Charging A Deep Frozen Tesla LFP Battery

[@tomdy69]

I've supercharged at -30C before. No big deal if you precondition on the way to the supercharger like normal.

[@jonnyvwjonnyvw2636]

Wie lange dauert dieser Vorgang? Wie viel Energie wird dafür benötigt?

[@RoamingNorway]

Same, and explained in this video.

[@LaciPucak]

@@jonnyvwjonnyvw2636 It depends on the battery temperature. Best thing is to precondition, if you know you are going to be departing at 11:00, let car precondition for 11:00, it will start 10:30 or before or later, depending on battery temp, so that at 11:00 it will be ready to go, then it also heats more on the way to supercharger if you navigate :)

[@philstesla]

@@jonnyvwjonnyvw2636halbe bis Dreiviertelstunde vorkonditionieren, wenn man nur 80-100km/h fährt

[@PJWey]

💯 cold weather is where EVs are best, like you say preconditioned cabin is a game changer

[@SK1PP3R88]

Ever heard of Webasto? Obviously not, moron.

[@777Outrigger]

This happened to Uber drivers in Chicago last winter in a bad winter storm, because they sit in line so long and didn't preheat, or the preheating stopped because of the long wait. When they finally got to the Supercharger they thought their Tesla was broken and wouldn't charge. Perfect storm, so to speak.

[@SpottedSharks]

I'd add that if you've been driving all day and it's very cold, then you should do your Supercharging at the end of the day when the battery is still warm. If you wait until morning, the battery will be cold-soaked and then you run into those Chicago problems.

[@777Outrigger]

@@SpottedSharks I agree. That's what a normal driver would do. But Uber drivers have to charge a couple of times a day, but when the weather is really cold and there's more charging than normal, and you have to wait in line and the preheating has stopped because you've waited in line so long. By the time you get to the charger, it seems your battery is broken because your car won't charge at first as it warms the battery, which makes the line even longer, etc., etc.

[@Islamisthecultofsin]

The charging cords were super cold and people just dropped them in the snow instead of putting it back on the charger. Snow got in the connector and then the charger wouldn't charge as it was shorted out.

[@tazeat]

-.5C? How about "Charging A Barely Frozen Tesla LFP Battery"

[@thomasschraubt7497]

"that's not deep" - this guys girlfriend

[@vaxt]

The car will keep the battery warm-ish, this is probably as low as it will let it go.

[@Animosity6792]

How about "Barely charging a barely frozen Tesla LFP battery"?

[@wcoenen]

​@@vaxtMaybe when plugged in, but otherwise no. The "high voltage battery information" of the owner's manual says "When left idle and unplugged, your vehicle periodically uses energy from the Battery for system tests and recharging the low voltage battery when necessary". Keeping the battery warm would use a lot of power, so it would have been mentioned there if they did that.

[@sl1nk3]

Yeah what a joke, I was expecting at least -10°C, I have charged mine in temperatures below -20°C here in Quebec with no problem

[@Porkonfork]

Thanks for the Charger with ICE on it, it's currently 40 degrees Celsius here in Aus. My MY LFP works hard just to keep the inside cabin at 20 degrees when l'm out and about :)

[@leonettek]

It sounds more like a joke, but the cabin fan motor also has a lossy mode. Its heat goes only into the cabin. Probably you cannot turn it on without getting heat from the compressor too. But I wonder if that would have made any difference for the cabin temperature.

[@joserbatistaPT]

Would be interesting if you repeated the test now with the preconditioning on to see the difference.

[@RoamingNorway]

The preconditioned battery would give us at least 150 kW immediately. I will be doing more testing this winter.

[@malte-u9z]

@@RoamingNorway but it costs a lot of energy 5kw/h just for preconditioning

[@ziggyyo]

@@malte-u9z kWh/h = kW

[@lucapierri]

Nice job as usual! 😊 It would be nice to perform the same test with NMC battery on Tesla Model 3 LR, both single motor RWD and dual motor AWD.

[@zbynekjedlicka1402]

Hi you can just turn on all seat heaters and the interior will warm a little even with HVAC off.

LFP Batteries severely degrade a lot more when you try to charge them at temperatures below 4°C. if the car frimware does not rotect you against it you can ruin it within a few chargng cycles. one of the very few downsides of LFP batteries. dischargin is not a problem even at -20C, but charging them ruins them.

