China vs Usa controversy machine vise

[@joew.harris7018]

I have 20 years in the machine shop as a Journeyman Machinist and Class A Tool & Die Maker. I have spent many hours on a surface grinder, grinding things parallel and flat. I found that if you have two surfaces that are warped, I have gotten Plaster of Paris and mixed it pretty thin and poured it on the bed of the surface grinder, then put the part on top of the P of P and worked it in until the high places touched the bed then set back and let the P of P dry completely, then turn on the magnet and surface grind the top of the part flat. The P of P would fill in the high spots from the bottom and when it dried and I turned on the magnet, it didn't move. Then release the magnate, remove the part and clean off all the P of P and lay the ground surface on the bed and grind the other surface parallel. I have found that 99 times out of a 100, this worked to perfection.

[@TROdesigns]

Great method!

[@robot_spider]

As a home shop DIYer who never does anything commercial and doesn't sell anything to anyone, it's the difference between having a tool and not having a tool. I would LOVE to have a KURT vise. But since my tools don't pay for themselves, I can't justify it.

[@Hoodamax]

I actually worked at the KURT vise plant in the 90's, making D60 vises. The level of quality control was ridiculous. We were actually sent home for days because the castings wouldn't pass the test you showed (under MUCH higher torque) until the foundry figured it out. Even though it was a tough job, it's still the only vise I'll ever use. Money well spent.

[@CameronMcCreary]

Cheap Chinese Junk. I bought a small 3" Chinese Kurt and had to totally rebuild it. It is now one of my most precise vibes but, I had to put the work into it. I also had to send it out to have it put in an oven for curing. It was hours in the oven

[@c5h5nino24]

Grinding the vise will not reduce the amount the part rises during clamping, but adjusting the angle lock feature will...

[@axa.axa.]

I'm surprised a guy this well equipped didn't realize that. He didn't even mention the lift mechanism

[@BuickDoc]

American Man: "Damn, those Chinese make crappy stuff." Chinese Man: "Damn, those Americans will buy any kind of crap."

[@llewellynwilliams1956]

true that "cheap an cheerful"

[@johanneslaxell6641]

This stupid Finn: "Why cast iron when you can buy modular wise made of steel?" No, it ain't cheap. But it's good 👍🏼💪🏼!

[@ericjensen4497]

3:23: "I am not like other people out there that want to buy things, tear ‘em apart, put ‘em back together again and say ‘hey, they don’t work.’” That's fine. However, if someone with a KZbin channel accepts an item without paying for it (or at least paying money for it), then reviews that item in a video, you do understand why a viewer would question the honesty of such a review, don't you?

[@sblack48]

Eric Jensen The thing I like about Ave, other than the humour, is that he exposes the marketing wank for what it is. He hooks up instrumentation and shows you the true specs and how they differ from what's on the box. That is useful information for a consumer. And sometimes he finds out that stuff really is good, like the fluke multimeter made for the chinese market at 1/4 the price of the ones for sale in north america. I have no issue with being negative in a review if it is honest. When you start accepting freebees, which he doesn't do, it really muddies the water. It is a slippery slope. Eventually you will find yourself in a position where you have to put a positive spin on something questionable. You don't need freebees. Don't do it.

[@whitehoose]

That's the dilemma. Some of the other respected channels have been approached by a particular supplier - and offered a choice of goodies. The difference is they have all gone to some effort to make it very clear when they're being themselves and when they are reviewing sponsored kit. It's presented as xxxx gave me this to review and this is what I think. No ridiculous claims or clickbait headlines. The Wrangler who thinks he's a star ... and now this guy have both for some reason chosen to present their sponsored reviews as comparisons called "America vs whoever" or (currently) "Things you should fear the most". Neither discusses or declares "special arrangements" until this sort of shitstorm blows up I don't have a problem with anyone making an honest buck - I don't want the channels I do enjoy becoming part of the shopping channel and spouting sensationalised crap I can't trust.

