CHEAPEST 12v 100Ah Lithium LiFePO4 Battery - The TEARDOWN - What's inside is interesting!

[@vesautoelectrics]

In case you missed you can Watch Part 1 here👉kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKHLnqlsrLKEmM0 and Part 2 here👉kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpfJg2atep6KgsU

[@blake9358]

Some are partially filled with concrete I kid you not. If the are only ,56 Amp hours they should be referred to the ACC for fraudulent deception

[@oneeyedphotographer]

@@blake9358 If they were sourced from within Australia, I think you're right. If WES imported them, it's not so clear.

[@T4Abyss]

I bought 2x of these 2022 black friday for not very much at all. I also bought a battery discharge tester, the ones with fans on the top LCD etc. I charged them both with my victron smart charger and set up a load of 10a and let it do its thing. Did this twice to get fair results 105ah for one battery. 85ah for the second battery. Deffo used cells! I decided to buy a bigger JBD BMS and upgraded that to include Bluetooth and just dropped it in place of the other, and also so I could run both in series (which I never did in the end as my application was for a 24v trolling motor where I ended up buying 12v instead!). Personally, I think they are good enough for the $200 aud that I paid, over a year ago, and still working fine. I also tore the box down nicer, used a heat gun at the seams and the lid lifted off nicely so I could reglue without any issue (used some pop rivets to hold whilst it set) 👍🏻

[@vesautoelectrics]

A few people have contacted me saying they have these batteries and are getting mixed performance from them. But for a bargain $200 you wouldn’t mind it under performing. They are ideal for running low current applications. I will be upgrading the bms and plan to use the battery to run an electric gate. Be interesting to see how long it lasts. I didn’t think to use a heat gun!? But thanks for the tip, will use that method on the next teardown.

[@shanenorwell8580]

The cells would’ve been wired in series parallel so in theory would be a 120ah battery not a 60 but the way these companies make the batteries so cheap is they’re used cells so you have no idea how old they are or how many cycles they’ve done in there lives which is why you get so few ah out of them when testing.

[@vesautoelectrics]

Yeap your spot on, 2 groups of series in parallel. my mistake whilst filming, have since cut that bit. For the price i didn’t expect much but not this bad! I could’ve purchased a half decent 50ah lithium battery for the same price. Hopefully this video will help people decide before parting with their hard earned cash. Thanks for watching.

[@mikejosef2470]

@@vesautoelectrics Didn't you say you tested the cells at 56Ah? Like, 56Ah per cell? Or was that per parallel pair?

[@vesautoelectrics]

Made a mistake at the 6:25 mark. It should be 114 Ah not 57 Ah 🤦🏽‍♂

[@tomingram2175]

I purchased a couple of these. Charged up fine, my capacity test consisted of 2x series connected into an inverter driving a 500w halogen. This provided a fairly consistent load of ~21A for most of the discharge cycle, peaking at about 22.5A by the end. One BMS shutdown at just under 5h, the other battery wasn’t far behind at 11.8v. This would make the weaker of the pair ~103ah and the other just a bit better

[@vesautoelectrics]

You definitely have had better results than me! I reckon these are all used cells and it’s just luck if you get a battery with good ones in. Would be interesting to see how they perform after a number of cycles? Can you keep us posted?

[@whydontyouaskme]

You might be doing everyone a favor keeping used cells out of the landfill

[@AC2SURF]

Would like to point out there are 8 cells at 57ah ish you only need 4 cells to make 12v so because there is 8 you can double it to make 114ah I think you need to do a capacity test to get the real end figure great video to well done

[@vesautoelectrics]

Yeap that’s correct, but with the various tests carried out we could only get around 60ah from the battery before it was fully discharged. Possibly one bad cell causing the issue?

[@AC2SURF]

@@vesautoelectrics I have a few of these batteries and my capacity test was bang on had 8 batteries 4 in series 2 parallel got 9999 watts when it cut out under a 1500w load

[@SolargreenMowing]

I brought power bolt battery's over two year period and I've done a cycle test on all 6 battery I brought over that period and they all had more then 100 ah in them. On your tear down, I notice each pouch had 57 ah at 3.3 v and there is 8 pouches that adds up to more than 100 ah. I done a cycle after 2 year on two of the battery's that I've that long and the battery's are still holding 100 ah each. I found the chemistry for a 12 v 100 ah lithium iron battery should weigh around 12 to 13 kg. Thanks for doing tear down the video, now I know it has pouch cell not Prismatic cells.

