Chorus of Shame Leads to Disaster | Zack Bowen and Addie Hall

This video answers the question: Can I analyze the case of Zack Bowen and Addie Hall?
Support Dr. Grande on Patreon: / drgrande
Subscribe to the Bella Grande Media Podcast: / @bellagrandemedia
Dr. Grande’s book Harm Reduction:
www.amazon.com/Harm-Reduction...
Dr. Grande's book Psychology of Notorious Serial Killers: www.amazon.com/Psychology-Not...
Check out Dr. Grande’s merchandise at: teespring.com/stores/dr-grand...
References:
www.scribd.com/read/182580992...
www.historicmysteries.com/zac...

[@SunniDae333]

"He proposed to her by asking if she wanted health insurance." Ah, the American dream.

[@bnic9471]

Hey, that's how my first husband proposed to me. Not kidding.

[@flowerjpotter1629]

Living in a country with socialist healthcare, the US system seems quite ruthless. It's just the way it looks from outside. There is so much I love about the US, just not that part of it.

[@HeatherHolt]

Literally. Lol

[@arlenecargill9883]

Waahaaahaaaa

[@aileenburke4667]

You know what though, I’m with out health insurance after my divorce and if someone proposed to me and mentioned health insurance, well, let’s just say, it wouldn’t be a deal breaker. 😜

[@mw657]

I can really relate to Zach. I lost 10 years of my adult life due to schizophrenia. I'm way behind other people my age. For a long time, I felt like a total failure. Now I'm making up for the lost time and realizing that while some other people may view me as loser, it doesn't have to be the way I think of myself.

[@brandyjean7015]

Only losing 10yrs, instead of the entire 2nd half of your life... Kudos!

[@johannahulten]

Yes! That’s the spirit!❤️

[@annaohare8263]

I hope you continue do well and reach your goals

[@sarahok6589]

Proud of you

[@cilibekd]

I've been outwardly very successful and lucky in my life. I didn't realize until recently that my successes were in spite of my self-destructive behavior and insecurities, not because of them. I am only saying this to point out that I feel like a failure constantly and wonder what I was doing with periods of my life all the time and you would probably never know it. I think it is true for many of us. I hope you're okay. Your relationship with yourself is so important.

[@audralynn7454]

It's really sad when someone doesn't think they are worthwhile even before they do anything wrong. A lot of people have this sort of self sabotaging behavior and I've seen it ruin quite a few people's lives. Really sad. I wish the best for anyone who reads this.

[@Elhastezy888]

Almost ruined mine. So much abuse/neglect/abandonment in childhood. Maladapted brain patterns, hard to re-wire in adulthood. I agree w/your statement, I've known many & lost many. Figuring out your worth can be a lifelong task for some. Many blessings💓

[@monehget]

@@Elhastezy888 in the process myself ig. It is helpful to see that it is not over, yet.

[@wanderingnomad1]

Thank you for the best wishes. It happened to me, took a very long time to get my life together, lost my youth. Still have some regrets. Wish I had a better childhood and more supportive parents.

[@Elhastezy888]

@@wanderingnomad1 Same. Same. I think I was one of those that suffered Stockholm syndrome but didn't know it. Therefore I got away from the psychopath when I moved (about 20 years) but ended up back in contact later as a result of not being aware or healing the generational cycle. She had the opportunity to ruin both our lives once again, financially, emotionally & psychologically. The second time around was brutal but I learned the lessons. So I too have regrets. I do my absolute best & found forgiveness. One day at a time💕

[@wanderingnomad1]

@Elhastezy thanks, it’s amazing how our situations are similar. I too moved back in with this narcissist who provoked me. In the process , I ruined my own life and my sibling’s. I’m trying to get away and have my own life again.

[@maureeningleston1501]

Stories like this make me relieved that I'm happy with my rather boring life.

[@leslievasquez2645]

Same. So sad though

[@DeityLover]

Same lol... I start feeling guilty for embracing my introvert.. then this lol

[@camogrrl]

Hormones drove this kind of high twitch thrill seeking type behaviour. 99% of people out grow that by their 30’s But some people don’t untill menopause, oh boy! then that hormonal drive all drains away and you’ve simply got no energy to commit to that kind of drama.

[@lilalicata616]

@@CandiceGoddard really? I think I may know someone like that. In menopause over 2 years still not getting out that behavior and still having energy how can that be?

[@proanimaluver6487]

@Mel Campbell yea but those kinda people you explained usually becom a madam. 😃😃🤗

[@katarratube]

I just turned 31 and the milestones shame is definitely a heavy cloud that is hard to escape from. That ending statement really hit home.

[@LDiamondz]

Never too late! ❤

[@chrissyellem7397]

You're young do what YOU want!

[@lostandfound5145]

It is so funny how we try to measure our lives by these strange timeline goals set up by who, exactly? Life is a journey and the only goals that matter are YOUR goals. Don’t let anyone else’s expectations make you feel less. Except Jesus. Listen to Him. And I’ve never seen anything from Him that said you had to have this material thing by that age or this relationship or that accomplished etc! Just to love, learn, think and strive toward the light, the good and the truth! That’s all that matters!