[@tesla-rossa]

So, just 3min preheating! Very good

[@Marki555]

You can see both the current max. regen power and current max. discharge current in the s3xy app. Also for the power, you would see it on the main display if it would be reduced (dash line on the top of the bar, similar to dashed line for reduced regen). Also in my experience the cabin heater will not use the heat from battery if the battery is cold (can be seen in scanmytesla in the Battery Inlet Temp field - when it is using heat from battery for cabin, the inlet temperature will be lower than the battery temperature). When my battery is under 10deg, it is actually heating up slowly when heating the cabin - not sure if just from the driving itself (slow speed in city traffic jams) or if car sends some of the generated heat to the battery.

[@StefanYoutube]

SEXY app and Scan My Tesla app are the ones to use to see all the details. It can help us undusted the logic that is programed in the BMS.

[@nononsenseBennett]

External battery warmer: Inflate an air mattress under the car to warm the battery. Warm forced air provided by auxiliary heater/blower. Get the battery temperature higher quicker?

[@paulwinter9672]

Very interesting & informative video.

[@RoamingNorway]

Thanks!

[@georgepelton5645]

You can tell if you have full power by looking at the (hard to see) power gauge on the touchscreen. It is on the left edge with the latest software. Green for regen and black for propulsive power. Dotted lines indicate restrictions for regen and propulsive power.

[@honesty_-no9he]

The MODEL Y refresh will have next gen LFP CATL SHENXING battery with both deep cold charging and much faster charging.

[@jorgebernaldiaz7572]

Hi, just an advice, if you turn on the hvac, it would pull the extra power needed to heat up the cabin from the supercharger, so the car keeps charging at the same speed, you don't need to be cold for the experiment 😅

[@RoamingNorway]

Where would it generate that heat from? The already maxed out inverter/motor?

[@thenetworkarchitectchannel]

Thx for this. Helpful testing in real world settings. Thx for the video. I enjoyed watching.

[@junehanzawa5165]

William, what do you do in cold Norway winters when there is no charger around to plug in overnight? Let's say, minus -10C for example. Do you schedule the cabin to be warmed up a few hours prior to driving so that the battery warms itself up a bit by it being used? Tesla's can be set to battery precondition when not plugged in as long as it's not below a certain SoC, but what about other EV's in Norway's cold winters? That could be a nice video to show everyone out there who live in such cold areas outside of Norway and don't have a way to charge overnight.

[@RoamingNorway]

My tip for a situation like that is to charge up after the last drive, when you have a warmer battery. Then you will have to burn through enough juice that the battery is warm for the next charging session. If you need to charge, and have a cold battery, I would definitily precondition the car. Great tips for things to discuss in videos.

[@junehanzawa5165]

@RoamingNorway On a future video, you might want to leave your Tesla outside but not plugged in on a pretty cold night and set it to pre-condition a couple of hours before you plan to drive so that others without EV's can compare both videos and see what a huge difference it makes.

[@15bit62]

This is a real weakness of the single motor cars that i don't think gets much attention - in the absence of a PTC the dual motor cars have 2x the heating capability of the single motor cars, and even they seem to struggle to keep the cabin warm when the outside temperature drops below -15C.

[@TschingisTube]

It's not 2x, the heat pump is used as well on both models

[@15bit62]

@@TschingisTube At -15C the heat pump is not contributing so much though. Some, but not so much.

[@TschingisTube]

@ we have right now 13 degree in Germany and the test video it's also -4 maybe when you request your test add that it must be done in extreme weather conditions to proof... Actually nothing to proof just because.

[@rinbine2713]

Think about it. At -2~-3°C, it’s not such a terribly cold day, right? If that car fills up the supercharger with the number of cars, then from that point on, cars arriving with less than 10% charge won't even be able to charge. That’s what caused the Tesla incident in Chicago last year.

[@tomdy69]

In real life you'd precondition on the way to the supercharger and would charge just as fast as in normal temperatures. These "cold soak" cases aren't really representative.

[@wescoleman6390]

Reduced charging performance is part of it, but there were other issues with the Chicago storm: Drivers unable, unwilling, or not knowing how to precondition, Sudden unanticipated spike in DC fast charger demand from ride share leasing co's pushing Teslas, and holiday long weekend traffic all combined to make the situation cascade.

[@rinbine2713]

@@tomdy69 Is battery heating done for free? You have to use a power for battery precondition. I don't think there will ever be a case where it reaches under 5% in real life during the winter. You can't do battery preconditioning. If just 10 cars with that situation enter the Tesla Supercharger, after that, it will be jammed all superchagers. Imagine the temperature is around -20 to -10 degrees, not -3 to 0 degrees. In that case, the number of such cars will increase rapidly. This was proven during the Tesla Chicago incident. Tesla operated for years before introducing LPF, but such incidents did not occur.

