Character Creation in The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge)

[@HowtobeaGreatGM]

Thanks for watching! Let us know what you think of the character creation in the Dark Eye in the comments below! And if you're looking to create your own campaigns or nautical adventures, check out our easy to follow books on www.greatgamemaster.com

[@danmehring7880]

Thanks for spreading the news on The Dark Eye! I agree that character creation is a bit slow but as you mentioned Optolith makes it a breeze. I still think Ulisses should print a 4-8 page character creation cheat sheet (and hope they will eventually) with page numbers in the books. Also, as character creation takes time they aren't your typical 'James Humphrey Private Detective' as in Call Of Cthulhu that might go bonkers after seeing an Old One and bleeds to death after being shot once with cultists shotgun. You get attached to your character. And yes, you also collect AP adventure points after successful quests and start increasing skills, spells and gaining other advantages. As a GM I love the descriptions of cultures and professions but a player doesn't need to read everything. Just pick and roll (on optolith for example)

[@siph0r154]

Personally, I think it would be somewhat cinematic closure if you would end on that what most of us playing reference as its most unique selling point - The Lore and the world of Aventuria. This would also tie a neat little bow on this whole series, given the fact you started with stereotyping us for ease of entry. No heart feelings btw ^^ Showing off all the support and Books and *costs* that can occur could be a good next step imo. Granted, all you need to play is the Core Rules, but there is a *lot* that is not necessarily required, but certainly helpful, if you want to be High Counsellor (GM).

[@yeahjustme3680]

I am looking forward to the 12 hour lore video. 😂

[@zhufortheimpaler4041]

now that you dipped your toe into the non swimmer area of TDE 5.0..... lets toss you into the deep end of the pool with TDE 4.1, wich is the system most people in germany tend to play, as 5.0 is in many aspects dumbed down and the rule set is incomplete and dissatisfying. also most publifications for TDE in germany are still 4.1 material wich is slowly converted to 5.0, with some leaving a bad taste. like the aventurian arsenal, the full weapons, armor etc book being broken up into regional arsenals with more or less copy paste content, the region books like heart of the realm or shield of the realm, jungles of meridiana etc are all split up into smaller books etc etc. and the magic system is still very incomplete, missing at least 1/4th of the needed rules from prior editions.

[@siph0r154]

​@@zhufortheimpaler4041 I mean, come on, as someone who grew up with 4.1 I also feel the void left by the streamlining and basically reboot of the once-great complexity, but let us keep in mind that this should be an introduction and the only reason we are able to play the table mess that is 4.1 is that we play it for years and grew with its content :D There is no tutorial for 4.1. You either know how to play already or you die on the hill, trying to reach the summit ;) As long as Ulysses delivers and grows the content as dedicated as it was done in 4.1 days, over time we will get our game back with a more robust system that also people without 10 Points in Excel-Sheet-making can play at a satisfying Q3. And when it comes to the regional armories and stuff. We basically have the choice to wait ages until everything is transferred to the new ruleset or we get them bite-sized. They will never please everybody no matter the path they take.

[@mammutgamer]

Another German guy here. Is it just me that's always excited when foreigners talk about DSA? The world of Aventuria is all around you in Germany and suddenly there are people who don't know dick about it. Love the videos!

[@skeletonwar4445]

Not just you, bro. I also love seeing fans of other TTRPGs discover DSA :^) Though it made me aware of how much more complicated its character creation is, so people who don't enjoy making characters get a hit from that.

[@Curathol]

Nah. When you saw the first comments on the first part, it was pretty much exclusively Germans going bananas for some exploit of their collective favorite TTRPG. Including me ^^ ...

[@hanshanszoon]

I am interested in playing this game, at least to try it once, because I think it is very promising. I live in the Netherlands, but do you maybe know if there are online forums to find a group or something?

[@derminneritter7568]

@@hanshanszoon Have you heard of "Het Oog des Meesters" It is TDE in the Netherlands. If you speak this language, you surely will find groups there.

[@Curathol]

@@hanshanszoon dsaforum.de and orkenspalter.de. www.orkenspalter.de/index.php?board/338-niederlande/ here's the link to the orkenspalter-group finding-section for the Netherlands. Have fun ;-) ...

[@HTFYamagata]

Someone NOT from a german speaking country talking about the game system I played since I was 15? That deserves a sub and a thumb. Regardless of where you stand on "DSA"...i most definitely deserves sharing with a wider audience. Thanks for doing that!

[@BuckteethBannock]

A friend of mine who just got into TTRPGs started playing in two groups at the same time: In the D&D Group that I GM and in a friend's The Dark Eye Group. She told me that while she preferred the simpler and more straightforward game mechanics of D&D, TDE's ridiculously detailed Character Creation would make the actual roleplaying way easier for her as a beginner. She would spend about four hours with her GM creating her character, but then she really did know her character inside out, personality and all, while at D&D she knew pretty well what her fighter could do, but not what she was like. I had never thought about that and found it rather interesting. Anyway, I started playing TDE almost 25 years ago but have since lost touch, so I would love to see your take on the lore of Aventuria. Love your videos so far! Cheers from Germany!

[@MrHodoAstartes]

Nothing better than a robust chargen to build a detailed character. Although I have to say, I prefer GURPS for its simple elegance and universal applicability. My group switched to just running everything in GURPS and adding in rules and books as needed to build the world. Really only works with a truly dedicated GM who gets to the nitty gritty, though. But then you get to have characters with every personality, issue and ability imaginable. I had characters suffering from Autobrew Syndrome or an inability to process humor before.

[@DFYX]

Oh wow, didn't expect to see your name under a TDE video. You should really pick up TDE5. The softcover version is really cheap and a lot has changed (especially in comparison to TDE3) Overall I agree. TDE's rules can be overwhelming at first but at the same time they help you a lot with playing your character as a character instead of just a stereotype. Also, they are great to generate an interesting character even if you have no idea what to play. Just pick a random race, culture profession and maybe a few random skills and I guarantee, you'll get something that nobody in your party has ever played. I actually wrote a small program to generate ideas that way and got a traveling acolyte of Nandus, the god of wisdom who grew up in the rainforests of the south, far from civilization. He's super fun to play.

