Milton Babbitt’s Musical Tetris

0:00 Introduction
0:30 I: From Jackson to Princeton
8:27 II: Babbitt, Cold Warrior?
15:47 III: “Who Cares if You Listen?”
28:11 IV: Integral Serialism & Combinatoriality
35:05 V: Babbitt & Synthesis
47:19 VI: Lynes, Partitions, Arrays, & Superarrays
55:32 VII: The Time-Point Technique
1:02:52 VIII: Dean of American Serialism
📚 SOURCES/FURTHER READING:
📚 (note that citations fall only under the chapter to which they most strongly pertain)
0:30 I: From Jackson to Princeton
"On Milton Babbitt: Progressive Artistic Research, Decorous Pranks, and Pig-Stand Jazz" by Joshua Banks Mailman: doi.org/10.1080/07494467.2021... (Contemporary Music Review [CMR], Volume 40, Issue 2-3)
www.jamesromig.com/uploads/5/...
preparedguitar.blogspot.com/20...
preparedguitar.blogspot.com/20...
8:27 II: Babbitt, Cold Warrior?
“‘Music for the Masses’: Milton Babbitt’s Cold War Music Theory” by Martin Brody (The Musical Quarterly, Summer 1993, Vol. 77, No. 2): music.arts.uci.edu/abauer/4.3...
“Modern Music and After (3rd Edition)” by Paul Griffiths (Oxford, 2010)
15:47 III: “Who Cares if You Listen?”
“The Collected Essays of Milton Babbitt,” ed. Stephen Peles (Princeton, 2003)
“Words About Music” by Milton Babbitt (ed. Stephen Dembski and Joseph N. Straus, UW Press, 1987)
28:11 IV: Integral Serialism & Combinatoriality
“Listening to Babbitt: Perception and Analysis of Milton Babbitt’s Du for Soprano and Piano” by Erin Sullivan (MA thesis, UGA, 2005): getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/sulliv...
35:05 V: Babbitt & Synthesis
"The Private and Public Lives of a Lost Concerto: Milton Babbitt’s Concerti for Violin, Orchestra, and Synthesized Sound" by Julia Glenn: doi.org/10.1080/07494467.2021... (CMR, 40, 2-3)
"Concerti e Concerti: Babbitt’s Mysterious Bedfellows" by Jonathan Dawe: doi.org/10.1080/07494467.2021... (CMR, 40, 2-3)
• Milton Babbitt on Ele...
47:19 VI: Lynes, Partitions, Arrays, & Superarrays
“An Introduction to the Music of Milton Babbitt” by Andrew Mead (Princeton, 1994)
“The Phenomena of ‘Phonemena’: Structure and Realization in Milton Babbitt’s Work for Soprano and Synthesized Tape” by Mikel Kuehn (PhD dissertation, Eastman, 1995)
“Milton Babbitt’s Composition for Guitar: An Analytic Overview” by Todd Seelye (DMA diss., U. Ariz., 1988)
55:32 VII: The Time-Point Technique
"Pulling a Fast More-Than-One: Milton Babbitt’s Time-point Practice" by Joseph Dubiel: doi.org/10.1080/07494467.2021... (CMR, 40, 2-3)
1:02:52 VIII: Dean of American Serialism
“Force of Nature” by James Ricci: deconstructing-jim.blogspot.c...
"Rethinking Babbitt’s ‘Serious’ Music as Play" by Alison Maggart: doi.org/10.1080/07494467.2021... (CMR, 40, 2-3)
🎶 Support the channel: / classicalnerd
This was requested by Opera, LOOCH THEMOOCH, 洪孟思, Libertarian Communist Platform, Dave Henry, Gallimaufry, and patron Alice Wyan, who DOUBLED the weight of this request. See all requests at lentovivace.com/classicalnerd....
Clips used under fair use include:
• MILTON BABBITT Portrai...
• Milton Babbitt on Rap ...
• Milton Babbitt-demonst...
----------
Music:
- Milton Babbitt: Partitions (1957), performed by Augustus Arnone [original: jk8Z8Wo2tcM]
- Thomas Little: Dance! #2, performed by Rachel Fellows, Michael King, and Bruce Tippette
- Arnold Schoenberg: “Mässige Viertel” from Three Pieces, Op. 11 (1909, rev. 1924), performed by Peter Bradley-Fulgoni and available on IMSLP: tinyurl.com/yckzb88f
- Babbitt: Composition for Twelve Instruments (1948), conducted by Ralph Shapey [original: W_ErRFJRL7g]
- Babbitt: String Quartet No. 3 (1970), performed by (probably) the Fine Arts Quartet [original: mkvR6grAgOA]
- J.S. Bach: Brandenburg Concerto No. 3 in G major, BWV 1048, performed by A Far Cry and available on IMSLP: tinyurl.com/yykz5yum
- Babbitt: Piano Concerto No. 2 (1998), performed by Conor Hanick and the Juilliard Orchestra conducted by Jeffrey Milarsky [original: XUdgKl7ZMN4]
- Babbitt: Composition for Synthesizer (1960) [original: bRzFhY7hygY]
- Babbitt: Philomel (1964) [original: 3SMR5WIgSUg]
- Babbitt: All Set (1957), performed by the NEC Wind Ensemble conducted by Charles Peltz [original: TYsDztD9iv4]
- Babbitt: Composition for Four Instruments (1948), performed by Time’s Arrow [original: _fkx5IYfiPs]
- Babbitt: Semi-Simple Variations (1956), MIDI render
- Babbitt: Post-Partitions (1966), MIDI render [original: rBvgd0LYUyw]
----------
nerdofclassical [at] gmail.com
/ classicalnerd
/ the_classical_nerd
----------
This video is for educational purposes and falls under fair use statutes.

