How 2010s YouTube DESTROYED Sonic

[@chaomix]

Do you remember the 2010s era of KZbin constantly mocking the entirety of Sonic? Do you agree it was the worst era to be a fan? Or do you think there's another era that was worse?

[@Sonikku_Za_Hejjihoggu_1991]

Reply

[@supremegalaxycentral]

Yes. Well I was born in 2010, but I remember some people making fun of me in 2nd grade for liking it

[@shenanigans213]

Yes I definitely agree I remember rarely seeing good videos about sonic around that time

[@jamiegioca9448]

I was barely a Sonic fan at the time, only watched the hella cool Colors trailer

[@CrozyOMD]

yup

[@BWHERE]

Worst era to be a Sonic fan was DEFINITELY the 1950s. It felt like NOTHING Sonic related was getting released...

[@meltedelevator]

fr there was like a 40 year gap between 1950 and a new sonic game releasing...

[@Bigger-smoke45]

Nah the 1400s was the worst

[@jamiegioca9448]

Still better than 2006 (B.C.)

[@ninlaw9810]

better than 14,000,000 B.C.

[@fidelalonzo5460]

I remember when the IDIOTS at sega made a cigarette commercial for sonic 2. That was NOT apart of his character.

[@zachpro5475]

Sonic had a rough transition to the 2010s KZbin

[@Kintsugi23]

2010s KZbin was never good

[@cliffturbo2146]

When will you learn THAT ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!?

[@Kintsugi23]

@@cliffturbo2146 you fricking fricks

[@yoshimina4551]

@Kintsugi23 disagree, I don't think the whole era should be brought down just because of one reason

[@thatguynobodywants3716]

The only correct version of the statement

[@thereel1_real]

Sonic was the definition of “OH, BUT WHEN *I* DO IT, IT’S A PROBLEM!” in the 2010s. Thank God that era’s behind us.

[@TermiHorsecity]

That just sounds like how society treats me. Poor Sonic, I can resonate with the hedgehog on a deeper level

[@shawerful5209]

2006 cursed the franchise, i think that even if a new game is great, the fanbase will still be divided, unless the game is a 2d Sprite style

[@TermiHorsecity]

@@shawerful5209 I want the toxic vocal minority of the sonic community, and vocal minority of the haters alike to finally come to a truce to stop being so overly negative, and have a civilized space for everyone. Before you say it, yes I know every community has as a vocal minority. However, some of them were able to mature and settle their long beef to become more chillaxed.

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

Granted. I also hear this almost exclusively when people do genuinely horrendous crap and pretend it's okay because somebody got a way with it before, like Monica Lewinsky affair. Just like sonic.

[@srcoeiu6100]

Don't mess with us Sonic fans, we've had to deal with social prejudice 💀

[@zakjakob]

Pointlesshub said a quote on his video on The Boys that perfectly encapsulates the whole KZbin 2010s fiasco. “Too much hate towards something can become just as annoying and intolerable as the thing it’s making fun of.”

[@camocaplamo4020]

That actually fits perfectly

[@eye-chan1711]

I completely agree with this. I’m not a Mrbeast fan, but seeing everyone try to cancel him for years has just burned me out to any actual drama around him. It also really doesn’t help that the drama was milked for literally everything it could be.

[@Hallowpool193]

Agreed

[@SonicParadox]

Only the strongest survived this era!

[@lemonduckstudios]

Hey Sonic paradox

[@33pandagamer]

hi

[@AAAaahhj]

the legend himself... thank you all for all those good memories you proportioned to me basically a decade ago, i will never forget them.

[@Autokyasuto]

Thank you so much for the wonderful memories back then. You’re a legend.

[@mc.gemstone]

We may of survive, but at what cost?

[@IdeoHazamaFan3000]

Didn’t realise how prevalent irony poisoning in the 2010s internet was specifically until this video made me think of more examples. Like how Minecraft was called cringeworthy after a certain point, up until people became nostalgic again. Glad that Sonic could push through.

[@suprememingus6877]

trends come and go. a never ending cycle of people liking things, getting embarrassed by it and trashing it when popular opinion shifts and influencers tell them it sucks, only to inevitably like it again when they're told it's ok to like it again.

[@subjectnivleis7572]

Look at the massive hate bashing the star wars prequels got once they got a nice serving of star wars without lucas suddenly the " geroge lucas r@#ped our childhood" people have been very quiet to try and save there careers from how they contributed to the downfall of a franchise

[@prod.kilvkrxcksxlvd8183]

Tbh, I think Minecraft only stopped getting hate once Fortnite came around and people found a new 9 y/o kid’s fixation to beat on for internet points

[@IdeoHazamaFan3000]

@@prod.kilvkrxcksxlvd8183 I think you’re right. People really did act like Fortnite was the spawn of Satan packed into a video game, and that kids were missing out on growing up with Minecraft. Kids can’t do Anything

[@prod.kilvkrxcksxlvd8183]

@@IdeoHazamaFan3000 honestly, I was surprised Roblox or Terraria didn’t catch as much fire as FN or Minecraft, then I realised people just believed Roblox was a Minecraft ripoff for years and Terraria was just it’s 2D version. It’s like they didn’t even think those games were *worth* bullying 😭

[@GenericProtagonist118]

So listing off the things that made Sonic hated for so long: •Cynical 2010's Internet Culture •IGN being the worst video game reviewers •AVGN Clones •Arin Hanson of Game Grumps being dogsh*t at video games •The Archie Comics and its occasional weirdness •DeviantArt having some of the most psychotic fandoms in history. That's the worst combination of thimgs to happen we'll ever see...

[@landonhagan450]

Forgot Chris chan.

[@matheuspires2462]

Yeah Also the last one is the worst one

[@matheuspires2462]

​@@landonhagan450 and Jasonic The dude who did it with a freaking Sonic plush for years

[@e1iteyoshi998]

Oh god don't get me started on Arin. He's got such an elitist attitude to the point where even people even consider him a legit video game critic. And to some extent Dunkey. And the fact that not so long ago that fan perception ended up being confirmed to affect some of the games in 2010s is even more proof. I'm convinced they wanted Sonic Frontiers to fail so they can fulfill some sort of sick fantasy.

[@dangerousdays2052]

@@e1iteyoshi998 I'm still mad that the Covid didn't get Arin. 😒😒

[@pillls3573]

I once saw someone point out that when a sonic game has glitches people mock it endlessly but when a mario game has glitches they are 100% necessary to the experience and fans get pissed when they are patched.

[@ashhabimran239]

Whenever a new game has a bug or glitch, they'll clown on it and pull the mOdErN gAmInG card, but when an older game (one that technically had more time to be patched) has bugs and glitches, they claim it's nostalgic and made the game special and charming. Double standards and nostalgia goggles plaguing the Internet

[@Daft0Cean968]

i don't get what you mean

[@bowmaj8666]

It's true. When a Mario game has glitches, people are always like "yeah, the glitches are awesome! Now I can speed run the game and the glitches make it so much betterer!" Yet when a Sonic game has glitches? "Urgh, the whole game is completely unplayable! In fact, even if it didn't have glitches it'd still suck! Sega should've just scrapped the whole game and given us something different!"

[@redactedinfo8557]

gotta be honest man, I think there's a difference between something that can break the game or ruin the fun like Silver tossing Sonic into the void for an infinite amount of time vs a glitch that can make a Mario game more interesting if you master it, like the BLJ or infinite flutter or that walnut jump.

[@bowmaj8666]

@@redactedinfo8557 That may be the case, but at least Sega learnt from their mistakes and gave us an infinitely better Silver boss fight in Generations. Now imagine what would've happened if they'd have listened to all of those overly critical critics and their "constructive criticisms!" "Urgh, the whole game sucks! The gameplay sucks! The story sucks! The characters suck! The graphics suck! The bosses suck! The fact that it's a 3D game sucks! The fact that Sonic has yucky green eyes sucks! The fact that the bad guy isn't called Robotnik sucks! They should've just scrapped the entire game and gave us a true follow up to the Classic Genesis games?" That toxic mindset is ultimately what lead us to Sonic 4.

[@mushroomdude123]

I can’t stress enough how much of a paradigm shift Frontiers was. I’ll never forget how blown away I was by that first titan fight. It felt like I woke up from a coma. It was the first time in so long that this series was unapologetically cool. Compared to where we started, we’ve never been in a better place as a community.

[@rickyronny4019]

Frontiers and the Sonic movies restored my faith in the Sonic series

[@UltimateRed-bj7mo]

So true. I know not everyone is super into Frontiers, but I feel some sincerity and ambition behind it. The first time in a while for a mainline Sonic game. I hope the next game can carry on that energy and go even further.

[@codysonic1]

Hell that game had one hell of a glow up! It was not a good look then through out the year more features were shown. Trailers were more cinematic and I can remember first hearing “I’m Here” and “Undefeatable” in the trailers.

[@rickyronny4019]

@@codysonic1 yeah. After all the updates, Sonic Frontiers has became top 10 of one of my favorite Sonic games

[@MaxusFox23]

While the Sonic movies' success was a product of global backlash when the first trailer dropped and it took bringing in a literal Sonic fan to fix things, Frontiers is a true example of passion and risk. I had my expectations so tampered due to how lukewarm the marketing felt and being so lip tight about the story but then I played it. Then the reveal of how the Ancients looked like happens. And by the time I reach Giganto and "Undefeatable" starts playing... *literal chills down my spine.* Something I honestly don't remember the last time I felt as a Sonic fan. That was the moment I thought: Welcome back, Sonic. Is so good to see your old self again.

[@Tazer_Silverscar]

I think the 2010s era was ALL ABOUT kicking things when they're down. There were some truly awful people around at the time... and sadly, a lot of these people are still around.

[@GreekShinobi223]

If anything the toxic 2010s Internet era was the foundation for the toxic Internet era of today

[@Tazer_Silverscar]

@@GreekShinobi223 Oh yeah, absolutely!

[@filetransfer5383]

@@GreekShinobi223 No. The toxic culture of today comes from twitter post tumblr-porn ban. You have to understand, tumblr was a containment site for the overly sensitive cancel-culture stan-culture doxxing type people, the same people you see on twitter today. These people were unhinged, but at least they were on a platform that no official channel was listening in to. Cue the tumblr porn ban, all of them flocked to twitter. This was a site that was widely ridiculed for its fringe userbase, the wider internet culture as a whole knew and avoided it and its users like a plague. Tumblr banning porn as well as the 2016 elections really set things off for the downfall of the internet, its depressing that those losers managed to gain a foothold into the wider culture and essentially bully others who didn't have the same values as them. If these people find anything largely problematic in sonic today, they will be so much worse with it then the 2010 figureheads were. I can guarantee it.

[@rainpooper7088]

@johngreek0424 At least the toxicity is common knowledge these days. Back in 2010s, you had to figure that shit out yourself.

[@selassieaspen9940]

😂​@@rainpooper7088

[@Choctopus]

Good video, bro. I dipped out after Secret Rings and Sonic 4 for a while but you gotta know what “It’s over” feels like before you can experience “We are so back.”

[@jaasielk]

What?

[@windygulch7916]

Thanks for giving sonic a second chance on your channel now pls ask alpharad to do the same 😂

[@prettymuchmemes9735]

oh ma ga its choctopus

[@BrennenButler]

YO WHATS UP

[@Ray-rg3qd]

My comment has more likes then yours 😈

[@kinoleogeo7998]

The moral of the story, stay critical, but sincere about what you love.

