Charles Ives: The Eternal Maverick

This work was sponsored by a Humanities New York Public Humanities Grant.
🎶 Support the channel and watch hours of unedited bonus interview content: / classicalnerd
0:00:00 Introduction
0:02:27 I: Charlie & George
0:07:18 II: Connecticut’s Youngest Organist
0:15:54 III: Yale
0:21:10 IV: Horatio Parker
0:29:06 V: Poverty Flat
0:37:12 VI: Evenings & Weekends
0:43:47 VII: Harmony
1:01:00 VIII: Transcendentalism
1:26:32 IX: The Vernacular
1:41:32 X: The Forced Retirement
1:48:10 XI: The Repertoire
1:56:57 XII: The Benefactor
2:10:33 XIII: The Progressive
2:17:38 XIV: The Legacy
2:23:41 Credits & Acknowledgements
📚 In addition to the reading list provided in the credits, James Sinclair's "Descriptive Catalogue of the Music of Charles Ives" (Yale, 1999), built on the pioneering work of John Kirkpatrick, was the primary source for dating Ives' work. Almost all of the dates given are "circa" and based on the best surviving evidence.
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All musical examples, citations, and special thanks are included in the video itself.
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Contact Information:
Questions and comments can be directed to:
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All images and audio in this video are for educational purposes and are thus used here under fair use.

[@j.dstumpy3566]

Hands down one of the best documentaries I've seen!

[@hindemith1922]

Still ahead of its time.

[@houdinididiit]

When I first discovered Ives through a book in the mid 80s, I had to run out and find some recordings. To this day, I cannot believe how little he has talked about. My favorite story about him is when a young Leonard Bernstein premiered his music. By that time Ives was old. He declared that he would not see the premier for certain reasons. Bernstein implored him to attend a private performance at Lincoln Center with the lights turned down so not even the orchestra would see him. Still, he refused. Later his wife revealed that Ives heard the premiere of his music on a tiny kitchen radio that was a late night re-broadcast.

[@markpaterson2053]

At last! A documentary on my favourite American composer.

[@audunstolpe7408]

Pure gold from my favourite musicologist.

[@Scriabinfan593]

This has given me an entirely new appreciation for Ives. Thank you!

[@sr-kt9ml]

wow I am so impressed by the amount of work that went into this. This is absolutely awesome. Great job. And thanks for sharing this for free

[@neo-eclesiastul9386]

I can not believe it! It is finally here! After all of this years, it is here...

[@colincomposer]

This is wonderful. A real labour of love. I have always been a great fan of Ives and his music. I gave what might have been the Australian premiere of the Concord Sonata in 1978 - but who knows or cares about such unimportant details. I performed it with the off-stage flute and even the little bit of solo viola in the first movement. This moment in my musical life was extremely significant, in that studying the work opened me up to so much of C20 music that followed the composition of this mighty work. As an interesting aside, I vividly remember trying out the work for a small unsuspecting audience at a Brisbane college. Following the performance I came out into the auditorium from the backstage area to discover that a poor woman had collapsed from the emotional impact of the music. This really rammed home for me that music has great power - particularly music of the Ivesian variety!

[@tandmark]

An absolutely superb treatment of Ives's legacy, and not only because of its thoroughness. It's the committed partisanship for Ives that I find especially winning.

[@markhammer643]

Ives has been my musical hero for darn near 50 years. Not just for his music, but for the way in which he wove music and composition into his family and work life. I love telling people about his association with Mutual of New York insurance, and the link between Ives, Tommy James and the Shondells, and Billy Idol. I love the anecdote I read in an Ives biography of him stumbling onto a music manuscript in the company safe, that he had composed some years earlier, and being quite impressed with it. I've had the honour of meeting and interviewing Frank Zappa and James Brown - two seminal figures in American music - and I consider Zappa to be the Ives of the latter 20th century, and Ives the Zappa of the first half. For my money, it could be said he anticipated nearly everything in 20th century music, with the exception of electronics. As for the "femininity" of music at the time, historian Ian Whitcomb made the point in his history of popular music "After the Ball" that, in an era when "million sellers" became such on the basis of how much sheet music they sold, much of the popular piano music of the day (late 1800s) was written for the feminine hand. The chord structures were intended to be more compatible with smaller hands that couldn't spread out as far. He also notes that playing the piano was considered a "feminine art" at the time. I would imagine that had much to do with the availability of pianos as items to install in one's parlor., in addition to whatever else was considered to be a proper activity for a young woman to keep her out of trouble, and make her more marriageable. A hundred years earlier, with pianos being a much rarer household possession, I suspect that the association between piano playing and femininity would not have been there, although I leave that to music historians to refute or support. Incidentally, it's a short step from Mozart's variations on "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" to Ives' "Variations on America".