[@ClassicalNerd]

*ASSORTED SHOW NOTES/CORRECTIONS/ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY:* While there is not nearly enough character space to cite all of its constituent article names within the description, the volume *"Playing (with) Babbitt in the 21st Century" (Contemporary Music Review, Volume 40, Issue 2-3)* [ www.tandfonline.com/toc/gcmr20/40/2-3 ] was a significant source (especially for the first chapter of this video) and an excellent place for interested viewers to dive even deeper into Babbitt's music and cultural context. Of those articles, I especially recommend Joshua Banks Mailman's _On Milton Babbitt: Progressive Artistic Research, Decorous Pranks, and Pig-Stand Jazz,_ Alison Maggart's _Rethinking Babbitt’s ‘Serious’ Music as Play,_ Julia Glenn's _The Private and Public Lives of a Lost Concerto: Milton Babbitt’s Concerti for Violin, Orchestra, and Synthesized Sound,_ and Joseph Dubiel's _Pulling a Fast More-Than-One: Milton Babbitt’s Time-point Practice._ For those interested in a one-stop shop of all of Babbitt's music, Erik Carlson's amazing album project, available to listen for free, has recently come to my attention: erikcarlson.bandcamp.com/album/slowly-expanding-milton-babbitt-album Those interested in exploring Babbitt's musical practices should definitely find a copy of Andrew Mead's book _An Introduction to the Music of Milton Babbitt._ It's far more in-depth than this video, and even then only seems to scratch the surface of the stunning depth of Babbitt's work. If you're interested in the social politics of the early serial Babbitt, Martin Brody's article _“‘Music for the Masses’: Milton Babbitt’s Cold War Music Theory_ is, again, a much more comprehensive look. I can't recommend all of these volumes enough. 0:26 - The support of patron *Alice Wyan* _doubled_ the weight of this request! If you want to speed up the process of making certain videos, consider becoming a patron for as little as $2/month. Patrons also cast tie breaking votes for equally-requested videos (which is why this one is on Babbitt and not Luciano Berio). 3:53 - Bauer taught at NYU starting in 1926, but 1930 was when she became a professor. 48:12 - No _fewer,_ not no _less._ 52:40 - Non-superscript 7 _or higher_ (i.e. any segment larger than a hexachord). 54:42 - *Denis* Smalley, not David. (Thanks to MJ L for pointing out this verbal typo.)

[@jameshelgeson4668]

It might be good to foreground this bibliography in the video, in particular your use of JB Mailman's article (although I think this would entail uploading again). If that's possible, perhaps pinning this comment at the top of the comment stream?

[@robkeeleycomposer]

Thankyou for your reply, very helpful and much appreciated. And yes, I can understand, as a Brit how in the 1930’s USA it would have been a stretch to be anything other than mildly on the left, post-New Deal. Especially given his Jewishness (non-observant, I assume). Just out of interest, have you come across Jonah Goldberg’s book Liberal Fascism? Once again, Thankyou for this and all your excellent, informative and always entertaining talks. Would you consider doing one on my teacher Franco Donatoni?

