Chloe Bourgeois' Family Is The Absolute Worst⎮A Miraculous Ladybug Season 5 Discussion

[@Nxlwennnn]

Chloe's mom verbally abused her multiple times and Andre just stands there trying to please his wife, but when his step daughter got bullied by Audrey, he jumps into action and is all like oh Zoe is my daughter. Geez that must hurt for Chloe, I would start crying if that happened to me

[@michaelsarmiento3057]

I would kind of a person Mr. Lee is. Do you think Mr. Lee is a nice father and knows how to stand up to Audrey. If so, this explains why Zoe is a nice and kind character. Also, if Mr. Lee is not a bad parent, I would like to see Mr. Lee taking Chloe in.

[@72Worker]

@@michaelsarmiento3057 Unfortunately we know nothing of Zoe's father. All we know is he seemed content to let their daughter remain in a horrible boarding school. Maybe during the next arc we'll see Lila make a mistake dealing with Chloe that gives Chloe self awareness of what her family is really like and why her mother can't be trusted.

[@michaelsarmiento3057]

@@72Worker I heard in Miraculous wiki that Zoe Lee's only friend is Jessica Keynes.

[@72Worker]

@@michaelsarmiento3057 Who?

[@michaelsarmiento3057]

@@72Worker Jessica Keynes. The character that made appearance in Miraculous Special: New York and the wielder of the Eagle Miraculous and the sidekick of Nightowl.

[@Tara191]

Honestly, Chloe's perents are horrible. Her dad, doesn't give her any attention, he just spoils her. And Audrey....I don't even wanna talk about her.

[@blueotter5954]

We don't talk Audrey...no seriously, the less we know the better.

[@nameirakpamfemen6154]

We don't talk about Audrey, no no no We don't talk about Audrey~~

[@cammy_totaldrama]

@@nameirakpamfemen6154 We don’t talk about Audrey No~

[@thatcrazyperson1645]

Yeah he doesn’t the only thing I see is him spoiling her

[@ANIMATIONLOVERBT]

@@thatcrazyperson1645 that backfires

[@Lrd_Storm]

Andre is neglectful and puts no effort in his family. Audrey is neglectful too, she is verbally abusive to everyone and narcissistic. Chloe is the product of a disfunctional family scarred by her mother's absence of her life and by imitating her she hopelessly tries to earn her affection. Zoe is a patch Thomas created to fill in the gaping hole Chloe's scrapped redemption arc left

[@michaelsarmiento3057]

What about Mr. Lee? What is he?

[@jaredfrancis5062]

​@@michaelsarmiento3057a Himbo? Homewrecker? A side D1*k?

[@ConstantinDOSSOU-vy1zo]

Zoe really doesn't deserve all this hatred . It isn't the fault of her character than the writing has a problem . If Chloe didn't have a destroyed redemption arc she would be just a character loved by the fanbase . If the writers wanted than Chloe change , they would just Zoe to help her . Zoe was just introduced in the show in the worst possible moment . Astruc ruined Zoe 's reputation by using her like a tool for his hate

[@Lrd_Storm]

@@ConstantinDOSSOU-vy1zo Don't get me wrong. It's not that I believe she doesn't have potential. Or that she's completely uninteresting. But, let's be honest. That's the only reason she's here and they're not gonna develop her properly

[@HackiePuffs]

I really wish that the writers didn’t throw Chloe’s redemption down the drain it would’ve been adorable to see Chloe and Zoe bond as sisters without having to feel pressured by their broken family.

[@OfficialDeanAdler]

Honestly I don’t think the writers threw it out. It was bound to happen. Chloe bragged about being a superhero and making it sound like she’s a better superhero than Ladybug after everything that happened in Queen Wasp. She doesn’t have any empathy because she emulates her personality from her mom’s, and ladybugs personality in a span of 2-3 months isn’t just going to substitute out Audrey’s personality that has been Chloe’s personality in 14 years. Not to mention how Chloe didn’t want to genuinely help people, she just wanted Ladybugs approval and validation. Chloe was doomed from the start and now is basically too far gone at this point.

[@beyondseaisinyourwalls9279]

@@OfficialDeanAdler I agree, but I feel like part of the fandom had high hopes for a redemption arc since it really seemed like she was changing for the better. I guess they didn't make it obvious enough to us that Chloé was still the same person even during the events of season 2

[@trevortucker9586]

Yeah but honestly, it's exactly like that in real life. Not every character can be redeemed and for those that get the chance and choose to squander it; there's not much you can do. They have to want to truly change the better and not just cave to the path they've been going down. Also, it can't always be because someone else with better morals told them to either. It's too easy for Chloe to go down that path and she never stops herself before it's too late. Even when her goal is to do good, there is still a strong part of her that's not doing it because it's the "right thing". No, instead it's because it's "I'm doing the right thing, and I will be known, remembered for doing the right thing" The big part of Chloe that needs to change is her self-interest, self-motivation and selfish needs in general. She is relatable in some aspects and even someone you can feel a sense of sympathy for. She's been constantly alone for most of her life with little to no real interaction from her family and has developed very unhealthy ways of dealing with her loneliness and most other issues she has. This includes the way she views and treats people. She built up an obsession with being wanted, and needed by everyone around her. Chloe wanted to be needed by Ladybug and ultimately that became her undoing. She does constantly seek approval from other people, especially her mother and we get that but, if she's not going to accept herself as she is and her own actions, fight for her own benefit to become someone better. Then it doesn't matter. She will continue to circle around the same path again and again with nobody willing to help her someday. Making real friends with the others is something I'm sure Chloe has thought of at points and we can even see that, but, it's not tempting enough for her to change who she currently is. Will there be a change eventually where she becomes a truly good person? Considering this is a show made with children in mind, yes, because there always has to be a happy ending of some sort. But honestly, I think it would be better if she never gets the chance to redeem herself. There needs to be consequences for her actions and she needs to have remorse beyond a fleeting feeling. I would like somewhere toward the end of the series for her to be acknowledged but still not fully accepted. Leave it to the audience to feel that she has to work pretty hard to make up for the person she's been all this time, not just instantly gain friends at the end.

[@ryancarson6962]

@@OfficialDeanAdler How was it "bound to happen"? For one, that's objectively not true, Chloé is a fictional character who's development as a character is beholden to the whims of the writers. Yes Chloé bragged about being a hero, but that's only showing pride in being a hero, that doesn't equal suddenly working with the villain who menaced you for three seasons now on a whim, that's obviously a decision made by the writers at the last possible second. Now Chloé does emulate Audrey's personality but wether or not we want it to be, that fact means jack shit in terms of her development, the writers certainly never given much attention to how toxic an influence her mother is, considering how her mother has literally nothing to do with the fallout between Chloé and Ladybug, they just made it about the stupid "if Hawkmoth knows who you are you can't be a hero rule" which Marinette backtracks on in literally the very next season with literally everyone else since after Miracle Queen Hawkmoth knows who everyone is and yet this doesn't change a thing for them, in fact Ladybug relies on them even more. This entire conflict was manufactured from the start.