[@whitehoose]

#Donner panty supplies. It's not the financial aspect - I don't see anyone saying it's wrong to take goods or money when it's made plain that that's what's happening. Whats riling people is the distorted "review", lets take a $660 vice, compare it to a $200 vice - which coincidentally happens to look like a vice therefore must be a counterfeit Kurt cunningly designed by china to bring US manufacturing to it's knees. Then, rather than producing a Kurt to compare the similarities - or indeed compare the winn with the kurt (because he wouldn't dare unfairly distort THAT comparison) ... he sticks with the winn (because it's them that are paying for this farce - either in money or goods). and keeps banging home that the cheaper vice isn't made to the same standards (shock horror!!!) Anyone taking this pantomime as an unbiased genuine review are also gullible enough to think "poor dale" is getting a rough deal. He's getting the clicks and the money rolls in whatever - hence his smug leer.

[@chrishill6276]

Eric Jensen most reveiws are bull shit

[@billwessels207]

I admire your tenacity. I used to have a Brown and Sharpe #2 6x18 surface grinder which was automatic grinding except for down feed. I thought I was bored running it for hours on end. Here you are doing it with a manual machine. What a man.

[@Orbitter1]

On another point, just wanted to point out that I find your videos VERY WELL MADE! Many videos are what I would refer to as "Chinese Quality Videos" while your videos are always very well done, concise & informative and what I'd call "American Made Videos"! :) Anyhow, really appreciate what your doing! Keep up the excellent work!

[@BuildSomthingCool]

+Orbitter1 LOL! Thank you so much. This might be one of my favorite compliments I’ve ever gotten on my channel. :). Thanks for watching!

[@CameronMcCreary]

The Chinese vises also have voids in them and he should have his vise reheated in an oven. My main milling machine vise is a Kurt. My 3" Chinese copy is just used on occasion.

[@RaysGarage]

Great video Dale, You just proved once again that you get what you pay for! Thanks for taking the time and effort!

[@BuildSomthingCool]

Thanks for your comment my friend

[@DrLumpyDMus]

You needed proof? Did the shot at AvE help you with hat realization? Thanks - Lumpy

[@TheJoyofPrecision]

I understand what you were trying to achieve with both videos, and enjoyed them both. That was a really unfair shot at AvE though. I haven't seen every video he's made but I've seen plenty, and never known him to knock a product unfairly. He pretty much calls it like it is.

[@asherdie]

Barry Manilowa so what if he is?

[@TheJoyofPrecision]

Barry Manilowa lol no, but he IS one of my favorite KZbinrs! :-)

[@Volte6]

I like AvE, but ho-ly shite his entire schtick has become twisting metal until it breaks. I'm hoping he gets back to more interesting stuff.

[@Volte6]

haha no doubt. Hmm another thing that occured to me. He talked shit about the "over engineered" juice squeeze thing which was built like a tank, and said compromise was the name of the game (via engineering choices), but then trashes engineering compromises when he comes across them. Just funny observations, i guess. He did sure love that glue gun though!

[@PeregrineBF]

He called the juice squeezer under-engineered. It was a case of "throw more material at the problem" and not "solve the actual problem in an elegant manner". It didn't have any compromises, which is why it cost so much!

[@Doan84]

To be fair, China builds what you pay them for. You can get reliable, high quality items from china. If you want, that is. But most people prefer the cheap stuff.

[@BillyTpower]

YES, well said. Some people can't understand that. Its a crappy vice, but that's what YOU ORDERED from them. You ask Grizzly or Busybee to only stock $700 vices and then see the vice quality goes up from China mass export.

[@sp1nrx]

This is so true. While I'm not a fan of Chinese products I have seen and used some very, very fine Chinese products. The American mindset has changed dramatically in the last 30 years to a throw-away economy. Paying for long-lived anything is passe and consuming more and more has become the new status symbol. The people who get boners manipulating spreadsheets and powerpoint presentations are the decision-makers now. It's all about numbers and nothing else. China has the numbers. They will crush us with those numbers until we get back to basics.

[@chillybilly1452]

@@sp1nrx I repair home appliances. I have seen the quality of the appliances go way down over the last two decades. Parts that went into appliances were made here in the U.S. 20 years ago. Now almost all of parts are made in china. Hell, whole appliances are bei g made there and exported to here. The stuff is absolute trash. No matter which manufacturer or how much you payed for it. The junk isnt going to last more than 5 years. China, to me, means cheap quality for shit products.

[@the4thj]

I have seen this, but you have to be there and point your finger.

