Queen - Rainbow 1974 - Live vs. Overdubs (Episode 1)

[@jacobh9344]

13:37 that crack on ‘58 sounds really good

[@jozsefmolnar7606]

Yea, gives it some good old intensity.

[@him6956]

You’re not wrong

[@StefanoVuoto17]

Has anybody noticed John screaming "LIAR" in his probably switched off mic at 31:35? Love it

[@ellenmyers971]

I have been straining to hear his voice like when he sings with Freddie love it 👑👑🌹🌹🤘🤘

[@Naltrex]

20:08 For some reason, that really nice note that John hit on the bass was removed for the 2014 version.

[@nomedocanal8496]

noticed that. pretty lame

[@Chinwonder2]

**Timestamps: ** March 31st, 1974: 0:00 - Title / Explanation 0:35 - Father To Son 2:58 - Ogre Battle 6:17 - Son And Daughter 8:10 - White Queen 8:19 - Great King Rat 8:26 - The Fairy Feller's Master-Stroke 9:03 - Keep Yourself Alive 11:16 - Seven Seas Of Rhye 13:14 - Modern Times Rock 'n' Roll 15:14 - Liar 17:21 - See What A Fool I've Been November 19/20th, 1974: 17:30 - Now I'm Here 23:01 - White Queen 25:53 - In The Lap Of The Gods 26:27 - Killer Queen 26:50 - The March Of The Black Queen 27:09 - Son And Daughter 29:00 - Liar 35:24 - In The Lap Of The Gods...Revisited 41:07 - Jailhouse Rock

[@p.r.c.1720]

Very good singer

[@YaderPinzon]

I would like to know in what fuete you found the concert of queen live at the rainbow VHS version 1992, not the audio of 2014, I would like that version with the original audio because I liked the video quality you showed us not to be an unremastered video of 2014 Thank you I await your answer :) Exactly the correction of 19 November 1974 :')

[@YaderPinzon]

I really like this series :)

[@cristianm.5689]

Regarding the November shows, what I'm getting is the 2014 release is more real to the original performance. Sure there's a bit of pitch corrections, but that's better than completely overdubbing just about the whole effing concert like on the bootleg

[@marriusmal]

I hate any kind of correction whatsoever.

[@ellenmyers971]

Yes I Agree leave it like FREDDIE Sang it Please why would they do that ? My God can't things just be left the way they were 😤😡😢

[@ariesmercurio1869]

I didn't like the 2014 remaster, Freddie is full of autotune,it sounds like a computer program instead of Freddie singing

[@darkprose]

Unless you were physically present at these concerts, the chances of hearing Queen without overdubs, pitch correction and, yes, autotune, are low and getting lower. That’s the reality. Music is entertainment.

[@ariesmercurio1869]

@@darkprose some bootlegs respect the original recordings

[@FoxBoi69]

8:26 i really really wish there would be an unedited recording of that performance

[@tinyboi_]

supposedly, it was shown at the SIS exhibition in 2011 along with the rest of the concert. So that might have been it.

[@FoxBoi69]

@@tinyboi_that sounds super interesting and i hope you are right. do you have more info on that?

[@tinyboi_]

@@FoxBoi69 well I heard it on some other video quite like this one. The comment was from someone who actually filmed it but lost the footage. Hopefully another recording surfaces.

[@lindsay1065]

yes! its my favourite queen song and it crushed my heart when i heard what they did to freddies voice :( may as well have a robot singing it

[@NateEMG]

@@tinyboi_ I think you mean the November shows because the entire first night was shown there

[@aqua_bree]

'White Queen' in the November show just straight up blew my mind.... The difference between the two is insanely outstanding & it makes me so sad that they felt the need to change it so much, he sounded so beautiful & soft in the original performance 😔

[@ellenmyers971]

Yes thank you

[@NateEMG]

basically almost the whole of white queen was overdubbed on the vhs

[@khiemvu8667]

Actually, I think the VHS version (the softer one) was the one that was overdubbed on the VHS. When he says "night as this," the 2014 version matches up with the visuals more than the other one

[@olivedrums353]

0:44 it also apears that they made rogers(?) mic louder, making freddie sound deeper. sounds really cool!