[@OfficialDeanAdler]

@@ryancarson6962 I never said the writing wasn’t flawed. It is. A lot. But you’re failing to understand how bad Chloe is. It would be different if Chloe just didn’t talk about being queen bee out of embarrassment, but she bragged about being queen bee after putting everyone in that train in danger, showing she doesn’t have any compassion nor empathy for them. So it’s not the lack of pride that is necessarily bad, it’s the lack of basic human empathy. Chloe only wants Ladybugs validation and even after being told that she couldn’t be queen bee for legitimate reasons, she still chose to be on the villains side, because the villain gave her what she wants: power and purpose.

[@Yoshixandir]

It’s laughable how they tried to give Andre a redemption arc like we are supposed to be sorry for him when he’s also the reason on how Chloe turned out. He’s a terrible parent and should not be easily forgiven

[@liaheben]

Astruc is making a point again and again and again about how bad a teenager is, and how grown adults can have a redemption but she can't have it because she's doomed at 14. He has said several times that's she not an abused child, even if we see Audrey being verbally abusive with her. But she's rich and that heals every trauma. That explains why Adrien was so quiet a few weeks after the "death" of his mother, while the bad Adrien of the parallel world was broken months later.

[@pkmntrainerdee6153]

How to make a wasted potential bully character. Step 1 - Introduce them to the audience how unlikable they are. Step 2 - Give them some development. Step 3 - Give them a redemption arc in the next season. Step 4 - Soon enough you begin to hate your own character because they are based on your own childhood bully. Step 5 - Take away their development and throw away their redemption arc. Step 6 - Add in a new character to take over their position to becoming a super hero just to make the bully character look much worse. Step 7 - Give them the Courtney Treatment and continue beating the dead horse on them. Step 8 - Congratulations! Your bully character has not changed and remained the same old bad character but with much more worse actions.

[@ItsBluBun]

Chloe’s character was wasted, she was on the right path to redemption, but the writers (and Astruc especially) hated her too much to write her like she deserved, calling her "irredeemable" when she wasn’t, they just couldn’t actually write something good for once

[@puppetpawss]

I think what's worse is that somehow Thomas thinks that this family isn't abusive because they're rich and spoil Chloe. Ah yes, let's just forget that Audrey can't even remember Chloe's name for more than 2 seconds and essentially told Chloe she has no worth other than being her daughter. Let's just ignore that her father isn't truly ever there for her, and really just throws money and material possessions at her as though that somehow makes up for being a lackluster father and husband. Let's just just ignore that if her father was truly a caring and loving father, he'd probably dump Audrey's ass considering Audrey very obviously doesn't care about him nor Chloe or Zoe. And it's not like he doesn't have the finances to do it considering he is LITERALLY THE MAYOR. Let's just forget all about that stuff in favor of making Chloe seem like an irredeemable monster.

[@daughterofchatblanc]

Her parents are neglecting, emotionally abusive and put no effort into raising either sister. This left one being too afraid to be herself and therefore pretending to be awful until she is taken in by marinette's friend group. Then the other sister also acts like a brat but she has no real support system so she can't even try to be emotionally vulnerable or nice because she has actually become the cruel persona she probably hid behind when she was younger. Also, I think Chloe wanted to get rid of Zoe simply because she was a nice person and was therefore more likable than Chloe. Basically from her perspective Zoe was a half sister version of Marinette.

[@ajtriforcegamerofhyrule8538]

Don't forget Chloé's butler gave her kindness when she needed it

[@dracuzura]

@@ajtriforcegamerofhyrule8538 it isnt the same thing as if your parents actually loved you

[@ANIMATIONLOVERBT]

@@dracuzura this does not justify Chloe.

[@dracuzura]

@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT no it doesnt and i never said it did? it explains her behavior and shows that there was a real chance at redemption.

[@ANIMATIONLOVERBT]

@@dracuzura no. No chance at redemption until she misunderstand sp her faults, like in Malediktor

[@johanroyce6324]

I hope for season 5 we get to see Zoe become the driving force that helps Chloe become better person. To me the thing that Chloe needs to become a better person is someone who can give her unconditional love. In other words I want Zoe to reiterate her line in Queen Banana "you may hate me but I love you and I always will" and be an active element in reforming Chloe. The reason that Ladybug failed to reform Chloe was because Marinette made no active attempt to befriend Chloe during season 2 and 3 during their time outside of heroics and this is why we Zoe to take up an active role in Chloe's life. Honestly if they don't go down that route it would be a huge waste of opportunity.

[@DragonGoddess18]

Maybe But a lot of people hate Zoe for one reason or another

[@langdonledwig3734]

@@DragonGoddess18 because she is a cheap Chloe clone that is worse in every single way

[@goldgirlcrochet]

@@DragonGoddess18 probably cause Zoe’s character was just rushed In S4, Both of her arcs were rushed into two episodes and her development was rushed too in my opinion, Shes only used for vesperia for the rest of S4 Tbh. i hope zoe gets more development in S5 And Chloe and her actually try to grow a bond.

[@Kakuyawolf3456]

Zoe or Chat...owo I wanna see him also having moreover an active roll in this

[@alexguzman1495]

@@DragonGoddess18 maybe because they have to know her better

[@happyblackwoman6154]

Why did they destroy her development? Season 3 when she became the finale's villain seemed kinda forced. It should have been Lila. Season 4 made Chloé's attitude worse than Season 1.

[@alexguzman1495]

Yeah at first she's starting to be mean less sassy

[@awhmilee2863]

This was because the show's director, Thomas Astruc, hates Chloe. Why? Because she reminds him of a bully from his childhood. Once he realized one of his writers made a redemption arc for Chloe he fired them and made Chloe the worst villain second only to hawkmoth.

[@alexguzman1495]

@@awhmilee2863 true

[@happyblackwoman6154]

@@awhmilee2863 I've heard this before!!!! But Thomas denied this on Twitter. Do you have abt receipts?

[@47ratsinahoodie]

@@happyblackwoman6154 I don't have receipts (cause I try to stay as far away from Twitter as possible lmao) but I believe the Chloe = childhood bully thing because I had a convo with a friend and they told me that Marinette was essentially the fan child (so a non existent child) of Astruc and his *ex* (and Marinette's parents' names are Tom and Sabine because they're literally meant to be Thomas and his ex of the same name). If Astruc would defend Marinette's behavior and writing as much as he does, to the point of calling people s3xist for wanting Adrien to have _equal_ screen time as her, I 100% believe he would put his childhood bully into the show to shit on her (which would make suddenly destroying her character make sense). In my eyes, either he's based Chloe off of a childhood bully and is more focused on making the audience hate her than writing a good story or he's just a bad writer.

[@HeroicJay]

It's my personal headcanon that Andre and Audrey's fight in Hearthunter was due to Andre discovering Zoe's existence. It's the first time we see him show any spine whatsoever toward his wife, even outright insulting her - and Andre then shows no surprise in Sole Crusher once Zoe actually does show up. Perhaps it was around the time of Hearthunter that Zoe first tried to contact the Bourgeois family? Even if his advice toward Zoe did suck - and believe me, it absolutely did - it's good on him for not blaming her for existing. Whatever the case, Chloe's story is definitely not over, and she may well get a dose of self-realization that the Bee Miraculous saga alone wasn't enough to give her - but we'll see. The fact that Sabrina starts to grow a little of her own spine in Penalteam might assist with that self-realization, and Zoe may play a role as well. Or maybe she'll just be self-absorbed forever.

