Choosing Between Beliefs and Experience

[@Drshawnsmith]

"I've just asked you the most important question you've ever been asked in your life...And I mean that." - The Rupert flex I've been waiting for.

[@MrCFortune]

Word

[@Kube_Dog]

Buddha talks a lot about flexing.

[@Austination316]

real🥶

[@susanvaughan4210]

We all have a "Doubting Thomas" inside us. Bless this young man for making him visible.

[@Jensterkc]

Such courage. These young whippersnappers amaze me sometimes.

[@Kube_Dog]

@@Jensterkc Oh, such courage. Such amazing courage. So courageous. What courage. Wow. The courage.

[@MarkusMutscheller]

To me, he is not doubting. He is simply honest with himself and not afraid of disagreeing with Rupert. That's the difference between a true seeker and a mere follower.

[@MarkusMutscheller]

If you don't have courage in that business, you won't get anywhere. And much more courage will be required down the line than disagreeing with Rupert.

[@susanvaughan4210]

@@MarkusMutscheller For me, it's not about doubting a teacher. It's about doubting what I know deep inside.

[@heinzgassner1057]

What an opportunity to make the first comment: I just dwelled into this entire Titignano retreat. I come from a very ‘scientific’ background but got kicked by mind-blowing experiences since my early childhood. This made me go into so many rabbit-holes of science and spirituality. Most of them leading into abstract dead-end roads. I am deeply moved by your ability to open doors, which I tried so hard to open before. Listening to you (and especially your William Turner’s moon), these doors just open up so naturally and easily, exposing all the bliss and unity that radiates ‘beyond’ the capabilities of the limited human mind. THANK YOU !

[@artofunk]

So profound❣️❣️ speaking to this young man with such love & compassion brings me joy… 💜💛💜✌🏽👍🏽🙏🏽❣️

[@JJNow-gg9so]

Me too. 👵💙🇺🇸

[@adrianhollington6331]

So refreshing to see such a young person asking searching questions at a RS retreat. I imagine the cost explains the predominant middle age attendance. Anyway Rupert saying this question and how he chooses will affect his life. Maybe, but from my experience of searching in my 20's to now in my 60's, it isn't necessarily as black and white as that. I would describe it as a spiral. You keep finding yourself back at that place that is familiar and realise life or you have gone off track. This got me thinking of the value of structure or routine to help keep you on the path. Yes there is always danger with routine, but none can be as dangerous. Just felt it would have been a positive to give this young man somewhere to belong, some structure to then relax into and therefore let his mind be still.

[@MrRai101]

I went to his retreat a few years ago. It was very expensive and I now wish I spent that money elsewhere!

[@ChannelDefault]

I love Rupert, but the young man had a very good point that Rupert didn't allow him to complete when he said that the question about limitations is a tricky one. A limit is a property of objects in space. Once we understand that Awareness is not and can not be an object, the question of whether there is a limitation to it or not automatically becomes meaningless. I know it might be a good teaching tool to point the student to that fact.

[@sloframe4466]

it also depends on the perspective from which the explanation is seen. from the viewpoint of human thinking it is as you mentioned. but from the perspective of my inner being it is somehing that my being understands. my human thinking part cannot tell me what it is. my thinking is not capable of understanding that state of being. but it is trying to explain it nevertheless. again and again. thats basically its function. and the way this young men tried to explain something.. seemed to me that he had a different perspective for a short period of time.

[@danieleslava115]

only the brave will sit at my table . thank you Rupert .

[@kwaminaroberts514]

i watched lots of rupert‘s clips. always beautiful and i love the way he explains things. there is an aspect of perception he never touches on though. i‘ll try to explain (very briefly) what i mean. there are other ways to explore consciousness. some people have an innate kinda construct with which you can see. not imagining.. i mean seeing. this doesn‘t happen in the same space where imagination or thought is. when you experience it you know the difference. i perceive it in a visual way, outside of thinking. i guess it is somewhat remotely related to something known as ‚synesthesia‘. it kinda behaves like a tool that enables me to explore the inner mechanics of my human. its like.. kinda observing my inner thoughts & feelings and so much more, but on steroid. using this tool shifts my perspective. everything that i can think of, is not me. since i am not there where the thinking happens. i am the one watching the entire scene. we all have an inner being. we all use the process of thinking and we’re all in the space where thoughts are. my inner being doesn‘t think in language or thoughts. but it understands information in a visual way. thats where this visual construct comes into play. the inner beeing understands what we call consciousness in such a profound way, my own thoughts or thinking are not capable of.. this process is learnable. anyways long story short. it seems to me that this young guy is seeing through (the above mentioned) visual construct but he doesn‘t know yet how to deal with it. i hope that kinda helps other people with the same visual experiences 🌞🙏

