Chinese seals found in Ireland - 19th century antiquarianism

[@increpare_games]

Irish guy here, and I had never heard of this story. It was interesting!

[@TheChineseAlphabet]

Thanks!

[@ChristianJiang]

Great video, as always! I especially loved the final part: how the Irish related to these “archaeological” finds says more about themselves than the “Orient” that they seem to be discussing so fervently. One of the key aspects of Orientalism. The very fact that these seals led to so much speculation (and outlandish claims about an ancient connection) is also a reflection of the lack of-or, more precisely, the scarcity of-scholars specialised in Chinese, or people who could at least speak the language. Given the lack of tools to decipher these seals, and the slow pace of communication at the time for experts to speak out, these artefacts must’ve seemed even more exotic than they are. I remember going to an exhibition at the Cambridge University Library, which displayed one of the first East Asian books to have arrived to Europe. The Cambridge University Library seal was put on it, and the book was labelled as Chinese. A few centuries later, people realised that it was actually a Japanese book, and that the seal was put into it upside-down… The first people who had come across that book didn’t even know how to hold it the right way up!

[@TheChineseAlphabet]

Yes, that happened quite a bit. How would a Cambridge librarian know how to read Chinese books or even seals? But they wanted to engage…

[@Raj-ig7ou]

My favorite channel. Always with incredible narratives and knowledge explained in a simple way - as I think it should be. Given my department has no orientalist or similar, your work it is very inspiring for this little M.A. student. Could you, please, make a video in depth on how you learned Chinese (both Mandarin and Classical one). There are some videos where you deal with language experience, like a video on your first experiences in China after the Military Services - but the topic on instrumental usage of languages is quite uncommon on youtube. It is always very interesting to hear how the other scholars you brought here deal with the language(s) barrier.

[@TheChineseAlphabet]

Thank you! I am glad you enjoy the channel. Let me think about this video, I’ll try to come up with a way to present this kind of information.

[@aukebij3193]

Dutch VOC ships also brought thousands of these types of stamps whit them along with Chinese porcelain, here in the Netherlands they were sold as gaming pieces and can still be found in lots in antique shops here.

[@TheChineseAlphabet]

Wow, I had idea, that’s really interesting. Can you recommend a book or article to read about this?

[@aukebij3193]

@@TheChineseAlphabet some books are D. F. Lunsingh Scheurleer - Chine de commande C.J.A. Jörg Porcelain as a commodity. the porcelain trade as part of the VOC's China trade, 1729 - 1794. the smaller pieces such as opium boxes stamps netsukies. were mainly bought by the sailors of the VOC and sold at the black market trade, mainly on the Dutch and German markets. If you look at the crew lists of the VOC ships, there were also a few Irishmen who signed on to these ships. You could contact the VOC archive, which has more than five million documents in their possession. I would first look to see if any Dutch or VOC coins (VOC had its own mint and mint house) have been found in the area. Where the stamps are found, then you immediately have a connection between the stamps and the VOC

[@babelbrain]

What was the intellectual discourse at the time in the region that was eager to link Ireland to ancient Eastern Asia?

[@TheChineseAlphabet]

It was trying to disassociate themselves from the English, to show that they were completely different from them. But it was not primarily with China

[@babelbrain]

@@TheChineseAlphabet hah! I'm going to tell my Irish colleague that I'm Irish too now!

[@TheChineseAlphabet]

@babelbrain 😀

[@increpare_games]

@babelbrain IIRC there is a quite old Old Irish story which speaks of the Celtic people as originating from Scythia (this would show a remarkable cultural memory even if only approximately true - though I don't know what the current historical view of it is) - and, as mentioned in the video, possession of ancient Chinese artefacts would presumably lend credence to it.

[@babelbrain]

@@increpare_games fascinating! I'll have to look more into it!

[@kubhlaikhan2015]

Sounds like leftovers from a Hellfire Club treasure hunt. Why else would they have been scattered in such improbable places. They certainly aren't prehistoric.

[@TheChineseAlphabet]

They sure aren’t.

[@benmulvey2704]

Fantastic video. I'm not sure if Edmund Getty's motivation would have been primarily Irish nationalism, or if he would have seen himself as such. His Wikipedia bio shows him to very much be a part of the Protestant Anglo-Irish Ascendancy class. Later in the 19th century, some people from this background famously were Irish nationalists - WB Yeats, Maud Gonne, etc. But in the first half of the 19th century, the 1801 Act of Union joining Ireland & Britain was still new, and most people of Getty's background would have been supporters of it.

[@TheChineseAlphabet]

I see, thanks for clarifying that!

[@markmcarthy596]

Ireland has always been a safe haven for those seeking a place to comfort them while escaping the horrors further east. My ancestors tell tales of Egyptian Royals to a wandering Jesus coming not just to escape but to reconnect with the comforting forces of nature. Druids instructed many Sages through the mists of time

[@TheChineseAlphabet]

Sounds like your family has some stories tobtell

[@alekseiismirnov]

Lovely story. Perhaps it was a prank gone bit too far 😁 Did I understand correctly that they are not personal seals, but rather mass-produced stamps with sayings, similar to modern rubber stamps for children?

[@TheChineseAlphabet]

Yes, they are seals with auspicious sayings or quotes from poems. Perhaps more expensive than rubber stamps but not personal ones.

[@Mi_Fa_Volare]

9:36 County of Kilkenny

[@TheChineseAlphabet]

👍