[@vesautoelectrics]

Thanks for your feedback, glad they have performed well for you. Unfortunately the one I purchased was a dud from the start. But a few other people have said theirs have lasted well , think it’s just pot luck with these cheaper brands.

[@stephenwalczak3166]

Hi mate, thanks for the video. Do you happen to have the BMS part information handy? It could read it off the battery. Thanks

[@vesautoelectrics]

Hi mate, here’s the part no. JBD-HP04S024 Let me know if you need any more info.

[@Scotts-Pathfinder-Adventures]

For it to only be a 50ah and the price it cost it's not that cheap after all, this battery is getting removed from my ebay watchlist 😂

[@vesautoelectrics]

Haha, can’t blame you. And hopefully i saved you wasting money! Maybe check out my other video testing the Giant Power lithium battery. Results were surprisingly good.

[@mikejosef2470]

The specs for the battery are 4s2p, which is borne out by the presence of 8 cells. Each cell is 56Ah, tested by the guy, so 2 of those in parallel, with 4 pairs in series, makes it a 112Ah, 12v battery. Auto Electrics also seems to be unaware of that too. It's a freakin' bargain.

[@Clau69D]

So we have 2x57=114.....it is above 100a....at 12v.....you get more than you pay....be more onest

[@vesautoelectrics]

I have been completely honest, as shown in the video. The battery is being advertised and sold as 100ah. But with the cell set up it is actually 114ah ( if I wasn’t being honest you wouldn’t of known that) But when tested it achieves half of that. ( Me being honest)

[@spencerm106]

Very interesting video, well done. I've always wanted to see inside one of these. Nothing wrong with pouch cells, you have what we would call 4S2P, four series, two parallel. Looks like lower grade pouches that didn't meet stringent requirements. How long did you charge it for? I would imagine the cheap BMS either is not capable of cell balancing or very slow at it. I would have tried charging it for a few days. If still a problem, then you could have tried manually top balancing them. That might help.

[@vesautoelectrics]

Thank you for watching, appreciate the feedback. To be honest after doing various tests i only charged it for 24hrs before strip down. I would guess the cheap BMS doesn’t have the cell balancing function though. I will manually balnce them before i put it back together, then i will use the battery, possibly for an electric gate on my block and see how it goes? I don’t have high hopes though.

[@mattsonic9824]

Just make sure your charger is set for LiFeP04 and not lead acid batteries and charges each cell to 3.65V, therefore the finished charging voltage for this battery is 3.65v X 4 = 14.6V. 12V LiFePo4 batteries are only fully charged when both the voltage hits 14.6v and the current going in falls to less than 50mA. Those 8 pouch cells should have no problems delivering 100Ah.

[@vesautoelectrics]

Thanks for the info. Yeap the charger is set to LiFeP04, when it’s complete the battery is sitting at 14.5-6v. But after resting for 24hours it will drop. My next test is to fully charge the battery then measure the voltage of each pouch.

[@tucker2074]

Very interesting, I bought one exactly the same but I was sent a VoltX which was selling for around $500 Australian, getting a camping fridge/freezer in next couple of days so will test the VoltX

[@vesautoelectrics]

Thanks for watching. Let’s hope the VoltX performs better! Keep us posted on your results.

[@tucker2074]

@@vesautoelectrics no worries, still at 60ah it would be comparable to a 120ah AGM, because they can only be discharged to 50%

[@vesautoelectrics]

Yeap true, and lithium batteries charge faster than AGM. But i would guess an AGM would last longer than one of these powerbolt batteries. I think these cells have already been heavily cycled Considering the fact i can only get half the amp hours i should from it.

[@tucker2074]

@@vesautoelectrics Well I would have been very disappointed if I had paid $500 for the voltx, it run the fridge for just over 81 hrs for 61.53AH, the fridge did well though at 0.75 amps an hour temp set at 2c, its a Hcalory 40ltr bought off eBay for $260

[@oneeyedphotographer]

@@vesautoelectrics I have seen only bad reviews of my Mobi, only good ones on the VoltX (and VoltaX). There is an actual Australian company VoltX, it has quite a range of related products.

