Cheat owner about profits, CS2 and VACNET. An honest interview.

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CYBERSHOKE owner Erik Shokov talked with developers of one of the biggest CS2 cheats in an open interview about this industry.
Timings:
00:00 - Introduction
00:57 - Anonymity
02:36 - How closed is the cheating sphere
03:45 - How you started developing cheats
04:50 - How many bans did you get while testing cheats?
05:09 - Feel any guilt?
05:39 - Cheats on FACEIT
7:54 - Would you work on VAC
9:03 - Dedicated league for cheaters
12:38 - About staff and salaries
13:26 - How do you find employees?
14:20 - Staff in other projects. Is it possible to develop a cheat solo?
16:23 - Which region has the most cheaters?
17:24 - Cheaters in esports
21:58 - Radarhack problems
24:49 - Anti cheat in VALORANT
25:53 - What will happen in the future
29:25 - Is there an ultimate cure against cheating?
32:33 - How many people use cheats?
34:28 - About competition
35:17 - Profits
37:27 - What should happen for you to quit?

[@TheAstroG]

People are critisizing these guys that is understandable. But as a billion dollar company, wtf is valve doing?..

[@pegropanchero4800]

True, these guys are just taking advantage of something that like they say it's totally legal, people crucify cheat developers like they wouldn't do the same if they could make tons of money, plus it can be really interesting if you're into the game. People forget who's responsible for this to exist in first place.

[@itp1134]

@@pegropanchero4800 Well obviously cheaters and cheat creators are responsible for all the problems CS2 has rn.

[@fugelkusch3722]

There's nothing they can do. Look into how computers work.

[@Lucky_7kBeats]

@@itp1134 no not all the problems

[@itp1134]

@@Lucky_7kBeats wdym?

[@TabzWare]

Neverlose Devs single handedly carrying every cheater on Premiere

[@Anon0x00]

They are the one behind neverlose?

[@Jawn1337]

@@Anon0x00 yep this is nl staff

[@AikasAcc]

damn

[@OniiHvH]

They said their subscription was 19 Euros. NL's CS2 cheat has always been 29 Euros. This is not NL.

[@Jawn1337]

@@OniiHvH its nl staff

[@narigoncs]

Can't imagine how bad must it smell in a competitive HvH player's basement...

[@TecuGo]

Pretty sure as bad as any other competitive cs player

[@ProfessorEskimoTV]

id argue the more normal cs players i’ve met have been HvHers

[@ida1799]

actually quite nice, the hvh community has a lot of nice ppl

[@comezo1]

@@ida1799😂

[@PlaaasmaMC]

@@comezo1 They're not wrong it's just the toxic ones are the big names so you don't see the nice people too often

[@DasGpunkt]

The sort of mental gymnastics they perform in order to justify what they are doing: "you can only use on official matchmaking and thats HvH anyway."

[@bigmike4923]

Its like the drug dealers that say "if I didn't do it someone else will"😂

[@foxize6913]

do you think it is their fault that Valve won't detect such obvious cheats? they never intended to make a cheat that is intended to hide, their cheat is the top rage cheat, it's only for hvh. There are cheats that are for hiding purposes, but this is not one of them..

[@rtkpX]

The cheat is meant and made for HvH, but does not place any restrictions on where you can play, as long as it's not through some third party loader. Now, as it's said on the video, the legit capabilities of the cheat are basically none, so all you can do is rage cheat, which is really easy to notice, if there was any kind of anti cheat, the cheat would be detected in the first 1-2 rounds.

[@XxInfinityxXTimer]

I don't blame the cheat dev for exposing valve horrible anti cheat. Is like having bad security for a national final exam where anyone can sneak in anything to cheat their way to victory while being as blatant as possible

[@seohyunism1]

there used to be HvH servers in CS:GO they're working on infrastructure for HvH leagues, so they are trying to shift out of matchmaking to these guys, CS2 is just viewed as a development platform for programmers like them, not as a "gaming community" that they serve to protect

[@AtomiX_CS]

Bro said "The HVH community is young and toxic" Who would have to that people using cheats in games are fundamentally bad people 😱

[@sn0wfal676]

The entire game is toxic...

