Chomsky on Democracy in America

[@salasvalor01]

WOOT I GOT A GRAND THEFT AUTO 5 ADVERTISEMENT ON A CHOMSKY VIDEO

[@matthewjackson9615]

The learned helplessness I feel is not because I see the government as invincible, it's because the populace at large cannot be rallied and motivated to challenge the system. The American citizenry has become inert. Personally, I believe it's due to a learned helplessness mentality that's been inculcated at an early age . The mindset is " No matter what you do it makes no difference, because you are going to get screwed anyway so why bother". The problem with learned helplessness is that the situation will keep on deteriorating for the masses. Those is power will take more and more and more with impunity. I foolishly thought at one point that the masses could be moved to action but you can't budge someone whose already been assiduously conditioned to lose and obsequiously yield to authority. I've yet to understand why Donald Trump tries so hard to distract and bamboozle the masses when he needs to pass some unpleasant legislation or whatever. Hell, he could raise income taxes all the way to 80% and masses wouldn't do a damn thing anyway other than grumble a little. No matter what he does the masses will never come against him. They're not going to arise and storm the gates of the White House. No matter how bad things get and no matter what he does, the populace will never lift a finger to do anything. He's got it made, what is he worried about ?

[@LargeAndRobustPeter]

Ha! They stormed the gates alright.. but for him, not against him ;) And they did a piss poor job at that, as was expected of such a misguided effort to... change an election outcome.

[@mitchclark1532]

Exactly! We keep lowering our expectations, lower and lower and lower, and what's the result of that? Obviously that things are going to get worse and people aren't going to care. That's why I've been EXTREMELY wary of lowering my expectations. I'm not unreasonable--sometimes it has to be done. But I'm not going to do it just because people in power are corrupt and conservative. Just because corporations and their political tools are unwilling to do the things that people want and need them to do, that doesn't mean I'm going to stop fighting. The more of us fight, the better chance we have to win. The harder we fight, the more we'll get out of it. If we give up just because a goal seems unattainable, we'll never get anything but crumbs. If we keep fighting even though the odds are against us, we have a chance of getting some meat someday. If the masses stood up and decided to fight for a democratic world, we could have that. And that has nothing to do with my expectations--those are my hopes and dreams. If you don't have a dream, if you don't have an ideal you're striving for, then what's the point of it all? Just to get a few crumbs every once in a while? So that's why if I know a dream is righteous, I'll never let it die. You can only persuade me by proving me wrong. I'll never be dejected enough to believe that a truly democratic world isn't worth fighting for. It will always be worth fighting for, no matter how successful we are. Never give up.

[@matthewjackson9615]

@@mitchclark1532 You at least give a damn. Most people don't give a hoot in hell about anything other than the gratification of their immediate interests. I have to agree with your argument about fighting for a better world. Things are not going to magically improve on their own. Many philosophers and great thinkers of the past have written humanity off and see it as a massive train wreck. Perhaps , but this condemning attitude leaves you empty handed. You've no choice but to view life as worth engaging, the alternative isn't an option.

[@elchafa337]

The next era of mankind is going to be beautiful. As soon as we the youth realize and open other's eyes to the reality that is the corruption of society today, something much more useful for human freedom and for the flourishing of imagination will spawn.

[@mitchclark1532]

Yep, but it's not just about opening our eyes. That's an important first step. But in order to achieve any level of success, we need to organize a mass movement to challenge and antagonize power. Without it, we have no chance. We'll just be a bunch of people walking around with bulgy eyes. lol

[@safyan9442]

Where's the whole interview? I've been looking for it but to no avail

[@jamesdouglass2724]

Big Think specialises in these short clips; not long form interviews

[@elchafa337]

Well, damn it... I originally just meant to post my opinion, or maybe I was just "wishful thinking", didn't expect to be scrutinized :P I just think we can change the way things work because these new generations are different from previous ones, the masses are more informed and connected. I don't have a very good argument in favor of my OP; it is just the way I feel. Cheers!

[@elchafa337]

Hmm u be trollin with me right? OK, you got me.

[@diedforurwins]

Noam is my sleep asmr

[@fLcGambit]

i'm glad you are able to validate Noam's theories lmao

[@nfpnone8248]

You can’t have competitive electoral processes in a democracy!

[@wggmn3]

@elchafa We tried that in the 60's & beyond, & others tried it before us...hope you do it but, if you even partly do so remember you are only building on what has gone before...also keep in mind once you have a family it will take priority...and unless you experience economic hardship imposed from without you will end up embracing the status quo...not to pop your aspirations, especially now...