[@yereverluvinuncleber]

paid

[@jameshisself9324]

I agree with your point that the comparison is fair and your reasons behind that. My extremely low budget shop stretched just buying the cheap Chinese vise, and even though my measurements pretty much agreed with yours it was a serious upgrade in my work holding. For me the cheap stuff makes sense. For any serious or professional machine shop it would be a hard no.

[@Dochirin]

Great video, Dale. I love this kind of videos where people buy cheap tools and improve them far beyond their original state.

[@daveticehurst4191]

Dale. Another thing with castings is ageing. They really need throwing out in the yard to rust and get hot and cold for about a Year before final machining. That is why if you can get hold of old machine tools, they are great not only because of the original ageing before being machined, but also the further ageing over the Years. A bit like Scotch Whisky, the older the better it gets.

[@jonnoMoto]

Dave Ticehurst BMW used old engine blocks for their turbo F1 engines back in the 80s because of that reason

[@nangidkram8652]

+jonnoMoto was thinking the exact same thing!

[@JaakkoF]

That ageing in weather is partly a myth and partly true. Sure, the casting stabilizes once it has been sitting for "ages", but you get better and faster results with proper heat treatment, like aging and stress-free casting.

[@gangleweed]

@@JaakkoF Finally someone telling the real story on the aging myth.

[@franksalterego]

Question #2: Shouldn't your final test be done with the vices bolted down?... The way they'd actually be used. What you're actually measuring is the amount of bow in each vice when they're tightened.

[@serdaraytemiz9978]

Well Dale since you are 1400 USD in to the wise can you do the same test when both are bolted down if it will not be so much of a trouble.

[@SmallShopConcepts]

Out of curiousity, was anything inspected or corrected with the underside of the screw contact? I know that I own a couple of chinese vises and some were very low quality and others were astonishingly great. most of the bad ones were difficult to get fixed up and within usable spec for anything requiring tight tolerances, but big improvements were possible. the lifting issue was one i corrected by cleaning up the underside of the saddle where the bottom plate rides and cleaning up the pull down mechanism when clamping force is applied. i did not use anything scientific except a dial indicator in the spindle for before and after clamping rise results, but i was able to reduce it to about .0015" under my regular clamping force where initially is was .005-.006". wasn't sure if you wanted to correct that any since you already put in the time to regrind everything flat?

[@stargatefred]

Hi Dale. I just went out and checked my China Vise. When clamping a flat or square vertically I get .001 to .002 play when snugging it down. When I clamping a round bar I got almost .005 play. I am gonna watch this video a couple of times to see if I can make it any better. Thanks Dale. Bill from Seattle!

[@thzzzt]

I've been machining in a hobby capacity for a decade now and I still don't think I'm done drilling divots in my Chinese vise. I made yet another one just the other day. I tell myself it improves the aerodynamics.

[@okuno54]

Video starts at 3:45. Other than that, I learned a lot about toolmaking

[@robertw1871]

So my question is why does it take more time (money) to touch up the cheap one that it took to build the entire Kurt, it seems the comparison should be can you build a comparable vise to the Kurt for less than $600... Obviously, if everyone had a few million to blow on gear we’d all be in better shape as you tend to get what you pay for. I kinda doubt anyone buying a $200 dollar vise is expecting 1/10th accurate, especially when you’d need several hundred thousand or a lot more invested in the rest of the shop to even attempt it...

[@bradpage8967]

That’s a pretty good comparison!! You sold me on the American vice! With your grinder, you can pull the handle of the chuck to halfway and it will still hold a large piece but won’t distort it as much. It’s not as good as a variable magnet but it helps.

[@sblack48]

If you grind it down, how do you realign the feed screw and its nut? Wouldn't the nut be too low?

[@boriss.861]

Brilliant piece of work. 12 hours and a conclusion on why it does not perform as well. Keep smilin'

[@shiro-r4m]

The only time AvE reviewed a product of an entrepreneur he didn't break it down but gave constructive feedback about it.

[@METT-TC]

Don't forget the custom screwdriver he ordered. He loves that thing

[@poppaluv]

AvE?