[@coolhandphilip]

Babbitt's Intro to Contemporary Music proved him to be not just a musical genius but a comedic one as well. Babbitt was an incredibly funny lecturer and a true gentleman.

[@irabraus9478]

Indeed! When I asked his opinion of Max Reger, he replied, "Did you know that Max Reger died the very day I was born? How's that for transsubstantiation of souls!"

[@MorganHayes_Composer.Pianist]

that quick wit is what comes to the fore in his best pieces.

[@coolhandphilip]

@@irabraus9478 Did he say transubstantiation or transmigration?

[@gljm]

I always found it amazing that Stephen Sondheim studied with Babbitt.

[@psijicassassin7166]

Sondheim's music will be listened to by future generations, though.

[@spocksmusic]

@@psijicassassin7166 "Meow!"

[@mathmanmrt]

i first came upon the music of milton babbitt when i was 14. i found it compelling. i also heard some of john cage's music, bach's music, and beethoven's music around the same time and found parts of their oeuvre very compelling as well. from my teen years through this day as i approach my sixty-first birthday, i find the value and aesthetic worth of all of these composers as being the same, i find that merzbow is equal in value to slipknot is equal in value to muse . . . as t.s. eliot said "the moment of the rose and the moment of the yew tree are of equal duration." thank you for this description and discussion.

[@MorganHayes_Composer.Pianist]

one of my favourite pieces by him is the Solo Requiem . Apparently a new recording is on the horizon :)

[@timothytikker1147]

I saw Babbitt when he visited the University of Oregon in the early 1990s when soprano Susan Narucki sang one of his works for tape and voice. After his lecture, he happened over to the Mason and Hamlin piano in this room -- a building some distance from UO's School of Music -- and remarked "this is a really nice piano!" as he surprised us with a jazzy chord progression!

[@Skimaskkass]

Another excellent video waking my brain up in a way few KZbinrs can match. We need people like you making this kind of educational content explaining things that are often times out of the way. It's very inspiring to me. Thank you.

[@luxinveritate3365]

That Bach and forth between Babbitt and Bach tho had me laughing. Well put together.

[@mannfishh]

18:15 just a quick correction, a huge bureaucratic system did invest in abstract expressionism in general and jackson pollock in particular

[@attichatchsound-bobkowal5328]

There seems to be an ironic inverse effect in Babbitt's formation of his kind of musical environment: The more seemingly random the musical piece - the more thorough and intricate the codification is required to appropriately describe (or maybe decipher?) the piece.

[@DefamedRice]

I'm so happy to see someone give Babbitt a fair shake. If you ignore all the theory, his music is warm and humorous. Works like Aria da Capo, the Clarinet Quintet, Composition for Four Instruments are certainly NOT the cold idea of serialism we expect out of the style thanks to the misinterpretation of Webern as an aromantic (no doubt thanks to craft and boulez producing the driest interpretations ever)

[@IgnatzKolisch]

Wow. Thank you for this. It's absolutely amazing, and I'm not using that word lightly. I'm never going to like even one second of Babbit's music, but he's a fascinating character, and having you try to dumb down his techniques and explain them for laypeople was done brilliantly. Me getting lost in all that was no fault of yours, I can assure you! I doubt anyone could explain it better, it's just far beyond my comprehension. I'm impressed with all your biographical videos, but this one may be your best yet... and I say that hating the music of its subject! I was riveted through the whole thing, and it's fair to say that when you get someone with hyper-conservative musical taste like myself enthralled over learning about a hyper-modernist like Babbit, you're doing something right!

[@tommyron]

Terrifically clear, thoroughly enjoyable presentation. Many thanks & bravo!

[@therandomvideocreator2928]

can you please do Manuel De Falla?

[@paulchristopher2135]

Great lecture. Love Babbitt’s music. Performed several of his pieces. Well worth the effort to enter his musical world.

[@thibomeurkens2296]

Great video! Could you maybe redo your videos on Scriabin or Sorabji? I found them very interesting but I would love to hear you dig deeper into their music as you do in your never videos (such as this one).

[@ClassicalNerd]

I only have so much time to devote to these while getting a PhD.

