Sympathy For The Joker | Chapo Trap House | Episode 356 FULL

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The Chapo Group has assembled a roundtable of experts to answer the simple, yet essential question of our day: is there a Joker crisis in America? Featuring Jacobin's Jen Pan, Cum Town's Nick and Adam, and of course, a remote piece from our international film critic, Matt V. Brady.
Art/Animation by Emily Halaka @emilyhalaka
#chapotraphouse #chapo

[@BelieMyBurial]

i'm glad Nick is there to occasionally chuck a low-brow joke in the room like a flashbang, for all of us dumb boys.

[@philippedefague3835]

marxian analysis isn't high brow and yes, you cannot spell analysis without anal.

[@kitpalmer1583]

*I'm an indian guy baby, yeah*

[@QEsposito510]

His comments were some of the smartest additions to the episode, they saved us from a lot of righteous introspective over-analysis.

[@MitchMcCall-bd4ul]

Nick's unironically playing a part, high brow over analysis is Chapo wheelhouse, thank god Nick is there.

[@Thoggnee]

Nick sounds like the bad kid who started participating in class discussion at the end of the semester in a last ditch effort to pass the course

[@Drivesfastlikescats]

Lmao

[@topleybird2443]

Nick’s bodybuilder Bane joke is so good I keep coming back to this episode every year.

[@NameAvailable]

“Adam can introduce both of us.” Why is Nick like this? 😂

[@janissary101]

Christman owned this one.

[@TeknoSquirrel]

31:10

[@berdyderg900]

He always does, some just fail to appreciate our large, tracksuited boy

[@TheFlash-rh2el]

I’m a bit late but... not really. It’s not adult to have a film that explores the mighty grey scale of evil-good, and, on top of that, every film is a vehicle through which the writer can put their wants, needs and concerns. If Hollywood liberals want Trump and the brand of politics they all seem to associate with him gone, then the only way they can do that is through their art.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@TheFlash-rh2el Wdym?

[@TheFlash-rh2el]

@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 As in Hollywood liberals were communicating their political fears through their art a lot more willingly because they feared and hated the president so much.

[@Samuel_Freakin_Adams]

I really like this image. Whoever made it put a lot of care into it.

[@bombaclot98]

Our large son Matt is just trying to express his feelings, stop bullying and interrupting him please. #ProtectMatt

[@cfytcf]

#NuzzleTheBigMan

[@madisonwarren9648]

Protect our large boys

[@sickjuicysjamshack3580]

It honestly was kind of annoying how much Amber shushed him even though she talked more than he did

[@hannibalb8276]

@@sickjuicysjamshack3580 she's gone now though so

[@sketchyforlife]

While Matt most definitely popped off this ep, the highlight was definitely “I’m Indian, yeah baybay”

[@NuttGreez]

Neo-Lib: Uhhhmm, the plural of mouse is mice Mr. Biederman. Felix: Mmkay, more mices.

[@alecjones4676]

I always love Cum Town/Chapo crossovers, it's like an Avengers movie

[@groundbreaktv6935]

Except good.

[@2FadeMusic]

@@groundbreaktv6935 yea anyone who cares about those movies beyond getting zonked and enjoying the sfx is kind of a weirdo

[@MrKYT-gb8gs]

It's like the dang adventurers

[@hannibalb8276]

C boys assemble!

[@deathmagneto-soy]

@@groundbreaktv6935 - Gayest gay ever.

[@HaplessHypnagogic]

Mullen : " Do I make you randy baby? I'm from India." *laughing hysterically at his own joke* Jacobin chick: "......Ok so on the subject of Ken Loach..." That shit made me laugh so hard I thought I was gonna faint.

[@drshitnuts143]

Pravda time stamp?

[@HaplessHypnagogic]

@@drshitnuts143 57:16

[@callum6224]

I like how you can hear him laughing thinking of his own joke that he says a minute later

[@ART1E057]

i'm an indian guy baby! yeah!