[@assassinlexx1993]

@@poppaluv Yes the greatest Canuck ever

[@WideAwakeHuman]

@@poppaluv wow must be nice to discover Ave all over again... Lol. Look him up,

[@Lesfac]

Interesting videos in that they quantified the expected differences. I think the Chinese vice would work well for 95% of home machinists. When I was a toolmaker things were milled to a few thousands tolerance and anything required finer went on to be ground. I do wonder if the inaccuracies would be noticed by home machinists. The Chinese vice is appropriate for people with mini mills. I don't see a lot of sense in investing in a vice that cost two thirds the price of the milling machine. In a commercial workshop things are different and budgets are bigger. A good test would be a test piece from each vice milled on the same milling machine. Say a block milled to 4 x 6 x 2 inches

[@markuscamenzind5510]

Les Fackrell would love to see that too

[@professordrmao6321]

You get what you pay for. That’s why I don’t follow the logic of these sorta videos. Just like japan China also has professional brands.

[@angrydragonslayer]

@@professordrmao6321 i bought a $3500 chinese vice That was a bad time

[@markuscamenzind5510]

ahh forgot to ask how did you fit that imperial toque wrench to a metric vice as that was a big problem for you in the fist video

[@natevanbynen6595]

I have a chinese vice that started out rough but after grinding, deburring, fixing the keyway on the fixed jaw, adding 2 more bolts to fixed jaw and making the anti-lift feature on the moveable jaw nice and flat and smooth, i now have a vice I can use with repeatability :-) Oh yea the vise was only $100 and the knowledge and experience was priceless :-)

[@chrishill6276]

Nate Van Bynen i have one of these vices, sorry three, and they all suffer from lift???

[@scottgarloff1390]

I had a lot of questions and doubts until you made your final statements thank you for your honesty

[@motorbreath22]

I like this video more than the last because its not really bashing the vise but you are making comparison of quality, still it was a cheap shot at AvE, he has shown that even the most expensive tools make compromises, that some cheaper tools are worth it but more importantly that it takes someone taking it apart and seeing how its made to see which companies make the best compromises for the $$$, like he said he is partial to Snap-On but its not the best bang for the buck, and I love that now I know Makita engineers know where to use what components and what processes to make a high quality yet affordable tool. Keep up the good work.

[@anorenbergs]

Speak your mind, Sir! When you compare one thing to another in a plain view it puts things out there for everyone to see and nothing is hidden. What ever someone else says about your presentation is his/her decision, but I do understand that sometimes it hurts because you in, full fairness, did not think that such a critique would be necessary. Keep up the good job! Who wants to learn something from you will do, those who always argue will argue anyway. Thank for posting.

[@valkman761]

Dale, I've seen your videos pop up on suggestions but this was the first time I watched one. Excellent quality and very informative. I always thought you can upgrade your every badly made chinese versions to good ones, but apparently not. Subbed!

[@BuildSomthingCool]

Hi Valkman Thanks for subscribing :-)

[@LaPabst]

No safety glasses touching off a running grinder at 7:40, BRUTAL... you would be fired on the spot at my shop.

[@corndog6700]

I didn't notice if you adjusted the moving jaw down force screw in the middle between the 2 vise jaw screw holes. I tend to loosen mine up when I need to get the moving jaw adjusted fast, and snug it up when I need that jaw to stay down.

[@pauldevey8628]

I visited a US tool maker many years ago. They put the castings outside for 1-2 years before they machined them.

[@beachboardfan9544]

Was just about to type this into the comments 👍

[@xmenxwk]

why ? is there a problem if machine them soon ?

[@jeric_synergy8581]

Huh! I learned something today! Never knew, thanks for the factoid! ::seriously, no snark, very interesting::

[@crpth1]

I do recall a Brazilian race engine builder. Telling that one of his "secrets" was using old pistons to make new ones. His claim was precisely the "baking" process that age/use gave to his components was irreplaceable. That was in the late 70´s. ;-)

[@goldsearcher55]

Now this is what I wanted to see. I knew that the Kurt and the knockoff weren't the same, but could it be made the same? The answer you provided made sense with the casting problem. I enjoy the comparisons, and the solutions to any problems as well as the WHY factor.

[@stxrynn]

Wow.... Just, wow. This video was extremely informative. I have never run a surface grinder, but your strategy made perfect sense. That was worth the price of admission. When you make these videos, I watch it all, never know when a comment you make will make me and my shop more efficient. I buy what I can afford. I won't pass up a gift either! Then, the time it takes me to fix or clean is my tuition payment to learn how it works. Thank you for your time to educate me.

