Batman: Caped Crusader - Untitled Review Show

Critics seem to love it but audiences are a bit more mixed. What are Doug's thoughts on the latest animated return of the Dark Knight? Let's take a look at Batman: Caped Crusader.
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Batman: Caped Crusader is an American animated television series based on the DC Comics character Batman. The series is developed by Bruce Timm, and produced by Bad Robot Productions, 6th & Idaho Motion Picture Company, Warner Bros. Animation, and DC Studios. Premiered on August 1, 2024, on Amazon Prime Video, the show offers a noir-inspired reimagining of the Batman mythos, focusing on a young Bruce Wayne during the early stages of his crime-fighting career in Gotham City, drawing inspiration from Batman stories of the 1940s and 1960s.
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What did you think of Batman: Caped Crusader? Join our KZbin Members only - kzbin.info/door/iH828EtgQjTyNIMH6YiOSwjoin Watch the new NC - kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYCllZicltBomLc Check out our store - channelawesome.myshopify.com/

[@TramiNguyen-oi3kp]

Awesome video!

[@kristopherjones4096]

I really hope you guys do a Batmay beyond

[@allanbaker3958]

I think it's a return to "The animated series" and you need a full rehab at Arkham for your "Critic" opinion.

[@insectostrich4407]

Honestly, I agree with almost everything you said. When you’re race swapping or gender-bending someone as iconic as the penguin without thought, you know where this show’s priorities were. Same problem with gender swapping Gordon, it would just be too distracting.

[@vishalkalicharan7710]

So you're not gonna review the Borderlands movie?!

[@lazyyog7203]

I will defend the dot assassin as you called him, because the show did a straightforward adaption of Onomatopoeia- and no one dared to do that before

[@ianfallon326]

Thank you. Basically came here to post that.?

[@FictionRaider007]

Yeah, Onomatopoeia is a comic book villain who people have said for years now only works in comics because... well, because his whole thing is he is taking the usual sound bubbles that describe sound and is saying them out loud. Could they have done something stranger with him? Like have everything around him be silent except for when he's making noises or something? Sure. But - as you say - it takes some guts to try making the comic-faithful version work on screen. In much the same way this "new take" on Clayface is just the original comic-faithful take on Basil Karlo, the original Clayface.

[@lazyyog7203]

@@FictionRaider007 with the powers of Clayface III yeah

[@lazyyog7203]

@@ianfallon326 nah, wanted to watch Doug's vid

[@FictionRaider007]

@@lazyyog7203 Yeah, people who've only seen the animated versions don't seem to know there has been a LOT of different Clayfaces.

[@underwolf6730]

Harley Quinn is actually tied to the scarecrow in this series. It's a bit of a throwaway line but Harley says she studied under professor Crane.

[@saphcal]

yeah that was a nice nod, hope in S2 we see him.

[@Femaiden]

Bechdel Test : FAILED!

[@stevemitchell4663]

yah when i heard her say that i said "wait a minute..."

[@mattphillips3537]

When I saw her talking to that king guy I thought this version had her working for The Monarch of Menace. That would’ve been a choice.

[@mattphillips3537]

@@FemaidenI’m that supreme court lady and you fucking did it. We did it!

[@timmitytom]

A Bat . . Checkbook?

[@wstine79]

You have the balls to write me... a Bat.. Check?!

[@ty-seansenior6660]

@@wstine79NOPE! NO! DOES NOT COMMUTE! DOES NOT COMPUTE BKLBJHVKGCHGKJHJHKUVHJBKJHBJVHJ (Descends into a mental breakdown)

[@arrow_of_ravenclaw5155]

⁠@@wstine79sure, just let me get a bat pen

[@austinforgie1069]

Do you take Bat cash or Bat Credit?

[@rebelpyroflame]

Wait hold up - does he have an official bat signature? Like he spent hours planning, practicing a signature different from his own bruce wayne one, got it registered with enough shell companies so it can't be traced easily to him, and even custom made a checkbook with a bat logo?

[@TAGibby]

I don't think Bruce Wayne as a kid decided to be Batman. He was saying that he was going to get revenge and Alfred was going to help him, but he didn't know *how* they were going to get that revenge. The actual creation of Batman would of course be years later. We saw the death of his innocence alongside his parents. That's what I got out of the scene at least.

[@itsblitz4437]

Good point

[@insectostrich4407]

Fair enough. However, his point was more that it was unintentionally funny rather than a serious moment which put him off.

[@lucinae8512]

Year One and Mask of the Phantasm were a great depictions of how even as an adult he still struggled to find his purpose, and he had to mess up several times before finally realising his true self as Batman.

[@loganwendigo937]

And in the comics Bruce made a vow to god after his parents died too. Here it’s just him saying that to Alfred

[@anomie1998]

The magic of Paul Dini is what this show is missing in my mind

[@nickflaskett257]

I think the magic of Paul Dini's influence is something all of Bruce Timm's recent works have been missing

[@foxhound13]

That maybe true. But it had 2 writers that I thought are great. One of which written my favorite episode of Clayface, Greg Rucka who did a really great run of Wonder Woman. Ed brubaker is def more of an influence of style for the series itself.

[@yarc9]

@@foxhound13ed brubaker & Matt Reeve they exist

[@yarc9]

@@foxhound13they took inspiration from year one and Batman long Halloween and Gotham central in one season

[@willcmpunktmnt]

we all miss Paul Dini

[@Robert3377]

5:37 We already have a sexy Catman. His name is Principal Skinner.

[@Adamguy2003]

Lol!

[@davidrothman5258]

Now they have to put him in the show.😂

[@titusorelius9458]

Lame for you to expose his secret identity for LIKES my dude. Do better.

[@matthewrowlett1564]

Uh... there actually IS a DC Comics Catman... it's one of the mid to late 90s alternate world limited series, where Selena Kyle became The Batwoman... And Bruce Wayne became Cursed by a cat god statue... except Selena was A Wayne, and Bruce Was A former circus acrobat turned jewel Theif... Interestingly, They used a PORTION of The Catman Backstory for that TERRIBLE Catwoman movie. And Catman has never been seen or mentioned again... But they made a different Batwoman... two actually. So yeah. Catman exists.(Also, I think they did an entire story fairly recently where Bruce and Selena get their genders Magically swapped, and have to seek out Either DR Fate, Zatanna, or John Constantine, or all three, to undo it. Heck, it may even have been ol Johnny that cast the spell in the first place, I can't remember exactly.)

[@Femaiden]

Axe Cop's nighttime persona. .

[@DanGamingFan2406]

The "dot assassin" is actually from the comics. He's named Onomatopoeia, and his main gimmick is only saying words that describe sounds (bang, drip, snap, etc.) He's portrayed very accurately to how he's played in the comics, which I love to see, I was thrilled to see him finally appearing on screen.

[@miquebts]

So they keeping this char the same is OK and changing others is OK too! So everything they do is OK for you 🐑

[@humptydumptysat]

@@miquebtsYou see the thing is onomatopoeia isn’t a well known character at all so when it comes to underrated characters they’re more likely just to show them off for what makes them cool. But when it comes to the characters we know they spice it up with original takes, new designs or make them more accurate to their classic style. The whole point is to show off new characters and new interpretations of familiar characters to make a unique show and a unique take on Batman we haven’t seen.

[@miquebts]

@@humptydumptysat oh I didn't knew you were part of the writing and 💩 of this show... Wait... You were not? So you are making up everything you're saying? 😲 C'mon man your mental gymnastics game is weak you can do better

[@RikouHogashi]

Japan must love him :P i joke but still

[@Sdotty_sweep]

@@miquebts stop trying to be different, none of the changes are bad

[@benwasserman8223]

I believe Bruce Timm pitched Caped Crusader as a mix of classic gangster, early noir Batman, and Universal Monster movie horror. So it's really leaning into the era where Batman originated from... and I'm cool with that. It would also explain why this universe's Clayface looks like the Shadow.

[@king_supreme1102]

I’m very cool with that as well. It’s a fresh angle for modern Batman. This is truly Batman in his early form. Like you said, very gangster and HEAVY noir. But that universal monster movie element came through for me as well. What this makes me excited for in the future is the Joker. Because of his tease at the end. Just by the voice alone, I could tell they’re doing real crime boss Joker. Which is what he was in the golden age. And I’d argue we haven’t really gotten that since Nicholson. It will stand out amongst other modern joker’s.

