China Pen Outlook 2025 and onwards (2/2)

[@LChaderton]

I did not expect to find Baudrillard referenced in a video about fountain pens. This video is superb and I enjoyed your Why Keep Buying? blogpost as well. Here and on FPN and Reddit you give us the deepest insights into the Chinese fountain pen milieu; very informative and individual opinions, thank you.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@LChaderton my pleasure comrade

[@JohnTravena]

I’ve used fountain pens all my adult life but have bought cheaper ones - under $30. I’m not a collector but use them for writing and drawing. For the past ten years I’ve been using Jinhaos and I often wonder how they make a profit. The 9016 is so comfortable and has the big converter, the best value for me. Your video helps me understand why. Thanks!

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@JohnTravena my pleasure. Jinhao is at $10 grade. Try more premium Chinese models next time and happy hunting. Chinese is the only driving force in pen sector now. The Japanese and European pens are finding difficulties to justify their price tags. I was talking about basically job loss. Urushi is literally an out dated print. Even a #9 gold nib cost less that $60. Chinese pen just revealed how much scam this industry is. Enjoy ur Jinhao.

[@JohnTravena]

@ Thanks - I’ll try some of the others. I recently bought an Asvine V126 which is very nice.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@JohnTravena check my article: on China pen makers. So you will have more knowings of makers background. I own no asvine, at least for now.

[@JohnTravena]

@ Thanks, will check it out! : )

[@ernievid]

Great video. I believe the closest you will find to an English speaking Japanese channel is the Tokyo Inklings podcast, which is not usually on KZbin and has to be listened to with an audio player. I don’t believe any of the hosts are Japanese natives, but they know a lot about the Japanese pen industry and events. The part about Jean Baudrillard is very interesting. The Wikipedia page for him even uses pens as examples of objects that have sign value because they signify prestige relative to another good. A related concept is Veblen goods, named after Thomas Veblen who talked about conspicuous consumption as a way of seeking social status. Personally I think some people like to buy pens and other seemingly overpriced items for personal pleasure even without trying to impress other people.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@ernievid agree. Please, but not impress. But when it comes to Exahnge Value, it has go through Symbol Value. Your Sign Value becomes less or none valuable to your potential buyers. Great input. Thanks.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@ernievid also, Baudrillard thinks: Personal Pleasure is actually "educated by society", not naturally developed. You believe you got FREEDOM OF CHOICE, but no, all providings are all set. 😎 Once you in the game, you are no longer free.

[@AndrewWertheimer]

@@Shanghai_Knife_Dudewonderful sophisticated discussion involving freedom and theorists.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@AndrewWertheimer only money talks.

[@AndrewWertheimer]

@ I understand your cynicism but hope we can go higher than only considering money. Even FP makers need to understand their audience if they expect them to buy luxury image. My incoming President was able to sell a fake image, once again, but almost 1/2 of us know the promises are a pyramid scheme that will only help him and the rich. I think the party on your end is creating a world of haves and have-nots. I wonder how long the world Econ will last ever challenges like Evergreen. Take care.

[@omeryehezkely3096]

Actually, in the fountain pen industry quality control is a real issue even outside of China. For example, I got a new $1000+ Monttegrappa pen with a crap nib which I can do nothing about unless I spend more money...

[@ashzhu3085]

Yeah that’s the nature of fountain pens. Many things can go wrong. I’m happy to see that Chinese manufacturers start to test their nibs before shipping out pens - assuming that the nib testers know about fountain pens 😂

[@jeffreyclayman6922]

@@ashzhu3085 I’m confident that they are very competent with nibs. The Chinese culture utilizes fountain pens nationwide starting at a very young age to learn the art of calligraphy with the ancient Chinese characters.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

​@@jeffreyclayman6922 the ultimate issue is: QC brings cost. If Junlai premium able to be sold at same $900 as the Japanese KOP (all in US price system). I guarantee that Junlai will be perfect. But a $900 Junlai is suicidal. Chinese pen mid low range of $10-$500. The charm of current Chinese pen is: a $10 Jinhao 9016 writes as good as a $20 Pilot Metropolitan and Chinese gives you more aesthetic and ink capacity.

[@jeffreyclayman6922]

@@Shanghai_Knife_Dude Agree! That FANTA and all those gorgeous ebonite models are so cool looking! Wish the process to get repaired was easier for us in the States as I’d take a chance! Not for $900 but for $450 definitely! Oh well!

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@jeffreyclayman6922 Ebonite #9 18k nib is coming. Junlai 900 Ebonite.