[@Sh1n0x301]

_- Felix Beiderman, 2019_

[@jemimallah2591]

the girl from jacobin trying to instantly come off of that with "so this thing about ken loach" was one of the funniest chapo moments ever

[@GayTier1Operator]

Victor wasn’t it nick?

[@JStack]

“The two things that stop you from killing your self are novelty and meaning”

[@josecadena8577]

I knew there was a reason I got into this show... seriously, the class warfare, the denial of medical treatment, it was all plane as day.

[@artificialavocado9652]

Plain

[@alecjones4676]

@@artificialavocado9652 9/11, plane as day

[@benlikebike]

@@alecjones4676 9/11 : Plane ass day

[@keishpie1]

The joke about the son dying is funny because the entire joke is just pain, which is the essence of comedy. He boils down the whole idea of comedy to it's most basic form. In a way, it's funny because it's not funny

[@alexbaker9578]

Yeah it is so blunt and brutal that it is sort of funny. Gallows humor

[@radricdavis8508]

@@alexbaker9578 it’s funny bc the son represents Bryce Wayne (Batman) and it’s foreshadowing bc in the October 1974 comic Batman The Final Standoff, Bruce wrecks the batmobile and kills an innocent child. However it turns out that Dr Freeze had actually loosened up the nuts on one of the tires so it wasn’t his fault he wrecked

[@samsca8529]

Nick and Matt worked well together in this one

[@jemimallah2591]

the episode of grubstakers which they were on (its not a very good podcast but the episode theyre on is pretty much just them) is incredible

[@mattvt00]

The Florida Project was easily one of the best films of the decade. There is no more humanist director than Sean Baker.

[@SRFMF]

Obama was the best Joker

[@SRFMF]

thanks Obama

[@jolalxndr]

Matt is the MVP of this one

[@dierdoge591]

Love Mad Matts SCP style rundown in the beginning

[@hugozaanen7587]

The scene with bruce wayne getting forced to smile, reminded me of the scene in the house that jack built, of the dead boy getting a facelift by the protagonist to smile.

[@user-uq8wo5yh6x]

Hugo Zaanen that’s one of the shittiest movies i’ve ever seen

[@bluestiffy1]

​@@user-uq8wo5yh6xit's kino

[@gaiusleviathan8110]

Christman went off but only because he knew how right he was

[@kevincullen6627]

God this is one of their best episodes

[@theongreyjoy1947]

Amber stop bulling Matt just because he looked like prettier girl at 21 than you

[@alexjohnson9798]

Is there literally any media Felix enjoys besides Fortnite and UFC?

[@jemimallah2591]

halo, les miserables, the replacements, and sleigh bells are other media hes on record as enjoying

[@alexjohnson9798]

@@jemimallah2591 felix has read Gaddis?? damn he's based

[@JDesch]

The Sopranos and nothing else

[@GrimReader]

His Fortnite posturing is proof he’s in his 40s and is fake gamer girl. Anyone in the 23-36 bracket aren’t playing Fortnite

[@nyurieisbal1389]

Amber contradicts herself every other episode. She won’t allow herself to be criticized on anything & her response is just raising her voice. Matt was amazing; he nailed it.

[@nickkopriva2323]

I'm usually a big Amber defender but my god she was annoying on this one.

[@evanphillips163]

amber is cool af she’s being passionate i think

[@romanmanner]

Well, she does get talked over a lot.

[@maxwellbrown4049]

That was one zinger of a Lavrentiy Beria reference like 53 minutes in woof

[@WanderingIdiot81]

I was one of these incel white men that these Chapos are talking about; I was isolated and mentally/emotionally distressed for years, ceaselessly. "All I have are negative thoughts" was a line that really took me back to those days. Nevertheless, I was horrified when Trump won, and I was angry at the dems for cheating and failing. So I started to watch progressive media, volunteer for Justice Democrats, and read books about class, propaganda and history. Now I'm a staunch anti-capitalist who FUCKS, and whenever I see stories about Bernie or The Squad I feel like I'm a part of something wonderful. So I just want to say thank you to The Left :)

[@kpimkpim349]

"who FUCKS" *gives high five*

[@yungsouichi2317]

And then the buttcheeks clapped

[@TheJonnyEnglish]

Ladies love Lefties

[@Graeberwave]

Wow, that is powerful. Props.