[@elchafa337]

@zwillredeye "allegory", not "allergy". If you would mind explaining the meaning of your comment that would be awesome cause I didn't quite understand what you meant.

[@nimo7576]

we as people don;t have a voice in democracy, this democracy has no respect even for people's life. all parties are run by corporations people are totally screwed. just like a 3rd world country.

[@alorikkoln]

How can someone like Chomsky who is so smart and knows so much say things today, that are pro corporation corporate America?

[@andrew1717xx]

Fair enough. I appreciate you sharing your plesant thoughts I learned a little bit. :)

[@johnburns2510]

?-America is a Republic, Not a Democracy. Those who echo “Our Democracy” may be with those Attacking Our Republic. Say your Pledge Of Allegiance & see if democracy is in it?

[@ridicule1313]

The two are not mutually exclusive. The US is a constitutional republic, but has formal (currently flawed) democratic structures laid out. The House of Representatives was designed to be more democratic than the Senate. Representative democracy is called a type of democracy for a reason. Think of democracy as a quality rather than a single ideology that’s “two wolves and a sheep fighting over what’s for dinner”, things are democratic or they aren’t democratic on a continuum. Look up the Democracy Index. Every top nation is still a republic, but they are highly functioning democratic republics. (Switzerland is an outlier bc it has a little bit of direct democracy alongside representative govt)

[@Noitisnt-ns7mo]

Noam's Cliff Notes: "US is effed."

[@elchafa337]

What do you mean my burden of proof? since when did this become a debate? I didn't make any claims of having the truth. Just gave my opinion. Read my original comment again. Some people thumbed it up even, meaning that it was an opinion they agreed with or at least found interesting. I'm not toying with you, I in fact also believe anarchism (or at least something VERY close to it) is the type of system we should be aiming for if we want to explore the universe as well as have a healthy society

[@bobbringe7315]

At what point do you offer a viable solution anyone can criticize

[@elchafa337]

Do you then think that humanity will self destruct in the relatively near future?

[@elchafa337]

WINNING! Awesome to have a peaceful conversation on the youtubes. You sir are the personification everything that is right with this race. (Exagerating a little of course :P)

[@CobinRain]

unions are democratic entities and their policies are arrived at democratically and represent the views of the members. You cant say this for Halliburton.....

[@elchafa337]

I get the Boromir meme reference by the way :)

[@NBarker1993]

Im sure that's the same rhetoric the youth of all of history have said.

[@andrew1717xx]

No.I take the opposite perspective.Unfortunately,because of the economic disparity that exists in the world today we cannot educate everyone. The majority of any population is ignorant(I appoligize for using this word loosly).Every government is against an informed educated population they can not manipulate. If you read, listen to chompsy and are atleast moderately aware of public opinion you know that the public will NEVER make informed and educated choices, which is why anarchism is an ideal.

[@bobbringe7315]

Man is flawed there are only trade offs

[@stefdelev]

@ElGringoCastellano It's so cute that you think labor interests are anywhere near as powerful as corporate interests.

[@elchafa337]

I was just trying to find out where you and I don't agree in our opinions (they *are* nothing more and nothing less than opinions after all, right?)

[@elchafa337]

And how is your opinion different from mine? :)

[@davefischer2344]

Interesting

[@andrew1717xx]

Thanks. I'm glad you got it. The burden of proof is exactly what it sounds like. If you make a claim such as "The next era of mankind is going to be beautiful", then you are responsible for backing it up if I or anyone says they don't agree. The above quote implies a wish for the current condition of the State to end and a wish for harmony amoungst men and women. Both are unrealistic ideas. Then you say? (we will talk just about the quoted sentence for now)

[@hamzahgeek]

The future generations may achieve peace or they can "pwnz the noobz with nukez".

[@ElGringoCastellano]

It's not just corporate interests. Labor interests are also in play. Industries cooperate as a whole, corporations and unions together, to buy congress and individual congressmen like prostitutes. Special interests support bigger, more expansive and bureaucratic government with more regulations so that they can then buy off those tentacles of government to quash competition. The people will only ever get a fair say in government when those corrupt "Iron Triangles" are destroyed once and for all.

[@mitchclark1532]

My guy, unions spend a TINY FRACTION of what big corporations spend. And also, unions are WORKERS. That's what unions are. They're not separate from workers, they ARE workers. They are democratic organizations consisting of workers. For you to casually conflate workers with big corporations shows you don't really know how capitalism works.

[@ElGringoCastellano]

@@mitchclark1532 you're replying to a comment from 10 years ago. Big oof

[@MrWiibetrollin]

I just came

[@andrew1717xx]

haha. Sarcasum is the way to the future. Cheers!