[@faithcoles1166]

to be FAIR, Marinette MADE the problem with Lila in the first place. Had Marinette not try to publicly humiliate Lila using Ladybug, and had not Marinette go out of her way to expose Lila, most of those discrepancies wouldn’t have happened (at least not in that specific regard) maybe they still would have butt heads due to their crush on Adrien but Marinette made her drama bed with Lila and now she must lay in it.

[@x_izuki_x69]

finally someone said it. Lots of people are talking about how Lila is bad but nobody is saying that Marinette also made a mistake there:/

[@faithcoles1166]

@@x_izuki_x69 they always try to cut Marinette slack because she’s the “main character” but that doesn’t mean she’s immune to criticism at least in my opinion. they really need an episode to flush Lila and Marinette’s drama out

[@ANIMATIONLOVERBT]

Ah, and did Lila need to react doing worse? Keeping boasting and slandering?

[@juicebox7372]

​@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT I'm saying it probably wouldn't have happened had marinette stayed on the down low and been more mature about this

[@ANIMATIONLOVERBT]

@@juicebox7372 how ? And allow me, as Ladybug maybe she could be calmer. As Marinette she was opposing the lies Lila invented to have attention

[@gyrosik8851]

I think one of the reasons Chloe doesn't like Zoe is that her coming and being reminds her of her mother doesn't liking her

[@chloeeng6811]

Yeah definitely

[@cryingwatercolours]

For Lila, I think the reason we hate her so much is so many of us have met her in our daily lives. My Lila was my dad, accusing me of lying while lying himself. What we hate is that she makes things out to be true and when marinette ever tries to bring her up, she’s basically gaslit and told she’s being too hard on Lila. It frustrates us as viewers to see an innocent person be framed while they can’t do anything to change it. We hate her because marinette didn’t actually do anything to her to be targeted except call her out. With Chloe, it’s bitchy. With Lila it’s manipulation, deceit. She victimises herself again and again for her own personal gain and everyone believes her. With Chloe, we all know, as well as the other characters, that she’s being dramatic. Everyone rolls their eyes. Lila is manipulative but keeps up her appearance and doesn’t let it show. A lot of the ppl watching this, like myself, are teens/young adults with mental health issues and these often stem from people just like Lila, whether it’s someone from our own family or a co worker etc. who just tries to make you look bad while victimising themselves. Idk if that made sense, I haven’t finished the vid yet so

[@cryingwatercolours]

Although we know Lilas can have traumatic histories which cause these behaviours, it really doesn’t excuse it. An absent parent isn’t an excuse to keep going about the way she does. Her manipulation tactics doesn’t work on her parents clearly, since they pay her no attention, so I don’t see why she would continue doing it growing up. Well I do see why but I just think she’s just manipulative and cruel. Because half the time the exaggerations and lies are unnecessary

[@Monty2289]

Pathological lying. The reason Lila can argubly worse is because its real and everyone has experienced it. Lila lies so much that she cannot stop even 1.) She doesn't have to do it. 2.) It offers net benefit to her. Lets say her lie gives her everything she wants and she's in a relationship with Adrian. She would continue lying because she can't stop. And this line of pathology usually leads to worse behavior. Unsubs that have proclivity to murder. They already lack empathy so to craft a lie. To make it work there's no level of depravity worth prohibiting. Lila's behavior would have her go on to kill someone if it makes a lie more convincing. It doesn't mattered that she did something bad. The question is what she says believable. This shit happens to people every day. We all know someone on this road. Chloe and Bourgeois family's problems are border line Saturday morning cartoon antics while Lila's are almost Truth in television like.

[@em12309]

But really i think the reason lila hates ladybug (not Marinette, i think she takes her anger out on Marinette but it isn't justified) because ladybug humiliated her infront of Adrien but even if ladybug apologised, she couldn't forgive her.

[@cryingwatercolours]

@@em12309 she hates lady bug/ marinette bc she won’t let her go around lying and tries to bring the truth to light. Chloe I would say dislikes marinette for more of a childish reason, she’s a teenager in a shitty situation who copes by bullying. Lila, yeah LB humiliated her but also called her out for lying. Lila wants everyone around her to bend to her will, pity her and do things for her. She takes advantage of peoples kindness and vulnerability and ladybug didn’t let her do that. Yeah she might have been a bit humiliated but she put herself into that situation and then continues to lie. She did that to herself, she hates that LB/Mari sees through the facade and won’t let Lila manipulate her

[@em12309]

@@cryingwatercolours did you read my comment?

[@dspace4514]

I can't remember, but has the Zoe situation been adressed? You know, the fact that Zoe isn't Andre daughter, which means Audrey must have cheated on him?

[@HackiePuffs]

Yeah I think so

[@andrzejaki540]

Its never brought up Its only said that Chloe has a half sister and her father lives in NY. I presonally rly dont like the fact that this isnt brought up. Especially the fact that Thomas Asstruck states that Audrey isnt neglectfull mother to Chloe bcs her mum is rich. Which is a total bs like the whole story of s3.

[@tama3162]

Not at all and I doubt the writers would actually address the fact that Audrey carried Zoe for 9 months, pushed her out and literally forgot she existed at all. With how she couldn't even remember Chloe's name until Chloe started acting like her, it shouldn't be all that surprising, but it still gets to me, personally.

[@seafishlover]

well ... I kinda think it was Zoe's father who Audrey cheated on. Zoe looks older than Chloe. Audrey probably left a dude when she met a more profitable (and an easier to manipulate) one

[@andrzejaki540]

@@seafishlover Its stated in Sole Crusher and on wiki that Zoes younger 1 year if I remember.

[@hunterrousseau3770]

The Agreste family probably wouldn't be dysfunctional right now if Nathalie had just stood up to her boss and just told she feels if it meant him to rethink his whole life over and remarry and move on

[@72Worker]

Ironically enough if Marinette had not tried to build a bridge between Chloe and her mother Audrey than Chloe might not have given up on seeking Ladybugs approval. Considering that Chloe has had the most character development in the series I think she will probably find out who Ladybug really is toward the end of the season and realize just how patient with her Marinette actually is. We can not say the same for Lyla though. If Lyla finds out who Ladybug really is things will get very bad Marinette.

[@BridgetMaranje]

Agreed. Ironically, Chloe could have grown and started to realize her mom sucked if Mari hadn't intervened. She saw how Audrey was treating Chloe, and Chloe got worse afterwards. That is no way to treat your child. If I was there, I would have gone off on Audrey, and curse her out. I don't care who she is. You don't just say stuff like that to your kid.

[@72Worker]

@@BridgetMaranje There is always Lila to the rescue. I'm kind of betting Lila will do something stupid to grant Chloe self awareness and jump start the failed redemption arc. Marinette is an idiot fangirl when it comes to Audrey. Chloe could never be redeemed by someone so blind. Chloe is connected to Lila now. Lila will bring Chloe back to Paris somehow. Not sure how though or when.

[@hunterrousseau3770]

Maybe we'll learn about Lila's backstory and father in the next season or maybe when she's a fully aged adult working with Felix

[@alexguzman1495]

Her dad is tom for next season

[@hunterrousseau3770]

@@alexguzman1495 uhh I don't know we'll have to wait for next season or some other one to find out about that

[@shadowmarauder6033]

Man, this family has to be one of the worst in fiction ever. The only contenders to surpass them(not counting adult shows like Family guy & Rick and Morty) is Lusamine’s family in Pokémon Sun & Moon, William Afton/Springtrap’s family, Agent Carolina’s family in Red vs Blue, in Fnaf, and various anime families.