[@kentbetts]

@@lostandfound5145 American capitalism is in a period of decline or reversal, sort of a victim of its own success. Incomes are falling generally, while wealth flows to the top faster every day. Rather than nurturing the average man, which has never been a feature of American society over the past 250 years, capitalism distorts and destroys the human spirit in the individual's quest for simple food and shelter. This is one story in tens of millions.

[@leea3531]

You good sis . Give the good guys a chance

[@BluetheRaccoon]

Former army 42A here- a general discharge may impact benefits, but is considered still honorable in the civilian world and generally has no impact on employment.

[@jonforhan9196]

Thank you I’m getting a general under honorable and it kinda made me sick to my stomach hearing him talk like that

[@melfreemans]

I honestly don't think most employers would even care or understand the difference anymore.

[@modernfckinman]

@@jonforhan9196 to be fair, he might have been a little uninformed, but I don't think he was passing any sort of judgment

[@jsmcarter]

I was Zack and Lana’s (pronounced law-na actually) neighbor and knew them very well. I was a part of their wedding. A lot of this is bullshit and factually incorrect. This dude is stupid and doesn’t know what he’s talking about

[@lonemaus562]

Only dishonorable discharge is bad.. but obviously you have to do something bad to get that.

[@user-cs1un6sp1wRennata]

A sad example of constantly feeling worthless. Excellent analysis Dr. Grande!

[@GiftSparks]

Agree. This was a uniquely compassionate view of the tragedy.

[@cc.99.]

And unfortunately so so many of Us feel this, without some higher sense of our purpose in the entirety of humanity it’s a tough road. Welcome to the ancient past in future time! 😜

[@user-cs1un6sp1wRennata]

@@cc.99. yes, unfortunately so many of Us

[@rideordis810]

He felt worthless and even when he made a good choice he self-sabatoged so he would fail again. Very sad case all around.

[@Lindsey0007]

When you were talking about the “milestones of shame” I felt that in my gut like you were describing me perfectly. Then I had an annoying encounter with my narcissistic mother, I realized it didn’t describe me perfectly because the “milestones” I never measured up to weren’t/aren’t my own but rather HER milestones placed upon me. I don’t even have my own milestones because growing up it was like why even have goals because no matter what I do it will never be good enough for her. It seems like the more I learn about myself the more issues I have with my mom that I thought I’d gotten over.

[@Elhastezy888]

Same. It's so difficult. I've found Dr Druvasela Ramani is a magnificent teacher in all aspects of narcissistic behavior. She is so flippin well versed & knowledgeable. Watching her videos in the last year have helped me alot💓 not just knowledge is power kinda thing but it has helped me heal

[@darondatoole7439]

Yes.

[@JFK1962]

Another great channel is Surviving Narcissism just look up Dr Les Carter on YT.

[@ironmaven1760]

i had the very same issues with my stepdad. i spent far too many years of my life feeling like shit for not being good enough. only when i cut my stepdad out of my life and get back into therapy have i really started to live and have confidence.

[@wanderingnomad1]

I hear you, my situation exactly, the shame leads you to self destructive behaviour. Now I’m trying to live life on my terms.

[@DEPARTMENTOFREDUNDANCYDEPT]

To say Dr. Grande is a prolific creator is a huge understatement. Every day is more interesting because of his fascinating video analyses.

[@outlawJosieFox]

Also a very calm voice which I appreciate

[@thetruthdatedr.4766]

I’m obsessed with him and MrBallens channel. I just discovered both of them and I switch back and forth binge watching their videos before bed. 😑

[@WiteDahlia]

Totally hard worker 👷

[@WiteDahlia]

And yes the calm voice is so welcome

[@jamesparlane9289]

As Kenny once said..."You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away and know when to run".

[@Lucy-ym8ch]

Words to live by

[@sololobo739]

Finally Dr Grande did one of these on a person I actually knew. He was haunted by a situation in Iraq where he had killed a little kid.

[@JaimeLeighArt]

I toured the apartment where this happened when I visited New Orleans in 2018. They tried to hype it up as “paranormal,” which I doubt any paranormal stuff was going on. In my opinion what happened in real life was way worse than any ghost story. Zack and Addie’s story has stuck with me ever since as a tale of two people with huge mental and addiction struggles that had a horrific ending

[@MashaRistova]

That’s so trashy that someone tried to turn this horrible tragedy into a tourist attraction. Wtf is wrong with people

[@BloodyMaryNewOrleans]

it is a full haunted msueum where this murder happened in a city wiht a lot of ghosts and a lot of murder. it is not revolving around zak and addie but today is! they are part of the 13. reg spirits. i am a helaer and try help their sprits and thier story helps a lot of people with ptsd and we help their spirits. we donated money to no profit to stop domesticc violence in th name of addie- this is Addies story too and people only focus on him, i focus o n her

[@chaoswitch1974]

You must have been on a paranormal tour. I heard this story on a true crime tour in New Orleans. I already knew it though.

