Chappell Roan and The Art of Niche Fame

[@MarySpender]

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[@AdamNeely]

Thanks for coming to the gig Mary! The crowds are gloriously nerdy, and I'm glad I'm in the tiny niche I am, and wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

[@artkincell]

One could argue what Adam Neely is to fame, Mary Spender is the same.

[@AmyNaylorMusic]

Great video 💚 I think the only drawback of "niche fame" is the whiplash that comes with it. When I go to a handpan festival, anywhere in the world, almost everyone knows who I am. I'm an introvert, but I step into my extrovert role during those events and the longer I'm on tour the more I become the "Amy Naylor" that everyone loves. It feels pretty cool, but it's not sustainable because I stop being my full 3D self, and I don't always get the deeper connections I long for (though often, I do. Of course there are many incredible parts to global touring and who you meet along the way) And then as soon as I'm home, I'm no one again, and I have space to be whole. Its always a huge relief but it also takes a little while to shed the ego that starts to build and come back to myself. There's this strange period of uncomfortable limbo. I'm so grateful for both experiences, and I wouldn't change it for the world, I'm SO lucky to be where I am. But man... the code switching is exhausting! Thanks for this video!!

[@LynnDavidNewton]

Excellent essay, Mary. It reminded me of my early early days in the professional music world. You never heard of me, but I was what some might call fame-adjacent. While working in New York City, I became shocked by some things happening in the business. I started to calculate the cost of sudden fame if I happened to become successful in what I'd set out to do. The need to live on the road much of the time, the limitations on family life and other personal pursuits, and other factors influenced me. At some point, I realized that what I was experiencing was not what I signed up for. I'd burned some bridges behind me and found that I needed to step back and re-evaluate the meaning of music in my life. I've remained passionate about it and personally involved ever since but have made my living in other ways. For me it was the right thing to do.

[@Kagekozo]

Dear Ms. Spender, You are loved by us "Niche" fans. Your love for the craft is what has drawn me to you. May it be your music, your guitar nerd video (Trust me I love them!!), or simply being modest Mary, it is really about sharing your honest self. I always believe this: be you, nothing more nothing less. And you are my favorite "Niche".🤩👍

[@SeanFlynnNB]

Happy to spend time in this niche you have created for yourself and for us. Thanks, Mary.

[@blortmeister]

Exactly the kind of sensible, grounded commentary I've come to expect from you. *lifts glass* Here's to being a creator who can live on what they make from their work!

[@scafusa]

I really enjoyed seeing the excitement in your face and your gestures at the end of the video when talking about the freedom you hav to choose and create your future. Love it 👍🏻

[@joermnyc]

Back in college I knew the bassist from a local band. They went from having a great demo tape, to a record deal that went big enough to tour Japan and appear on MTV Japan in support of their first album. While finalizing album number 2, something just caused it all to tear apart and they not only broke up but shelved that 2nd album forever. It was great music and the knowledge that there was more but it’s now gone is very sad. (The Realistics from NYC, this was about 20 years ago, so it might be harder to find them now. They sounded like a modern take on New Wave artists like The Cars.)

[@threadripper979]

Not to worry, Mary, you are loved.

[@WannaBeatle-Paul_McMichael]

I've been thinking about this kind of subject a bit the last several years. Having been in the entertainment industry for a few decades, I've had a very minimal amount of so-called "fame". But, ever since the late 90s, I noticed I gained a lot more attention via online and in the real world. But, I think that was mainly due to who I might look like (and possibly who my friends are). But, generally I can go out in public and not be bothered ( as opposed to my friends that are or were world-known celebrities). But, I've always been grounded and never got "caught up" and "believed my own press ".

[@BillPeschel]

Speaking of Robin, a guy who met him unaware of who he was (it was a time when he was heavily bearded). They chatted for awhile until the guy realized who he was talking to. At that moment, he saw Robin shut down, his face hardening in anticipation of a fan encounter. Along those lines, the guy who wrote the screenplay for "Night at the Museum" had good advice for budding scriptwriters. If they're called into a meeting with a high-powered actor, never, ever, accept anything from them. Not even a glass of water if they offered. It throws them off-balance and signals that you -- the screenwriter -- is there to work, not to exploit the actor.

