Starship Troopers Explained | Chapo Trap House | Episode 436

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Clip from episode 436 - Consider the Lobster feat. David Roth (7/13/20).
Paul Verhoeven's Starship Troopers
#chapotraphouse #chapo

[@bobostanky4771]

Every tenth episode is about Star ship troopers and I love it

[@JStack]

Came back to this episode after watching it with my “Democratic,” family members. “That’s exactly why we need America and we need to expand the military. This movie is kinda like America sacrificing everything to win WW2 and stop the Nazis” Modern culture essentially has you posture to be uninformed rather than accidentally end up with accurate information

[@beej741]

The idea that the martial posture of the Federation is all for show makes a lot more sense watching the movie again. Almost no one in the military is competent at their job and most civilians, who make up most of the population, seem really domesticated and even decadent at times. All this adds up to a culture that can only express itself through war but is actually completely incapable of actually doing it. Also, Rico’s new recruits at the end are definitely children, the Federation is badly losing the war and that’s really disturbing because the human race is being exterminated based on a false image of itself.

[@GodlessXVIII]

The fact that Starship Troopers is S A T I R E still escapes the notice of a large contingent of youtube commenters...

[@MrTheevilmage]

@ it is satire... And clever satire cause people that are really into it but have no idea of the broader connotations attached. Its why so many fascists like it. They can't understand its a satire cause to fascists satire is complicated and nuanced much like this movie. But a fascist sees all the iconography and subtle references and just presumes that yes; this is a fascist film disguised to get passed censors. And they think this because they're stupid.

[@GodlessXVIII]

@ jeff goldblum there it is.gif

[@AlbinoAxolotl1993]

That and warhammer 40k.

[@Radjhitoocool]

I had no idea until the uniforms 😢 watching kids stomp bugs should’ve been a hint but I thought it was a joke

[@isaiahd2123]

Some people don't even know what satire is

[@ince55ant]

starship troopers is what USA looks like from the outside

[@GodlessXVIII]

bruh

[@ince55ant]

@ tell that to the hosts of the US militarys twitch channel

[@rafyhay5916]

@ Nah Starship Troopers is close to how we see the US, but if almost everyone was obese or addicted to opioids.

[@berdyderg900]

From the inside as well :) help us :)

[@SuperSpasticNinja]

The thing with the brainbug, all the trouble they went through to capture it, and their "research" on it leads them to the great scientific breakthrough of... drumroll please... developing a slightly bigger gun.

[@user-il9ze9py8c]

But how could they have known otherwise???????????¿??????

[@willdoesclips]

they stab it with a stick for the "research"

[@tothejazz4828]

Rosa Parks transforming into a bus

[@crashingspectacular]

Starship troopers is a movie about cool solder dudes who blow up insects and also hot women 😎😎😎 epic flick

[@flashthompson6566]

I mean, Dina Meyers shower scenes are always welcome

[@IndirectCogs]

Legendary podcast 🎉🎉🎉 I saw this in 2020, and I'm glad it's reentered relevancy. People have no media literacy about Starship Troopers

[@HaplessHypnagogic]

Goddamn Matt's observation about the decepticons being the trains that brought people to Auschwitz really didn't get a big enough pop

[@QilinReggae]

Probably because Felix made that exact same joke the last time they talked about Transformers in 2017. It got the proper reaction at the time for what it's worth..

[@gfarrell80]

Starship Troopers: now available for streaming on netflix. Watched it again. What a freakin' subtle masterpiece. On 2nd viewing since my first time watching it back in the 90's, I did catch a very brief counter thought, lines said by one of the embedded journalists with the troops: "Some say the bugs were provoked by the intrusion of humans into their natural habitat, that 'live and let live' is preferable to war with the bugs.” Forget the Iraq war, this was a prediction of 9/11!

[@rotciv1486]

I mean when doughie Houser appears in SS windbreaker, all subtly went away.