[@chaoswitch1974]

​@BloodyMaryNewOrleans you were part of this story on the true crime tour. Didn't you acquire the space they lived and recreate the murder scene and open it up as a museum?

[@countrygirl9059]

I'm so glad I found you! I quit watching all other analysis experts. You are the man!

[@LiddlestLady]

oh…enjoy these days!! so many of us remember first discovering Dr. G and now we are just some long haulers but inhaling all of his content sure was fun 🤩

[@countrygirl9059]

@@LiddlestLady Actually, been following him for several months now, but you are right!! And I am. Thanks.

[@LiddlestLady]

@@countrygirl9059 oh okay, so you are there right along with the rest of us 😉

[@kathleenreardon8943]

They did this to my son while he was serving Iraq. My son took them to court and won. Then he got an honorable discharge which lead to more benefits, including $50k for education. He went on and received a BA. The reason the army gave him a bad time was due to his unwillingness to 're up' as they say. This could be the reason Zack could not get the honorable discharge he was due.

[@rpc717]

He wasn't "due" an honorable discharge. The only part of the story we know is he was deliberately failing PT tests during wartime in order to get a discharge. That's far from simply leaving when your commitment is up.

[@toniemorrison4263]

"They tried to recapture the magic they experienced during the hurricane..." Lmao😁😆Dr. Grande, I feel guilty for laughing but....😅🤣 Please don't think badly of me.😅🤣

[@bnic9471]

That is certainly plausible. My husband said his life "turned to shit" after Katrina, yet there were and still are people grifting it up down there, living from hotel to hotel paid for recovery and reconstruction services that they really don't deliver. The pair in this video probably just enjoyed the anarchy, though.

[@toniemorrison4263]

@@bnic9471 Life is too rough when the chaos and destruction of a hurricane provides respite. Maybe we need to rethink our values in America. Just saying...😅🤣😆

[@mercychoke4475]

@@toniemorrison4263 AMEN to that!!!

[@barbiesergio7663]

Great analysis. This is my brother to a T (minus the murder and suicide) it helps me understand how he views himself. He is the same age, and was discharged from the Army. Many losses of jobs, drugs, can't have a baby, to boot my father kicks him while he is down. The craziest part? In order to prove to my dad he isn't a failure he re-enlisted into the Army just this January and is about to graduate from bootcamp again as a 42 year old man. It's all very sad, however I still support his efforts.

[@Swansong321]

This is terrifying..how things can build up. I wish someone helped him before his depression and low self esteem spiralled out of control..so sad all round

[@grmpEqweer]

PTSD can be nasty too.

[@Whoamidontknow17707]

Well your analysis of Zach scared the crap out of me, because I too, have consistently (starting at about age 12), felt that my life has been one failure after another & that I’m trapped on this vicious cycle. I do have major depression. I also have a past trauma that occurred at age 11. I wonder if Zach had something happen to him in his development years, some kind of trauma? That would make a lot of sense as to his constant feeling of guilt. I feel the same way, even though I know that what happened to me wasn’t my fault. I wish that Zach (and Addie) had been able to seek help for their psychiatric needs. Clearly through the use of illegal substances, they were both trying to escape from some serious pain. Although cocaine smells great; it definitely amplifies one’s mental health issues!!

[@FlaNative3]

That’s the thing about getting help / therapy, a lot of people will avoid it because they don’t want to think or talk about their past. But the pain is there either way, so they self medicate with drugs / alcohol, which causes other problems. Therapy may take awhile to work, but soon you feel better and learn ways to cope with stuff. I realize it’s not easy, especially when depression is present. But even if you haven’t had things stacked against you in life, we all still fail at things on a regular basis. You have to decide to look at it as a learning experience, don’t do it that way again. We all make mistakes, no one is perfect - it may sound like clichés, but it’s also true. Life is hard for most of us, no matter what you see on social media!!

[@lostandfound5145]

I struggled with this for a long time and I’ve discovered that once you realize that your worth is simply in your soul existing. God loves you just for existing. Not for anything you accomplish materially. Life is about growth, development, overcoming obstacles. And learning to be human. And choosing good or evil. All that other stuff is just a distraction. You have to change the way you see failure. Did you know successful business owners usually fail 10-20 times on previous businesses before they succeed? And think about anything. Like riding a bike. How many times do you “fail” before you “succeed”? A failure is simply an opportunity for learning, growth and improvement. It does NOT define you or your worth at all! It is simply an opportunity to take in critical feedback and strive forward. Some of us fall a lot as we learn to walk. But it doesn’t make us any less deserving of love and respect. I recommend training a puppy. You’ll see all the failures your puppy has in figuring things out. But you won’t shame the puppy. You won’t dislike the puppy. So why should you shame yourself for failing? Last thing-try reading or listening to Dr Jordan Peterson’s book 12 Rules for Life. It is a life changing book ❤️

[@AIBETTSYIA75]

I have a good education, job, and friends but I think I'm a failure. Obviously not as extreme as this case but I think a lot of people believe they are failures due to what is perceived in media, social media and is advertised as life goals. Grande knocks it on the head. Especially as a male it's only aggravated.

