Characters That Serve The Plot Are Less Interesting Than Ones Who Motivate The Plot - Jack Perez

In this Film Courage video interview, filmmaker Jack Perez talks about how characters that serve the plot are less interesting than ones who motivate the plot in stories, screenplays, films and tv shows.
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#writing #screenwriting #screenplay

[@richiehayes3251]

”Twists” are only successful when the writer has the skill to provide the audience with all the information, clues and foreshadowing they need to see the twist coming yet still manage to surprise them when it unfolds. Internal logical consistency is key, anything else is hacky Deus ex machina and disrespectful to the audience. The mark of true success is to have the audience derive pleasure long after viewing the movie or reading the novel by discussing and debating this ”twist”. It’s like the satisfaction one derives in solving a puzzle. We should respect our audience enough to strive to always put this much effort into our writing.

[@AllThingsFilm1]

What popped out of this episode was the idea of coming up with a character first, and then writing a story that challenges that character's fears and needs. It's more than a character-driven story, it's a character-created story. Film Courage always gives me new ideas and techniques to consider when writing a story.

[@FixTheFlick]

Here's a process that always helps me: 1) Figure out my genre 2) Come up with a theme that the genre works with well 3) Create a character that embodies the theme 4) Finally, construct a plot that facilitates the character embodying the theme Genre conjures Theme Theme creates Character Character guides Plot Plot reveals Character Character embodies Theme Theme fits Genre

[@thescoon1]

I feel like a lot of new stories, instead of focusing on plot *or* characters, now prioritise themes, and characters now act in seemingly shallow, uninteresting, or illogical ways in order to project the theme. Themes, I find, are completely pointless if you don't care about the characters exploring them, and sadly, I've noticed a lot of character depth and design has been sacrificed in order to place the theme front and centre. 'What is the show/movie trying to say as a statement?' seems to be the priority more so now than 'How much do you empathise with the character?' or even 'What events took place?' - It's a simile to post-modernism, where it's not at all about the art itself, but what the art is trying to say. The new Star Wars is a great example of this to me, where I feel the characters don't have a lot of interesting traits. They seem to react how the story/themes needs them to react, rather than simply reacting based on their own character and what they've experienced, which leaves me thinking they are either shallow, or worse, not believable.

[@titansupes]

I read the first third of this post and my immediate thought was The Last Jedi. A movie that seems to have decided its themes and plot elements first, and contrived and contorted everything else to fit those molds... and it just doesn't work.

[@neslisultan]

Thank you for this thought! Really expanded my mind.

[@Ryuksgelus]

Funny this video is recommended to me and I see this post after Last of Us Part 2 comes out.

[@thescoon1]

@@Ryuksgelus was thinking about this video when reading about TLOU2. What a mess.

[@Gadottinho]

Great point, i totally agree

[@mmafreakful]

I love this guy. "You have this pile up of cool shit" lmao he looks like gary oldman too

[@kamuelalee]

Oldman's younger American brother

[@TriggerHappyD]

Gary oldman + johnny knoxville

[@d.comptonambrose4422]

Josh Duhamel Sr lol

[@blackbird8837]

actually 30% Gary Oldman, 30 % Johnny Knoxville, 40% Michael Shannon

[@yerabbit6333]

gary oldville?

[@haykisayan2206]

With sprinkles of Sam Lake

[@elduderino5390]

Pinch of 1980s David Byrne too.

[@ZombieBacon1337]

I came up with my long list of characters a while back, and one day I decided I wanted to start writing. The plot came to me pretty easily, because with a wide range of defined characters, I could just have them do what they would normally do in the situation. It's nice to have someone point out that my writing method is valid.

[@lonjohnson5161]

I always have ideas for cool beats and scenes. Sometimes those ideas survive meeting my characters.

[@RossAllaire]

What a great way to put it.

[@juliewochholz1629]

My favorite writing moments are when the characters take over. It's like I'm just taking dictation as the characters reveal themselves to me.

[@bill2953]

That's best part of a first draft.

