suit every business but we so need people thinking outside the box. The offenders employment program is fantastic and it would be wonderful if other businesses would look at the concept. We need more business people like James.

[@InternationalKarl]

I had zero idea this was the culture 11:33 and when he said that you will remember the person not if the floors were clean. I went into Derby store and now that he said this it makes total sense!!

[@PandzaMan]

Not rocket science… if you enjoy your work/employment then you’ll work harder, be more loyal, work to improve the company as a whole, less sick days. Too many managers, especially middle management just see the short to mid term bottom line on profits. Companies should also focus giving employees dividends and shares in the company (if applicable). As we move forward with the cost if living, insurance, health, pensions companies will become more like an extended family. With the pace of modern living work/life balance is becoming more and more important. I can foresee a day when the workforce is split 4/3 alternating yearly I.e. half the population work 3 days and the other 4 and alternating the next year were 3 days work for and 4 days work 3. We need more companies like this 👍

[@laurencedavey3121]

This is great, I'll use Timpson's more from now on.

[@dayatthe_cricket]

Fascinating interview 👏

[@GaminGit]

The world needs far more men like this!

[@BlutoandCo]

I have family who work for them, they are really happy working there. They seem to have it right (unlike the company i work for).

[@gerardtohill9597]

This is not rocket science. This man gets it. As a manager I've always believed my job wes to allow the people in my team to have the skills and room to do their own jobs successfully - I can't do it for them. If the team is successful - the business is successful

[@EmmaVB82]

Absolutely this! I feel like my current managers would chew my food for me if they could - evidently not a good way to try and motivate anyone to do anything like their best work, and it’s predictably backfiring! (I’ve worked in the same place for 9 years now, in two separate roles within the same department… the last 2-3 years, where the overall dept management has changed and my role has been restructured under new line management, have been appalling in terms of morale and results, and I now hate my job 😣) I think every business leader or any kind of team manager could thoroughly benefit from taking a leaf out of this particular book (…does it count as insubordination if I buy a copy of this book for those two aforementioned managers?! 😂)

[@anastasiatempest761]

This is an amazing interview. Don’t say “just.”💗🌻🙏👨🏽‍🦽

[@jacklav1]

Absolute gold

[@Greedo-qd7sh]

What a refreshing way to run a company. It reminds of Daniel Pink's book "Drive".

[@bryonycoates3]

Hallelujah. I've worked for several places and said to myself they would be so much better run if they listened to and supported the people on the ground. Also the NHS and Social Services would be much better and efficiently run if they did this too

[@mikeswift9314]

Brilliant, inspirational management.

[@user-nj1qu1cs7s]

I started an apprenticeship with Timpson in the 60s unfortunately I left because of one guy who was a bully and I was coming up for 18 and couldn't afford the rent after my birthday. But apart from that one guy I loved working for them and it was just the wages weren't enough at that time.

[@grantwallace1882]

Timpsons - a name you can trust. ❤❤❤❤

[@scottduncan-change-coach]

Love it!

[@Outdoor_Cycling_Adventures]

I like this guy!! A lot..

[@scoucererdinghton2360]

Yep a top company to trade with . Perfecto approach supplying them with all sorts of watch clock and materials .When I was working with CousinsUK Birmingham trade counter various branches used to come in or phone with orders.The owners are people's persons watching this interview was inspiring to get back into the trade Peace and love

[@jamesworley2674]

Refreshing to hear, however I think the key here is that Timpson's is a privately owned business. The idea that value be 'returned' to shareholders would get this guy fired.

[@anastasiatempest761]

This concept is good, great.💗👨🏽‍🦽

[@stevendavies3563]

I know a guy that is a cabin manager for a popular airline, the pilot is ultimately in charge of the plane but he is in charge of the cabin , as long as all the safety things are done and company procedures are followed the rest is his show , so yes provide drinks snacks duty free etc but if he wants a quite somber flight or have karaoke on the flight as long as all passengers are happy that’s on him There is a lot to be said in trusting and empowering your staff

[@420haxx]

This is a good man, if only more companies followed his example.

[@daves4026]

Great series 4 news

[@JohnnyBouchier]

Inspirational.

[@ProfSimonHolland]

excellent

[@VeX00786]

I agree with everything James has said in this video. I work for Sky. They do excellent in looking after their staff with all the freebies they give. Not only do they give freebies to staff but also to their customers. Sky are big on giving back. And james has got it spot on!

[@KINGFLX]

A breath of fresh air 💨

[@narcissist69]

I'm not really one for the honours system but the fact that James Timpson hasn't been Knighted is disgraceful. Absolutely top bloke.

[@pixelfrenzy]

There you go... he's just been given a place in the lords so he can join Starmer's cabinet as a minister for prisons.

[@narcissist69]

@@pixelfrenzy Yup, that's when it hit home for me that it's going to be a little bit different from now on. Absolutely made up for him and hope there are changes.