[@gertrudewest4535]

Especially as a male? WTF is that supposed to mean?

[@SKY-wt2pp]

@@gertrudewest4535 I don't know, I'm not a biologist

[@_NeelyOHara_]

No man is a failure who has friends.

[@annekrug2989]

The expectations for females are high, both in appearance and in "having it all" - a successful career while raising phenomenal kids.

[@annegirlinger]

@@SKY-wt2pp Alright, Kitanji Brown Jackson.

[@mercychoke4475]

"... they lived over a voodoo store. I don't know if they sold voodoo, or if they rented it. It's not clear..." 👀🤣🤣🤣😂 I love your sense of humour doc. Flawless delivery, per usual. Your analyses ALWAYS make me smile. Often they make me actually laugh out loud. Such a refreshing way to look at what is often pretty dark subject matter. I applaud your unique perspective, as well as your dry, satirical style. Thank you for brightening my day, yet again! 🧠🤔🧐🤭👌👏🙏

[@lanimessmer8571]

This story gave me chills and I’m only half way through. Dr. Grande, you deliver yet again. Great reminder to stay sober and away from abusive relationships

[@LMCEK]

I saw this case on Paranormal Lockdown once. What always stayed with me when they investigated Addie's apartment is that the slumlord left the same 1960s white oven where body parts were found. You could still see and read the faintest outline of the black spray painted words Don't Look Inside (or something similar) which they had been unsuccessful in completely cleaning and removing. If it wasn't time for new appliances at that point, it never will be 😳

[@Whoamidontknow17707]

YES! That’s also how I heard about this case-and I was totally disgusted that the landlord left the actual same exact oven where Addie’s head had been stored, inside of that apartment. Wtf!

[@DottieMinerva]

They did it on purpose, people visit or rent it just because of the crime. I believe it’s used as a rental/air bnb type of thing now.

[@eadweard.]

@@Whoamidontknow17707 The ghost of the head does not haunt the oven. It's still in working order.

[@scose]

typical landlord behavior

[@kikismama]

OMG! That is completely unacceptable & disgusting to not replace that oven! Who does that? That’s taking cheap to a whole new level! Slumlord = Scumlord!

[@annal7364]

Dr. G, as a therapist, have you ever heard of the road to suicide defined as “thinking the pain” rather than feeling it? When we allow ourselves to face it and feel it (actually shed tears), we can move forward. When we avoid feeling it, we tend to develop addictions like alcohol, money, food, sex, drugs, and so on. It can eventually lead one down a path to suicide. Thanks for your analogies in your recent videos too. I always find analogies to be highly effective. Finally, I agree with your sentiments about Miley. When she comes in “like a wrecking ball”, she’s impossible to ignore! 😁

[@groominator-magneticequato7195]

It’s a profound truth to realize - how common it is that we/people think their emotions.

[@sianmilne4879]

Really hard to actually feel your emotions when you were subconsciously trained to pretend you didn't have any in childhood, exactly what I'm working on rn 😊

[@gertrudewest4535]

A feeling of worthlessness is how he started in life. He probably never had love and caring as a child - emotionally abandoned? It fuks you up for life. You have no idea.

[@kathyflorcruz552]

A lot of us do know how that feels actually. How you react & conduct your life after that though is what matters. It either controls your future or you refuse to let it do that & break the cycle so you don't do the same to anyone else.

[@annabelledee6554]

THANK YOU FOR COVERING THIS. This story deserves to be treated with respect and gentleness, instead of the “paranormal” BS that people incorrectly spread. I think few people cover the mental distress and trauma people who went thru Hurricane Katrina suffered. Some of the things people saw and did to survive were awful. I wish there was more support available for those going thru PTSD from natural disasters

[@AntoDesormeaux]

A profound and compassionate view of this tragedy... A lot of us can relate on some level. The narrative you tell yourself about your life can become a self-fulfilling prophecy, not always in a good way. When the people who mean the world to you tell you that you're destined for failure since you're a child, you desperately need someone to tell you that they're wrong or else you'll end up proving them right. and they're wrong, by the way...

[@pierre6625]

Hello Dr. Grande. once again a very interesting case, very sad to see a man self destroy himself due to a lack of self-esteem. You are extremely good at explaining to us what a person "might" be thinking before committing a terrible act. Thank you for the videos. Best Regards. 👍❤

[@tmajcan94]

It's funny, I was just watching one of your older videos (Jessica Heeringa case) when I got notified of this video. Dr. Grande is the gift that keeps on giving! 🙂

[@rezaadara7866]

I also feel being a failure when I didn't reach certain milestone in my life. The shame feels so bad to the point I wanna die.

[@stacykeller8461]

This case has always fascinated me. If only Zach had received the mental healthcare he so desperately needed. RIP Zach and Addie.

[@janeallgood9833]

Yeah despite seeming to recognize the value and prohibitive necessity of things like health insurance, GED and military service - also the connection between them and how he cut ties- he didn't seem to be taking advantage of the access. I know the military is famous for chewing you up and spitting you out once your worth is through, then refusing to pick up the phone once the damage is assessed and the bill comes due. You need the energy to fight them alongside your illness when already in a weak state, it can be almost impossible. Add that men especially don't seek help for mental health reasons, he must have viewed his benefits as something for his family to have. But no matter how much shame he felt, if he stayed in the military long enough to get a pension and 0% home loan just to name a FEW bennys, by the time he was 40 he'd be way better off than 90% of men his age... if he survived that long.