[@sinajakelic]

8:40 this must be the most disgraceful badly executed pitch correcting job i have heard in my life. just leave the natural vocals in, everybody understands that even the greatest singer in the world can sometimes be off or tired (or just jumping around on stage) and hit an off-note or two. who likes to hear computer warbled gurgling done by a poorly executed pich correct? nobody. if you really HAVE to ‘fix’ a singer of Freddie’s magnitude, at least don’t do a sloppy job. can’t believe they allowed this artrocity get in the final release. so disrespectful to the singer. I can do a better job using cubase myself, just give me the master tracks ;) btw - great upload Chin, I enjoy your work both in YT and QZ!

[@MLBFCollection]

Didn’t expect to see you here, but totally agree, they butchered this. Besides, no need to correct Freddie. These shows should be heard in their original capacity, especially this one! You might see a best source merge sometime soon, of the rawest possible version of the show, in the best quality :-)

[@edwardrhodes8983]

I love it when Freddie's voice cracks on the word ploughboy, it's so raw and natural!

[@jacobh9344]

Crappy 2014 version: Plough - Boy C A E Probably What Freddie actually sang: Plough - Boy A A E My opinion: F**k Queen Productions.

[@giovannigobbi4832]

@@allkindsofcollecting Where would you find the raw version?

[@NateEMG]

@@allkindsofcollecting The raw version was never released tho

[@vicentegalleguillo6933]

4:47 dirrrrrection

[@applecider]

i was watching the rainbow 74 concert then i noticed the excessive and unnecessary autotuning.. i can barely stand it. i was pleased to find these videos, thank you.

[@bettybaby63]

Looking forward to watching, but sometimes I get annoyed with these bc they should leave Freddie alone!

[@dianecourtney2724]

Amen

[@РоманПанських]

Wowwwww it’s FANTASTIC idea! Thanks

[@exsaider5826]

8:13 well, if we listen to bbc version from april 3, "in her hair" line actually sounds almost same. So, it might be freddie's natural falsetto that time (before nodules?)

[@aqua_bree]

Freddie's voice in the original audio: 🍼👶🏻 Freddie's voice after all the editing: 💪🏻👨🏻

[@hombrerusode40anos72]

Hello devine lush creature

[@Naltrex]

More like Pre pitch correction: 👨💪 After pitch correction: 🤖🎙

[@Jdud.]

@@hombrerusode40anos72 HOMBRE RUSO QUE HACES ACÁ ?

[@hombrerusode40anos72]

@@Jdud. tambien fui fan de queen jujuju

[@Jdud.]

@@hombrerusode40anos72 ajhaa si sabia pero no me esperaba verte a vos espesoficamen aca Igualmente yo nada más quería ver una cosa ya tanto no le entró a queen

[@youcare_somuch2433]

So unnecessary. It’s crazy that some high and mighty music producers decided that being slightly off on pitch is reason to mechanically alter one of the best voices this world has ever heard. The pitch correction takes away the realism of the bootleg. It makes no sense to alter these barely noticeable “mistakes”.

[@Harry-jz1dn]

In all fairness, it's a commercial release to the general public and not just us hardcore fans. I can get why they'd want the band to sound their best (even if that means cheating a bit)... also got to keep up Freddie's legacy as being pitch-perfect and always on fire every time he sang... which as we all know on tour was far from the truth after wild partying, smoking and just a total lack of discipline in keeping his vocals healthy (tho the throat nodules didn't help). They're not the only band who does this. Got to remember I'm sure that Brian and Roger would hear this before it went out too and they'd want it touched up if needed, especially on their parts. With Roger's hatred of the Live Killers album and how bad it sounded and the band having no say in that particular album's final release, I'd be very surprised them not wanting any live releases since having a bit of studio wizardry added where needed. As some have said below, it was the same with Wembley 86... tho if only they released the Friday night instead! They were awesome that night, especially Freddie.

[@lifeisntfairpg3d141]

Not one of the best THE BEST

[@RomioriTheGamer]

8:30 LMAO, freddie's voice in that part sounded so weird and funny for some reason

[@duncansmoviesandanimation6555]

Are you talking about Roger, or is that actually Freddie's voice?

[@RomioriTheGamer]

​@@duncansmoviesandanimation6555 that's Freddie bruh, Roger only sings in the chorus harmonies

[@RomioriTheGamer]

And even though it sounds strange, it's still the original vocal (pitch corrected) only with his weird falsetto, listen to White Queen from this gig and in the line "stars of lovingness in her hair" you'll notice the same weird falsetto as well.