[@thodan467]

How the times´ve changed, in TDE4 Characters were cloned copies of each profession and in DnD you were free to decide

[@Curathol]

I'd really like to hear you talk about the lore. For a very simple reason: in both videos, I constantly watched with this feeling of "huh, I completely forgot, how very specific DSA is." I'd just love to hear someone unfamiliar with the whole world trying to bottle up the wonderful madness that is Das Schwarze Auge ...

[@nuri_silver6708]

I'd agree with that. I'm not totally familiar with the abyss that is DSA lore, but if you live in germany you can't really escape a little bit of knowledge if you like roleplaying in any form...

[@lancepickett5653]

My personal preference is that character creation is in depth and personalized, much like you described. I feel that such creation creates far more individual and "realistic" feeling characters. So far it sounds very much of the same bent as my "Homebrew" rules in attitude done differently but with the same intent so I am still very interested. I do believe that the next thing I would like to hear would be lore as it is the, after character creation, most telling part of the way a game feels.

[@preekja]

I am German and playing TDE for quite some years. The lore is vast and a lot is possible, the cultures/regions are super detailed and different. The only issue is that in theory everything is a little too small, the whole continent, if you take the old maps at face value. My group simply resized the world and we are fine to go.

[@zhufortheimpaler4041]

the lore of the game is also part of the rules. Magic and Divine powers once worked differently in the ruleset, certain types of professions, cultures and "races" are region locked. as example: even though you can play a wood-elf that has grown up in the southern jungles and is a mercenary, this is very unlikely and you would loose alot of the abilities innate to elven characters. elven magic is only usable as a cultural elf, but those are very laden with disadvantages like elven worldview, that excludes payment systems, religion, top down hierarchies etc, wich will very likely result in ALOT of trouble with society outside the elven commune. also due to the longer live span of elves, they learn slower than humans. resulting in elves starting at a higher base "power" in their specialised abilities and skills but from there progressing very slow in comparison to humans. only exceptions are visits home and learning stuff in magic communal rituals. But those will be more and more difficult to take part in, the longer the elf is away from home until he is rejected by the commune quasi exiling him/her. Other examples are Achaz (lizard men) who more or less only live in the southern jungles in either archaic aztec style cities or as tribal people. they will face massive discrimination by humans and will very likely have major difficulties due to the average temperature getting lower the further north you go until they fall into a kind of hibernation. Lore is vast but mostly inacessible for english users, as most is not translated

[@llhaught]

I've got the pocket sized Dark Eye which is very easy to read and enjoy but all the years of Adventuria are daunting. So much history

[@MrMeanSpeaks]

Larry if you have questions hit me up... you know this is one of my favs!

[@processseer6693]

Yeah but what most people forget is that the people in the world may and mostly are ignorant of their own world and history. So the players likewise don‘t actually need to know a whole lot. Easy fix is also to play adventures in a region where none of the player characters are from. However, the DM does indeed need to know a lot but let‘s be honest, that‘s their/our jam. Reading useless books about non-existing worlds. I often joke I know more about the fake biology, geography and history than the one in our real life. 🤓

[@olafmeiner4496]

i would have liked (and expected) more example characters in this video, just to see what influence certain choices have. And how many different possibilities there are to create "a fighter". You can be a "certified" warrior who visited one of the martial academies and is bound by their code of honor. Or a tribal warrior from one of the less civilised corners. Or a knight (in training) sworn to your noble lord. Or a member of the martial arm of a religious order, sworn to protect all believers. Or just a farmboy who learned to use the glaive in the village's milita and inherited his dad's old leather armor. Or a soldier, or a mercenary, or a graduate from a private fencing school, or a swashbuckling pirate, or a viking raider, or... Often it is possible to give all these characters pretty similar sets of attributes and skills. But because of their origin and cultural background and association with established factions, they are distinct in ways Fighters in D&D often aren't.

[@intothenothingness6040]

Not to mention the different mages. Just a rather simple example is the elemental based mage of Draconia vs Rashdul. While in Draconia the elements and associated elemental manifestations are kind of prayed to and the balance is seen as holy (slight exageration but not too much) the mages of Rashdul are more driven by power and comanding the elements. And those are "just" the subclasses of the wizard (to use a dnd comparision). There are the dwarven specific mages called Geode, the druids and I believe some witches are able to call upon the elements in a simmilar way but have vastly different views on it, even though mechanicaly they are doing the same. Same goes actually for the fighter too, with their academys. (I hope our beloved GM here still checks the comments^^)

[@Knopey]

Let me confess something real quick: I have never created a The Dark Eye character without using a character creation software since after 3rd edition (we are now at TDE 5e). I think character creation is both the strongest and weakest part of the game system, as it allows you do create e x a c t l y who you want to play, but is a tediously long (though enjoyable) process. It is the most intricate and time-consuming character creation process I have ever encountered (save for Hero System perhaps). BUT super rewarding. I'd like to see a GM support video so everyone eager to try out the game can jump right in. Viel Spaß! :)

[@skeletonwar4445]

I'm one if those people who enjoy creating characters, and I gotta say, I *love* the Dark Eye system. I've spent countless hours just thinking about, balancing and creating different characters. Though, we also play a very lethal game in our round, so having lots of characters (who constantly die) is perfect for me.

[@Curathol]

I absolutely agree. What I love is this: when you get the hang of it, it feels like creating your character and creating his backstory become the very same thing. When you think to yourself: "you know what? I think he sings quite a lot, he's a happy guy. I should put a bit into singing. And maybe a bit of dancing and ... I don't have anything left to spend. Alright, so he can't dance *yet*. I'll find a way, why he starts to learn dancing. Where's the next Rahja-temple!?"

[@Knopey]

Somehow only four PCs have died in the span of ten years in our group. Apparently we were doing something wrong. xD

[@Curathol]

@@Knopey *silent chuckle* Well, you don't create a new character, when your old one just died. You create a new character, when you're afraid, your old one is about to die. Or at least I do. And for me as a GM it's neat measurement of tension. The more new character concepts my players show me, the more intense the adventure was for them. Rule of thumb: I GMed a brilliant adventure, when every player shows me three new ideas for their hero ... since they are bound to be dead next session ...

[@PeterSFam]

The free utility Optolith is a must. if not for Optolith character creation becomes an exercise in accounting.