[@TheMenaceHimself2006]

I love SA1 but I felt that SA2 really improved in the story department

[@ashhabimran239]

Unfortunately hyberbolic hate and slander gets more views and attraction over earnest, level-headed criticism

[@Hugo-yz1vb]

Basically, if you like something, have the guts to say it's good or bad independently of your personal bias towards it, and the same goes for things you don't like, have the guts to say it's either good or bad aside from the fact that you don't have any personal attachments to it

[@blank6377]

Probably why I respect Somecallmejohnny

[@areakastudios6704]

I LOVE how you described the whole “irony” thing. Psychological influence can impact a series more than you think. One of my siblings was always super dismissive of the franchise, and said “Sonic lost, Nintendo won.”

[@KKHell]

Nintendo and Sega's rivalry ended in a stalemate more than anything. They got swept twice by the Playstation and the effects are still felt today.

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

11:44 Oh wow, yeah, I can have something to LET OUT, towards this True Scotsman argument of "Instead of avoiding GENUINE emotions, just be vulnerable". Didn't feel like using genuine reasoning today, huh? Just decided to say that VULNERABILITY is "emotions". No, vulnerability is what unvaccinated people have. YOU just don't have actual WORDS for "vulnerability", so you let the mask slip and just say "be open so I can move into your space, and you can thank me for being there". No, that's actually not automatic. You need to HELP and not just satisfy your ego, usually exploiting vulnerabilites and blaming that people CAN COPE WITH it. Often times "letting people close" is just being their therapist for free. COPING. That LITERALLY MEANS handling the problem. YOUR irony poisoning is calling "coping" a bad thing by reversing its meaning for a meme. And it's not irony, it's just deliberate illiteracy.

[@NicknineTheEagle]

@@KKHell That makes me wonder what an alternate timeline where Sony never went into game console business would look like. Would Saturn still be a failure? Would Dreamcast last longer?

[@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist]

@@NicknineTheEagle My guess is that the Saturn would still fail and Dreamast could've lingered around long enough for a third Sonic Adventure instalment. However, we would've had much more different Sonic games and the console war would last longer. Potentially, SEGA could've made a higher quality console that helps their games into better quality. They would still inevitably lose the war due to Nintendo having more recognizable mascots that are "made for kids". Perhaps some would've given more hope during that time but I personally wouldn't change it with what we have today.

[@benmalsky9834]

@@NicknineTheEagleIt’s been said by Yuji Naka that Sega would have gone bankrupt if they continued being in the console business. My guess is that they would have liquidated their assets and have them sold to another game company or even have all of their assets acquired by one single company. We should be very thankful that they decided to end the Dreamcast while they still had enough money to survive as an independent company.

[@xyiotegaming2023]

bruh it was this stigma around that led me to get bullied for being a Sonic fan.. defo worst era to be a fan imo

[@Kompressor808]

Stigma ba-

[@SilversEmporiumofGaming]

@@Kompressor808shut up.

[@Kompressor808]

@@SilversEmporiumofGaming I'm sorry

[@PhoenixPower65]

Same but still i Keep moving and faces my bullies

[@JVCS-b6z]

​@@Kompressor808 no, keep doing it

[@StarBracerr]

I was in high school during this era and I remember having a phase where I would try so hard to hide my love for sonic, even giving away a lot of my sonic merchandise or putting it in storage 😢💔

[@ztupidiezmartie6803]

I feel you man, I thought I was alone, till my classmate told me he liked Sonic too and he was mocked because of it

[@sonicthehedgehog1606]

I feel your pain

[@damienalvarez2957]

There was a time where Christians were persecuted, so they invented a secret code to identify each other: a fish with an open tail fin. Maybe we should use something similar, like the outline of a sneaker lol

[@andersonsansonowski5644]

bad high school student: I HATE sonic you: but why? bad school student: ........

[@Koko-pm4qq]

I'm sorry you had to resort to that, people are jerks. I got bullied badly for liking Sonic too.

[@OldRedGrizzly]

Reading the comments, I think there's some stuff people either need to remember or to understand when it came to Arin Hanson and his influence. Cause I've seen some people say "oh but it many KZbinrs and reviewers," and that's true, but Arin was different in key ways. First was, he was huge. His popularity cannot be understated: he was the golden child of Newgrounds back in its peak. He was their #1 for years after he stopped animating. And that's what he was known for at the time! He wasn't known as an "entertainer" back in 2012 or 2013, he was first and foremost known as an artist and animator. The whole "he an entertainer" part wouldn't start to come about until after Jon left the channel. Not only that, but he was greatly respected within the community. Well... until he backstabbed them and burned every bridge he had years later, but that's a story for another time. At this time, though, people took him at his word when he said things because he had that respect and reputation built up. Just look at his Sequelitis video on Ocarina of Time, people believed his criticisms of the game, even if they were pretty bad. It really wouldn't be until years later, when he played the game for Game Grumps did everyone realize just how garbage that video actually was. So you got this, basically an internet superstar, dragging Sonic again and again and again, people listened, they believed what he said. Remember, he was chosen by Sega to be an ambassador to their brand, that's not an honor you get by being a nobody, that's something you get when you have a lot of influence, and he did. And it wasn't just Sonic, either, although that's the most infamous. To this day, people still take him at his word about games like Skyward Sword and Mario 64. So yeah, while there certainly were many others, he was one of if not the loudest of them all, and he had an already dedicated community at his back to hear what he had to say, for the worst. And Game Grumps itself was, for a time extremely influential. However, that's all in the past, but again, that's another story for another time.

[@sambridgers9543]

Wait, how did Arin betray the Newgrounds community?

[@OldRedGrizzly]

@@sambridgers9543 It's been a while, so the details are a little foggy. But basically, he said "oh, yeah, actually my time there sucked and people were awful and hostile." Then a bunch of artist came out saying they were pretty hurt by the claim, because that was not the experience many of them had, and were upset because Arin was one of the people who used to be very involved and supportive in the community, so they felt kind of heartbroken by his what he was saying. A lot of them expressed, essentially, that he was throwing the community that made him big in the first place under the bus.

[@sambridgers9543]

@@OldRedGrizzly Ah. Thank you.

[@CoralCopperHead]

@@OldRedGrizzly ...So they were upset that he revealed the truth? The people at Newgrounds _were_ awful and hostile -- him included. I was there. Image Nation Animation, RubberNinja, the Clock Crew, the works. Just about the only one who was even remotely chill was Metal Maverick.

[@Joskilani]

"If you managed to avoid this era of being a Sonic fan, consider yourself lucky" Nah, that's *when* I became a fan. Lmao. Basically started right on the battlefield

[@Rman1228]

Earned our stripes out on the battlefield fr 😭😭😭

[@whoasked9500]

Felt this for real. I began liking this franchise in 2013, so uh yeah I was in the middle of this shit.

[@superhedgehog6447]

Same, I started becoming a Sonic fan when SONIC BOOM RISE OF LYRIC came out Lmao 🤣

[@Joskilani]

@@superhedgehog6447 same actually lmao, i think for me it was only a week before rise of lyric released

[@whoasked9500]

@@superhedgehog6447 F

[@Thebes342]

Ah yes, the “Sonic was never good” era. How… nostalgic.

[@Rman1228]

That's certainly one of the ways to describe it 😭😭😭

[@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778]

Yeah remember IGN said that on sonic mania of all games and everyone mocked them for it. I’m sick of gaslighting people telling us that the things we love where “never good” or that we “just grew up” these people aren’t fans of sonic. They only care about mocking it. They do the same with halo aswell!

[@srcoeiu6100]

​@@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778you go on weird spaces then, Halo 1 through Reach are cherished classics

[@Your-Local-RX-Guy]

​@@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778 I've noticed this is a problem that extends far beyond sonic now. Gran Turismo, Spyro, and even the almighty Mario are just some of the franchises taking heat as well.

[@Byrdstar6423-un3me]

About as nostalgic as food poisoning

[@dominator_virus427]

Not only was I a fan throughout the 2010s, but my favorite character was Silver. Yeah.

[@somemadnessfan4763]

YOOOO SILVER FAN

[@thenightwriter619]

God I remember when even fan animations and the like would always make Silver the butt of every joke. That sucked.

[@riymeep6708]

We’re still in the hard times 😔

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

weakest silver enjoyer vs strongest shadow fanboy

[@castform7]

Silver was very much dealt a bad hand, not only was he in Sonic 06, he also just....hasn't gotten a chance after that. Rivals...is Rivals, he had cool boss fight in Gens and then special cutscene in Forces where he loses. I just feel like they haven't and never really want to do anything interesting with Silver after 06.

[@coreyferreyra]

When you discussed how society was getting much more irony-pilled, my mind went straight to something Fredrik Knudsen (from Down the Rabbit Hole) said on stream. The only reason Undertale worked as a sincere story is because it was wrapped in the ironic language of the time, and it led to a lot of people starting to re-learn sincerity.

[@TheSultan1470]

LOL UnderShit

[@Burn_Angel]

@@TheSultan1470 Yeah, that's a very 2010-ish comment.

[@C_Ketsukane]

@@TheSultan1470 regard alert

[@juan-ij1le]

Which stream was it?

[@TheSultan1470]

@@juan-ij1le The one with UnderPants as the featured game.

[@UltraSTH]

I remember straight up being picked on in school for a bit for liking Sonic and it absolutely sucked, I ended up just hiding my interests from people until I graduated high school

[@Katakuna15]

Welcome to the club.

[@jskywalker58]

ls mark: i like sonic, fucking deal with it

[@Chillin-jg8vg]

My friend got bullied just for saying Sonic is better than Fortnite and my sibling says I play kiddie games just Because I play Sonic.

[@enderknight1442]

Bro, same.

[@KakarotTF]

you deserved to be bullied for that 🤣🤣🤣

[@UltimateRed-bj7mo]

This brought back bad memories. "Alienation" was the best word you picked to describe it. Seeing basically everyone shit on the franchise in bad faith and then watching Sonic Team and the official twitter be like "lol yeah, Sonic DOES suck" felt just... really horrible.

[@jskywalker58]

why bother pandering to people who didn't even like the franchise

[@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778]

@@jskywalker58because company’s take a “for everyone” approach. For whatever dumb reason sega keeps trying to appeal to Mario fans by making sonic less cool. Never appeal to people who aren’t your audience. They won’t drop Mario to play sonic. Just like with halo trying to appeal to cod

[@Probably_JENOVA]

It really was a horrible and cruel time. It made Sonic fans in general appear as outcasts in the gaming community. Sometimes it feels like straight up bullying.

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

i’m sure aaron webber is a perfectly fine dude irl but i lowkey kinda hate him for having a hand in all of that. the guy in charge of the social media, the face of the franchise on the internet, should not be helping to ruin the franchise’s image. dude fucking sucked at his job and did nothing but hurt the IP, and i’m glad he’s gone. the social media still posts idiotic shit from time to time but at least they’re not bringing on arin “i’ve shit my pants as a grown man at least twice” hanson to do collabs anymore

[@rainpooper7088]

@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778 As a Mario fan, I take offense to the existence of Lost World lmao. Sega just does not care to understand how and why certain Mario elements work and on top of that is usually *behind the times* even where a slow-paced franchise like Mario is concerned. Super Mario 3D World is nowhere near the best 3D Mario game, but compare it to Lost World and it's outright laughable how behind Lost World is. Sega had Sonic do a lava world with a giant Bowser chase fight when even *Nintendo themselves* finally got the damn memo that those were overdone and that fans wanted something else for once. That's like a whole different level of being out of touch. Oh, and then Bowser's Fury decided to do a Super Saiyan series of fights that was cooler than anything Sonic had done in years just to rub it in. It's not that there's nothing Sonic could learn from Mario(and I'm not just taking about "polish"), it's that Sega is too dense to figure out what those things actually are.