[@yourlocalchloesimp]

At least William cared enough to want to put his son back together.

[@shadowmarauder6033]

@OldMcBrother oh, yeah, the one’s where they keep throwing their kids down volcanoes.

[@Omnislash7]

At least with Lusamine’s family things end on a more hopeful note for the future with Lusamine finally acknowledging Lillie as having grown to be beautiful on her own and Lillie setting out to Kanto so she can help her mother

[@thegoodwitchluzura]

And the Blights in The Owl House.

[@esztervarga5431]

SIlver and his maffia father of team rocket? He literally abandoned his 12 years old son just because he lost from another 12 years old kid.. Tho seeing Silver's personality, he did not got love and care either therefore he was mean to the protagonist and his pokemon. He needed to learn how to care and love his team and others.

[@MaxMallard]

I feel like if Andre has any redeeming quality it's that as a parent at least, he's trying. He clearly doesn't know what he's doing, but boy does he try. When Audrey turned up I quickly got the impression the reason Andre spoiled Chloe rotten was that he wanted her to feel loved by at least one parent, except that because of his corruption in politics and generally awful morals, the plan backfired and she sees him only as a source of money and power over people. I swear at one point he even tried to tell Chloe no, but she threatened him with Audrey. Andre probably saw Zoe as a second chance to be a good parent. His advice was horrendous, but he at least tried to empathise with her and and came from a place of good intent. Hell, even his communication abilities, which I don't doubt he uses to manipulate people, he used to make Chloe and Audrey think a less luxurious bedroom was a better punishment for Zoe than entirely kicking her out. Although it's also entirely possible that none of this was considered and the writers just wanted to make Andre a spineless coward with no morals whatsoever. Depends on who was in charge at the time I guess.

[@47ratsinahoodie]

I agree to an extent. I feel like there was definitely a point where Andre stopped trying and I find that messed up. I can't pinpoint it exactly but I know it's apparent (yknow, the thing Audrey and Andre aren't to Chloe, bad joke sorry) in and after Sole Crusher. Andre sees Zoe as a second chance and that's good because he's helping her be better and feel loved but it's bad if he's not going to see the progress he makes with Zoe and try to be a better parent to Chloe. As you addressed, Andre tried to make Chloe feel loved and happy by the parent she did have left but that failed because he stuck to material things. He's trying a different approach with Zoe and I feel like that, at some point in the future, can and should be applied to Chloe. She's only 14, he still has time to make up for he mistakes.

[@MaxMallard]

@@47ratsinahoodie oh it would be great if he tried applying this to Chloe, but the way her character has deteriorated I doubt they're going show any attempts for Andre to properly connect with his biological daughter. Even if they did, I don't expect it to result any differently from when Zoe showed her kindness. Even if they do it probably won't last.

[@jeffreyweaver9854]

The mother had been a "style queen" before that first akumatized action. Her father would appease her every time she shrilly shout for him to fix the situation to go her way, up until Zoe arrived from the U.S., when he started to be a little less submissive.

[@happyblackwoman6154]

Maybe Chloe will reach a breaking point in season 5, open up to Zoe and completely break down? Then maybe they'll rebuild her character and show her changing? Then she'll get a different miraculous?

[@Raekoid]

Sadly this is highly unlikely. Despite how badly everyone want's Chloe to have a redemption arc (again), Thomas Astruc has in the past said that Chloe will never get one purely because he doesn't like the character (which might I add, is one of the worst excuses I've heard). All we can do is accept the decision, regardless of our own opinions :(

[@IceyWolftb]

@@Raekoid Thomas is leaving the show after season 5 so everyone has hope when Jeremy zag takes over.

[@user-st2ru6op8w]

She doesn't deserve a miraculous AT ALL

[@happyblackwoman6154]

@@user-st2ru6op8w now that I'm seeing seasons 4 and 5, I painfully have to agree. They made her toxicity too overbearing.

[@karmore17076]

I’m from the future and none of that happens

[@Allthingsasian]

Honestly I would have loved if we find out Gabe’s progression into insanity was because of his overuse of a miraculous for negative reasons and using more than one for an extended period of time. Surely that can mess up your mind one way or another. Honestly I know Gabriel’s character is very inconsistent and there’s not much they can do to explore his character present day. But hear me out, if we get a prequel show about him or even a flashback episode with him as a kid or teenager we can get into depth on why he has such control issues which could stem from a very broken childhood where he has deep and repressed trauma’s. I know Gabe is partially inspired by Gabrielle CoCo Chanel and just partially using her background as Gabe’s past is enough to explore his behaviour. FYI if you didn’t know Coco Chanel came from a very impoverished home, her mom died when she was young, she was abandoned by her father and placed in an orphanage and that’s just the basis. There was evidence she was forced to become a prostitute, heavily abused in the orphanage and became an addict during her life. So yeah giving Gabriel a backstory would be interesting because honestly as much as I hate him I would actually love a character exploration of his past. Villains always have the most interesting backstories.

[@andresomerville4896]

Do you think Marrinette views Chloe's failure as a hero as her own failure as a mentor or would she see Chloe's downfall as inevitable? Episode Zombisu suggests that Marrinette's goal was to nurture Chloe away from her worst tendencies. She chose to use Kagami instead of Chloe to fight Heart Hunter for partially selfish reasons. It wasn't strategic because the Bee miraculous paralysis effect would have made more sense against a villain who can fly. She was just trying to split up Adrien and Kagami. Shadow moth wouldn't have had an opportunity to tempt Chloe if Ladybug didn't make that mistake.

[@amymoon1295]

This is my take on it. I think she failed as both a hero more so then a mentor. Before Ladybug took Chloe’s miraculous Chloe was inspired by her. Chloe wanted to be ladybug, she saw something in ladybug that made her love her and see her as a role model. Also Ladybug was the only person who was there for her when she was at her most vulnerable state. But ladybug also wanted to change her and as you said Marinette’s goal is bring Chloe out of her Comfort zone and be a better person. But I think she regretted it because what she did was selfish as she didn’t choose Chloe but choose Kagami just so she doesn’t stay close to Adrien. I think she more so failed as a hero then a mentor but if you say mentor then I understand why.

[@alexguzman1495]

@@amymoon1295 she's a bully and a dramatic Queen Next we got a stalker lover A lying liar

[@jedyoung767]

It was not Nettie’s job to change Chloé. That job should’ve been on her teacher or her principal. Both of who practically enable her behavior. Ladybug honestly had every right to distrust Chloé considering that Chloé practically bullied her as Marinette for so many years the girl has self-esteem issues. And given the fact that Chloé almost killed her and her parents on a train was just icing on the cake. Maya Angelou said that when someone shows you who they are, believe them. The only reason why people think it was Nettie’s job to change Chloé was because of Adrien guilting her into feeling bad that her long-time bully was leaving for New York.

[@amymoon1295]

@@jedyoung767 No offense to you at all I have stated in the first sentence and the original comment was asking for their own takes on this opinion. None of the things I have stated was facts wise. Mostly all opinionated but you took it the wrong way as facts when my comment was opinionated. However the only thing I said true was that Ladybug picked Kagami over Chloe because of her selfish/jealous desires over Adrien. Don’t get me wrong Ladybug didn’t even need to be nice to Chloe or try to change her when she almost left to New York because she was her bully most of her school years I wouldn’t even blame her if she didn’t help Chloe when she was crying or at her vulnerable state. I also admit the only reason that she wanted to help Chloe was because Adrien was the only one who was sad about Chloe leaving you cannot deny that. But for most of the part I do agree just letting you know that my comment was mostly opinionated.

