Cheap & Easy drainage solution? Vertical French Drain

[@troylee3179]

You have to get below the clay layer for this to work. I did this and it worked transforming my yard. I personally had to dig down 3 feet. Areas that stayed wet for several days after a rain are now firm and able to be mowed in just a day if weather cooperates.

[@SamsLawn]

Hey mate, yeah, I think you are 100% correct, so I am not sure this will work since I did not get through the clay. But we´ll see, it was fun to try it out, maybe it makes some difference at least, who knows.

[@dougfinlay7531]

I work for a Geotechnical Engineering and Geology company here in New Zealand and I have a patch of garden next to my lawn that is very wet. My issue is that the water is not draining through a hard compacted layer of silt. We were discussing my predicament at work and the trick is to make an auger hole 100mm in diameter and penetrate this hard layer down to some sand or less compacted soil. Then like you to fill the holes with fine drainage aggregate. The water should then drain through the hard silt. You seem to already have lots of stones in the lawn so adding more won't help unless you penetrate that hard clay layer. You might even have to auger 1 to 2m down to pass it. An auger will also reveal the soil type as you dig down. I have a soil log of the area so I already know how far down I need to go. Good luck!

[@SamsLawn]

Hey Doug, I agree, I was trying to get through that thick clay layer, but the drill I had just wasn´t strong enough, I just assume that you really need to get through it for this to work properly, as you say. But at least I gave it a go, if I still have issues next year I might try to get hold of a more powerful drill to get through that layer next time. Thanks for the feedback mate, appreciate it!

[@LuminairPrime]

I think the vertical drain idea is great because you have so little water pooling! While the drainage area created by these holes is small compared to a french drain, you only need a small amount of drainage. Any small slope or tiny drain could help a lot! Yes the fabric is important for slowing how fast the gravel clogs. People sometimes get it wrong and think it's bad for the fabric to clog, but that's what it's there for. Water will find a way into the drain no matter what, as long as the drain is there and not a solid clay + rock blob, lol.

[@SamsLawn]

Hey mate, thanks for the feedback, great to hear someone else thinking that the fabric was a good idea, I had no clue at all, it just made sense to me, feel better hearing you say it too though :) As you say, since my drainage issues aren´t that severe, then this might just be enough to fix it, we´ll see, crossing my fingers. Thanks for dropping by and giving your feedback, appreciate it mate 🙏

[@LuminairPrime]

@@SamsLawn geotextiles are ubiquitous in high-end construction, most notably road construction. If you google "geotextiles in road construction" or something similar, you'll find decades of documents from governments all over the world. Geotextiles are critical for controlling soil migration while allowing drainage. There are many different types of geotextiles: the fuzzy "non-woven" ones allow good drainage but are weak if machines drive on them (good for our use); the smooth ones are strong but drain poorly; and the big grids are the strongest and drain well but don't prevent much soil migration (good in layers behind retaining walls, turning the soil there into a strong composite material that won't move). Thank you and keep up the good work!!

[@amandapetermendez1725]

Hi from England, UK Sam. Very very very simple solution for you Sam. 2 Choices, we did both. 1st solution: Till the whole area, then mix in powdered Horticultural Gypsum powder (Calcium Sulphate). Till again and level out. The soil over a few tills goes jet black. 2nd solution: Scalp whole area. Scarify whole are deeply. Spread (Elixir Gardens UK Gypsum | Calcium Sulphate Clay Breaker Agricultural Grade Natural Soil Improver | Homogenous Granule Wind Resistant | Various Sizes 250g-25kg | (25kg) | Treats 500sqm) thick layer. Water daily to allow it to dissolve and work it's way into the soil. The products both cause the clay to break down into smaller particles and join together, allowing gaps for water to go through. You have a head start as your ground is wet, which will cause the pellets in option 2 to dissolve. Stop drilling holes, it will cause puddled areas. It really works Sam. Do option 2 and smother the whole area, you won't regret it. We are the envy of our neighbours now. Farmers use it to help their soil grow products. We now do option 2 every 3 months.

[@randylawncare]

Gypsum is valuable only on Sodic soils(Na hazard),else wasted money!

[@amandapetermendez1725]

@randylawncare don't know what that sentence means but our front and rear gardens were mainly clay 2.5 years ago. The grass was lifeless, held water and more grey than green. Now we have beautiful black soil and the grass is deep green. So not sure what your sentence means.

[@SamsLawn]

Hi Amanda, thank you very much for the feedback. I actually looked into gypsum and it seems like many people use it just for this reason. I was thinking about doing this long term and just adding compost and changing the soil structure that way, in theory that would be the most viable way but it takes 2-3 years to do it. So gypsum might help speed that along. I might even do two areas or more with different solutions to see the difference. Thanks for the information, I always like to hear if solutions have worked in real life for others.