[@manuelinacio4038]

The worst time to be a Sonic fan was during 2013-2018. It was so bad I need to take a break from the series for 4 years, I eventually returned thanks to Sonic Movie 2 and Frontiers, but I still remember nobody treating the series with respect including Sega and Sonic Team themselves.

[@HOTD108_]

And that break you took was still less time than it takes Sonic Team to make a new mainline game these days.

[@Tokuto-kun]

I'm surprised at how little Chaomix brought up the stigma surrounding the fandom around that time. The stigma surrounding the fandom was arguable the worst part. Whenever someone brought up liking Sonic, everyone's stigma and biases towards Sonic fans was instantly evoked from all the memes about Sonic ocs and fanfics and Deviantart. If you liked Sonic, people assumed you were part of the "cringe" crowd, and I remember having one friend online who wasn't into Sonic who treated me with sort of respect but oddly as a sort of outcast? They'd ask me all these questions like "what is it like to be a sonic fan" or whatever and it was clear that they viewed me in a different light to "normal" people. All for a fandom mostly comprising of normal people who just happen to like the blue blur, who don't have ocs or edgy fanfics or questionable fetishes, at least that's what it seems like these days unless you purposefully hang out around more eccentric areas of the internet.

[@RaiginAnimator]

So true everyone at my school Would talk shit about everything I liked or disliked because I was a Sonic fan. I remember not being into Fortnite bc shooters just aren’t for me. And they said of course you can’t like good games Your a Sonic fan. And that’s why I hate Fortnite. -

[@Johnmrobinson-vb5vd]

Being a sonic fan back then was like being a starwars fan during the prequels

[@Johnmrobinson-vb5vd]

@@tlst94 probably

[@maxg1891]

I surprised you didn't mention the Sonic Dreams Collection. That game was essentially the culmination of the 2010s Sonic hate and what people thought of the franchise and its fans.

[@Greg56_]

And alongside the fact that every major youtuber only played Dreams Collection and not the actual Sonic games really helped sour Sonic's reputation

[@heroicgangster9981]

2010s Sonic franchise straight up feels like the time everyone was so weird and xenophobic about JRPGS, just because they lack being grounded and are earnest with their weird but ambitious storytelling. Everyone was trying too hard to be a critic of what is objectively good storytelling or not bleh

[@DARS_04]

there's no racism like american racism

[@staringcorgi6475]

I thought most gamers already respected ff7 and chrono trigger even got Nintendo to release xenoblade to america

[@weirdyakuzafan]

@@staringcorgi6475 To be fair FF7 is basically the Dragon Ball of JRPGs, even people who don't know anything about JRPGs have seen a Sephiroth or a Cloud Strife, you'd get made fun of more if you didn't like (OG) FF7 if we're being honest

[@Blackcloud288]

Ain't no "the time" about that. That is still entirely the case today. SO much of the western gaming sphere dismisses JRPGs on principal unless they look and play like Dark Souls.

[@JVCS-b6z]

​@@DARS_04 you haven't seen a lot of racism then

[@lordpeeps1]

That era of sonic i also feel like traumatized fans so much its the reason why so many fans nowadays are so reactionary. You cant criticize a game too much or you’re a hater, but you cant be too positive or you’re glazing/ a shill.

[@GreekShinobi223]

Nah, that's just the 2020s being the "no positivity allowed" era of the Internet, Sonic was caught in the crossfire

[@lordpeeps1]

@@GreekShinobi223 true. Still feels like we live in a “cringe culture” kinda

[@KazShiro]

Can make that similar parallel with Pokemon

[@JoeContext]

I want to say "traumatized" might be an overstatement but I'm in a Sonic discord that has convinced me otherwise for years. It genuinely feels like they've forgotten how to actually enjoy video games at times

[@benmalsky9834]

Nothing grinds my gears more than being called a “shill” for saying something positive about something.

[@Ray-rg3qd]

Dude I remember I couldn’t even mention sonic with out getting bullied 😅

[@thirdsupernova]

I remember when I asked a friend back in middle school if he plays Sonic games. And he said no because it's gay

[@RaiginAnimator]

Yes

[@ChubbyCheekMan]

Same I was suicidal at one point because bullies just won’t stop, tldr I was the “sonic kid” and that’s basically enough said

[@isaiahscobel]

Considering their unironically trying to be “edgy” and “nostalgia-bait” like “generations” no shit you got bullied Ever since they fucked up X-Treme, this franchise has been nothing but a shitpost and will continue to be a shitpost

[@somemadnessfan4763]

@@isaiahscobel i'd argue the franchise started to be a shitpost DURING the 2010s the main series stories were all bright and sometimes almost nonexistent, the official social media posts (although sometimes funny) usually went "LOL remember Sanic 06??, how bad😂😂". I think the Sonic Boom series is the only one that does this shitposty tone right since it RARELY dunks itself (and when it does it's usually more respectfully)

[@BioAlpha5]

i KNEW it had an effect on the franchise. had a convo with someone awhile back and they said content creation had no influence on sonic. it totally did.

[@jvts8916]

Another infamous part was the bashing of side characters. Because 06's different gameplay styles stuck, it lead to people blaming the playable characters. This lead to Sonic 4 ditching most of the cast... but still kept the big shifts into a worse gameplay style that lead to the cast getting so much heat, only the world felt more dull now that only the main characters were allowed to do things

[@TheComicKid_]

"Sonic and his annoying friends"

[@sambridgers9543]

​@@TheComicKid_That's how we get stuff like "Sonic, help me!"

[@bowmaj8666]

@@jvts8916 THANK YOU! This annoying attitude towards Sonic's "stupid" friends has bugged me for years! And the sad truth is that it's nothing new at all. I'm going to show my age here, but I was a kid when Sonic first came out, and even back then people used to hate on characters like Tails and Knuckles, complaining that they sucked and saying stuff like "oh Sonic is a kajillion times betterer than those stinky characters! I play Sonic games for Sonic; why would I want to play these dumb characters? Even Sonic hates their guts!" And that was before the days of the internet! Even the mere likes of Tails and Knuckles were "too many characters" for these people to comprehend, and if you were to mention Amy Rose or any of the Chaotix, they'd probably have no idea who you were talking about. Games such as the Adventure titles and Heroes had a few issues, but to be fair this era was still when these characters were arguably at their best. They contributed to the story and pulled their weight; some even had character arcs that they went through (nothing groundbreaking or Oscar worthy, but nothing insulting to the audience.) People complain about their alternative gameplay styles, but that's where improvements could be made. Yet people still complained with their "urgh, too many characters! Sonic's stinky friends! Don't like 'em, waaaahh!" Then the infamous Sonic 06 came along. Now, in fairness, there were some good ideas, people praise Shadow and Silver's story, and some even argue that we got the "best" portrayal of Shadow in that game (I don't personally share that sentiment because I personally think that Shadow's portrayal is a tad overrated in that game, but I can at least somewhat understand why people like it.) However, characters such as Tails, Knuckles and Amy are arguably the worst additions to that game, as they barely contribute to the plot and aren't really written that well. The worst offender being Knuckles. It's like they wrote him in to be the punching bag of the game, like they were straight up telling the audience "HERPY DERP, ain't he silly, kids? Time to laugh at the silly red thing!" Again, despite this, improvements could still be made. However, the damage had been done. People have whined about practically every single Sonic supporting character, and always for the most nitpicky of reasons. And the people at Sega clearly know this, yet instead of ignoring such toxic negativity, they instead just doubled down. They not only sidelined all of these characters, making it so that only Sonic is playable, but they also flanderized all of their personalities so that they're completely incompetent in the stories. It's like Sega are purposefully making these characters as annoying and useless as their haters and detractors always thought that they were. Like, how on earth is that supposed to be an improvement? It's even worse when they come up with strange alternatives. "Well, the problem with drastically different gameplay styles isn't the fact that they're too drastically different from Sonic's gameplay style! No! The problem is obviously Sonic's friends! We can do whatever the heck we want with Sonic; give him a sword, turn him into a stretchy armed werewolf, and have him gain new abilities via alien jellyfish! Literally ANYTHING has got to be better than having Sonic's lame-o friends be playable, am I right? At least that's what all of the critics are saying, and they always know what they're talking about, right?" It's one of the reasons I didn't really like Chip. I thought that people hated Tails because he was an "annoying, cutesy flying sidekick!" So he gets shoved to the sidelines only for Sega to introduce ANOTHER annoying, cutesy flying sidekick? Again, how is that an improvement? I'd take Tails piloting a transforming plane, or Knuckles treasure hunting over Sonic with stretchy arms performing wrestling moves any day of the week! Why? Because they suit their personalities! Sonic becoming the Werehog just felt like Sega panicking going "the game is too short! We need to pad it out! We normally use Sonic's friends, but we can't use them because people hate them! So only Sonic can be playable, but now what are we going to do? Pass me some random words out of a hat and we'll make a gameplay style out of it! Ok, Werewolf! Arms! Stretch! We're turning Sonic into a stretchy armed werewolf!" This proves that listening to this kind of toxic negativity is ultimately hurting the series.

[@YungandRekless545]

Let's be real. A large part of why the mainstream turned against the Sonic was because of Arin and IGN.

[@keiyakins]

also proto-kiwifarms undermining the fandom as part of their harassment campaigns.

[@Fabriciod_Crv]

Sega making Arin be the official representative of Sonic didn't exactly help things either

[@somemadnessfan4763]

and SammyClassicSonicFan, though unintentionally

[@projectmessiah]

I feel like people really overblow Arins impact on Sonics image, sure he definitely perpetuated some shit talk towards Sonic but he never hated Sonic in a malicious way and all the stuff he usually complained about was already very much existing criticism.

[@fidelalonzo5460]

​@@projectmessiahDidn't know being terrible at games is criticism

[@payosito]

uhhh pro tip: NEVER be a child around 2010's with unrestricted internet access willing to watch any video with "sonic" in the title

[@piranhalettuce]

Should've told me that a decade ago 😐(I still have flashbacks of stupid arguments I got into in the comments.)

