China Pen Outlook 2025 and onwards (1/2)

[@user-xt4jy6qq6e]

Thank you, really interesting, looking forward to part 2...

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

Part 2 will be conclusion and answers to comments. I am gathering comments.

[@jameswilliams7183]

Interesting vid, thanks

[@faniro4792]

Very interesting development! By the way, the Hero 545 you show is one of my favorite but with the converter (not with the "perfume" pump!)😀😂

[@ScottJonesNY]

What is the name of the demonstrator pen that you are showing in this video?

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@ScottJonesNY check my other video

[@payambagheri6370]

I have been using hero pens since 1997 for Persian calligraphy. They are pretty good value for money. I feel quality of the ink has been improving dramatically. Thanks for sharing .

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@payambagheri6370 yes Comrade, pen ought to be equally available to all people. That's the value behind Hero.

[@payambagheri6370]

@@Shanghai_Knife_Dude Fully agree comrade .

[@prateekbhardwaj9943]

Chinese pens r great and value for money.i had a bad image of it, but after using recent pens I am amazed. Will order more.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

is your wallet ready? Looking forward of your view of Junlai 900. Ding me when you done.

[@prateekbhardwaj9943]

@Shanghai_Knife_Dude thanks for replying brother, let me check this pen.. ,,❤️

[@MicheleDileoGoogle]

Thanks for your considerations on the Chinese market, for me they were very interesting. What is surprising, from the point of view of a European consumer, is that Chinese companies are still "factory-centered" and do not develop appropriate marketing and communication strategies to increase the value of their brand. For example, Asvine pens have an excellent quality-price ratio, they could be sold in Europe and America at a higher price if only Asvine built precise brand values. To make a parallel, Asvine could become the Xiaomi of fountain pens, defining in the next 3 to 5 years a clear positioning that would allow them to compete in the low and medium end of the market with higher margins and volumes. Thus, I would like to ask you, why does this not happen? Why, there is not even an official Asvine or Hongdian website in English language to present the products to the market? Can't Chinese pen manufacturing companies repeat what TWISBI did in the past years for example?

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@MicheleDileoGoogle conclusion 1: Chinese pen companies don't give a damn to overseas. Unlike the Japs, 40%-60% export rate forces Japs to bend over and setup overseas sales channels.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@MicheleDileoGoogle Reason 2: China pen makers are not yet ready for direct contact with overseas. Asvine was set up in Nov, 2022, major in exporting business. Asvine was made in China, but the price tag ain't fit Chinese buying power. My article in video description: on China Pen Makers.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@MicheleDileoGoogle in my Chinese eyes: Asvine is boring.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@MicheleDileoGoogle you probably could answer this: why stationary price so much high? A made in Germany Montblanc is cheaper in China or Japan than in Germany its motherland. A Sailor KOP Ebonite is 300% higher in EU than its Japan motherland. All pens just went rocketing in EU.

[@MicheleDileoGoogle]

@@Shanghai_Knife_Dude Answering this question can be complex, but I'll write down here what I personally think: 1. The fountain pen market is not a single one, but double: low-end products (let's say 0-99USD), play in the stationery market. On the contrary, pens with a higher price, outline a market shared with luxury items. This one imply a different supply and distribution chain, and different purchasing criteria (similar to those for perfumes, jewellery, etc.). The luxury market does not establish the price in terms of product characteristics, but mainly in terms of brand positioning and consumer behaviour. In the stationery market the price difference between the various markets in the world is minimal and is linked to the following point 2) 2. On average, production and distribution costs in Europe, America and Japan are higher than in China. The incidence of taxes and duties is also higher (for example in Italy the VAT is 22%, in the Scandinavian countries it is 25%, in the UK it is 20% - a pen purchased in Sweden for 100 euros has a real price of 80 euros ). I guess in China is less than 14%. 3. The margins of luxury goods are high and therefore it is possible for distributors to raise or lower this value to adapt to individual markets. A luxory brand perception can be substantially different, which is why a Montblanc pen can cost less in China than in Germany, while maintaining a consistent margin. I searched online for market analisys, and what I found refers precisely to the growth trends of fountain pens in the luxury accessories market and not the more common stationery market. In the world there are more and more rich people, so the demand for luxury goods (and Fountain pens) is increasing, causing the average price inflation. PS. I never thought I'd write a comment like this on YT :-)

[@siyuanxu3537]

Sailor KoP Ebonite in EU: €1373; 1911 21k: €404, Montblanc 146 in Germany: €655-755; 149: €900-1000 (Sources from renowned retailers in EU) just for reference. MB in Germany are not better.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

I knew. EU is a disarray for stationary lovers. MB in China online or Japan online is more attractive than its motherland.