[@Marki555]

@@rinbine2713 I guess most people will navigate tu SuC, so will precondition automatically. Also usually the battery is much warmer than the minimum morning outside temperature (from daily driving and from parking during the days when it is not so cold). The battery takes quite a lot of time to cool to ambient temperature. Even in the video the outside temp is -5deg and battery is only -0.5deg.

[@sportysp]

@@rinbine2713 Why drive your battery to below 5% before going to a charger? Charging below 0 is an issue with LFP, discharge less so.

[@Martinko_Pcik]

It is quite inconvenient sacrificing driver's comfort for the charging time. -4C is as mild cold as it gets and the car makes Norwegian feeling cold ! 😮 Would the strategy change help ? How much longer would it take to prioritize human comfort first ?

[@richardgaudreault7095]

I am from Quebec and our winters are very cold and never had a problem with my lfp battery from (a 2023 tesla 3). For Batteries it damages less in very cold then very hot. I leave my car for days in extreme cold temperature. I dont know about BC but our tesla back east have heaters and coolers for the battery. Its funny to me when you say 0.5C is really cold, for me its nice weather.

[@RoamingNorway]

For the battery, it is not nice weather!

[@Popdog76]

Only comment I have is that I once tried to drive a LFP Tesla model 3 without preconditioning on a cold day (below 12c) to a charger at motorway speeds for 1 hour 15 mins and that didn’t warm the battery. Teslas don’t seem to warm the battery by just driving like other EVs.

[@prequel1592]

please show VIN or the 7th number of the VIN. WE need to know WHAT type of LFP there is. Because the BYD blade battery seems different.

[@RoamingNorway]

It’s CATL. Model 3 has never had BYD blade.

[@StefanYoutube]

BYD Blade battery rocks! It can get 170kW charging with just 12c temperature of the battery. I did this test 2 weeks ago.

[@PJWey]

@@RoamingNorwaymy MG4 SE also has a CATL LFP pack. Similar sort of performance too. Thanks for sharing as I would love a Model 3 LFP one day

[@3ChFlash]

@@StefanKZbinI can confirm have a Tesla Model Y BYD battery… impressive charging and efficiency

[@prequel1592]

@@StefanKZbin Show it on youtube

[@bramd8819]

How long does it take to precondition the battery? How many km’s?

[@richardgaudreault7095]

it depends on how cold your battery is. It will preheat it to a certain temperature before starting to charge. It will be faster if your car has a heater for it. A lot of tesla's dont have a battery heater.

[@vee3138]

Thanks for great content👍 Looking to buy my first EV (used one) and the cold weather testing is the most interesting data because most of EV testing and content is made in warm weather. I have read on forums and watched content from other Nordic countries and there seems to be an issue with Tesla heat pumps breaking down (at least in model Y and model 3 before Highland versions) a lot in cold weather driving (for some users every winter at least once). Have you heard from issues with the Tesla heat pumps in Norway or other common problems? Also common problem for Teslas (other makes too and including hybrids) in cold weather countries seems be condensation damaging batteries from the inside (many repair shop videos on YT about this) just after the warranty period (not been a problem in warm weather countries) so that makes me cautios to keep the car after warranty period and when more people get informed of this problem there might be problems to get any reasonable sale price from out of warranty EVs..

[@fwskungen208]

Hello you might want to do a preheated battery as well. try to get sameish conditions

[@RoamingNorway]

Coming enough of that content soon. I’ll precondition from now on.

[@TrumanBurbankFE]

I hope you have the referral link next year when I buy the Model Y Juniper.

[@RoamingNorway]

Yeah, it is always live.

[@Martinko_Pcik]

Would it help to cover the roof glass with heat refletive material in winter to reduce cabin heat loss?

[@filipoobrad6873]

I think a better test would be "what happens if you forget to preheat battery" and thne you start the car put climat eon max and precondition the battery whiule driving to the super charger, way more realistic than just going to a supercharger without pre heating or climate in the cold andf jsut plugg it in, yk?

[@jlh2119]

How much extra electricity / cost does it take to heat the battery and charge in this situation?

[@RoamingNorway]

2.5 kW * approx. 1 hour gives us 2.5 kWh of wasted energy to heat the battery. Approx cost = $1.5 in wasted cost.

[@Warekiwi]

Very interesting but I'm unlikely to ever experience this living in the UK with an MYLR ( NCA battery)

[@Rashombo]

I think the car should definitely have a dedicated loop PTC to heat up the battery in situations like this, I wonder how much of the 2.5 Kw on the rear inverter actually makes it into the pack as heat

[@15bit62]

I agree. I also live in Norway and i find that my 2021 M3LR really struggles to heat the cabin once the outside temperature gets below -15C or so. The earlier PTC models do better in that regard.