[@mc.gemstone]

god I feel that on such a strong level

[@ExtremeWreck]

Sonic Bloopers: *Am I a joke to you?*

[@belstar1128]

i am so glad i am not a zoomer

[@caramelflann]

Unless the next words are shorts or oddshow

[@atavious2491]

Let also be real here, Sonic wasn't the only franchise facing this kind of hate. Anything pop culture related in the 2010s was also being met with this same kind of slander on the internet. MLP, Steven Universe, Legend of Korra, Five Nights at Freddy's, anime, etc. I have already seen the peacock documentary "I Love You, You Hate Me" a couple of times. The documentary about Barney The Dinosaur and people hating on it, in age before the internet came out. This to me just shows that we as human beings still don't fully get how the internet works or how we should probably use it. The internet and social media is still fairly in it's infancy right now. The 2000s and 2010s was really just the beginning of modern technological history. We still have a long way to go in order to fully discover what the potential we truly have with this technology the newer generations are given. Yes, this might've been early brainrot, but I personally think Gen Z being ironic or facing everything with irony and humor is something that was inherited from older generations like gen x and millennials. If you really look back at what the world geo-politically was like back then, there were things like 9/11, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the 2008 recession. People didn't want to face the reality that we were essentially repeating history with the Vietnam war, but now that we have the internet, American/western culture had something to vent their frustrations to and in most cases, were using escapism and pop culture as their excuse to cover up their insecurities and not facing the real world. When you talk about irony in the Marvel movies, it's one of the main reasons why me personally, I cannot take the MCU very seriously. And yes, I didn't really much like the first three phases and thought they were flawed. I cannot relate to Robert Downey Jr Ironman, The Avengers, The Guardians of The Galaxy, because every emotional moment we got in any of those movies was always constantly thrown with jokes that felt out of touch and took me out of the immersion. I feel especially this way for Ant-Man when he was being a dick to the Wasp for losing her mother. I was like, "what the actual F*** is wrong with you Paul Rudd!? Don't you have any ounce of human decency!?" I cannot relate to the MCU or DCEU in the same way I can relate to 2000s superhero movies. There's a certain charm that Tobey Maguire Spider-Man and Christian Bale Batman have that I don't see today in superhero movies anymore. That's believablity and relatability. Something that the MCU in my opinion lacks. As a preteen who didn't know any better back then, I thought early KZbin and meme videos were fun and perhaps an alternative to cable television. But looking back now, with how quickly people took advantage of it and used this platform to do some very messed up shit like Chris Chan or Elsagate, I feel kinda ashamed now to be a zoomer. But it still wasn't all bad as I turned out okay and I wasn't in the slightest effected in anyway as I didn't spend my entire life on the internet. The same can't be said for Gen alpha however.

[@TheSultan1470]

...Jesus, TL;DR. All those things sucked dookey. Abd I used to watch FIM

[@atavious2491]

@@TheSultan1470 what exactly do you mean by TL;DR

[@TheSultan1470]

@@atavious2491 Too Long, Didn't Read

[@atavious2491]

@@TheSultan1470 My apologies. There was just a lot I had to say about the topic at hand because I felt there were some other factors that were going on at the time that also contributed to why people were hating on Sonic. I don't do videos so this is the only way I can express my thoughts.

[@admiralAlfonso9001]

@@atavious2491they’re a troll account they’ve commented on several other posts

[@supersonicsaga]

I'm still honestly pissed about it because we should have more new sonic characters but they kept saying that it ruined the series.

[@Davo255_]

We do get more Sonic characters, like Trip, Ariem (from Sonic Dream Team), Sage, Whisper, Tangle, Jewel, Surge, Kit, Lanolin, Dr. Starline, Belle and many more IDW characters. The core issue with 2010's/Late 2000's characters was probably due to how small spotlight they got and how bland they were (like Babylon Rouges for example) compared to more interesting characters who had more to bring to the table. I'm glad they now focuses on "balancing" characters' personalities and their writing so it won't feel like that some characters have only flaws and other are flawless

[@supersonicsaga]

@@Davo255_ I am just talking about the games mostly. I meant that back in the day, they would introduce a new character for a couple of games, and then they would make a new sonic series with a new character, rinse and repeat. But since that was one of the critiques, they had to stop doing that.

[@Friendly_Neigborhood_Astolfo]

Well we can also blame Ken Penders for that too.

[@bowmaj8666]

I will never understand the "Sonic's stupid friends" mindset. It's like, people complain about these characters, calling them "annoying and useless", even when they're competently written and pull their weight in the story. So Sega takes note of this, and decides to not only sideline these characters, but also flanderized their personalities, to the point where they cannot do anything worthwhile in the story and potentially overshadow Sonic. So now they are basically even MORE annoying and useless than they were in the first place, and people act like this is an improvement?

[@shawerful5209]

Yeah why mario can have more playable characters than sonic? And most of mario characters plays the same atleast the sonic ones have different abilities

[@toastedsquare]

While this era was awful, there were many gems that I adored growing up. The Sonic fans that didn't give in to the hate for the series were making genuinely good content that is so nice to go back to

[@benmalsky9834]

Exactly

[@sparklesparkle3370]

Amazing video on how 2010s cringe culture kinda ruined how we enjoy things Kinda reminded me of how you just couldn't talk about the comics without saying stuff like "wow these books are so wacky and ridiculous lol! Have you heard of ken penders ☝️🤓" especially when there's characters and stories that have touched my life it kinda stings

[@Cubeytheawesome]

I will never forgive anyone who hated on the show Uncle Grandpa. He was really funny and was cool asf and people hated him. And for what?

[@InkyBlitz]

@@Cubeytheawesome It was atrocious. Poorly animated, poor humor, and bad writing.

[@christiancinnabars1402]

"Cringe culture" is still ongoing, and will continue to live on as long kids that newly come onto the internet are influenced by content creators that go "Oh, you like _that_ type of game? You want to talk about this _fictional thing_ this deeply? Lmao, so cringy!" And when a bunch of kids (who, let's face it, vastly outnumber the amount of adults on the internet at this point in time) think something, it gets passed onto the "adults" (older teenagers and actual adults) that want to bandwagon/trend surf, and when it gets passed onto those adults, those adults make content that pass on the mindset to kids. It's a vicious cycle of not letting anyone enjoy anything unless it is popular to enjoy it. And don't get me started on the cycle of hating something that gets _too_ popular...

[@zhitchcresttail3387]

Incorrect ​@@InkyBlitz

[@sparklesparkle3370]

@@InkyBlitz stop the cap

[@ChaseKip]

I loved Sonic 06 as a kid and didn't even notice that it was a glitchy mess. Idk if thats a sign that you can enjoy games when you don''t have the internet telling you its bad or that when you're a kid all you care about is that the cutscenes look good and the music is sick

[@sonicturbogoku3978]

Same, when I first played 06, I actually enjoyed it. I loved the character models, story, and music. I wasn’t on the internet that much so I had no idea people hated it so much.

[@DADA-yt1pt]

Honestly, I always hate it when people say stuff like "It's okay to like garbage" or "It's okay to be wrong". Like, they're trying to hide the fact that they have a problem with other people's opinions and preferences. I get being frustrated with a product and wanting better, but why should they feel the need to attack others just for liking something they don't? Especially if they're willing to be critical themselves and acknowledge problems they may have. Admittedly, at times, it makes me hesitant to say that I'm a Sonic Origins enjoyer. (Despite me being frustrated with how SEGA handled it, I still enjoy playing it.) And I've seen this happen with games like 06 and SA2 as well.

[@JoSephGD]

This era has permanently tainted Sonic as a series. Whenever a new game comes out, it always has detractors mentioning how "Sonic had a rough jump to 3D", when in fact Sonic's jump to 3D was perfectly fine, even well regarded at the time. It wasn't a Mario 64 or OoT, but outside of its presentation in cutscenes, the game was praised as a leap forward in cutting-edge video games.

[@staringcorgi6475]

I disliked sonic’s jump to 3d because it was very different to the 2d games but it was granted since it’s easier to translate the ideas of mario and zelda to 3d like for example a new axis will help the zelda formula tremendously since there’s more potential for dungeons

[@jskywalker58]

i prefer sonic adventure over mario 64

[@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778]

Yeah now shadow has to act like an edge lord and team dark can’t be a thing because of that era

[@KingdomHeartsBrawler]

"It wasn't a Mario 64 or OoT" No, it was better. I was there in the late '90s. I saw how absolutely EVERYONE was floored by how good and amazing SA1 looked compared to those games. It was truly revolutionary. Honestly, I think both the Adventure games have aged better than Mario 64.

[@yasmineh.1333]

​@@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778Team Dark has been explicitly acknowledged as A Thing in the comics & Team Sonic Racing. We're past that.

[@AnglesSol]

One thing I remember well was a comment from Cobi (Sonic youtuber from 2010’s) “People don’t have their own opinion ane hate it because it’s popular”. It’s not wrong to dislike something, but don’t dislike it because someone else does.

[@collaterale1]

Man, its heartbreaking on what Cobi has become today

[@AnglesSol]

@@collaterale1 yeah…

[@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist]

Oh dear god. I just checked his channel and it looks so off. Seriously. Man was a real legend and a part of my childhood.

[@crestofhonor2349]

Cobanermani was one of my go to sonic youtubers to watch of that era. His family and the death of Etika hit him way too hard

[@Pepperknight341]

@@crestofhonor2349 F to Etika. He never got to see Sora in Smash.

[@Chucklestheechidna128]

Never hated Sonic, never will.

[@MichealGreem]

W comment

[@MESHALGAMEZ]

Me Too bro I used to like sonic since I was 3 years old and I still like the series I Used to play All The Mobile Games Like Sonic And Sega All Stars Racing,Sonic Jump,Sonic And All Stars Racing Transformed,Sonic 4 Episode 1 And 2 And I Played All The Genesis Trilogy and Mean Bean Machine And 3D Blast And All The PS4 Games And Now I’m Playing The Story Book Games And The Xbox 360 Games

[@AvieweronYT]

I also like sonic and never stop​@@MESHALGAMEZ

[@lynxfresh5214]

Same, in some ways Sonic is too good for certain parts of the gaming community.

[@abe2826]

Same, and I've endured the bullying at school for the status of being a Sonic fan, and I hope those assholes learned their lesson.

[@KaioKenneth4]

The problem was (and still is) that people take KZbinrs opinions and criticisms at face value without ever having experienced the subject matter themselves. KZbinrs called Somic lame and their viewers who never played Sonic automatically agreed with them because they didn’t have anything to debunk those criticisms. After that, it became a snowball effect. The more people trashing Sonic, the more people that would see that and join them. As human beings, we are graced with the ability to think for ourselves. It’s a shame that many people don’t use it.

[@colorstar7772]

Moral of the story, 2010s humor and influencers don't mix too well.

[@leon4000]

We've always had this issue even before Sonic came around. There will be some human beings who will find something to complain about because they're not mature enough to think outside of their own 'boxes". You could even take a look at real life to see how badly humans have been acting lately. Not much empathy and more and there's always a lot of judging and lambast.

[@zeroxenoverse9251]

This. Right here feels like I'm losing my faith in humanity cause holy crap this world rewards it's idiots.

[@theboihilbirt1277]

Its okay, you can blame IGN and Arin Hanson. You can said like eveyone does.

[@hollow_w33n]

and to a smaller extent: chris chan

[@GaetorCreation]

@@hollow_w33n CC can honestly not be blamed because they were basically ganged stalked until a mental breakdown, if i can say personally the 2010´s hatred of sonic was a little the reason for the gang stalking to begin with

[@FatTundra64]

@@GaetorCreationyeah Does her actions that she did make her a better person *take a fucking guess* But it wasn’t entirely her fault for her down fall, sometimes trolls suck like that . (I don’t know everything about CC nor do I fully want to know, I’ve just heard bits and pieces about them)

[@hollow_w33n]

@@GaetorCreation true, but as part of the hate for sonic in the 2010, people like him and sammyclassic (or whatever his name was) contributed to the negative stereotype of sonic fans

[@beardalaxy]

@@FatTundra64 just a super autist that other autists decided to pick on forever, but use the fact that they have given him money to say they did nothing wrong

[@Kev-D-OG]

The section where you discussed "Irony Poisoning" was really interesting. Never heard of this term before but it honestly feels very accurate to how people viewed media in general from that time.

[@retrobrian1]

This man talking bout the Sonic Civil Rights era.