[@jamesmccrea4871]

There was no live and let policy with the bugs because the bugs initiated war by wiping out the mormons, then they immediately started a genocidal war against earth by throwing meteors at the planet. There was no live and let live policy because the bugs refused to communicate with humans, the entire second half of the movie is all about establishing contact with the bugs and forcing negotiations to end the war without having to fight until one species or the other was wiped out. The battle at Whiskey Outpost was a military operation to prove the bugs were intelligent and not just acting on instinct... the brain-sucking bug proved that somewhere in the bug hierarchy was an intelligence that we could possibly negotiate with. The operation on Planet P was designed to capture brain bugs and learn how to communicate with them... again, to negotiate an end of the war.

[@gfarrell80]

@@jamesmccrea4871 ugh, you're missing a very important very brief piece of info that Verhoeven put into the mouth of the reporter character: “Some say the bugs were provoked by the intrusion of humans into their natural habitat" - the Mormons it was explicitly stated settled in bug territory. The bugs were reacting to colonial expansion. If you are familiar with 19th and 20th century colonialism in the Middle East by European powers and the United States, the 9/11 attacks are very analogous to the rock the bugs threw at Earth in the Starship Troopers. Instead of swallowing the 'they hate us for our freedom' line, try reading about all the regime changes the US has backed in the region and how they see themselves as colonial victims. Which the middle east very much is.

[@Radjhitoocool]

@@gfarrell80 Thank you this thread is the funniest shit I’ve read in a long time but it’s also very depressing

[@troyareyes]

If they ever try to make another DOOM movie, Verhoven should direct.

[@gapsule2326]

In the book they're somehow losing using army of Gundams armed with nukes.

[@vexrosenberg7386]

yeah like why dont they just glass the planet with nukes, its never explained why they dont do this besides the fact that they just thinking sending soldiers into a meat grinder because its fun lol. i think its the later, at least in the movie

[@Player-cu9ys]

@@vexrosenberg7386 that's actually what the author thought, he opposed nukes on the grounds that conventional warfare with ground troops are key to the development of moral character of human beings

[@LogjammerDbaggagecling-qr5ds]

So many things are right on the nose with this movie, like when they blame the bugs for asteroid strikes. It would take literally millions of years for those asteroids to get to our solar system from the bug homeworld. Its basically a false flag used as an excuse to go to war. Does that sound familiar? *cough* gulf of tonkin *cough*

[@Dare5358]

except we see it happen (coming thru a warp hole almost hitting Carmen's ship) in the movie in real time, so we know it wasn't. and we see that bugs have the ability to attack space ships out of orbit in real time. unless the feds "let it thru" to gin up more war, but there's no indication of that. so blaming the bugs makes sense in the context of their world and what we see.

[@LogjammerDbaggagecling-qr5ds]

@Dare5358 what? 1 you didn't address anything I said, and 2 the asteroid did not come through a "warp hole." It was just dark. They saw the gravity field well before they saw the asteroid.

[@coreygolphenee9633]

You don't mess with the Zohan should be added to the chapo movie cannon

[@joshjacks2837]

I called out someone for not saying 'Freedom Fries', I DID MY PART!

[@ripred42]

Not sure about the whole no critics knew it was satire thing. Siskel and Ebert specifically said they enjoyed the statire. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpSlmoiYe5yYiNksi=UvKwv6mkcgVg4kRA

[@red_isopat]

there is tactics in the movie, but its the bugs that use them

[@mikequinlivan8842]

I didn’t get it when it came out. However, I was also 16, in bumfuck Minnesota. Perhaps some 16 year olds pick up on that satire, but not this country bumpkin.

[@RedSntDK]

There's a pretty huge lore dump in the early school scenes, but as a teen I was so captivated by distracting note sending back and forth. Oh, and I got diagnosed with ADD recently, so maybe that's also part of it, but it's weird how easily I tuned the teacher out.

[@nocomment3294]

There is no blame in not getting the hints at 16, some do not see them at 60. But any careful watch of the movie shows the cracks in that fascist utopia where total equality between the sexes has been achieved, etc, when non privileged women have to serve in a war to be granted the right to bear one child, and so on.