[@thibomeurkens2296]

@@ClassicalNerd damn your able do create this wonderful content while doing a study? Mad respect

[@strain3652]

Sorabji would be amazing

[@mikeytaylor3901]

Please do a video on pianist Scott Ross

[@ClassicalNerd]

Duly noted: lentovivace.com/classicalnerd.html

[@chutton988]

Wow wow wow! Great video, thank you! I’m a Schoenbergian and enjoyed it very much. The bandcamp album in the pinned comment made for fascinating listening.

[@andrewlevin7586]

2:23 I remember studying this piece in my 20th Century Music Analysis class in college! We identified and analyzed the sets Schoenberg used. I believe this was a form of free atonality (no twelve tone matrix). Fun times!

[@gon9684]

It's one of the most analyzed pieces

[@SB-yx6rb]

1:03:51 I jumped out of my seat with joy when you mentioned that album cover; it's a wonderfully horrific feverdream of bad taste.

[@RTCMAHL]

I met him around 2003. He was kinda grumpy but I heard great stories from his former students.

[@SnowyFinland]

The best explanation of what's going on generally with modern classical music and in particular Babbitt's music I've ever heard. Superb. Many thanks for the effort you've put into this, Classical Nerd.

[@musicalintentions]

What a well-made and informative essay! Thank you.

[@sileno_atelier]

I really like your approach on every video, your channel is pure gold. "Academic" music in the post (30 years) war era seem to be marked by deconstructionism. There is a phenomena that occurs on every "music" school when they have to justify their existence. The explanation of the music is far more important than the music itself, wich is a kind of contradiction. Music only as a coherent system of events is so empty.

[@robkeeleycomposer]

Brilliant, thorough and entertaining. The politcal/cold war stuff is especially fascinating.

[@eliotmccann2589]

YAY!! Been looking forwrd to a new video!

[@garymiddleclass]

Thanks! I’m really impressed with your ability to express some pretty esoteric musical concepts in a clear and concise way. Your videos are my first choice for trying to share these ideas with others. Especially liked your video about dodecaphonic music and also the one about set theory, a subject that I wasn’t familiar with

[@alcyonecrucis]

These videos are on track to hit 10 hours if the trend continues...

[@ClassicalNerd]

I don't think any video will ever be longer than my 1.5+ hours on Duke Ellington-although I've come close (and will again soon enough).

[@fotgjengeren]

Milton Babbitt on Bandcamp. That’s really cool. And thanks for the video, of course! The last few sections especially

[@dankmemesdeaddreams2309]

Amazing video

[@MaximilianMKGill]

Thanks man for the videos I really really really appreciate it.

[@UtsyoChakraborty]

Thank you for this!!

[@mackcotton635]

Loved this video, thanks for the massive effort that undoubtedly went in to puttting it together! Weird to hear about Andrew Mead, he taught me my second semester of music theory, lol.

[@nicholasjagger6557]

Thank you Thomas, this is fantastic, especially after a week of Covid, a welcome back to my world. I was reminded of Cage's difficulties in completing a second set of the Freeman Etudes because he'd forgotten the system, which was reconstructed by James Pritchett. I just think this kind of work is the best of being human, like the vast intellectual structures of the great religions. As ever, this has cost me money. There's so much synergy between process in modern music and (my field) the visual arts. I think you might have been a bit hard on Boulez; there's a German documentary of him rehearsing Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra with the Berlin Phil on tour which shows his nicer side. French intellectual politics were a necessary arena.

[@ClassicalNerd]

I like making Boulez jokes-maybe I could have been more clear that _early_ Boulez had a much nastier streak, and that he mellowed out later. (Although anyone Boulez-curious would probably just watch my Boulez video, lol.) Hope all is well in your recuperation!

[@Cryseris]

Can you do a video on Liszt? I've looked through your channel and can't seem to find one.

[@Buckleupbucko]

Every time you make a video, I get closer to becoming a LITERAL. MUSIC. DEMIGOD.

[@brendaboykin3281]

Thanx, Thomas🌹🌹🌹🌹

[@TdF_101]

It says a lot of you as a composer if you're mostly known for a bitter essay. Ever country has a 'Babbit' ... out of touch, frustrated for not being as successful as they wanted to be, attached to insular academia and job and feeding the lie that genius is misunderstood and impossible to play.