[@shanekerrmusic]

Nice video, thank you. I wanted to be a famous musician when I was younger as well. I had a taste of it in the 90's and hated it, although I was still relatively a nobody. But it wasn't just feeling alone, it was also dealing with some awful people behind the scenes in the Australian music scene. I returned home and made a living playing clubs and pubs, weddings and parties ever since and I'm happy doing that. Some locals say I'm just being a big fish in a little pond and are disappointed, that I was "too gutless" or "too lazy" to try and make a name for myself, but they don't understand.

[@Mrinspectorpurple]

Enjoy watching and listening to you. Keep up the good music and music “counseling.”

[@pulaski1]

I was walking briskly along the curb of Oxford St, London, shortly before Christmas in the late 1980's (along the curb, because that was the only place to walk briskly), when a middle-aged woman in an oversize trench coat and a large floppy wide-brimmed hat, stepped out of the crowd on the pavement, as she focused on the bag she was carrying, and into my path on the curb. I very nearly ploughed straight into her, and had to dodge around her to avoid a collision, but in that split second, as I was inches from bumping into her, I caught a glimpse of her face under the brim of her hat. I had been just a split second away from knocking Penelope Keith flying! 😯

[@aaronsanborn4291]

You know Maine is home, part time home or vacation spot for many celebrities John Travolta, Kirstie Allie, Tom Selleck (owns a horse farm in Rye, New Hampshire) and many more. We might wave at them or even just see them at a local mom and pop diner and we treat them like we would anyone else. That's why they love Maine.

[@hummerchine]

I love this! So well put Mary! I’m a wealthy retired dentist rocking his life, recently spent 1.5 months rock climbing in Greece at a spectacular villa. Had I been famous? The trip would have absolutely sucked. Being anonymous is priceless. Stay in your lane….it’s perfect!

[@chasmenear7130]

Great presentation Mary. I suppose I am quite happy in my 'unknownness'... something that is difficult when you subscribe to popular culture. I simply enjoy picking up a guitar or uke, and practicing pleasant sound craft with it. That's it. No frills, bells or whistles needed. It's peaceful. Nuff said.😊

[@danielschaeffer1294]

Back in the 80s I did music journalism for the local papers and I ONLY did stories on niche celebrities. They were real humans and you could talk with them for hours. Doc Watson, Leo Kottke, Bugs Henderson, great people. I would have had no idea what to say to Michael Jackson.

[@fordsrestorations970]

The reason I walked away from Fame is, looking at my friends completely unhappy, soon to die selling out too cheaply . I'd rather be a human being than a puppet . I am the last living of my band and I was able to play guitar way late last night still alive

[@jethrox827]

Yeh me too, I hate fame 👍

[@godsinbox]

what you describe is NOT 'fame' it is constant requirement to output quality work to gain more money manifesting as pressure and unsupervised release.

[@GoneButNotGone]

File this one in the “be careful what you wish for” folder. Speaking of niche fame, I recently came across British singer-songwriter Chris Brain, who seems to be another of those amazing artists who deserves way more attention than his KZbin analytics suggest. If you like Nick Drake type stuff, check him out.

[@TenebrousFilms]

'Internet famous' is what I've called it, since watching the intro to the Carmilla movie in 2017... not the 2019 one, it was the continuation of the Carmilla series on youtube, 'the little web series that could'. Internet famous certainly seems healthier than worldwide(ish) famous.

[@ColdGrayMorning]

RUSH song "Limelight" expresses Peart's discomfort with Rush's success and the resulting attention from the public.