[@iamthekulture3822]

69th, nice... starship troopers nicer

[@Sandwich0artist]

nice

[@matthewbrandt5053]

nice

[@nakfoor1846]

I love the part at 16:45 that discusses the hallmark of fascists is to underestimate their enemies because they have dehumanized them so much while bestowing upon themselves the crown of unquestioned superiority. We saw it when the nazis invaded the Soviet Union, believing it would collapse when the door was kicked in. We see it with Trump supporters, who simply could not believe that Biden would win let alone that Trump didn’t win a 49 state landslide or whatever.

[@SomeBF]

See the inherent contradiction of white supremacist canon that the white man is unquestionably superior yet has been completely BTFO by the Jewish people at every turn

[@zehsackett6132]

Lol what a dumb ass comparison

[@berdyderg900]

​@@zehsackett6132How so? Are you a Nazi or why would that seem inaccurate? 'the enemy is overpowering and must be stopped but is also incompetent and on the verge of collapse' has been the lie told by Germany/America at every turn, get mad I guess

[@AlbinoAxolotl1993]

Starship Troopers is the most close thing we're getting to a Warhammer 40k movie.

[@cruznix4741]

Honestly that is hard facts!!!!!!! It would be awesome if the same director made a war hammer movie lowkey

[@theodoreganymede2095]

I'm sure they'll be able to market it as the Lovecraft Cinematic Universe

[@TimJBenham]

There was a war in Iraq before 1997. Those who forget history are doomed.

[@RedSntDK]

And what did America learn from Operation Desert Storm? Air filters for their abram tanks. And perhaps not using depleted uranium for bullets. Um, and burn pits are bad? Wait, no, that didn't happen first time around..

[@agluebottle]

Michael Ironside's delivery of the line "They sucked his brains out" was the stuff of legends.

[@richarcher499]

For anyone who's looking it's on HBOMAX as of this week

[@nohbuddy1]

Starship Troopers is like if The Producers actually resulted with their intention of the play being a flop and poorly received. Conservatives also think it isn't satire because it isn't over the top like Springtime for Hitler

[@coreygolphenee9633]

Springtime for Hitler is hilarious mostly because of the crowd shots

[@rotciv1486]

I just saw this movie. it was amazing lol.

[@theodoreganymede2095]

*For your consideration* _Rudolf's ascension could be called a prime example of the masses preferring orders and obedience and the accompanying release from responsibility to independent thought and the obligations that come with it._ _When Rudolf became Kaiser, those who couldn't restrain their anger about it were far outnumbered by those who greeted it with acclaim._ _It was none other than the people themselves who wished for Rudolf to be the Kaiser. And in response, Rudolf, through extremely strong leadership and firm decisiveness, enforced law and order, brought high efficiency to administrative management, and purged corrupt officials._ kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3-rp4KNarWDh6c

[@marcuswalters8093]

19:01 I remember that scene. I saw it at around 15 and yet even then it wasn't really sexy. I wanted it to be excited because boobs, of course. But it didn't do it for me.

[@Ancienregime8090]

69,420 subscribers... Nice

[@markcouch4235]

"we lOve it!!"

[@raoulduke7208]

Nerding out way beyond my comprehension.

[@haveyouheardofthehighelves]

Did this episode get removed from the patreon?

[@wendigo2442]

2:04 imagine

[@davidtobias6893]

I honestly didn’t know it was satire.

[@wendigo2442]

Bc it’s a boring ass movie and they’re making this shit up, the “subversive” shit was like 4 jokes and the rest is boring as hell

[@fluffy9071]

@@wendigo2442 keep practicing man

[@newtagwhodis4535]

holy sh** lmao, Painting a stairwell to an attic trying not to roll down the stairs cracking up

[@sdfghyuiop7750]

They talked a lot about Verhoeven's vision but I would've liked to hear more about Heinlein's too.

[@GrimReader]

Heinlein is pretty enamoured with his fascist future in it

[@venicebeachsportsnetwork6677]

The book only had like 60 pages of cool bug fighting and kinda sucked

[@AloisWeimar]

From Troopers to Stranger in a Strange Land is a quite the difference. The Fascist talk is a bit overstated and is kinda glib.