[@andrew1717xx]

One cannot simply... defer my points by declaring them to be an opinion.

[@andrew1717xx]

You can tell me you are trying to find out how we differ all you want. Show me.

[@demonchild8452]

America is a Constitutional Republic not a Democracy "Most people, including most Americans, would be surprised to learn that the word “democracy” does not appear in the Declaration of Independence (1776) or the Constitution of the United States of America (1789)."

[@mitchclark1532]

So? While you're playing word games, we're trying to democratize the political and economic system. If you think democracy is bad, then you need to make that argument. No one cares what words you prefer to use. If you can't argue against democratization, then you got nothing.

[@demonchild8452]

@@mitchclark1532 "and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands." National Anthem Also found in numerous documents. No word games required. They want a Democracy, we've always been a Constitutional Republic.

[@demonchild8452]

@@mitchclark1532 and the way you're trying to argue is over umbrella terms, like vehicle or gun. Telling the cops that the attacker was a human being with a gun and driving a vehicle won't get you very far.

[@andrew1717xx]

And just so you get the reference. funnyjunk. com/funny_pictures/3336257/One+Cannot+Simply/

[@andrew1717xx]

1. You are straying from the topic at hand with an abstract question. 2. As well intensioned this question seems, it is impossible to answer withouta fuck-ton of speculating.

[@geoffreybudge3027]

A Marxist will explain democracy as he sees it 😂😂😂

[@nasrin-bird]

He is right only up to a point. But his choice ( socialism) does not only give people any choices, but limits their freedom of choices in every aspects. Also, trump was and still is the other choice beside the two major parties in America. He is an outsider and doesn’t act according to either of them. That’s why he is alone in this war and everybody is against him. Especially democrat- communist party of Biden-Sanders.

[@mitchclark1532]

You're DEAD wrong about socialism. You should read about it, not from National Review or Breitbart or anything like that but from actual socialists who espouse socialism. Almost all of them put democracy at the core of their belief systems. Especially libertarian socialists (anarchists) like Chomsky. At its core, socialism is the expansion of democracy to every aspect of society. That not only gives people more choices, but it gives people a true send of liberty and self-determination. Under capitalism, workers are coerced, politicians are bought, and what few "choices" we have are largely predetermined by people in power. Socialism would give people the ability to decide everything, from what kind of economic system and political system they want to what kinds of businesses they want to operate in their communities to how much to pay teachers and firefighters and postal workers, etc. That's what socialism is. If it takes away people's choices, then by definition it is not socialism. You're just deeply confused about what the word "socialism" means if you think it limits choices. "democrat- communist party of Biden-Sanders" And you may be suffering from dementia. Might wanna get that checked out :)

[@leeadickes7235]

I thought this guy was smart. Somebody tell him this is a Constitutional Republic. Words have meaning.

[@mitchclark1532]

First, somebody should tell YOU that a republic is actually a democratic form of government. More importantly, to the extent that we don't have democracy in America, that's a bad thing. We know what "constitutional republic" means. You can go condescend someone else. Our position that America SHOULD be a democracy, that we SHOULD be able to get some of the things that we want. Right-wingers want there to be little or no democracy because they know their ideas are unpopular. That's why you play these little word games. But you can't hide behind semantics, my friend. Maybe you got mileage out of that argument in 2014 but that's not gonna fly anymore. We think democracy is good and we want America to have more of it. We want people to have freedom and self-determination. We want people to have power over their own lives, not left up to some empty-suit corporate tools who are out of touch with average people. If you can't explain why democracy is bad, then you're barking up the wrong tree.

[@leeadickes7235]

@@mitchclark1532 until the people were allowed to vote for senators the only thing democratic was the election of your representative. That's it. In w democracy the majority can remove the minorities rights. We don't confirm judges or vote on budgets. Ect. If we did then it would be a democracy.

[@nfpnone8248]

@@mitchclark1532 A simple republic is not a democratic form of government. However, a Confederated (compound) Republic is a democratic and a republican form of government because it has elements of both! You should have said that there is no such thing as a constitutional republic. To constitute means to form or assemble, and the only thing constituted by the Constitution of the United States is congress as a legislative assembly of the States as the Union, which makes the Constitution no more, and no less, than the Blueprints and Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) to assembly and operate congress governed by legislative processes to reach a majority consensus of all the States as the Union and Established Government Authority. Government officers swear to support the Constitution of the United States, that’s the united States, in congress assembled, the Union, not the document that instructs how to assemble and operate congress!

[@andrew1717xx]

You are using common tactics used to shift your burden of proof.