[@Confucius_76]

so basically if you get woke then you get laid? i don't think i can get woke, i'm too far gone. the left just annoys me these days. what books did you read?

[@hyperionman420]

This is my infinity war. Nick's Love Guru joke is my thanos snap.

[@coreygolphenee9633]

Its just nice to see a comic book movie that isn't storyboarded by the 2000s remake of comic book storyline from the 80s

[@PeterMcLoughlinStargazer1877]

An anecdote, in the 1970s as a kid I thought bedbugs were an old timey thing that didn't happen anymore after 2000 I discovered they were a thing again.

[@averagejoe455]

Comic books have been political since their inception. I don't get why they keep bashing on comics like they shouldn't be political.

[@TheJonnyEnglish]

Captain America was literally propoganda

[@anarchisttechsupport6644]

Remember that Marvel Civil War? Omfg the entire Marvel Universe got pulled into a months-long RAGE against the Patriot Act, and its assault against Freedom.

[@NuttGreez]

Their complaint is from the fact that the genre constrains the impact and abillity to create a relatable political narrarative. Not a dig on comics for what they are. IMO political themes are hard to blend into any genre aside from Military Action flicks and Documentaries.

[@Dante45p]

its because they don't like that now women and gays are making comics like they like xmen for being the white guy verison of MLK views not when some comes and makes it more openlly about civil rights

[@gladeskier95]

@@Dante45p Lol no one in chapo has ever cared about "women and gays making comics." They just hate modern geek culture

[@noahg2755]

I wasn't that into Joker but Mathew Brady's take is incredible. "Future generations, if there are any, deserve to know what happened in the before time."

[@PeterMcLoughlinStargazer1877]

Y'all are the first people I heard talking about this movie now I want to see it.

[@beveltgr9705]

Even on a guest appearance Adam interrupts Nick

[@dirkmaes3786]

I thought the "joker song" was Doctoring the Tardis by the KLF...

[@DaveFromVh1]

Great ep

[@scottdurbin9841]

Probably my favorite Chapo ep

[@61butthatsaveragehere87]

Amber thinks taxi driver is highly reactionary and death wish is high art?

[@pugsyconglomerate]

Can you imagine if Death Wish starred a black dude instead

[@janosmarothy5409]

@@benjaming4659 theyre both reactionary. but taxi driver was actually good while death wish was tedious unfun trash

[@leonardorossi998]

Well, to be fair, Death Wish 3 is high art :P

[@brippie]

@@leonardorossi998 Yeah, like that scene where he mail-ordered a gun.

[@leonardorossi998]

@@brippie What an absolute masterpiece :P

[@SickBuckNaStY]

Attention: I Have a Seriously Tramatic Brain Injury That Causes Me To Laugh Hystericly At All Chapo Trap House Video's!

[@enjoi0555]

I went on a second date to this movie lmao. Luckily we both loved it and vibed well when it came to tastes and interests.

[@TheJonnyEnglish]

Nick and Adam made this 100% better

[@imavileone7360]

Get them both on Cum Town

[@imavileone7360]

@Dr. Richard F-N ayyy I love your channel content!

[@Confucius_76]

by just derailing it and making fun of any serious point the others made?