[@kamay7021]

What about being young makes someone a bad person lol

[@Peter_Parkour18]

Wtf being a cheater makes you toxic, cause you Ruin the game for All other Players just for your own good.

[@s3ns1]

"but they say that they have fun" 😂

[@Cainny]

@@sn0wfal676 Facts lmao. Cheater or not.

[@aranyak1881]

looks exactly how you'd expect them to look rofl

[@ntrtnr_]

Skrillex is smarter than i thought

[@omgwat]

I think they make a very valid point about HvH. In some ways, cheat making is an art form. It's almost like modding in that it requires a community to do it. The reason why hacking is so derided is because a lot of people will abuse cheats to go into ranked lobbies and ruin the experience for others. But if there were official servers where this kind of thing was legal then it would change the nature of the situation considerably. Sometimes you have to embrace human nature and AI is not going to solve all of the cheating problems (in fact, it may actually compound them). Of course, this still requires some kind of community method to ban cheaters who engage in public, official non-hacking lobbies. I think that Valve should be open to this kind of idea. It will get a lot of ridicule and negative PR at first, but it's definitely something worth considering. At the very least they can modify their infrastructure so that the cheaters get paired with the cheaters. And in fact I think that's what we're seeing when you see 4 or 5 ppl cheating per lobby.

[@Razexyy]

Pretty interesting to hear from Hack devs POV, I hope Valve is cooking something.

[@pixelcatcher123]

Smart guys, appreciate this conversation

[@CBEnoddyy]

All I can now think about is all the young kids been initiated into a toxic environment of there peers and learning how behave and to be toxic together. Explains a lot about the young of today. These are some valuable life skills our kids are learning.

[@heavensadistancenotaplace]

hvh lan would actually be sick, i never cheated in an fps ever (its noob to me) but that would be really interesting to see how people have to play etc

[@0xszander0]

Hilarious to hear them struggle to make the point that HvH has any skill going on.

[@EliteKaninen]

Yeah it definitely doesn't require any skill, whoever has the best cheat wins. But I always thought that the purpose of HvH was for people to develop their own cheats and try to win by showing who's the best at creating skills. Wheres the fun in playing HvH where the person who pays the most for hacks wins?

[@reunionisland7940]

@@EliteKaninen spoken like someone that's never used a good cheat lol. "good" cheats on csgo almost always relied on lua engines to work, if you don't know what good lua is a "good cheat" is basically just shit software you can't use right. skill issue, seethe, L, europoor

[@AtomiX_CS]

The skill issue is having to use a software in order to be able to beat your opponent. Cheating vs legit players is only for the mentally weak people or the sociopaths who get off on other people suffering.

[@foxize6913]

@@EliteKaninen I don't do HvH, but HvH requires knowledge of the map and a specific playstyle, do I think it's as skilled as legit play? No, but a HvH match between good players needs tactics within teams, if you have one guy with the best cheat but he doesn't know how to use it well, you are screwed. You can see in the cheat's videos (Neverlose Channel) on youtube, this is the cheat they own, and you see how they play and what features are necessary.

[@iHCSx]

There is alot of skill involved. If you dont understand the map, movement, wallbangs, lag comp and have the ability to configure a cheat properly u wont do any good. Wallbangs are very important.

[@Sophon1]

that profit is actually insane

[@ByeBaybe]

these dudes were nervous when talking about the money xDDD

[@yeko4991]

the left guy was really nervous when the other guy talked about it lmao

[@osmancey8974]

@@yeko4991 because they make a lot of money . I think far more then 1 Million Dollar what he took for his example with 50K * 19$

[@dollaratte]

they're making more bank in a year you'll make in 10. Don't talk XD

[@ByeBaybe]

@@dollaratte that's the point

[@lialkalo4093]

Thank you for this very interesting interview. Even though I know from first hand experience how frustrating it is to play against cheaters, I do not blame these guys. They just do what is legal, possible, and what people spend money on. If it wouldn't be so easy to buy new steam accounts, the VAC bans would probably have a real effect. In the current state, however, getting banned has no effect whatsoever. You just buy a new steam account and keep on cheating. Sad!

[@fntr]

nl on top as always

[@realbangbang]

I mean at this point they might as well make cheats that plays the game all on its own and the cheat user just sits and watches the game. What a nice use of one's time.