[@amandapetermendez1725]

@SamsLawn Hi Sam. We tried the compost method first. We used 24 x 40 litre bags on our 112m2 lawns. We tilled in the first 12 bags, then covered over the top with the other 12. Every day we damped it over as advised. 3 months later nothing had changed. It appears that nothing, neither compost or worms affect clay. If you read the part in brackets in solution 2, copy and paste it into Google search, it may be a different name or supplier in your country but it actually states 'Clay Breaker'. We tried many different things that were supposedly 'cures', like horse manure, cow manure, which are great for actual soil but we, as you, don't want to enhance soil, we need to break down the clay. If you do decide to do areas, then please mark the area I have suggested using Calcium Sulphate as 'Amanda's Area, lol. Amanda xxx

[@SamsLawn]

@@amandapetermendez1725 I think the compost works but the studies I´ve looked into were over 3 years, so if anyone goes that route then it´s a long game to amend the soil I think. I will definitely mark that area as Amandas Area, I need to know who to blame if it doesn't work! 😅🥳

[@stevenbelcher5658]

I did something like this. I have a sloped lawn and dug out rectangular trenches along the areas where the water would sit. I filled it with sandy rootzone to act like a sponge. I tried gravel but that did the opposite and caused the water to want to stay in the upper layer blike a sponge resting on gravel. It seems to have worked a there was a day of non stop heavy rain and no pooling at all. 2 hours after the rain stopped the surface was as if it never rained

[@SamsLawn]

Hey Steven, maybe sand would have been a better option, actually read that you could do this with both sand or gravel, I just didn't have any sand to use at the moment. So we´ll see how well this works, I am very skeptical though :)

[@TheLawnShark]

We have a ton of clay and it is much closer to the surface for us. I find that I need to make sure things slop quite a bit and as I add sand and compost it gets better each year.

[@SamsLawn]

Also tried to slope it more this time around and planning on adding sand and compost as much as I can, hopefully this will fix itself over the next few years. Good to hear that plan is working for you, then I don´t need to second guess myself on this one :) Thanks Dino!

[@Yazz2014]

I think if you have clay soil it will turn your fabric into a “clay pipe”, best to just put rocks. I also was wondering if in extreme cold climates the freeze/thaw effect might create land slide or divots in ground, and you seem to be next to a hill, I would be VERY leery about this. I would definitely check that out, it might be called soil creep. I think vertical drains might be best suited for warmer climates such as Australia or anywhere where there is no freezing. Read up on the freeze/thaw eroding grounds in Alaska.

[@SamsLawn]

That might very well be a possibility, was actually considering just putting rocks, but didn't really know what would work best, let's see. The slope is created for drainage purposes, we are not allowed to touch it. So I am not too worried about subsurface drainage issues to be honest it's just the surface drainage I want to fix. We'll see how it works out 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@SQLKC]

Thanks for trying. I hope it does get you some relief.

[@SamsLawn]

Thanks mate, appreciate it. Hope it works too, but if not then at least I tried something :)

[@lucymoazzo3097]

Hi Sam ! I don't have any suggestions for your drainage problem, but I wish you good luck with it. I'm really looking forward to your next video (:

[@SamsLawn]

Thank you Lucy! I think it will be fine anyways :) Next video will be up in a few days hopefully 😊

[@peterboden3859]

I hope your fabric works but my take is you need a Geotexile fabric which is designed to allow water to filter through. So be interested to read your follow up video. Raining here in England in July, just waiting for the Jet Stream to push northwards, maybe Sweden's way!

[@SamsLawn]

Hey Peter, I used geotextile fabric in the video, so it will let water through, otherwise as you say I don´t think it will work. Let´s see when we get heavy rainfall and how it works :) So far it´s been pretty ok weather.

[@doddyy]

Good luck clay sucks !

[@Leoplaplays]

Great video Sam. That seems tough.