[@mhill9600]

I completely understand and agree with your description, and you are right, this “holding something in suspense and making connections” is a unique kind of knowing that happens without language. We did this before we reached the age of about two years when we began to learn language. This early, let’s say “primitive kind if thinking”-phase gets forgotten or overwritten by the language based ego which then takes the helm in our lives. I happen to be an introvert and not what we call articulate. So like you, I make the kind of observations that you described. Here is a well known example how it works: Einstein arrived at his most famous theory through such a process: he visualized someone riding in an elevator standing on a scale, the scale would show zero, ie. no gravity. Surely he didn’t arrive at this scenario in sentences. And yes, young Thomas seems to grapple with exactly this process, I would encourage him, as Rupert did, to let go of thinking. Be still and observe thoughts, again and again. One can’t do both, observe and think. So keep observing.

[@sloframe4466]

@@mhill9600 oh.. thank you for your insights. very interesting. so good to know you had the same observation on thomas. keep observing too 🙏

[@Always-There]

Although occasions may be rare, it really is possible to see through the veil & experience this manifest world as it really is. To see 'Heaven on Earth' - but not in some poetic sense. But to actually see & experience the Mystery. The world appears as Being momentarily, (although outside of time), and Love / Consciousness / God or whatever your preferred name, is revealed as a totally tangible, physical substance that permeates through and around everything. With eyes wide open and fully awake, Love is seen within all things - and everything perceived or conceived is WITHIN Love. More like receiving a science lesson than a spiritual experience. For me, the feeling throughout this was intense Love and the only word big enough to describe the phenomenon was 'God'. Some people report this happening regularly and although fantastic, I’m not sure how capably they would navigate life on a human level.

[@MarkusMutscheller]

@@mhill9600 I think I get you but I didn't feel Rupert did encourage him to do that.

[@MarkusMutscheller]

I use "intuitive sensing"....it might sound self-righteous but I just "know" when things align and naturally flow or when something is off. Rupert is a wonderful teacher and a lovely man and already taught me some wonderful new things but something was off in that conversation for me. He is great but not on the same level as Nisargadatta, yet he helps me to understand Nisargadatta even better. For example, the age of the questioner is irrelevant to spiritual understanding and should not have been mentioned. A true Guru never ever humiliates the searcher. And making jokes about your own spiritual state, as he did in another clip, shows traces of ego-identity Nisargadatta simply didn't have. To his credit, Rupert, as far as I know, never claimed enlightenment or self-realization. Nisargadatta did and it shows. Nevertheless, it is wonderful to have Rupert and I am very grateful for his teachings.

[@carlosstnn]

If you notice how the woman in the front shakes her head constantly to Thomas’s curiosity you can actually also get a glimpse of the separate self thinking it is being aware of itself just as mentioned. A lot of people in that room “believes” to be right and has some kind of judgement upon Thomas’s question as if they themselves are aware of their own being at that moment.

[@MarkusMutscheller]

How can you ask consciousness a question? Doesn't any question address the mind only? Tomas is spot on when he says it is a tricky question and meaningless. Sadly, Rupert interrupts him and is not interested in his struggle but tells him to answer his question without referring to his thoughts and feelings. I don't think that is possible. We can sense and experience the limitlessness of consciousness in silence but as soon we communicate this, our mind, thoughts and feelings are engaged. Talking about limitlessness is indeed meaningless because talking happens within a limited mind that can't know what limitlessness means. It is something we can only experience beyond the mind but it can never be expressed accurately within the mind. It is not that Rupert is wrong, but he doesn't manage the student so he experiences the answer he is seeking. This is the difference between a brilliant teacher and a master. A master creates a situation that delivers the answer on a level beyond the mind. Even Rupert has still a lot to learn.