[@Xylus.]

Going in, I just want to say thanks so much for making this. Ives has always been a huge influence on me for the breadth of his musical exploration. Something about the canonization of Ives in texts books felt like it gave teenage me permission to just break or completely disassemble the rules of music in the most exciting ways. I can never know enough about this dude and his works.

[@hoangkimviet8545]

One of the first world-renowned American composers?

[@quickhenrymedia]

Proud of your work and look forward to learning more about Charles Ives!

[@ChipsAplentyBand]

I heard John Kirkpatrick lecture on and then perform Ives' Concord Sonata at Ithaca College's Ford Hall Auditorium in 1975. I especially remember him explaining/demonstrating the specially-made tone cluster board that he would be using and watching him apply it in the upper register with some rapid position shifts up and down along that portion of the keyboard. I think it had a central knob or peg for ready gripping and moving of the board and that the board was covered with some soft material, probably velvet, on the underside so as to slide silently over the keys. CLASSICAL NERD, you have OUTDONE yourself this time around with this Ives presentation. Bravo! and Bravo! again-Don

[@Sevish]

Today I learned about Charles Ives. Thanks for the amazing documentary!

[@steveslivka]

You’ve really created something meaningful here to help people connect with and understand Ives (my hero). A thousand times, thank you.

[@saidtoshimaru1832]

I will always remember how his second symphonic set blew my mind.

[@brianwang1156]

Excited to hear what you would say about the 4th symphony

[@brucerobinson8498]

Important contribution to understanding Ives. Bravo! On a business trip to Danbury I had the chance to visit Ives' childhood home. We must honor this man.

[@armenghazarian3515]

Yay! So excited to watch this knowing how much work you’ve put into it!

[@pablo6733]

Incredible! Without doubt the best Ives documentary out there 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻

[@abelgershfeld]

amazing, its obvious that so much work went into this. You deserve more views.

[@itamarbar9580]

I cannot say I've understood or learned to love Ives yet, even after watching this documentary. I will be playing his Three Places in New England in May-June, so i hope my opinion of him will change then.

[@MaxIsBackInTown]

It’s took two weeks but I finally finished this! Great job!

[@alexfetchina9416]

I always knew you were a fellow Ivesian based on your bookcase, so this video is long awaited, and very much appreciated!

[@user-ss2sn7go7w]

what an enthusiasm!

[@davidwhite2949]

Look forward to diving into this. Charles Ives is one of my favorite composers!

[@teebeedahbow]

Good film. I think the hail whose head gets well hit is the idea that 'reality' always creeps in. It sees to me that any given theme used in Ives apparently as musical material is actually the transcription of a memory from an occasion in the real world - it is not a song it is the song's performance and the performances context. Thus the 'real' of the music is in the memory. A hymn tune is not simply quoted but the form of the occasion being remembered is quoted, as if all of these memories were circling constantly until the piece comes to an end. The form of those memories has an actual musical function. It is often the forward drive of the music. It is this intro/extra aspect which drives a certain kind of musicologist crazy, as it deconstructs any idea of musical purity.

[@matthewberka1842]

Such a vaulable and well researched record of Ives' work and life! Great job!

[@PalaciosSommer]

Congratulations!

[@reggietkatter]

Incredible work. Thank you for this wonderful documentary film.

[@daniellemeyer5159]

Thank you so much for presenting this thorough and wonderful work! I have been a big fan of his music for 30 years but have put off learning much about him for fear it would cloud the way I hear him. I read the first chapter of an Ives biography 25 years ago but chickened out and put it down so I could just hear Ives the way I hear it. That 30 year abstinence of insight ended tonight and I am so grateful to have learned so much more about him, his life and how this music I have loved for so long came to be available for all. I'm grateful to all that participated in this, be it thru funding, presentation, editing, etc. But most of all thanks to Charles for his incredible contributions to the human experience.

[@leonardosilva6669]

You should be so proud of yourself. The effort and passion you put into it is just incredible. You opened a world for me. THANK YOU

[@colefortier]

This documentary is unbelievable! What a labor of love that pays respects to him in such a detailed way. I had the great fortune of watching it over the last few days, learning so much about a composer I have always loved. I feel inspired to take some of his ideals into my own compositional work again. Thank you so much once again for sharing your incredible work with us, your eloquent speaking and formatting is of the same high caliber of Ives and his work!