[@animula6908]

I think the fact he was deliberately crookedly sabotaging his sit ups was more important to the military than the sit ups themselves, and people who do crap like that instead of being honest deserve a general discharge.

[@oldhick9047]

Thanks doc, your stories reaffirm that I am not so bad after all

[@dmrenterprizes4101]

Sad that people judge themselves so unfairly and it ends up leading to their destruction. But when people have this mindset it is so hard to change their minds. And then he became a murderer. Yet I can't help pitying him. SMH

[@NovemberRain007]

Excellent analysis, Dr. G! Such a sad case, the situations involving military personnel always strike me harder 🥺 because (from personal experience) it is my opinion that the VA (and the Us Dept. Of Defense as a whole) often fail veterans ... Your milestone analogy is so poignant and eye opening (I couldn't help but think about my little boy and hope he never feels like he's not measuring up😔) .... Side note: Have you heard "Party In The USA" by Miss. Miley? That song slaps hard! I listen to it everyday on my morning run, it's #7 on my playlist🥳, I'll forever think of you everyday that I listen to it 🥰... I Love your channel and your brain and you, so, so, much, Dr. G... Thank you for sharing your knowledge 🤗😚♥️

[@aliciahowell9617]

ABC did a true crime show about 8 yrs ago that did an episode on this case. It was well produced with higher production value than most crime shows. It was a very haunting episode.

[@ava198]

Thank you Dr Grande. If I have a panic attack I just have to listen to your calm voice to calm down. Spring colors look nice on you 👍 keep up the great videos

[@erikbentley9005]

Wow. What an incredibly and profoundly sad story for all involved.

[@pennsydude9723]

I felt the same when I listened to this. It's pretty deep that whole milestone thing.

[@marthacarson7561]

General Discharges are not given simply for slacking off on sit-ups. I would speculate he slacked off in other areas, too.

[@dariamancini963]

Dear future grandmas and people in general…when someone tells you that they are expecting another child it is never loving to question the wisdom of procreating. Your job is to be supportive or at least not add to their insecurity

[@kashmm]

You, dear reader, were born innocent and full of dignity. You are worth love, and you are capable of good. Don't ever let shame or doubt get the best of you, be your best self.

[@Shania69]

this is such a thoughtful and sweet thing to say and i can only imagine your words mirror who you are. thank you

[@kashmm]

@@Shania69 absolutely 100%

[@margaretlumley1648]

This is such a sensitive and profound analysis. Thank you, Dr Grande!

[@lnc-to4ku]

Incredible video, Dr. Grande! I've never heard of this case before so I was shocked by the developments! Everything about your content is always both brilliant and funny! ♡♡

[@johnc7385]

This is the only channel where, I believe, I've watched every video. Pandemic silver lining.

[@bthomson]

Some twice or three times!

[@LDiamondz]

Same.

[@moonstruck562]

@@bthomson same here

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

Exceedingly insightful analysis, I have never looked at feelings of hopelessness through this angle. It makes so much sense. Thank you for sharing your thoughts Dr. Grande, this review was truly excellent.❤️

[@bthomson]

It seems as though people who are destined to fail find each other and make things even worse! Alcohol and drugs pile onto bad parents and lack of education. The downward spiral just accelerates!

[@LDiamondz]

Yikes! The head in the oven was super creepy. I knew the Jersey joke was coming this time! lol. I'm convinced he's talking to us, now! 🤣 I get a kick out of those jokes! 😉🤣🤣

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

@@LDiamondz I know right?! 😂🤣I was going to write something about that and ended up forgetting. But he is right, the driving in NJ is fairly aggressive. At least in the Northern part, where I live.😕

[@LDiamondz]

@@rejaneoliveira5019 Yes, he is right. The driving is horrible, state wide, I think. Although, I've been driving many years now, and never got a ticket. Not even a parking ticket. So, not all bad drivers. He really cracks me up! Uh oh.. Watch, now, I'll get a ticket today. 😬 If I DO, I'm blaming Todd for it! 🤣❤

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

@@LDiamondz Haha 😂

[@EasternDreamer615]

I read “Addie Hall” as Adderall.

[@paintitblack9712]

Really hoping you make a video on all these kids coming out on tik tok saying they have autism/tourettes and or DID without being professionally diagnosed. Curious on your take!

[@DottieMinerva]

I keep getting ads on there disguised as tik toks where a young person is giving examples of things that fit most people and saying if you do these things you probably have adhd.

[@paiged6839]

Somehow I feel that Zach was discharged from the military for more than just sit ups. Anybody who can murder and cut a person up and stick body parts around the apartment would show themselves to be highly unstable to soldiers who live with and around them on a daily basis. The guy was seriously deranged and no doubt was obviously troubled.