[@MrRai101]

Are there any masters out there?

[@bro5846]

Spot on, I noticed this and commented on it but doubted myself and deleted it. I suppose we should not be surprised that the mind was met and responded to on the level of mind, it is our default state, it happens to the best of us!

[@annaharris626]

Spira is asking him to put into words something that cannot be put into words. An experience is not a belief, thinking about it won’t help.

[@DD_forgetnot2laugh]

Yep. This is one of those instances when Rupert altogether misses the young man's need altogether.

[@MindVersusMisery]

How can we communicate about this if not with words? Telepathy - unfortunately - don't work in this realm. Rupert has admitted many times that language has its limits when dealing with topics such as consciousness/awareness/knowing.

[@MarkusMutscheller]

@@MindVersusMisery By creating a situation that delivers the answer beyond the mind of the questioner as Zen Masters do. There lies the difference between a brilliant teacher and a true master.

[@soalianfp9397]

"I'm" French as well, and I absolutely see what this guy means completely, that's what years of education of intellectualizing and conceptualizing everything as the accepted correct way of thinking about the world does to you. We intellectually and conceptually grow on the trails of the rational thinking way of the philosophers of the late-18th Century Enlightenment movement, the whole educational system is basically built upon the conceptual tools from that very tradition. I know it's shared with the Anglo-Saxon philosophical tradition as well (Locke, Hume, Kant,...), and I wonder how much the latter help shape the mind education of people in those parts as well. At the very least the Western mind, once set in its way of conceptualizing about the reality of the world, consecutive to the learnings of the developmental years, for many then proves to be exceptionally difficult to get malleable again for a hard reset.

[@angeloiodice9304]

This is all about being satisfied to not grasp and enter into the content of the mind. And, the mind is charming. Persistently refusing to be charmed. Or, a catastrophic happening occurs, the mind is forced to collapse, and the underlying reality becomes apparent. The former is derived by practice. The latter is derived by Grace.

[@angeloiodice9304]

@NotSoGullible I had an experience where my mind collapsed. You are correct in one sense, that the function of the mind ceases. The body remains motionless. At first there is the experience of dismay, disgust, tragic loss, followed by awe and wonderment, followed by delight. I am still here, I did not die. I guess it happened a few times. But, one was major in the Himalayas. Jesus Christ appeared. Other times were not so dramatic. The loss was milder, less fear and threat to the ego, and sometimes no threat at all, just spontaneous delight. Another time, someone sort of had me captured. I had no control. I panicked because it was hopeless. My captor suddenly broke down, their eyes opened wide, they gasped and said they saw Christ in me. I was released. For both of us, our minds were suspended. They released me, not by their own desire. In the Presence of Spirit, nothing can bind. There is only freedom. The mind ceases to function as a power over something else. You are left powerless, yet are enveloped by the only true power. Oddly enough, I do meditate a lot, and one pointedness of mind and breath is often achieved, but I fail to consciously enter or create the powerful transformational state that spontaneously bursts out of sudden loss and degradation, hopelessness of the ego, a shattering, destruction of all false confidence in the mind. Apparently, in meditation, or concentration, I am still very guarded. I am practicing, but I have not achieved the ability to break away and detach without it being ripped away from me by circumstances seemingly out of my control. I was taught meditation in my youth by a Himalayan yogi. It has become my habit. I can incorporate features of Rupert Spira’s work into it, but I cannot leave my old practice behind. Hopefully it will eventually fall away into total realization. Rupert is just a Godsend. I so appreciate him. Thank you for asking. Unfortunately, I am verbose.

[@luma2875]

Beautiful ❣

[@karaanaya]

I love that you have so much patience for Tomas. Now stop scaring him or confusing him. What kind of a lead is that? Please help in plain speak, ground down a bit lower if you can handle the heat. ❤️‍🔥

[@Jensterkc]

Can’t like enough. A delightful exchange. Thank you!

[@user-yt4qi6in9o]

Consciousness is the basis for life and the secret weapon of enlightenment and universe reality

[@MrRai101]

I don't think weaponising consciousness is the point

[@user-yt4qi6in9o]

@@MrRai101 but I'm very sure Persian prince is not the purpose

[@MrRai101]

@@user-yt4qi6in9o correct, that isn't the purpose either!