[@SonnyHoood]

bit of Gypsum you need Sam, i find the liquid sprayer works good, but its a constant battle the clay subsoil

[@SamsLawn]

Hey mate, I have been reading a lot about different soil amendments, gypsum seem to pop up everywhere, would be interesting to try, but I don´t know. I always keep coming back to the long term compost solution to amend the soil, feels like it would be the better option for the long term. but we´ll see, maybe I´ll try gypsum on a smaller area to see how well it works :)

[@SonnyHoood]

@@SamsLawn if you have nice sandy soil on top, mixed with clay below it creates like a concrete. No where to drain, it's just water logged. Gypsum will just break up the clay in to smaller forms and push heavy metals like aluminium oxide? I think it is, much deeper. I tried the powder form, but the micronised liquid is much better. In winter I spray iron 5% to give the grass strength while dormant and keeps it green

[@user-iu7rf6yt3l]

Wait a mn Sam, a "french drain" is horizontal with holes in the pipe ... and it works (!) A vertical drain is not french so that in itself could explain why it does not (always) work ! (from France)

[@SamsLawn]

haha must be it dude! You found the issue!! 😂

[@andrewkennedy9704]

My soil is hard clay as well. I'm interested in how this goes for you. My lawn is currently flooded from a heavy storm this morning. Its deep enough to put fish in.😂

[@SamsLawn]

Hey Andrew, that sounds like a lot of water, would be fun to have some fish in the middle of the lawn though 😅 Not sure how well this is going to work considering the heavy clay underneath so I am a bit skeptical, but who knows, I will keep you updated mate!

[@lisadurant869]

What was the outcome of this?

[@SamsLawn]

Hi Lisa! So far we had some heavy rainfall and I haven´t seen any water pooling up anywhere. But the true test will be after winter when we have 2-3 meters of snow that needs to melt away, that´s when I know for sure if this worked or not. I am sceptical though, since I had a hard time getting past the clay layer, I think you need to get past that hard layer for this to me really effective. But we´ll see :)

[@Bethy4477]

Do you have any update on how this is looking? I am just about to attempt this on my own lawn

[@SamsLawn]

Hey Mate, so far we haven´t had any rainfall where this would actually come into play, I think unfortunately I need to wait until all the snow melts after winter to see if it makes a difference. However, it was so fast and easy to do and it didn´t cost much so I think it´s still worth to test it.

[@thesugarlipslove]

did you have a water issue before you put in the stone borders? if you dont want to do a proper french drain, maybe you could drill some holes in the concrete to let the water have a path out?

[@SamsLawn]

I still had issues but it seem to gotten worse with the borders. So I am assuming the clay plays a part in that. I thought about doing some holes closer to the border but if it´s all clay underneath then I am not sure that will help. I think I will just amend the soil over a few years instead. Thanks for the input, appreciate it mate 🙏

[@TheUnprevented]

I know the stone barriers look pretty cool, but if they gave so much trouble with the soil maybe it is time to get rid of them? :D

[@SamsLawn]

haha for sure that would be the easy answer, I´ll give it a few more years before I throw in the towel :D

[@wel5hy]

Did it work? How was it after heavy rain?

[@SamsLawn]

Hey mate, still haven´t had any heavy rain "unfortunately", but as soon as I do I will give an update. But I have tried watering the area with the hose as much as I could and water did not pool there anymore.

[@mervinprone]

I think that’s just called Spring. Nothing’s dry when it’s cool. Same thing happens in Canada in the spring and fall.

[@SamsLawn]

I thought that too first, but looking around the neighbourhood, my lawn was the only one this wet. Since it was such an easy thing to try out, why not. If it helps it helps, if not, then it didn´t cost me much time or energy to at least try it out :)

[@LeoGraca23]

Not worry about sink holes?

[@SamsLawn]

Not really, the holes are so small and it might need some leveling once it settles, but nothing major.

[@wayneessar7489]

Perhaps there is mapping done by your city or region that will let you know what is deep down?

[@SamsLawn]

Good input Wayne, I actually checked and it says it should be a sand and stone mixture. But it feels like they are talking about what is underneath this whole area. Since they do not mention clay at all.

[@StefanKolev-oh5hz]

You got too much clay for this to work, unless you do at least 150 holes. A few holes will only drain the water until they fill up, since the clay will stop water from going away. You really need 3 or 4 actual drains right at the edge by the stone border. They need to go to a drain pipe and take the water to somewhere else. You can connect the drain pipe to your gutter drains or you can use pop up drains at the end of the pipe and drain the water on the other side of the stone border or somewhere nearby. Look up pop up drain you will see how it works. If it was me I would do the actual drains, I would do the shallow but long ones and pop up drains, get the narrowest shovel you can find and dig 10 centimeters away from the stone border. You don't have to dig too far down a 6 cm pipe and 3 good sized drains will do it. I've dug sprinkler trenches through clay and its not too hard to do when its damp like yours, probably 2 hours of digging, about a day to dig, install and backfill. Anything else is a waste of time and money, unless you do the soil remedies from the first post.