[@FectoElfilin]

I don't want to sound like a troll, but I don't think it's a good idea to compare segregation to *furries getting (arguably rightfully) made fun of because they like kusoge platformers.* This kind of relates to a point I wanted to make about being bullied for being a Sonic fan: Nobody really needs to know that. If you like it, then that's fine, but you don't need to act like you're in an MLM and shill it to everyone.

[@JoeContext]

​@@FectoElfilin How do you reply to a comment that has the phrase "Sonic Civil Rights era" and manage to sound crazier

[@beardalaxy]

insane but hilarious comparison lol

[@galaxyfam6471]

@@FectoElfilinI don’t want to sound like a troll, but I completely agree. Retrobrian1 should work towards reeducating himself to cease his racist tendencies. I’m so disgusted by his comment, I threw up all over my sonic sheets.

[@FectoElfilin]

@@JoeContext ...Fair enough. :V

[@UnifiedEntity]

This the same Era of people that couldn't fucking understand the INTENTIONALLY awkward laugh scene in FFX

[@hugoflores1093]

Arin, IGN, SailorJared, Jimmy Whetzel, Dunkey, Defender of The Completionist PBG and Tryhard AVGN Wannabes Hope you felt good back then Hating Fun is really a marvelous task to pull of

[@anthonystrangio]

PBG is actually pretty chill tho, and impressively one of the only content creators from that era who hasn’t had a major controversy (yet), so props to him

[@ExtremeWreck]

ProJared doesn't deserve to be called "Sailor Jared" & for that you have offended Sailor Moon & therefore in the name of the moon, she'll punish you!

[@whoasked9500]

@@anthonystrangio fr I don't think PBG actively hated on Sonic games I just remember him saying it just wasn't his thing growing up

[@ericbaker8781]

The people you should actually be mad at is Sega for constantly releasing half baked crap. This is what’s wrong with Sonic fans. You guys never grew up

[@Helperbot-2000]

@@ExtremeWreck i have no idea what that means but it sounds very ominous so even tho he said it, im gonna apologize for it 0_o

[@JustMaxT]

People need to learn that Sonic was ALWAYS cool.

[@Cubeytheawesome]

Then why was forces so ass? Why aren’t tangle, whisper, and surge in the games yet?? Why did one of their best games in years have to be on Apple Arcade, a service only 5 people use? And why is the fanbase so damn toxic? I’ve seen bad fanbases, but the Sonic fandom is even worse!

[@EWOODJ]

_”Why aren’t tangle, whisper, and surge in the games yet??”_ Bring it down a notch.

[@chrispeart1394]

I like sonic but always is a BIG stretch

[@Cubeytheawesome]

@@EWOODJ I’m sorry, I was upset at the moment. I just really love them, and I heard IDW isn’t doing so well lately, and I don’t want the new characters to suffer the same fate as Sally and the Freedom Fighters.

[@icemagefullbusta]

At least we got through it together, crossing my fingers that we're riding the incline now. High hopes for Shadow Generations and whatever comes next!!

[@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist]

Agreed. But am I the only worried one? I haven't seen a single spoiler except for the first trailer and even though it looks so incredible, I'm still worried on what the entire community will think of it.

[@Albortomagico]

As someone who's in a friend group where people constantly go "ain't reading allat" or "didn't ask" to then feel like they're the kings and queens of the gosh darn planet for their incredible nuance and genius ...man this hits

[@admiralAlfonso9001]

Yeah

[@Flinch9000]

That must be hell to go through. As a person from ‘04, I send my sympathies and condolences.

[@klg9549]

People who invalidate your feelings at every turn aren't friends.

[@Masonia_]

I think you need new friends man

[@5persondude]

“Sonic had a rocky start in 3D” mfs when you tell them to have an original thought (their favorite KZbinr told them Sonic was bad)

[@KudoRedfox]

It wasn't rocky start but it sure did get rocky later on

[@thespectacularspider-man2549]

I dunno, Man. Sonic Adventure 1 is dreadful, I can't even bring myself to complete the first area. 3D Sonic is eugh.

[@JacqueBibblequip]

@@thespectacularspider-man2549 ok buddy

[@thespectacularspider-man2549]

@@JacqueBibblequip Sonic was always intended to be a 2D game and it will never work in 3D.

[@Trrvvfo]

@@thespectacularspider-man2549it dose and has worked just because you don't like it DOSENT destroy the fanbase this game has it will and has worked because it's fun for people like me

[@brendanblair64]

This kind of environment is why I was overly defensive of this series when I was a teenager. It's probably why tons of people are overly defensive of Sonic now.

[@benmalsky9834]

Indeed

[@33pandagamer]

I was a teenager back then as well. So when people would tell me over and over again that my favorite character (Shadow) was bad, I'd get very upset. At some point I had started leaving comments on any videos I found claiming that SA2 or Shadow is bad, I would say how much I like the character and SA2's story, trying desperately to get them to see it my way. It didn't help that SA2's story means so much to me and I would get so upset at any amount of criticism towards it.

[@linakorig9]

Yeah

[@Probably_JENOVA]

That’s true. I also felt overly defensive about the series in that environment as well. But now these days, Sonic fans get mocked for being overly defensive of the series. They’re viewed as being very insecure people who are in denial about the games’ and the franchise’s true quality. That if the games were actually good, then they wouldn’t be acting so overly defensive about them. As a Sonic fan, it feels like you just can’t win no matter what you do. You’re hated, viewed as a clown, and become an outcast regardless. It makes me feel so tired of everything.

[@benmalsky9834]

@@Probably_JENOVA This doesn’t just apply to Sonic, I’ve seen this behavior occur with other franchises like Star Wars, DC, Marvel and Doctor Who.

[@Shrock568]

"They said we'd break, They said we'd lose. But here we are. What else is new?"

[@XG417]

_"Even if they laugh, we'll never bite the dust"_ Having lived through this era of Sonic, *'One Way Dream'* spoke to me in such a big way. I'm really thankful that Sonic Frontiers existed and did well. Because, for the first time since I became a fan in the late 2000's, I felt like I can finally say out loud that I am a HUGE Sonic fan!

[@kenyaholloway-reliford8213]

Honestly, now, I feel like this is happening to every popular franchise now. It's incredibly annoying and alienating.

[@bluecorp8557]

It’s crazy how Sonic 2006 was the most hated Sonic game that ruined its reputation yet it’s the game that had the most ambition and potential to be the best Sonic game. Sonic P06 proves that. If only Sega could remaster this game.

[@riboiman4005]

This is a moment where a small portion of a fanbase creates a more polished product than a multi billion dollar company Still the same game at its core though

[@TimmyTheTinman]

@@riboiman4005the Sonic fanbase is definitely not small but I get what your saying

[@mancjedi]

You made a really good point in the Sonic franchise shifting for the worse based on the 2010s discourse. Like between all the painfully mid releases to their official social media actively encouraging the deprecation of the series. Part of why I love Frontiers is that it feels deeply reflective on the decade of Sonic that came before it. Finally it felt like Sonic Team had the confidence to put out a game they really wanted to make.

[@colorstar7772]

"Sonic had a rough transition to 3D" Everyone who praised Adventure 1 and 2 when they first released: "Am I a joke to you"

[@Gozan]

I'm feeling kinda uneasy about the word "praised", but yeah, I think that Adventure games are still the best in the series. (from the 3D ones atleast)

[@zeroxenoverse9251]

Haters: Yes 🤡

[@user-wk6tp1og3l]

what about hereos

[@colorstar7772]

@@user-wk6tp1og3lHeroes is generally a very divisive game. Personally, I love it, but I know that game does have it's haters.

[@user-wk6tp1og3l]

@@colorstar7772 no youre comparing it too unleashed and colors. Sonic heroes certainly belongs with the adventure series

[@Evan.280]

I blame game grumps for the awful opinions and takes on modern Sonic. After awhile it just came off as trying to hard to trash a good game

[@Kintsugi23]

Not to sound mean towards the GG guys, but IMO Arin is just bad at playing video games, but would try to blame his poor playing on "it must be the game's fault."

[@Shin_Mothra]

​@@Kintsugi23Zelda was also not spared this treatment.

[@dancorneanu9144]

The FF x treatment.

[@Yorigami32X]

Arin hanson would be a great game reviewer with how garbage he is at games

[@juliansoria7733]

It was from that point that I stopped hearing the journalist and "proffesionals" and seeing how they KEEP making damage outside Sonic, I am among them that demand that they get dismissed and throwed away, they NEVER deserved to be here.

[@jerrymoore6024]

This is true I played sonic and everyone made fun of me for playing sonic games and then in 2021 they started wanting to get good at the games so they came to me for advice and I said “why would you want advice for a dead franchise” I could almost see the rage in their eyes. ‘__’

[@CynicalCharCloneproductions]

10/10 response

[@Protofall]

Well said sir!

[@ericbaker8781]

This never happened, Sonic games are literally so easy lol

[@amberalvia1101]

The franchise is almost dead, but it's good again, but I'm not a sonic fan, BTW.

[@selassieaspen9940]

You all forget we had Coban during those dark days and SGB. They showed us that no matter what people said, they still have a deep connection to Sonic.

[@FunkyDealer654]

Skadoosh!

[@Autokyasuto]

Honestly, this hurts even more looking at what happened with Cobi now…really hope he recovers.

[@cliffturboadvance2377]

Yeah, he was the light of the Sonic Franchise. If it weren't for him, I probably wouldn't stay as a fan for long, let alone be a youtuber.

[@2bdaqueen268]

Yeah he was one of the only ones keeping up morale back then, it’s just a shame that he quit KZbin and all the things that would follow after that, I hope he’s working on himself now

[@Gsa-the-HedgeGod]

Imagine trying to manipulate others to hate Sonic... That's just DUMB!

[@red5158077]

The bullying and harassment were unnecessary. As a guy with autism who loves this franchise and went through middle school and high school, full of bullying, I graduated in 2017, and even throughout those times, I questioned why bully? Why not just go on your way? Why go out of your way to single out me? I barely ever talked about my love of Sonic outside of my friends, which was very small back then.

[@lynxfresh5214]

That's a truly disgusting story, as a Sonic fan who is also under the spectrum (and has the physical scars as "punishment" for daring to enjoy Sonic in the 2010s like some kind of pariah), I sincerely wish for you to continue enjoying the Sonic franchise in peace. With all the bullying stories I've seen in this comment section, it's pretty obvious Sonic fans aren't the "mentally challenged" ones.

[@red5158077]

@lynxfresh5214 I continue to do so even as a 25 year old. People always thought it was fun to poke me for liking the franchise. One time, I was having a really bad day in high school, and across the street was the 9th grade center, which the 9th grade students came over to the high school at the end of the day, i just wanted to go home and some kids decided to mess with me and I told them not too. One told the other to mock my love of Sonic to see the reaction, and I lunged forward and grabbed him by the throat, and knocked a table on its side. I let go, and he ran to his friend, yelling, "You did not tell me he would attack me!" They both ran off afterward.

[@Mr_Mistah]

If it's any consolation, I don't know a single Sonic fan that ISN'T on the spectrum. Same applies to anime fans

[@mc.gemstone]

Same here as well going threw senior school and being open of liking stuff like that I a easy target to get bullied and I regret ever being open about it and wish I kept it all to myself.

[@Koko-pm4qq]

Hey, I just wanted to share my experience with you. I have ADHD (which was unrecognised during school and into early adulthood) and really got into Sonic around 2012, but got bullied badly for that until about 2017. I always thought it was completely unfair and ended up just becoming incredibly withdrawn and unable to share anything with anyone. Sonic become my only happiness during those times and I'm more than glad I got through all of that. Nowadays I'm glad I stuck with the franchise because the recent games and movies have reignited the love I felt when I was first a fan.