[@MrRai101]

But you know what it is right? Because that's what you learnt from Rupert

[@user-yt4qi6in9o]

@@MrRai101 Rupert speaking to true enlightenment

[@katebeatham333]

Beautiful. Thank you.💗🙏

[@Ishwayana]

I am that before it appears in consciousness that I am aware. I am before the awareness of I am.

[@axetroll]

Will I eternally be faded to awareness everything, existing forever without getting out?

[@lucamasri4617]

⁠​⁠@@axetrollthe key to getting out is to remove the concept altogether. If you have no desire to get out, you are not stuck in the first place. I think from the very beginning of everything you have existed, and you will continue to exist until the very end, or (as I’m not sure if there is an end) you will to continue to exist for eternity until you lose this desire to ‘get out’

[@oolala53]

Is that your actual experience or an expression of the teaching?

[@user-yt4qi6in9o]

We must, have knowledge from personal experience, not from old beliefs

[@tanu4647]

These young man with such a deep Question is future star monk 😎

[@alanfrancis9225]

We were as a species we were Awarness but didn’t even know this. As we developed language ( symbols, labelling etc ) we started to split up Awarness and create consciousness. So it’s a doubled edged sword. Without consciousness we wouldn’t be able to realise anything, even realising that we are not what we label. It’s like making different shapes out of sand on the beach. We are not the shapes, we are not even the sand, we are just the unseeable potential. I for example, like many, have instant access to a “ self” that has no fear, is totally trustworthy, doesn’t die, or so it says. Now is this a part of our consciousness? or our beingness? Some say it’s god? Who knows ? Who cares? Use it. Is this our animal nature, repressed at birth by many. Animals etc don’t worry about dieing. They live then die.

[@richardbukowski3300]

Consciousness is the rest you can enjoy from over thinking.

[@kimulm0619]

If we do dont know the exercise they did prior to this clip I dont know gow we are to innerstand how does consciousness ask itself "am i limitited",How to tell difference between mind and awareness we need exercise in THAT.

[@Hermetic7]

If I could give a thousand or a million thumbs up, I would!

[@Kube_Dog]

Start creating Google accounts.

[@vishalmehtaWHATSNEXT]

First time Rupert was so Harsh at the end..😊

[@tanu4647]

I trust experience the flow of life 🙏

[@bnj2669]

Consciousness knows itself? Or does the mind know that it’s conscious? Mind exists in consciousness… can we know consciousness without the mind?

[@SuperstarSridhar]

My question: Can consciousness be objectified and addressed? Can you ask consciousness - do you have limits?

[@MrRai101]

No you can't, because consciousness doesn't exist as a separate knowing part

[@DD_forgetnot2laugh]

The young man has not yet been guided sufficiently to discern the difference between the mind and conscious awareness. He needs only to be helped

[@DD_forgetnot2laugh]

... to distinguish one from the other, and then the shift in identity can proceed more smoothly

[@fur1na__1]

eventuali when you stay as i am ...life continue butifelly in here and now...mind relax , no more dream thouts of doing to change relaty or understend this i am or awarness or world....JUST QUET PEACE OF BEEING REMAIN

[@Ishwayana]

What is consciousness is experience of itself, seems to be the source, creation of itself, reflecting and mirroring, through eons of unmovable time to experience, and discover the incomprehensible vastness of who we are before the phenomenon that I am aware.

[@user-yt4qi6in9o]

Game changer

[@user-yt4qi6in9o]

Praise the lord will bless you and your energy's

[@user-yt4qi6in9o]

Amen and universe reality starting to reveal that reveal that reveal that reveal the most important thing is a very healthy and happy New year's Eve and universe reality starting to reveal the most important thing is that reveal the most important thing is that

[@malabuha]

How come that some "minds" are able to bend enough for the consciousness to reveal the truth (itself to itself) and some aren't? Consciousness's experience of itself is the universe. It experiences itself in every particle of visible and invisible matter. It grows and breathes it, it is it. What is it? Sounds like a riddle 😅

[@oolala53]

Consciousness is in charge. It is doing the revealing and the veiling.