[@jeffreyclayman6922]

What a great insightful review. Thanks for taking the time to do this SKD!

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

My pleasure!

[@CarlosBarros-e1x]

YOU ARE VERY SMART !!!😊

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@CarlosBarros-e1x you are smart too to telling that.

[@jeffreyclayman6922]

I agree about the Junlai high end ebonite models. I really would like to purchase these but the price hike and even more importantly the warranty issues have scared me away!

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

True. Just like in my JL 632 video, I did warn people about the warranty risk if buying JL high end. I required multiple times for After Service with JL. It was smooth in China though. But the nib quality is really an issue for JL High End at the moment. Maybe I will do a Part 3 to dig more on this. Gold Nib quality is a global issue really (along with Italy/Germany). High end Sailor and Pilot is with the highest quality consistency at the moment (nib only). There are multiple reports of the High end Sailor Cylint ($600) the coating just peels off, even worse than Jinhao really.

[@jeffreyclayman6922]

@ SKD- That would be great if you get a chance to dive into nibs. You are absolutely correct, nib quality is an issue with all high end pens….I’ve heard so many problems with Visconti it has turned me off even though the lava resins are stunning and unique. I want a Fanta ebonite (or one of the other swirly patterns) of the 900 but just can’t take the chance living in the USA given the challenge of getting it fixed.

[@EnCwoisant]

Junlai quality is better than lots of Italian brands that are at least triple the price

[@EnCwoisant]

You seem to dislike the aliexpress resellers but at least some of them have some CS in case of quality issues. That and the convenience is worth it to me

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

Thanks for comment. I believe I need to develop more on the Quality Issue in Part 3. It meant to be only a one episode show, now a series show. Italian pens, luxury products along with MB and stuff. Basically most of the Western pens are in the category of LUXURY now. The budget school Lamy just turned Japanese in 2024.

[@jeffreyclayman6922]

@@Shanghai_Knife_Dude We would appreciate a part 3!

[@anitahelton4698]

I really like the C5 video . Enjoyed this one a lot of info here in the states don't see alot of info on higher end pens

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

American pen consumer behaviour is weird to me. So many scams going on, but people let it happen.

[@anitahelton4698]

@Shanghai_Knife_Dude I'm not one to buy a expensive pen $50 is normal for my budget there just pens I buy China and India life is more important

[@Lenny2Lux]

I buy cheaper pens from places like Ali Express and Etsy, when it's expensive I take the hit an go for a reliable retailer based in my own country. Your bit on consumerism was great and answered a question I had wondered about whether some of the Chinese brands had reached that Iconic (Symbol) status in China yet. Putting the snow cap and the top of the pen an naming it Mont Blanc was marketing genius, given free to the company founder by a friend (so the rumor/story I've head goes).

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

For symbolism, elder generations of Chinese: Hero 100 and Park gold. My generation: Montblanc undoubtedly. Japan is seldom known for any luxury brands, therefore Chinese don't that care about expensive pens from Japan, no symbol value.

[@faniro4792]

Great! Is Jean Baudrillard translated in Chinese? (I like his analyses). Thanks for the great video.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@faniro4792 not all his work available in Chinese. Consumer Society is in Chinese.

[@amelorate]

Inky Rocks used to live in Japan, but she recently moved back to the US.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@amelorate i mean real Japanese . Not foreigners.

[@santauxia]

Great video. Looking forward to the review of the new Majohn C5.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

It's there. 🎉

[@santauxia]

@@Shanghai_Knife_Dude Saw it, Thank You Komrade LOL

[@AndrewWertheimer]

Interesting comments except that you seem rather biased about Japanese and Japan. I understand there is a long and complex history, but 1) please don’t use offensive name for Japanese as we wouldn’t tolerate that for Chinese people or others. 2) Japanese don’t need KZbin videos explaining their market as they established overseas distributors and vendors who deal with distribution, marketing, sales to stores, repairs and customer service , marketing and attending pen shows. They’ve done that for decades, although that raises prices, 3) I think Japanese pens are more worthwhile because of the TQM even on most cheap pens. That builds image, brand loyalty, market reach. On the other hand I think you are right that many people follow trends blindly such as chasing snowflakes and maki-e. I think tamenuri is beautiful craftsmanship but don’t get busy maki-e on pens. It is a fun hobby and offers a good chance to explore cultures and political theory in tense and complex days. PS I also recommend the podcast Tokyo Inklings for insight into Japanese FP culture and economics. PSS I remember your interesting blog now and am happy to see your posts. PSSS I sometimes prefer converter pens as it is easy to replace one-unlike a piston.