[@siyuanxu3537]

@Shanghai_Knife_Dude yes in deed, I thought before: buy a pen where it is produced, that should be cheap. But the EU market shows me the different reality (I don't mean the online ebay buy, that is another story). So buy a German pen 8000 km away in China is way better.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

​@@siyuanxu3537 the "buy local policy" only applies to agricultural products, german sausages, pickles etc.

[@dancrews7832]

Great video! Thanks. Do you know if there is a Chinese safety pen? I'm looking for something that can use permanent inks.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@dancrews7832 majohn c4, eyedropper with a seal rod.

[@dancrews7832]

@Shanghai_Knife_Dude oh yeah that's a nice pen. However the ink will dry on the nib. A safety has a nib that submerges into the ink reservoir.

[@dancrews7832]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3ysqGiYhLypicUfeature=shared

[@user-xt4jy6qq6e]

Love Chinese pens but Noodler's do have a safety pen....

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@dancrews7832 majonn x1

[@FountainPenWorld-z4i]

Thanks a lot for this video and the figures you put together, the insights and explanations. My guess is that the chin. government put a lid on imported and local product-prices, reflecting the purchasing power of normal workers. Though A/l/i is a Chinese online platform, but selling primarily if not entirely abroad, doing clearly export business and the governmental price lid doesn't count, so the sellers are free to go for higher profits and they do, checking western retail prices and making a lot of more profit. Why prices in the western markets are that high and rising furthermore? It's called Neo liberalism, means governments do not control the economy and their players any longer, Before the 80's (before Reagan and Thatcher) there was some contro lexisting, trying to establish a balance between rich and poor. Neoliberalism has completely eliminated this and it quickly became the sole benefit of billionaires, banks (Goldman Sachs, etc.), large corporations and asset management companies (Blackrock, Vanguard, etc.). The 86K USD/year and person is a nice average figure and as long one stays in that range it's ok for him/her. San Francisco stated a few years ago that one with a yearly income of USD 120K lives in SF close on the line to poverty! 50% of all Americans are living clearly below this amount and that holds true for the entire western (Neo liberal) world. And, the amount of poor people, a result of the "free markets"-policy is climbing with every year. Regarding the prices of some retailers on A/L/I, it always amazes me that so many western customers simply do not understand how to estimate the price and value of a product, as if they have never learned it or simply want to ignore it....

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

what a lengthy reply! 1. Given in my video, the pen industry is of low tech and without any property of commodity. That is why there is no price control of pens or stationary, even in socialist chin/. I believe the best answer to explain the "low price of all pens in Chin/" is the "buying power (low PPP, 77th of the world)". 2. Neo Liberalism brings up enlarging poverty gap. But in country like Japan, major foreign pens like Mont Blanc are sold at same price in Chin/. While Japan got 3X PPP over Chin/. Japan, as a member of G7, commits to Free Market as well. So, Neo Liberalism does not fully justify the insane stationary price in other G7 countries. (Pity that, currently there is no an English speaking Japanese KZbinr out there helping us understand this stationary empire). 3. To bring up the transparency of pens from Chin/, is one of my primary purposes to go in front of social media. I was so shocked to see the price of Majohn on A/l/i. Like you said, those traffickers are matching the Chinese pens with Western Perception for 200%-300% overcharge. Some even hides its Chinese identity (Nahvalur). Those Chinese traffickers hate me. Pen retails in first world hate me even more. LOL. 4. Wish you a prosperous & fruitful pen hunting in 2025.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

this may interest you: shanghaiknifedude.blogspot.com/2024/12/on-pen-makers-from-china.html

[@FountainPenWorld-z4i]

@@Shanghai_Knife_Dude Great input and good to know that there is no retail price control on stationery products in China. That was my assumption, but I was obviously wrong. Let them hate you, there must be somebody like you and me who are trying to explain that high prices doesn't come necessarily with an outstanding quality. And many thanks for the link. I'll have a look at it sure, right now I'm a bit engaged in a new video review of an Indian FP from Vazir, I have to say a lot and think about how to structure it best.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@FountainPenWorld-z4i are you on Reddit /fountainpens? Comprehensive community there.