[@malabuha]

@@oolala53 yes, but how come it's clear for some and for other is not? Is it about wiring? Mental circuits and synapses? I know these teachings felt like mental gymnastics for me in the beginning 😅 consciousness is the light and intelligence, it should be plane visible to itself but it isn't. Why?

[@oolala53]

@@malabuha it probably won’t be very satisfying to hear, but I don’t think anybody actually understands or knows the complete reason why. Even Rupert has said that whatever mind we have, that’s the mind that’s been given to us and to regard it like a butterfly or some gentle creature that we’re not trying to change but more observe. I’m very aware that at times it does not look like a beautiful butterfly or some gentle creature, but even if we were watching a ferocious animal in the wild, we can accept that ferocity is meaningful at times. We don’t always understand the meaning as well, but in Dogchen (sp?)and they say there is meaning, but we are not capable of understanding. That is actually reinforced by a modern scientist named Donald Hoffman, who was a specialist in visual perception and extended that to other hypothesis about our experience. Even in these venues, so to speak, there’s a lot of time to explain things by society or generational, trauma, or all kinds of things like that which have their place, but underneath these are all stories. Even if people have some kinds of influences that seem like they make something speed up or oppositely slow down, it’s probably just a story. A lot of years of being involved in this exploration, starting with Rupert’s teacher, Francis, Ilthe desire not to think and feel certain things continue to arrive. I’m experimenting with teachings that tell me to see if it’s possible not to resist them, not to think I should be more advanced, not thinking and feel these things, but to let them appear and move through without pushing them away or letting them become a repetitive loop. But even that is likely not in my control. Francis was known to say that we cannot always tell on the surface what’s actually happening and that there can be forces operating underneath that are unfolding to our benefit. We don’t even have to judge that they are to our benefit but more experience without having to constantly narrate and label, and come to verbal conclusions. I don’t know if this will ring any times for you, but I thought I’d at least share.

[@malabuha]

@@oolala53 wow. That was beautifully explained. Thanks

[@sloframe4466]

@@malabuhait has to do with the point of view or perspective. if you can shift away from your thoughts, then your inner being automatically takes over since it has always been there 🌞.that is a total different perspective on everything. since your inner being exists outside of thinking - thoughts cannot go there. this is the state where you are aware of everything. but this state has no language. you need other tools to understand it. your inner being understands this. with this brief explanatini try to answer the question why it seems more clear to some but not for others. the more you experience your inner being the more you understand what we call consciousness and the process behind it. hope that helps 🙏🌞

[@Alexlamb442]

Drop the mental chatter young Tomas, tune into your being brother

[@Kube_Dog]

What if his being brother is an a-hole?

[@grzegorzsochan]

Is it only me who on 5:37 sees Morpheus offering a red or blue pill to a chosen one? ;)

[@Ishwayana]

Who made the connection of self inquiry to Thoth and emerald tablets. I love the teachers of our age However dive into the Atlantean Priest Thoth. The grandmaster architect and wisdom keeper of the Dweller/Awareness.

[@johnmaynard3989]

I'm still searching for Priyatma; bothered the person and the meaning.. Tiruvannamalai

[@TheHmmka]

🌿

[@niloc1414]

In a response to a few skeptical comments by others, notice and stay in the the experience of being aware as you think "This is a thought" and notice what doesn't come and go like a thought. Also, can you explain why consciousness/awareness exists in single celled organisms but has no brain/mind?

[@niloc1414]

@NotSoGullible Why are you watching these videos? You have doubts. You are the guy in the video. Did you even try the exercise I suggested?

[@larrydunivin240]

I loved this questioning... these are the questions that I grapple with as well. But I would have had another "yes but" question to add. Why should the mind ask consciousness about its own experience? Consciousness never seems to speak. This would seem something similar to laying on a big rock, expecting the rock to hug me or something. On the other hand, I know that this journey is about surrender, and there are so many people with personal testimonies that say something DOES happen when you surrender to consciousness. But is there something verifiable in my own experience that can give me confidence of this? I don't want to be an idiot who wasted his one life waiting for a rock to teach me the secrets of the universe.

[@TissaUnderscore]

Who’s life would you waste? ;)

[@larrydunivin240]

@@TissaUnderscore I don't know. I would need some insight to answer. Right now all I have is what seems to be the case...the story pieced together by the mind. Which says I'm a separate creature who might cease to exist upon death.