[@PhantomRangerEarth1397]

It's why I love writing so much

[@justanameonyourscreen5954]

👍

[@icyBulls]

I really do believe that letting your characters, that you've created, create the story is profoundly more impactful than making a plot and forcing your characters to be molded in a way that fits that plot.

[@CrimeFit]

How does this character uniquely react to this "world" and what's put in front of him, is what I read. 🙏

[@barefootedbougie]

“Pile up of cool shit” 😂 I’m stealing that for my next writers meeting.

[@LadyOfTheEdits]

I'm so glad I'm not alone on this. I prefer character driven stories. In fact my books are character driven.

[@oldmanjinkinsskyrim737]

Character driven stories are almost always superior. Unless maybe your writing a biography.

[@ghostofdeath663]

@@oldmanjinkinsskyrim737 character driven stories are characters that have character growth and major change in their personalities the most common tend to be the redemption arc, plot driven characters are characters used to drive the plot things just happen sometimes they tend to be plot device an example of this is joker from dc comics the writers use and write him as a plot device in MOST of the stories and feels less like a character another example is johan liebert from monster he had major plot armour throughout the whole series.

[@RafaelBenedicto]

I think audiences who have lower empathy are more interested in plot, while those with higher empathy are more interested in the characters.

[@alexispapageorgiou72]

And that's why you have to care for both at the same time I think

[@ZDvoid]

Great observation!

[@darkdream1469]

@@alexispapageorgiou72 true

[@C.Church]

@@Omnicient. I dont see the link there

[@C.Church]

I dont think this is necessarily true. It sounds true, but not necessarily so. Someone who really cares for characters may really care that what the characters are experiencing makes sense. I care, but if someone is spiraling into chaos but it doesn't make sense I'm not going to say, "It's alright I'm confused. As long as 'they do them then I'll do me'." I can get that nonsense from the average user at Instagram. I care to know their experience is a sensible story for them. Edit for typos

[@moniquevamado]

Everyone has what works for them. Personally, I like to start with a character and a basic idea of how the story starts and ends and then follow the character around to see where he/she leads me.

[@justanameonyourscreen5954]

👍

[@bbudimanalqodri]

That a simple plot method. Just imagine how is starts and ends. Then figured out what happened in the middle.

[@OlgaKuznetsova]

It's so true...and I've seen it in film, when an outline of events is created first, and the character is forced to behave a certain way to fit the outline, you end up with characters that do things that are against their personality, against their nature. It's confusing to the viewer and takes you out of the story so much.

[@bazmurphy7792]

I found that very interesting about having a well thought out character that will literally write his/her own story.

[@CaptOsage]

Really great interview! Character informs plot and helps the writer avoid contrived situations. That was my main takeaway and he does a good job of making his case. I think he’s also got the right idea about twists. The twist is definitely the most prized aspect of a good/memorable film, but perhaps not for the reasons he implies. I think audiences are entertained by the ‘the twist’ because it’s a glimpse at a new idea. Whenever we don’t see something coming, especially an ending, that signals to me that the writer was thinking outside the box. Something we’ve all been told is not possible because apparently there are no more original ideas. Go figure. So in essence ‘the twist’ is a glimmer of hope that reminds us creativity is still possible.

[@user-rv4wn5qk7q]

I learned that "cool stuff" is just really great when it moves the story and it's part of the characters moving it, a movie that only has plot is a forgetable one.

[@outofservice22]

I recall watching North by Northwest for the first time and thinking to myself as I watched the crop duster scene, WHAT THE HECK? Now I know what happened. Thanks!

[@user-vw6xp5nl6t]

One things for sure. Jack Perez is a cool character name.

[@sylvandread9721]

The best thing about your channel is that these videos are usually relevant to the scene, question or problem I am facing on that day. Thank you for answering these important questions.

[@filmcourage]

Love to hear it. Great that KZbin is populating the right ones for you.