[@troybracy2915]

I’m cool with that too but I’m not cool with bad writing and distracting identity politics and that’s what hurt the show

[@Tombobreaker]

Seriously it's like Golden Era Batman meets Year One

[@king_supreme1102]

@@troybracy2915 there aren’t any identity politics in the show

[@troybracy2915]

@@king_supreme1102 you can’t be fucking serious? 🤦🏽‍♂️ there all over the place! This show is as woke as it comes and I was immensely disappointed because I love Batman the animated series. There wasn’t that many Black people in the 1940s especially as a chief commissioner of police and lawyers they’re also wasn’t Asians that were psychiatrist back in the 40s. Also, it’s more of a woman’s GCPD show than it is a Batman show because Batman was barely in the fucking show, and lastly I don’t think lesbians would be kissing in public in the 40s I can Keep going but yes there was a loooooot of identity politics in this show.

[@ThenewTchannel]

To me, there are two stories happening across every episode of this show. First and most obvious is the downfall of Harvey Dent, but the other story that maybe won't be picked up on as much is Batman's struggle with his singular focus on the mission. He doesn't care about his reputation with the cops, he only calls Alfred by his last name, and he really seems to consider breaking his no gun rule in the finale. After his parents died, Bruce shut out his humanity, and the show gradually shows him rediscovering that humanity to the point that there doesn't seem to be a difference to him between saving innocent kids trapped in a burning building and saving Natalia Knight even after everything she did

[@mildmayheadless5217]

@@ThenewTchannel You put into words what I could not. Thanks.

[@omarsalem1219]

Exactly

[@SwiftNimblefoot]

Agreed. And so many reviewers like Doug or Disparu completely missed this. Bruce is still starting out here, and new, and he is so focused on "the mission" he does not care about relationships or people he hurts along the way, including friends like Alfred and Harvey. It culminates in where he interrogates Harvey and at one point actually speaks in Batman's tone, not Bruce's...

[@jacobsunday6561]

@@SwiftNimblefoot this and OG post is exactly why I enjoyed my watch of the series. With Harvey and Bruce’s storylines this season, I loved how it was still “villain of the week” in format, just helps the broader world building of this iteration of Gotham

[@Femaiden]

people forget that OG Batman used a gun. .

[@alexandrefrauches132]

7:17 That's faithful to the comics. If you read a classic Batman origin in the comics, it usually starts with the death of the wayne then, the next panel is kid Bruce Wayne, in his bed, making his vow to fight against crime. It wasn't just Bruce parents who died that night, it was also his innocence. As Batman said in JLU episode "Child Play": I haven't been a kid since I was 8 years old.

[@ahabduennschitz7670]

The very early and cheesy Comics did that, but not the modern, more serious ones. I mean with your Logic you could also excuse Batman using Guns and make it a Character Traid of him because he used Guns in 1 or 2 Comics before the Character was even fully shaped.

[@alexandrefrauches132]

@@ahabduennschitz7670 One thing is not like the other. Batman using gun was retcon after the creation of Robin and writers realizing that children were buying the books. while Bruce choosing to be Batman since he was kid is something that has been consistent in most of his stories. Sure, Bruce didn't decide "I'm gonna dress like a bat and punch criminals" but his desire for revenge was already there. All he need was to find the means to achive his goals.

[@SuperWHIIITE]

That's still pretty silly. Just because it's in the comics doesn't make it good. The rogue and magneto in thing was also in the x-men comics, and it was still gross in the show.

[@alexandrefrauches132]

@@SuperWHIIITE It's not just bc it's in the comics, it's also important aspect of the character that has been present in 99% of Batman adaptations. In the case of Rogue and Magneto, it was something optional for the show but I think it work for Rogue and Gambit arc in the season. Plus, if Rogue having a relationship with Magneto is a problem bc of the age difference between them, then I guess the same can be said for Jean and Logan (who is technically older than Xavier and Magneto)

[@Tiah-mm8lp]

@@alexandrefrauches132 I like the series. It's Batman from the Golden Age of Comics. It's something that isn't as mainstream, which is pretty shocking. The art work is incredible, the architecture is beautiful, I love the art deco, and the Batmobile is so cool. I wasn't a fan of the cinematic versions of the car. This one is so cool, like an Auburn mixed with the rear of a 63 Corvette Stingray.

[@keeganross]

The "dot assassin" is Onomatopoeia, a Green Arrow/Batman Villain who works as an assassin and has a tic where all he ever says while working is either his name (when introducing himself) or the Onomatopoeia of what he's doing (when he breaks an arrow, he says "Snap.", for example). They weren't introducing a new character, they were introducing an old one, and they played him exactly how the comics played him (which, considering how goofy his gimmick is generally seen to be, has to be respected). Also, they didn't really change Clayface. That's the original Basil Karlo Clayface, an actor who became a serial killer because he was overshadowed for a role. The only thing they really changed is that he uses a chemical to alter his face, which was animated Matt Hagen's schtick, not Karlo's. Karlo didn't become the mutated mound of mud most people recognize until much further in the comics, when he assembled the Mud Pack and worked to steal the powers of other Clayfaces for himself. While the show wasn't exactly a masterpiece, you do have to respect that they were willing to work with older ideas and more obscure characters, instead of just throwing in all the more popular rogues and calling it a day.

[@manuelalbertoromero9528]

Makes me think what they plan to do with Joker, cuase it's implied they're leaning more into his original characterization from the initial comics.

[@TF80s]

If only it wasn't all so boring...

[@magallanesagustin4952]

​@@manuelalbertoromero9528that's exactly what I'm thinking about this version of the Joker. His original appereance describes him as having a toneless voice and hate-filled eyes, and that's the only two things we see in his reveal.

[@cainster]

This is why Doug needs to do more homework before ranting online.

[@manuelalbertoromero9528]

@@TF80s Subjective

[@jacktoma21]

Clayface in this is actually pretty much just a straight adaptation of his original version from the 40s comics. The only main difference is Basil Karlo didn’t have shape shifting powers but was just a serial killer in a mask

[@ronpetersen2317]

Yah ... When you make Dent an asshole with both personalities ... he is basically One Face.

[@smittyjjensin558]

Becoming two face gave him more humanity by the end ironically

[@reggiefreeborn2143]

@@smittyjjensin558 Yeah, thats pretty much the point. Two face is the real harvey in this universe. The pretty boy act mask how rotten he was as a human. The transformation shows who he is on the inside

[@magallanesagustin4952]

This version of Two-Face is supposed to be a mirror of the mainstream version (that's why his scarred side is the right one instead of the left one). Mainstream Harvey Dent is a nice person struggling his inner darkness while Caped Crusader is a mean jerk who has some good inside him.

[@ronpetersen2317]

@@magallanesagustin4952 Thats kinda dumb .... it sucks the drama, drive, and tragedy out of the character.

[@giannisksanthopoulos4300]

I guess because he is white

[@jinpei05]

Catman is an actual Batman villain 😅

[@Sparkizinho]

I love how no matter how much Alfred's appearance changes with each interaction, his personality never changes

[@BroNovaGaming]

On your point on the Penguin, I agree about the outfit in all honesty. I feel like that cocktail dress kind of outfit she wore (4:05) was better than the suit and top hat. Think about it, her dress fits tight around her curvature so they could have made it where her walk somewhat resemble how a penguin walks. Combine that with her nose, maybe color the dress in some black and whites, it would make sense why people would call Oswalda a "Penguin" and THAT could have been a more interesting, fitting, and original design. Feels like a missed opportunity imo.

[@kotlolish]

I still chuckle at that name.. "Oswalda" Can't take it serious. But the change to female did come into play really well just not as strong as it could been.

[@robertbrookes2000]

​@@kotlolishThey could've just named her Oswin. Oswalda is just hilarious.

[@Femaiden]

yeah felt really lazy, just take the male name and put an "a" at the end. .

[@xenadonau8356]

@@BroNovaGaming they knew exactly what they were doing..put some lazy gender-bender to make the audience forget that this character has nothing else

[@DU_hockeygirl40]

What is up with the Alfred disrespect in both this and the last movie? He is literally the one person Bruce can confide in and yet Bruce treats him like he hasn't been there for him.