[@ameliafeyparsons4816]

Good thing that app exists. Also I'd love to see Lore next

[@gesamtszenario]

I've played DSA for decades and honestly haven't made a character by hand in years. DSA 1 to 3 were simple enough to just do on paper. For 4, 4.1, and Myranor, there is Helden-Software. For 5 (including the English edition), there is Optolith, the tool you mentioned. I love making characters, but it's the background and roleplay I love,not balancing and min-maxing, so the software comes in handy.

[@Alefiend]

Lore please, I guess. It's starting to look like this system really is too deeply intertwined with its setting to easily separate, given that culture is built into the complex chcracter creation rules.

[@skeletonwar4445]

Not that much, the culture you choose is mainly for roleplay reasons. They only give minimal stat bonuses and have very little impact in gameplay. They also sometimes act as prerequisites/gates for specific variants of professions. Unless you're playing a very specific character, their culture doesn't really matter.

[@GalliadII]

if Guy does not want to make videos about the lore, I would redirect you to the channel OrkenspalterTV, they have a video series about the World of Aventuria in both German and English language.

[@togamid]

If I remember corectly, you don't need to get the skills associated with a culture, it's just prepackaged for convenience. If you have your own world with your own cultures, it wouldn't be that much of a hurdle to just skip the culture step.

[@psiphyre]

Thanks for the rundown of character creation (& for the link!). Most useful! As for the next video, I'd like to know more about the setting, so Lore. Please & thank you!

[@gregorlangemeier4116]

I'm so glad I never had to do manual character creation. The online tools really help to understand what you need/can do.

[@eternalmec3777]

Nice video. Good thing you mentioned the Optolyth because that thing has helped me create all but my first character and it would have taken me much longer to create them if it werent for the software. Btw. your pronunciation of "das schwarze Auge" is surprisingly good.

[@vesperiadragon3221]

You said no one really yelled at you for your last video on this subject, and I feel a little bad about that now...so... I LOVE THIS CHANNEL AND THE WORK THAT YOU DO!!

[@ladyd.705]

I mean you can make a pastry-chef (They even have special skills for that) xD I made a librarian It's so much fun xD And "Optolith" really is a blessing :D And I would love to hear from you about lore^^

[@thodan467]

Yes you could , as well as in Gurps,

[@Julien-Limosino-87]

with a friend we saw some profession players never do like farmer, slaves ect they have quite nice skills scores! Like I can play that in DSA, in Warhammer? Never!

[@LetsPlayCrazy]

Quick annotation from someone who plays dsa (tde) only: There is a software in german called "heldensoftware" which automates the character creation to such an easy extent that you can do it within 5 minutes if you wanted to. It is a life saver and a must have for everyone who wants to play it.

[@Apfeljunge666]

ich habs mal gegooglet und das scheint es nur für DSA 4.1 zu geben, nicht für 5e. Oder hab ich was übersehen?

[@LetsPlayCrazy]

@@Apfeljunge666 dsachargen(.)de/ Sollte das sein was du suchst. Aber ich spiele 4.1 weil es einfach die beste Version ist #versionwar :D

[@Apfeljunge666]

@@LetsPlayCrazy ja gut aber in dem video gehts ja um DSA5. Danke auf jeden fall.

[@kornrat8284]

Definitively Lore. Lore is in fact the core of TDE. I mean: yes you can plan your world, but then you could just use other rules. So only when you really like the rules (wich apperantly many German players don‘t) you would do that. I really like the system how it is, but I see the point of the critics that say that for example fights take too long.

[@barbarossarotbart]

There are many who like the world but do not like the current rules!

[@kenninast]

First of all: I like how you are objective: "I don't like to count a lot when making a character, but if you do like that, this system is perfect for you!" Then: "You start with 8 on each attribute, so why don't they just make it 0 points value and change the begin-AP's?" I think that's a valid point you make there. Good one! :) You should review Optolith in detail! It's an awesome tool! Both for generation as for raising stats later!

[@MasterOverSpace]

I play in an 8-year DSA Campaign (still playing weekly), those were our first DSA Characters ever, so character creation would have been a hassle, because as you said it is kinda hard the first few tries, but we played many Oneshots and other campaigns and now I just know the cost of Skilling an Attribute to 10, 11, 15, etc. Our DM however also made a custom character calculator, that calculates everything and i mean everything in LibreOffice, I think its around 2300 Lines long and prints out a perfectly calculated character, fill in everything flavor and BOOM character Done. This sheet helped us all in creating the characters making it way easier and way more understandable. It still took around an hour to go through every option for one character, but now after i created around 100 DSA characters i spend those 1000 APs in a matter of minutes, its very hard to get into but when you know everything that you have to cross-reference, and don't actually have to cross-reference anymore the steps are easy as hell, as you said. This system is actually the system that brought me into the world of TTRPGs and i stayed since then. This campaign ist still going as i said, i DM two campaigns (those are D&D however), play in antoher D&D Campaign and another DSA campaign, and i can't express my gratitude enough for this game and my friend and his father (who is our DM for the 8y campaign for bringing me into this world), and I love it that now you also give the game a look, thank you for that.

[@neilevans3937]

GM Support, I have this game but have been reluctant to run it for my friends and would love some tools to use

[@lucysky1199]

There is avespfade.de, it uses the german city names, but its a wayplanning tool. There is also Dere Globus, an add-on for google earth, also in german.

[@cacklebarnacle15]

The Dark Eye (3rd edition) was my very first TTRPG. It holds a special place in my heart. I love the character creation they implemented in the 4th edition. The versatility of the professions enable us to build a party soley focused on political intrigue and city settings if we are bored by the 'standard' adventure party and dungeon crawling. Especially the advantages/disadvantages make the charcters unique. I played my blind former magical apprentice in a group with a knight with a lisp and other oddities. Or my travelling cook who wants to learn all the culinary secrets of the cultures she find along the way, who is just really good with knifes (and actually a spy for her home country). I love that the magical schools are usually not focused solely on damage or healing. There are magical schools with a heavy leaning to craft based magic for example. Fireball? What is that? I can sew our enemies clothes together in unfortunate places though, if that helps? A whole magical profession focused on the magic of dancing? YES! The triple roll for abitilies is pretty awesome. In my groups we tend to discuss wether in a certain situation one attribute should supplement another. I.E. you are in a dark room trying to find a secret door by touch. Surely Dexterity can be used to substitute another attribute here. And in case of a failure or a critical failure the description of hooooow you fail can depend on wich of the rolls you tanked. I.E. trying to magic a poison out of a person, you botched your sagacity roll? You totally messed up remembering the incantation of that spell and instead of cleaning the blood of poison...you cleaned the poison of all blood. woops. Or maybe plant lore as an example, SGC/DEX/CON, sgc fail: you do not recognize the plant or mistake it for another, dex fail: you found the plant but accidently destroyed the important parts while harvesting, con fail: man, running through this area sure is exhausting, let's take a break yeah?