[@miroo4097]

Name one Facist thing in the book. An before you say only veterans can vote that is wrong. In the book they clearly state a majority of Federal Service (which how you earn the right to vote) is non military. In fact they go out of there way to say the army is small. No is oppressed (Jauns parent are literally rich who want to send him to Harvard. Having spent generations without anyone taking Federal Service). Everybody seems to forget only Heinliens book is cannon. An in that book there is no oppression of civilians, no wide spread corruption is shown, no random genocide of innocents, there is nothing you can point to and say that's a Facist policy.

[@Some_Average_Joe]

​@miroo4097 I think the main criticism of society in Starship Troopers, as outlined by Heinlein, is that it is completely unrealistic that such a society would not devolve into fascism.

[@jonbaszkiewicz]

I could sense the anger of the actors. I knew that they knew it was a caricature/parody.

[@stephenrea3537]

This is possibly the best analysis Chapo has ever done

[@0ptimuscrime]

Is that a GameCube in the bottom right?

[@jakitron890]

Looks not quite square, so I guess it's slightly legally distinct

[@DisappointedBuddha]

Yes

[@tomrobbins5242]

Since WW2. Really.

[@ladedade23Blunticus]

Before that

[@SolosSpirit]

hey there guys and gals, a european fan here. I was thinking, the animation of the podcast is really great, but it would really help us understand everything you say if you guys also filmed yourselves talking, without any extra stuff or even with a shitty camera, it's really useful to see people's mouths, and also it would be cool to be able to identify who says what. I know it kinda contradicts the idea of a podcast, but a lot of radios do that, like France's France Inter, and it's really helping with success, especially overseas. Just an idea I'm throwing out there! You guys rock, please keep up the fight

[@davepringle3218]

Damn just about to call it a night

[@davepringle3218]

Yawn...if Denise Richards never let em loose nobody would remember this

[@unciervoenciervado]

Again?

[@Jcewazhere]

I think you guys need to rewatch the movie. I'm watching the movie now after watching this and in the opening credits the kid in the armor is there saying he's doing his part. Yeah humanity is losing, but they were from the start of the movie. Also within the first 6 minutes Denise Richards is kissing what's his name while another couple is making out next to them. Not sure where you got the no sex part of it. Then Doogie Howser asks what's his name if they've done it yet, so clearly sex is a big issue. What's his name's parents are against him joining the military. It's clear they have money and at least enough power to travel freely, but they're against him serving so they either weren't forced to or they became citizens some other way. Or they're not citizens but still have those freedoms...? He talks to Denise at the dance and decides to join to follow his little brain to war. Then they go to her house because her dad isn't home. Edit: They should totally do the third one, just watch it first.

[@MpowerdAPE]

You're missing the point, or you're fine with what you've been "given"... or you don't know what sex looks like....

[@vexrosenberg7386]

i might be fash. i actually think the dumb violence is kinda awesome.

[@bettercallsaal]

Lmao that’s the point

[@usucculentcow2988]

Oh no youre right about the dumb violence being fun that's why games like doom exist ,ripping and tearing is fun period

[@vexrosenberg7386]

@@bettercallsaal yeah but the chapos said it was just gratuitous and irredeemable. Which it is gratuitous but the action is probably the best action cgi ive ever seen. Its not like a "come and see"

[@Bpinator]

@@vexrosenberg7386 All three of them have said they enjoyed it as well. Thats the point of it, the movie shows the attractiveness of insane fascism.

[@americabear783]

Out of content so they're recycling their talking points from 2018. We don't need another analysis of Verhoeven, guys.

[@Yor_gamma_ix_bae]

CHOKE ON A PRETZEL ! AND LIVE LIKE GEORGE BUSH DID!

[@J-Dawg81]

We do

[@ericjamieson]

I always thought the world of Starship Troopers was more about extreme militarism rather than actual fascism. Think Japan in the 1930s instead of Germany or Italy.

[@MechanicWolf85]

Militarism is a form of facism Nazis glorified the military alot in their propaganda, you kinda need the military in order to justify Facism Nobody is going to Agree with the government, But everybody loves the military

[@szrfph]

Japan in the 1930s was uncontroversially fascist

[@rotciv1486]

japan is kind of a fascistic state as it is tho.