[@sunnycatc6491]

Agreed. Feeling inadequate for missing a few societal expectations is WAY different from his premeditated, grotesque crime.

[@Ann-sj4pt]

I thought he saw people being unalived

[@rodrickweir]

I'm surprised that PTSD didn't play a larger part in the story of Zack Bowen. This was a sad situation all around. Well done Dr. Grande!

[@livecool.diecool]

PTSD was a bigger part of his story than stated here. His troubles started after a close friend was killed by a road side bomb. Another issue was when the Army refused to let him return to Germany to care for his wife when she was ill. Later he suffered flashbacks when the military took control of NO after Katrina. I had met Zack, Addie too, a few months before the murder. There is a very good book about them titled Shake the Devil Off if you are interested

[@chimom7112]

There is sooo much more to this story as there is to most. Zach was promoted to platoon leader and did an incredible job. His comrads said he was an amazing leader. He saw ugliness and witnessed looosing those close to him. He came back with ptsd. That played a major part in what was to come.

[@rtwice93555]

I like the example Dr Grande used toward the end with a line marked with milestones. That is a great example so long as a person write their goals with a pemanent marker; so to speak. At 57 years old, I would say I accomplished about half my milestones on time. Some, I never accomplished at all; its not looking too hopeful that I ever will. From what Dr Grande described, it seems Zach's life was not so far out of line that he couldn't adjust his milestones. Of course, once he killed his girlfriend, all hope was lost. I think one of the biggest problems is guys benchmark their accomplished milestones against others. Than can lead to unnecessary disappointment

[@Blazerelf]

when Dr Grande said Zack started dating a man I was like "damn, wasn't expecting that" lol ; not that there is anything wrong with it but it was so random on the story line until then

[@grmpEqweer]

I was surprised. ... Maybe he should have stuck with the guy, Addie was trouble. (Not that he should have k1lled her, but she was bad news)

[@Thurston86]

Seemed to come out of nowhere, didn’t it? Lol.

[@bthomson]

Maybe by then willing to try anything ( also not meaning any disrespect).

[@Stichting_NoFap]

@neul song if he dated a man it doesn't necessarily mean he was gay, could be bi as well.

[@katiobrien7854]

The milestone continuum is very thought provoking. I really enjoy your videos. I listen, therefore I think.

[@bthomson]

Yes! Dr. Grande is beginning to add very illustrative examples that help define the nature or the mental situation he is describing. Very helpful.

[@betterbee1304]

So much hate for my home state of New Jersey 🤣 it is completely warranted though. Thanks for the video, Dr. Grande, such a sad case. Wish he had gotten help before it was too late.

[@White-Michael935]

I would love to see New Jersey.

[@betterbee1304]

@@White-Michael935 go to long beach island and see Barnegat lighthouse, it's beautiful ❤️

[@paulabrown6840]

Societies expectations are ridiculous. Don’t judge yourself by what society seems to dictate what is EXPECTED to make you acceptable! Set your own individual goals. College isn’t for everyone.. marriage isn’t for everyone..children and white picket fences may not jive with who you are. Trust your own path ideals and be your own standard of success. Pressures of societal norms can be debilitating and you should NEVER judge your worth by these artificial standards. Love and trust who YOU are. 🌸

[@julezmmm]

I’ve heard this story but never from this perspective, it’s so sad how he thought he was a failure no matter what he did. Thank you for Zack’s background doc, it definitely adds to what little I knew about the story! As for the milestones, this is a conversation my husband and I have so often. I’m proud of where we are compared to where we started, he never thinks he’s doing enough.

[@jackiesandman9981]

So informative! What a story and an analysis. Milestones of shame with behavior that triggers the shame. What an insidious cycle. Mesmerizing.

[@dolorestroeller4734]

It's sad to think that about 50% of the people that may meet all the "milestones" will get divorced and have to watch it all slowly come apart.. It's amazing how history hasn't enlightened us a bit more about the reality behind the illusions. "The danger of illusions is that they have no flaws "

[@veronikalynn5084]

I’m a woman, just turned 30 last February, but everything you said in the second half has resonated with me for a long time. It’s been three years now of feeling like I’m back inside the maelstrom I was in at ages 13 to 21. It feels like I’ve only really lived for six years. Everything else has been a waste. At first I had circumstances, people and surroundings to blame. Now it’s clearer than ever that I took charge somewhere along the way. But instead of rising above or doing something meaningful with my life, like 13 year old me dreamed of, I wish I could give up quickly and painlessly. Sorry for the novel. KZbin is my diary. I’m a millennial, that’s my only excuse

[@renewashington791]

😊 Don’t be sorry for expressing yourself. I’m not a millennial (just turned age 63 in May), and I too Also use YT as my Diary. Well actually I only just started doing so since February bcuz I find myself Between Jobs again, I’m Depressed and Bored. Oddly enuf tho, I find YT to be very therapeutic, as I’ll occasionally run across a comment that truly Resonates with me. Take care and I’m praying Blessing Upon Blessings to you and yours 🥰🤗💐💗

[@DottieMinerva]

This case and their relationship often gets romanticized. Nothing romantic about it, just dysfunctional and sad.