[@geetanjaliiyer3728]

You’re so right sir… I would just suggest a few different words. How about “Story”, comes from the character. I mean, put few three dimensional characters in a similar situation… for instance, what if we had two more passenger on board in Titanic. Captain Jack Sparrow and Forest Gump? I guess an entire different story will emerge from these character. Plotting or the amazing Art of plotting is creating exciting and challenging settings and situations for characters. The story will come out from characters (provide we know our characters). Hope you agree with me, or please illuminate me, if I am wrong. Thanks

[@WhatsThePointPicture]

There's some good information in here but I don't know that I buy all of it. I think asking if plot or characters is more important is a dumb question, not because the question itself is stupid but because it misses the point. Both Plot and Characters are incredibly important and together they tell a comprehensive story, to neglect one over the other doesn't serve that story. It's the writers responsibility to develop both of them to the best of their ability. While it's definitely true that strong characters who can drive and motivate the plot are better than characters who are just there to make a well developed plot functional; it is also equally true that a compelling plot that supports those strong characters is better than a forgettable one that just happens while you focus on the strength of your characters. It is important as a writer to put forth your best work when you craft a story, which means focusing on all of the stories elements not just one of them. To find a writer that would say that their "philosophy" favored one of those elements over the other would signal to me that those writers have elements in their stories that could be developed better.

[@JP-hh3mt]

This is exactly how I write. It's amazing to see this video. If you write stories where the characters dictate the plot it provides fresher dialogue because the characters 'write themselves'. I do create the overarching situation they're in, but how they react isn't pre-ordained by me - it's determined by their history as they've been written. It also makes the stories more fun to write.

[@justanameonyourscreen5954]

👍

[@donniemcmillin4839]

Love this! Thanks for these insights on character. I’ve struggled with this clashing of character and plot on previous projects and this really help clear things up in an obvious way.

[@aloknr2430]

Love jack Perez . Such a calm and wise teacher. I wish he was my mentor.

[@smeech5177]

This is so cool. This makes sense..I thought I was “dumb” because I have been watching so many writers say the complete opposite. Now, I have someone who tells me character driven stories are good and okay to do.

[@thereseember2800]

These were great points. Thank you for this interview.

[@reepacheirpfirewalker8629]

Look at history I find that one of the reasons why people find history so boring is because of the fact that they bog down the students with stories that are not interesting. Whereas I find the actual history very intriguing because of the people who push through and create history by virtue of their character and who and what they are. The good the bad and the ugly in every sense. As my High School History teacher quoted the boring teacher teaches boring history. The pro-active show aspects of people through history that are the stuff of blockbuster Hollywood movies of aforementioned past that still influences us today.

[@renegademax]

Character serves plot 100% of the time. Once you have compelling characters, they and only they, will write the story for you, if you can get out of your own way.

[@laquikmover]

"If you don't want to see my ad, go ahead and--" SKIP.

[@darkdream1469]

Same.

[@TanTan-sd1yg]

One of the best instructors ever. I always feel exciting and motivating every time I get his class.

[@filmcourage]

Love Jack, one of our favorites.

[@mattmanpro]

I don't think it's this one-or-the-other thing with character and plot. You need both. A character-driven story in which nothing genuinely heightened ever happens is gonna suck. A plot-driven story with wooden characters is gonna suck. A story with a killer plot and believable, human characters can be great, even if the characters aren't the most groundbreaking: for instance, the new Netflix show "Alice in Borderland". A story with fantastic, original characters and a sturdy but less-than-showstopping plot can also be great: i.e., indie movies like Leave No Trace. The best stories fire on both cylinders. Breaking Bad, Moonlight, the Bourne trilogy. Characters that are fascinating, original, and believable, and a plot that fully delivers with gripping, heightened situations and life-altering stakes. Corey Mandell, another great screenwriter I found through these interviews, calls this Creative Integration. I'm taking his class now-it's phenomenal! Highly recommend it.

[@mr.goodboi2780]

Sometimes they should motivate and other times they should serve. It's a balance when struck right that can make any story an epic one.

[@einsteindarwin8756]

This man is on point! I also love this channel! Thank you, thank you!

[@filmcourage]

Thank you for your support Kelly!

[@RabidArtists]

Definitely agree, a character CAN do something out of character but there needs to be justification. Same goes for the classic hero's journey structure, the beats need a reason to be happening to this specific pre-defined character before it happens. Sometimes it helps to make the beats, then write backwards to figure out the path from the previous to next, and then iron it out to flow well. Thx for the vid!