[@BuildSomthingCool]

+stxrynn That’s how I’ve paid of my dues in learning what I do. :). Thanks for your comment and for watching!

[@ericmousseau5707]

What is the perpendicularly of the fixed jaw under load on each vise? This is where I was VERY disappointed with the Chinese vise. We had one in the shop, similar clamping set up as you demonstrated, and it was out 0.008" - 0.015" up and down on the fixed jaw! I told my supervisor to get this out of the shop, we tried regrinding and wasting valuable time as well. Great video, thanks!

[@tribsat100]

Well said. I bought a CCVice it was all my budget would stretch to. It will get me some experience with my new milling machine where at first ,exceptional accuracy wont be an issue. They most certainly have a place in most workshops. I suppose as a rooky engineer it should be a project to improve it ,thus fulfilling a raison d’etre. Regards Stuart Bell from England UK.

[@shulubububadingdong]

Hey I have the same vice and thought about getting a more expensive vice but as a tool and die maker thought about fixing it with what i know. if you re-machine the key way to a tighter tolerance and drop in a 3/4 key. then get new bolts and put about 120lbs of tork on them. That will fix the vice and stop the solid jaw from moving because there was too much clerence in the key way.

[@mister60066]

Love your channel Dale, keep the videos coming!

[@cameronmccreary7697]

I have rebuilt the Chinese Kurt and outside of the density of the Chinese iron being porous the vise can be rebuilt to Kurt standards. But it is bad to rebuild a new vise when it should come usable out of the box???⁷ I also ground my vise in the milling machine which, I will be using the vise in, the vise ended up matched to the Mill's table and the spindle.

[@bro7269]

Those Chinese precision vises are the best money/quality I’ve ever spent.

[@markenna5955]

Excellent comparison, You did our community a great service by defining the quality issues with some imported products,

[@maxheadflow]

Not sure I understand how grinding the surfaces flat and a more proper angles would have helped with the "kick-up' of your test.. You could place an indicator on bed of the vice and see if it is flexing. Maybe it's something with the pull-down part of the movable jaw.

[@jsteifel]

So just to add to the fray, I took my old style bridgeport vise. Original BP , and with a tenths indicator did the same test. I am out .0017, so that's better than the knockoff. And this does not have anti lift design. So I am happy, I think I am in an acceptable range right now for my needs.

[@Artorius19631]

When cast iron cools unevenly or too quickly it will crack. Their problem has to to be that they’re timing the cool down period to the bare minimum to speed production but causes as you mentioned, post production warpage.

[@JaakkoF]

Torque wrench is nice, but did you actually check to see what the pitch on those screws were? I'm pretty sure that they are not the same, hence the force applied to the jaws is quite different with the same torque setting.

[@黄尚龙-o6n]

The deflection of the block depends on the pressure of its two sides. The torque is just the same on their screws. In order to measure the TRUE difference between them, the difference between the screws in the two vises may be needed.

[@CodyYankey]

This is a great way to get views. People love controversy. Thanks for taking the time and doing all this. I have been looking for used machinist vice in my area for the past 3 or 4 months now with little success. I won't be persuaded by the poor quality stuff.

[@valerieyax1623]

when grinding the base shimming is needed if the part rocks but this part weighs enough that the magnet is not needed when taking light grinding cuts . I also prefer a electro magnetic chuck when grinding it allows mag force to be adjusted just enough to hold the part down without distorting your part

[@cylosgarage]

I wish this channel didn't get so much hate. I had no problem with the last video, and none with this one either. Keep up the great work

[@DSCKy]

Yea, not sure why anyone would get their panties in a wad over this? :)

[@whitehoose]

DSCKy your panty fetish may yet be your downfall. I fail to understand why people don't get wadded when someone is looking them in the eye while distorting the facts like this. Do you give your money away so easily?

[@DSCKy]

What facts did he distort? He was upfront that the one vice was a freebee. He showed you the measurements. They speak for themselves?

[@whitehoose]

I've already explained my point, I'm not alone in seeing the tactics read the comments - If you can't follow the arguments there's not much point in repeating them. Stick with the panty fetish though I'm sure you'll make new friends, maybe start your own channel, get religion. To the innocent all things are possible.