[@Jpgundarun]

I have just watched Parts 1, 2 and this strip down vid and I must say an excellent review. After watching this I won't be getting one of these batteries. Cheers.

[@vesautoelectrics]

Thank you for the feedback, I’m glad you liked the video’s. And hopefully have saved you money.

[@Jpgundarun]

@@vesautoelectrics Definitely looking at different brands now. Thanks.

[@craigtomkinson2837]

Lovely Vid Thanks for sharing.

[@vesautoelectrics]

Thanks for the feedback, really appreciate it.

[@jamiegarton8518]

I noticed in your part 1 video the battery only had 13.2V at the start of the test which is about 70%. it doesn't explain why you only got 55Ah in your part 2 test. Thanks for the videos I bought one of these batteries and have found that from fully charged it drops to 13.2V quickly but then stays at 13.2V for a long time. I haven't completely flattened it so see if mine is a true 100Ah.

[@vesautoelectrics]

Thank you for your feedback. I think only getting 55ah from the battery in each test is down to the poor quality of the cell’s and bms being used. Would be interesting to see how your battery performs and how many ah it has? What set up do you have?

[@Phelec59]

At 4:30 you say, what have we got here? I thought.............OMG .....,Narcotics!! 🤩

[@vesautoelectrics]

I wish! Would have got some of my money back i wasted! Haha. Thanks for watching, hope the video was useful.

[@bradleymetcalf]

Correct me if im wrong. 8( number of cells) * 57( ah each cell) * 3.3(volts) is the number of watt hours (approx 1505). A normal 12v 100ah battery is 1200 watt hour. ps I have one of these, its performs just like this one. Dont buy one if its for serious work.

[@vesautoelectrics]

Thanks for watching, appreciate your feedback. My mistake while filming, it’s 2 groups of series in parallel. Even on the casing it’s labelled as 1280wh. Are you getting the same, around 56ah use?

[@bradleymetcalf]

@@vesautoelectrics I havent got a shunt installed or anything. Im just working out based on a constant load from my starlink. Comparing it to an Itechworld 100ah. 6-7 hours vs 10+ from the itech. $315 I think I spent on the power bold $560 on sale from Itechworld. You get what you pay for from Itech.

[@vesautoelectrics]

Yeap in Theory you should get close to double the amount of hours with the itech 100ah battery. Another well priced lithium is the Giant power, have done a few tests and results were great.

[@oneeyedphotographer]

How much difference would a better BMS make?

[@vesautoelectrics]

A better quality BMS with cell balancing would improve it’s performance/efficiency, But poor quality cells would limit it.

[@mickwolf1077]

I wished I watched this before buying 2x200ah batteries 😔. For $100 extra I could have bought 2 voltx batteries. I took one apart and it's built well with prismatic cells. I was hoping to take them all apart and making them a 48v pack with one BMS.

[@vesautoelectrics]

Your not the first to say that. But other people have said their batteries are performing as rated? Maybe doing the 48v set up but purchasing a quality bms would help? What would you be powering?

[@mickwolf1077]

@@vesautoelectrics I'd like to run my house and ditch the grid, I don't use much juice. I had a 24v inverter but didn't realise 2 12v batteries with their own BMS wouldn't work in series long term. Then water killed the inverter. So I bought a 8s - 24s JK bms and 48v inverter to use with my cells but as they were all laser welded I didn't want to separate, I might still get identical ones to complete the setup and use the cheap ones for other stuff. I'm doing a charging capacity test on one at the moment.

[@vesautoelectrics]

Yeap a 48v setup would be ideal. How much solar you running? How did the charging capacity test go?

[@mickwolf1077]

@@vesautoelectrics I got 3.5kW worth of panels and space for 3 times that. I only use between 7-9kWh a day but usually about 4 with basic needs. I got 208Ah out of the battery which is alrite so I'm using that for lights. I decided to build a pack with new cells from china and just waiting now. I don't mind running a genset if need be and would be cheaper than daily supply charge.

[@stevenbliss989]

There are 8 pouches, how is that 12V, I am confused????