[@gon9684]

I don't think that's fair at all. I think his music is pretty respected, I never seen his ideas or mood as frustrated... The essay isn't nearly as bitter as people make it out to be, it's not going against other types of music, I don't think he ever did that, I think it's just meant to say that "a piece of music might not be liked or particularly well known, but it can be of great theoretical value", and he saw music technique and studies a lot like maths, in the sense that it is great to have a niche of highly competent technical people pushing the boundaries... Hard to explain well, but it's along those lines, he defends composers and musicians to be able to live off their work without having to sell them per say, but working it's systems in an academic style/setting

[@mikeytaylor3901]

Wish you had a podcast

[@stevehinnenkamp5625]

Amazing endeavor! A little too much information for a 70 year old musician. As a 19 year old student of Boulanger in '73-74 I still subscribe to her dictum: simplicity of expression though complex, will always reign Supreme if you consider the listener.

[@brendaboykin3281]

Thank you, Steve. I'll use this motto in my Jazz Vocal songwriting. Once again, thank you. 🌹🌹🔥🌹🌹

[@MorganHayes_Composer.Pianist]

"if you consider the listener..." that dictum applies wonderfully to some, but not all music. I rather doubt Beethoven gave much consideration to the listeners or players of the time when he wrote the 'Grosse Fugue' for String quartet? Even now, it's a jarring listen, and so it should be. Always interesting to hear from a student of Boulanger though!

[@christinaslotin7905]

Can you talk about Franz Liszt please? He’s interesting with technique and theory?

[@jgendiaz]

Amazing video!!!

[@Vanium_G5]

good video! was wondering if you could do a video on myaskovsky, sabaneyev, or wyschnegradsky?

[@ClassicalNerd]

Duly noted.

[@psijicassassin7166]

Can you cover more humanistic modern composers like John Corigliano and Henri Dutilleux? Looking forward to it!

[@bernabefernandeztouceda7315]

Dutilleux, that's garbage

[@Karamazov9]

Humanistic? You mean trite and reactionary?

[@jasonmp85]

To believe Babbitt wasn’t intimately concerned with the limits of human experience is to miss the entire point of this guy’s fantastic (in the sense it nearly defies belief) life!

[@bart-v]

Babbitt: IMHO the best American composer

[@psijicassassin7166]

The sounds he put together can be composed by AI today. Your best composer is a robot that was a slave to rules, permutations and algorithms.

[@bernabefernandeztouceda7315]

​@@psijicassassin7166cant ai do a Bach type fugue too??

[@moondog50002000]

I make tonal squares from the square of Venus , The Sun and such . Any 7 note scale can fit into the 7 x 7 square of Venus

[@ilirllukaci5345]

I always had a question about guys like Babbitt, Xenakis, Boulez, etc. If they had devoted themselves purely to careers in mathematics or engineering, would any of them have been as well known as they were? Just wondering.

[@ClassicalNerd]

Xenakis, probably-he did some phenomenal work under Le Corbusier. Hard to say for sure with the others, as Babbitt and Boulez seem to have been more laser-focused on music.

[@edwardgivenscomposer]

only for designing buildings and bridges that collapse.

[@MrAkifusion]

Great, as always! No reserve this time ;)

[@BrianJosephMorgan]

Please discuss Bernd Alois Zimmermann.

[@ClassicalNerd]

Duly noted: lentovivace.com/classicalnerd.html

[@spocksmusic]

Still a very complicated concept - but this helps. Very well explained.

[@DrMarianus]

Could you do a bio on Leroy Anderson please?

[@ClassicalNerd]

Duly noted.

[@RModillo]

Bernstein gave a limerick competition to the NY Phil when they were having trouble learning Babbitt's music. The winner: There was a composer named Babbitt With a most peculiar habit. Each day around noon, He'd go into a swoon Scoring piece after piece like a rabbit.

[@johnpcomposer]

Of all the videos you've presented on these unique modern compositional theories, this is by far the driest method and least musically motivated way of making music I've ever heard. Exhausting every possibility for combining rows of pitches, rhythms etc in ways nobody can really understand. Music is an art not a science. Science informs many forms of art and techniques but shouldn't subsume it or dictate to it. Time may well find his efforts misguided. And leading us further away from why music moves us. Brilliant job talking about it as usual.

[@Cleekschrey]

But the music sounds great

[@MorganHayes_Composer.Pianist]

@@Cleekschrey couldn't agree more.