[@frixkingly507]

That's the point, when Bruce corrects himself in one of the last episodes when he's about to call Alfred "Pennyworth" again but doesn't, that's to show Bruce realizing the disrespect he was showing Alfred.

[@bt3743]

Thats the entire point. He's an upper class rich kid who learns to see those working for him as an equal. Its called character development

[@Timeforceletsgo]

@@frixkingly507exactly, the pay off would not work well without this dynamic.

[@jdpc9391]

@@frixkingly507 I feel like Alfred should never been seen by Bruce in nothing less than a friend or a father figure. He can be mean to him but Calling him Pennyworth when since he's 12, Alfred has been the only "father Figure" he would have had is weird. This was the most Jarring thing for me, Batman treating Alfred as nothing more than a Butler during most of the show.

[@liveac3694]

Pattinson's Batman has a bit of an arc where he is clearly very cold and angry at the start of the movie and gradually learns to be more of a hero than a vigilante. I think that version of Bruce took Alfred for granted but almost losing him makes Bruce realize how much he means to him.

[@aidanhever3369]

One of my biggest criticisms is that they made Harvey Bullock into an unrepentant thug instead of an jerky cop with a good sense of justice like in Batman: TAS and other versions. It's the same problem that the MCU's J. Jonah Jameson has. Instead of being a grouchy but lovable man, they turned him into an immoral incriminator who wants to destroy Spiderman/Peter Parker's life out of spite. I don't mind this version of the Penguin being a woman. However, I have to agree some criticism from everyone. The name Oswalda sounds dumb. Although Minnie Driver did a good job voicing the Penguin, I prefer someone who sounds like the late great Pat Carroll, since she kinda looks like Ursula from The Little Mermaid. Sassy and charisma is what was missing from her. I don't know why they brought Matt Reeves and especially J. J. Abrams into this project. Those guys are controversial figures.

[@prolastmedia6171]

What's the controversy? I haven't heard anything about them

[@Unworshipediety]

I mean... Oswalda does sound totally on point. This is the Batman universe where people have names and those names sometimes sound silly. Names never through me for a loop in the DC universe, cheesy names is kind of their bread and butter. I mean Catwoman... Batman.... Clayface..., Oswalda sounds like the name of a thick gurl who goes by the name of Penguin to me at least. But oh well... it's all good.

[@xenadonau8356]

@@aidanhever3369 this is not "Penguin" archetype at all. You can't just put a suit and a top hat on a tall lady and call her Penguin. Penguin is an aristocrat, stuck in the old ways, struggling with his deformity as an ironic twist of fate, having all the money in the world, having blue blood, but still having to operate in the shadow. HERE I don't even understand what they are trying to do. She is not ugly (has 2 sons somehow), we don't see any motovation or back story or tragedy. Just some lazy gender-bender to make the audience forget that this character has nothing else..

[@LooneyCartoonMan]

​@@prolastmedia6171 Star Wars and The Batman

[@bl3343]

The portrayal of Harvey Bullock was my biggest problem with this show.

[@klimmr]

I was hoping the Untitled Review Show would be for Borderlands. 6% on RT? Really?

[@Other_Robots]

Its a bad movie 🤷‍♂️ 6% seems well earned

[@manuelalbertoromero9528]

Oh that's definitely coming after.

[@littlekong7685]

@@Other_Robots Yeah, it was built to fail. The entire directing and writing and effects staff took their names off of it before it was even into post.And the studio dumped a LOT of debts from other projects onto it which tanked its budget despite it being so expensive.

[@pegasusj4655]

Oh so it went up from its 3% yesterday…

[@matthewrowlett1564]

Jack black as claptrap... Kevin hart as ROLAND... And no Brick or Mordecai, plus a much too old Tina... Were you expecting a good film? Because I wasn't. I was expecting Semi-comedic Nonsense that completely butchers the source material. I will admit, it DID meet my expectations...

[@Durahan82]

They turned Harley Quinn into Hugo Strange.

[@terrywalters4917]

@@Durahan82, They should have just had Hugo Strange and comic book accurate Harley Quinn who should have been a medical doctor studying psychology for her psychiatric accreditation.

[@Weeniewarrior15]

@@terrywalters4917 comic accurate she was an original character from on bmas… at least this interpretation isn’t her bent on being attached to the joker. She is a fleshed out character that has ties to Scarecrow

[@terrywalters4917]

@@Weeniewarrior15, I know she's an original character from BTAS, but she still isn't comic book accurate. Check your sources. I don't care for Asian Harley. She should never have been called Harley Quinn. She should have made an original character called Dr Hayley Chin or whatever. I'd rather have another psycho-shrink than another diverse interpretation of an iconic beloved character.

[@clearMonk13]

Harley Quinn is basically Dr. Hugo Strange character

[@TiredMoonRabbit]

That doesn't really sound like strange, he was more mad science wasn't he?

[@George_Fl0yd]

Then why not just use him

[@chadharger9323]

​​@@TiredMoonRabbit With a Dr Moraeu bent.

[@kwayneboy1524]

​@@TiredMoonRabbitusually he's a bit of both but he is excellent at the mad scientist gimmick.

[@TiredMoonRabbit]

@@kwayneboy1524 honestly now I'm questioning why they haven't done more with Harley being a psychologist besides small jokes up until now, it's kinda a core part of her back story. I know the Harley quinn show has her be a therapist to batman but thats kind of it, weird.

[@DDarkestKnight]

7:30 I don't know how you found this funny. The way he appeared in Alfred's room saying "I'm going to make them all pay and you're going to help me" had serial killer vibes all over it.

[@MarlonMacielBrando]

Did you miss the point that it's because it's *kid* Bruce Wayne saying it? He's still a child, he experienced something horrifying and was lashing out. The impact is much greater when he's a young man, who had time to mourn and even experience some leisure and pleasure in his life, while having the autonomy of a young adult, is still so hung up on this, bringing vengeance to the streets at the risk of his own life.

[@DDarkestKnight]

@@MarlonMacielBrando It doesn't matter if he's young Bruce or young man Bruce or old man Bruce! Someone waking up in the middle of the night, talking like they have murder on their mind is scary as hell. That kid barely reacted to anything since the murders, and instead of coming to Alfred's room because he's afraid of being alone or something, he looks and talks like he's going to force Alfred to help hide the bodies. That's what Doug's missing about that scene this is a dissociative Bruce. Alfred almost had a kid Dexter in his hands.

[@triggerfairy4070]

​@@DDarkestKnightIts kinda hard to take a kid seriously

[@Timeforceletsgo]

@@MarlonMacielBrandoin the comics he literally says this as a kid in some interpretations. Ripped straight from the pages. Doesn’t matter what his age is, the point still remains, the death of his parents drove him to this point.

[@LokiturnedmeintoaFrog]

That wasn't really weird to me. What got me was the way he slowly closed the door without blinking.

[@cluless5227]

One thing I hoped would happen to the penguin when I first watched it was how they would reveal the son would become the og penguin. This for me would make a dynamic of a mother penguin vs og penguin that might appear more in the future.

[@tonyjohnson1580]

That idea kind of reminds me of fish mooney and penguin from gotham.

[@dreamlandnightmare]

17:45 - They don't do anything with it because the character's creator, Kevin Smith, didn't do anything with it. Onomatopoeia is a one-note gimmick villain with no substance because that's how Kevin Smith wrote him from the get-go.

[@michaeljeacock]

ironically since the complaints about the gender-swapped Penguin, gender-swapped Onomatopoeia is Superman and Lois was much more interesting.

[@jlev1028]

​@@michaeljeacockI don't know why they called her that. Other than the costume, she had nothing to do with the character, lacking the whole repeating sound effects schtick. She was just another superscreamer with a tragic backstory.

[@giovannimorenohernandez4656]

I honestly think Harley is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy too over used as well. She has been pushed hard as someone separate from the Joker for a while.

[@hadoct1315]

This show has a bit of an identity crisis. Yes it’s different but sometimes it’s almost like it’s different just for the sake of having it be different. The 40s feel is great and awesome it’s the most unique part of the show and the darker elements are super cool but it just feels a little too much like they couldn’t commit to that 40s environment and instead it’s window dressing for what ultimately is a 2024 Batman show. They needed to lean more into storytelling that worked in a 40s setting. Is this a dark adult Batman show or is it a lighter 40s Batman detective show. It’s almost like they couldn’t quite decide which; this causes the tone and setting to feel a bit off

[@RabbitShirak]

It sounds like a mix of timelines? Batman TAS also mixed different decades.