[@alkamathur2873]

Good learning tips to writing a script.

[@noelhoffmann6057]

Thank you! Was just talking about this very thing with my collaborator.

[@danyramos8139]

That’s my problem with the BvS movie. It was “okay, we have to get these characters together. Let’s have a lot of explosions!” And it never stopped to ask if the heroes they were remaking (who have a LONG history of characterizations) would actually do that

[@joseafalvel]

I'm starting to write my movie, I like to create scenearios in my mind with all kind of situations, ordinary and extraordinary ones and I imagine how my three or four main characters would react or what they would do.

[@bill2953]

Before writing a scene ask youself what you want it to accomplish. How you get there is what sets a good writer apart.

[@shelbyeinhorn3208]

When this dude starts talking about making a character and then knowing how they would react to certain situations because of how well you've come to known your character. I was like this is some SUPER S TIER advice 👌 I like character driven stories more because their much more enjoyable rather then oh ima do this because plot

[@morningcoffee1111]

I’m really trying to fit this good interview into the world of... Mega shark Versus Giant Octopus. Very confusing.

[@androssteague]

Was he referring to Jurassic park 3 or land of the lost? Those are the only films I can recall that have a man afraid of heights, a pterodactyl, and a tight rope.

[@shadowspector3611]

Probably Jurassic Park 3 because in Land of the Lost, the conflict lied in trying not to wake the eggs and not with trying to fight off a Pterodactyl.

[@Amelia_PC]

Finally! I resonate with what he said. "Do you think about creating characters who serve or motivate the plot?" Everything I write is character-driven and the protagonist is responsible for the major events (with good or bad actions, mainly bad actions or big failures because I'm focusing on Neo Noir lately).

[@Amelia_PC]

@The New Paulo Coelho Hm? Why am I focusing on Neo Noir?

[@Amelia_PC]

​@The New Paulo Coelho I'm a visual storyteller (comic book artist-for-hire working for publishers, but I'm licensing my IP for a PC game and a comic book now). I've been working on my graphic novel since 2016 (Got myself a publisher for this comic book, so I'm drawing the last chapter and editing the first issues). My GN has Neo Noir and thriller genre elements. That's why :) Are you working for the U.S. entertainment industry as well? I'm curious about you and your nickname. Paulo Coelho is my fellow countryman :)

[@tendaisimbanegavi519]

You cannot have one without the other. Every film or show or book HAS a perfect balance of plot and character, but it's up to the writers to find/identify that balance.

[@clouseaux]

Liked what he had to say, looked up his movies.... Mega Shark vs. Giant Octopus (2009) :/ Wild Things 2 (2004) ;/ "Some Guy Who Kills People" (2012)

[@joshliam1967]

I've noticed that when I decide everything that is going to happen in advance during the outline, in some cases once I reach a scene the plot points no longer matchup with how the character has been acting previously. For instance, I had a character who was going to go into a building, but when he was outside he was afraid and no longer wanted to so he went home instead. After talking to his father and regrouping he was able to become determined enough to go back, but while he still goes inside the building I think him needing to go home first adds to the story and his character. Overall, I think Jack Perez is spot-on that characters who motivate the plot and move the story forward are the most interesting. Sometimes, I think that means making adjustments to the plot based on what has happened with the characters previously, since if they directly drive the story forward to me that makes them feel so much more alive and real.

[@convolution223]

That does feel more real. That hesitation and refusal. Actually that refusal is part of Joseph Campbell's monomyth analysis of story structure so you're still spot on with the framework even if it was unconscious

[@esjel9804]

Heroes are courageous. Unless the character has a deep wound holding them back and making them scared (for a moment), the hero needing to go back to daddy for reassurance, unless at the beginning of the story to set up fear (a bad trait for a hero) is tantamount to a non hero. I once wrote a story about a fearful guy. Looking back, it was a rookie mistake, because I had him so afraid of acting just in order to demomstrate one huge act of courage later, making him passive up to that point. Lesson learned though. Heroes dont shy away in the face of fear or danger, they act. |They hesitate at times, but they dont need pep talks unless they recently have been defeated around midpoint or toward the end of act 2 before the final push to the climax in act 3

[@convolution223]

@@esjel9804 Depends if you have a character arc or not.