[@jasonmp85]

Love the video! But: please figure out your camera exposure or do a pass to bring it up in post… it’s at least a full stop low and it strains my eyes at a brightness setting otherwise usable everywhere else…

[@JG_1998]

The streets needed this, Babbitt is a legend. But please, for the love of god, put out the Liszt video before making any more on avant garde/modern composers. Also I was pleasantly surprised to see that the guy who came up with the Fast Fourier Transform was somehow involved in Babbitt's life! The FFT is an engineers best friend. Also your point around 27:50 is a great one: Engineers or Physicists are just as likely as anyone to find serialist music to be unlistenable. I am an engineer and while I can appreciate highly dissonant music, pieces that are entirely atonal/mathematical have never made sense to me. Music and math should remain separate.

[@GoldenScarab45]

Why don’t you listen to more avant garde modern composers instead next time you want to put on Liszt

[@JG_1998]

@@GoldenScarab45 I do listen to avant garde and modern composers such as Stockhausen, Cage, Feinberg, etc, (Marc-Andre Hamelin is my favorite modern composer). The only thing I don't listen to is total serialist music. I find Late Liszt, Stravinsky, Scriabin, etc. to be far more interesting than a lot of fully atonal 20th century music, because it's experimental, but still listenable. When I talk about Liszt I'm really not talking about his "basic" stuff like the Etudes or Hungarian Rhapsodies (although they are quite good). I'm talking about more radical pieces like his 2nd ballade, harmonies poétiques et religieuses, his "atonal" bagatelle, etc. The main reason I want classical nerd to do a Liszt video is because it's a huge hole in the collection of composers he's covered. Liszt lived a long life full of adventure and is considered to be the first impressionist, the first touring virtuoso, pushed the limits of piano technique to the brink, and was one of the first people to experiment with Atonality. He is one of the fathers of modern music performance and study. His sonata alone is worthy of analysis, and it is by far one of the most important sonatas post-Beethoven. He deserves an 1hr+ long video on him more than anyone.

[@adigozelov-enjoyer]

Video on Vasif Adıgözəlov, please!

[@ClassicalNerd]

Duly noted: lentovivace.com/classicalnerd.html

[@teebeedahbow]

Boulez wasn't a 'sharer', ;-) And, lest we forget, he ended up releasing records of Handel's Water Music!

[@GoldenScarab45]

Is the “numerology” of Bach really all that different than the “architecture” of Babbitt? They had just came up with Calculus when Bach was alive!

[@ClassicalNerd]

Bach does his fair share of cycling through all possible permutations of things; Jonathan De Souza's book _Music at Hand_ had an example of Bach doing that exact thing in his D Major Sinfonia. But the sonic end result is way more chaotic-for lack of a better term-in Babbitt, because he does that on every level (not just the hand and registral layout of one segment of triple counterpoint).

[@GoldenScarab45]

@@ClassicalNerd that is an excellent thought. But, Babbitt also saw so very much in Bach and his proportions! Think of Sondheim’s study with him, focused almost entirely on Bach! It is exciting on my end to think of the similarities as well as the differences!

[@GoldenScarab45]

@@ClassicalNerd comparing as well the mathematical developments of each time also reveal a certain relativity of what exactly each composer accomplishes, wouldn’t you say?

[@emanuel_soundtrack]

it is. Bach was mystic in this, and had consideration to your ears.

[@GoldenScarab45]

@@emanuel_soundtrack each of them considered their own ears and listening all the time… this video makes clear the reasoning behind Babbitt’s layers of math- a justification of existence as an institutional organ.

[@mjl1958]

54'42" should be Denis Smalley, not David.

[@ClassicalNerd]

Duly noted!

[@johnpcomposer]

PS for all of that complex math when you listen to compositions for viola and piano or music for 4 instruments it doesn't seem you would have to go through all that systematic organizing and gridwork to come up with the same sound if you were applying a less rigorous method...the thing about the subconscious is that when freed in the dream of making music (or writing stories) it creates it own complex patterns out of instinct which then the process of revision can capitalize on and deepen. I'm not that much in favor of too tightly controlling the creative process in every detail...not accidentially Babbitt borrowed from literary theory which I have some knowledge of as a novelist, and I'm somewhat dubious about works of art when a form of hyper organizing by the conscious intellect takes over for important subconscious processes, including applying extra musical or political theories about what a work of art should or shouldn't do...Thus the academic novel is weighed down and is dating itself by aligning itself to closely with theories that will not age well.