[@nwood1283]

Hi, I would really appreciate a short run through of a session. Or something similar so that we can see the game in play and gain an understanding for how the game flows. Thank you for the great content

[@danc407]

GM support on how to establish a game from start finish.

[@wombatv]

Dangerous Journeys/Mythus (by Gary Gygax post-TSR) has an amazingly complex character creation process... it's something else. ☺

[@Wolfphototech]

I love Character creation . I have infinite ideas for characters and i love researching stuff . An i love coming up with ways to optimize features but also balance them & create synergies in abilities and other features .

[@Punintelligent]

I'm the type of person who would enjoy that type of character creation, but also be very glad there is an app to help you keep track of things. Seems interesting to poke around and try things with. Anyway, I'd say GM tools next. While this living, changing setting sounds fun, it doesn't help me understand the game itself.

[@kenproffitt]

Thanks, Guy. I hope that you do a play through! GM tips would be great.

[@discard-dead]

I remember playing the computer rpgs for DSA and was always frustrated why my spells or skills or attacks would fail so often, but now I know why haha

[@elowaywhite477]

Please do lore next. I thought that as a forever GM of multiple systems I would want tips provided for GMing, but rules serve to carry the story. An understanding of the concept the game was built around would be incredibly valuable.

[@fletcherkristian1298]

Hi, nice video. I know character creation is hard in the beginning. But only your imagination is the limit and I love it.

[@WarThrawn2]

The Lore. Its a big....really big World to explore!

[@superbeast8938]

I love the way you explained it

[@derkrischa3720]

GM Tools sound intresting! Don't worry about the complexity. I'm a civil enineer and after somewhat of half a year of playing start to get behind the finer details. But the system allows you to tailor your character specificly to your liking or to represent the story of the PC. It's a trade between simplicity and micro management. Speaking of which: you could look into/review Shadowrun, a magical cyberpunk setting with cyborg-orc fighters, tycoon dragons and sentient AI. A cool setting and a rulesystem i contourted for Steampunk, Fantasy and SiFi games, I think you could be interested in it.

[@JanLegris]

Hey, I got what I asked for :) Char gen... (this is reminding me of a few games I've played: Rolemaster 2nd Ed., Eclipse Phase, to name a couple)

[@Twelwan]

I appreciate your creativity but you really should give the official world a shot. A living world that has evolved over decades (real world time) and still is evolving... it's so rich and well defined that it feels very real. It's just more detailed than what a single GM can write/create in a reasonable amount of time. Only disadvantage - as you said - is that you have to limit your most crazy ideas a bit, because the world is so thoroughly defined it doesn't leave too much space for that. Yet... creating your own timeline where some events happen differently is always an option.

[@gabrielmarcilio666]

Hi Guy, thanks for all the awesome content. My personal preference for a next video is GM Tips/tools. There are a lot of sources that can be checked for lore (e.g the Aventuria Almanac), so a video more focused on GM needs would more helpfull (and original!)

[@RIlianP]

I really like Traveler creation system as it creates more of a bound with the character you create than just cross reference tables constantly, might look at that next.

[@kermitpocanowski1]

Oh yeah, TDE character creation,,, Since 2010 or so I always use software for that. In TDE 4.1 you could spent one or more evenings by calculating your stats over and over again. Although I liked the process of diving deep into forming up your chars personality and abilities to find out or determine who is is, was or might become, the sheer amount of work often repelled potential new players. The Heldensoftware for 4.1 version and the dark aid for TDE 5 really cheered up my PC and NPC-creation again. Thanx to the developers, by that way. TDE 5 creation of chars seems to speed up things a little, thats fine for me. Currently I am planning to switch to TDE 5 with my group, so I probably find out more soon.

[@benjaminvonwerdt7955]

Always glad to see DSA getting more love. I don't know if it's possible for you to do, but I'd love to see you compare DSA 5 with DSA 4.1. I'm learning a lot already from you showing DSA 5 but I'd love to hear your opinion on 4 or 4.1. If that's not something you can/want to do, lore is always very fun to look into.

[@Curathol]

I don't think, DSA 4.1 is really available in English. Also ... those, who never played DSA already think, it's a super complex, hard to understand game. We can't let them know, that DSA 5 is actually the dumbed down "easy for beginners" version ...

[@benjaminvonwerdt7955]

@@Curathol Fair, fair. Since Guy's German sounded so good when he said the original name of the game, I thought maybe he can read the rules in the original german (but is using the English translation for the video because why wouldn't he?). And true, hearing about 4.1 might scare off people. I actually had a bit of a brainfart and thought the first video was about 4.1 until he mentioned clearly written rules. That's when I realized it couldn't possibly be that wonderful mess of a rule system

[@tengwean6182]

Thanks for sharing this. A few clarifications: Cultures don’t cost anything, it’s a background thing you define and it gives you your native language. But every culture has a package which you can take if you want. That’s what you were talking about, as far as I can tell. And you don’t have to pay for the Attributes being an 8 minimum. Otherwise you’d need to pay at least 960 AP for every character and then you’d have basically nothing left. Or be at -60 for the lowest EL ;-)

[@melissawolkow5273]

i like the idea that others build my character - that would be funny nice idea :D

[@jakkos3346]

I want lore, but I'd be happy to see gm support if lore is out voted :)

[@vendolis]

A short comment... the normal level for character generation is experienced with mean 1100 points. Other levels are more for special groups. And I am kind of pained by the use of “abilities” in the video. The base stats are Attributes and the book is a little problematic on the skills. In some sections it uses the word “Abilities” to cover skills/spells/liturgies.

[@freddaniel5099]

My moto is "don't leave your most inspired work on the character sheet". The actual role-playing at the table is the thing that gives the game its name. Chargen and leveling up is probably my least favorite part of any system. Hence I am happiest with quick, easy and randomly rolled characters. YMMV Thanks for wading through this quagmire of a chargen and reminding me why my friends complain about creating PCs for TDE. My experience has been TDE plays pretty well once you sit down and dive into the setting - which I find engaging and quite full of potential. Cheers!