[@ETtheOG]

Man poor Zack, the dude sounded like he deserved a break somewhere in his life but it just wasn't happening. It doesn't excuse him that he took the easy way out and killed someone who sounds like they were clearly mentally ill but I'm sure his story can resonate with a lot of people, including myself.

[@wanderingnomad1]

Same here, nobody deserves that. I can relate.

[@KahlessTheUnforgettable]

@little drane Have you considered starting a KZbin channel on how to be a slum lord?

[@loisherzog8803]

For me, the analysis explains everything but the murder.

[@bthomson]

Murder is the action too far! Taking someone's life is the true sin.

[@Jath2112]

The last part of this video was incredibly poignant. I really stopped and did some thinking. Thanks for putting this together Dr. G.

[@MatthewBishopCounsellor]

Zach is all of us. The milestones differ, higher and lower. But we condemn ourselves, and we condemn each other, we murder and make a tragedy out of a brief gift, because we can't truly see ourselves and each other. I know that might sound trite, and the cynical (defended) troll might mock me, but it's so true isn't it?

[@annalisegiovanni7032]

Hey Dr. Grande🥰 thank you for the new video!! I haven't yet watched it. I'm going to do so right now. I just wanted to make sure that you're very well aware how much all of your extreme hard work is very much so appreciated & valued❣️

[@jjberg83]

I wonder if this sort of thing isn't more common. For men, status is EVERYTHING. You miss a couple milestones and you can find yourself on the outskirts of society really quick unless you have the looks and charm to get around it. The shame compounds, the days fly by, and it gets harder and harder to catch up all while society keeps moving the goal posts on what makes a "real" man. He should have just gotten in good shape and became a con artist. Or lived on credit and moved to Thailand when the bank came knocking. But for that, he'd need to put down the drugs and focus.

[@jhanimalluvr5932]

This great but I would add that the PTSD was definitely part of the psychological breakdown here. If you were in New Orleans during and after the storm, you were traumatised in a BIG way. Between the continuous stories (real and imagined) of the dead bodies, snake/fire ant infested waters, mold/mildew smell and toxicity, the symbols on the buildings everywhere (indicators of the number of dead in house), the eerie quietness of the city (like an apocalyptic landscape), the minimal resources and services provided or available, the grief over the loss of people, pets, and property, the absence of a regular routine, job losses, and many other issues that were ongoing like crime and poverty, there was no way you could NOT be affected. My mom who was normally a joyful person was like a half smiling zombie after the storm. My (strong and sensible) sister who, as a social worker, counselled first responders was having a nervous breakdown. You could even see it in the faces of the local news reporters for awhile. I’m sure that the issues these two already had were really exacerbated. I am deeply moved but not surprised by the story. Anyone under those circumstances would be acting out (in a lesser degree) in some way.

[@bthomson]

But this was the only time these two miscreants felt good!

[@jhanimalluvr5932]

@@bthomson it was the time that they were part of something others who stayed for the storm went through and they had a trauma bond but the conditions in Nola worsened their own psychological problems. And drugs and alcohol made it deteriorate further. I’m surprised (but glad! there weren’t more episodes like this.

[@shanehiggins4983]

Oh I so knew exactly what you were going to say about dying in NJ, but when you said it, it was still hilarious. True dedication to the deadpan style and I appreciate it Dr G 🙏

[@LDiamondz]

Same here. I was waiting for it. He cracks me up! 🤣

[@skreemqueen756]

Excellent analysis Dr Grande. Thank you for your consistency and awesome content. This is such a sad case. I had read about it and watched a show about it too but I always am interested in hearing your take on every case. You bring a fresh perspective and spark new thoughts about cases you cover even if I’ve seen them covered several times before.

[@Sophie101Rose]

Dr Grande, thankyou for your consistent , captivating and fantastically presented videos. You explain in a way that I'm sure many if not all of us are able to understand perfectly. Thankyou again for your dedication and commitment to what you do so well, I get so excited every time I am notified of your new videos. Best regards, a friend from New Zealand

[@KraftyKreator]

I am struck upon rewatching this, how you made a topic which is rather grim funny and interesting as well as thought provoking. While you normally have a high caliber of videos, this one was especially good. Thanks.

[@nightwood3738]

Dr. Grande good PM. Popping in to say thanks for your dedication. Always enjoy your low key dynamic wit.

[@kerrye3901]

That was an awesome one! Thank you, as always. ☺ I believe that our thoughts have everything to do with what we become.

[@cc.99.]

Also great analysis! I find behavioral / personal psychology thoroughly interesting, in ways to apply patterns as means to finding information fascinates me. Your videos help in these minds that love analysis! Lol ;)

[@ianjohn8697]

1

[@BucketHeadianHagg]

Gasp! It's time for Dr Grande's pink shirts and such! (and really good content, like this upload) Yayy! Happy spring, Grande channel family!

[@user-uu2cj9ct3j]

The milestones of shame reminds me of my ex’s way of thinking. They frequently made comments about how they “should have accomplished ‘x’ by now”. It made it very difficult for them to find happiness in life, because they were always discontent.