[@joshliam1967]

@@esjel9804 He doesn't go to see his dad, he goes to his apartment and his dad is unexpectedly there. Also he does have a deep wound, but I won't say what the wound is since it isn't relevant to the point I was making. I disagree that heroes never shy away in the face of danger, and I see courage coming from feeling fear and then going and doing what you need to do anyway. In my opinion, if a hero always wants to act immediately without feeling afraid that makes for a boring character since there's no internal conflict and they become too one dimensional.

[@joshliam1967]

​@@esjel9804 I do agree that protagonists need to act on a consistent basis in order to avoid being passive, but sometimes fleeing a threat can itself be an action. A great example of this is when the Fellowship are fleeing the Balrog in Moria, the heroes are courageous no question but still know they need to flee in order to survive. What makes that scene so powerful to me, is that Gandalf stands up against the Balrog to save the others even though he believes it will lead to his own doom. However, I think that if he had stood up against the Balrog without first running away that scene would not have been nearly as iconic. As 0vrStart said above, it all comes down to whether you want your character to have an arc or not, and since character arcs are one of my favorite parts of stories I prefer having strong arcs.

[@coach3155]

this channel is incredible

[@filmcourage]

Thanks Coach!

[@sash9249]

The thing is though, Hitchcock was right because it WAS awesome, he knew it, and now we know it because those scenes became iconic the instant they were comitted to celuloid. Every writer dreams of creating sequences that memorable. Unfortunately, we're not all Hitchcock lol.

[@alexispapageorgiou72]

His pitch was so good that I forgot he pissed on a god

[@HackMyControlSystem]

I applaud his ethics on writing discipline. To be fair, that scene made North By Northwest iconic. Thus, there's a time and a place to indulge yourself.

[@lilm33m59]

THANK GOD FOR THIS PAGE!

[@mjl1966y]

So glad to hear a pro debunking the current obsession with subverting expectations at the expense of story.

[@Sunshine-zm1fx]

I feel like this guy, Jack Perez, would make an excellent actor.

[@quieracollins5127]

amazing advice

[@thefatman69dude]

I prefer character driven stories. Plot to me has always been secondary. If I care about the character then the story to me is dictated by their actions and motivations. If the characters are strong and well written then I could really care less about the plot. Characters that motivate plot are my kind of characters. That's content I'll enjoy

[@ashishbisht2459]

Very very true..., once write has figured out exact personality of main character....,that character itself helps writer to carry forward story in authentic manner....& Close to reality too

[@RWAsur]

Jack Perez talking the truth, mad respect man.

[@ecarmona_]

He nailed the Game of Thrones finale

[@muzikmanner6019]

Thanks for this interview. I create characters that are multi-faceted and then put them in scenes that slowly reveal how they adapt to the situations in which they become involved. Like pealing the layers of an onion to reveal the core of the character. I like to use psychology and suspense rather than explosions, gun fights or special effects.

[@KhasAdun1990]

So here's an interesting thing. I've been learning about psychology and human behavior since I was 13, and having characters that behave realistically has merit. I got into writing with the intention of being true to what I had learned about people, but then I saw something on The West Wing. There was a scene in the first episode where a woman was mad at a guy, and as he's trying to explain his motives, she goes up to him and slaps him in the face. Normally when people get slapped, they get really mad. He didn't get really mad, he just kinda threw his arms up as if to say "What gives?" Then she explained her position, which developed the scene. So that's when it really clicked for me that characters are different from people. You can choose to have them behave realistically, or you can choose to have them behave unrealistically. I think you can definitely do both in the same story, having characters behave realistically adds believability and uncertainty to the story, where the story may require a certain type of response, but they behave in a way that upends that path, but then there are times where you can be a puppet master and have the characters behave in a way that serves the story, perhaps you set up a situation, and having them evoke a certain, but unrealistic, response can have an emotional payoff that being too realistic may subvert. I think it's advantageous to decide on a case-by-case basis.