[@TissaUnderscore]

@@larrydunivin240 Thats totally okay! Just keep investigating. If youre at a Rupert Spira video youre already at a good place and doing the best thing you can be doing!

[@mhill9600]

You asked “why should the mind ask consciousness about its own experience? This question may be your stumbling block… the mind cannot communicate with consciousness, consciousness does not “talk”. You have to BE consciousness, in fact you are consciousness. The greatest hurdle to “knowing” consciousness is to achieve it viscerally, no words, no mind. Think you are a newborn, you know absolutely nothing. Do you as the newborn know that you exist?

[@MrRai101]

Nobody even knows what consciousness is or even if it exists. Yet this question is very important! What a joke

[@atmannityananda-autognosia]

There is no Experience without mind. So, the question is which mind??? The conditioned and programmed mind or the pure sattvic mind???

[@mhill9600]

Experience is knowing through SENSING without words, (pure being) - mind is constructing a concept of an experience, the mind consists of language. Languages do not belong in the realm of pure being

[@mhill9600]

@NotSoGullible no

[@niloc1414]

@NotSoGullible Refer to my earlier comment to the same statement you made separately to this post

[@Ishwayana]

The path of self discovery will illuminate a path that the metamorphosis and transmutation we humans enflame within cultivates the unity consciousness that is somehow naturally a design of our species. At we the Anunnaki created our design we somehow are cognitive of self enough where as by our lens of soul plasma as the experience and discovery of I am is possible. However we are only at the beginning with this discovery and experience. Through eons of the spiral of the unmoving mirror of time we transmute consciousness through time and space. We graduated another level when we become planets and stars. And yet another level of beingness is the creation of solar systems. Or another level of being is the realm of being whom are the highest frequency of self realizing. You transcend all dimensions and yet infinitely blend within all dimensions. Yes we are aware of the seeing that sees all. And it is a life realization that we experience as an unmoving ongoing. The Dweller draws you into the inter dimensional desire beyond form. Do you desire to be in the realm of beings creating galaxies and self realizing soul awareness awakening. Countless galaxies. Countless solar systems. Infinite cosmic beings. All experiences of awareness through multiple dimensions. Knowing you are before dimensions is one thing but knowing you are always here. Wow

[@DrawingAndPaintingMeditations]

❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@bramblemat]

The he moment you ask someone a question you become their slave

[@oolala53]

Interesting belief.

[@johnb8854]

*"LIFE The Real Self" is "AWARENESS" ! Only "AWARENESS" can be "AWARE" of Anything... Do you realize that not a single part of the human anatomy is "AWARE" of anything ???*

[@axetroll]

What is the question?

[@MindVersusMisery]

"What/Who are you going to believe: What consciousness says about itself, or what the mind believes about consciousness?"

[@axetroll]

@@MindVersusMisery I don't understand how consciousness will respond if the mind that has memory, knowledge and reason

[@MindVersusMisery]

@@axetroll You don't need memory, knowledge and reason to have experience. The thing about Ruperts question is that we don't answer it with words, we just direct our consciousness on what the answer is, so that it is experienced rather than worded/explained. As humans we have gotten stuck in our minds, and we believe that our minds are the most vital and fundamental part of us, but it's not. Consciousness/awareness is.

[@axetroll]

@@MindVersusMisery oh, I'm seeing. So, just live the experience and everything else is useless, even the question who am I? Since it can only be made by using an human mind because it needs reasoning to question and memory to keep the knowing of who am I?

[@MindVersusMisery]

@@axetroll "So, just live the experience and everything else is useless" I wouldn't say that the rest is useless. But when we are inquiring about the nature of our experience, the mind simply is not the deepest most fundamental part of us. It can be used to formulate questions, but we need to know when to let go of our information processing and just experience, without being too preoccupied with thinking. The mind serves a lot of functions in everyday life, and is important for making progress and function on the material level, like innovation, planning, problem solving, education and ideas. It's just not what we should value most in our experience, and many people do, and thereby overlook the deepest and most fundamental part of themselves, which is pure consciousness. The mind is what prevents us from living fully in the present moment, which is where life takes place.

[@willieluncheonette5843]

lol....that's an easy one.

[@bro5846]

Pretty poor practice here Rupert