[@PropaneWP]

"We're about hack vs. hack" lmao. These people are running the competitive gaming community into the ground and they don't have the balls to admit it. If you're already showing up to an interview, why not go all the way.

[@autokrft]

It's so interesting how nonchalant everyone in the cheating community is about their cheats. For the longest time I didn't think many people cheated but I slowly realized over time that it's way more common than I thought. Kind of made me lose faith in valve and I don't play CS much these days anymore. How can you release a new version of counter strike but not change the anti cheat? So backwards to me.

[@diplomchiller9432]

the bigger buy looks like he is a bit related with flusha xD

[@Puxi]

*guy

[@TukeShark]

@@Puxigay*

[@altinberisha7046]

All in all, the video is interesting and I think that guy on the right is on to something with Valve, they are letting cheaters run rampant, but I think on the backend they have immense amounts of data collected, and when they launch this anticheat, its gonna be server sided so almost impossible to reverse engineer. They might be on the right track!

[@ZativaCS]

valve could have done so much in the last years so why do you think they will care about cs out of nowhere

[@purplegenome]

Valve devs are not good enough. They need to hire more intelligent people.

[@hilexprmntl3929]

Theres been a few people talking about how they had to completely start fresh with collecting data as a lot of their data was corrupted after they switched from source engine to source 2 - csgo to cs2. But this could be a coin toss with heavy inference of hope. One side they just need to collect enough data before they let it go live, and the other side they never release it and keep hope baiting by banning some here and there just to seem like it will go live. My gamble is in 5 years youll see a heavy turning point for ai anti cheat and the game scene rejuvenated in dealing with cheaters.

[@Toyotamangupi]

How can i conctact cheat devs? I need one for specific game

[@dac9695]

XDD

[@pegropanchero4800]

I think people don't understand that they probably don't care at all if it ruins legit people experience, it's a lucrative business, they offer a product, people like the product hence they buy it, if you're angry and sentimental about it you should blame valve directly just look at any competitive game anticheat and how they actually work.

[@robertassadygovas5196]

Nacis

[@anhletung7283]

"If we dont do this, someone else will do", because the profit is enormous. Valve dont care AC anymore, they're interested in selling skins more

[@arc-sd8sk]

"how are your two dads doing?" lmfao really cool to hear from them tho, I think it's interesting

[@roqueeeeeeeee]

missing the important question: how is donk cheating?

[@nils4677]

"We OnLy WaNt To dO HvH". Holy shit

[@wedontdial911z]

meh... neverlose is down so im looking at this...

[@cr0mble]

I was with the first group that first ever started making DMA cheats. (at least to my knowledge.)

[@TukeShark]

Sounds like fun tbh

[@Jetstreamsammy]

since these are the 'biggest' cheat developers, are they staff from nl or gs??

[@azile8716]

nl

[@youtubehodol3989]

nl us way bigger than gs rn

[@Jetstreamsammy]

@@youtubehodol3989 sadly

[@comezo1]

they are russian it’s obv nl and they are talking about their marketplace

[@PlaaasmaMC]

14:50 "One person can't handle all of this" unless they swallow their pride and make an open source cheat for all

[@ThrowingINC]

These guys look like they sell cheats lmaooooo

[@RaphaelCosteau]

cool interview but these guys have got to be trolling with the HvH stuff

[@kamyarmonfared6506]

Can you post their social medias? They said they would have no problem with it right?

[@luckycatzinho]

thats soufiw and skrillex ?

[@shadow_hvh]

aVitomin on the left. idk about the other guy

[@ikuya.3970]

@@shadow_hvh soufiw on the left*

[@felipesozza]

Honestly, Idc about their product at all, it's Valves fault that the game is in the current state, and if wasn't these guys, there would be another, there's always someone trying to cheat, the point is, what is the company doing to prevent? Nonetheless, the interview was quite good, cause at least it gives us some perspective about what Valve could be doing with AI, and gave use some info about faceit, where I'm currently playing, it means that it could have cheaters there, but not like premier, not even close to that, also, faceit cheats might be cheap for people in Europe or USA, but here in SA, converting the values, even cheap ones like neverlose, it's quite expensive, and neverlose doesn't even work on faceit, so who knows how much a faceit cheat would cost around here...