[@FountainPenWorld-z4i]

@@Shanghai_Knife_Dude Not yet, I'm very reluctant with (a)social media, such as FB, X, IG and the likes. But what I just saw on Reddit looks very promising. An open discussion is always fruitful and even if I can't agree to each and everything said, I learn a bit more and have something to think about. FPN I know, but they didn't accept my anonymous Yandex email address, so I didn't register but from time to time I'm reading there as well

[@teresaharris-travelbybooks5564]

Most of us; in the U.S. have incomes far, far less than the $86,000 figure you're using.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

Given in the video, the $86K (GDP per capita) is only used to "talk about" buying power between nations, which is a concept too complex to be displayed in my channel with my one-man-show-non-video-editing competence. "Nation as a whole" is the scope of the discussion. "American as a whole" is way richer than "Chinese as a whole". During economic discussions, a mass average is used to eliminate extreme exceptions, e.g. some true American sleeps in streets, some Chinese flock to Palm Beach for property like shopping in Costco. My data source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

[@AndrewWertheimer]

You are the same person who makes Bobby grinds? I quite like those and your WS 601 kit. Interesting video even if it was a bit hard to follow. I would love to see a general overview and history of pen makers in the PRC. It is confusing for us, especially since there seem to be several companies as Wing Sun, for example. Overseas pricing is complex as many companies have overseas distribution companies which usually raise prices and offer fewer selections. One can buy from the original country but then we can’t get repairs as it would be treated as a grey market purchase. To be honest I often buy used or vintage in any case as I like older pens and keep the hobby on a budget. I would not compare Montblanc prices as they sell based on marketing and prestige more than other brands. I’m happy that PRC makers have affordable versions of classics like the Parker / Wing Sun 601 well made EDC pens at reasonable prices. I’m also interested in creative PenBBS efforts. I agree that it will be good if PRC pen makers will keep working on more nib grind varieties while keeping affordable prices. I think many of us will be wary of more expensive pens from PRC given problems like poor customer service for false advertising of things like gold nibs from sellers and Online sites. Intellectual property theft also makes foreign customers wary like the fakes of Montblanc or Lamy or companies that hide where they are from. Someday I would love to gather some early Chinese pens to better imagine the changes that have taken place in the past few decades there. Sadly I’ve only been to Nanjing and Shanghai briefly and didn’t have time to pen shop.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@@AndrewWertheimer 1. I am not boddy. 2. An article in my blogspot, link in bio, : on China Pen Makers. 3. Higher price, false advert, poor after service, are the result of Online Pen Traffickers. Boddy is one of those Traffickers too.

[@AndrewWertheimer]

@ I see. His prices and work have been pleasing. What are alternatives to ‘traffickers’. Most of us can’t use Alibaba. Even Aliexpress is challenging in terms of safeguarding rights and ease of international order.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@AndrewWertheimer traffickers buy from Chinese Ali or Taobao, add enough premium to meet "western perception of pens", 200% at least, then ship to US. As China is still under category of "developing country", US Postal (us tax payers) subsidies small single shipment from China. Honeymoon of US buyer is ending.

[@AndrewWertheimer]

@ yes. Trump’s tariffs will take a bite. I think PRC domestic makers are aiming at export market after seeing the money exporters made and with the financial problems of domestic economy. I don’t think foreign market will be so hungry for expensive Chinese pens. We agree that the Luxury market is overinflated and people are willing to spend more for quality-build (which has been improving), sophisticated unique designs (very different), reliable guarantees and domestic service options, and some perceived added value of luxury. I thought PenBBS might be able to do that because they have a history of passionate exploring and experimenting with FP users in mind as the audience. It will be interesting to see if I’m wrong. I think the great internet wall blocks PRC makers from hearing audience reaction and seeing foreign trends. It also blocks foreign possible consumers from feeling each Chinese company as a real entity with a brand, design team, and social Justice / human rights / environmental responsibility vision. Global politics make this even harder. It has been interesting to observe changing attitudes on Chinese pens in India given the hot war on the border in more recent years. Cheers.

[@Shanghai_Knife_Dude]

@AndrewWertheimer politics or history is never an issue in fp business. After all the murdering and pearl harbour, south east asian/Chinese and American still buys japs pens. Isn't that weird?