[@randylawncare]

If the hard clay pan below his root-zone is everywhere ,he needs to make the whole backyard with drains to remove the excess gravitation water! Else , remove the topsoil,regrade with 5% slope to outside area and sandcap it! Ако имаш желание,може да се присъединиш към нашата хоби зона в дискрд! Мисля че има какво да ни споделиш !

[@SamsLawn]

Hey Stefan, For sure I am very skeptical if this will work. As you say, I think the clay is just too much, so I would definitely need to dig in some drainage pipes. But I think I will go for the long term solution and just amend the soil over several years with nice compost. I have read about research experiments and they managed to turn the clay structure to nice loam in about 3 years by using compost. I rather do that then digging up the entire yard and putting in drainage pipes, feels like that just fixes the symptoms and not the actual problem. But it was still fun to try this out, who knows, maybe it will help a bit :)

[@randylawncare]

@@SamsLawn Yes,you are right about the compost,but your top 10-20 cm are ok from infiltration point! When is saturated to field capacity,it not drains below by gravity and starts to accumulate above heavy clay layer,like in the pool! I hope you got my point! I like your content and your enthusiasm! Hope to figure this out!

[@StefanKolev-oh5hz]

@@SamsLawn you could do both, you get to make more videos :)

[@GOTHAM21]

Did it work?

[@SamsLawn]

Don´t know yet, haven´t had heavy rain so far. So I guess we´ll see. But I will for sure stand ready with the camera as soon as we have some heavy rain :)

[@troylee3179]

You could make a rustic vase out of my soil, but if you get below that layer of clay this works

[@SamsLawn]

Hey mate, that´s my concern actually, that I didn´t get below that layer. But we´ll see, hopefully it will make it a bit better at least.

[@thameralbayati]

Did it work :)?

[@SamsLawn]

Hey Mate, not had that many heavy rainfalls here so I´m not sure, So far I don´t see any excess water anywhere, but I think the true test will be after winter, see how fast it dries up.

[@synergy90t]

Did it work? :)

[@SamsLawn]

Not sure yet mate :) We haven´t really had that much rain this year, think I just have to wait until after spring to see if it did anything, I will follow it up though :)

[@jdwhitcraft1533]

A few years ago I had my whole backyard renovated. Before they finished grading it, they dug a large hole, about half way, front to back, about 3'x3' wide and a few feet deep. Lined it with landscaping fabric, filled it 3/4 of the way with 3/4" clean stone, covered it up with landscaping fabric, then back filled with the soil "clayish soil" and finished grading it. I used to have water draining from the back of the backyard to the front of the backyard, to the point it would run into my sliding glass door, in my daylight basement. Haven't had that problem since. It's called a "Dry Well" and they do work. Not sure how they'd work on such a small scale though. Maybe you should have gone with the bigger bit and a little deeper or dug those areas up and did it to just those areas??? And on a side note, My backyard was ALL clay. So those who say it won't or don't work on clay soil...They're completely incorrect. You just have to get below that. This is just what a "Dry Well" was designed for....poor drainage soil.

[@SamsLawn]

Hey mate, I actually read a lot about dry wells, but I have so much stone in my soil so digging is such a pain, even with a soil drill. Also I thought my issues aren´t that severe so maybe this would work. We´ll see. Otherwise I agree, a dry well sounds like a very good solution, I think most people would be fine with that rather than installing drainage pipes which becomes a much bigger operation in my opinion. Thanks for dropping by mate!

[@user-iu7rf6yt3l]

A vertical drain without digging through the Clay (!) ... That must be a swedish drain !! 😀

[@SamsLawn]

haha must be mate!! I tried getting through it but it was so compacted man, not even the power drill went through it 🤦‍♂️

[@fdm9282]

This was hilarious.

[@randylawncare]

IMHO this will not work ! You must drive the water away from your rootzone! Think it like you have a concrete base and soil above! Better option is to make sand slits with drain pipe! You must rent a trencher, dig into the clay layer put gravel, then drain pipe, don’t use fabric! Fill the the remaining trench with sand! I can give you some details if you are interested also I have some interesting solution about keeping the turf alive when kids are playing ;)

[@SamsLawn]

Hey mate, for sure I am very skeptical too if this will work and I actually read about sand slits, they use it a lot on golf courses, but it seems to much work :) I think the only long term viable solution for this is to add as much compost and good material to change the soil structure long term. So we´ll see how this works, at least it was a low effort and low cost experiment :)

[@ushomework3718]

You backed the the wrong horse

[@SamsLawn]

You mean the RPR? :)

[@ushomework3718]

@@SamsLawn you know the one

[@wiktorpoliszczuk1372]

😂😂😂😂