[@JT-qd4jh]

I wrote my senior thesis on Ives (spoke with several of the scholars in the video, went to Ives's Redding home, the AAAL studio, the Housatonic, the St Gaudens, and the Putnam Memorial), having had the epiphany that his music and politics alike are quintessential reflections of "Yankeedom" to this day and all put sound and depth to my homesickness for Connecticut when I was away. Even traveled to Zurich to watch Nagano conduct the 4th. Hell, I turned it all into a book about what it means to be "of" New England. But I wish this documentary existed when I was writing: it's a well-researched, great tribute which should be a primer to any Ives scholar. Bravo!

[@robbyr9286]

Almost 2 & 1/2 hours- wow!

[@MaxIsBackInTown]

This channel is really underrated!

[@brianbergeron164]

What an accomplishment! Can't even imagine how much work went into this! Exceptional, important work

[@rw31415]

A superb & informative piece of work - much to think & feel about. Many thanks.

[@ValseMelancolique]

I just heard Hamelin play the Concord Sonata - Now I’m suddenly interested in Ives a lot more! Still, I like his Variations on America the most since it’s the first Composition I heard by him many years ago. I don’t know much about him as a Composer so this video is nice!

[@enricocavallo4386]

The final chord of Ives' 2nd symphony always makes me smile (58:57).

[@asimplenameichose151]

Brilliant. Thank you so much for undertaking this and making it widely available. It's so well done. I intended to learn and perform the Concord (in addition to some pieces by Messiaen) while studying for my first music degree many years ago but was discouraged from doing so (both at the time, and now long afterward), not because I would be unable to perform it, but because my professor at the time thought that no one listening / evaluating in the department (much less the students and the wider community audience) would really understand or appreciate what I was doing. I still have one or two editions of the sheet music. Perhaps I'll get it out again when my children move out. Thanks again.

[@MattLeGroulx]

Fantastic work. So happy that this exists. Thank you.

[@adrianholmes9485]

Truly beautiful film that opens up the music of Ives for all. I first came across Ives in the 1980s, and was lucky enough to listen to the Concorde sonata as my initiation. That piece alone told me that here was a musical soul to compare with Beethoven is his later piano sonatas. Ives is still as relevant and fresh today as 100 years ago. I would leave it there but I have long been tempted to ask if you would cover the music of George Crumb? Another American composer steeped in the American spirit, and very little known or recognised.

[@peters9744]

Amazing to listen to you musical geniuses. 🎉

[@ampersand64]

This is an insanely good documentary! The totality and scope of it is really hard to come by outside of just reading a biography.

[@SOSmysteries]

Absolutely amazing job

[@michaelmeyer7426]

Fantastic documentary! I wrote a college paper on "Ives, Isadora Duncan, and the Genteel Tradition" so long ago, and this doc brings all of that back (in spades--Neely Bruce was at UI-Urbana when I was there). The care taken here to integrate Ives' personality (he shared with Gen. Grant a photographic memory),with his desire to "see anew" and innovate (both in music and in business) is outstanding. Great job! Thanks to all who put this together!!

[@stephenmorton6732]

I am so excited for this! I named my son after Ives. Great video!!!

[@vrkoven]

Me too!

[@patcupo]

Loved this documentary. Thank you so much for hard work! I knew a lot of Ives’ work going into it, but I learned a ton, especially about his connections with other 20th century composers. Also, I used to live right around the corner from his 11th St. apartment in the Village. I passed by all the time and didn’t know he lived there. Thanks again!

[@sunsunsunh]

This really made me appreciate the work of Charles Ives. Incredible documentary.

[@joseluisherreralepron9987]

This is a true labor of love and I applaud the work that went into this wonderful video...thank you so much! I've loved Ives since I heard the Tilson-Thomas, CSO 4th years ago. It's a recording I really enjoy when everyone in the house and the neighbors are gone so I can listen at concert volume...that second movement is a true marvel.

[@neilcameronable]

Thank you so much for this wonderful documentary.2 hours or so of an education on my fave American composer.An utter joy to learn more about him and his music.I dont think can be bettered anywhere.I am certainly rushing back to my Ives collection over this holiday season.Thank you

[@WhiteTreeRightful]

with how often I have a compositional problem and then you upload a video that tells me exactly where to look I feel like these videos are made for me specifically

[@tomLEMURbradley]

This is absolutely excellent! Thank you!