[@jamesmccrea4871]

The Terran Federation is not a fascist society. It's a free democratic society with strong libertarian leanings. It serves a constution, leaders are elected and held to account. Its not a single party dictatorship and EVERYONE, from a quadriplegic to a high school athlete or an 80 year old businesswoman can earn the right to vote by serving 2 years in Federal service that is NOT limited to the military. In a fascism all civilians are expected to serve the nation and the party. In the Terran Federation everyone has the right to choose, and choosing not to has NO repercussions expect you cannot vote or hold office. The idea is to reduce corruption, if you want to get rich, stay a civilian and work the private sector. If you want to vote, and take part in politics, you have to prove that you are willing to risk your own well-being for the good of your fellow man. The idea of earning franchise is just that... you WORK for it, you RISK for it, so you understand that it has value in a way that a gift on you 18th birthday doesn't. Anything you have to work, save, and earn for always has more value to you than something given.

[@jamesmccrea4871]

The goal is to stress personal responsibility.

[@maltheopia]

"Starship Troopers is satire" is the most basic, toddler-ass take in cinema. Yeah, there are reactionaries and other morons who would be genuinely surprised by this boring observation, but they're surprised that it hurts when you stick a butter knife into a power outlet. But to the non-chuds among us? You're insulting our intelligence with that fake revelation.

As a reactionary i can tell you that you're correct about the first thing. ST is not satire. Paul Verhoeven is a secret fash. That's why his movies are so compelling

[@Dylan4nderson]

Truuue acting like this is a new revelation or some shit 😅

[@waltonsmith7210]

I think they were just pointing out how nonobbious it was to the mai stream critics of the time. Simmer down.

[@noko4247]

yr actually smart af damn

[@blakebramley9171]

Just finished it. Just seems like a corny cheesy sci fi movie. I don’t get the hype

[@jamesmccrea4871]

Verhoeven failed to even satire fascism. There's no fascism in the movie, just naziesque uniforms and bullshit pulled out of the director and writer's asses. There is no fascism in the novel, either, if you actually read it. If you want to see a real satire of fascism, made by a real master who actually understood fascism, watch The Great Dictator.

[@Ceidonianphysicist]

I don’t think you understand fascism. Militaristic subservience, lack of democracy, glorification of militaristic violence, justification of expansionism etc.

[@jamesmccrea4871]