[@neuxell]

i found my calling

[@iHCSx]

14:45 thats literally what neverlose does. They crack all kinds of cheats and copy the code they like. They are shit.

[@T4B_M3RC]

Good marketing team... Practically everyone that's selling is pasted.

[@youtubehodol3989]

Yeah thats why there is no alternative of nl rn.

[@ethanloona8593]

"They are shit" they funny thing is that nl is the best current rage team, so i doubt that its a paste, lmao

[@leg4cy2]

yep they love dumping cheats and reversing them then pasting it

[@Topke94]

Solve what before anti 40%of people left with cs2

[@hoffid0t4rkas53]

Whats the name of the cheaters cheat?

[@TukeShark]

Neverlose, hvh used to be a thing but now it feels like people are doing hacker vs legit.

[@erlakafu]

​@@TukeShark every gamemode became hvh even at green trust factors...

[@youtubehodol3989]

Neverlose, the strongest and most expensive cheat on CS2 rn.

[@blokmotion]

Saying that 25k+ is hack vs hack is some crazy mental gymnastics

[@kuzyera]

its true tho

[@kodakenta]

even 20k+ is hvh

[@blokmotion]

I mean, he was talking about HvH as if it existed separately from honest players. It obviously isn't

[@ZativaCS]

everyone should be thankful of these guys for creating mods to make counter strike fun again

[@NormalMon]

what a pathetic statement

[@user-jx2kz3ot1u]

Are they Neverlose?

[@youtubehodol3989]

Yes

[@St0RM33]

yes they just got banned, valve is handing them out in-game 🤣🤣 Convicted it says

[@interventional]

NL ?

[@user-pe7vl5hl3y]

yeah

[@bongivesi]

probably ev0lve devs. panzerfaust and some1 else

[@Puxi]

Georgia. Not the state, the country!

[@grigorecosmin]

@@Puxi He's referring to NL which is the cheat these guys make. The cheat literally shows who in your match is also using it. That's why every game becomes HvH, because the cheaters know there are other cheaters in the enemy team.

[@Gadottinho]

@@grigorecosmin well, if someone is using NL they wont be playing legit cheat, so it's pretty obvious to know who's cheating anyways.

[@CharIie83]

hvh is interesting, like TAS gaming

[@Zav690]

These two aren't real men for ruining such a nostalgic game.

[@firefreak911]

If you make money by hurting others, you are a terrible person. I also think that such people shouldn't be given a platform

[@Julianio]

im no cheater, but they just sell a product and people abuse it

[@firefreak911]

@@Julianio wdym by abused? it is used exactly as intended

[@hjallewrango1528]

I dont agree, its valves fault and the people that use the cheats, the software will always be made and actually if they provide a safe way to download it viruses wont be a problem, also you have to let other people with different opinions than you speak, and since they aren't breaking any laws they have free speech

[@iArrivall]

Taking away platforms from people you don't agree with does nothing to actually solve the problem, learn what the saying "sweeping it under the rug" means and understand deeply why it's the wrong way to handle differing opinions and ideals.

[@foxize6913]

@@firefreak911 you can see they make their cheat exclusively for HvH and not for hiding purposes, and it's Valve's choice to not detect it anyway. That's not their fault.. they said they won't make any faceit cheat because their cheat is not intended for that.

[@letsflippingooo95]

justifying cheating lets GOOOOO

[@ClassicalKev]

Those guys are legit and i do hope the most success in their lives. Im not too happy about raging cheaters, but you got to respect the hustle and grind. The art and the passion to make a living from such circumstances especially in russia!

[@ma-tn7lz]

Time to stop playing online multiplayer games unless you just dont care or plan to spend any time. I dont see the point

[@rexxretired]

nl ontop

[@808Mint]

what cheat they own?

[@rodrblx]

Neverlose

[@MaxiMuM1441]

Redder still going strong lol

[@DavidLiljeblad-vt6ky]

Feel like these guys have a goal in mind their own league. But cmon cheaters are in the game to get an advantage over legit players. They are not interested in som hvh bullshit. Hope some sort of new ac puts these lowlifes out of commision.