[@josephmcphee9143]

That was amazing. I knew very little about Ives and you put his whole life and works into context for me. Thank you

[@hugosanchez7599]

What a great documentary! I think Im gonna deep dive into Ives' catalogue

[@vrkoven]

This is a splendid documentary, kudos to you for making it. The mix of biography, analysis and historical context is terrific. One problem I saw (well, actually, heard) was the low audio quality in Jan Swafford's interview; it was virtually impossible for me to follow what he was saying--is there any editing magic you can perform to improve that, or have you already done as much as can be done? On a more general level, I'm greatly distressed that, going into his 150th anniversary, Ives, who I agree with you is America's greatest composer (so far), is being disserved by the larger American musical community. We've been through this before: in 1974 his centenary was vastly under-celebrated. Alas, the prevailing artistic ethos in the 20th and 21st centuries has been to pare down and not attempt a grand vision, and a grand vision is exactly what Ives projected. Here's my best Ives-related anecdote: I attended the premiere of the Fourth Symphony in 1964 (tell me where you got the footage!). As Stokowski was making his explanatory remarks, the hall (Carnegie) resounded with a ginormous sneeze. Stokie said, "well, that's about the only thing that's *not* in the score!" It wasn't until many years later, when I spoke with a friend of mine who it turned out was also there, that I discovered who it was who sneezed: it was Julian Myrick.

[@ClassicalNerd]

I boosted and edited as much as I could, but ultimately, Zoom audio is only as good as the interviewee's mic. (This is one of many reasons I spent three whole days typing out captions.)

[@davidkent2804]

When I was in music school they told me never to use some of the devices in composition mentioned here and never taught Ives, other than in passing with some degree of rudimentary dismissal. In short, it took a while - too long - for me to resolve to never to silence the muse. Taught properly, that is the glory and essence of Ives to me. In all the ways you describe, it just works. And it has endured amazingly well.

I discovered Ives like two years ago, and he has become one of my favourites composers as well, I can feel nothing but admiration for a man that worked so hard and with such will to write a music that was almost completely dismissed in its time. This documentary was really well-made, and it reminds me of Tilson's documentary in the level of perception and cohesive analysis of the man, the music and the times not as different aspects but as a whole. Greatly appreciated video.

[@kenforfia5067]

Beyond excellent! Amazing how something that seems ‘known’ can continue to exist in obscurity.

[@rodwarner]

Thanks! Wonderful doc on one of my favourite creators…

[@Chesterton7]

Good work. Thank you.

[@ericrakestraw664]

I discovered your channel through Ives almost 7 years ago when you made a "Great Pieces" video about the Concord Sonata. You've come a long way since then. Keep up the great work!

[@BrendaBoykin-qz5dj]

CONGRATULATIONS, THOMAS!!!!⭐⭐🌹⭐⭐🌹⭐⭐ Watched it all the way through: much learned and much to cherish. Thank you,Maestro.⭐⭐🌹⭐⭐

[@gepmrk]

A lot of the kind of things that Varese, Schoenberg, Webern et al were doing, got absorbed into the 'language' of horror movie soundtracks. But still, no one knows what to do with Charles Ives' dissonances.

[@1918SMLE]

Incredible work put into this. Wow!

[@ShanevsDCsniperr]

beautiful documentary

[@ShanevsDCsniperr]

in fact, i just joined your patreon, thanks for all your work!

[@LightIndustrialLatin]

magnificent… thank you for work. grateful subscriber

[@bazingacurta2567]

I've missed you!

[@themeofsuddenroundabout]

thank you so much for this documentary!!

[@heatherduthie9609]

Congratulations on a great production ❤

[@johnrimkunas149]

Brilliant! Thank you so much for this video! I planned to watch it in installments, but found myself riveted to it from beginning to end. Thank you for all your research, and the portrait you have created of this great and very complex American artist!

[@davidwhite2949]

Talk about ahead of his time - goodness!

[@Warp75]

Excellent 👏🏻

[@i_am_a_music_maker5212]

Great video! Ysaÿe next

[@alexchristodoulou]

That’s a solid documentary on Ives, well done 👏👏 and thank you!

[@vlaskine]

Loved the documentary, thanks for making it!

[@AjStillabower]

yes.

[@Toggitryggva]

Superb!

[@user-bz9lf8cf5y]

John Rheinhart, in his doctoral dissertation, I believe, coined the phrase, “simultaneity of expression”. It means much more than dissonance.

[@w6msu]

Incroyable.

[@user-df3eb1cq1v]

Would love a great composers video on the late Ryuichi Sakamoto

[@mingmonk]

Great!

[@Pious888]

Yes!

[@giuliomancini975]

if you still take requests, i'd love to see a video about Karajan :)

[@user-vy7fp8np1l]

I thought, after 3 months of silence, you had perhaps retired from You Tube...but now I see why you 'vanished' for 12 weeks...because it must have taken you that time to create this monumental tribute to a magnificent composer. Question: I enjoyed your video that featured the 1st movement of your symphony. Have you managed to find an ensemble to record any of the other movements yet?