​​ @Ceidonianphysicist First of all, there isn't a hint of militaristic subservience in the movie, as Buenos Aires pretty much looks like a capitalist city with free citizens and Rico's father shit-talks the right to vote and Federal Service without any hint of fear in him or Rico. The government is not the military, it is not ruled by a dictator. It is a democratically elected government, and any citizen can cast a vote and become a politician. ANY CITIZEN. The only stipulation is a person serve 2 years in Federal Service that does not have to be military. No one is barred from federal service by any means, except being found unable to understand the Federal Oath to the Terran Federation CONSTITUTION, not to a party or the leader. The entire movie is predicated on the fact that anyone can serve and anyone can vote. The Sky Marshall isn't a dictator, and when one grossly screws up he RESIGNS and is replaced. (I don't recall Hitler resigning after Stalingrad or Mussolini after the North African campaign, do you?) The Terran Federation is a full, capitalist democracy where everyone has the same rights as anyone today has in the United States or any other Western Democracy. Again: ANYONE can CHOOSE to become a citizen by two years of public service to prove you care enough to EARN your right to vote. Earning your right to vote through difficult service is not a punishment, it's intended to give your right to vote VALUE because it is earned. It does not matter what race you are, it does not matter if you're a high school athlete or a 45 year old businessman or a 20 year old quadriplegic... as long as you can mentally understand the oath, you can earn your 'franchise'. Service does NOT have to be military, and is limited to 2 years, unless circumstances demand otherwise. Once the war is over, people go home. They don't move on to the next war. There is no glorification of militaristic 'violence' for violence's sake, but there is a glorification of those who choose of their own free will to fight in the defense of others, which is no different from how we tend to treat soldiers today. "Thank you for your service" is a mantra. Movies that show the evil and horrors of war are common with the goal of trying to show the civilian who has never seen war just what these men went through, the first 15 minutes of Saving Private Ryan, Act of Valor, etc. as well as try to portray that it is good and right and proper to serve your fellows and defend your home. The ARACHNIDS are the expansionists, not the Terran Federation. In fact, the movie CLEARLY states that A) Mormon extremists colonized Dantana against warnings given by the Terran Federation which had placed Dantana in an exclusion zone, specifically to avoid the Arachnids. A fascist government would have sent in the troops FIRST, then FORCED citizens to move into the newly conquered territories, just like Italy planned in Africa and Germany actually DID in Poland and Russia. The Terran Federation did not try to stop them from going, and did not make them go. It was the Mormon's choice. B) Arachnids massacre the Mormons, who had nothing to do with Terran Federation, and then start lobbing meteors at Earth indiscriminately, not in self-defense, but to wipe out the Terran homeworld. C) The Terran Federation goes to war in response to the Arachnid attacks on earth. The initial goal is to strike the Arachnid homeworld and force an end to a conflict had only just begun. Not expansionism, but self-defense. D) Klendathu. Military clusterfuck by an administration that did not understand it's enemy. There is no "lying" propaganda, the media tells the absolute truth because we know it's absolute truth, because we saw RICO there when it happens. Fascist media would never have reported Klendathu's casualties any more than Nazi Germany had reported Stalingrad's. And unlike Hitler at Stalingrad, the Sky Marshall accepts responsibility and steps down while a new administration takes over. E) The new administration, instead of brawling it out with the Arachnids, settles on two goals: understanding the Arachnids in order to COMMUNICATE, which the Arachnids have NOT BOTHERED TO DO, and force an end to the war via NEGOTIATION if possible, and if there is no other choice, then by eradication. The Terran Federation had no way to communicate directly with the bugs other than fighting back, the second half of the movie shows that the Terran Federation goal is to find out how to communicate with the bugs. Whiskey Outpost is a test of intelligence, which proves the bugs were intelligent enough to set a trap. Planet P is an operation to capture brain or queen bugs in order to try to force them to communicate and negotiate a settlement of the war before one group wipes out the other. You are wrong, I understand Fascism, I also understand Heinlein's novel, and I recognize the failures of Verhoeven to portray any fascism at all in his lazy-assed attempt to 'satire fascism' while actually making one of the most popular democratic libertarian (TINY government, MASSIVE personal freedoms) films ever made. I could go into more detail, but I really doubt you'll even bother to read this... I'll be happy to go into more detail if you wish.

[@Jazzfunkmaster]

Fascism from a cultural perspective rather than literal fascism

[@jamesmccrea4871]

@@Jazzfunkmaster There is still no fascism in the movie, much less the novel. From either perspective. There is no example of fascism at all. If you can present one and why it fits fascism, I'd be happy to debate it with you. And I don't mean the Nazi-looking uniforms. Just one example in the 'culture', not costume, you see in the movie that's specifically fascist.

[@Jazzfunkmaster]

​@@jamesmccrea4871 You know what allegory is? Just because its not an absolute comparison doesn't mean it has nothing in common with any perceived inspiration... It takes place in a global militarist state where service gifts you more rights than basic citizenship, and revolves around a conquest against a perceived force of invasion. It's not satirising a brand of fascist politics that we are overly familiar with like Nazism or whatever but envisioning where we are and where we're headed in relation to globalism/the military industrial complex/zombified corporate capitalism/colonialism. FDR said that "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power" which hits the nail on the head in this respect. Film was also directed by someone who grew up in occupied Netherlands and Robocop/Total Recall are essentially spins on similar themes

[@TheAlmightyAss]

I remember even as a child feeling so awful at the end, with the poor little alien terrified. One of the early 'humans are the actual evil' exposes I had.

[@kylewolf740]

Doesn't it eat peoples brains

[@godissecondtome]

@@kylewolf740 those people sucked though :(

[@fluffy9071]

@@kylewolf740you guys have a dog's brain so I think that's okay