[@duncansmoviesandanimation6555]

@@RomioriTheGamer I've always thought that was Roger. I never knew that was Freddie.

[@FoxBoi69]

so rogers vocals from in the lap of the gods were not edited at all? that is very nice!

[@K_Jailberg]

Merry Christmas Chin BTW can't wait for Live in Montreal (Live vs Overdubs)

[@roransu]

Great stuff! Looking forward to the next episode. :)

[@gbclab]

What a great work!!!

[@Behrad121M2329]

I think the most overdubbed concert is the Hammersmith odeon 1975

[@Chinwonder2]

It’s going to be either Montreal or Wembley! lol. Only problem with Montreal is we don’t have a raw tape from the second night.

[@GeometryDashLatino]

Budapest pls

[@queenremix1353]

@Super Talez You're just copying what Marc Ajax said.

[@queenremix1353]

@Super Talez Make sense before talking bro, then we can debate.

[@ronaldreagan1068]

I thought Hammersmith 75 and Milton Keynes 82 weren’t even overdubbed just slightly pitch corrected.

[@riddlesford106]

Nice. Now do Wembley!!

[@thetomey]

That would be a really long video 😂

[@crazy4gta1]

Especially the Saturday concert😂

[@emitwilson8906]

Wouldn't be as long as Montreal

[@JourneyLiveCompilations]

Grab your popcorns

[@patriciakent6728]

Thanks for tge run down

[@albertooha]

Great work thanks

[@odalisortega6035]

Música para mis oídos. GRACIAS QUEEN...

[@m4cchio88]

26:45 ok but the 'wanna try' sounds so much better than the pitched corrected one.

[@vincentmichaelcomia4307]

Yeah agreed more like original

[@khizarjamil7664]

Superb video!!

[@ariesmercurio1869]

The 2014 release IS closer to the original performance

[@adonaiyah2196]

So which versions were dubbed

[@ariesmercurio1869]

@@adonaiyah2196 the 1975 bootleg and the 2002 version of now i'm here are the overdubbed The 2014 is heavily pitch corrected but doesn 't have overdubs

[@luixpaproductions]

Someone should create a Best source merge Of this show based on this video!

[@princesslluviacaelentament1198]

Autotune was invented when the music industry realized it was never *never* going to come close to Freddie's voice.

[@giovannigobbi4832]

Freddie was already being overdubbed in 1979

[@MilesAway]

@@giovannigobbi4832 Overdubbing isn't autotune lol

[@MilesAway]

@@giovannigobbi4832 Also freddie recorded overdubs as early as 74/75 because Rainbow was meant to be released

[@giovannigobbi4832]

@@MilesAway Overdubbing is still a gimmick to prove performance. From a conceptual point of view it's the same thing

[@Naltrex]

@@giovannigobbi4832 Not really. Pitch correction is as easy as putting an audio file into a DAW and letting it do it's job, even automatically. Overdubs require talent from the singer, they require Freddie to sing naturally.

[@allkindsofcollecting]

It seems as though there was lots of pitch-correction used on the March show (however I'm still not sure about the climb on 'Solider, sailor, tinker, tailor, ploughboy' from Fairy Feller's - it sounds natural to me), but the November show is a lot more natural and raw, removing all the overdubs from the '92 version, and a slight use of pitch correction to fix some bum notes.

[@bsidetowhat]

Nice

[@jacobh9344]

I don’t want to sound really annoying, but at 9:04 you said “road a million miles” instead of “rode a million miles”

[@BobHarley]

Autotune on official release killed it. Original bootlegs were much better, even if "Queen live in the studio" would be a better title. BTW any chance you have 1992 version of November show? Torrents are dead, my old HDD with this one is dead too :/

[@Chinwonder2]

Do you happen to have a Discord account? If so, I can send it there, if not message me your email address :)

[@BobHarley]

my discord nick: Janusz_Maj#2957

[@Chinwonder2]

Sent a friend request, I have the same name on Discord as here.