[@alanpettibone]

I love your music and always appreciate your perspective. Hearing you discuss how you could end your channel and delete your online musics makes me so glad I pre-ordered your CD a while back. Streaming your music great and convenient but it feels like being a part of something when you get a signed CD in the mail. Thanks for all you bring to us😊

[@Gotblade]

Feeling less alone by myself than around people makes sense to me. Trying to interpret social interaction on the fly is quite a skill that I envy. To the point in large gatherings I can't understand what's being said while others are engaged in several directions of conversation simultaneously! Fame on top of that would be exhausting! I'd rather stay out of the way. There is no solution is there? I miss Robin ❤

[@Brian-Michigan]

Fame is usually the result of chasing prosperity thru music... what you have is much better, free creativity, not starving, and good health... chase those things and happiness will result...

[@CasperLCat]

30 years ago, I got on a hospital elevator in Chicago whose only inhabitant was Eric Clapton. As a Boomer and rock fan, I recognized his face immediately. I also had an instant feeling of pity, because his face looked so unhealthy. (This was before rehab). He was there for his bad back, I learned from a doctor. Everyone, in the end, is just a person, trying to make their way.

[@OuterEastLLC]

You don't know how great anonymity until you lose it. When you are famous your secrets are currency to others. As for luxury living, no matter how many houses you have one can only ever be in one room at a time. I was asked to house sit in a fancy downtown condo for a couple weeks. The sheer luxury of it all made the outside world seem more ominous. Despite being in a bustling part of downtown, I stayed inside most of the time.

[@ianhoyle8459]

Mary you are still very young yourself and new as an artist; Taylor Swift was whisked off to fame and global super-domes before she could even think about it. The machine swept her up; which could very well still happen to you,m; if you want that, which you apparently don’t so much, which is so very cool! However on the other hand you remain a primary and competent communicator, song writer, speaker and independent artist. The medium that you chose to expose your talent is inadvertently your primary source of success: KZbin. So this relatively new medium of communication has exposed not only your incredible raw musical ability as a player and songwriter, but most of all as an extremely talented film maker and photogenic communicator incorporating genuine, sound, integrity as an influencer. ❤

[@VeryImportantPoetry]

NICHE FAMOUS - such a genuine term.😊 Now I know what I'll tell people when they ask me for my favourite artists. I was always struggling to explain to them what music I like. Most of my music collection is filled with that kind of artists.

[@michaelmeehan9083]

I used to harbor delusions about wanting to be famous, then I got a letter to the editor actually published in the Arizona Republic. The resulting mail, phone messages, and acrimony transmitted thereby disabused me of the notion rather quickly.

[@gregsheppard1457]

Neil Peart got it right on Limelight. Thanks as ever for your thoughts Mary.

[@MartinBaldock]

I've sampled a little bit of "niche fame" in my time, and it's quite nice when it's related to my art activities because it's limited to just the occasional. I find a room full of people quite stressful anyway. Also I had never played in a band before 2012, and for a few months the thing began to really take off, which started out exciting, and I witnessed the stresses begin to overtake the excitement. Needless to say it all fell apart quite quickly.

[@T10elC]

Excellent video. I cannot imagine how hard it is to be on the road. It's much better to be in control of your life.

[@grahamcooper2144]

Saw Sting walking alone in my home town of Ghent. He's on other side of the street walking in the opposite direction. I waved. He waved back and smiled. We both continued our respective (respectful?) walk. It felt right. It was enough.

[@thomasbrook8129]

Well put. I had dreams but never happened. Content doing open mic and moment and c what happens when ready to b more committed.

[@sonoftheredfox]

I saw the thumbnail and knew this would be a good commentary. Great perspective. Also, very cool tshirt.

[@connecticutaggie]

Greetings from another musical Portland - Portland Oregon (USA). There are SO MANY great artists out here and also SO MANY venues. You should come and check it out and we would love to see you perform. Also, the views are amazing.

[@harvey1954]

I once asked Pete Best aboutLennon's murder changing his own view of life. While Pete lost out on the money (until the last decade) and fame, but he can play with his grandchildren. Lennon's cashed in his chips at 40. Pete said, "It's some compensation".

[@blankthoughttv]

There was one time that I was that annoying needy fan to a group. Im happy to say that Ive grown past that and am still a fan. I looked at how I was acting and realized that it would leave a poor taste in my mouth.