[@imavileone7360]

@@Confucius_76 aww the degenerate is here everyone

[@TheJonnyEnglish]

@@Confucius_76 actually, yes, that's exactly why

[@gorillaguerillaDK]

The thought I had when I left the theater was smash fascism, eat the rich.... It was a f*ck!ng brilliant movie! I wasn't that sure if he actually ended up killing his neighbour or not, but if he did, then it had nothing to do with toxic masculinity - it was however a great movie about mental disintegration in a world where society is failing the poor.... Also, I was the only one giggling over the "my mom just died, I'm celebrating" scene....

[@WanderingIdiot81]

I did! And I laughed when he shot Deniro a second time and then awkwardly put the pistol on his desk XD

[@gorillaguerillaDK]

OMFG, me too, so much that the couple next to us, two lesbians in their 50's or so, gave me that weird uneasy stare...

[@Alex.R.L]

I'm from the future. 2020 happened, covid 45 got us to the #1 at covid deaths, we don't talk about The Joker movie very often.

[@JohnMoseley]

What a shame when you talked to Zizek about this, one of you didn't say, 'That's a great critique of the movie you imagine this to be. The actual movie is rather different and relates interestingly to your work, especially your book "Violence".' To be fair, he was talking so relentlessly, it was pretty much impossible to say anything at all.

[@TheRealAmericanMan]

They joke but unironically it’s all been downhill since Joker released

[@samswoman2009]

I want to read Felix's articles. Where can I find them??

[@giliam415]

He wrote a lot of good ones for Deadspin. If you google Deadspin and his name you'll find an archive of them. I really recommend the one about Saudi Arabia.

[@nicholasbyram296]

Read them quick before Deadspin goes bankrupt and you have to read them on the wayback machine.

[@THEMATTHIAS225]

29:02 here’s a reminder that Nick is actually a smart and observant person who can call shit out hyper accurately when he wants; but 99% of the time he doesn’t want to because it’s not funny

[@peepeepoopoo9192]

the gayest thing i’ve ever read😢

[@THEMATTHIAS225]

@@peepeepoopoo9192 I am the gayest man in the earth and my name is Michael Douglas

[@mialovely7864]

I’m glad I’m not the only one who actually saw this movie as a class warfare movie.

[@MantisKingMedia]

31:10 perfectly articulated

[@monsignorerasmus.6441]

This is wonderful. And i still haven't seen this movie.

[@MDBowron]

I actually didn't know of Garry Glitter until this podcast, sorry for my rant earlier

[@Slangtalker07]

It wouldnt have even been a comic book movie if it didnt pay lip service to the Thomas Wayne murder

[@kitpalmer1583]

I come back just to specifically listen to Nick's Love Guru bit

[@kitpalmer1583]

57:00

[@bsh819]

Gotta say... stronger takes than the avatar thing.

[@idicula1979]

100 percent agree.

[@JS-lo8hr]

Joker needed communism is the best take.

[@blackspring3207]

But art IS witchcraft.

[@filmbuffoon]

Matt is too mature for this group on the topic of this movie.

[@kevincullen6627]

49:20

[@chrishernandez3699]

Amber is really acting sorta snobby in this. "I hate that they're using comic book movies to tell Ken Loach stories" yet she goes on to praise The Florida Project for being the most beautiful film on the American working class, call the guests out as middle class, and say that Bourgeois people make good art?

[@ricmahurin7535]

GOOD ART

[@ischerer]

Matt is an island

[@syrules]

when the broad made "the woker" joke i would've loved to see Nick's face.

[@CarpeDonnelly]

Nick always has the same face 😐

[@TieFighterDragon]

I groaned when I realized she wasn't being ironic

[@slowloris2894]

Lmao well to be fair to her she did laugh right after saying that, so I think she was just trying to make a joke. Her analysis was 100 percent correct, however it was indeed cringe af.

[@cartercartercartercar]

she’s a magazine writer bro give her a break

[@Garrett1240]

She was joking you mugs

[@Retrostar619]

Amber is 100% spot on about The Florida Project. It's a gem of a film.

[@Horroryoga]

I love the George Romero Joker

[@jzenhenko]

why, in an episode about dumb opinions on a movie, did they not bring stav?