[@henningb9815]

Fair revue. Make an caracter by hand ist possible but i won't do it again. Useing the PDF sheet I realy like to create chars.

[@lucasterable]

Accountants will particularly enjoy the character creation in The Dark Eye! :P

[@lukasmorn3812]

May I just say, Impressive feat to keep this video below 20 minutes and very watchable. All of my players have been using online tools for character creation, this one I did not know of, so it might be quite handy. To be fair, all my players also use DnD-Beyond for character creation in 5e DnD, but we have not been playing for a long time in either system. I will be happy with both lore and gm tools.. I don't think I still need much of either, but it will be interesting to see what your look at those topics is. Also, there is always room for improvement.

[@MrFusselig]

Yay! The Charater Creation Video :D

[@michaellehner3339]

My vote for the next video would be the lore and how you see it. I have spent a lot of time in it, saw the world change over the decades and so on. I am rather curious on how somebody with plenty of RP experience but not yet in touch with the lore sees it. (Although i personally don't get the "discard all the world" attitude. You usually don't need to create a whole world to be able to tell a good story. Already having a well made world at hand actually, at least in my eyes, makes it much easier to focus on the story at hand. )

[@ThomasCoquery]

definitively, Aventuria and its lore need a presentation

[@LambertBehnke]

Hello champion, Another great video and I believe you have been quite fair on the game. Personally I would like to hear your take on GM Support :) Thank you for doing this.

[@Wolfphototech]

Please cover more "The Dark Eye" , "Pathfinder" and other Table top games .

[@dillondownes6582]

I would love to see videos on lore/gm support and is love to see a live play through like with torg eternity

[@frankharzer6224]

I vote for Lore

[@AlexBermann]

Honestly, the character creation is very simple if you did it once and especially if you use the program. It also is good practice because you buy skills you get further down the line in the exact same way. Fourth edition was different. Just an example of one of my characters. Ludewig is a wizard from Andergast. Let's say he wants to improve on his basic damage spell Ignifaxius. The spell is on 11 and has a complexity of C. But hey, Ignifaxius is one of his house spells, so he increases it as if the complexity is one less - but I am just getting started. Ludewig also learned a special ability that expresses his expertise in destructive magic - and that pushes the complexity by another level. So is it according to the colomn A? Not exacty. Ludewig also has a good memory, so he only pays 3/4 to increase a skill. Also, I have to consider how he learns the spell. If he has no tutor and just practices, the complexity goes up two levels, if he has a tutor, it goes down one level and if he trains with his peers, it stays the same. Basically, that system teached me to embrace digital tools.

[@SuperUnnamedplayer]

The Character Creation is kind of crazy in DSA, I remember min/maxing so hard that I could use the elven language and one-hit-kill some of the bosses our GM made for our low level characters. Although it also almost goes into the unnecessary territory with some of the abilities, like the ability to tell the time, no matter where you are or the ability for mages to do some simple tasks like flipping pages in a book or holding a cup of tea without using their hands. Is it fun and probably something a character could have? Sure. Is it necessary for 90% of your stories? No.

[@zhufortheimpaler4041]

depends on the setting i guess. DSA/TDE is not a combat focussed game but very social interaction heavy.

[@MrKezzerdrix]

So... It is a class free system? I'm interested. Very Interested!

[@skeletonwar4445]

Yes, there's no classic class system. Instead, the profession, skills and advantages/disadvantages you choose dictate your playstyle. It allows for more niche and diverse character types, but realistically (if you wanna minmax) falling into the typical classes gets you the best results. Like sure, you *can* play a Barbarian Orc Medic with stealth spells and +15 in Maths and Board Games, but at the cost of being weaker than a classic warrior-type barbarian orc. Though, if you don't care about minmaxing and just want to play that kinda weird character, it's great for that.

[@Thotlp]

To be fair after 2 years of expirience with the The Dark Eye: The noncombat characters or characters wich are better in non combat than combat are the most fun, Right now i have a whole kampagne with only a mage or more a student who learns magic wich can only use Iliusion magik (and isn good at it by coice) I think the best kampagne i ever played

[@skeletonwar4445]

@@Thotlp Yeah, one of my most memorable campaigns was when I played an arrogant, snobby, rich kid in the "Good-For-Nothing" profession whose father had forced him out of the estate until he found "a decent job or a good wife." Combat consisted of me running away screaming, crying or hiding and I couldn't pass a skillcheck for the life of me, but good god was that fucker fun to play.

[@olafmeiner4496]

@@skeletonwar4445 Me too. I had the most fun with comic relief characters, like my goblin rat catcher or the Tulamidian juggler/street rat who eventually got himself a red parrot and a trained monkey wearing a vest. (He never got the chance to steal a flying carpet). Seeing them blunder around and fail was fun. As were their crazy antics. This was a completely different experience from my supposedly heroic characters who were meant to win. @MrKezzerdrix yes, after you chose the profession, you are free to invest all new AP (adventure points, similar to XP) in any skill or attribute or talent you want. Like others before me said: Nobody is stopping you from putting all your AP into pottery. Whether that is a wise choice is another question. Personally I like to train the skills my characters used during their adventures so their growth feels more organic and plausible and the numbers on the character sheet actually represent what that character has learned and experienced. When the goblin rat catcher somehow ended up with the crew of a smuggler's ship, I invested some points into sailing. Was he a any use in a fight? Not really. Was he useful at all? Hell, yes! And because he was treated more as a mascot to the crew rather than a full person, he got a way with a lot of mischief.

[@ThomasCoquery]

Class free, level free, alignment free, armour class free, yeepee !!

[@AteasDhavar]

I don't think this game would work very well in my current group. I think it would be a bit too confusing for certain individuals. But I may pick it up anyway. I'm slightly interested to read more for myself. On a similar note, I wonder if you've heard of a game called "TriTen". Named for how the mechanics work. It's another TTRPG that is advertised as having a high focus on character customization.

[@bogaty72]

I think the old FGU games (Aftermath, Bushido, and especially Freedom Fighters) had the most complex character creation I’ve seen. At any rate, I’d like to see a video demonstrating combat and magic use in detailed examples, utilizing the additional rules from the Armory, Almanac, Companion, Magic book, etc.