[@houseofbrokendobbsthings5537]

Well said - the China vise is sold as a vise to do vise work. You did good work here. Opinions are like fish stories - everybody has one. You were clear and fair. The Chinese vise wasn't ready for production or high precision. if the machine is loose and sloppy as many home shop tools are - you will be just fine within the precision you can make. In short professionals need not apply to the Chinese vise.

[@houseofbrokendobbsthings5537]

Oh - thanks for showing a great product that I will look for as a one and done purchase. The old man said to the new machinist "kid why don't you start where you are going to end up with that tool - lots of money won't be wasted".

[@JetNmyFuture]

I just purchased 4 Kurt vises.......VERY happy they will arrive ready to work. I did, however, learn some toolmaker techniques. Makes me want to go buy a surface grinder just for fun.

[@EcoMouseChannel]

This is exactly why I saved up for a Yost vise, instead of being tempted with Harbor Freight coupons. The differences between USA made 65,000 psi ductile iron vs 10k gray iron is night and day. "Cheese Grade" is a perfect analogy. My HF vise literally failed like a block of cheese does when applying pressure. Just because something is heavy or made of this steel or this iron... does not mean they are the same. Or if the companies care about cost saving vs. quality at any price. It's up to us the consumer to learn about the subtle differences and nuances that go into manufacturing and cost-balance-ratios. Because the companies that are in business to get your money certainly know all the details.

[@pbc1951]

Great Video.... I am going to watch it again !!! I am new to milling, I have a low price 3" vise for my HF Mini mill.... at 20:00 you use a torque wrench .... about what ft lbs, or in. lbs. should I use on a 3" mill vise ? First time I used it never felt it got tight, second time I use it never felt to get tight, 3rd time fixed Jaw came off... stripped the 2 hold down bolts, I was easy on it, I am 70, have used many vises over the last 60 years, I know how to care for my tools. Thanks again for a great video.... Yes for home use, I don't need a $1,000 vise on a $700 mill.

[@williamcunningham5805]

One of the ways that Kurt keeps the moveable jaw from kicking up under load is by putting a couple of o-rings below it to give it some spring. This allows the ball mechanism (ang-lock, their main patent) to pull the jaw down and pull the part *down*, not up. One of the main ways the imports cheap out is by skipping something like that. You could have removed more of the part lift by cutting the mounts for a set of o-rings into that jaw. Maybe 20 minutes of time on the mill to use a 1/2" center cutting end mill and maybe $0.10 worth of o-rings straight from Kurt. It's all well and good to point out that it costs time and money to make that vise better than it came from the factory, but there's working smarter, not harder too.

[@benneves6649]

Great video but what's the point of grinding it, if you haven’t annealed it first? Surely it'll just spring?

[@hoghogwild]

Just an obesrvation At 5:57 when the magnetic base is applied to the cover of the grinder the safety cover actually moves. Not the best place to base measurements from.

[@ChimeraActual]

Ha! I've got that exact same chinese vise, with a turntable. Was about 15 years ago, I was a machining newb (still am, I suppose), I didn't have a surface grinder, but did have a new to me Bridgeport (1958 M-head) so I took the vise apart, flipped the body over and milled the base, then squared it out from there. I still have it, and it occasionally gets used. Was a pretty good beginner project.

[@bulletproofpepper2]

Great work. I’m not sure witch part I liked the most “ the trying to make a good vice for a bad vice “ or “ fixing all the bad grinding “ thinks for sharing.

[@jackmiller3628]

So what is good enough to do the job?

[@robertroy6094]

I like this channel too. Sometimes it is the destination that's important, sometimes its the journey. I wonder if the ball, and ramp surfaces need some attention. Keep up the good work.

[@noneofabove5586]

Nice video. I do not understand why the clamping did not improve. Is the ramp for the clamp nut smooth? I filed mine and the lift clamp was much better. Thanks for both video's, I enjoyed each of them. I have the chinese vice but this just helps me with desire for the Kurt.

[@Clete88]

I really enjoy your videos. They never fail to educate me. You would make a good instructor.....well, perhaps you were......Every video you've made has always been worth my time.

[@michaeljohnson1006]

Cool grind.... do you think the screw could have more lube changing the torque between the two?