[@nicholashildenbrand8632]

I think it's best to stick with one style for each project. If you want a more plot driven story with unrealistic characters that's fine but make sure they remain that way. If you want a character driven story where the plot develops based on realistic character motivations then keep it that way until the end of the project.

[@stiankallhovd7041]

This was a really refreshing video! I strongly agree with Mr. Perez that the characters matter more than the plot. Of course, I would say that there is no plot without characters, so the two do not exist separately the way I see it. But there certainly are some filmmakers who believe in "cool shit" as Mr. Perez expresses it, and I think he is justified in using that expression. For me, at least, I would never be motivated to tell a story if I didn't care about the characters. And I often find the temptation to write in cool elements easy to resist if I judge these elements to contradict the greater purposes of the story.

[@Brinco-tv]

I like how this is the same wise advice as Alan Watt, just explained from another perspective: care about your character before your structure.

[@larkmacallan4257]

very often I write down lines as I'm going, or as I'm envisioning it, and they rarely make it in. but they help crystallize the concept and motivate you to get it done

[@bbudimanalqodri]

I think is based on what the writer focused on, character or plot, because you can make characters first or plot first. Both character and plot can give a sepsific message that writer want to said.

[@HonestArttsEntertain]

On point

[@christineblack8035]

Every writer needs to see this!

[@DJM3D]

I prefer stories that don't need twists are the best. Also, twists usually feel cheap or like a simple way to flip things to make the story different. Take the movie Hancock for example, I really liked where it was going and what it was about until the Charlize Theron superhero switch too. It would have been more fulfilling and dynamic if it wasn't a thing about destiny weakening him by being with her, but that he's weakened when he gets his heart broken (That sounds like a great story waiting to happen.) I feel like the Hancock character was going in a strong direction too with that story he told about Frankenstein. I would have preferred not knowing where he came from and what his backstory was. It's funny but it made the movie feel less real when it was revealed who they were and that there were two superhuman type characters. Also, it's funny how precise I'm being about a movie that came out years ago haha. And man did I hate the switch in "Glass." That movie could have ended so much better.

[@HonestArttsEntertain]

Brilliant

[@TomEyeTheSFMguy]

I always try to turn my plots into character driven plots.

[@personaldevelopmentuniversity]

NICE!

[@michaeljonathanking3322]

Thanks

[@jamesthokcha4299]

Being the character and write..boom🎉

[@jaredjenkins99]

I really dislike this "two camps" idea of Plot vs. Character. Because Plot + Character = Story. One without the other is pointless. And one being more developed than the other is a story that could be improved. I get that you have to start with one when you first sit down to write. Either the plot comes first in your mind, or the characters do. But by the end of your many, many rewrites, whatever is lacking should have been boosted to the point where neither are noticeably stronger than the other. Like that dinosaur tightrope example, your script should be rewritten to the point that there are multiple set ups throughout the story, so that when the payoff happens, it makes perfect sense, character and plot wise.

[@uanime1]

The two camps exist because most movies either focus on the plot or the character because focusing on both can result in a terrible story. For example while people may be happy to see ordinary teens dealing with a love triangle during high school (character based) or Earth's military fighting against an alien invasion (plot based) no one wants to see ordinary teens dealing with a love triangle during an alien invasion.

[@adz951]

I don't think it's a matter of one versus the other. I think it's more of a case of the plot being driven by the character's choices, and those choices come about from knowing your characters well, rather than sitting down and saying, 'we need to hit this beat, this beat, and this one' and making the characters fit in to that one-dimensional range.

[@uanime1]

@@adz951 "I think it's more of a case of the plot being driven by the character's choices" That only works in a character focused show where the characters can have an impact on the plot. So it will work in a story about a high school boy going on a journey (such as Into the Wild) but won't work during a war drama (such as Sands of Iwo Jima) where most of the choices will be outside of the main characters' control. Also there's a third camp: message, where the focus is on the message more than the characters or plot. An example would be Animal Farm or the Lorax.