[@Anon0x00]

Feeling bad to like them more than actual cs2 devs… At least they want helping the game be better

[@Anon0x00]

Also the fact that they are doing it for living is just also a big problem these dude are now here and they won’t stop that 😂 they need to eat too and seeing that this was working they ain’t gonna stop that

[@geheimagent88]

Tell them to update their csgo version

[@user-mq1jc4se7y]

Guys who ruined it, you deserved jail

[@unexcited]

this level of mad and tard can explains a lot, why you writing anonym, over a videogame.

[@BlancoMD]

If you get caught for doping, who is going to jail? You, the doctor or the medicine company?

[@user-mq1jc4se7y]

@@BlancoMD I don't know it's legal.

[@EXswing]

​@@user-mq1jc4se7y Developing cheats for games is also legal, so you look silly now

[@kuzyera]

@@user-mq1jc4se7y if you watched the video, you would know that this is legal too

[@hoffid0t4rkas53]

Neverlose owners by the way

[@herecomesthepain4229]

As a programmer, i mainly have respect for what these two guys do. The people buying the cheats to cheat in normal MM are far worse IMO

[@joaobrinca1552]

So drug addict's are the one's to blame, instead of the dealers and producers? makes sense! Lol

[@herecomesthepain4229]

Lol

[@joaobrinca1552]

@@herecomesthepain4229 you lost bruh ...

[@manosbourekas4180]

​@@joaobrinca1552 1. Comparing drug addicts to cheaters on cs2 is crazy and a bit inappropriate in this case. 2. If there is no demand, there will be no supply, however if there is no supply, there will still be a demand for cheating. 3. you lose :)

[@ethanloona8593]

@@manosbourekas4180 totally agree, you really can't compare cheaters to drug addicts, lmao.

[@manuelbolanos1531]

lol literal virgins

[@pegropanchero4800]

Millionaire virgins

[@shakhzodyunusov3922]

wtf these guys live in my country. both water brands in the floor are only available in my country. plus studio is really familiar. I have to meet with them so bad

[@ralf87100]

why do they look exactly how you think cheaters look like? i hope someday all of them get banned permanently from the internet and go to prison...

[@trixencio666]

i hope your wishes get fulfilled if your stress and anger will be relieved from your body afterwards

[@ralf87100]

@@trixencio666 :D well it just sucks man... I just want to play and i am a decent gamer i guess, but there are too many unfair players out there... maybe this game needs to invent a monthly payment...

[@trixencio666]

@@ralf87100 or maybe valve work on their game

[@EXswing]

So many butthurts in comments 😂😂

[@zeato6320]

25:56 fucking hell. "if you're not cheating, you're not trying"

[@ZardaaHD]

They dont even say that there?

[@zeato6320]

@@ZardaaHD ya, they don't. I was just trying to make a connection between tier 2/3 online play and cheating

[@javitorres1717]

How is this a legal job? Put them in jail

[@trixencio666]

its not like you are a murderer, because u coded something that gives u advantage over others

[@0o29k2]

wait till you find out abt drug dealers

[@St0RM33]

Neverlose, more like Loser4life 😂😂😂

[@MiracleBro605]

they should be put in prison. they are deliberately ruining the experience millions of people paid for. its pathetic in so many ways.

[@ZativaCS]

so send valve to prison first

[@autokrft]

It's pretty pathetic but it's a business for them I guess. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that valve isn't doing much to combat the issue.

[@trixencio666]

@@autokrft they made enough money obviously

[@ethanloona8593]

so they should be put in prison, for ruining some nerds experience in a video game? 😆

[@trixencio666]

@@ethanloona8593 these people will never know how nerdy it is to be so butthurt over someone paying to ruin others experience, ooor using it for hvh, which is pretty nerdy too, even tho im apart

[@dubya2621]

losers

[@Gadottinho]

u

[@azile8716]

millionaire losers while ur still shoveling shit for 2$/mo

[@manosbourekas4180]

1. supplying a demand that a significant amount of players are after. 2. making a shit ton of money. 3. able to bypass security systems of a billion dollar corporation like valve. How are they losers again?

[@sharky0w056]

with millions on their bank account, keep hating lil bro

[@dubya2621]

More pathetic losers in the comments defending these pathetic losers. "They made a million dollars you know". So I guess doing things that are immoral or unethical are fine as long as you make enough money, lmao, this planet is doomed