[@glowdonk]

Dunkey decided to unfortunately do a 2010's KZbin and use... The PC version of Sonic Adventure...

[@Something_Maybe]

Blame Sega for having a terrible version of the game being the most accessible

[@keiyakins]

Wow, he played the most easily accessible version? What a crime! People exaggerate how bad the port is anyway. I mean yeah it has some distinct flaws don't get me wrong, but it's far from the absolutelt unplayable mess people claim.

[@Ciguato]

dunkey isn’t a hardcore sonic fan. How is he (or any casual fan) supposed to know the STEAM version (the most accessible) is inferior?

[@DOSFrost]

@@Something_Maybe This and ONLY this. Look at the comments section and find every excuse to point the finger at someone but rarely pointed at the dudes rushing these games out under-cooked.

[@mechadeka]

He also used Game Grumps footage of Egoraptor falling off the stage to "prove" the game is bad, iirc.

[@Thebes342]

There are two Sonic “dark ages”: The mid-late 2000s for the games, and the 2010s for the fanbase… and the games (because I’d take a thousand “Unleashed” or “Black Knights” over even a single “Lost World”, “Boom”, or “Forces”)

[@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist]

Lost World and Rise of Lyric aren't that inherently bad. Forces is... polished. I'll give it that. (Though, you guys keep mentioning Rise of Lyric and forget Shattered Crystal and Fire & Ice. I thought those games were absolute bangers for the Boom franchise.) But I'll agree with Unleashed and Black Knight being amazing. (Even though I also really like 06 and Secret Rings.)

[@crestofhonor2349]

@@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist Rise of Lyric feels unfinished because it was. It was built in an engine not made for the console it released on as well as being rushed and sent onto a console it was never intended for. I always wonder what would have happened if Boom actually had released on PS4 and Xbox One like they intended to

[@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist]

@@crestofhonor2349 SEGA kinda did have them rush a bit when Big Red Button did have bigger and better plans. But at least the other two Boom games were fun. But people barely know those nowadays.

[@crestofhonor2349]

@@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist I'd consider the 3DS games to be ok. The first game is a bit of a pain to get through and Fire and Ice does fix somethings. Neither of them I'd consider to be good but around the 5/10 or 6/10. Much better than Rise of Lyric being a 2/10 and they functioned properly too

[@KOTEBANAROT]

I have no sympathy for Rise of Lyric personally. Nothing they were making even resembled Sonic and was more like them wanting to make their own game in another IP. Sure SEGA screw them over with WiiU thing but eh. It wasnt anything good to begin with. They dont even have good music lol. 3ds Boom games were extremely boring too. Good riddance to this spinoff forever and ever amen

[@ToadySP]

I agree that a lot of Sonic games are underrated but this is a pretty bad misdiagnosis of the culture online at the time. One thing I don't think Chaomix really considered was that much of the early 2010s reviewers were looking at sonic through the lens of people who grew up playing games in the 90s during the infamous Nintendo vs Sega console war, and if there's anything that almost has been scientifically proven to ruin the discourse in online gaming discussion, it's a console war. *That* and that alone I would say is the true source of Sonic's reputation on KZbin and outside of KZbin. Because it's not even so much that Sonic was attacked solely for Sonic 06 being bad, Sonic's own fandom is split over whether or not the series ever should have gone 3D at all. It's not like there isn't already some level of division and heavy opinions within the fandom. So if you take that, and apply also the external criticism of people who were not necessarily fond of the cheesy mascot of "The enemy" of Sega during the 90s, and you have a recipe for a long lasting aspect of controversy surrounding one of gaming's most recognizable characters. This extends even to the realm of Sonic's non gaming appearances such as his animation appearances: The Adventures of, Sonic SATM, Sonic Underground, and Sonic X all of course being popular topics as well. And it's important to recognize that it was never just a one sided hating of Sonic on behalf of letsplayers and reviewers. I think a famous example that one could site is the argument between JonTron and Arin Hanson during GameGrumps Sonic 06 when the two were debating whether or not Sonic Adventure was a bad game. While Arin argued that Adventure was just as bad as 06, JonTron remained adamant that Sonic Adventure, while certainly buggy and jank at times, still was a very enjoyable "classic" game. And I think a major contribution to that argument was that JonTron was a much younger person than Arin Hanson, by quite a few years: JonTron was more of a late 90s gamer while Arin was very much a late 80s early 90s gamer. So JonTron of course had choice words for games like Sonic R, but had a great amount of respect for the Adventure series and classic Sonic games. Arin on the other hand has always seemed to have a mysterious predisposition against Sonic as a franchise: a careful observer might note that while Arin has always claimed to hate Sonic, he has curiously always been extremely knowledgeable about the franchise: referencing even the more obscure appearances that Sonic has had. The average person might not be able to name the voice actor who voiced Sonic in The Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog, but even in 2012 Arin could immediately tell you that it was Jaleel White. I think this lends credence to the theory that Arin, along with quite a few other content creators, were purposefully looking for reasons to hate Sonic, and this likely was a result of the intense console war in the early to mid 90s. Another prominent voice who looked at Sonic in a positive light was Jirard The Completionist, who had high praises for both Sonic The Hedgehog 3 and Sonic Adventures 1 and 2. And I think it's important to note that Jirard, like JonTron, was a much younger member of the Normalboots/Hiddenblock community. He grew up playing a game like Sonic 3 and Sonic Adventure. He didn't grow up with the weirdness of the 90s console wars, and you notice far more genuine gaming opinions from him as a result. ProJared is a bit of an oddity. ProJared was never the type to really cash in on a trend, or provide disingenuous opinions on games. So while I never agreed with his take on Sonic Adventure 2, there are many reasons to give him the benefit of the doubt. ProJared is a bit of a wild card compared to other reviewers at the time, there are things that bother ProJared that won't bother many other reviewers. Up until recently, when he's been taking sponsorships from games, I don't agree with the take that he was just looking for reasons. I associate that more with ProJared having a bizarre relationship with older games and nostalgia, he's one of those guys who really thinks that progression in game design is something that declines rapidly as you go further back in time, and goes further up with ever year. It's why he could rate something like Breath of The Wild as "Absolutely worth every bit of hype that it gets" and a "perfect 10" upon release, but be far more critical towards older games that were revolutionary at the time but don't necessarily "hold up" in his eyes. This is a take that has become mostly commonplace in online gaming discussion, and it's very tiresome. I'm hoping people will start to realize the problem with that mindset. I think I'll split this into two comments, but generally a TLDR for this first point is essentially just that there was far more than just "people hated sonic to get clicks" "Sonic 06 sparked all of this". This was more the result of a long time rivalry that has existed since the 90s console wars, and in some people hasn't really died down.

[@ToadySP]

Just one small final note on this topic: having a negative opinion about a Sonic game or Sonic as an IP is not the same as operating in "Bad Faith". I don't deny that a lot of people who hate on Sonic (such as Arin Hanson who I mentioned above) likely had some ulterior motives likely relating to growing up in the 90s console war and being affected by it? But just acting like this entire era of criticism was done out of clickbait, trend chasing, and monetization, is just silly (though all of those reasons also certainly motivated Arin specifically). It's also really important to understand that back in the early 2010s, trendchasing was NOT on the same level as it is today online. Most creators on KZbin would make videos on a topic because it interested them, or they thought it would make for an interesting video. It's easy to look back and, knowing what we know about creators today, say that all of them were just chasing money. But there wasn't much money to even chase back then, and being inauthentic was not nearly as commonplace. It's true that back then creators would be way more overthetop and exaggerated, but that was for entertainment value, that's what people found entertaining at the time. Nowadays everyone just wears a plain T-shirt, acts monotone and normal, and just gives their incredible safe and predictable opinions. You can't really judge the bombastic nature of content creators at the time the same way you would judge one now. It would be easy to cherrypick it and make it seem like it's all in "bad faith" with clever editing, but doing so would ironically be removing necessary context, and therefor would, ironically, be bad faith. And I'm sure this all *also* accounts for all the people who probably would have made fun of Sonic Fans on Reddit or on 4chan, who had no monetary reason for doing so. Surely all of those people were influenced by a KZbinr to some degree. Like idk man. This all kind of seems like a big cope in that regard. I think the big question to ask is: was it really the influencers who started the influencing, or is it not rational to also assume that the influencers were also influenced? Just something to chew on. God I miss when people were fucking real.

[@bruh-lr5sq]

Great points brother!

[@8pierrot89]

You make a lot of good points - somehow, I'm reminded of me and my boyfriend. He's a bit older than myself, and just with those years of difference, we have a lot of different opinions on things. That said, I don't think shit like console wars should affect people's biases that far into the future, when they're already done and dusted. It takes a certain level of maturity to put that shit away and look at """"the enemy's"""" games' without bias, or at the very least try to see why other people like those games and I truly expected that maturity out of Arin. I was saddened to learn I was wrong.

[@retrolovesmonika3959]

Was looking for this comment

[@Meshric]

Man screw the ProJared take, that mindset is poison. The idea that game design is this rigid concept that only ever improves is a lie, and so is the idea that games "age" and become retroactively worse. It's not like a loaf of bread, it's not gonna grow mold or anything.

[@thatoneshortsonicartist]

I remember back in middle school I was bullied relentlessly for being a sonic fan

[@Friendly_Neigborhood_Astolfo]

Same!!! I was being bullied for like sonic even before sonic 06

[@CR-Nova]

Plenty of people who were into the bigger AAA games around Xbox 360/PS3's time definitely made me see plenty of their favorites as inferior because of how they just had to elevate their own game over Sonic's at the time--even the "good" Sonic games at the time.

[@TronicSSJ07]

Well, my friend. It’s likely because they’re insecure about something.

[@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist]

I keep seeing these comments and just seriously can't help but feel horrible. I mean, I'm glad we're in the current era where we can finally say "In your face!" and all but it must've been just awful to see a plumber saving a princess getting praised and mentioned how he's superior to a supersonic blue hedgehog who saves the universe for a living. I mean, I can kind of relate but not up to that level.

[@benmalsky9834]

Thankfully, that never happened to me.

[@ControllerAkimbo]

it smells like chaomix cooked

[@Genesis-XE]

Shoutout to Balenaproductions for his “Sonic Zombie” and “Christmas with Sonic” videos which were popular during the 2010s, as well as other video creators that made hilarious YTP type of videos back then

[@EstelleZer0]

One of the few good ones who at least tried to convince a better image for the franchise if I recall.

[@jskywalker58]

what exactly is sonic zombie i know about it but haven't actually watch it

[@GAMEFAN27]

​@@jskywalker58 its a youtube comedy series about the sonic cast surviving in a gmod zombie apocalypse. The entire series doesn't even try to be close the actual games characters with things like mexican tails and cream talking with a bad Arnold Schwarzenegger voice. Also each episode has a name that is meant to parady maming trends of the time.

[@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist]

Sonic Zombie was interesting to say the least.

[@matheuspires2462]

​@@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist it was comedy gold

[@scorpioen3d427]

I remember seeing a guy who, in his other videos cleary dislike the franchise, making a review of sonic mania. But he wasn't able to say anything negative of the game so he brought up the down button, saying that it takes to much time for the camera to pan down... And he talked about it for like 1-2 minutes in his 15 minutes video. That's how desperate people where to demerit sonic

[@colorstar7772]

Some people really need to understand the difference between a flaw and a nitpick.