[@BanjoSick]

Rolemaster Standard System had the the most complex I ever encountered.

[@DarinMcGrew]

It sounds similar to the points-based system of GURPS, combined with the career-based system of Traveler, combined with extra tables just for fun.

[@DarinMcGrew]

I'll take Guy's word for it: "If I hadn't found the online app, I probably would have said, 'Just build me one, or give me a pre-gen.' I really would have." I've never felt that way about GURPS character generation.

[@denzelpanther240]

@@DarinMcGrew the choices in tde5 core rules really arent that complicated, gurps is more difficult.Guy Seems just a bit uninterested in building a character

[@DarinMcGrew]

To some degree, this is academic. I have no interest in the swords and sorcery genre, and TDE seems anchored to it. But even choosing stats in TDE is apparently complicated enough that there are charts of pre-vetted stats combinations (with their AP costs) that are guaranteed not to violate all the other rules. The TDE points system alone seems more complicated than the GURPS points system, and then there's a career system layered on top of that.

[@TheNetterRiese]

maybe take a look at the weapons and monsters in the beastiary and the armory which are also intertwined with the lore.

[@12sephiroth]

Holy macaroni! The character creation changed heavily compared to 3th edition ^^ BUT: i really do like the point buy system, 'cause first of all everyone is level, as there is no luck involved. And apparently this system also changes one thing I disliked in 3th edition: it used to be like this: Either you are a spellcaster or you are not. Also the thing was, spellcasters where really underwhelming in the early levels and overtook fighter classes quite heavily later on... Pro GM support. (as I kinda know the lore already ^^)

[@skeletonwar4445]

Well, that's still _kinda_ there with the "Spellcaster" advantage that all mages *have* to pick. Though there's also Half- and Quarter-Spellcaster if you just wanna yeet out the occasional low level spell. But without any of those advantages, you're still unable to cast magic.

[@denzelpanther240]

@@skeletonwar4445 There are no half or quarter casters anymore in 5th ed

[@Draegn]

I have read that The Dark Eye and Shadowrun 4th ed use the same chargen system. A friend had wanted to play The Dark Eye, however did not due to the gamers throwing three books at her and telling her to read all of them first.

[@AlexBermann]

That probably was fourth edition. Both 4.0 and 4.1 had a core rulebook that became completely obsolete with the other rulebooks and didn't manage to capture what made TDE good. So you ended up with several rule tomes that all were kinda essential. As much as I love that edition, the presentation wasn't good at all.

[@hannespaulsen]

He really made the raising of skills sounds more complicated then it really is. To raise a skill by one point you have to pay Adventure Points corresponding to the difficulty (A to D; E is for special cases like raising your life point total). A is 1, B is 2, C is 3, D is 4. This is always the case until the skill reaches 12, after 12 the cost rise by the difficulty each time you buy another point in the skill. 12 to 13 for an A skill costs 2 AP, 13 to 14 costs 3 AP for an A skill an so on. 12 to 13 for a C skill costs 6 AP, 13 to 14 costs 9 AP for a C skill. The difficulty of a skill is noted on your caracter sheet next to the skill, so its really not that difficult.

[@derminneritter7568]

Wish for next Week: The World of Aventuria

[@great_lord_of_madness3507]

2:45 Try DSA 4.0/4.1 and say that again. DSA 5 ist Kindergarten compared to that procedure. For each progress U needed a specific amout of EXP to spend on a progession matrix from A to H with 30 lines. On the other hand, the characters were also very complex and so the ways they treated problems.

[@beowulftrondesson3117]

I'm playing TDE Edition 4.1 (which I believe has not been translated), and it seems that the 5th Edition you're reviewing is a streamlined version of that. Therefore' I'm not going to hesitate applying my experience to this edition also. That being said, while the mechanics are represented well, I feel you kinda missed the subtle strengths for the game itself that derive from the mechanics. The TDE character creation allows for very different characters even without utilizing clerical or magical abilities, and since the world of Aventuria also has a relatively low quota of mages and clerics (by general fantasy standards, and certainly in comparison to D&D), this allows for a campaign that has a very historical feel to it. My troupe has several players with experience in medieval reenactment, and we love utilizing this feature in particular. On the other hand, if you wish to run a camapign with magical characters only, these allow for the same amount of diversity. ...And you can combine these features into unqiue characters, like the one whose name I'm using here: A non-viking mage, capable only in spells of the clairvoyance, communication & metamagic types, who is absolutely capable of holding his ground in mundane combat (cause he can't inflict magical damage), though obviously not excel at the battelfield. He sees himself as a lorekeeper/researcher in the field, and that path is what I mostly developed later, along with a handy combination of mundane and magical skills for fieldwork. Obviously, the same is true for races: having a troupe of a single race poses little risk of redundant characters, even without communication between players prior the creation. Actually, any race but humans are rare to some extent in Aventuria (reinforcing the historical ambience). Where TDE might fall flat by current standards is racial diversity regarding the representation of IRL-minorities. Aventuria was never meant to represent our world (as it is only a single and not even big continent on the planet of Dere), and black (humans) are a small minority in it's demographic while asians are completely missing, and european medieval culture really dominates the continent. I don't see much of a problem in tweaking the world towards the racial diversity (but it would require that). Aventuria has been conceived in 1980's germany, and the then-time demographic of germany may well be reflected in this respect, so I don't consider a failure - but something worth mentioning anyway.

[@perjohanaxell9862]

Seems like a very open system I like that. In d&d I allways get stuck with "yes that's what I want, but not quite". Also seems like the app is more or less nessesary at least if you're new. When I ask for character creation videos I'm mostly interested in what you can do with it. Dose it allow the player to be creative, what's the feeling of the characters you create. What are the limitations? The mekanics are less important to me. Just a thought if you ever does this again.

[@cyrus405]

In Dsa you can do basically every character you can imagine, you can take even base classes like barber, merchant, Smith and so on you can even build up your character without a class sheet spending every point the way you want and create your own class. Also spells if your character has magic he can literally learn every spell there is you just need to find someone to teach you.