[@adz951]

@@uanime1 I wish I could respond to those examples - I've read Animal Farm but have not seen any of the movies you've mentioned. Can you suggest any more recent films that might fall under those banners? In terms of Animal Farm (and my memory of the book) I'd say it's still character driven - characters making choices that drive the plot.

[@uanime1]

@@adz951 "Can you suggest any more recent films that might fall under those banners?" Regarding plot driven movies I recommend any war movie as the character will be told where to go and who to fight, and all the character can do is fight, desert, or die. The important thing is that the character's motivation is determined by someone else, thus they have limited agency. For example in the Sands of Iwo Jima the American soldiers are fighting the Japanese soldiers because these countries are at war and if they weren't at war none of these soldiers would have any reason to fight. Outside of war movies I recommend movies where the character has to react to the situation but there isn't a character with the ability to resolve the situation by themselves. Examples would be Shin Godzilla (the choice is do the one thing that can stop Gozilla or get nuked by the USA), The Hobbit (Bilbo can help but cannot win a war by himself). Most superhero and action movies wouldn't count since the heroes have all the power they need to stop the villain by themselves. Regarding James Bond while he is ordered by the government to stop the villains (limited agency) he almost always has all the skills/gadgets he needs to defeat the villains by himself so I'd say he doesn't count. Plot driven movies are becoming rare since Hollywood wants heroes who have complete agency and can solve all the problems by themselves. Regarding message driven movies I recommend any movie nominated for best documentary at the Oscars. Movies outside of this are pretty rare so I can only list some of the most famous ones such as Supersize Me (fast food is bad for your health), Lorax (environmentalism), Day after tomorrow (climate change), Animal Farm (dictatorships can quickly form), Grave of the Fireflies (war can destroy lives). "In terms of Animal Farm (and my memory of the book) I'd say it's still character driven - characters making choices that drive the plot." For the majority of the book Napoleon is the only character whose choices matter, with everyone else having to react to those choices. When the choices the POV characters face is obey, flee, or die the POV characters aren't driving the plot any more.

[@nyakimovich]

Was thinking of kat dennings in Thor. I always remember her character because she was so likeable and funny and there for pretty much no reason. But I always remember her.

[@briansmith2030]

I must say I can't stand it when characters are psychologly inconsistent, for no apparent reason.

[@m430d3]

I guess if we follow Dan Harmons wheel of focusing on what a character fundamentally wants and the underlying need behind it, along with competing interests. Maybe itll help fix those issues. Generally a lot of tales are an obstacle course and personal evolution in pursuing a desire.

[@ADavid42]

In my own writing, I often end up giving the reins to the characters and have to update the outline afterwards. Sometimes, I manage to force my characters back into the plot, but it's like herding cats.

[@rithicadevireddy]

I'm pretty sure this is also Tarantino's style of approaching a script and tbh it's one of the best advice you're ever going to get about storytelling. 🙌

[@RawHeadRay]

Character is most important to me as a witness to a characters story. I hate it when a "Twist" de-values the entire first portion of the characters journey, The Sixth Sense was a very successful twist because it didnt make the first portion of the film redundant.

[@TheGeoDaddy]

Interesting characters make interesting choices... that drive the story.

[@thenkindler001]

The word I prefer is “coherency”. The tight rope tetradactyl scene must fit seamlessly with the whole of the story.

[@TheGeoDaddy]

“Outlander” the only thread that make Jamie and Clair consistent are that they are played by the same actors. Other than that, it’s just contrivances to keep the thing keep spinning those plates.

[@wattpadusergeek342]

I didn’t know there was a phrase to describe these 2 types of characters, but now I do. And now I understand why certain characters don’t appeal to me. As someone working to hone their skill in writing action stories, I really don’t like it when characters are just there to make a cool action scene happen. It’s tacky. So, do I think of characters who serve or who motivate the plot? I’m going to go with those who motivate the plot. Those who have to choose how to react to new scenes based on the actions they made before that brought about this new scene. Meaning that, if they’d chosen to do something different in the previous scene, this new one wouldn’t exist or would be completely different. Like life. That’s how I justify new scenes in my action stories. If the characters making a different choice in the previous scene wouldn’t change the new scene, I have to ask myself if that new scene really serves the story or if it’s just something cool that I wanted to include because it’s cool. Having said that, sometimes I do include scenes because I think they’re cool. Just not every scene.