[@Rashombo]

@@15bit62 -15 is cold I can imagine at that temperature, The PTC heater having more output. The PTC model however is even worse trash when it comes to heating the battery though... The PTC model also uses the inverter to heat the battery. And because it doesn't have a heatpump to scavange that heat I think an even bigger chunk of the energy from the rear inverter is probably lost to the outside air...

[@RWBHere]

Thanks. Subscribed. 🙂👍

[@Tony-em4cb]

Really interesting content! Finally we have some real test from Highland. I have a model 3 LFP too since 3.5yrs (the 55kw one, the first batch of MIC with LFP). Honestly, in winter it sucks… always limited regen and you waste a lot of time and money just for battery temperature management. If you only charge at home it can be ok but the moment you rely on the supercharge, you realize the real face of LFP. I am a taxi driver so I can never pre-heat and rely mostly on supercharger and I am based in Switzerland, all this makes the LFP experience in winter not good. I have no experience with NCM/NCA but I think in winter the are superior, even charging at 80% only. Thank you.

[@jooptablet1727]

You might want to look into the new model 3, there have been many many improvements over the years.

[@Tony-em4cb]

@ From what I can see, battery wise, nothing has really changed outside of the 5kw more capacity.

[@klikar1982]

Why you can not preheat?

[@Tony-em4cb]

@ No charger at home and preheating won’t really change the game outside of heating the cabin more or less. + the fact I never know when I start working. About preheating for supercharging, yes I use of course but you need to start AT LEAST 30mn before and is around 6% energy wasted. And even after a supercharger session with battery well warm, if you drive some hilly terrain, you loose very soon full regen. In my experience LFP is good for price but it’s not so versatile, perhaps other chemistry offer you more freedom of mind. But I can’t talk because have no experience with NCM batteries, perhaps my next car.

[@jooptablet1727]

@Tony-em4cb ah yes home charging does make a big difference in this case. I have an older NMC model 3 AWD and now a new LFP model 3 standard range as well and haven't had any issues so far in cold weather but I can see how your situation could be different. I do think newer lfp batteries are better in the cold but if this is a persistent issue you might want to choose a non-lfp pack if you can't charge at home /garage.

[@anthonylangton3664]

A PTC heater is 100% efficient. It is inefficient in comparison to a heat pump.

[@myselfmiky]

I live in Oslo I have a Model S (non LFP battery) and I’ve noticed it takes at approximately 30 min for the battery to properly preheat when the temperature is 0 degrees C or below. How long does it take for the LFP battery to properly preheat?

[@Marki555]

On my TM3 2021 SR+ LFP the battery heats up about 1 degree per minute while preconditioning. It will be faster when already on SuC as also the heat produced by charging will be added. Ideal for SuC on this battery is about 45deg.

[@Rooonga]

Honest question from someone who’ll probably never be able to afford an electric car. Is that good? To take an hour to charge to 80%? (Obviously I’m used to filling up diesel in about 5 minutes. ) Please don’t flame me. If I didn’t live in a 3rd floor apartment and had the money I’d absolutely buy an electric car. I also believe there’ll be a time when all new cars will be electric, but I worry for people who can’t charge at home because in the UK we have the most expensive electricity in the world. (Ppl do get big discounts though for home charging EVs, but not available to people like me)

[@RoamingNorway]

Nope, I would say 10 minutes is closer to the normal from 40-80% if I optimized properly. In reality, EV owners charge at home over night, so they don't think about waiting for charging. In Norway, EVs are cheaper than combustion cars, so it is a choice for those that can not afford a combustion car.

[@etTuX]

How do you manuelle disable regen?

[@t.d.5804]

LFP !=LFP This here applies to the old CATL LFP, not the BYD LFP Tesla also uses. Got the BYD LFP in my Y SR, batt was 0°C, drove it 20min to the SuC with precondition and it charged 170kW. That old Catl wont do that. Sadly Tesla offers that old battery in the M3H, this car is a no go. The upcoming 2024 LFPs from Catl and Byd are even better, will be uses by Tesla (Y&3) in 2025

[@honesty_-no9he]

You need to AC charge the car to warm it up. Should not be left without a drip charge on a cold night.

[@gileneusz]

now, please repeat this test on 22 kW charger 😁and -20C outside 🥶🥶

[@swiergol79]

Thanks for great video! How is it to charge AC in -15*C overnight 10-100%? I have Highland lfp and this is possibly worst case scenario for me.