[@stevenbliss989]

are they only pulling 25Ah and doubled up?????

[@vesautoelectrics]

It can be confusing. it’s set up as 2 sets, with four pouches wired in series in each set to increase the voltage. Then the two sets are connected in parallel to keep the voltage the same but increase the amp hours. Hope that makes sense?

[@vesautoelectrics]

Each pouch is meant to be 50ah, 3.3volts So they connected 4 of them in series so that the ah stays the same but the voltage increases to 13.2volts. Then two of these sets connected in parallel keeps the voltage at 13.2volts but increases the ah to 100ah.

[@jec_ecart]

I'll never buy anything with ouch (pouch) cells.

[@vesautoelectrics]

I agree

[@panospapadimitriou3498]

i wouldnt get mad with a 48v 50 amp pack but this you got needs 2 balancers for 8 cells . and those get paraleled to work on management ...!!!! i hate it when paralel packs have it that way .. i dont even trust more expensive bmses that have small time of balancing .. most daly start at 3.55 v which in small packs get passed fast and let em messy !!!!! btw buy a stand for the camera and you re gonna have better test videos...!! its dangerous to play with cam and try tear downs on packs!!!!!

[@vesautoelectrics]

Thanks for your feedback. I have just invested in a stand, hopefully makes it easier for me and also better watching for viewers.

[@rgormley1968]

was my comment just removed?

[@vesautoelectrics]

Hi, no comment was removed? I have had a look through and can’t see any other comments. Could you re post it as a reply?

[@jec_ecart]

That's why I Don't buy ready batteries. Always assemble them using best prismatic cells. These are useless pouch cells.

[@vesautoelectrics]

Yeap I agree! Where do you buy the cells from?

[@tea_bags341]

Check the weigh usually you get 160ah/kg

[@vesautoelectrics]

Sorry how do you mean?

[@oneeyedphotographer]

@@vesautoelectrics The 3.2V cells should have a particular weight, it depends of the number and size of cylindrical cells inside. Too light and something is amiss. If you have four 3.2V 100Ah cells inside, then add the case and BMS and padding and that's your expected weight. The arithmetic might be different for those pouch cells. I have seen it mentioned in passing in other videos and their comments.

[@herbertvonsauerkrautunterh2513]

Just not worth buying. Even if you are a super cheap charlie. Steer clear of pouch cells.

[@vesautoelectrics]

I was surprised to find pouch cells when I opened it up!

[@mikejosef2470]

Why? I have a 36v, 20Ah bike battery that is made of 12 sets of 4x5Ah pouch cells, that I never even bothered to put into a sturdy container, and 8 years and 38000km later, it still has between 16 and 17Ah capacity, not that I ever flatten it, but I do a capacity test every so often. The cells in the battery that was torn down in the video are well packed into a sturdy case. What difference does it make if they're packed into individual cases, or just one big one, apart from a slight weight saving? Every phone in the world has a pouch cell inside it.

[@chrisduckworth2022]

Ewwwww pouch cells !!! And they are in parallel series. 57 Ahx2 gives 114Ah @3.2V X 4bin series for 12.8 V nominal.

[@vesautoelectrics]

My thoughts exactly. And yes my mistake when filming, it’s wired 2 groups of series in parallel.

[@akira5982]

Think the eco worthy 100ah uses the same shitty jbd basic bms, thanks mate save me wasting my coin 😅 save for something decent

[@vesautoelectrics]

Glad you found the video informative, yeap i would avoid these! Maybe check out the Giant Power Lithium Batteries. I’ve done a couple videos on these if you want to check them out. They perform well. What you planning on using the battery for?

[@akira5982]

@@vesautoelectrics not a damn thing lol nah just an Engel fridge in my 4x4 maybe some low powered accessories, just want a decent quality battery with a decent safe bms thats not gonna break the bank which is hard because theres so much junk on the market, i'll check out the Giant bluetooth 100ah, thanks again for ur sacraficed $$$

[@vesautoelectrics]

Haha, glad i could help. Yeah check out Giant, think they have a sale on at the moment. I am in the process of buying good quality cells and bms to build a decent 100ah battery for hopefully the same price as a budget brand! Stay tuned👍