[@Sorry-dw5bd]

Hi Bob, that is not the best variant (I downloaded it from KZbin) but I'm sharing what is: drive.google.com/open?id=1N9pohhUGRukj8-u2n4Za5rh-QKPKKh66 P.S. I also have several copies of original VHS from Box of Tricks, but it seems to me this videocassette isn’t so hard to buy at all

[@edwardrhodes8983]

During Son and Daughter, when Freddie says 'And then what?' in the VHS edition you can hear the studio version of 'Too be a woman' interrupt this line. A very strange and messy edit.

[@Little-jo-77]

No it doesnt lol

[@jaccmercury]

Great job!

[@lukebradford]

I'm going to say upfront that I have hearing problems when it comes to higher pitches. That being said, I can't hear the difference between any of the pitch corrections and the original performance. And the 2014 version sounds much better to me anyway. I don't care about corrections or overdubs for the most part anyway. The vast majority (and I mean VAST) are improvements. Not the overdubs on the 92 VHS though, it's a good thing the majority of those were removed.

[@JonBecker81]

He sounded like a completely different singer pre nodules. He started singing more with a chest voice live but even that wouldn’t save him love in the mid 80’s.

[@ZENOBlAmusic]

It is more difficult to sing in chest voice. Despite Freddie's high pitched sound, he had more range in the 80's then in the 70's. His voice just basically had a much more high pitched sound earlier in his career. In the 80's his voice became more powerful, and deeper, thus it always seemed like he was singing lower then what he was actually singing.

[@sheatiller2465]

12:55 why is his overdub still heard as a ghost on the 2014 release?

[@davis_taylor.1984]

Man I think I will not listen the official release anymore...

[@timmytunes348]

The official release has less overdubs than the bootlegs though.

[@Musiccollectionyeah]

​@@timmytunes348 Most overdubs were removed but with awful pitch-corrections.

[@FAN-iz4eo]

Cool

[@bassplayer8815]

at 3 minute for Orge Battle everyone should know Brian May made his guitar so it WOULD feedback too. I really like the feedback

[@ariesmercurio1869]

18:33 the "in my eye" overdub is so poorly edited, Freddie closes his mouth and "eye-eh" keeps sounding lol

[@lukebradford]

Likely one of the reasons they decided to remove the majority of the overdubs for the 2014 release.

[@matiaseee8273]

The ending of Father To son on March Rainbow was also overdubbed. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3XVqYSgm7-WbJI kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoTTdmd4oZtln5I In the older release you can hear Freddie singing the last "son" (G4) in falsetto,but in the newer one you can hear him belting it,like all the other versions during the era.

[@frannpoveda]

26:50 in the description of the video says that the second one is the real performance, but in the image says the otherwise, which is the real?

[@matts6412]

The first one is real, where his voice breaks during the word "queen". The second one is the overdubbed one.

[@ariesmercurio1869]

VHS-live at the Rainbow "light" edition 2014 blu Ray - live at the Rainbow "powered" edition

[@aqua_bree]

Could you *PLEASE* send me the link or tell me where I can find the original footage with the original audio that you've used in this video? 🥺🙏🏻 I've looked EVERYWHERE, but I still can't find the VHS version of this concert 😣

[@dillerson6681]

Are you still trying to find, cuz i have it

[@andyw.3048]

@@dillerson6681 Yes please!

[@TheAnime06]

Freddie never sang "so funny" in falsetto in none of the other lives from 1974 so imo that's an overdub too.

[@scottishbuttercookie7499]

Sempre spettacolari. Ma a che servivano queste correzioni??

[@seanmcaleer4316]

The worst part is they switched throughout boat days of the shows. For an example in the lap of the gods is from the second night

[@portlandshomlessproblem1728]

That’s pedantic like saying that frampton comes alive is worse because it wasn’t all recorded in one night.

[@m1co294]

I agree, quite pedantic. Rock Montreal also oscillates between the two nights (especially the video) and Live Killers is composed of many EU Jazz shows, some songs even switch between entirely different nights i.e. Brighton Rock is a combination of atleast three gigs alone!

[@Gordon669]

They sound to me like they are from different gigs. After all they played the Rainbow 3 times in 1974

[@daru_snm]

Its funny

[@gokceralp]

Between 1:02 and 1:11, there's no Freddie singing falsetto. Are you sure you know what a falsetto is?