[@jedyoung767]

@@amymoon1295 I understand and thank you for respecting my opinion. That’s one of my gripes about the show (the other being their outfits. ESPECIALLY NINO’S!). Like, they didn’t need to have Nettie be in love with someone who was unintentionally manipulating her, because let’s be honest, Adrien can be low-key manipulative sometimes. They could’ve had her not be in love with Adrien or even Luka. I honestly think Lukanette and Adrigami would be perfect endgames. I’d have it with her being very happy to be single and hate the idea of romance.

[@ovn5058]

Wait, what if the reason why Andre spoils Chloe so much is because he doesn't want Chloe to leave him like Chloe's mom did. Chloe literally acts like her mother because she wants her mother's approval since she makes Chloe feel like she's worthless but the only acceptional thing about Chloe is Audrey herself. Maybe when Andre and Audrey before they divorced, she made him feel like the only way to get her approval is by always doing what she wants and treating her like a queen. So Andre spoils Chloe because he sees his wife in Chloe.

[@ethantay4630]

Damm…this is so accurate…but it also makes it sad for Chloe ….and honestly the entire family They can’t become better people because the plot demands they suck …and that’s just a bummer

[@Monty2289]

Eh the parents aren't terrible because of plot. They are whole-y unimportant to the story. Its Chloe who is fucked because of plot.

[@ethantay4630]

@@Monty2289 yeah, that’s more accurate Damm, I really hope Chloe dosent get a. Bad end…. Cus that would be too cruel for somone like her

[@Monty2289]

@@ethantay4630 I kind of do because that's just the non-meta story. Even if the writers took her down this path what doesn't make any sense is that that forgiveness/understanding is the way to go. Tbf the show has always been like that. Some of these people like the mayor should be in prison. But people like Gabe should not make it out of this having "learned a lesson" or where he ends up is like a 'natural' punishment.

[@ethantay4630]

@@Monty2289 ok, i dont see this a s a bad ending what i see as bad ending is if chloe is...killed off. like how the kung fu panda serues kills off its villans, that to me is a "bad end"

[@gyrosik8851]

I'm so mad at writers in this show for destroying Chloe's redemption, but apparently 15 yos can't change they ways when they find themselves good influence

[@_husky_3043]

The one thing that pisses me off the most in this family and basically this entire show is the obvious bias and favouritism with Zoe compared to Chloe, like "wOw zOe iS sOOoo nIcE aNd pErfEct etc" like Jesus Christ we get it already, even Andre actually gave good advice to Zoe and actually acted like an actual parent towards Zoe despite the fact that she's literally his stepdaughter that he barely knows and CHLOE? the dude just never acted like a true father towards Chloe but instead spoils her ,neglects her and is just there to give her whatever she wants while being huge wimp despite being the mayor of Paris😤

[@Jenlito9273]

I think this show should take family issue more serious than love issue. Adrien and Lila family seem broken too. Why not dig deeper into it?

[@thabangpatiko9869]

Is strange that the main protagonist ladybug does not have family issues and any hardships

[@thefaithalflaw]

@@thabangpatiko9869 i agree! I have a love-hate relationship with her parents, they are self-insert portray of Thomas fantasy BUT they are no different from every goofy bland mc parents like disney shows, i absolutely can stand by this, and by Marinette, this family just makes me wanna change the whole show

[@zerofudou5689]

Chloe less redeemable than Lila? Did we not watch the same season 4 finale? Lila sadistically smiles when she sees Natalie in pain on the train.

[@Zakaria3400]

Something is seriously wrong with that child.

[@screw_a_username7491]

Æ

[@dancordea9149]

Did you watch the entirety of S4 ? Chloe attempted to murder multiple people throughout the entire season, including a pregnant woman for not benching her in a soccer game ffs. Not to mention that she also admitted in Gabriel Agreste that she harms other people just cause she's evil under the truth spell of an Akuma. Even the TV tropes admit that Lila's evil deeds pale in comparison to what Chloe did this season.

[@zerofudou5689]

@@dancordea9149 Um yeah. its the trash season where Thomas Asstruck blatantly finished destroyed any development Chloe had in season 2, while also introducing the bland as dirt Chloe replacement Zoe. She didn't do anything meaningful after Queen Banana.

[@dancordea9149]

@@zerofudou5689 Chloe was still a secondary antagonist in Gabriel Agreste and then got willingly akumatized again in Penalteam. Lila's the one that didn't do anything meaningful the entire last season lol.

[@snazzytophat2236]

I haven’t heard enough people say this but Zoe and Chloe do the exact same thing. They both pretend to be horrible people so that their mother will like them. I don’t think Chloe is nearly as nasty as she pretends to be but feels like she has too. Zoe acts like a spoiled brat and eventually gets a whole friend group and with it support but what exactly does Chloe have? Just a quick ramble thanks for reading Edit: Chloe has been raised by her pretty much single dad her whole life and he can’t exactly give her a lot of attention because of his job. It’s not an excuse to act the way she does but I can really sympathize with her

[@borutogacha1785]

A thing I have to say is that I found Marinette's attitude to let Alya keep the Fox miraculous, but take the Bee one away from Chloe unfair

[@plushmakerfan8444]

Ya the bourgeois are like so spoiled family’s. Chole and her mother being jerks Mayor bourgeois is like a wimp. And Zōe is like in the middle.

[@Monty2289]

I really think Andre's worst qualities might come from being married to Audrey. There's a dark implication for Zoe's existence. That Audrey had a child with another man which is why they're half sisters. The fact that he gave Zoe any attention when she isn't his child. THAT makes me feel kind of bad for him. And one of the last instances before Mega Leech is him actually standing up to Chloe to defend Zoe.

[@BridgetMaranje]

What sucks is that Chloe could have been great had it not been for her 'parents'(and the writers). Andre is more than willing to spend time with Zoe, but with Chloe, he's like "I can't be bothered with you, take this bracelet and leave me alone." He barely even tries to reason with his..youngest?(wiki claimed Zoe was older before they changed it, I thought Chloe was the younger sister?)before giving up instantly. Andre didn't even try disciplining Chloe until Zoe came along. In the end,he even disowned Chloe and sends her off with his abusive wife. Like seriously?! If you had bothered to actually discipline your daughter and not spoil her all the time, none of this would have happened! Audrey treats both their daughters like garbage, yet it's just Chloe who gets the heat.Yeah, Chloe was a real b but where do you think she got it from? Is it just me or was Chloe better before she started spending time with their 'mom'? Like they could have given Zoe and Chloe a good relationship, but no,It's always Chloe's fault.Treat Chloe like a Hellspawn just because the creator hates her for no reason. Talk about wasted potential. Meanwhile, the flipping psychopath who abused his own son and terrorized all of Paris through Psychological and emotional manipulation got a statue and was hailed a hero?!

[@sanfloo_]

Now we’re talking about evil character… Chole deserved way better. She was on her way for a character redemption and becoming a good character but then everything is just thrown away???? And then suddenly some random sister is thrown in out of nowhere to replace the queen bee character??