[@jzenhenko]

ok i said this as a joke but adam literally contributed nothing at least stav could represent dumb people with bad opinions

[@jemimallah2591]

stav didn't want to see it because he thought it sounded stupid. he then spent the next episode of cum town (recorded immediately before this) asking about it then immediately whining about nick and adam giving away spoilers whenever they answered him

[@NameAvailable]

@@jemimallah2591 Stav was too stupid to be in the position to have a stupid opinion

[@gunnarchannal]

8:00 podcast starts

[@Shortfirstslip]

Alright isolationist, thanks for diminishing the contribution of magnificent Australian historian Matt V. Brady.

[@Shortfirstslip]

jemimallah Fair, it was a tad on the nose but I enjoyed it

[@Ilovevidgames123]

There's a conversation that happens a lot online, where they'll be a post on social media about privilege, someone will scoff at the idea of privilege in the comments, somebody else will assert that the concept is valid in their replies, the original scoffer will outline the hardships of their life and ask how their life can be hard if they have multiple privileged aspects to their identity, and then either the original replier or a new commenter entirely explains that it's still possible, but the privileged aspects of the scoffer's identity simply didn't contribute. The scoffer will then either begrudgingly accept this explanation or rejects it entirely. But assuming that that rare acceptance happens, it's then undermined because the scoffer sees the explainers of privilege have the unsympathetic stance on this Joker that Amber described.

[@drshitnuts143]

Grant Larson great take

[@BryceChillis]

that one guy has the same voice as ari shaffir

[@davidhill2020]

"I could write that this movie is about inequality, but I'm rich with a make-work job writing about a world that I don't know anything about or sympathize with, so I'll write that it's about incels."

[@kevincullen6627]

Bane miy Baaby boy you look so bootiful

[@JStack]

For all the talk of how painfully forward and beaten over the head the messaging was, my right wing friends saw the whole movie as a reason why state mental health is inadequate and if it was a truly free society without government he would have been free to experience his life without a mental asylum.

[@homeyman1917]

I worked at Alamo Drafthouse for a year + 1/2... there’s not much worth defending

[@dotpeekx]

@CrateofStolenDirt The migrant caravans

[@ewokluv1]

This podcast saved me from the far right pipeline

[@thinkoutloud2144]

22:02

[@yoya.]

Pepe? More like pee pee amirite?

[@Horroryoga]

A thousand clowns is a much better movie

[@MrUncleHerb]

This lady isn't Amber is she? If so I'm sad. Let Mullen speak!

[@Confucius_76]

good point at the end. i work with a bunch of 20 year olds and theyre all obsessed with the marvel movies and star wars. i feel sorry for them because those movies are such trash

[@willowarkan2263]

@Mike Barbarich some of them are alright.

[@damienm.9677]

You feel bad for someone because they enjoy something you don't?

[@trashteamracing8262]

A coworker fits this category well. He'll forgive anything Star Wars because it's Star Wars. Loves all the pandering Funko Pop bs. For years he'd lamented the fact that a DC cinematic universe was always in the toilet. Finally, Joker came along, and he didn't see it, because of the controversy. Some people just want popcorn, lightsaber fights, and easily identifiable good and bad guys.

[@elaikehler6030]

“someone else enjoys something popular and critically well received that i don’t like so it must be trash and i pity them”

[@Confucius_76]

@@elaikehler6030 I don't think they're trash because I don't like them. There's something off about them, and if I knew more about movies and narratives I'd be able to explain why. Isn't the leftist analysis of marvel that it's capitalist propaganda anyway?

[@leahholley7982]

The inverse of taxi driver 😅

[@s.ormgamalson6489]

So according to matt Brady, this movie was like at the mouth of madness by John carpenter

[@sam3499]

that episode art tho...