[@alexanderstilianov]

Showing _that_ Game Grumps Let's Play without directly mentioning them was smooth, not gonna lie.

[@heroman_567]

Facts I thought I was the only one that saw the footage 😅

[@TheLegoMaster261]

This is why you don’t listen to narumitsu shippers like them.

[@greenstarlover1]

​@@TheLegoMaster261what narumitsu has to do with it?

[@bleepblock2177]

⁠@@TheLegoMaster261this comment never mentioned narumitsu, but I will still ship narumitsu because I like gay things

[@zxylo786]

​@@bleepblock2177Enjoy aids

[@Shahars71]

I blame Game Grumps for a LOT of 2010's Sonic discord, Arin Hanson did genuine damage to the franchise imo

[@yoshimina4551]

Dorkly too tbh

[@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778]

It was all game journalists and youtube reviewers. They aren’t actually gamers. They are rage baiters. They only care about causing trouble so they can hired by an actual journalist company. They used sonic as a punching bag because they had no scoop and it was popular. Sure maybe sonic fandom or the bad ports are to blame. But the fact that they didn’t even bother to attempt to learn or understand why anyone liked sonic showed they always came into the franchise on bad faith. They were there to make a buck. It didn’t matter whose they screwed over to earn it. Even then the tables have turned. People see these journalists and youtubers as jokes now. Because they are bad faith actors looking for their next headline. They are irrelevant now. Nobody takes them seriously. They are a joke. There’s a reason those games journalist sites are shutting down now and they only have themselves to blame for throwing away any food will they used to have

[@TrueSavage555]

@@yoshimina4551 Dorkly!? Idk, they made fun of the direction of the series a couple times but that's about it.

[@jamainegardner4193]

*discourse

[@KhaledWhathappened]

Game Grumps where never good

[@radiantstarlight0428]

what especially sucks is growing up in that era. having your formative years be filled with everyone shitting on this thing you love makes it even harder to make that self consciousness go away. i still try my best to avoid answering questions like “what are you into” and im 20 years old.

[@Scalesthelizardwizard]

Nothing pisses me off more than when people hate on something cuz "It's cool to hate" and shit on anyone who likes it

[@Burn_Angel]

Mighty No.9

[@thepg24-official]

@@Scalesthelizardwizard Thank god I’m not that type of person

[@Scalesthelizardwizard]

@@thepg24-official Same I don't understand how people can live like that I also hate how when the fans snap back the ones shiting on them will play victim even if the fans are nice about it

[@ashhabimran239]

@@Scalesthelizardwizard Basically giving valid defences and perspective and being called a "butthurt fanboy". Makes you wonder who's the manchild in that situation

[@Scalesthelizardwizard]

@@ashhabimran239 Honestly when I a fandom goes through having what they love dogpiled on I don't blame them for getting defensive

[@SimplySunky]

I find it funny this video was post after Adult Swim posted their 2010s ahh tweet about 9 Levels of Hell with the Sonic Fandom being at the very bottom. Anyways, I glad that the "Sonic was never good" era has ended with the general public finding Sonic cool again.

[@Mr.Feather130]

And we can thank frontiers for it!

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

i just went to look at that tweet and wow it’s so much worse than i imagined. what out of touch intern put this shit together, who makes fun of bronies in 2024

[@selassieaspen9940]

​@@Mr.Feather130 It was actually the Sonic movie.

[@Mr.Feather130]

@@selassieaspen9940 that and frontiers ended the 2010s madness of sonic

[@benmalsky9834]

To be frank, me and my schoolmates ALWAYS found Sonic cool. We avoided most of this mess.

[@HeroofWat]

Yeah, back in the 2010s I used to be extremely self-conscious for being a Sonic fan with IRL friends. Nowadays, those feelings are mostly gone. I mostly kept my liking to the series to myself until the second movie came out. With how the franchise is now giving us the movies, Frontiers, and now Shadow Generations I am beyond proud to be a fan of this franchise.

[@EnclaveEmily]

I remember it like it was yesterday. The pain is still there even if the status has passed.

[@YgdrasilChaosControl]

I remember how bad that decade was. It was so bad that friends of mine straight up stated that my opinion on anything was invalid because I was a Sonic fan, thus, I had no taste.

[@jskywalker58]

they sound like "great friends"

[@amberalvia1101]

The decade isn't good or bad like other decades, but KZbinrs in the 2010s for sonic isn't good or bad either.

[@hardboiledegg4193]

Man this era of sonic KZbin made me so mad at these KZbinrs because I got picked on a lot as a kid due to this era

[@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist]

I'm sorry to hear that, man. I also got mad like a lot whenever people kept saying how Mario outshines Sonic and how Sonic is slower than Flash. (I suppose the second one is irrelevant though.)

[@TheMastermind729]

You can have the last laugh now because Sonic is the goat.

[@jamainegardner4193]

You shouldn't blame KZbinrs for bullies being bullies.

[@dinar8749]

@@jamainegardner4193 Those youtubers were also the bullies. They intentionally picked sonic as a target and used his bad games to justify saying "sonic was never good" like an objective fact. All the sonic fans trying to defend themselves against the bullies got them more engagement too.

[@Yuli_Ban]

Sorry to go against the consensus of the video, but I'll have to disagree with the conclusion that the overwhelming Sonic hate started in the 2010s. That was not my experience at all. I distinctly remember that, after a honeymoon period for about 6 months, the full tsunami of vitriol started in later 2007 and was actually at its most universal and most negative around Unleashed and Black Knight. It _metastasized_ in the early 2010s, but it was absolutely there before then at the same intensity. Anti-Sonic KZbin was just that vitriol being broadcast to the masses, not actually being forged

[@RockinSockems]

Yeah I remember the complaints of "sonic having a sword" and "sonic turning into a werewolf." It's interesting cause when colors and generations came out, the hate died down for a bit.

[@Kimairan]

Yeah, I remember being a little kid when Unleashed came out and reading the ungodly amount of hate the night levels got online. Was quite unfortunate for my younger self because I both had the Wii version (the "inferior and terrible" one - nah) and loved the Werehog; both the gameplay and the character itself. In fact, I remember enjoying them more than the day levels...

[@Yuli_Ban]

@@Kimairan Don't get me wrong, it was way before that. Even as far back as 2003 in my memory, there were plenty of discussions in the online space about how "Sonic's completely fallen apart," and X-Play for one was mocking Sonic since at _least_ 2005. "Everyone only hates Sonic Adventure because of Game Grumps" is possibly the most Zoomer rewriting of history I've ever seen, because the divisiveness over Adventure and Adventure 2 was there _almost since the games came out_ Heck the critics were once the biggest _defenders_ of Adventure circa 2001 or so; the fanbase was pretty much split between "Best fucking games of the generation" and "Sonic needs to quit before he crashes and burns completely," even back in the days when Fark, gaming forums, and even late-era Usenet were the big thing. This sentiment that Game Grumps and their ilk started it.... I dunno, feels exactly like that Charles Manson Family Guy gag: "If I never heard of it, it didn't exist" And considering a lot of the people saying it now were born _after_ the Adventure games or even Heroes or Shadow were released, well, it makes perfect sense how this is the case. And don't misunderstand me, I think it's bullshit too; I just disagree with who's responsible for the bullshit. In my memory, Game Grumps was just one roadbump along the way, nowhere near the origin point of it.

[@ericbaker8781]

Thank you, I thought I was going crazy watching this video

[@stardmg]

I think the 2010s boom of "rage reviewers" that were trying to be like the AVGN was a big part of it as well. Everyone wanted a game to rage about and Sonic games were an easy target. That got those vids millions of views and thus sullied Sonic's rep even further.

[@crestofhonor2349]

Funny how the only one to come out of that era still doing the rage thing was AVGN. Of course he was doing it pre youtube all the way back in 2004

[@belstar1128]

its funny when they do it with really bad ones like sonic 06 or sonic labyrinth

[@jskywalker58]

i never liked the AVGN type game reveiws i found them unfunny, annoying and hate using this word but cringe

[@CapitalTeeth]

It took me a while to realize how unhinged 2010's KZbin actually was until about a few years ago. But even before that, the amount of AVGN copycats that dunked on Sonic and nitpicking each and every flaw of the games was pretty wild. I guess this video puts my doubts on something to rest. Sonic really was just gaming's punching bag in the late 2000's and early-mid 2010's.

[@slugger-8O12Fi18Fo]

I also think the demographic that poked the most fun at Sonic - the teens making up a majority of the Let's Player's audience - is aging out of its "everything is cringe" era. When you're young you lash out at anything you think is immature because you want to seem more superior or mature. Then when you're older you realize that maturity involves accepting and being open-minded to all those things you once saw as "weird." You get new perspectives and try new things as you grow and yes, this includes video games. Coming back to Sonic now that I'm older I can definitely say I was wayyy too harsh on it and its fans as a teen. There are so many amazing games and fan projects I neglected because I thought I was above playing a Sonic game. My biggest regret was being so steeped in irony as a teen I never enjoyed anything sincerely and actively avoided getting into the "cringe" stuff.

[@Kaimerah]

Not a sonic fan but kinda weird how I can relate as a halo fan

[@evanbergman3053]

Really? Do people hate the new games so much that they retroactively go back and hate the old ones? Idk I just never hear anything bad being said about the first 3 games or that Halo has always been bad

[@Kaimerah]

@@evanbergman3053 well I don’t hate any of the halo games and the casual public tend not to hate the old games but there is a vocal group of “hardcore” fans on twitter and Reddit that do tend to go back and discredit the older games. That being said I’d have to rewatch this vid cause there was a different reason as to why I said what I said

[@1upGaming1up]

I know that Anime fans had it just as bad in the 2000s though early 2010s just like how Sonic Fans had it in the 2010s

[@zxylo786]

​@@1upGaming1upSonic fans and anime fans deserved it.

[@ashhabimran239]

@@1upGaming1up 2000-10s: *anime was seen as a weird, nerdy niche* 2020s: *anime is perfectly normal and mainstream*

[@midimaggie]

Genuinely impressed you managed to talk about this without once name dropping the Game Grumps LMAO

[@thedredayshow9246]

Not trying to be cynical, but do people still watch Game Grumps? I mean, I stopped watching after Jon left (I assume a lot of other people did, because he had the balls to challenge Arin's opinions on certain games. I.E. Arin saying Adventure 1 and 2 are like 06, and Jon telling him that they aren't.), but I checked in during the Dan era and saw it was just burp, fart, and jerking off humor, but just worse. Do people really enjoy that? (Ironic coming from me, since I'm a South Park fan. LoL)

[@Zhawn7]

@@thedredayshow9246 Sounds like DSP to me

[@thedredayshow9246]

@@Zhawn7 DSP is niche. Aside from the constant e-begging, people do find his fails genuinely funny. Arin on the other hand, has gotten frustrating. Games give you tutorials, hints, and other helpful advice in the early parts, but he continuously ignores it and throws a tantrum when he dies in a game. It has gotten extremely annoying, to be honest.

[@Zhawn7]

@@thedredayshow9246 That's kinda ironic considering that from what I gathered, it's the other way around. People find DSP annoying and crude while they find Arin, while sometimes annoying, pretty funny. Could it be nostalgia bias or something?

[@thedredayshow9246]

@@Zhawn7 Maybe. The "lovelies" are pretty unhinged when it comes to Arin. I've seen videos explaining why they stopped watching GG (with valid criticism, I might add) and the vids have been disliked to all hell.