[@mychaeljones7526]

Agreed

[@BogusBigusDingus]

No it doesn’t, it’s actually quite focused in on its setting and world building. It’s a 1930/40’s -> fantasy

[@Sci-Fi-Mike]

The changes just don't work for me. The atmosphere and backgrounds do look really good.

[@amarcellus1714]

Bruce Timm had Paul Dini and Alan Burnett to hold him up.

[@telmovaz]

@@amarcellus1714 also shirley walker's music and andrea romano's casting direction are noticably absent. Rip

[@vanishing_girl]

Neither of them were involved in Justice League/Justice League Unlimited (well Dini wrote a couple of episodes but he wasn't on the staff) or Green Lantern: The Animated Series, but it's true he's more of a big picture guy. Even if he has a good aesthetic and greater plan in mind, he needs the writers to carry out his ideas through (he's an artist not a writer), and Brubaker did not come through.

[@memesarekeem]

I hate to say it, as good as writer as Bruce Timm is, he's proven multiple times he can't do an animated Batman very well without Paul Dini. From my understanding and watching of the DCAU, either Timm's ability to write Batman has deteriorated or Dini always had greater control over the character.

[@Timeforceletsgo]

Except this series is really really good. Me thinks he can do Batman after watching it.

[@KotoCrash]

It blows my mind that, when asked why the villains were so weird in this, Bruce Timm OF ALL PEOPLE said it was because "Batman doesn't have that many good villains"

[@ToHoldNothing]

For Penguin, I'm pretty sure he explicitly said that BAtman doesn't have a lot of female villains. There was a seed of an idea, I think they could've subverted the penguin lifelong mating and precious care of the eggs more, like she just kills anyone that gets in her way, even if it's her own flesh and blood like here (just add in something with her late husband)

[@FatViking93]

This show just proves that Paul Dini is the better Batman writer.

[@razorsimon6681]

I really didnt like how they show harley quinn, like the reason she is crazy in other media she was basically groomed by the joker and when she quits him, she's still affected by him in ways, but in this version she just dresses up as a jester and kidnap some douchebag rich guys untill they give their money away, also that episode just felt like someone was trying to show his "personal hobbies" to everyone, also i think harley quinn is overused too much as well

[@prolastmedia6171]

I actually think this works way better, it's actually gives Harley some agency as a character. The whole "Joker groomed me" thing was always kinda dumb, especially considering that Harley is supposed to be a PhD meaning that she's not only meant to be intelligent but also mature. Joker grooming her kinda makes Harley seem like a dumb teenager right off the bat which is less interesting and not in line with her backstory, plus that's why we always end up getting annoying, dumb quirky Harley Quinn media. Id rather her be an actual character

[@zoltanracz5591]

​@@prolastmedia6171sure erase everything that made her character it's not like that's what a character needs. Identity politics that what makes a good story right.🤦

[@prolastmedia6171]

@@zoltanracz5591 How did they erase everything that made her character? All they did was separate her origin from the Joker, she's still a psychologist who is driven mad by the vices of her patients - they just gave her the agency to do something about it herself. Are you saying "everything that made her character" is simply her origin with the Joker? Also what about anything I said is even remotely related to identity politics?

[@zoltanracz5591]

@@prolastmedia6171 i never said that you said anything aboute identity politics but just look at everything now days and tell me what does not have it because of activist for "representation". Also if joker never meets harley then she never goes down that path because she falls in love with him and that is why she becomes a criminal to be with him.

[@kyleashley9294]

Most robins were in the show: the orphans names were Kerry, Richie, Jason, and Stephanie. No Tim though.

[@prolastmedia6171]

Dickie not Richie

[@ocuyo]

or Damian

[@bl3343]

At first I thought the reason they left Tim out was because he's not an orphan, but then they put Carrie in this and she's not an orphan either.

[@ToHoldNothing]

@@bl3343 Also, Stephanie isn't an orphan, unless you count the situation itself: her parents aren't dead, her mom's borderline institutionalized/alcoholic and her dad's well...the Calculator, so kind of in prison or doing criminal stuff

[@oilspill2064]

Ya I hate that skipped tim

[@geekdetritus5503]

It's a reverse on Two Face. Once he gets deformed he rages, but when he calms down the scarred side of him is shown to the camera. The deformity is used to remind him that he has a good person inside of him, and that trying to be that good person is what caused him to be attacked

[@benwasserman8223]

Yeah Bruce Timm was pretty upfront about this twist. In a twisted sense, Harvey gains more empathy and humanity once he’s scarred, rather than loses it. Same goes for Bruce - it takes until the finale before he finally addresses Alfred by his first name.

[@xenadonau8356]

@@geekdetritus5503 what "good person". All we ever saw throughout the season is a selfish ass

[@Shrapnel82]

""A lot of us have a huge love for Batman: The Animated Series." Unfortunately, no one making this abomination did.

[@chasehedges6775]

THIS💯💯💯. It looks pretty bad

[@prolastmedia6171]

I think you guys might be blinded by nostalgia. This show actually surpasses BTAS in terms of writing. Aesthetically i do think BTAS looked better, but Caped Crusader is an extremely well written series

[@TheLockdownKidNYC]

​@@prolastmedia6171 This iteration of the show could never and will never touch the genius of "Perchancr to Dream" or "Baby-Doll." The vulnerabilities and subtlety that made Batman TAS great is not an art respected in today's "loud and in your face" social messaging flooding every reimagined IP from yesterday. What Doug is doing is analyzing these choices from a writers point of view and saying "Why are they changing this character? It doesn't work because..." They changed things because they change just to change. They change to make it more "modern." They chose to make the first episode the Penguin gender swap episode to maximize viewership to make sure all the fans knew that the thing you didn't like...they did and did it loudly. It was intentional and spiteful.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@TheLockdownKidNYC u nailed it. 💯

[@dutchvanderlinde2002]

​@@TheLockdownKidNYCthe penguin change honestly wasn't that big of a deal to me. However, Doug had a good point about how the attire doesn't work.

[@IBrowneeI]

You know, the Penguin being a woman with two sons was so unnecessary. They basically already had that character made in Batman Beyond, the episode 'The Eggbaby'. Someone new named 'Ma Mayhem' and her two sons are stealing jewels and such. Could've easily just taken her and put her in a main series. Why change up a pretty firmly established character.

[@IaIaIaIaIala]

The reason and why familiar characters change gender or race. It feels like you just woke up. This has been done for a long time and Batman is simply following a newfangled trend, whether it needs it or not.

[@horadetodososlegos]

Ma mayhen, the new penguin, ma vreedle in ben 10... is this a trope already?

[@ToHoldNothing]

I feel like Bruce Timm and others may have an answer, but one would have to dig

[@Josh-ez5hf]

Bruce Timm was onlyone person who worked on the animated series. You had Paul Dini who was only ever able to write some of the best episodes of the series and Kevin Altieri who changed the trajectory if Harvey Dent's character from what Timm had originally planned

[@Rtotalmagic]

How much? There were two BTAS Writers Bibles during the production process, and both had the idea of setting up Harvey Dent as an honorable hero attorney who is good friends with Bruce Wayne, as in the series... Some of the changes made for Caped Crusader (Bullock as an unambiguously corrupt cop, more focus on the GCPD internal politics, Gentleman Ghost as a villain) originated in discarded ideas from these writers bibles...

[@Josh-ez5hf]

@@Rtotalmagic I know in one of them Harvey didn't have as much depth as he eventually had in the BtAS episodes

[@TheKillerman3333]

If you are going to make a female penguin, make it a penguin obsessed woman. She talks about the son she gave up, how ugly he was. She was grieving and went back home. Her house, his room was penguin themed. Her mind breaks. She unaware that he is still alive uses her money and power to take over Gotham. Batman, aware there are two penguins running around realizes their connection. One raised by birds and able to control birds. The other, a grieving mother with a horrible coping mechanism. Through this, you can combine the Batman returns movie with "The Batman" animated series. That was the one with the Kabuki twins. You can even add in a bit of flavor by having the Kabuki twins play a greater part as well.