[@javya699]

23:57

[@BryceChillis]

jack nicholson's joker murdered thousands of people, though

[@jeklingames1692]

Man i don't think i've ever seen a joke on the pod die on it's arse as bad as that "woker" line

[@abc-rf8gi]

it wasn’t even that bad a joke, surely deserved a pity laugh

[@zanemarshall2938]

Ill be honest, Arthur Fleck didn't do anything wrong. Everybody he killed was an awful person, besides maybe his mother who is another victim of the same bullshit Arthur went through. Liberals who thought this movie was misogynistic only display their own complete lack of awareness of anything But like, going through one of my worst psychological crises at the time and not being able to get any help and struggling for food, this movie was so beautifully cathartic and motivated me to A.) Get psychiatric care and ask my friends for help and B.) Reenter radical politics

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

He creeped on that lady and it's hard to see him as believing in anything, I don't know if the movie did either

[@srtnnrnn7405]

Gang weed, society time.

[@MintyFarts]

Have these ppl never heard if an "anti-hero" protagonist role?

[@TheJonnyEnglish]

Anti-hero is a much newer phenomenon found in American culture. You can find characters in older literature that could be considered "anti-hero," but the heros arch was only recently applied to villians, mainly during periods of middle class unrest (ie taxi driver in the 70s and Sopranos/Walter White in the 2000s). It's a cultural response to American's cynicism, much like how the middle class is a 21st century phenomenon, so is the anti-hero.

[@msmslatinclass4959]

@@TheJonnyEnglish It literally isn't a new thing. Anti-hero, is an archetype that has been around since the beginning of media and art. See : Any Scorsese movie; any Clint Eastwood movie; Rhett Butler and Scarlet O'hara are explicitly portrayed as terrible people in situ; The list goes on. It's not new!

[@cam-gv2gf]

obviously yes...they're talking about how much of an anti-hero joker is throughout the whole podcast. did you even listen?

[@MintyFarts]

@@cam-gv2gf I did even listen, which is why I'm not talking about the host's, but commenting on their conversation about critics and perceptions of the movie. Which is why the other replies to my comment are also related to the criticism and perceptions of the movie. Around 20:00 they get more into the cultural aspects if you need a refresher.

[@cam-gv2gf]

@@MintyFarts ugh, this is pointlessly awkward. My deepest apologies for a simple misunderstanding, and I totally agree - modern audiences (or mainly critics) are kinda trained to expect Marvel-type protagonist. That said, it's good to see that audiences actually enjoy a anti-hero like Joker.

[@A_Tempest]

Jen, you make very good points and I enjoy your commentary on the topics. Please stop yelling over other people when they are speaking.

[@liquidladdy]

Why are you attributing tertiary information to this film? "THE JOKERS BAGGAGE" or what ever the fuck that means has nothing to do with Arthur Fleck. Its also annoying how they can just subjectively say "ITS A COMIC BOOK MOVIE" as an insult. Honestly shit takes all around besides from Matt, Adam and Nick.

[@andrewbutler881]

hell yeah a blazeTV ad... which one of you liberals told?

[@61butthatsaveragehere87]

Nick uses word reactionary, and now remeber how is he perceived by fans and wider twitter culture

[@KonkeyVG]

15:41 lol gritty cinema was invented in the 1970s, Italian neorealism and film noir might disagree.

[@Unbrowny]

29:30 Amber owns Nick pretty hard 😂

[@nicobeck42069]

ya'll should watch Bacurau

[@moazamkhan]

I'm a classic Obama style neolib, but I listen to Chapo religiously, fascinating insight, and have moved me on a few issues.

[@bmurray7348]

Amber: “like”

[@Confucius_76]

did chapo trap house get their name from alamo drafthouse?

[@jackrutledgegoembel5896]

love ur username

[@feydrautha012]

The hysterical moral panic people are still winning-Ken Loach was brought up during this episode, and he's been purged for having wrongthink about the supposed antisemitism crisis in the UK Labour party.