[@borisspivak6998]

but the thing is she never got a redemption arc in the first place

[@wazowski6602]

It wasn't a redemption arc, she was doing it because she wanted to feel acceptional and needed, as her mother

[@liltmarshall8717]

Exactly

[@Monty2289]

That's why Zoe exists in the first place. She replace Chloe as Queen Bee because they Astruc needed Chloe and Miraculous fans to get fucked. Guy is blocking people on twitter for their input on Chloe's character. He clearly did not like that people wanted Chloe to be a good character. It's why in S4 she is evil on the level of insane troll. She went from being alpha bitch in S1 who was kind of mean but it was teen drama that was ultimately harmless. In S4 she spends actual effort to fuck with Marinette.

[@borisspivak6998]

@@wazowski6602 which doesn't excuse her wrong-doings and problematic behavior. just because someone has faced parental abuse during their childhood does not mean that their racist actions and wrong-doings are then condoned or excused in any way, shape, or form.

[@redpanda7914]

They should have kept Chloes redemption story

[@sarahkimberley9375]

It's basically abuse to Chloe that they wont redeem her or let her be a good guy. Its no wonder shes so mean. Her mother should never of had two kids, she has nothing maternal in her 😤

[@vermiciousknid2456]

I have a little hope for Andre but you're right about him being an enabler to Chloe and Audrey and being a corrupt mayor.(and not a very smart one in my opinion). Seriously what was putting dumpster's in space supposed to accomplish or putting recycled air in bottles?

[@NinjaFlibble]

I think Chloe's biggest problem is Astruc and his saying a 14 year old girl is irredeemable /eyeroll At least Gabriel does love his son--just doesn't seem great at showing it. I can't remember the entire plot of the episode, but I know there was a season 4 episode where Adrien was could-be-akumatized-level depressed but Gabriel did not akumatize him when he found out those feelings were coming from his son and there was a sort of touching scene between them at the end of the episode. I at least admire that Gabriel has a better reason to be evil than most kid-show villains

[@captainchaos5705]

I still think Audrey is worse because Andre's failings mostly come from him being spineless. At the very least he doesn't revel in making others suffer like his wife and daughter do

[@bluebird1914]

True they are terrible. But I'd also like to add how Andre clearly plays favourites. Like in the episode where Zoe is introduced, he is shown to care way more about her then Chloe. I get that she's obviously the nicer kid, but it's like he doesn't even try to be a parent to Chloe, while he does attempt to at least try and connect with Zoe. Not a very good look.

[@TheMG20089]

he is trying to be parent to chloe it just the fact that he spoiled her so much

[@bluebird1914]

@@TheMG20089 When have you ever seen him actually parent her in any way though? Hell, he hasn't even once tried to connect with her like he does with Zoe. I just get the sense when he interacted with Zoe in that episode, that he did on some level care about her. While I've never got the sense in ANY of his interactions with Chloe, that he actually cares about Chloe.

[@TheMG20089]

@@bluebird1914 i agree with you we never see him talk to chloe for real just letting her control him and that it

[@nanaway4074]

@@bluebird1914 that’s cuz Chloe isn’t easy to connect her she’s always telling him what to get her it’s hard to even talk to her and even be a parent when it comes to Chloe

[@bluebird1914]

@@nanaway4074 Not really though. I mean I'd argue that Ladybug back when Chloe kind of had a redemption arc, did on some level manage to connect with Chloe. And she was at least trying to get through to her. Meanwhile Andre never seems to even try to do that with Chloe. Man could always be like "Hey Chloe, do you want to go shopping?" Or just something, but he doesn't. He doesn't try to spend time with her and it's just sad.

[@Nephilim1717]

I find it funny that they straight up stole the plot of the Lorax movie for an episode

[@Gigi-ok9sc]

The show makes it seem like it’s Chloe’s fault and that’s what we call victim blaming. Also taking Chloe’s miraculous away because “Hawkmoth knew her identity” is bullshit, the other heroes got to keep their miraculous and Hawkmoth knows their identity.

[@Superfanboy2000]

And?

[@aaronprusinski5176]

@@Superfanboy2000 Chloe was cornered on the balcony by two miraculous users with no miraculous of her own to protect herself, her parents being used as a bargining chip and she just saw ladybug with the only other hero whose identity was known to the public. I say that she was both pissed and out of option and went with the nuclear to prove just how much of a hypocrite ladybug was in the moment.

[@unwichtigesmikroteilchen]

I don't like zoe. NOT because I don't like her character or because I think she sucks. I don't like how it seems that she was brought into the plot to show that she is the better sister und similar circumstances. I feel like she was introduced to make cloe look worse. It makes cloes development dump even more infuriating because zoe is the person cloe could have eventually been or would have been really close with. Someone who she could have related to in the future a little more in her redeption. But no. And just because of that zoes character just has a bad after thought with her in my case.

[@DemonicRemption]

6:03- 6:10 Why did Andre Bougoui become that antagonist from Illumination's adaptation of The Lorax?

[@lenastorm6280]

I agree with what you've said! But I still wish they didn't throw Chloe's redemtion arc down the toilet!

[@chloeeng6811]

Yeah now all my hope for her redemption is in the movie 🍿📽️🎥🎞️

[@arandomthingintheabyss2062]

In my opinion the ranking for who the best to who the worst is 1 the dad because at least he had good moments and didn't have another reason to do them 2 Chloe because she at least try to change at some point and 3 the mom as she uses the dad as a boytoy and is probably the main reason Chloe is who she is

[@pranjalsarkar7895]

I wonder couldn't gabe have created a senti Emelie Or a akumatised villain with the powers of healing, regeneration, thus bringing back emelie from coma , but of course we cant have good stuff in this show

[@SKStar-zf3vn]

All really good ideas, but remember one thing.... Gabriel Agreste has the intelligence of a coconut...no, an evil terrorist coconut

[@shanenanigans27]

That wouldn't be the same thing to create a Senti-Emilie, they wouldn't be the same person he loved but a just a copy.

[@leomartinez8382]

You know probably unintentionally the whole Zoe acting like her family/Mother to get approval can parallel Chloe. Only difference is Chloe is fully ready to commit to gain her mother love by being like her.

[@themasterprocrastinator4933]

That's true.

[@WarmLillie]

The Bourgeois makes us Aether look absolutely perfect

[@shadowmarauder6033]

Yeah, pretty much.

[@dangerbuffrocky]

The Aether family was just a bit disfunctional.

[@toxicq5330]

@@dangerbuffrocky A bit is an understatement with Lusamine fusing with a jelly fish alien

[@MisterMokuroh]

@@toxicq5330 And freezing several Pokémon alive.

[@dangerbuffrocky]

@@MisterMokuroh That has nothing to do with the family though. Maybe with her husband disappearing but yeah.

[@loodgack]

I'm more interested in Gabe's story and life, than in Chloé's entire family. They're just so badly written. You'd think some of them have character development, but honestly, no?.... Except the alter ego of Chloé, whose name I forgot, since her name is translated for us for some reason...

[@TravisaInc]

and goddamn we need more info about Emilee come on its been 5 years.

