CHARM DEEP DIVE EP.38: Carefree Melody - [Hollow Knight]

[@Vegathron]

Thanks for watching folks! Working on this charm reminded me how bad I am at math. Thank god for the math subreddit existing and giving me a hand! 1 more ep out after this which will be the kingsoul/void heart one. then after that there will be a day or so until the final master video is out which has all eps in one, with added segments of charms where I missed a detail or two. it will also include an overcharming and notch location section at the end, so def worth a watch even if you've already seen them as singles :)

[@OmnipotentEntity]

Hey! You're welcome for the assist. Just glad I could help. I was wondering what the use case was, because it seemed so specific. I honestly thought you were designing your own game system rather than analyzing an existing one. It's cool that it was for one of my favorite games.

[@Vegathron]

@@OmnipotentEntity You're an absolute life saver! I see you are both good at math AND have good game taste! Thanks again! :)

[@branch13.]

i dont care how evil the grimmchild is THEY LOOK ADORABLE

[@MaskerHollowKnight]

this is the first video to come up when searching carfree melody on google, congrats!

[@Vegathron]

Thanks masker! Yeah it's nice when the algorithm smiles on something 😆

[@lisa4471]

You won’t realize, how helpful this charm is until you go through colloseum of fools and godhome.

[@ThatDerpJerk]

THATS ALL? I RATHER HAVE MY KID WITH ME, NAHHH, HE SAVED ME AT PANTHEON 3

[@Vegathron]

preach! how else am I going to cheese pale court bosses =P

[@danielking4505]

If you're good at not getting hit or you just have a full healing build then maybe Grimm child will be useful. I prefer carefree melody because it is good against The Radiance.

[@lancelee338]

I wanted to make carefree melody a homebrew artifact for my campaign. They get +1 AC whenever an attack roll against them hits, and they lose all of carefree melody’s bonus AC when an attack roll against them misses. I just wanted to double check

[@minebrothers4121]

I didn't even know the existance of this charm

[@Owen-ki3jk]

Good to know it won't be helping me get that goddam flower across the map, thanks!

[@AlexKnauth]

I have some disagreements with the table at (1:24). Masks per notch is not the most useful number here. When I'm looking at making a survivability build, the numbers I look at are: (a) Expected number of hits I can survive between healing opportunities (high is good). (b) Expected time between healing opportunities (low is good). (c) Expected additional hits I can survive per healing opportunity, averaged over multiple healing opportunities (high is good). These numbers don't mention masks, because against enemies that deal more than one mask of damage, (a) and (c) can be different from number of masks. Against 1 damage, (a) = masks - 1. Against 2 damage, (a) = ceiling(masks/2) - 1. Against 3 damage, (a) = ceiling(masks/3) - 1. Relevant for Hidden Dreams bosses. Against 4 damage, (a) = ceiling(masks/4) - 1. Note that here 11 masks and 9 masks have the same (a) = 2, so Heart doesn't make as much sense anymore. Against 5 damage, (a) = ceiling(masks/5) - 1. Here 11 masks (a) = 2 but at 9 masks (a) = 1, so here Heart gets back in the game! Against 6, 7, and 8 damage, (a) = 1 whether I have Heart equipped or not, so Heart goes back to not making much sense here. Carefree Melody kind of acts as a multiplier for both (a) and (c). The way I'd thought about it until now, I'd taken the average block chance of ~22.46%, assumed the expected number of hits half-inclusive-between blocks was (1/0.2246) = 4.452, and set the multiplier at 4.452 / (4.452 - 1) = 1.29. At 9 masks against 1 damage, (a) would go from 8 to 10.32 which is better than Heart. At 11 masks against 1 damage, (a) would go from 10 to 12.9. However, given what the table at (0:36) says, I might have been wrong about some of that. I haven't done the math on those new numbers yet, but I have a feeling Carefree Melody could end up even better than my previous numbers say?

[@Vegathron]

Hi Alex thanks for the comment! "Carefree Melody kind of acts as a multiplier for both (a) and (c)" - I agree, I do mention its multiplies your effective health which is essentially supporting (a) and also my comments at 1:53 supports (c) although worded slightly different. Funny enough the damage you take doesnt really mess with the math for carefree itself, so long as you can survive long enough for the odds to balance out. eg. taking 2 masks of health per hit means you can only get hit half as much before death, however it also causes carefree to block twice as many masks when it does trigger. obviously the higher the damage per hit the less likely you are going to live long enough for the odds to work out though, so def worth keeping in mind. This is definitely a charm where there are many ways to compare it. however the reason I went with effective health per notch as well as the explanation I did was more for consistency with the other durability charms and to keep it a bit easier to digest, as its already a very numbers heavy charm!

[@r4gn4r0k56]

What’ll u do when u finish the series? Maybe a tier list?