[@tenzinkunsang7736]

Always waiting for Dr.Grande’s video! You are very well informed.Thank you for sharing your knowledge and analysis . Lol watching from Bakersfield 🙏🏻

[@chocolatethunder192]

Excellent analysis! I love how you discussed the personality factors that contributed to this tragic situation.

[@tdali8347]

Looking at the timeline of my own life, so much like Zack's: California, Army/Germany, Hurricane Katrina...It's really amazing, isn't it, that more of us aren't raving lunatics. Nice job, Dr. Grande.

[@iyalove9383]

Unbelievably fascinating story! I have to remind myself to hit the like button 🙃 so... ya'll hit the like button!!👍

[@bthomson]

Always do.✔

[@ZYX84]

Hi Dr. Grande. Happy to be home, excellent family get together tonight! Everybody loved my Oreo crumb Philadelphia cheesecake. I should’ve saved a slice for myself! But instead I’ll just sit here and watch you because you’re sweet and you make me happy!

[@candyvigil550]

So much for the magic during a hurricane. Thanks for the breakdown of their personalities.

[@slideoff666]

I love your explanation, Dr, Grande, about the milestones singing their inescapable, deafening chorus of shame. I just love your brain.

[@thewatchcommander7253]

This story was not particularly gripping but the analysis about the man w/ the milestones was absolute humanity. It really spoke to me and I appreciated your thorough explanation of what it means to stake your value in these preconceived notions but then behaving in ways incongruent to achieving them. Thx DG

[@lilinsulatorchick9665]

I listened to the last few lines 3x in a row. Hit me alittle hard. Lol I'm pretty sure I do that. 😅 And as always Dr. Grande, your subtle quips make me smile ear to ear while digesting a profound topic lol

[@828enigma6]

I hate to see anyone crash and burn, but when you have two personalities that who are prone to not do well, it's very likely that together, they'll do even worse. Probably would have been immensely helpful if both had avoided alcohol and street drugs.

[@bthomson]

Agree.🎯

[@janinemccartha1811]

Hi Dr. Grande. There was no excuse for the behavior of these people. The kids are the ones who'll have the problems of dealing with this for the rest of their lives. Changing is something they never try to accomplish, that, in my opinion is the main problem. Hopefully, they will be fine. Good analysis also, peace to all, love, Janine Smiley😀🙂😎🤩😍

[@abdisamamedia]

Great analysis as always Dr G

[@hannahkeller2427]

Dr. Grande, can you please do an analysis on the documentary Bad Vegan? Would love your take on it

[@annal7364]

Second that. I cannot believe a woman of her age and intelligence could be swayed so easily into fantasy just like a little child can. That is fascinating to me. I am very interested in hearing Dr. G’s speculation about what could be happening in a situation like that.

[@kiaw9159]

Wow, that was AMAZING Dr. Grande!! You definitely left something to think about!!❤

[@talkbrian1522]

🎉 So brilliant how are you articulated the symphony of guilt and disappointment in one's life....

[@kartyl1wielki]

Thank you for so thorough video. Maybe I looked in wrong places but most articles or other videos were almost jumping straight to the crime, focusing on how gruesome it was and so on. You are the first person to actually talk about Zack and what he was going through.

[@Adrian-zd4cs]

Oh. This. Case. If any of y'all would like to go down the Zack and Addie rabbit hole, it's wild. Even after they died.

[@dustin628]

A possible majority of soldiers got PTSD over there. It really makes you wonder just what the hell happened over there. What did these poor boys and men see to scar them so deeply the rest of their lives? It must have been so much worse than we know now

[@kaarlimakela3413]

Best description I've ever heard regarding this. It makes me think of family annihilators. But in its typical milder form, it's about comparing how one rates regarding superficial things, and dwelling under the glare of harsh self judgment equating to a deflation of self worth.

[@elle7268]

The insight of this analysis is powerful! Thank you for this solid case.💫Terrific analogy / effective illustration 12:37-16:22

[@SadieCleary]

That milestone graph is amazing! Thank you:)

[@easttowest5984]

Thanks for covering this case. I have always wondered what was going on with these two to end so badly.

[@mamaduck9370]

Empathetic and pragmatic commentary on yet another tragic case of a lost soul who served their country expecting the American dream to become reality then caused exponential damage when it all went wrong.

[@marjieestivill]

Loved the analogy of his daily pain was like a deafening chorus of shames singing in unison. The reference to a painful Miley Cyrus ear-worm helps me relate to people who have emotional ruts that they feel are too deep to escape.

[@onesuccessfulbitch1584]

That was enlightening. I dated a very dangerous man who lived his life by his continuum of missed milestones.

[@Nylak-Otter]

"Do you want health insurance?" would absolutely be a proposal that would have blown me down, for sure. 😂 My job does not provide it, and mine costs me thousands each month due to preexisting conditions and a dangerous lifestyle. My fiancée can't share her health insurance, apparently. Which is why we're still engaged (joking!). ...We're still engaged because I can't afford a wedding since all of my income goes into my health insurance.