[@watahyahknow]

kinof wondering where the 4/10th difference comes from if its indeed the metal casting bending up (could check the straightness of the bottom of the vice with the piece clamped in and torqued down if its holow its he back casting bending ) or the movable jaw lifting up (if its not the back see if the top of the movable jaw is still level or climbing up ) you might get it better by deleting the play between the parts

[@elmarqo_3448]

your video was Very informative. the timing was right for me too. I'm looking for a vise for my Atlas mill. I bought a foreign made vise but returned it because of its size. it seems to me that your level of understanding of shaping metal is akin to Tom's. well above my own. your insite challenges me. thnx

[@BuildSomthingCool]

Glad I could help

[@Loebane]

This is an awesome video, but what's up with the audio in some sections? It sounds like it's got compression or some other weird thing going on.

[@JaakkoF]

Regarding your grinding setup, you should have first put it the way side down, as that had the dish in it, making it very easy to shim from one corner and from the middle for support. Clamp, grind flat, flip it and grind flat. As for shims, nothing beats a stack of paper next to the grinder. Shove paper under the gap, tear off and shove another.

[@JaakkoF]

aaand it seems the reason you did that way was because of trying to fiddle this thing through on a grinder that is just way too small for the job.

[@howder1951]

Good demonstration on the economy of built in value. I have found over time some of the quality problems can be worked out, but seasoning castings and stress relieving both add to the cost of a product. Still in the home shop cheap generally rules, that's why these things are out there. Good video Dale, I enjoyed your efforts on the grinder. cheers!

[@michaelandersen5453]

just found you. love your way of explaining things. I'm just thinking of getting a small mill/drill for my shop. Of course I'm not a machinist I'm a Dentist, so for what you do I'm just a idiot wanting to do some stuff but can't afford or have the room for a Knee mill.I know they have specs like the Chinese vise, but this does show me what kind of vise is good and which ones are not. Hope to learn more watching your vids. thank you for taking the time to do them.

[@douglasclockmaker8779]

Thanks for the video Have just bought a grinder and this video is very useful Your comment of how much your time is worth is very true I always regret bargain purchases

[@neffk]

Even if you improve the geometry of an inexpensive vise, you can't change the material it is made out of. Besides the elasticity differences between different types of cast iron, durability is an issue. A new vise looks good but cheaper cast irons can't be hardened so they'll wear prematurely.

[@anvil8570]

Both videos where great thanks for in depth review.

[@bobtidy7164]

As a newbie who cant afford a $660 dollar vice it would be more relevant to compare what I could get for the price of the chinese vice ie secondhand old but quality/worn vice. Taking a swipe at others belongs in the playground, you do some great stuff. Let us judge who to follow

[@douglaslodge8580]

Well Hell Dale I liked your two videos and I like the fact you tried to fix the cheaper vice.

[@markuscamenzind5510]

How much was your Chinese grinding vice and how does it compare to an american one of the same price range?

[@bmq05]

I have had to do the same thing that you have done with my chinese vise. Years ago. You get what you pay for. I even made a fixed jaw with an integrated key. If you have the time to do all of this grinding and checking and milling, go for it. I look back at it now and think that I should have spent the extra dollars and gotten a kurt or better vise. It all comes down to how much is your time worth?. Good video!

[@ck8koneti]

how do you know that the readings are accurate? you are just moving the dial gauge on the table. is that a perfectly flat calibrated table? What sort of a table is that? won't the imperfections of the table's surface be visible in the dial gauge readings??

[@FrustratedBaboon]

Wow you turned that vice into a 1000% better one. I wonder if you heat treated the parts before grinding. Would that change anything ? I know you said it was lighter so that is a big factor already.

[@BuildSomthingCool]

No, Heat treating will not help. Its made out of a cheap cast iron.

[@Duceytwoducey]

This was very enjoyable thank you for these fun videos!

[@tek4]

The dig to ave is uncalled for. It's just like the example, Ave is not trying to say he is a master builder, or the Mercedes car, his function is to show us what's going in under the hood, what will go wrong and what is good. You in the other hand, show us cool things and go in to excited new products. It's not a comparison because like the vises, two different types of content, with two different goals. I love both channels, and will keep watching both.

[@Fredtheswedex]

Dont think AvE gives a fuck, but yes that was super lame.

[@Jcreek201]

He’s just butt-hurt because he’s decided to sell out and become a corporate shill like the rest. Gotta take a shot at the guy who refuses to fall in line..and calls out the bullshit.