[@arquivo225]

Hey Mary we all respectfully love you!

[@marsgal42]

I’m reminded of the phrases “15 Minutes of Fame” and “One Hit Wonder”. The archetype of the former might be the Spice Girls. The latter, Norman Greenbaum (“Spirit in the Sky”) or Gotye. Both of whom subsequently quit music…

[@davecharlesspencer]

The smaller gigs are so much more enjoyable Mary. Thing is with these you get your true fans …like us x

[@HocksEvan]

I feel as though whenever any of us complain about life its always about the inability to do what we want. As someone on low income, that could be not being able to afford the luxuries you wish, or being exhausted from being overworked. For these large celebrities in stems from not being able to go and live their day to day life. It's the same feeling of being trapped, just from separate places. And this is why you can see people who have everything suddenly no longer being happy

[@peterlundskow4061]

Very insightful video, thank you! I am so glad I discovered you but, it might not have been if I hadn't been subscribed to Rick Beato's videos & seeing the ones with you. There is another factor to comparing past fame to current. There are a few of my favorite singer/songwriters that I first discovered in the late 80's that were found by big labels & had lots of energy directed their way. Tastes shifted, the labels still made them fulfill their contract obligations but, were of little further help to them. Since then these artists had to struggle to buy their catalog back & get themselves out of their contracts. At least the ones who did this successfully have now moved into niche fame themselves, through streaming, self releasing & KZbin. I would also add that even though streaming doesn't give much back to the artists that it has expanded my musical discoveries & tastes in the biggest way in my life. Working in a music store & listening to college radio was the biggest way to do that before streaming for me.

[@stevenl257]

I remember Paul McCartney saying that during the heights of Beatlemainia he felt like he was living in a prison without bars.

[@adrimathlener8008]

Well Mary, you are being loved bu your family, friends, musicians and fans. No question about that.

[@stuartd9741]

This is really interesting, & one of the reasons I haven't made any videos on YT. I have a number of ideas for a channel(s) but the thought that if my channel was to grow very quickly and soon hit 1M subscribers, the pressure I would feel to make content would be to overwhelming. .. I am not comfortable being on front of the camera either. (more about being publicly recognisable). .. The downside to fame can clearly be illustrated by the late princess Diana. Purportedly the most photographed women in the world. .. I can remember an interview with Robby Williams talking about himself and success after signing an 80M contract with EMI. said that once you already have a successful album, to then be asked to make another with the bar set so high already, puts huge pressure to perform and deliver again. .. This demonstrates the complexities & demands of being famous. .. I certainly wouldn't want that level of fame. .. Mary. I would call you a creator 1st but an influencer 2nd. .. I think the term _influencer_ has been tarnished because the term has been used when people plug sponsors, and some sponsors have later been exposed as not legit or have negative publicity.. .. As you are a genuine muscian, you promote musically related products, and with your tutorials are genuinely _influencing_ people in their pursuit of musical knowledge. .. And because you say you always wanted to be a singer/song writer it may _feel_ easier for you (Because you may have partially excepted a level of relative fame ) when you get recognition for your work. . I do love these, I call them life coach videos. Gives real insight into what being a musician is all about. ..

[@aodhanofailain]

Mary, I wouldn't wish fame upon my worst enemy.

[@macy1066]

Also, the ultrarich have a very similar problem, and it warps them.

[@harrisonandrew]

You are absolutely spot on!

[@germangomez7704]

Yo creo que lo que mencionas es el nuevo "Underground", el cual siempre a existido, solo que ahora el interner Spotify, youtube etc lo hace mas accequible, generos como el Metal extremo nunca han sido "Mainstream" sin embargo como dices vive con sus bandas famosas festivales etc.

[@brucelittle3958]

Glad you are a woman with common sense! I enjoy your videos and fame will not bring happiness!

[@itslikethesamebutdifferent8020]

I always thought of online celebrities as KZbin celebrities.