[@AlexBermann]

You don't really need the program. You can do it all with a character sheet, a pen and a calculator or a piece of scrap paper. As for the question of "what can you do"? The limitations are mostly due to your caps and your limited experience points. Some special abilities are impossible to get from the start because they have cracy prerequisites and you can't really create a wizard who also is a blessed one. Furthermore, wizards and blessed ones tend to be very expensive professions, so you often don't have many points for customization whereas more mundane characters have a lot of wiggle room. That said, this isn't a big deal because you can always learn things later - you spend experience points to "level up" just as you did during character creation. The professions do have a very wide range. You can play a wizard just as well as a simple begger. Advantages and disadvantages give you a lot of room to bring quirks to your character sheet and let them have mechanical consequences - and you do get something in return. With these advantages and disadvantages and the broad scattering of skills, you have characters who feel more like people than like expressions of an archetype. That said, if you want to play more "high fantasy", TDE puts very strict limits on you that basically make your character concept more "low fantasy". As for how absolute limitations go: with GM permission, you can easily create your own profession, but because they still function by the same rules, you can't really deviate from the style of the game much.

[@perjohanaxell9862]

Sounds cool thank you! What I meant with needing the app is when I'm new I tend to go back and forth a lot trying out different alternatives and it coold be a bit annoying if there is a lot of options. Anyhow sounds like a very cool game.

[@AlexBermann]

@@perjohanaxell9862 I know what you mean, but in my experience, using the books and the manual character creation style is that you look at each step more closely. If I choose a profession that way, I'm very aware on the bonuses it gives me because I do copy them. And before I actually commit to it, I do check the appropriate alternatives. Advantages and disadvantages are similar - I check up my list several times because I wonder what to get rid of because of an option I want. Also, you can mix up the steps to a decree. For example, I tend to have one or two special abilities or skills in mind when creating a character. I then take those before advantages and disadvantages, so I actually have the experience for the things I really need. If I'm really struggling, I substract a bonus I don't care about from the profession (with GM permission) to get some wiggling room. Another example: I created a character who basically quit his magic apprenticeship. But if you don't take at least "experienced" experience level, your bonuses exceed your caps and the profession is so expensive that you can't really afford it. So, I decreased everything in a way that it was below cap, scratched a few special abilities and reduced the costs to an appropriate level while doing it. I even had enough points to invest in streetwise and lying to express that the character used their skills for crime after his master kicked him outm That was possible because there was no app that applied the profession.

[@TheKlikluk]

@@perjohanaxell9862 And he doesn't really get into the advantages/disadvantages. Its one of the best part about DSA in my opinion because it really ecourages you to think about your characters personality, give them little quirks and can really kickstart the RP aspects. But yeah - the app is neat. The only thing is that because DSA allows you SOOOOO much freedom with the characters you want to create there are a lot of options which can be overwhelming at first.

[@TheL4W]

Sorry, Guy, you got something wrong. The 8 points for each attribute come with no costs at all, only attribute points above that have to be paid with adventure points (AP).

[@skeletonwar4445]

Really? I'm pretty sure that you also have to pay for the base 8 as well, unless they changes something in the newest edition.

[@Xorgrim]

@@skeletonwar4445 German Rulebook page 43: Alle Helden haben zu Beginn der Heldenerschaffung 8 Punkte in allen Eigenschaften. Jeder ZUSÄTZLICHE Eigenschaftspunkt muss mit Abenteuerpunkten bezahlt werden. Translation: All Characters start the attribute generation process with 8 points for each attribute. Every ADDITIONAL attribute point has to be paid for by using AP (Adventure Points).

[@HowtobeaGreatGM]

You are correct. It is worded oddly. 64 points have already been spent. It is referencing the 64 out of 100 total. The use of points indicated to me that it was AP points, not the 100 cap total.

[@skeletonwar4445]

@@Xorgrim Oh wow, I guess I'll go spend those extra AP on a bunch of characters then :D

[@Cindolintoe]

I'm a lot more interested in GM tools than the lore. The lore and how it's made is fascinating for the Dark Eye, but I much prefer making my own settings.

[@Knopey]

Just be aware that the system is tricky to detach from Aventuria. I mean, it's possible - as always - but not worth the effort, I believe. The ingame world already has everything a mid-fantasy setting would need. Extra bonus: there is even a google earth plugin for Aventuria with built-in direct links to a dedicated wiki. It's cool :D

[@Sofus.]

Lore I am interested in hearing your opinion on difficult topics such as the slavery nations.

[@soulclone6]

Lore ! Please. And thank you !

[@Sanyaenyenwa]

Wow, this has become far more complex than is was some 25 years ago when I last played the Dark Eye. Back then it wasn't point buy, everything was dice roll based. For example to increase a skill you had to roll above the skill value using 2D6 (or 3D6 once the skill value reached 10). With only a limited number of attempts each time you leveled up, you had to choose carefully which skills you wanted to try to improve. Do you really want to spend attempts at getting that one skill from 17 to 18, knowing full well that your chances of succeeding are quite low, or would you rather invest those attempts into something where you're likely to succeed? There were no absolute caps for anything, beyond what was mathematically possible, but there were limits to how much you could improve a skill each level. Combat skills, for example, could only be raised by 1 per level, knowledge skills by 3 and almost anything else by 2. Off topic for this channel, but there are also the Drakensang computer games (Drakensang and Drakensang: River of Time, *not* Drakensang Online, which is only associated by name) from a couple of years ago, which use the Dark Eye rule system and world setting and are well worth a look at if you're into old school computer RPGs. I would love to hear your take on the lore.

[@murgel2006]

Well, very fast and nice overview. Basically, I do agree and also suggest to use a tool. Either the named one, Optolith, or one of the many self-filling character sheet, Excel sheets etc. from the community. TDE has changed massively from where it started when it comes to character creation. It used to be fairly inflexible up to and including 3re edition Easily comparable to D&D but with even more restriction on what a specific race could choose as "Class". Whenever I encounter people who are more used to D&D I like to explain the specific outlook on character creation which TDE has used for quite some time now: A being is defined by its cultural background not by its species. Basically, that means it is more important to who you are that you are french than that you of Slavic descent. Species can be fairly important in a physical sense but that is it. Frankly, I think the character creation process feels quite natural to many European players as it is mainly based on European cultures from the Dark Ages to the Renaissance and is based on the traditions of those days. It is something most learned about in school and thus feels natural. Also, many things are not based on choices but on gifts. ie. in D&D being a Mage is a matter of learning and anybody could choose to do so. In TDE you need to have (buy) the needed genetic setup for your character. This is based in European culture as well, a pact with something horrible (devil, demon etc.) could give you powers but you could also just have the genes but you need one of that selection. (Harry Potter's world is also like that) Anyway, my tipps: 1. use a tool 2. TDE allows you to play anything you want within a "realistic" band. That has, IMO, become one of the best features of the game.