[@Naltrex]

1:06

[@carrot_slayer_of_patatos]

I would turn my pfp into a apple for the fairy fellers master stroke without pitch correction

[@onlygonstreet]

not to mention the obvious KYA overdubs in the movie

[@ivanschickendantz]

How do you know when there's an overdub? Is there a way to notice that? It's very slightly different the both audios and very hard to listen this differences.

[@ivanschickendantz]

@Studio 404 thank you for the answer. But isn't harder when there's not footage? I mean, there's audio only, for example, the march Rainbow gig. We don't have a visual reference to demostrate overdubs. We can only notice that because the 5.1 mix. Another question: How can we difference in the sound between overdubs and loops from the other gig (this live album is an example because was recorded in 2 hardly identical gigs in november 1974)?

[@Chinwonder2]

The only real reason these overdubs where found, was because we had sources of this concert from a relatively untouched recording, which is the bootlegs mentioned in the video. We were then able to compare the releases with the bootlegs and wok out which are real and overdubs vocals. It's MUCH easier with audience recordings as you know they are a genuine and untouched recording but until Brian or QPL release the audience recording that Brian's mother made or the raw soundboard, we won't know for certain.

[@michelletammydenney6549]

Chinwond, Could you please help me find the video with Dave Clark walking Freddie out of the end of a show? I think it was in 77

[@melissabattles3196]

Hey! So this is really late, LOL. I'm not sure if you've found the video you were looking for, or if this is it. But during this mini doc he's being walked back from a show, and it's from a '77 concert, so I think it might be the one you meant. Anyway, it's an adorable video! :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3bPpqNmga6fitk

[@mario486waluigi2]

At least the 2014 release had some Advantages other than pitch correcting Freddie's voice

[@DuncanThomas-lq7lq]

Where did they find the audio to dub it?

[@aaronevans4660]

Does anyone have the 1975 cinema version?

[@Chinwonder2]

Here you go! mega.nz/#!m5cGlD7b!o5fWUxAa9Q_aWkmAzAF2XcSzJ8hHyXbF98vRBoxq_oQ

[@patricksommer3971]

I love the original I Live To Give You phrasing in father to son

[@vincentmichaelcomia4307]

Why Brian didn't use the red special on liar at rainbow (March)

[@QueenAllTheWay]

he broke a string at some point during "All day long" solo

[@vincentmichaelcomia4307]

@@QueenAllTheWay on the "mama I'm gonna be your slave all day long"?

[@QueenAllTheWay]

That’s right

[@aqua_bree]

PLEASE DO THE SAME THING WITH HAMMERSMITH ODEON 12/24/1975

[@Chinwonder2]

That's the next episode in the series!

[@aqua_bree]

@@Chinwonder2 Ahhhhh, can't wait!!!!! When do ya think it will be uploaded? :) I L❤️VE this series you're doing! I can't even begin to express how it makes me feel that there are so many VERY unnecessary edits & "corrections" in this concert that truly did not need any fixing whatsoever! Raw is better, I personally prefer to hear all of the mistakes & such in their live performances. I do however get that they did it for production reasons or whatever, but stILL.... 😒

[@aqua_bree]

@@Chinwonder2 anyway, I *L O V E* your channel my dear ♥️

[@DuncanThomas-lq7lq]

@@aqua_bree you wish is in luck

[@FredrickTheMoose2007]

8:30 is the worst autotuned part In my opinion

[@BobHarley]

8:41 is even worse

[@nosoyyo5441]

8:45

[@lukebradford]

I can't even hear the difference.

[@nedmarc]

If Queen overdubbed on the bootlegs, does this mean the band intentionally "released" a bootleg?

[@ariesmercurio1869]

Maybe they planned to release an official Rainbow album and for whatever reason they cancelled it (?)

[@real_Rno]

@@ariesmercurio1869 Correct. They were working on an official release but eventually scrapped the tapes. It made it into the hands of bootleggers.

[@ariesmercurio1869]

@@real_Rno if i 'm not wrong they cancelled it because they considered too soon to release a live album after just 3 studio albums

[@real_Rno]

@@ariesmercurio1869 I believe first comment was asking about the March bootleg. According to Queen’s official site, the release of that one was canceled because they wanted to record Sheer Heart Attack songs instead. As for the two November shows, it wasn’t clear if they wanted to make an official album out of those. A half hour cut of that did make its way into theaters in 1976 with a longer VHS cut in 1992.