[@keantoken6433]

So what if you make a hardened metal base for the vice to increase it's rigidity? Add back those 12 pounds of metal! BTW, if clamping warps your vice that much I wonder if it will also warp the mill table it's mounted to? Possibly increase the dovetail wear and binding?

[@keantoken6433]

What I meant was a plate to go under the vice, probably clamped to it by plenty of screws, to stiffen the base up. That is assuming the flex of the base is really the significant source of error here. But I assume it's a good thing if the base relies less on the rigidity of the mill table, as it means less flex of the mill table.

[@tracycurtright2671]

Your torque wrench will like you much better if you use a breaker bar instead of the torque wrench for loosening things

[@WildmanTech]

Thanks for the Effort Dale!

[@drubradley8821]

$650.oo for a KURT,sound well worth it to me... The idea you had allot of fun making the Chinesium unit squared / paralleled up or tried to, anyway, is understood, for your video content, but, to consider how much time one hour of time is worth, as per, the skilled machinist's at KURT is, it is worth to me, for the never failing product line. I have no issue, and gladly spend my money on the KURT units, and I like the idea, that my money is feeding the work force at KURT, I am sure the families their like to put food on their tables while raising a family. I am glad you mentioned the time and what one hour of a skilled work force is worth, for a fine product, as to not under-cut the American working families. Fun video to watch, though, Keep at it.

[@2010troyboy]

We appreciate the effort you put into the video's Dale. I think Stefan made a good point when he viewed these products from China as "kits. Its like rough stock...needs refining and finishing to bring it to a standard that's acceptable. Chinese Import tools are never made with any pride or heart.

[@robertvanstaalduinen7245]

I fully agree

[@davidharper4289]

Chinese tools can be excellent............the USA importers and distributors just want to pay for crap, to sell to you because YOU want it..............CHEAP!!!!!!

[@chs5h4]

Can I ask you where you got your dial indicator base?

[@BuildSomthingCool]

I think I got it at a flea market

[@m.s.l.7746]

Awesome...you gave it every chance (other than maybe stress releasing it before the re-grind) to work, or even improve a little...subscribed!

[@paultavres9830]

Back in the 60s Chevrolet used to bury their engine blocks After casting them they buried them in a field till they needed them so the blocks would season before machining My 66 chevy that I had has one of these blocks In reference to your comments about seasoning cast iron

[@franksalterego]

Question: When setting the indicator on a round square, how do you know when the point of contact of the indicator is perfectly above the point of contact with the base?.. Do the two points automatically fall in line? (I've always used the two opposing sides of a parallel to do this.)

[@robertvanstaalduinen7245]

franksalterego i think because the indicator base has a curve it is directly above the curve somewhere and by rolling it around the curve you find the highest reading... setting that to zero

[@peternichols9233]

We actually did this in a place I used to work and got similar results. But, if I remember correctly, the bed heights no longer met the standard 2.875". So, they could only be used by themselves.

[@KimberlyRPeacock]

The thinly veiled shot at Ave is not called for. Ave does not call himself a master machinist. He is an educated shop guy who can do a little of everything, and has shared his knowledge and encouraged many, to try and do something. He has a great sense of humor, and is honest. I loved your bit when you showed the making the curved handle on the lathe using it like you would a wood lathe. So thank you for teaching me something, but no need to knock someone like Ave.

[@assassinlexx1993]

Yes never insult the one who's face can not be revealed.

[@joemcgarry1106]

First time I have seen one of your videos. I really enjoyed it. I have been through similar experiences with Chinese tools. It comes down to what you pay for. I see you are using a Harig grinder. I spent many years using one, I subscribed to your channel, and I am looking forward to more.

[@bcbloc02]

So the advantage to the Chinese vise is when you drill it or nick it with an end mill you don't feel bad. :-) It would make a nice drill press vise.

[@BuildSomthingCool]

I like the way you think 😀

[@martinedelius]

I really appreciate the effort you put into this. Stellar work no matter what anyone thinks of the outcome.

[@5tr41ghtGuy]

Great video, Dale! I see you are making good use of your new metrology center. A poor quality vise will hold stuff, but that's about it. My experience working with cheap vises is one of working around the lack of consistent parallel / perpendicular surfaces. It can be done, but requires a lot of thought, and a lot of checking and rechecking before making any cuts.

[@kimbye1]

Great video. You are really good at explaining what you'r doing.