[@Ninjutsu703]

I think changes like altering a character’s race or gender are often made for the wrong reasons these days. For example, changing Penguin into a woman didn’t add much to the story and lacked significance. Similarly, making Jim and Barbara black could be interesting if it explored how their race affects their experiences with the law in ways that their counterparts wouldn’t have. However, without that exploration, the change feels superficial. Regarding the Harley Quinn situation, I don’t understand why she dresses the way she does if the Joker isn’t involved. Why does she act more upbeat out of costume but take on a serious tone when in costume? It would make more sense for her to be more down-to-earth out of costume and more serious when she’s in costume.

[@bookerplayer01]

These days when a character has their race or gender swapped it's done to generate buzz and hype about the show/movie/etc rather than add anything new to the character. It's been done so much as of late that it's basically a cliche now and terribly lazy.

[@dante_0962]

Because it’s more disturbing if a mother kills their children and penguins are known to have a strong attachment to babies and they even still other penguins eggs.

[@Leftturnaddict]

These days is where I’m lost on what you are saying. Cause you can say that about race changes in general. Did we really need it in Daredevil with Ben Affleck? No. Honestly it’s all debatable. But acting like nowadays it’s just bad is kind of ridiculous.

[@Leftturnaddict]

@@bookerplayer01It’s always been that way dude

[@justicierodelaliga]

Funny how 99% of the time the race happens from white to black. The last 1% is when the swap is from white to Asian. But never, EVER, the other way around. That would be racist. ...and please, spare me the comments: there are plenty of white characters. And there are plenty of characters from other races as well. People just have to bother and do a little research. Look what James Gunn did in THE SUCIDE SQUAD. He brought back and made popular a character that most people forgot existed: Bloodsport.

[@tonyjackson4078]

One crazy thing is the photographer Eel O'Brien is the alias of Plastic Man. Edit- Also Nocturna is a character Timm has wanted to use forever. It is interesting they foreshadowed Carrie Kelly Robin, slingshot and all

[@saphcal]

yeah all of the orphanage kids were named are robins. all of them. i think Tim Drake (and Damian Wayne I guess) are the only ones not references in that episode.

[@Aussieroth7]

All Hollywood needs to do, is to stop rewarding idiots who fail to the top and make them the head of everything.

[@chasehedges6775]

Soooo true.💯

[@chasehedges6775]

Hollywood needs to get better and needs to start focusing on good storytelling and characters.

[@billsloan]

Bruce is a well-proven non-Idiot.

[@SwiftNimblefoot]

I guess you didn't understand the reason Harvey is like this. He is a good guy who wants to clean up crime, but he lies even to himself that accepting money from criminals and taking dirty deals is OK as long as you do it for a good goal. He cleans up his act in the end when he throws the case Thorne wanted him to do. And he does have a split personality - you didn't notice that sometimes, his scarred side takes over and it is his GOOD side in this version?

[@petermj1098]

Harvey Dent is called Two-Face because he has a secret vengeful and agressive ugly side despite being a good handsome man. Harvey dent’s story is a tragedy is that he was a good DA but his suppressed anger mentally took a toll on his psyche. Harvey’s suppressed anger ended up turning into a persona.

[@Rtotalmagic]

I think the idea of Harvey having good intentions needed a better setup. In his first few appearances, they place too much emphasis on his sleazy side...

[@austinforgie1069]

So Doug is fine with a Bat checkbook but not a bat credit card? 😕

[@jlev1028]

He let go of that dumb running gag after Linkara called him off on it.

[@exceedcharge1]

The way i see harvey dent is that in the beginning his good and evil mixed together and after the acid they become separated two distinct halves. He goes from calmly murdering people to a man overwhelmed by guilt. Harvey did feel in the middle morality wise to me, he did all those awful things in order to become mayor where he would be able to do the most amount of good.

[@timothycarney9652]

I like what they did with Harvey actually- so many adaptations try and sneak in a sly reference to the Two-Face name before he gets disfigured, this one actually is two-faced from the start- and we get the opposite change from the 90's series, instead of Harvey being a great guy who is revealed to have severe psychological issues at the last minute before it turns him to a villain full time, This harvey is a jerk that does want to change things, and when he wants to do better, he feels the need to make a deal with Thorne to have ANY chance of becoming Mayor and changing things. At the same time as we got closer and closer to his maiming, we get more and more moments of him being genuinely nice, culminating in him refusing to do Thorne's bidding, Knowing it would probably cost him the election, but he was happy to do the right thing, then he is maimed, has breakdown that Bruce's pressure forces into a overt direction. He does get more of the split personality then most two faces as well- more then the 90's one got in most episodes, if you pay attention he does waffle about the things he is doing and does go on about "how could I do such a horrible thing" with the nice twist that the camera focus shows its his DISFIGURED side that is the remorseful one. Pay attention to when he has Thorne and his kid at gunpoint, and what he says, when each side of his face is hidden vs revealed by the shot composition. There are things they could have done differently, and while I appreciate how willing they are to kill off characters, that does mean we won't get further exploration of that approach.

[@ToHoldNothing]

It's almost not even dissociative identity disorder, but may be a variant or something akin to schizophrenia, like Twice in My Hero Academia, since he's aware of the dual nature he has We could have Barbara feel challenged in fighting crime while feeling the justice system is broken if she does become Batgirl, especially with Harvey's death on her conscience. Plus coming into conflict with her father and possibly Renee depending on how she progresses

[@nightking0130]

This just felt mediocre. All the voice actors seem to be trying to hard to do impressions of the btas voice actors. At that point why not just bring some of them back. Also batman seems to take a backseat in a lot of the episodes. Maybe this would be better if were more than ten episodes but these seem pretty standard and generic. Also why is batman such a dick to alfred.

[@yarc9]

The voice acting is great

[@prolastmedia6171]

Yeah let's bring back Kevin Conroy! Great idea!!

[@yarc9]

@@prolastmedia6171 he dead

[@nightking0130]

@@prolastmedia6171 obviously some people cant come back cause they are no longer with us. You knew what I meant. Why is joe Dimaggio clearly doing a impression of Robert Costanzos bullock when Costanzo is still working.

[@Adorni]

Bruce deciding to be Batman in college fits with the character; in one of my favorite comics, we see him in class when the teacher is asking a question, and it comes down to “what is right vs what is the law,” and realizing he would have to compromise his ideals and what he’s even doing this for is what informs Bruce that he cannot just be a cop or a police detective or lawyer or what have you. That he HAS to be something that is not strictly beholden to the Law

[@SwiftNimblefoot]

You fail to get the point of the Penguin too. That whole thing about him being ugly and yet accepted? NO. That was never the deal of Penguin, that was only the deal of Burton's Dany deVito Penguin. The comic and older cartoon versions were simply crime lords with a gimmick. And being a fat bald dude with a beak nose and a waddling limp helps also to make the Penguin look comical and easily underestimated, when he is truly a ruthless evil bastard. This female one does the same, but by being a respected lounge singer who mixes with the top of the elite, while at the same time being an unlikely crime lord nobody suspected.

[@LoverOfBellies]

The Spiderman Noir show is meant to be on Amazon rather than Disney+ which doesn't make sense

[@prolastmedia6171]

Makes sense to me, they actually want the Noir show to be good so they're keeping it off Disney

[@llemS_U]

A couple years ago I saw Batman 1989 for the first time and I was like "Dude Billy Dee Williams was going to play Harvey". I really would have liked to seen him play Two Face. I wonder how he would have done.

[@DarkOverlord96]

He did in The LEGO Batman Movie.

[@krazykorean2525]

the masked killer is onomatopoeia and he works better in comic form

[@Panthror]

Which Robin are you talking about? There were 4 in the carnival episode, and a name-drop hinting at a fifth one the next episode. **SPOILERS BELOW** The four orphans were: Dickie = Dick Greyson; Robin 1 Jase = Jason Todd; Robin 2 Carrie = Carrie Kelley; Robin in The Dark Knight Returns Stephie = Stephanie Brown; The blonde girl Robin a.k.a. Spoiler Name drop was: Maggie Cain; Cassandra Cain's aunt(?).

[@VictorGreinvolfe48]

The one that actually helped in the episode was Carrie, so he’s probably referring to her.