[@user-cz6zu9xi6b]

This is a fascinating piece of work. Thank you so much for your work. I am a linguist whose enjoys music as a pastime and have always been fascinated by what tiny bit of information I had about Ives. So, a couple of questions from a non-musician. You talk about Walter Damrosch of the New York Symphony "leading a reading session" of Ives' 1st Symphony. And you say "requests for readings of the 2nd and 3rd Symphonies went unheeded." What was a "reading session"? Did a bunch of the people from the orchestra get together and play through the piece without an audience for their own entertainment? Did they perform a scaled-down version for an audience as a chamber group? Who is the subject of your passive sentence about "requests going unheeded"? Did they write to Ives but he ignored their requests for "sheet music" (sorry the layman's terminology)? Was their request to the powers-that-be at the New York Symphony and those people refused to let these musicians turn this into a concert? You have a wonderful video and I have heaps of ignorance!

[@ClassicalNerd]

A "reading session" is where an ensemble will get together and sight-read a piece without any intention of recording or performing it. Today it's mostly used in a pedagogical context; large ensembles will "read" student works so students can hear them, what works, what doesn't, etc. Ives' connections to Parker facilitated this reading. Ives went on to ask Damrosch to do the same for his other extant symphonies, but was blown off. I think Damrosch was reading the First as a favor to an old pal and couldn't have cared less about Ives' music.

[@retromograph3893]

Forget Oppenheimer, this is how you do a biopic!

[@cobblewall88]

suggestions: Conlon Nancarrow, George Crumb, Richard Barrett, James Dillon, Gyorgy Kurtag

[@yat_ii]

I think he's already done all of those

[@theangryginger7582]

Woo!

[@josephgerard5473]

I second what that chap below wrote a couple of days ago - is there any news about your symphony, any other movements played or recorded? You didn't reply to him so I'm giving you this reminder! Oh and top marks for this Charles Ives documentary by the way. I admit I'd never even heard of the chap. I'm not much of a classical music fan so I use your channel to slowly but surely educate myself whiloe I still have a few functional brain cells to smash together.

[@hendrikbarboritsch7003]

At minute 53:50 the trumpet's last note (in the audio) is a C, while in the score it is B natural. Anyone know which version was of the "dissonant changes" that Ives made? (IMO probably the B is the changed note) Great Documentary!!!!

[@ClassicalNerd]

As I recall, the "question" motif flip-flopped between the two, and Ives went back and forth on which one it should end on. (Johnny Reinhard, for his part, believes that the answer to the titular "question" has to do with the difference in these intervals, though in a just-intonation context.)

[@vrkoven]

I think Ives was very careful that where the strings were playing a C, the question ended with the B, and vice versa.@@ClassicalNerd

[@gjs9366]

Tour de force

[@klscomus]

I am going to be the bearer of news that folks may or may not accept. This documentary, insightful as it is, is missing several folks who also championed Ives and deserve mention, chief among them Bernard Herrmann (1911-75). Though we remember him today for his innovative film scores, he was also one of Ives' earliest champions discovering his music in 1927 and writing to him which led to an everlasting friendship until Ives' death in 1954. Herrmann, by way of his position as conductor of the CBS Symphony Orchestra, programmed several works of Ives including the first and third movements of the fourth symphony, the first national broadcast of the third symphony and several of his shorter works. As a guest conductor with the BBC Symphony he also introduced the two movements of the fourth to European audiences in 1946, and ten years later gave the first European broadcast performance of the second symphony with the London Symphony Orchestra, which would also be the orchestra Herrmann used to record the same work neary two decades later. Yet Ives' influence also plays an important role in Herrmann's compositions. Without it, we would not have the montage sequences from Citizen Kane, the brilliant Americana scores such as The Devil and Daniel Webster, The Kentuckian and Williamsburg: The Story of a Patriot, or the modernist moments of his penultimate score Obsession where the choral-orchestral section pays homage to the final movement of Ives' fourth symphony. Herrmann's concert works such as the Currier & Ives Suite and the scherzo of his only symphony also owe a debt to Ives, who is also the dedicatee of Herrmann's canata Moby Dick. Without Ives we would not have Herrmann. Hopefully a future documentary on Ives will call on many of us Herrmannites to testify to make sure his importance is never excluded.

[@Fangednoumena]

“Why are these early 20th century composers so depressed?” World war will do that to you. Great video.

[@alcyonecrucis]

Big news

[@zetateal6428]

Goodness! Most disconcerting, disharmonious music I've ever heard!!?