[@RoamingNorway]

Thanks! Should be fine, but expect a bit higher losses than usual. The Tesla BMS will keep the battery at a good temperature for AC chargin.

[@swiergol79]

Takk!

[@Marki555]

You must charge at 11kW. Bjorn tested 2.3 kW from ordinary 230V outlet and the power was not sufficient to heat up the battery, so it did not even start charging. Bu the main recommendation is - start charging after driving while the battery is warm, so that it doesn't need to heat it up. The same applies for supercharging - always charge after the drive and not before (if possible).

[@15bit62]

If the battery is cold-soaked it will need to warm it up before charging. Assuming it will want to get from -15C to around 5C, it is heating around 500Kg of thermal mass by 20C. You can do a bit of quick math using the heat capacity of the batteries and get a rough estimate of 2.2-2.5kWh to warm the battery enough to charge. But that ignores heat loss from the battery whilst you are charging it, which will add a bit to that. In practice i find in the deep winter that the car spends quite a long time heating the battery before charging starts. I generally have charging power set at 3-4kW.

[@deaconstjohn8643]

WIlliam, Does your referal work in Canada ?

[@StefanYoutube]

Please do this test with your Model Y with the BYD Blade battery, I think Model Y got an update with V12.4 - 2024.38.7 software. Also the regen limit temperature is lowered now so I can get full regen (85kW) with just 5c temperature of the battery. I did a charging test with battery temperature of just 12c and got 170kW charging at 31% SoC

[@RoamingNorway]

Will do in depth BYD testing this winter ❄️

[@StefanYoutube]

@@RoamingNorway Yes, please do. Model Y with the BYD Blade battery is a hidden gem now with the new update. Also maybe you can do a comparison at the same time 3 and Y so we can see the difference.

[@testi2025]

So this Tesla has only 2,5kw indirect heating for the battery?

[@RoamingNorway]

It is very indirect as well, since it is creating heat from the motor with 2.5 kW from the inverter. I am not sure what kind of heat efficiency we are looking at.

[@TheofficialAnonymousadvice]

What is this device to change Regen

[@RoamingNorway]

S3XY Knob & commander. I say so in the video.

[@markooksanen9345]

How about -25 - -30celsius

[@Hitman006xp]

Your brakes look terrible. You should brake more often and considet the brake burnishing procedure in the Service Mode.

[@jonnyvwjonnyvw2636]

Ein Grund mehr sich kein Elektro Fahrzeug zu holen. Wer möchte schon eine Stunde laden im Winter? Gerade im Winter möchte man möglichst schnell weiter. Mit einem Verbrenner dauert das tanken keine 5min inkl. Bezahlung.

[@Jeroenneman]

These videos are misleading. In real life, you'd just let the car charge at home, leave with a full charge, and on roadtrips the car will have plenty of time to precondition. Source: me, driving a 2019 Model 3 to Serfaus, Brixen, zero issue.

[@vasilinicolaevich854]

Its too much words....

[@davidbushey4651]

that is not cold. unless you're in Florida or something. hahahaha

[@johankarlsson6]

Yesterday we had a snowstorm, -4 and power failure. I was charging my Tesla at a Eviny charger. I started with 16 KW and after 1 hour I had 32 KW and then the power died at the charger. But I had 80 % SOC. Winter can be hard on Teslas.

[@allelectric1330]

We got rid of ours, to much of a hassle, big trouble

[@thomaspersson7387]

I must say I most likley will buy a testa

[@allelectric1330]

You Will be sorry !!

[@zerodelay1630]

def install home charger

[@hkad6252]

Man this is sad.

[@jarosawniekrasz5123]

20-48kW when kia/hyundai can reach 270/320kW...

[@lbgstzockt8493]

At 0 degrees? I doubt that, and I don‘t like Tesla.

[@777Outrigger]

Did'ju even watch the video?

[@jason84]

Oh my sweet summer child, that's not that cold

[@Islamisthecultofsin]

Russians laughing!

[@timberkes7908]

Love your videos , but I'm not sure if I could be that cruel to that gorgeous car.

[@Jungleland33]

I'd walk, cycle, or get a horse before I'd use one of those shitheaps.

[@RoamingNorway]

Cool to have the choice!

[@Tom-dt4ic]

Your loss.

[@JAM_2024]

Ok boomer.

[@vlad2838]

In your day, I’m sure you had to walk to school barefoot in four feet of snow…

[@timoliver8940]

Much more work involved in getting a horse ready for use - hay is more expensive than electricity so feeding is costly and then there’s all the emissions to sweep up……….