[@justoneguy2487]

RIP Tim Drake

[@shadowknight1509]

Cassandra cains mom is Lady shiva

[@ToHoldNothing]

That tracks, given how she's depicted from what little I've seen: mostly Gotham Knights, where she's a drug abusing alcoholic that gets prescriptions fabricated by her husband who gaslights Stephanie

[@homiesoprano]

I'll stick with the OG animated series.

[@joshinthesauce4636]

I really don’t like how Batman treated Alfred in this show. It was really bothering me considering that he’s the one who raised him, treating Bruce like his own son.

[@prolastmedia6171]

Sorry to tell you buddy but Bruce Wayne is a child billionaire who never learned proper social skills. There's is a 100% certainty that Bruce would treat Alfred poorly, at least at first til he becomes a more well rounded person. We see hints of this in almost all modern Batman adaptations from Bales TDKR to The Batman to even Affleck constantly dismissing his Alfred in BvS

[@original_caffeinator]

No need to gender swap Batman villains, he has such a strong female rogues gallery already. Could also do serious what Harley Quinn show did as a kinda joke: Mr. Freeze dies & wife takes his place as a rogue.

[@prolastmedia6171]

No need not to swap them tho, the gender of a character isn't really a relevant criticism

[@Unworshipediety]

No one made a peep when they switched up Copperhead, DC gendeswaps all the time. It's not a new phenomenon, it's been going on for 40+ years. They've even had a female joker! *gasp!* I think if you're going to reimagine a universe you've gotta freakin' go for it. Be creative and make your mark, of course don't be overly creative and change every damn screw, nut, and bolt. But yeah, if you don't create something new, then you're just wasting everyone's time by making the same ole crap but with a slightly different shade.

[@jlev1028]

​@Unworshipediety Copperhead was never an important character, and Arkham Origins has a contemporary aesthetic. Bad rebuttal.

[@Unworshipediety]

@@jlev1028 Keep making excuses for pissing yourself off and buying into the matrix of hate. It never ever ends. I'm gonna chose to be happy and look for the positive so I can be pissed off about real stuff. I really don't see the point of getting mad at creative people, teams, and new ideas. At the end of the day, you know mainstream stuff is always going to rise to the top. People like the *same* crap they grew up watching. It's ingrained in their heads, but if something new goes along, I'm ok to linger in the aftermath and to champion it. But even I didn't like all the stuff in the show, but I'm not going to boo-hoo the effort over lil quibbles of a show that's actually good. I personally just like new things. Cause I know the older things are always being to be what rises to the top at the end of the day. It's just nice to see new inventions and new ideas.

[@ThePreciseClimber]

How about a Harley Kingg.

[@corygoverno4323]

So, from my understanding on what they wanted to do with two face was this. Throughout the season we see him actively conflicted between winning his election and wanting to do it ethically without the mob. All the while he was rejecting help from friends and colleagues. Then when he finally got burned and we see both sides, the cinematography has his more human side be the one talking about revenge and murder. Meanwhile the burned half seems to be the more regretful, kinder side. I could be reading too much into it but I think they wanted to paint the “Human” Harvey Dent as an asshole and when only after he burns his face does that part of him actually regret what he does and did. Similar to a Frankenstein monster or hunchback where the ugly part of him is actually the good one.

[@behindthescenesphotos5133]

Nothing so awkward and infuriating as a period piece "updated for modern audiences."

[@chasehedges6775]

💯💯💯. Yep. It looks pretty bad/mediocre and I'm not gonna watch it.

[@chasehedges6775]

I think I'll just watch The Dark Knight(2008) or Joker 2019 again. “Why so serious?

[@douglasbabb1725]

In regards to Harvey Dent, I had the same complaint when they made him an unpleasant character in Beware The Batman as well. Everyone who knows him knows that he's slimy and self absorbed, and you wonder why Bruce Wayne spends more than ten seconds around him. In BTAS and The Batman (w/ Christian Bale), you really do feel like he's not just a good man, but a good friend as well and not only has the city lost something, but Bruce Wayne has lost one of the people he really thought he could trust.

[@SycrosD4]

The biggest sin of this series is not that it’s bad. It’s worse than bad. It’s BORING

[@chasehedges6775]

Exactly

[@wolfofpersia2275]

I don't like it I mostly hate it because of changes almost every single one of the changes were meh at best and complete garbage at worst and before any one say "you only hate it because it's different from your precious BTAS", I freakin love the batman 2004 and I adore the animated series and I even vibe with the brave and the bold depending on my mood, these 3 shows are 3 different beasts because the changes at least made sense or in some parts (clay face in the batman 2004 for example) were spectacular they just dropped ball specially with two face, at least the ending was kinda ok I guess... oh and art style is really cool... that's it I really wanted this show to be good and now I am not even sad , just disappointed

[@Mohamad-m7md]

I’m with you man changes has to be GOOD not usless gender swaps or whatever swaps it especially doesn’t make sense in the 1940s

[@myriadmediamusings]

Well now I wanna hear his thoughts on my adventures with superman

[@dariendarkhouse8538]

The whole point of Two-Face is that they are two people in one body. The entire point of flipping the coin is to determine which personality wins when they have a disagreement. I really hope James Gunn understands this, because every version of Two-Face that I see just gets ruined by people not understanding it

[@corbanoT.V.]

I'm excited to watch this one for myself, especially the design, the old 40's design is my favorite Batman look ever

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

Unfortunately, it's only the skin of the 1940s and not really the 1940s itself. It feels more like a show with too much modern aspects with a 40spunk style.

[@prolastmedia6171]

​​@@ellugerdelacruz2555Thats not true at all, literally everything from the aesthetic to the technology to the sound design, to the stories themselves is spot on Hollywood Noir. Watching this feels like im watching someone play the LA Noir game with a Batman mod. Do you have any specific criticisms that we can discuss to see where we differ or did you just generally not care for the show?

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

@prolastmedia6171 So the police back then had SWAT teams, even though such a concept originated in the 1960s? Also, high tech live television, even though that tech wouldn't be initially utilized until a decade later? Youe argument if aesthetics doesn't actually disprove my argument, it actually supports it since Insaid that this show was more of a modern day wearing the skin (aethetics) of the 1940s rather than actually being set in them.

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

@prolastmedia6171 "Literally everything"??? So the police had SWAT teams back then, even though such a concept wouldn't be a thing until the 1960s? Also, live tv news broadcasts, even though such tech wouldn't be a thing until a decade later? Your argument doesn't actually disprove me. If anything, it supports my claim that this show is just set in the modern world with modern-day principles, albeit with a 1940s skin (aesthetic).

[@king_supreme1102]

You are THE person who I most wanted to hear their opinion on this. Thought the show was very well done and I can’t wait for more. I liked the Two-Face take. Because Harvey was an asshole, but his good side won out in the end. Which is what caused his descent into Two-Face. Tragic in a different way. Imo. And I disagree about the Batman voice. His deep voice is his natural one. His Bruce Wayne voice is an act. They show it subtlety. In that scene where Bruce is talking to Harvey, that you mentioned. The “don’t start growing a conscience now Dent” outburst was in his Batman voice. Showing his truer self break through for a moment. Before putting the phony voice back on. Bruce is his phony voice. And I really liked the new Barbara. She should be whiny. She’s trying to be moral in a city that has no morals. And she came across as very competent and self sufficient. How many times did shit hit the fan and she whips out a pistol and gets out of the situation?

[@KOdestroyer]

@@king_supreme1102 the right take right here

[@dillonwright13]

Dude, I was thinking the same thing about the scene in question, when Bruce let Batman slip out, and even better, Harvey here was voiced by Diedrich Bader, the voice of Batman in Brave and the Bold and Harley Quinn, which would make Bruce a reflection of Harvey in that regard, one person with two different personalities.

[@htruman]

I was saying in the Harley Quinn Show, Harvey Dent was a real jerk. He would not even give Gordon some licorice.

[@X_Kaijuju_X]

Lol what? U must like the new borderlands movie too 😂

[@MewJoy]

He never said the Batman voice wasn’t Bruce’s real voice. He said it was done poorly and it can’t emote. Which is true. It sounds fake even though we’re supposed to believe that’s Bruce’s natural voice.