[@MegaMaster1021]

It honestly surprises me how Archie sonic somehow still stayed under the radar during this time. Because the only time I ever saw it, the full attention was when it got canceled.

[@selassieaspen9940]

Honestly, I thought nothing was cooler, and no other fictional character was cooler than a blue Hedgehog that smashes into mechs, monsters, man, and Gods. Running through foes, piercing them, and tearing out their insides by curling and throwing his entire body at his enemies with no way to being counterattacked posing with style at the end. Such a polished character. Still stood by him. He was all I had when I was in the orphanage.

[@33pandagamer]

Sonic is cool and so is Shadow, despite what anyone says.

[@dangangalaxy9759]

That’s such a cool story, I hope life has been treating you well since then.

[@quinnbernal1398]

What a great story. I hope you're having a happy life now while still enjoying the blue blur and his franchise. 🦔💙

[@shotgun6X]

Your description of sonic is... huh.

[@myst1que_mach1ne]

Honestly couldn't have summed up what makes Sonic so appealing better. Hope you're doing well

[@rickyronny4019]

Y’all can hate this current era of Sonic as much as y’all want. But you can’t deny that we’re in a much better era now than we were back in the 2010s

[@landonhagan450]

Who hates the current Era?

[@genyakozlov1316]

​@@landonhagan450A lot of people. Not me, but I've seen a lot of it, especially on forums like Sonic Stadium and Sonic Retro

[@Cubeytheawesome]

No we aren’t. In fact, I’d say we’re in a worse spot since someone had the bright idea of digging up the grave of Sonic.exe for a cruddy Fnf mod that wasn’t even good.

[@elmemearana]

​@@Cubeytheawesome I don't think comparing something with FNF is a good example, dude lol

[@skunkface_]

I still think the fandom was WAY worse in the late 2000s. Just look at how the fans treated Jason Griffith back then

[@OathKeeperRiku07]

And he's a nice guy The Studiopolis cast still gets hate for replacing the 4kids cast.

[@crestofhonor2349]

Didn't help that some of the most prominent Sonic fans were people like Chris Chan

[@OathKeeperRiku07]

@@crestofhonor2349 we can't shake what the mother lover does that makes the Sonic community look like we all have autism and like then

[@KnucklesWTD]

A lot those people were literal children though

[@benmalsky9834]

@@OathKeeperRiku07The Studiopolis cast is the one I have the most nostalgia for.

[@jzubrodikal98]

As a Sonic fan who was very big into the franchise throughout the 2010s, I never let others ruin my love for Sonic. I remember bringing my Archie comics to school, and even my classmates loved reading them.

[@Kazuma_kiryu311]

Same (except I was bullied lol)

[@sapphanimates]

Never had to experience that era for myself, but I did have an interaction earlier this year that felt dangerously close. I was in my Spanish teacher's room after school for a club. She's friends with my mom, so it was her job to take me home after the meetings were over. So I was using dry erase markers to draw a sonic on the white board, when suddenly one of her co-workers comes in and watches me draw. "Is that a Sonic?" He asks. And of course the flood gates open, and I feel that, now that he's opened the conversation I have the ability to express my love for the series. I talk about taking part in community contests, making aus, and just how great the new games are. But then he cuts me off. Spouting all that nonsense from the 2010s like reading from a checklist of tropes. I try fighting it with the success of new games and projects, and saying how the series isn't as bad as it once was, but he didn't listen. He just wrapped up the conversation and left. Of course I'm livid, so I try expressing my feelings to my teacher as we start to leave, to which she says, "What's a Sonic?"

[@33pandagamer]

As a person who became a Sonic fan in 2017, I'm glad that you didn't have to experience all the backlash that being a Sonic fan back then entailed. Also, I feel ya, I told one of my teachers one time that Shadow was my favorite character and she was like "Which one was that one?"

[@belstar1128]

a teacher that knows what sonic is ?

[@adamfirdaus5194]

Im not really a sonic fan, i just play and enjoy the games but seeing this people that said "sonic was never a good franchise" pisses me off. Obviously you can say some sonic games are bad but to say from the start it was bad? Delusional

[@leon4000]

I enjoyed some of the sonic games after Genesis, and none of this stuff was in my ears and eyes until I checked it out. I wondered why is Sonic so special for his issues, when there have been multiple video games who had similar challenges. Even Mega Man had a rough beginning until MM2. It's like they got this idea at face value, but never truly thought for themselves.

[@JOJO-oj8gy]

Bro you're video ideas are the best among the sonic youtubers

[@opadrip]

Luigi's Mansion was trashed by the internet when it first came out. Now it has two sequels and a large fanbase.

[@gamesystemaddict3949]

I knowwwww. Ive been on here since 07 and the shiftbin opinion on that game was surprising yet very welcome. Pikmin gets a lot more love now too

[@GGs24-0]

Probably because its 4 hours of content with nothing else to do when you’re done but play older consoles and games because it was the gamecubes launch game

[@MellowedGrooves]

Im surprised not one reference to Game Grumps. I feel they had the most hate for Sonic and the biggest platform, getting so big they even did collabs with Sega themselves. Yet the entire time they blindly hate the games because they couldn't play it. Okay I shouldn't use they, it was entirely Arin playing, he can't seem to read tutorials or understand context clues to figure out how to progress in shit.

[@lynxfresh5214]

Tbh do you really think folks like Arin would take responsibility for encouraging and influencing haters/trolls to bully, harass and torment kids for actually liking Sonic games? Ofc not. That said something has to be said about the "fans" that were quick to drop and trash the Sonic franchise just because it was the "cool" thing to do back then thanks to cynical vids and self-deprecating memes on the internet, I guess their Sonic OCs would be sheep?

[@Flinch9000]

Just like DSP

[@landonhagan450]

@@lynxfresh5214 "I guess their Sonic OCs would be sheep?". A comment about Sonic OCs has no business being this clever.

[@JeremyBX]

Well there is 7:37 and 9:10, visually

[@thelastwindwaker7948]

It gets so exhausting seeing any slight fault in a Sonic game overblown and called the next coming of 06. I've even seen Game Grumps fans unironically say that Sonic Adventure is buggier than SKYRIM. Now that's disingenuous.

[@linakorig9]

You my man literally just said the same thing I've been telling my friends for years as to why I get pissed everytime I see Sonic being badmouthed for being Sonic

[@Medachod]

Well, I would at least argue Skyrim has a few more things going for it, but it feels weird to compare games of vastly different genres to begin with. That's like another guy arguing why a visual novel is better than an FPS game.

[@Mitchisable]

Game Grumps fans are just fat and parasocial chodes who think shitting on anything Arin hates will make him become their one and only friend.

[@lolrus5555]

100% fuck Game Grumps and Arin and his dogshit takes in _particular_ for perpetuating the shit reputation Sonic had in the 2010s. And he had the fucking *gall* to act indignant when Sega got sick of his shit and replaced him as Sonic ambassador for Korone. Obnoxious dipshit -_-

[@ericbaker8781]

Sonic Adventure dx is only a few hours long so every glitch someone gets is going to stick out more than a 200 hour Skyrim play through. You’re both being disingenuous, Sonic Adventure is a glitchy mess, as is Skyrim.

[@selassieaspen9940]

What prevented Sonic from dying before 2010 were things like Cobanermani456, SGB, Sonic NAZO, Sonic Unleashed, FFSX6 series, SSBB, Sa3 hopes, Sonic SAT AM, Sonic RPG series. Oh and Mario and Sonic at the Olympic games.

[@Galeforce017]

I cannot get over it after seeing you put to words how things feel while seeing it on the screen. If you don't think the fantasy isekai story replacing the usual Super Saiyan transformation with a golden suit of armour while having Caliburn transform into Excalibur isn't LITERALLY THE COOLEST THING EVER, I think the poisoning has reached critical mass.

[@lpfan4491]

The rule of cool cannot save BK's story that crumbles when I look at it funny.

[@Galeforce017]

@@lpfan4491 Sounds like you have trouble seeing the GOAT when you look at it, friend.

[@artey6671]

I didn't get to that part because I don't like the video. That cutscene may have given me the most goosebumps out of anything ever. Black Knight is one of my favourite Sonic games, but sadly I think it is underrated.

[@WaterKirby1994]

For the 2010s I considered Black Knight to have the final epic Sonic Story & I regretted how the series changed after that. I wish we got more of the Storybook Games rather than the 2010s Direction. Also nice choice with Land of the Lustrous.

[@patrickquinones2533]

Remember most people just said the game is bad for laughs, but i feel what made the sterotype of sonic enjoyers having no mentality was kinda Chris Chan and a couple other people

[@jskywalker58]

your genuinely stupid if you actually think the behavior of a few people represent an entire fandom

[@benmalsky9834]

Funny, I was at a Q&A with Roger Craig Smith today at a convention in Boston, and someone brought up Chris Chan. He didn’t seem too happy about it.

[@patrickquinones2533]

@@benmalsky9834 huh I remember a video about Chris going to a TooManyGames event and when to Mike polic Q&a and Insulted Him/"eggman" and Mike/"eggmans" quoted shackspere and everyone cheered for him

[@FrankieTheEccentric]

I loved the late 2000s - early 2010s era of Sonic (definitely not biased or anything cuz that's the time I grew up with 🤓) mainly cuz of the AMVs, cobanermani456, and Sonic animations during that time (Sonic Paradox, Balena Productions, and Sonic Nazo my beloved) 😭💖 (I also hadn't joined the Sonic fandom yet so that was a blessing lol)

[@instinctive3066]

Yeah it helped that during that period Sonic games were good during that period, Lost World was sort of a turning point for Sonic on KZbin but didn’t have people turn on the franchise immediately since it was a one off

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

have you seen super mario bros z?

[@FrankieTheEccentric]

@@yourehereforthatarentyou Yeah but the creator is a crazy ass bigot so LMFAOOOO 💀💀💀

[@FunkyDealer654]

Quick Story: I became somewhat of a fan when Sonic Colours came out in 2010 at a young age. My exposure to it was because most of the peers in my class genuinely hyped it up by showing me the commercials on KZbin. Then when we started our first year of Elementary School, Sonic Generations came out, and someone (I forgot who) managed to get the collectors edition for PS3. He was so excited to the point he did a Show and Tell of it. He presented to the whole class like if it was an Unboxing Video, and explained everything he knew about the game and why he loved it. Me and the class thought it was the coolest thing in history. Whoever this guy was, he was responsible for making me a big sonic fan. And very glad I still am… …unfortunately…. I moved to a different school in 2012. And since the people I knew back in 2010-2011 enjoyed sonic, I assumed that I can easily make new friends…Turns out everyone I met in that new school REALLY hated sonic. I didn’t know why at the time, but if someone knew I was a sonic fan within 2012-2016, I would get bullied for it and constantly get compared to Sammyclassicsonicfan. Thanks for making this video, Chaomix. It has brought me memories and some reassurance on my childhood 👍

[@33pandagamer]

You were in elementary school when Generations came out? Man I feel old.

[@Mike-di3mo]

​@@33pandagamer I was like 6 months old lol

[@33pandagamer]

@@Mike-di3mo , I feel like a fossil

[@BioAlpha5]

i was born when sonic 2 came out. now i feel old too at least sonic is thriving once again and theres new fans embracing the series. you love to see it

[@nikkzio984]

@@Mike-di3mo I wasn't even born untill like 3 months later... 😭

[@DaCentralGaming]

It was strange because it seemed like every kid my age loved sonic while our older siblings/cousins thought it was weird