[@Vegathron]

That is definitely a possibility! a few other ideas I have along the lines of doing a godhome race with a few friends versus a speedrunner, but that could take a bit of organizing. Also I'll be swapping to a new editing software after the final compilation vid is out, so hopefully the learning curve isnt too bad on that one. any particular thing you would want to watch?

[@r4gn4r0k56]

@@Vegathron not really, just do what u want to do

[@Vegathron]

@@r4gn4r0k56 As long as I'm learning something new and having fun then I cant ask for much more!

[@scottydo5282]

Carefree Melody feels really overpowered on extra-damage bosses. I've been using it for Zote and it seems to trigger every other time I get hit.

[@Vegathron]

In 1 way yeah it blocks 2 instead of 1, but it sorta evens out because you only get half as many chances for it to trigger before you're out of masks!

[@nikiy0]

Hi there, great video! One question, though, what were the calculations for the cumulative chance? Because for 2 hits, i got the cumulative chance of 18.2%, rather than 18.6%, which was displayed in the chart in the video As i understand, the formula would be (probability of taking a 2nd hit) × (probability of dodging after taking the 2nd hit) = (89/99) × (20/99) ≈ 0.181614 ≈ 18.2% Every other cumulative chance i calculated matched the ones in the chart, so i was just wondering, maybe i went wrong somewhere :P Thanks in advance

[@Monst4R]

So i can’t get carefree melody🙏🙏😭😭

[@Sonic_eats_marbles]

Bro I low-key forgot this existed

[@Vegathron]

I'll be honest before I made this video I'd literally never used it lmao. It's very easy to forget!

[@GiantParadoxQ]

How do I get the Grim child charm back? Please tell me!😥 Please Please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please

[@osobatalentu6944]

You can't get grimmchild back, you will have to have Carefree Melody on that save file. It is a better charm, but it is not a minion

[@greatlake_editz]

You're stuck.

[@GiantParadoxQ]

​​@@greatlake_editzi know 💀☠️

[@Hugs_4_Bugs_]

RIP

[@IsaiBoizard]

Can I have it if I already took the 3 last flamme before nightmare Grimm

[@osobatalentu6944]

If you beat Nightmare King Grimm no, but if you just fought with him you can go to the deepnest with equiped grimmchild and talk to the brumm and then banish the troupe in howling cliffs

[@BobaEclipse]

WAIT HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO GET EVERY CHARM IF I GET RID OF ONE?

[@malaco__8951]

Wait if I beat Grimm but not NKG can't I just banish the Grimm Troupe and fight NKG in Godhome?

[@Vegathron]

I am not 100% sure but I think you need to fight NKG in the real world to have access to him in godhome. Don't quote me on that though!

[@cheesechess-tr7pd]

Sorry if im late banishing grimm count as percentage of defeating nkg meaning it instantly unlock nkg in godhome

[@giupepp0680]

only 2 to go,what are u going to do while silksong get published?

[@Vegathron]

Actually, only 1 to go! kingsoul and void heart will be a duo out later tonight :) after that the master version will be out with all eps in 1 vid, also with improvements and added facts, as well as charm notch and overcharm info. and then I'll be most likely making a videos on a mix of hollow knight and other indie games I also cover on this channel!

[@Roland_Volpahart]

Wait a moment ! Carefree melody does not give you additional masks . Right ?

[@Vegathron]

Nope, no extra masks just the chance to avoid damage.

[@kakapip1366]

Is this on radiant usefull?

[@Vegathron]

It can be if used the right way yes!

[@ScavangerARMOR]

what if i have already kill grimm ?

[@Vegathron]

Once you kill his final form you'll be locked into having the grimmchild charm instead.

[@Ge4Ald]

I sacrificed my child just to find out I need to get hit a lot for it to trigger now I have a useless charm and I can't finish flower quest

[@mathieubitar3298]

For finishing the flower quest i recommand you to do the quest without the flower(put ur teleporteir at the start of the quest) and kill every enemie and NOT SIT ON A BENCH or all the enemies will respawn and do the quest . Like it its so more easy

[@mathieubitar3298]

And sorry i dont speak english very well but i wish i will help you

[@bagwithmilk]

What if I already killed nightmare king grimm?

[@Vegathron]

Then I'm afraid you are stuck with grimmchild unless you use cheats or make a new file.

[@richardsebastian6444]

That's so messed up...I literally need 2 freakin charm, and I have to make a new file just because of that? ...huh. Anyways. I love the game, so I don't really mind, but i need the plat on ps really bad.. 😢

[@wilforddraper3570]

@@richardsebastian6444 what are you trying to do?

[@wilforddraper3570]

@@richardsebastian6444 112%?

[@richardsebastian6444]

@@wilforddraper3570 yes

[@onur1986]

people using carefree melody with qol mod to beat radiant bosses how boring 😒