[@caricatureparty]

Seems like such a nice fellow.

[@KrogunDK]

If you come up with some cool thing, and you want that to be one of the center pieces of your story, think to yourself what kind of character would actually do this? That way you can get your "thing" done believably. You will have "less freedom" in writing your character that way, but you can still do a strong and flushed out character. If you come up with a cool character, and you want him to be the center of your story. Well, then you have a little less freedom with the direction of your plot. I think you can do it both ways. I have no clue what kind of character would chase someone with a crop duster, but I'm sure one could be thought up in a satisfying manner.

[@luizantoniosouza2767]

Awesome. That's my idea of plot.

[@PhantomRangerEarth1397]

Raise your hand if you watch these videos and quietly critique your own work to make sure you aren't breaking any rules

[@unknownshadow675]

In my own story the climax in Act 2 of this 3 act story the protagonist and antagonist were supposed to face off and have a fight that was just gonna be brutal and bloody. It was so badass and I wanted that for the ending of Act 2 so much. But as I wrote out the story it became abundantly clear that with the revelations and actual character of these two the fight could never make sense. This antagonist would never wanna harm this protagonist . And so when the protagonist arrives for his showdown the antagonist can only apologize and cry knowing all he's done already And the protagonist beats him to death. The antagonist doesn't even try to block or anything. It's a bloody and terrible scene to see unfold. But it's what these characters would do given everything that had occurred and been revealed.

[@aphrodite7194]

I agree an interesting character is worth a thousand plots. A good character will make the story write itself.

[@fionna5342]

Yes. This.

[@go191nza2]

this guy said it, i always hear people saying, "oh, a good movie is a movie that has a great ending, a twist, and ending that blows me away" and it is cool to watch movies like that but i don't think that's the only way to tell a good story

[@Javalin197Gaming]

I feel this is very insightful and I would at the moment, agree with what Jack says, but a quick google search to the films he has worked on gives me very mixed feelings on taking his advice.

[@avivastudios2311]

I don't think twists are cheap but yes there is more to a story than a good twist.

[@landofthesilverpath5823]

I mostly agree. However, a movie with no plot or a bad plot can not be saved by an interesting character. A film with flat characters can work with a gripping plot, as long as you care enough about the characters. But, generally speaking, he is mostly correct. And he is most certainly correct that the protagonist has to be the one making the decisions and taking the actions which drive the plot. This is key.

[@shrinewitch]

Profound advice from the guy who did Mega Shark vs Giant Octopus....

[@katemara667]

I was so invested Mega Shark's character arc. It was such a profound emotional journey.

[@enjoythestruggle]

He is right.

[@ericwilliams626]

Plot is work. Character is necessary to carry the plot. In short, I write in terms of personality rather than characterization. It helps me understand the goal better with the word personality. Your show should have personality as well as your characters. All characters need a sense of humor, even if its just for a moment, dark, eerie, sinister, it doesn't matter. But using tone to carry your story is important and you accomplish this with a personality to your story. That's what makes it feel unique and is unique. In order to accomplish this, you need a personality yourself. Ah ha, that's the problem!

[@ghostofdeath663]

The issue is the ex machina sometimes the characters get used as a plot device they feel less like a character

[@markothwriter]

I really like a story where a character changes or makes a big decision near the end. Casablanca is like that. I agree with him that surprise endings seem kinda cheap.

[@jeremiahnoar7504]

Chads: “are you an ass or boobs guy” Writers: “are you a plot or character guy”

[@justanameonyourscreen5954]

Ass and character of course...

[@pixxelwizzard]

"You can't just put stuff in because it's cool..." J. J. Abrams has entered the chat.

[@cosmicprison9819]

“You have this pile up of cool sh*t.” The emphasis here, of course, is on sh*t.