[@dannyorange9023]

Just sick to death of everything being a take. "If it ain't broke don't fix it" is what I've been screaming at DC for decades now it seems. Like, why are they constantly trying to subvert expectations instead of just trying to meet them?

[@prolastmedia6171]

This is probably one of the most comic accurate interpretations of the Batman that weve had in animation for a while. Its also consistent with "The Batman" feature films that are currently coming out. So how exactly were they trying to subvert your expectations?

[@jlev1028]

​@@prolastmedia6171By pointlessly raceswapping and genderswapping certain characters.

[@MrThademon]

The Asian Harley was completely redundant when they could have just brought in Punchline. Strikes me as an unnecessary race swap when that character is already there.

[@mttylerdurden9]

Barley anyone outside of comic readers knows about punchline. Also she's not a psychiatrist so her inclusion wouldn't make sense.

[@jlev1028]

​@mttylerdurden9 But why make her Asian? It felt like Jewish erasure.

[@ThePreciseClimber]

@@mttylerdurden9 > "Barley anyone outside of comic readers knows about punchline" All the more reason to use her, right? No one really gave a crap about Mr. Freeze before BTAS, for example. Adaptations like this are an opportunity to make characters more mainstream. > "Also she's not a psychiatrist" And Mr. Freeze didn't have a frozen wife before BTAS. And Harley Quinn wasn't Asian originally.

[@BogusBigusDingus]

Nope, worked well.

[@doubleHLabs]

Cat woman's maid, best character

[@mobbs6426]

I still can't get behind a Harley Quinn not attached to The Joker. Her character is one of manic obsession. She turns her entire persona into Joker's girl, and even if you never saw the two of them together, you'd know where her allegiance lies. Without Mr. J, she's nothing, at least that's what she believes, and to move on from him is to move on from Harley. Harleen Quinzel clearly has issues, and I have no objection to reworking her character to be detached from the Joker. It becomes an exploration into whether Joker broke her or if she was already on the trajectory long before they met. This villain should be Manic Quinn. She's exposing people to their secret desires, so she should be costuming up as part of that. Instead of a harlequin costume, she wears a faceless morph suit, dons fetish costumes, and tortures her victims with their fantasies. The flat persona would work here, too, as the mannequin aesthetic shouldn't be too emotive. She wants to have no sympathy for these people, so she won't expose herself. I'm actually quite interested to see this interpretation, as they mirror one another. Harley becomes what Manic seeks to destroy. An extra layer of tragedy to the original character. You could even have Harley break through in certain moments and expose Manic, who's secretly getting off on this roleplay, while acting disgusted by the whole ordeal. Instead of giving in to her darker side, she buries it under others' darkness, and hides from her true self. C'mon, this does cook, and allows us to distinguish Harleen both attached to and separate from the Joker. Oh, to have competent writers on such a task. Harley is one of my favourite DC characters, and I want to see her handled correctly. Manic could be an equally compelling character, whether in a separate universe to Harley or as a follow-up to her.

[@TheCommenterDragon]

I for one found it to be pretty interesting! I especially love that the series takes place in the 1940's. I was totally shocked when I saw Harley kiss Renee, But it Also makes me wonder if the people of this 1940's era are open minded. Because you know even back in the 40's the LGBTQ+ community was frowned on and or not accepted by society. I'm also wondering if Harley and Renee will have a canon relationship in season 2, Because they might go with the whole route of Renee making Harley change her ways like Harley would have to choose what's more important to her, a relationship or a life of crime.

[@bt3743]

Can't wait to see all the grifter opeds about how its unrealistic and "woke." the fact its a work of fiction about a guy dressing up in a batsuit and beating up supervillains doesnt matter to these assholes

[@ericneirynck8830]

@@TheCommenterDragon watched it a while ago? It came out last week

[@reggiefreeborn2143]

it's a very alt version of the 1940s, you see alot of tech thats thrown in that wasn't there in that time. So it's leaning on the TAS iea of retro ,modern(the TAS was supposed to be 90s believe it or not)

[@baymaxinarmor4133]

@@ericneirynck8830 Who gives a crap? I can't believe you're getting on someone's arse over something so trivial.

[@difference3maker36]

It’s not accurate cause they said it would be a Batman from the 40s from his og golden age comics But yet they have race swapped characters and lesbian kisses that would never fly in the 40s Being gay in the 40s was not normal at all back then so it doesn’t make sense

[@wstine79]

This is a better adult animated Bruce Timm Batman project than "Batman and Harley Quinn."

[@georgehernandez2156]

Nah

[@htruman]

True. Plus they made Nightwing a jerk to the other JL Members.

[@lazerbeams2536]

Batman and Harley Quinn was pretty much unwatchable. A one man show animated on post it notes would be a better show

[@jonathantefft2902]

Anything is better than Batman and Harley Quin.

[@Davidsworldtravels]

This just proves they should have given this show to someone who was inspired by Bruce Timm - when he was good. Reminding of that movie just shows he’s fallen off hard for a long time.

[@archangel1547]

I think instead of another Batman series they should’ve focused on another, older hero who’s firmly planted in the 1930s/40s who’s a dark and mysterious crime fighter though more violent than Bats who actually kills his villains. If they had made a series like this centered around “The Shadow” and reintroduced him to a new generation would’ve been so cool. Though I dk how many people would’ve tuned in considering Shads hasn’t been in the public eye in decades.

[@MmmMmph1968]

I'd give the show a 7/10. I liked the plots and the characters, although I haven't seen BTAS so I can't say how it compares. My only complaints (besides using 3D models for cars...I hate that) is that the show doesn't really care about its setting and that it tries *really* hard to have a balanced cast. Like you can't say that this is set in the 40's and have 2 women going on a date in public. You can't have the racially balanced cast during the 40's and not make light of that. Normally I prefer it when shows don't point out racial differences...but again, this is not set in the modern day. This is set in a time of segregation and discrimination, but they make no mention of it. And I'm not asking for much. But something as simple as Commissioner Gordon being looked down upon by the mayor would be appreciated. This doesn't affect the show all THAT much, but as Nostalgia Critic said, the Penguin should not be a woman. You can't just change everybody's race and expect no differences in the way their characters are portrayed.

[@aaronnapier1167]

Honestly I feel like DC just cannot beat marvel or consistently make good quality stuff anymore 😢😢

[@chasehedges6775]

True

[@ReacherFN]

17:31 with Onomatopoeia as a character, I thought they were going to have him actually mimic sounds. Because that would be supernatural and eerie. Where Batman is fighting in this chaotic event and he cannot trust his senses because the hitman is mimicking sounds. Maybe he does a sound of a gunshot to bait Batman into moving away, or he distracts him by having a cry for help, maybe he is looking for Gordon and Onomatopoeia talks like Gordon to trick Batman. I think the potential for a hitman who controls sound is super good and they could have gone super creative with it.

[@OfWhatsToCome]

The fact Bruce is a dick to Alfred most of the show also put me off.

[@prolastmedia6171]

Sorry to tell you buddy but Bruce Wayne is a child billionaire who never learned proper social skills. There's is a 100% certainty that Bruce would treat Alfred poorly, at least at first til he becomes a more well rounded person. We see hints of this in almost all modern Batman adaptations from Bales TDKR to The Batman to even Affleck constantly dismissing his Alfred in BvS

[@robertlauncher]

Honestly my thoughts on main characters getting gender/race/whatever swaps can be summed up with a Planes, Trains, and Automobiles quote. “Have a point!”

[@mattphillips3537]

Harley Quinn also made Harvey Dent an asshole. Do cartoonists have it in for him?

[@Rtotalmagic]

Beware the Batman was the worst offender. I get you want to move away from the idea of someone becoming evil just because they were disfigured, but BTAS already had a good solution there...

[@AnvilPictures]

5:47 Catman is a character in DC comics. He is also gay

[@NeoPortaPotty]

Glad someone already posted this lol was gonna say that's uh that's already a thing lol

[@reesestahl9493]

The guy with the dot on his head is named Onomonopia and him speaking with sound effects is kinda what he does in the comics (since they are onomonopias)

[@prolastmedia6171]

Why do people keep saying dot lol its a BULLSEYE not a dot lmfao

[@KJK97024]

@prolastmedia6171 Why do you care?