[@emanuel_soundtrack]

i call this neurotic creation lol only someone very afraid can’t do a step without a rule

[@edwardgivenscomposer]

"a less rigorous method". exactly. as I said in another comment - if your aesthetic is to sound like you just sat on the piano keys - fine. sit on the piano. but to come up with an exhaustive set of rules only to arrive at the same result?

[@emanuel_soundtrack]

@@edwardgivenscomposer I agree on this. I am organizing techniques for a harmony book, included original techniques , and just consider new techniques that actually sound unique exactly because they are conceptually organized! This is the very idea of harmony , creation, and rationality. For a more chaotic but still organized sound i imagine the composer can do as he wants , because it help his musical form, but leave me alone selling rules or rulling with this in my university ;) I guess Wolfgang Rihm got this part very right: he truly fights any concept and compose from his raw flesh . Hear his Passion “Deus Passus”

[@solomonspeare1963]

in my opinion time point technique has little aural significance and counter-intuitive but i understand where it comes from

[@greshancigane8645]

Today is Babbit's birthday!!

[@ClassicalNerd]

the cake is all-combinatorial

[@greshancigane8645]

@@ClassicalNerd 😂

[@greshancigane8645]

@@ClassicalNerd Mark too helped making the cake

[@ericrakestraw664]

1:11:13 sounds like music only aliens could understand.👽

[@edwardgivenscomposer]

the musical equivalent of cooking without tasting

[@ClassicalNerd]

that's what I do when the recipe calls for cilantro

[@edwardgivenscomposer]

@@ClassicalNerd Chefs and composers alike got to be careful with those exotic spices. Next thing you know you'll have people smiling, dancing and being amorous. You know what they say - "music is the food of love". Well, not Milton's music obviously....

[@Mythologos]

The best thing to come out of Babbitt was Sondheim.

[@richardhines8622]

He took the position that lay people would grasp the substrates of a moment relative to the moments before, and the nihilism that approach implies. Unnecessary approach to complexity, exemplified by the lack of extended counterpoint across clusters.

[@routineparticular7104]

Sounds like more of a mathematician than an artist to me. Really blurs the line. Obviously a supergenius who made great progress in advanced music theory - but his pieces sound more like musical experiments than anything else.

[@cometcourse381]

What, music can’t sound like a musical experiment?

[@edplunk600]

Too bad most Americans never heard of him, because he was not a corporate musician.

[@MaximilianMKGill]

First comment.

[@psijicassassin7166]

The most sophisticated American musical mind ended up composing nothing less than sounds an AI can create. The pinnacle of American intellectualism that kill individual artistry and creativity.

[@shark_username]

Mil babb...

[@ClassicalNerd]

M-🅱️abb

[@edplunk600]

turning this off due to ad

[@robkeeleycomposer]

Terrific lecture. Congratulations! But could you elaborate/ justify your assertion that Babbitt was’far from being a conservative’? He later claimed to being ‘to the Right of Marie Antoinette’! We’re not all lefties on here, you know!

[@ClassicalNerd]

I think he got more conservative as he got older. My sources are all in the description, and despite my best efforts to split them into sections, information on Babbitt's politics is really all over the place-however, I recall that there's some info in that passage pulled from Martin Brody's article _"Music for the Masses": Milton Babbitt's Cold War Music Theory,_ pp. 169-171: "Babbitt affiliate[d] himself with the New York leftist intellectual scene of the 1930s and 1940s ... [he] was overtly hostile to what he called the "ultra-left wing" and to a kind of leftist different from [Sidney] Hook's or [James] Burnham's*-the kind who never or only belatedly "changed," remaining loyal to Stalin and the Soviet Union, even in the face of the infamous Moscow Trials, the Hitler-Stalin pact, and other contemporary events in the late 1930s that disillusioned many prominent intellectuals." It reads to me (although the article is not directly about Babbitt's place on the political compass) that Babbitt's anti-Stalinist position alienated himself from the hardcore left and pushed him further and further to the right as he aged. He was not a card-carrying Communist at any point, but those kinds of folks were part of his circle in the pre-War years-something that Brody's article implies he was "bemused" by years later. *It's interesting to note that Burnham, although a lefty in that era, went on to become a columnist for _National Review._

[@emanuel_soundtrack]

i call this neurotic creation lol only someone very afraid can’t do a step without a rule

[@teebeedahbow]

Babbitt seems like someone who is so smart he's stupid. Comparing musicians to books printers seems to me to be especially silly.

[@oblomurg]

This is a succulent & tasty morsel you have cooked for us CN. 😺