[@YaraZapi]

Unpopular opinion: If Gab when to greif counselling then the show wouldn't exist :)

[@chloeeng6811]

Yeah

[@fantasyfiction101]

You could argue that Andre at least tried. He spoiled Chloe who emulates her mother as much as possible which is more fault on Audrey then Andre. Then talked and tried to bond with Zoe who was raising herself and pretending to be someone she wasn’t at a boarding school.

[@kendraduli6806]

That add was so well placed!

[@zubaydahtalukdar8088]

The WHOLE Bourgeois family pretty much reminds me of: The Pataki Family (Hey Arnold) & the Fire-Nation family (ATLA): 1. Chloe is Helga, Audrey is Big Bob, Andre is Miriam (gender-swapped), and Zoe is Olga - the difference being is that Helga gets an actual, BELIEVABLE redemption arc throughout the series, unlike Chloe 😬 2. Chloe is Azula, Audrey is Ozai, Andre is Ursa (but much more corrupted) and FINALLY… Zoey is Zuko. Both Chloe and Azula are characters that you can dislike yet feel sorry for at the same time.

[@neon13602]

you know the only who I feel bad for in the Bourgeois is Andre Bourgeois because sure he was an a**hole but for me as we progress though the story he just trying to keep his family happy and together but I understand your points

[@ReportMm2HackersorTeamers]

4:44 wt abt kagami? hawk moth knows her identity but she gives her the dragon miraculous

[@ConstantinDOSSOU-vy1zo]

Marinette only gave her the Miraculous to avoid than Kagami and Adrien 's kiss

[@AshBlueFox16]

Don’t forget neglectful

[@AshBlueFox16]

For the mom

[@DigiVixen]

This is precisely why Miraculous Tales: Vinegar & Honey exists. Taking Chloe's failed redemption as steppingstone to a real redemption, utilizing Zoe's character properly, while still showing how awful Audrey is, and how spineless and crooked Andre is... showing that a hero can still make regrettable mistakes and isn't perfect, but both Mari/LB & Chloe can learn and grow.. as well as Adrien, Zoe, and all the rest... Redemption doesn't spring out of nothing in an isolation chamber. Sure, Chloe has to want it, and make steps towards it. But those steps need to be encouraged and nurtured, not shot down just because they aren't perfect.

[@edra2005]

I understand why ladybug didn't want to give the bee miraculous to Chloe again But why couldn't they let her borrow another miraculous, with the condition that she never reveals herself It's not like anyone can deduce who they actually are

[@josiahmiller1299]

Chloe would probably only want to be. Peace in her opinion it’s the best one. Maybe she’d like to take it, but I doubt it piece of power is a similar you need to touch he just did kit someone to activate the power. I can’t see that being the real reason other than the tiger I can’t see Chloe like it has any other black less. With another exception being a rooster piece it literally gives you any power you want with some exceptions, she can see it as her way of saying forwards I’m the one who’s making that I’m calling the shots. PS why didn’t she ever get her hands on the rooster

[@fai1714]

i heard that chloe’s character is based off an ex Thomas had?? i’m not sure to whether it’s actually true but it could be why he’s very adamant on making chloe change into a better person??

[@maiabxtchhh]

Holy shit thats a good theory

[@vernyulkisasszony4708]

I thought she was based on a childhood bully of his. But maybe it's just a rumor.

[@fai1714]

@@vernyulkisasszony4708 hmm i haven’t heard of that acc

[@themasterprocrastinator4933]

Thomas claimed it not to be true, and I don't know if he's lying or not, but the theory actually isn't so far-fetched considering he based some characters on people he knew in real life, and said so himself.

[@dianeenvy4194]

I think the conversation with Audrey being pregnant with Zoe was gaslighting Andre into thinking it's his fault for her own affair and considering how much Andre can be easily stepped on by his wife and own daughter oddly enough his STEP daughter doesn't try to step on him (😁) the thought is very likely.

[@dashabondarenko8039]

Of course Chloe’s family are…. bad

[@edra2005]

So Andre gets redemption despite being a corrupt and abusive mayor (firing Roger and Damocles whenever he wants to) but Chloe doesnt???

[@PrismOpal64]

Yep! Nothing says feminism and girl power like calling a teenage girl devil spawn that will never change, but redeeming a morally corrupt grown man. Thomas Astruc's writing, everybody!

[@Philigan87]

Yeah, Lila isn't more evil than Chloe, she's just infinitely more competent.

[@jedemu]

I think the Bourgeois family is a good third family in the series, and serves as a good contrast between the Dupain-Cheng and Agreste family. Altough 3 families have their issues, it's interesting to see what their different upbringing does to the children. - For the Dupain-Chengs, all members are still alive and they treat Marinette warmly, but they still have their issues between them, especialy when Ronald and Gina are involved. - For the Agrestes, with Emily missing, Gabe treating Adrien coldly and Felix and Amily being absent for most of the series, the Agreste family definitly has their issues. - For the Bourgeouses, I think you've explained it very well Altough I agree that the Bourgeois family dynamic is the worst of the series, I do believe that Chloe and Zoey are not the worst threated children in the series, Adrien is. Chloe does have a family that loves her in their own way (Andre spoils her and Audrey takes her side) and Zoey sometimes has Andre taking her side, Adrien doesn't have any of that. Adrien just has Gabe who he can't disobey, Emily who's in coma, Felix who he gets tricked by and Amily who is mostly absent. If I were to switch places with one of them, and can't pick Marinette obviously, Adrien is the only person who I wouldn't pick

[@fantasyfiction101]

What about the Couffaine family? I mean we get that development where Jagged Stone is Juleka and Lukas dad.

[@jedemu]

@@fantasyfiction101 Yeah, I guess the Couffaine family did have some development during the series. At this point in the series (post Crockoduel), I would rate them just below the Dupain-Cheng family. Luka and Juleka are treated similar warmly as Marinette by their parents, but since the family drama is caused by their parents and not their grandparents, I still think Marinette has it the best in her family, but barely. That makes me think how the dynamic in other families is, like the Césare family

[@yasminthespiritsinger7704]

What Chloe’s and Zoe’s family does to them isn’t love. It’s abuse and neglect.

[@Possessed_Gamer]

But, Chloe joined Hawkmoth because her parents where turned into Villans by him, the thing which Ladybug said will not happen if she gave up the bee Maraculous

[@kingmagikarp97]

Chloe is one of my favorite characters and I hate what the writing has done to her and her too short redemption arc. In season 6 she should get a chance at another redemption Arc since her dad apparently gets to have one even though he's one of the reasons why Chloe ended up so spoiled and snobbish

[@DarkShadow-gr1ym]

Actually, Im going to disagree with your claim of Lila. She has little to no reason to act the way she is which is why I don't like her character. We have no backstory on her

[@madrat8060]

I really hope that in S5, Chloe gets a proper redemption arc, I mean, yeah we remember the times that Chloe was a brat because that was what the writers continuously showed and rarely showed her good side, like the time she resisted Hawk Moth's akumatization BEFORE anybody else. But knowing Astruc, that will never come because.... ....Thomas is a DICK to Chloe.