[@jesusislukeskywalker4294]

😬 tavistock mind controllers

[@connecticutaggie]

Good comments Mary. This was an interesting contrast to another KZbinr with 2M subscribers was upset because someone had stalked her. I don't blame her from being upset but I do think there are a lot of CeWebrities that think the Internet insulates their private and public lives. In reality, the Internet can amplify obsession and a good creator and well produced video can present an idealized person/life that is easy to obsess over. The Internet makes it so much easier to find a person no matter how hard they have worked hiding their privacy.

[@rickharold7884]

Party on!

[@marknovak6498]

Niche can be good. glad you have found yours.

[@darrellhickey1990]

Mary seems to be Niche Charming.

[@stamasd8500]

I think you found your niche. You have a loyal following of true fans, and you get to retain your day-to-day life. Sounds pretty good to me. I only hope you don't 404 on us one day. :)

[@backwashjoe7864]

Maybe our fame is the friends we make along the way. 😊

[@RobinPalmerTV]

The rise to fame seems to happen so quickly these days. It's actually terrifying (as are some of the artist fanbases out there). Niche fame seems a lot healthier.

[@ohTHATaaronbrown]

nimcel - hah! that's an interesting term. i think i prefer creator, personally :)

[@pulaski1]

Niche fame is nothing new, and can be extreme. I recall reading of John Waite, an Englishman from Lancaster, when he was fronting supergroup "Bad English" (mostly Journey, with a different singer) he was a superstar in the US, but could visit his parents in Lancaster and wander around completely unrecognized.

[@urbanoramos5229]

Although all you say is true ,the ones who never had it , would like to taste for sure ,hear the fans shouting for you ,the crowds, only after a certain time when you can’t have a private life anymore you start to wonder how good it was ,that’s why people fame have to sides

[@clenbullard]

Not much has changed on this topic since Frank Sinatra was mobbed by the Bobby soxers except the public whining by flavor the month famous folk. Fame is toxic. Always was and will be. What may be getting worse is social media creating para social intimacy such that fans feel they have rights and artists have obligations spun of digital pheromones and pixie dust. I was discussing today with my music partner that one dreadful aspect for the really famous is the necessity of lip syncing one’s way through the most successful world tour because absolute perfection is expected and is impossible for all but the truly gifted, rehearsed and wise. Not really singing takes the joy out of it. But that’s the game. One thought: Neely is not niche famous (a damming by faint praise label). He is notable and I leave it to you to know the difference. Notability is preferable to fame. I leave it to you to know why.

[@dutchmcoven7292]

Well said. I do love a good essay. Makes one think.

[@MarkTaylorMusic]

Back when I was touring, I used to say I wanted to be "jazz famous"

[@richacello339]

And whatever did happen to Ariel McCleary? 10 million views of her cover of Havana, a star of the ukulele explosion of 2017, a move to Madrid, hundreds of videos, an album or two, and the last single tellingly called “People Pleasers,” and that was it.

[@DaDa-David]

Mary, Yes.

[@isakwatson9559]

Then what do we do now? When everything we've dreamed of is to be loved and adored by everyone. What happens now that maybe that dream was never real. It never mattered but we put so much energy into it. How do we find the will to change at all?

[@nickfletcher4132]

Its comforting to see you maturing in your critical thinking Mary. Comparing your early videos to now. I'm in an even nicher niche compared to you. But thats okay.

[@_GC_2006]

Amazing video!

[@wackerburg]

If you do not want that fame in its current version than just don't chase it. Noone is forced to be a musician. If you show your face to the public, especially here on YT or instatok or whatnot, you are a public face/figure then. How can you expect to NOT draw the attention to you? With most great aspects there will always be downsides. That being said, certain things are illegal and there are laws and possible measures to deal with them.

[@stevehoag232]

Great video, thank you Mary. I kept waiting for you to reference somewhere, in some way, the poignant lyrics of "Limelight" (Neil Peart, Rush). But maybe that's ancient history in 2024!

[@tj2375]

I really don't like "creator" because the idea it gives is that someone that does whatever, without any particular focus or art. Most "creators" aren't that.

[@harvey1954]

This bit about Susan is the same as Taylor Swift. You need to get some Laura Nyro discs.