[@YusefIsAGod]

Pitch correction hurts my ear, it should be a crime to use it, specially on one of the greatest voices of our time.

[@NateEMG]

well it's unfortunately a standard to add pitch correction to live performances to perfect them

[@bricodurden180]

where do i find the full bootleg version?

[@Chinwonder2]

Here’s a download link to both bootleg sources: mega.nz/#!0OgDALob!RwRqtVk8dE10RXrqHdI9CUUbrnNf7IXBVHeTTQyTTlk mega.nz/#!ACIHjIYK!OqnOmYaKkRNi3drPRhB9caNLwaN8G53LmgsCKsaLL3w

[@bricodurden180]

@@Chinwonder2 lovely darling

[@KIM-fz1cm]

​@@Chinwonder2 no longer available 😭

[@marriusmal]

I'm so confused. Which one is the original one the first one you hear right? Has it been modified as well?

[@edgarferrer8084]

No it is the second one. Sometimes the real one isn't modified, sometimes it's pitch corrected.

[@edgarferrer8084]

It says in the description and beginning of the video anyway.

[@marriusmal]

@@edgarferrer8084 Ok thanks.

[@theliberationstation8457]

i want to hear the real thing, not music that has been "corrected"!

[@NateEMG]

I prefer the autotuned versions because they sound better and they are better than overdubs because it's at least mostly true to the original performance.

[@zowieknox]

they shpuld leave things the way they are

[@trentoninnewjersey]

True. I am however glad they fixed the obvious overdubs that were included in the bootleg

[@lessalazar9068]

So many of these are so incredibly unnecessary

[@jamesfretwell1511]

Why is it just queen you do this for?

[@helmsylvanian]

why not it's their channel lol

[@benitostudiosofficial8701]

I think you forgeted about roger taylor's falsseto of in the lap of the gods, in the original audio sounds less artificial as you can hear in the 2014 release.

[@ascentfevers]

How are there overdubs in the bootleg?

[@Chinwonder2]

If you read the queenlive.ca link in the description, it’ll help you understand the bootleg a bit better :)

[@ariesmercurio1869]

@@Chinwonder2 Just a question,exist a version of the show without overdubs or autotune?

[@Jdud.]

@@ariesmercurio1869 probably not But can you believe using this video At least with Liar you can but is a hell of a work because you can't find the bootlegs use here so if you want to make an no ouberdub matrix you will have to download this video, download the hole gig of the 2014 being the least Ouberdub version and see this houndreas of times to see the hole Ouberdubs, cut the parts of this video showing the original line and put in the performace I would try to do it with Liar and I'm sure that would be painfull

[@ariesmercurio1869]

Queen originally would release their first live album called "sheetkeekers" in 1974 which eventually is the bootleg that you hear in the video which is a mix made by Roy Thomas Baker,it was an idea from the sheffield brothers, however Queen dropped the idea because they felt that it was too soon to release a live album and prefered to keep recording new music instead Of course the mix fall in the hands of boltlegers and eventually was unnofficially released

[@ellenmyers971]

I am sorry but I don't think it's right !!!! WOW how could they ? Damn So Sorry FREDDIE 😭

[@KIM-fz1cm]

Still good

[@baguetteball33]

The original audio of The Fairy Feller's Master Stroke exist? Because I don't find it but it's impossible he doesn't exist

[@edgarferrer8084]

It exists, but in Queen's archives.

[@baguetteball33]

@@edgarferrer8084 Ok😢 thanks you

[@m.ak.s.1298]

Freddie wouldn't be proud of this.

[@BobHarley]

But would he be proud of Queen Productions autotuning his voice?

[@m.ak.s.1298]

@@BobHarley As I said, NO

[@Musiccollectionyeah]

​@@m.ak.s.1298 Freddie said "Do what you want with my music, just don’t make it boring." Does that autotune sounds boring?😂

[@peke9908]

Latest

[@ariesmercurio1869]

All releases of this show are terrible The bootleg is basically "live at the Rainbow studio" with those Double tracks and overdubbed vocals And the 2014 release It 's horribly pitch corrected , Freddie sounds awful

[@EmmanuelC4D]

Where i can find the Rainbow 1992 VHS?

[@EmmanuelC4D]

@Super Talez drive or discord