[@DTDreyer98]

Hey guys, could anyone tell me how the video is called where he describes how a BBEG works. He said something about " The evil guy wants this, by doing this, but he needs this to accomplish it." . It was a helper for a better BBEG.

[@danielhofig8429]

Do the Real strenght of the dork eye and make a video about the law and the history of aventuria.

[@FantasKanal]

My favourite thing in DSA caracter creation is that you can get more points to spend by giving yourself flaws. I am fast, to fast, but blind and deaf. So expect me to go very fast... into the next ditch.

[@ThomasCoquery]

I would have preferred a video with à more concrete character creation following the creation of one PC with all the choices and all the steps but nice video.

[@zeash482]

Another software help when creating a character is heldensoftware its pretty good as well

[@hans_am_ende]

The first version of "The Dark Eye" from 1984 had legendarily fast character generation. You roll 5D6. That's all.

[@AntHalus]

As a German I first have to say that you can explain very well and that you also have a really nice voice. Regarding "The Dark Eye" I am still on the previous version (4.1) because I just don't like the current version (version 5) that you have reviewed. Do you still play it yourself or is it just a review?

[@uhlrichsofister7907]

If you don't like all this calculation stuff you can just pick up one of these ready to go characters and if you like you can play just a litte with advantages and disadvantages. With this you can change the color of your character completely and it takes just some minutes. But warning: when I start doing this I always end up changing here and there and everywhere.

[@billtreadwell4751]

I think Lore next as it so tie into the game system

[@JonaxII]

Yeah, 4.1 might have been more complicated overall, and maybe adding another concept of generating points makes things more complicated to grasp at first glance, but maaaaaan, just splitting up 100GP point by point onto the Attributes was easier than using the whole AP tables.

[@MischkaRPG]

Ulisses provides a fillable self calculating char sheet as an PDF.

[@SheenaTigerspielt]

Oh character creation and leveling up did some interesting changes since I know the system, which would be from edition 2 onward (5th is the exported version) In 2nd and 3rd you were rolling lots of dice to get your abilities and depending on them you would pick your class and race. Maybe you could change stats around like using a high roll you did on the first roll for the 4th stat and thus get the class and race you wanted. Back then you had some "bad attributes" every character had which by now have been switched into flaws you can pick up or the race or class comes with. Dwarves had to be quite greedy and angry but you could adjust the attributes, like buying 2 bad points in exchange for 1 point in a good attribute. The starting skills had been lists... you pick a class and it tells you the stat, modified by race. Leveling up was ... interesting. Rolling a number of dice (depending on how high the attribute or skill is) and hope you roll above. But you have only a certain number of attempts each level (yes back then it was clear levels to rach with XP) and if you had really bad luck not 1 was an increase. Edition 4 and the actual 5th and international edition is using the modular point-buy and ditching levels for getting better. 5th edition is LESS clunky and still allows for total freedom. Every class and race and background is build with a certain system and in theory you could use that and build your own. Though honestly, unless you are building something completely new like for a homebrew setup the packages are quite good.

[@bogaty72]

Could you go over how skills are meant to work in terms of applications and trade secrets? I find this bit of the rules as written to be very confusing. The example they give on p.186 (the Etiquette: Heraldry test) says that a player normally cannot even attempt a skill test if they don't possess the requisite application. I can see this in certain cases (such as the heraldry test) but for things such as "perception: spot" or "feat of strength: pulling", this doesn't make much sense at all. Further, this seems to contradict the rules listed under the Skill Specialization special ability on p 218 which indicates that possessing an application gives you a +2 bonus to a skill test requiring said application. Finally, there is a Heraldry special ability listed on p.216. I says you need the Heraldry Special Ability in order to attain the Heraldry and Family Trees application for the Etiquette skill. To me, this seems unclear. I had hoped this would have been addressed in the Errata but there's nothing listed there. I'd like to know just how applications are meant to work.

[@silas3403]

Oh yeah when I play with my friends we typically use the experienced EL, because that's the one that's just the most comfiest to start with and most comparable to 4th edition. But I do wanna say 4th edition skill leveling up was a fucking mess, because every time you level up your skill your next increase will be a different one, we had none of that Level A up to SR 12 is 1 or something, no it costs something different at each SR and it was pain, but thankfully there's a pretty good character creation software for 4th edition, though it's German only. ;v; To note: the Adventure Point economy between fourth and fifth edition was changed drastically too. It's not exactly the conversion rate but it comes close to probably 10:1 between 4th to 5th. And in 4th edition your sagacity actually determined how many AP you had at the start and I'm kinda glad they took that out.

[@IWFDI]

Even as a25 year vet I only use character creation apps... because the maths on paper you have to make is sooooo awful. But as I remember correctly the base 8 points in each attributes don't cost AP. At least that's how we play it.

[@brantleybrown290]

GM support!!!

[@Joe98753]

Please do a Video about gm support :)

[@nerdicted9496]

That looks very complicated. But could be fun once you understand it. Will look into it... If only for nostalgia reasons. 😂

[@devonsmith9519]

I gotta say, this system has me curious. Would it be possible to get a test game up via RPG Table Finder?

[@devonsmith9519]

Well, I say test game but I suppose I mean a Live game. The CC is very detailed and just listening to it, the biggest aspect people would reasonably have an issue with is one that you yourself mention. The tracking and math. I'd personally love to see how it plays out at an actual table though. This system to me screams you need a reasonably experienced GM. Especially if your references to tables is as in your face as you make it sound.

[@PhyreI3ird]

Lore, lore, lore, lore, lore, lore, lore... Please? :)

[@jws0837]

What is the URL for the character creation app? Looking at Dark Eye now and am interested in anything that helps.

[@jws0837]

Never mind, as soon as I posted that you provided what I needed in the video. So great job on that!

[@Asatruar1995]

Thing is: They simplified the character creation after 4.1, because, while in 5 the App comes in handy, in 4.1 the character creation Software is absolutely necessary, because nearly nobody is able to do it correctly.

[@denzelpanther240]

True