[@BlackWipeout]

Great video, finally you have the best position in this fame thing. When you see all this big celebrities, they leaving in echo chamber... Are often disconnected from reality. They want to give us lessons that ring false because of their bubble. Ricky Gervais was right about them in the end. We saw that recently in USA. (Trump... Diddy... Rachel Zegler etc.) They need go touch some grass, right ? For "Internet famous", humm not so sure about this. You see also horrible thing happen with them like MrBeast or Jack Doherty.

[@jonathannewby5795]

Fame is a case of being careful of what you wish for.

[@ScoobieDee]

Well said . Also of you can make a career , a standard wage out of something you love … then you never work a day in you life …..

[@duanewelsh5611]

Large stadium concerts are not near as enjoyable as more intimate small venues. Being super famous does look like a curse to me.

[@polygonalmasonary]

She could shop in my home town of Warsop, we’ve never heard of her 🤔🥴🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧🙏♥️

[@darkstar223]

All I heard …was …wave good bye to a super model…..I’m in

[@Stephen_Lafferty]

I'm looking forward to seeing Sungazer in Bristol in March 2025!

[@artkincell]

I worry about fame on the other side. What happens to the artist's mental health when the fame they got, and now lost, sets in? It might be hard going back to ordinary, while tasting the extraordinary.

[@jamesonpace726]

You hit on it at the end, all you need do is disconnect. The world won't end, you won't go insane & everything changes in a moment. 'Course you'll need a pile of dough saved as well as "normal" friends & maybe, even, gasp, a job but it can be done....

[@joshuakarp2586]

Great video. I have NEVER wanted to be famous for all of the mentioned reasons.

[@spacemissing]

I have never wanted to be famous and the idea of desiring it is beyond my understanding. The life one must live after achieving immeasurable notoriety would not suit me at all.

[@davidstick9207]

I have found those that struggle with fame...also tend to be quite fake. They also hold on long after their 5 minutes is up. I have known many musicians in my life. 99% of them change...they become different from who they were. They weren't in music because of music anymore. They are in music for the fame. As if...that fixes them.

[@Rob1964b]

Would prefer humble following rather than flash in the pan super-stardom. Also there's a difference between success and fame.

[@rickc2102]

We've got to move these refrigerators We've got to move these color TVs

[@tedsmart5539]

Pretty sure if Kayleigh Rose Amstutz wanted to have a vacation my my town no one would pick up on who she is. Chappel Roan is a character with millions of followers...

[@williama-d6]

hmm I have asked that question to one of you British KZbinrs, and in the uk you have A list celebrity and B list celebrity down to Z list celebrity we used to talk about when we was growing up because in my borough there used to be a famous acting school called Anna shears

[@emanuellandeholm5657]

I'm gonna learn how to fly!

[@63sgjunior]

Relax and enjoy the journey create more music it's what you're made for and if we're being honest who couldn't love you?

[@Dragon_rls]

Fame makes a man bend over, fame makes a man swallow ( original lyrics).

[@maramé.r]

Some famous music ‘stars’ could be having coffee at the same table as me and I probably wouldn’t recognise them or perhaps know who they are (apart from the obvious superstars). Maybe I’m not so focused on appearance or just have poor facial recognition. I’d end up chatting in an unassuming way as if they were as ‘ordinary’ as me. Would probably know individuals I do follow on YT/social media however via niche familiarity

[@theelephant2887]

Yeah...that's why I left the Circus

[@grahamcooper2144]

Near-empty Hotel dining room in Manchester with a colleague. Only other people eating are Carlos Santana and another guy. My colleague wants to go over and say hello. I say no. He asks why. Coz the guy's just trying to have his dinner is why.

[@higgnbe]

Great video I think your level of celebrity would be perfect . I have a friend thats quite successful in Europe but when he comes home to the states he has a regular life and he loves it the internet has fulfilled warhols prediction that everyone will be famous at least 15 minutes and for some that's enough

[@godsinbox]

P.Diddy is the goat for sensible decisions