[@nemowindsor8724]

I liked that Two-Face’s scarred side was actually his good side, his buried conscience. Becoming Two-Face somehow made him much worse and much better. There was a lot of reversals like that - like how Harley Quinn is usually bubbly and fun as the harlequin, and uptight and professional as Harleen Quinzel, but is now serious as the clown and bubbly as Harleen.

[@CannonKnight]

Was Bruce Timm pretending to be Two Face and flipped a coin on whether to race or gender swap each character? That's actually how meaningless those changes are. Has there ever been a woman who wore a monocle?

[@prolastmedia6171]

Is this all people like you think about? Just review the show for its actual substance and stop being a snowflake ❄️

[@TheBlueArmageddon]

Sure, then we can talk about how the show is set in the 40s but never dwells into civil rights or homophobia

[@zoltanracz5591]

@@TheBlueArmageddon nobody cares about those because people watch stuff like Batman to get away from reality. I don't want to see identity politices in a cartoon because there is plenty of it in real life. The only reason they made these changes is to push an agenda like Strong single moms Lesbians Evil white man Non of these are needed in a batman story.

[@gamerforlife3946]

@@prolastmedia6171Dude if you aren’t even a batman fan, don’t come here and defend meaningless changes you would like as a snowflake

[@gamerforlife3946]

@@TheBlueArmageddonGo back to twitter

[@GaiasWunderkind]

Making Gordon black - race swap: checked Making the Penguin a women - gender swap: checked Making the Series a bland, woke and pathetic poor copy of the original animated series: CHECKED

[@mttylerdurden9]

Define Woke

[@jlev1028]

​@@mttylerdurden9Ignoring the racist, sexist realities of a time period you set a show in.

[@GaiasWunderkind]

@@mttylerdurden9 It dosen't matter how I define woke.. it's what those people who are creating these shows considder to be "woke" namely exactly that: convulsively trying to get rid of what's normal, no matter what! And please spare me with the "define normal" bs, we both know what i mean.. Frankly you can sum it up like this: the modern woke wants to get rid of everything that's white and hetero. They show it and even say it time and time again. So again, please cut it with these retoric bs questions...

[@chazarcola7639]

​@@mttylerdurden9😂😂😂😂😂

[@behindthescenesphotos5133]

@@mttylerdurden9 Over-indulging in identity politics. In a 1940s setting you have a black police commissioner, female Asian psychiatrist, public lesbian kissing, but also Montoya (now built like a football player) complaining she's not respected just because she's a woman. Trying to have their cake and eat it?

[@protogenxl]

Penguin should have been a prominent Mother Teresa/Mother Angelica level Nun. Then it's the whole mystery of who is the Penguin?

[@jersydvl]

Peguin looks like he's about to give the audience a lecture on some goofy pronoun nonsense.

[@Adamguy2003]

This show's perversion of the character reminds me more of Mom from 'Futurama' than the Penguin.

[@Dim4323]

If she was like The penguin mother it would work.

[@jruss9851]

@@protogenxl Or, here's a radical idea: maybe NOT change his gender? I know, revolutionary

[@lehahiah81]

@@Adamguy2003 That's the first thing i thought when I saw the episode.

[@25Leprechaun]

I agree with a lot of what Doug is saying, I do find it odd that he says the Joker is overdone(IMO he is) but not Harley. I know a lot of Batman fans are at least starting to feel Harley being shoehorned into too many things. I personally don't feel so yet, but I can see where they are coming from.

[@motherplayer]

To Harley's credit to her inclusion here, they are taking a swing at her having a persona more rooted in her job as a Psychiatrist than Joker's squeeze

[@cm1701a]

Agree 100%. Dini’s writing skill is missed. Changes were for change sake and distracted from story rather than add to it.

[@ad1kher0gaming71]

Batman Arkham Origins will forever remain my favorite iteration of a Batman's first years.

[@Tadicuslegion78]

I feel like the biggest thing hurting this show (which I am interested enough to see a second season) is one the length and amount of episodes. Like it needed either more 30 minute episodes or longer hour long episodes for 10 episodes

[@prolastmedia6171]

I think you've been spoiled by modern streaming shows. Ten 30 min episodes is perfectly fine for a first season. It was well paced and the finale felt satisfying

[@the7princes339]

Personally I wish Harley Quinn and Joker didn’t appear in this show ( mainly because I think they’re overused in my opinion) and instead replaced with lesser known villains. First Harley could be replaced by Great White Shark who could be a wall street type going after the elite after the market crash (mainly to tie in more to the time period and still get the rich man bad story). Secondly I think it would be more interesting if it wasn’t joker being teased but the horrifying Mr. Bloom ( a really cool new villain who is perfect for the mature Batman show).

[@JaxBlade]

Agreed on a lot of points! I thought It was pretty good w/ unique concepts. But tbh Nothin that spectacular that made me HYPED to keep watchin & it just didnt HOOK me like S1 of Batman TAS, Beyond, Or The Batman (2004), which I’m currently rewatching atm, did. IMO it was just fine overall.

[@adamantiiispencespence4012]

Really? What's fine about it? I thought it was awful. It's a real question by the way, I'm not just being an ass.

[@LordKang]

@@adamantiiispencespence4012 your are being an ass

[@Leftturnaddict]

⁠But your being a little aggressive about it.

[@gryphonofmight]

This series makes me realize that Paul Dini deserved more credit than he got

[@davidlowery9975]

I haven't seen anyone mention the quick King Tut "cameo" in the Harley Quin episode. What a great way to reinvent a cheesy '60s Batman TV show villain.

[@UntroddenGaming]

The best part was when Batman respected the criminals pronouns. I really appreciated that.

[@nicholashylton6857]

Sounds like they really should have gone a Futurama "Mom" -type character.

[@ALEXACEDEATH]

I watched all the way to the Harley episode and my main reaction was constantly; why did they do it this way? Or this doesn’t really make much sense… You can feel a love for the characters and the source material, like the part I loved about the Harley Quinn episode was the Return of the Joker movie nod. It constantly felt like they wanted to take the character in a different direction without taking into account everything that goes with it. Like they actually make Clayface a great and highly praised actor that’s just old and ugly, literally at the full opposite extreme of prior representations were he’s either talentless or good-looking but turning gray. But when the catalyst comes it makes no sense… Specially on the angles from the lady’s reaction… They tried playing it like phantom of the opera, but hastily and ignoring what drove the phantom to crime in the first place… Heck they even play it up as if the girl actually admires and cares for Clayface before the transformation… I almost wish that a lot of these episodes could get extended into a two-parter just to get better character development… Everything just feels really rushed. Also I’m still annoyed that they just straight up turned Harley into Hugo Strange…

[@kylebartkiewicz7274]

Harley is THE new over used character

[@dylansearcy3966]

17:51, that's onomatopoeia

[@JumpNShootSH]

inb4 everyone stops the video to say it was Onomatopoeia

[@prolastmedia6171]

Well maybe Critic shouldve actually done a little bit of research instead of spewing uninformed opinions

[@KJK97024]

@prolastmedia6171 All he said was that he wished they had done more with him. And he’s not exactly wrong. Besides, this is probably going to be most people’s introduction to the character. So cut him a little slack.

[@b3rz3rk3r9]

One of the things I hated was Detective Bullock's interpretation in this. I know this guy is likely different from Detective Harvey Bullock as he's likely based on Lieutenant Harvey Bullock, but I hate that they made him a corrupt cop. Of all the things people can rughtfully call Bullock - slovenly, filthy, foul-mouthed, rough, brutish, and hot-tempered - but NOBODY can rightfully call Detective Harvey Bullock a corrupt cop, and DEFINITELY NOT a flunkie under Flass' control. In fact, the REAL Bullock would've gone to Flass and busted his jaw for working with Thorne. That man treats that badge not just with resoect but loyalty: he may bend the rules, but he does not break the law. People that DO break the law around him get punched or shot, depending on what was needed in the moment.

[@JohnSmith-cn4cw]

Change for the sake of change is bad. Onomatopoeia wasn't changed at all, the Harley Quinn character had nothing in common with Harley Quinn. The whole point of Harley Quinn was that she was strong brilliant female character with a highly self destructive love of the Joker. That's kind of what made her character interesting, because without the Joker angle, she is just an overpowered Mary Sue character.