[@maiabxtchhh]

I think Thomas left now... So there's some potential! :D

[@DoveIvy]

I'm from the future, we should probably not expect a redemption arc from chloe when thomas is included

[@bryanperez4061]

Especially Chloe the girl is beyond redemption since she still does the things she does for fun even after being recruited by Ladybug a few times. Can’t name a person who’s been akumatized more times than her. The mayor is also a prick as I saw an episode from season 4 as he was so bent on replacing trees

[@sarahemilywhite]

Ummm Mr. Pigeon? He's been akumatized 72 times. Hahaha 😂😂

[@aromaladyellie]

I haven't seen S4 yet so some of this is news to me. Andre originally was like, vaguely well-intentioned but a doormat who abused his power from time to time, usually because his daughter wanted him to.

[@dinosaur7775]

Audrey and Andre were married for about 20 years but how tf did she abandon Had another kid maybe she cheated on Andre which is obvious

[@GZxuanChannel-nx9vi]

I Just Wish S5 Will Have to Fix This Problem Soon, Because Not Only The Fmily is Fallen Apart, It ALSO Causing A Flame-War

[@alexguzman1495]

If Lila and Felix the mayor Chloe

[@pinapologist101]

Like I said before Chloé Bourgeois is like the female version of Melvin Sneedly,He even got the flick like Chloé and reverted to his old self,In the Netflix show at least,In the Book series his parents are pretty much Audrey and Andre Bourgeois only Melvin isn’t spoiled by either parent because they have a bit more sense then that,They’re neglectful on their son But they have reasons which is being busy,But they still seemingly don’t give a damn about him So the Bourgeois Family are the levelled up version of the Sneedly Family

[@alexguzman1495]

For Chloe's back story is pretty sad Her emotions are much saddest moments Maybe because she was wasted character Am pretty sure she probably be Queen Bee on season 5 not being a anit villan She loved Adrian eventually more than ever She's not mentally in Lila's control Her eyes are beautiful But Marinette and Chloe do you think they be friends again against their rival Lila I ship Adrian , Chloe , Marinette hopefully they have the chance being close enough That's my opinion what's your .

[@sailorathena17]

Both Lila and Chloe are evil characters that need to disappear altogether! Adrien should’ve slapped both girls in order to make them realize they’ll never have a chance with him! Marinette is the only clear choice for Adrien

[@dumby9116]

I agree that she's a better choice than these two... but after that wax scene, I think the clear choice for Adrien is therapy.

[@themasterprocrastinator4933]

How is Marinette being the best for Adrien related to the video though-

[@MG555-g5v]

0:55 i disagree with you there, lyla is terrible, sure she doesn't do as much of chloe due to lack of screen time but she is more evil than chloe for sure, she made a deal to help kill ladybug

[@sailorathena17]

Exactly!

[@whatever5401]

Facts

[@shanenanigans27]

She also got Marinette expelled, literally almost ruining her future because she's jealous of Marinette trying to get Adrien's attention. Lila is the worst because nobody questions her lies and she uses them to ruin Marinette's life.

[@EmmaBrady0]

Facts!

[@dancordea9149]

Chloe tried to make a deal with her akumatized half sister to kill her classmates. She also tried to murder her pregnant teacher and other innocent bystanders for not being benched in a soccer game.

[@MG555-g5v]

Have no fear subscribers you are safe for I am here, oh i mean smartypants is here

[@anna.owo.]

She became like that just because the creator hates her, literally hates with passion a fictional 14 year old girl. He wasn't incharge in the stories she was a good person.

[@RLocke142]

When you try to expose Lila's lies then she becomes Anti-Christ who rose up from hell to make your life miserable.

[@viviennemorgan7217]

i wish that her parents don't ignore chloe and spoil her but just love her or stands up to them like diamond tiara stood up to her mother in season 3 or season 4 of mlp.

[@justinhepfer276]

I hope that in the next season Andre gets kicked from office and the entire family loses their power but it probably won't happen

[@johanstenfelt1206]

Huh, interesting, good, fair and valid points, i could agree with this.

[@crimsonfilms1440]

I think Chloe should have restarted a successful redemption arc when Zoe entered the scene

[@KavinCatastrophe]

I Seen Worse Fictional Families.

[@jomariepieters4194]

Yeah Chloé Bourgeois

[@jomariepieters4194]

Just Chloë is not the worst her parents is the worst.

[@hunterrousseau3770]

Maybe the Bourgeois Family will become a more functional family when Chloe meets Luka and she and her family find out that he and Juleka are the children of Jagged Stone when they start visiting him on weekends to create a bond with them more and Chloe will want to get to know Luka more when they two start hanging out together and Luka could help Chloe be a better person, stand proud, and ask Audrey to be a better mother to her and Zoe and hey I could only imagine the interactions between Luka and Andre since he always wanted to be a film director just imagine the father-in-law and son-in-law interactions between those two. Especially since Astruc is now out of the writing team of Miraculous, remember Chloe's worried face at the end of Strike Back? So we could get Chloe's redemption arc back on track and hey like I said maybe he could help Chloe and her parents become a better and functional family

[@aamilakhanom]

LUKLOE SUPREMACY 😍😍

[@hunterrousseau3770]

@@aamilakhanom Thank you

[@miracledecipher3947]

I think the worst writing piece was letting Marinette fix things by making her meanness be a GOOD thing which was just further enabling such abusive behavior. It was really stupid. Instead Marinette should've had Adrien, the one person who knew the best sides of Chloe and understood her past to comfort Chloe about her mom abandoning her again and remind Chloe of how far she came to being someone she could genuinely be proud about. But naturally Jealous Crazy Marinette would NEVER consider that option.

[@jessicablueheart9772]

Why can't anyone kick chloes dad out of office? I mean he doesn't do anything as mayor

[@Rebel_Railroad_Productions]

Whereas Hawkmoth could be compared to DC's Batman's Dr. Strange, André Bourgeois, Chloe's dad, is Ladybug's version of Marvel's Kingpin.

[@traviswhitfield8045]

It sucks. You could have had Chole go down on this incredible arc of redemption, but Thomas wanted to write the show his way.

[@mystuffedrabbitliu1499]

To me I wander why Andre is such a bad father and mayor why do Paris keep on voting him for mayor? I mean in the season 4 he even told cleo that the movie the Class was making was the government money and Cleo say even the government money is all hers/ spent on her and not the government. So why would anyone in Paris would pick André as mayor of Paris? Because all the money that is meant to spend on people of Paris is all spent on cleo and people of Paris get nothing.

[@Vigriff]

I'm honestly surprised that no one in-universe has shown active disdain for his incompetence and idiocy.

[@alexguzman1495]

@@Vigriff he get fired

[@mystuffedrabbitliu1499]

@@alexguzman1495 really when?

[@alexguzman1495]

@@mystuffedrabbitliu1499 probably on season 5 it won't tell but i got more options from season 5

[@facundopollacino7956]

El programa necesita una reescritura.

[@shanenanigans27]

I don't think Andre is that bad. Andre and Zoe are the only ones I like, because they're both possibly redeemable. They are both abused by Chloe and Audrey. Andre seems to have goodness in him, but he's terrified of Audrey and Chloe and is pretty much the victim of their emotional and verbal abuse. That doesn't excuse the bad things he's done, but I do think that he is redeemable, especially with how Andre defends Zoe somewhat. Audrey is the real bad guy. If Marinette hadn't tried to make Audrey and Chloe bond over how mean they bother were, we'd likely have a redeemed Chloe by this point.

[@jodeciS]

I'm liking this video just because of that "nah I'm done"

[@Owudukan]

Astruc just hates cloé

[@fuyumeP]

2:03 minecrafts grim reaper